Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

Is Jeff Francoeur More Patient?

The result of this was a double.

Among the weirder developments of the young season is Jeff Francoeur's double-digit walk total in April (surprisingly not the first or second time he's done that in his career). His to-date walk-rate doubles his career total and nearly triples last year's mark. And while that number likely represents a sample-size fluke, every walk seems like an event--a symbol of hope and a testament to the power of reform. Howard Johnson supposedly worked with him on "pitch recognition" this offseason; maybe he has changed. Or is he just leading us on?

Below are his plate discipline stats, right to left: O-Swing (the percentage of pitches outside of the zone swung at), Swing (percentage of all pitches swung at), O-Contact (the percentage of times he made contact when swinging on a pitch outside of the strike zone), contact (percentage of pitches swung at that were put into play), and percentages of pitches swung on and missed:

Year O-Swing Swing O-Contact Contact Zone SwStr
Career 36.4% 58.6% 58.7% 76.8% 49.5% 13.3%
2010 40.3% 57.1% 74.1% 88.4% 45.3% 9.5%
ML Avg 26.9% 44.5% 64.7% 80.7% 48.4% 8.3%

 

Not surprisingly, O-swing has a strong negative correlation with BB%--it's hard to walk when you swing at all the balls. It's almost inconceivable, then, that Francoeur's supposed "breakout" in patience and lowest career K% coincides with his highest career O-Swing%. His high O-contact partly explains the incongruity, at least the low strikeouts. And while that may look like a sample-size fluke, his O-Contact has steadily increased every year since his rookie-season, from 44.6% in 2005 to 66.1% last season. This incredible bad-ball hitting has significantly shrunken the holes in his swing:

4554185911_33ea687b9e_o_medium

The red and blue shapes represent the boundaries of the areas where Frenchy consistently swung and missed--obvious outliers were excluded. This improvement could feasibly help him walk more. Walking isn't just about taking the most balls, it's about taking ball four. More foulballs means deeper counts and fewer swinging strikes means fewer pitcher's counts. Having a high O-Contact% and BB% aren't mutually exclusive, after all--Joe Mauer and Dustin Pedroia both had BB%>10 and O-Contact%>75 last year.

Those two players, however, did not swing at 40% of the balls they saw, or even anything close to that number. They are merely good at hitting the few balls they do swing at. Very few players can successfully maintain that high of an O-Swing and BB%. Players like Vladimir Guerrero and Pablo Sandoval come to mind, both of whom are known as prolific free-swingers. They're also both testaments to the axiom that strike-zone judgement is the ability to recognize where a pitch is relative to the strikezone, not what you do with the pitch after you've made the determination. Does Francoeur, however, have the skills to become a Guerrero-type hitter? 

One consideration is the mechanical adjustments he's made since joining the Mets, which I discussed briefly last season. Consider the ridiculous picture at the top of this article, depicting the swing on Francoeur's clutch double from the other day. I doubt Francoeur makes contact with that pitch, a good foot off the plate, during his worst years on the Braves. Here's that swing broken down, and compared to a similar swing at a pitch not nearly as far off the plate from his disastrous '08. In both instances, the end-result was an opposite field hit.

Francoeur1_medium

There's some interesting contrasts here, besides his looking really skinny in a less-form-fitting Mets uni (pause). Starting with the result, in the Mets hit, Francoeur gets some of the barrel on a pitch way outside, without falling over or stumbling. By contrast, as a Brave, he reaches to nub a pitch on the outside-corner with the end of his bat, as he practically leans backward. In the two middle frames, while the ball is nearly in the catcher's mitt, his hands are at opposite positions. As a Met, his hands are driving toward the ball, whereas as a brave, he's just started moving them forward. I'm not a scout or hitting-expert, but focusing on those two frames demonstrates a pretty clear mechanical improvement:

 Francoeur2_medium 

Look how his knee is bent in the first frame. As a Brave, he was planting his foot in a pronounced leg-kick, then dragging his hands and hips through the zone to catch up with the pitch. His current swing is much more fluid--his hips and hands naturally drive forward across his leg. Weight is being transfered to generate power and stay balanced, not just to fling his bat through the zone. 

Another positive sign is the possibility that he actually is recognizing pitches instead of guess-hitting. It's way to early to make determinations, but his performance so far against various pitches is encouraging. 

Ultimately, it seems Jeff Francoeur is not becoming more patient--he's swinging at more balls and seeing fewer pitches per plate appearance. He may, however, be making strides in becoming a better Jeff Francoeur. With better pitch recognition--both in terms of location and type--he can take the pitches he knows he can't hit, while swinging at what he thinks he can. He's got the bat-speed and plate-coverage to decide to swing at anything in an instant.

Francoeur always spoke of walks in the past as a choice. It was easy to dismiss these statements at the time as the pontifications of the bad, proud player, but here was the guy who errantly claimed that OBP wasn't important enough to put on the scoreboard. Maybe--to a degree--Francoeur is simply choosing, or at least trying, to walk more. He's already walked once this year after being down 0-2, something he did exactly once in his four years with the Braves. 

It's an absurd and unlikely scenario in which Francoeur can become this player who can decide to wildly hack at a pitch a foot off a plate and then display meticulous patience the next time up. Yet, such is the line all of the game's great bad ball hitters--Yogi, Ichiro, Vlad, and now Sandoval--have walked. It is perhaps the rarest and most entertaining skillset, fittingly belonging to the rarest talents and the most entertaining personalities. Francoeur certainly has both. Time will tell.

Comment 31 comments  |  4 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

frame by frame shots show alot

I like the guy, he has energy and seems to be a little like Reyes in that he is smiling and loose which helps. He doesnt need to be .300 hitter but if he can stay at .280 and drive in some runs, hit the HR in the clutch on occasion that is good along with his arm and defense

by Rickfansince76 on Apr 29, 2010 6:56 AM EDT reply actions  

Great analysis Sam

I think everybody wants Frenchy to succeed and as long as he has good mechanics he can make it happen without walking 100 times a season. Everybody likes a guy who hustles and has one of the strongest outfield arms outside of Willie Mays and it’s just a matter of him getting the barrel of the ball on the bat and having some BABIP luck to succeed.

What Would Matt Szczur Do?

Fact on Villanova Sports

by Hoyadestroya85 on Apr 29, 2010 8:40 AM EDT reply actions  

Fascinating, Sam

Thanks for the great read.

formerly known around these parts as nycbroncosfan

by Douglas A. Lee on Apr 29, 2010 10:10 AM EDT reply actions  

Great stuff, Sam.

I’m holding out hope that he is somewhat reformed.

by D.J. Short on Apr 29, 2010 10:15 AM EDT reply actions  

He really is a hard guy not to like

And you know it bothers braves fans when he succeeds, so there’s some bonus.

I will be cautiously optimistic, but that hit yesterday was a great example of better plate coverage and balance. Let’s hope he keeps it up

by HotChipWillBreakYourLegs on Apr 29, 2010 10:17 AM EDT reply actions  

ah

yeah, the added bonus that Braves fans will be pissed if he turns into a 3 WAR player or better during his prime age years. I forgot about that. I bet a lot of them must still have some affection for the guy.

by wobatus on Apr 29, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

His approach at the plate seems bipolar. Or he has a plan!

Maybe depending on the pitcher (team scouting report) or count he takes a different approach. Since he is seeing fewer pitches per PA, it doesn’t look like he is fouling more balls in general and getting into deeper counts. Against some pitchers/counts it looks like he is more likely to take a pitch, and against others he is putting the ball in play early.

Given that he is a free swinger and will probably not change that, he needs to keep improving his contact rates to around 75% outside contact and 90% zone contact. His zone contact also raised a bit, from ~84% (Braves) to ~89% (Mets). Even that by itself doesn’t mean everything. Playing around with Fangraphs, I saw 2 other players who had the same Francoeur-like O-Swing, O-Contact, Contact: Bengie Molina and Ronny Cedeno. It’s hard to check if he is hitting more line drives since the LD% and FB% classification is not really accurate. Though , it’s possible to see that he is hitting for more power after the trade (SLG and HR/BIA) and he is being intentionally walked more too (0.6% to 1.0%, that’s almost 3 walks in 600 PA).

The Sandoval comparison fits better. Ichiro, on the other hand, is quite unique with plenty of opposite field hits, infield hits, outside contact of +80%, zone contact of +95%. Even Ichiro doesn’t swing outside the zone that much (around ML average).

In lobby campaign for Chris Carter.

by Michkin on Apr 29, 2010 10:18 AM EDT reply actions  

wow

When I wrote this post last week, his Swing% was at 51.5%. Now it’s at 57.1%.

IIRC, his O-Swing was ~33%. His “discipline” really fell apart this week or it was all just a fluke.

by hotspur on Apr 29, 2010 10:33 AM EDT reply actions  

Jeff Wincoeur...

greatest man ever? or alien insect supreme being?

I, for one, welcome our new insect overlord and Delta Airline representative.

HELLO HELLO MR WILPON... BUY THAT MANSION. WE DONT NEED A CONDO.

by kendynamo on Apr 29, 2010 12:02 PM EDT reply actions  

Great article

It’s an abosolutely fantastic breakdown and analysis. Huge kudos.

by SoCal Metfan on Apr 29, 2010 12:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Nice analysis

The 2009-2010 strike zone comparison is pretty striking. That’s like a 25% smaller swinging area, so far.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Apr 29, 2010 12:48 PM EDT reply actions  

That's a 25% smaller missing area.

He’s still swinging at lots of things he shouldn’t, if I’m reading this correctly. He’s just fouling more of them off now.

by jadelane on Apr 30, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

That's a great analysis of the data,

but I’m not sure about the swing. You meant to say that the one where his “fanny flies out” (as Keith would say) is the better swing because he covers more area? I don’t know about that. I guess he could become a better bad ball hitter, but that’s a hard thing to predict and his approach (that swing) seems poor.

by JohnPeterson on Apr 29, 2010 1:03 PM EDT reply actions  

I think his approach in general was better, if not the actual swing.

In the Mets picture he looks like was trying to go the other way, shoot the ball down the RF line, even though he looked awkward doing it. In the Braves picture he looks like he is pulling out, trying to pull a pitch that can’t be pulled. It goes back to what I said below, I will have to see more, but it does seem like Frenchie is more prepared for each at bat, for what the situation is and what he wants to get done, for who the pitcher is and how they want to attack him, even if his plate discipline by itself in terms of ball/strike recognition hasn’t actually improved. It’s like Sam said, it’s not about getting the most balls, it’s about drawing ball 4, and so far this year, this guy has done a good job for us, I hope he continues what he’s doing.

"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS

by nrmax88 on Apr 29, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

That picture is a little deceptive

in both instances his butt flies out to a degree, he’s just in different phases of the swing at the same point. Also, in the Mets picture, he is bending over a ton, so it appears like he’s flying open a lot more than he is. The point is he’s more balanced. As a Brave, his swing was longer and he would often follow-through with his legs all crossed up. As a Met, it’s quicker and he ends up in stride to first base.

by Sam Page on Apr 29, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yea, that sounds right.

I’m still skeptical of Frenchy turning into Vlad Guerrero, but I guess something like that isn’t out the peak of his potential.

Also, they both have killer cannons.

by JohnPeterson on Apr 29, 2010 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would have to agree BT!

The swing looks pretty ugly. I think nrmax is right. He isn’t trying to pull the outside pitch now, like he used to Atl. I am not too much of a fan of freeze frame, I think the actual swing clips are better for swing analysis.

I think that his swing used to open up toward left field, but now it opens up towards the pitcher. You can tell by the hitters belt buckle. Pull happy hitters open up toward the left field.

by Coolpapabell on Apr 29, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

My computer is broken

so freeze frame is all you get.

by Sam Page on Apr 29, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lol

No worries, I just consulted your swing analysis from last year, and MLB.com

by Coolpapabell on Apr 29, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

and another thing

In addition to the adjustments on his swing, its clear he take a different approach. I can see how a hitter can hack in one at bat, and then aim for patience the next. I think some hitters like to go for the big fly, which increases the chance for strike outs. The thinking amongst players is that strike outs are more costly under certain situations than others. If you have a 5-0 lead in the 7th, then why not go for the dinger? leading off in a 3-4 game in the 7th is a different story.

Nice write-up Sam. I have a feeling we will be visiting this once again on Francouer Avenue.

by Coolpapabell on Apr 29, 2010 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nice write up Sam.

I hate, hate, hate to ever reference Joe Morgan, but this reminds me of something he likes to say a lot. It’s not all about strikes per say, but Frenchie knowing what pitches he can hit hard, in his specific hitting zone. It is true, just don’t swing at the balls you can’t hit. If he hits a ball hard, I’m okay with it, his contact rate is so solid that, if he can learn the pitches he can drive, and layoff the pitches he can’ hit hard, he will be a nice little player. Not a star, but a nice contributor.

I think the main difference in Colonel Mustard this year so far is that in certain situations he isn’t as free wheeling as he used to be. I think when he is in a 2-0 count with some guys on base he is now actually looking for a pitch he wants to hit, not swinging at whatevers close enough to reach. He still chases and misses sometimes, but I think he seems to have a lot more of a plan then he did when I saw him in years past. The guy has grown on me, and I hope he continues to play well.

"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS

by nrmax88 on Apr 29, 2010 1:05 PM EDT reply actions  

Very well done Sam

I think the thing I find most promising in all of this is the chart with th Red and Blue areas showing the location of stuff he swings at. If he continues to keep that area much tighter to the strikezone as he apparently has this year, I really like his chances to be successful long term. I really have to think he’ll be able to maintain a somewhat acceptable BB% if he can continue to lay off the really bad pitches.

I think his weight loss is certainly helping him as well. At some point losing some of that unnecessary bulk is going to help with his flexibility, and that in turn should also help him with both his mechanics and his ability to foul off pitches that he’d completely miss in the past.

Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...

by Stephen Schmidt on Apr 29, 2010 1:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Great writeup

I never expected his patience to be that consistent throughout the season, but its good to see he can recognize what he can’t hit now, and he’s getting his hands through he zone faster.. A definite improvement.

by KeithsMoustache on Apr 29, 2010 1:44 PM EDT reply actions  

Great writeup

Francoeur Avenue

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Apr 29, 2010 4:04 PM EDT reply actions  

I don't think those 2 frames you chose are a fair comparison


In the first one his bat is still on his shoulder, and in the second his bat is over the plate. It really isn’t the same frame.
It seems to me the “improved plate coverage” in the Mets swing (just this one example) is due to his torso being vertical with the ground. The pitches are also really different, making comparison difficult.
His swing being more fluid does make sense to me and Frenchy does seems to have good plate coverage as a Met. I think it is problematic to judge his mechanics on two swings, with one of the swings being when the ball is a foot off the plate. I think we need more a lot more time to judge Frenchy, but it is interesting.

by EtSuKe on Apr 29, 2010 5:06 PM EDT reply actions  

Yea it isn't a perfect comparison

but I wanted to compare when the ball was nearly the same distance from the plate. If you look at the subsequent frames, I think my point stands—in the Braves example, his front side flies open. In the Mets example, he’s more gradually shifting his weight.

by Sam Page on Apr 29, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Awesome article

As a Braves fan, I particularly appreciated this. I have no idea how long Jeff can keep this up, but I guess it’s his best chance of continued success. Since he’s on the Mets now, I can’t wish him well (even though I went to high school with him), but I am glad at least that I don’t have to worry about whether he maintains his current walk rates.

"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson

by Jacob Peterson on May 1, 2010 12:07 PM EDT reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Gary_carter_small
fxcarden's Nightly Rant! - Vol. I, No. 2 (August, 2011)
Gary_carter_small
fxcarden's Nightly Rant! - Vol. I, No. 1 (July, 2011)
159714144_040c6c1501_small
The Greatest Bison: Frank Grant and the Color Line
Small
A WIN METHOD Analysis of the Current State of the Mets
Img_1435_small
This Week in Mets Quotes

Recent FanPosts

Small
A projection of the rest of 2012 using two key stats
Small
Game Replays
Img_1435_small
This Week in Mets Quotes
Small
Santana or Sabathia?
Small
Whats to be done with the 'Pen?
Small
What about Oswalt?
61atehunexl__sl500_aa300__small
This Week in Mets' Overreaction

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recommended FanShots

At 5:30 PM EDT today Starting today at 5:00 PM EDT, witness one of the greatest renderings of visual sound effects ever!

UPDATE 1: My browser has crashed several times in the process from all the rants (FUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!) - as a result, there will instead be 4 or 5 separate installments of fxcarden's Nightly Rants! from 2011, with a similar pattern for the 2012 rants. Take my word for it, when I say that it's for the best. Here's the revised schedule:

Volume 1: 2011
No. 1: Today at 5:00 PM EDT
No. 2: Tomorrow
No. 3: Thursday
No. 4 and No. 5 (?) TBD

UPDATE 2: Vol. I, No. 1 (July, 2011) is now up!
beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeautiful colorization of Willie Mays' over-the-shoulder catch. Credit from Beyond the Box Score via Reddit. Embiggen at http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7071/7231074678_3faa94a82b_o.jpg
Frank Francisco is... The Most Interesting Closer In The World embiggen
2013 ALL-STAR GAME(TM) LOGO CONTEST

Major League Baseball has formally announced that Citi Field will be the site of the 2013 All-Star Game. (see video) In light of this, I have decided to launch an All-Star Game logo contest. To help get you started, I provided all of you with a sample All-Star Game logo. (click here to embiggen) If you wish to participate, please enter your submission with an image below, in the comments section. The contest ends on May 31st. I will choose a select number of finalists, and the community will vote on which of those logos is the best one.

Can you create a better logo than the sample logo provided? Then, give it a shot. Good luck to all participants!
Jon Rauch is awesome. Dan Tanna is, obviously, a fan of Greg Pomes.

Recent FanShots

What's Mike Baxter's Ceiling?
Francesa: Ike Has 'Jungle Fever'
Mets At The Quarter-Pole: Doing Things The Wright Way
WTF is up with all the larry lovefest
Corner IF Production: Will Up Go Down if Down Climbs Up?
Tell Me When It's Over: Ron Darling
Top Mets Prospects: Jenrry Mejia Makes Season Debut; Leathersich Dominates
Weekly SB Nation New York MLB Power Rankings

+ New FanShot All FanShots >

Yahoo_full_count

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Gary_carter_small
fxcarden's Nightly Rant! - Vol. I, No. 2 (August, 2011)
Gary_carter_small
fxcarden's Nightly Rant! - Vol. I, No. 1 (July, 2011)
159714144_040c6c1501_small
The Greatest Bison: Frank Grant and the Color Line
Small
A WIN METHOD Analysis of the Current State of the Mets
Img_1435_small
This Week in Mets Quotes

Recent FanPosts

Small
A projection of the rest of 2012 using two key stats
Small
Game Replays
Img_1435_small
This Week in Mets Quotes
Small
Santana or Sabathia?
Small
Whats to be done with the 'Pen?
Small
What about Oswalt?
61atehunexl__sl500_aa300__small
This Week in Mets' Overreaction

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


THE BIG GUY

Aa_avatar_small Eric Simon

THE INCREDIBLES

Blackfish2_small Alex Nelson

Endy_small Rob Castellano

Img_1262_small Matthew Artus

Kanye_pekka_small Sam Page

Best_infield_ever_small James Kannengieser

Metsstitches_small Eno Sarris

48900_1085732804_4466_n_small Chris McShane

Lg_rocker_ap_small Matthew Callan

Billy_and_daddy_4th_of_july_small Bill Petti

THE NEWS GURUS

Mrmet_small Steve Schreiber

3_small Stephen Schmidt

159714144_040c6c1501_small Pack Bringley

124967042_crop_340x234_small Jeffrey Paternostro