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I'd rather see Carter and save Davis. But it's better than Jacobs.

about 2 years ago Jose_reyes_tiny EMSfan9 43 comments 0 recs  | 

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So by bringing him up now, when does Davis become arb eligible?

There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ

The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?

by Syler on Apr 18, 2010 7:40 PM EDT reply actions  

I believe, assuming he never get sent down

He’ll be eligible as a Super-Two in 2013, when he’ll have two years and 176 days of service time. He will then go to arbitration four times and be eligible for Free Agency in 2017.

"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet

What a fool I was to defy him"

-HST

by Mark Himmelstein on Apr 18, 2010 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's not so bad

He’ll be about 30 if and when he hits FA then

by deadspy3 on Apr 18, 2010 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yup, they've already waited long enough to delay his service time, just not Super-2

If they called him up a week ago, he would have hit arbitration as a typical arb-eligible player in 2013 with just over three years of service time and hit FA in 2016.

Its actually Carter who’s at risk of getting a full year of service time this year, he’s on the 40-man and was optioned to the minors, so he needs to be in the minors for 20+ days or he’s guaranteed a full year no matter what. He probably already has 60 or so days of service time from his time with the Sox too, so they’d have to hold him back for a while to delay his clock. Plus he’s not a stud prospect so it doesn’t matter nearly as much.

"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet

What a fool I was to defy him"

-HST

by Mark Himmelstein on Apr 18, 2010 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nope

Super-Twodom has nothing to do with production, its just about service time. I forget the exact number off the top of my head, but its something like of all the players with 2+ years service time, you take the third of the players who have the most service time of that group and you have your Super-Twos. So since Ike is going to have nearly three full years of service time going into 2013 (just under, 2 years and 170-something days), he’s assured Super-Two unless he gets sent down.

"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet

What a fool I was to defy him"

-HST

by Mark Himmelstein on Apr 19, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's just so strange

Ricco was so specific in his reasoning for keeping Davis down. It wasn’t just generic boilerplate stuff to feed the media. So it seems to me they’re letting a fluky 20-inning game dictate how they bring along one of their top prospects. Makes sense.

by Bieser's Balk on Apr 18, 2010 8:24 PM EDT reply actions  

Of course they are going to make excuses

They don’t want the BPA suing them. When the Twins were clearly holding Liriano in AAA for the sole purpose of having him for an additional year they also had to come up with specific reasons. It would be suicide for any FO to admit that they are holding a player back solely for financial purposes.

by M.C.Teufel on Apr 18, 2010 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah but I'd say there's a difference between Liriano and Davis

Davis still has legit concerns about his ability to hit left handed pitching and breaking balls. There are legitimate arguments for him to not even be in AAA yet.

And to top off their greatest season yet the new jersey nets scored 86 points...in double overtime. yes a professional basketball team only mustered 86 points in 58 minutes of basketball.

by Gina on Apr 18, 2010 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

This

"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet

What a fool I was to defy him"

-HST

by Mark Himmelstein on Apr 18, 2010 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Obviously

But they seemed pretty adamant about keeping him down. And it appears if they hadn’t played 20 innings last night, he wouldn’t be coming up. That’s my only point.

by Bieser's Balk on Apr 18, 2010 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, they did the Stoner move for the bullpen

but it seems apparent they must have been thinking the Jacobs experiment was a bust.

by SuperT on Apr 18, 2010 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Right, I got that

It just seems like the game yesterday kick-started a chain reaction. Like, if they just played 9 yesterday, do they DFA Jacobs and bring up Ike today? Maybe, but I never got the sense Jacobs was on his way out.

And if they were so concerned about not starting Ike’s clock early, why not apply that same logic to Mejia? I mean, 1B was a bigger weakness than the pen coming into the season.

by Bieser's Balk on Apr 18, 2010 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I think they have stuff going on that reporters don't get hold of, though

So it doesn’t mean much that we hadn’t heard Jacobs wasn’t impressing. All they had to do because of yesterday was move one guy temporarily; they could have sent Valdes. I think they must have been close to moving Jacobs and so went ahead with it when the spot was needed. They were giving him until they could bring up Ike, and that happened to coincide with the bullpen need, or a few days difference.

I cannot explain Mejia.

by SuperT on Apr 19, 2010 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

yeah

he is

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Apr 19, 2010 5:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Valdes doesn't have options does he?

plus apparently if he wasnt on the roster he was supposed to be sent back to Mexico, it’s possible if they dfa’d him again they’d actually have to send him back.

And to top off their greatest season yet the new jersey nets scored 86 points...in double overtime. yes a professional basketball team only mustered 86 points in 58 minutes of basketball.

by Gina on Apr 19, 2010 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think so

I think they were trying to bring up an arm will keeping Jacobs and cats in the organization, then Jacobs got all huffy and refused assignment.

And to top off their greatest season yet the new jersey nets scored 86 points...in double overtime. yes a professional basketball team only mustered 86 points in 58 minutes of basketball.

by Gina on Apr 19, 2010 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, it seems possible that Jacobs refused

But from what Mark says, this week is the week that matters re Ike’s clock, so I think as they were monitoring his play and watching Jacobs, they were thinking to make the move, 20 inning game or no.

by SuperT on Apr 19, 2010 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

it doesn't seem that strange

what makes you think they listen to anyone intelligent in their front office.

And to top off their greatest season yet the new jersey nets scored 86 points...in double overtime. yes a professional basketball team only mustered 86 points in 58 minutes of basketball.

by Gina on Apr 18, 2010 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hmmmm....
As with third baseman David Wright’s promotion after 114 at-bats in Triple-A in 2004, the timing of Davis’ promotion is open for debate. Team insiders say there are particular reservations about whether Davis is ready, but Mets first basemen are hitting a combined .143 with one homer and three RBIs through 11 games and there’s pressure on the organization to win now. Mets pitchers are hitting .238 with two RBIs.

I’m very scared of the Mets’ win now philosophy and its ramifications, such as promoting Mejia. Also LOL at Mets pitchers hitting better than the first basemen.

by EtSuKe on Apr 18, 2010 8:35 PM EDT reply actions  

I'm scared

that these people in the front office actually think this team will win now even with Davis and Meija.

And to top off their greatest season yet the new jersey nets scored 86 points...in double overtime. yes a professional basketball team only mustered 86 points in 58 minutes of basketball.

by Gina on Apr 18, 2010 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

well that's what I mean

that they think we’re close enough that some bullpen innings from a minor and a rookie 1b who may or may not be able to hit breaking balls will carry us to meaningful games in September the play-offs

And to top off their greatest season yet the new jersey nets scored 86 points...in double overtime. yes a professional basketball team only mustered 86 points in 58 minutes of basketball.

by Gina on Apr 18, 2010 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well So Far It's Not That Far Fetched That Ike Can Make a Difference

I was only against calling up Ike for service time reasons, but that is not an issue apparently. The guy can hit and is a solid defender. It’s very common for studs to get called up without much, if any, AAA experiece. Heyward only had one great year in the minors and played just 3 games at AAA and is doing fine. Sure they will face problems with major league breaking balls but they will not learn by facing minor-league breaking pitches. That just is something every hitter must learn, but Ike is solid and is ready now I think.

Our Pythagorean W-L should be .500 despite Beltran being out and Jacobs eating up the most cleanup at bats. We’ve lost a lot of close games, mainly due to weak hitting. Wright and Bay are not getting much good pitches because of lack of threats in front and behind them. The Mets need a real bat and Ike is ready now. The Mets can actually compete once the get some offensive support. Frenchy’s unforeseen change in attitude really is a huge boost to the Mets prospects this year. We just need Beltran and Ike to solidify our lineup. If we can play .500 ball until Beltran returns, which is not far-fetched, we can make a serious run.

Ike’s impact can be huge if you consider that the Mets heart of the lineup can now feature Wright, Ike, Bay, and Frenchy. Until we can go 4 straight solid players without an extremely weak link then we can start winning some of these close games we’ve been losing.

by M.C.Teufel on Apr 19, 2010 5:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Why not allow Ike to learn at the MLB level ?

He is surely better than what we have now and probably better than Murphy. So why not let him develop at the top level ? It can’t hurt.

by Blame-everyone-else on Apr 18, 2010 11:44 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

i'd definitely disagree it can't hurt

after all the media hoopla if he came up and stunk it up I can imagine the field the day the NY media would have.

And to top off their greatest season yet the new jersey nets scored 86 points...in double overtime. yes a professional basketball team only mustered 86 points in 58 minutes of basketball.

by Gina on Apr 19, 2010 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

I can see it now

Ike struggles, trade proposals for mediocre pitching in the offseason and “scouts” saying he’s a bust and he’ll never be a good player in the majors. Just remove Fernando’s name, insert Ike, and it’s like a cycle.

Sunny days ahead? Probably not.

by Brian. on Apr 19, 2010 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'll never understand why Mets prospects are not allowed a learning curve in the majors like all young players.

And why the hell do we give a $&@" what the asinine NY media has to say. Just label this a rebuilding year, put Ike at first and Mejia in the rotation. Oh, and trade Frenchy while his stock is high and put F-mart in his place.

by Blame-everyone-else on Apr 19, 2010 1:04 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Well all young prospects usually aren't brought up arguably before they're ready

In my opinion, just based off things that were said after his season last year, 1 week or so of AAA games isn’t enough to know if he’s ready to handle major league breaking balls, though apparently no one else in our line up can either, or lefties.

And to top off their greatest season yet the new jersey nets scored 86 points...in double overtime. yes a professional basketball team only mustered 86 points in 58 minutes of basketball.

by Gina on Apr 19, 2010 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

because the New York media is there

to make sensationalist stories, and there’s a lot more readership in reading so and so is a bust trade him, rather than so and so struggled in a small sample size, send him back down to AAA.

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Apr 19, 2010 5:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

and because the team is run by people who take the Post seriously

If ownership and management were willing to ride out a month-long media storm without changing course six times in response to every loudmouthed columnist and short-term performance blip, being in the NY-media hothouse wouldn’t be such a crippling thing.

by anonymous on Apr 19, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

or if they could get through a press conference with some confidence

instead of stuttering and bumbling. When the Boston media second guesses everything Bellicheck does he basically tells them to stfu because he doesn’t care. When the NY media is outraged over the Yankees not resigning Damon Cashman replies with a smart ass answer. When we hold press conferences we mumble and stutter through them like we have no idea what’s going on, we’re literally like blood in the water.

And to top off their greatest season yet the new jersey nets scored 86 points...in double overtime. yes a professional basketball team only mustered 86 points in 58 minutes of basketball.

by Gina on Apr 19, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

After having watched Jacobs and Tatis

I think the Mets fans will have some patience. I also don’t think Ike will struggle that much. He’s pretty polished as both a hitter and fielder. He’s tearing the skin off the ball in AAA and he won’t learn much about breaking pitches in AAA. It’s hard to grow when you are not being challenged and it doesn’t look like AA and AAA pitching is much of a challenge. For his development he needs to face real Major League pitching and now is the time to do it as the Mets are sucking it up with our 1B platoon gettng outhit by our pitching. I think even the dumb fans have low expectations of the team now and would love to see a fresh young face and would show more patience than normal, if needed.

by M.C.Teufel on Apr 19, 2010 5:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

huh if anything

AAA is where hitters learn the most about breaking ball pitches, because so few top pitching prospects actually go through AAA now it’s mostly retreads are soft tossers with so-so fastballs but who’s best pitches are breaking balls.

And to top off their greatest season yet the new jersey nets scored 86 points...in double overtime. yes a professional basketball team only mustered 86 points in 58 minutes of basketball.

by Gina on Apr 19, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

He was putting up a walk a game in AAA

After completely crushing AAA-ML pitchers in ST, stud prospects in the Fall League, and AA pitching last year. Over the last decade or so many teams have sent up stud prospects with little or no AAA seasoning because there is little seasoning to do there. Learning to hit soft-tossers with average breaking balls in AAA doesn’t do much for a players development as soft tossers with great breaking balls tend to be in the Majors (there are not really that many pitchers with heat in the majors as only 44 have an average fastball of 91 mph or more).

The only reason why there is even some doubt about Ike is because he had a single bad half-year in his whole life in his first time in professional ball. He’s 23 years old, extremely talented (was a great pitcher just 2 years ago), grew up around baseball, has a father who can guide him through handling NY and major league pressure, and has crushed every pitch he has seen over the last year. Time is plenty. Wright was also in a similar position after crushing AA, Fall leagues and ST there was nothing left for him to do in AAA. Same with Heyward who only played about 3 games in AAA. There is a time when it just becomes clear that a prospect has no reason remaining in AAA. This is Ike’s time.

The only bad side to sending Ike up now is it hides Omar’s and Jerry’s ineptitude if he hits well. There was no reason why Carter shouldn’t have been brought up instead of Jacobs to start the year.

by M.C.Teufel on Apr 20, 2010 4:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

that's actually not true

there were concerns about Ike even before he was drafted about how his game would translate from metal bats to wooden bats, a lot of scouts expected him to be medium upside but a relatively high pick because he should move fast, that’s why there was so much concern after his bad half of a season because he came in with concerns about whether he could succeed without metal bats. He’s definitely not a Jason Heyward or David Wright type prospect so I’m not really sure that’s a fair comparison, and fwiw Heywards currently being eaten alive by breaking balls, those guys were major prospect because of their age/level production, where as Davis isn’t as far ahead of the aging curve.

And to top off their greatest season yet the new jersey nets scored 86 points...in double overtime. yes a professional basketball team only mustered 86 points in 58 minutes of basketball.

by Gina on Apr 20, 2010 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

As long as Ike can crush righty pitching

And not look stupid against lefties I’ll take him. Anything is better than Jacobs, plus this may finally give Nick Evans a chance to be an everyday AAA player.

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by Hoyadestroya85 on Apr 19, 2010 8:43 AM EDT reply actions  

Carter

seems logical at this point. I mean if hes not here for OF depth so we dont have to see GMJ as much and 1B depth to stop Tatis from being overexposed, why keep him in the organization?

Give him the call, like Ike stay down a bit longer, no harm no foul here IMO.

by DWEEEZ on Apr 19, 2010 8:55 AM EDT reply actions  

I think it is a good move, come on he has to hit better than .143

Look he hit enough in spring to be here. He hit in winter ball, he is hitting at AAA. He is ready. Whether he comes up now, later this year or next season, he will go through periods of bad hitting. He can only learn by being here now. I was worried more about his fielding, but from that artice, it was just winter rust that caused him to play the field poorly.

by Rickfansince76 on Apr 19, 2010 11:01 AM EDT reply actions  

Its about time Davis is on the roster but

he should of broke camo with them, Its might be a bad situation right now thou with the hitting stuggles of the rest of the line up. But I guess Manuel and Minaya need to go all in now to keep their jobs

by TheKid08 on Apr 19, 2010 4:56 PM EDT reply actions  

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