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Around SBN: Roy Nelson Willing to Pay for His Next Opponent's Drug Test

Braves 3, Mets 2: David Wrong

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David Wright is awesome at baseball. He is currently, by far, the Mets' most valuable position player. That said, his performance in this game was calamitous. An 0-4 at the plate with three strikeouts and a throwing error to help the Braves score the deciding run in the 9th were the lowlights for David tonight. He wasn't the sole problem -- Jose Reyes went 0-4 and Chris Carter 0-3 on just six pitches -- but wow that was just a brutal 9th inning to watch and the headline of this recap was borne of that frustration. An RBI against Billy Wagner in the top of the 9th, and not a strikeout, would have been comforting for this fanbase right now. Rationality is usually a virtue I try to maintain while watching baseball, but this was a remote control heaving loss.

Johan Santana gave the Mets a great chance to win (seven innings, five hits, two runs, four strikeouts). He gave up a two-run home run to Troy Glaus in the 3rd but then went on to retire 13 batters in a row to finish his outing. Pedro Feliciano pitched an effective 8th but was pulled after allowing a single to Brian McCann leading off the 9th. Jenrry Mejia was summoned, and he walked Yunel Escobar before Wright threw away Melky Cabrera's weak grounder, allowing pinch runner Brent Clevlen to score. There has been talk of sending Mejia back down to the minors and after this game it just has to happen. His presence on the roster adds insult to insult.

Ike Davis and Jeff Francoeur hit solo homers in the 5th to account for the Mets' offense. Frenchy has been scuffling, so good for him. His double play with 1st and 2nd and one out in the 7th was costly but 1-3 with a homer is a triumph for him so I'll allow a mulligan tonight.

Jerry Manuel pulled his usual nonsense, leaving the bunt on with a 3-1 count to GMJoke and Luis Castillo on 2nd with none out in the 9th inning. That's Jerryball -- giving away an out with runner already in scoring position. The next Mets manager could be the incorrigible Roger Clemens and I would find him more tolerable than Jerry, as long as he didn't bunt in every scenario. Also, Fernando Tatis has been exiled to Nick Evans Island.

R.A. Dickey has been freed and will start vs. Livan Hernandez in Washington tomorrow night. Livan's ERA is due for some serious regression so maybe the bats can light him up.

Poem by Howard Megdal

Johan start is fine wine Mets elect not to drink
While misused youngster Mejia allows Mets to sink
Though blaming Wright for most Met woes is unwarranted abuse
No sac fly? Errant throw? For this loss, J'accuse

Star-divide

SB Nation Coverage

* Traditional Recap
* Boxscore
* Amazin' Avenue Gamethread
* Talking Chop Gamethread

Win Probability Added

20100518_mets_braves_0_67_lbig__medium

Big winners:  Luis Castillo +18.2%, Johan Santana +14.3% (as pitcher)
Big losers: Jenrry Mejia -30.0%, David Wright -26.1% 
Teh aw3s0mest play:  Jeff Francoeur home run +15.6%
Teh sux0rest play: Troy Glaus two-run homer -23.2%
Total pitcher WPA:  -13.3%
Total batter WPA: -36.7%
GWRBI!: $&%#$%

Game Thread Roll Call

Nice job by Gina; her effort in the game thread embiggens us all.

Num Name # of Posts
1 Gina 138
2 fxcarden 133
3 freakystyley 122
4 sj10689 108
5 BrockRocks 91
6 Brian. 75
7 MetsKnicksRutgers 53
8 lstorie1971 48
9 Endys Game 41
10 Shivling 35

Comment 262 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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david wrong threw away the game!

literally

Now, when i hear a man gets 20 million dollars a year for playing a game, I say "good for him".

by SuperSantana on May 18, 2010 10:02 PM EDT reply actions  

I was watching Lost for the last hour, so thankfully I missed the 9th

Dubs, I love ya, but for fuck’s sake.

There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ

The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?

by Syler on May 18, 2010 10:02 PM EDT reply actions  

Same here

Glad I missed it. I knew it will be Jack.

by cuseindahuse on May 18, 2010 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Question: What's the highest OBP someone has ever accumulated with 170 plus strikeouts?

I’m going to guess it’s under .400

There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ

The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?

by Syler on May 18, 2010 10:07 PM EDT reply actions  

With you 170+

Adam Dunn just misses the mark. In 02 he had exactly 170 Ks with a .400 OBP. Jim Thome had a season with a 426 OBP and 171 Ks. I would guess that was the highest.

by Sokojoe on May 18, 2010 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd take that from David

especially seeing as he plays third, and plays ok defence.

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on May 19, 2010 6:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

He would have come off the bag a bit, but would have been able to tag the runner. At least that’s what it looked like on the replay, anyway.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on May 18, 2010 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Traid Daveid Wrong.

"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on May 18, 2010 10:14 PM EDT reply actions  

Jerryball wins again.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on May 18, 2010 10:15 PM EDT reply actions  

I can't understand

why he insists on bunting runners to third, but is it too much to ask of David Wright to put the ball in play? This year, I guess it is.

by tmu on May 18, 2010 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

What I don't get is why he's using a pinch hitter to bunt in place of the 3 hitter

Why does he feel Carter’s defense is so bad he can’t stay in a tie game in the ninth, espescially when he’s at bat?

Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...

by Stephen Schmidt on May 18, 2010 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

It boggles.

But I suppose if you know you’re bunting and you know you’re making the defensive replacement, and the replacement is a better bunter (which Jerry is supposed to know from Spring Training and the like) . . . .

by tmu on May 18, 2010 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I really don't get

why Tatis isn’t batting there. Jerry had him on deck and pulled him back. Slappy doesn’t need to be bunted over, he has some speed, ESPECIALLY once the count reaches 3-1.

There may be sunny days ahead.

by Brian. on May 18, 2010 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Although I don't agree with the move, I can understand

Jerry thinking that his megastar can at least get a guy in from third with less than two outs, however.

by tmu on May 18, 2010 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Certainly true,

Dubs should get the runner in. But Jerry’s got GMJ bunting at this?


Manuel and Matthews deserve criticism for that.

There may be sunny days ahead.

by Brian. on May 18, 2010 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

isn't that

horribly depressing? and then he still says that he wouldnt have done it differently

by MetsKnicksRutgers on May 18, 2010 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jerry's stubbornness

& lack of sense is extremely frustrating.

There may be sunny days ahead.

by Brian. on May 18, 2010 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

can't agree with you here

this is how games are won. it is the 9th and you are tied. 1 run gives you the lead and the bullpen has to hold it, if you want to be a championship team. You move the runner to 3rd. Wright has to get him in with a SF or groundball the other way. The Yankees do this time and time again and win.

the only thing I may agree on, is leaving Carter in the game and taking the chance of a hit with no outs, but once GMJ enters, let him bunt. Heis only a .180 hitter

by Rickfansince76 on May 19, 2010 7:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree

even according to fangraphs, GMJ bunting was a “positive” play. Don’t get fooled by run expectancy matrix, it only gives you expectations, not standard deviations.

by alexSVK on May 19, 2010 7:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

For how much

he has been striking out though, does that seem like a safe bet? I would think he had more of a chance of King or getting a hit/bb than a pop up.

by MetsKnicksRutgers on May 18, 2010 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

The most telling moment of the game was when with a man on third

one out and a rookie on deck,Wagner and the braves decided to pitch to David in that situation with first base open.The normal move would have been to walk the right hand hitter intentionally to set up the double play with the lefthand rookie hitter Ike on deck.The NL is starting to lose respect for David’s bat.

by Putnan Prince on May 19, 2010 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Now is the time

to be concerned. The guy is not (W)right right now. In an odd way, maybe this nadir could be good for him — he knows it’s rock bottom, so he resets. I’d love to say it’s just a flukey outlier of a game, but we could see this coming.

by tmu on May 18, 2010 10:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Could we maybe not put the entire game on Wright?

I know between the Castillo-failing-to-drive-in K and the error it’s going to be a tough assignment, but there were a ton of other contributing factors to the loss here, starting with the bizarrely constructed lineup’s inability to make Medlen work in the early innings and continuing through the inexplicable weirdness of GMJ pinch-bunting. This was a team loss, and it’s really not fair to lump it all on the superstar who had a crappy (though yes, very crappy indeed) day.

by anonymous on May 18, 2010 10:20 PM EDT reply actions  

No, it's entirely his fault.

Aren’t you familiar with how baseball works by now?

"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on May 18, 2010 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

No one's putting the entire game on Wright

Jerry deserves a large part of blame for taking out Carter and putting in fucking GMJ to bunt

But I’m really getting concerned about Wright.

His BABPIP is like .360 now, but he’s only hitting .262, his OBP is down to .382 and he has almost twice as many Ks as walks

There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ

The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?

by Syler on May 18, 2010 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

and then bunting 3 1 count

Uf guy can’t hit 3 1 he shouldn’t be on Major League roster then Cox bunted same count in bottom but got lucky

by Sir Tmac on May 18, 2010 10:32 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Um

He kind of . . . struck out thrice, including with the lead run on third top 9, 1 out, then committed an error in the bottom half to allow the winning run in. This is about as much as one position player can do to keep his team from winning. And he’s our “superstar.” Of course expectations are higher. They should be. It’s OK to criticize Wright for this game (and for striking out at greater frequency than Mark Reynolds.) Really. Not good.

by tmu on May 18, 2010 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

indeed

That to whom much is given, much is expected. No, not Peter Parker’s Uncle Ben. Luke 12:48 (not proseltyzing mods, just where the phrase comes from).

Wright’s error is one thing. Errors happen. His approach with a runner at 3rd and less than 2 outs in the 9th was pretty dismal. He’s a great player who hasn’t been great (albeit very good-he’s still on a 5-6 WAR pace this year) for a year and a quarter. That happens. The high strikeouts are alarming, but more specifically I have an issue with his situational approach in that at-bat. Maybe he can’t choke-up, become slappy for an at-bat just to put it in play, but it seems like he was just gripping and ripping with 2 strikes.

None of that is to suggest the Mets don’t have far worse players, management, etc.

by wobatus on May 19, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

All of these things may be true

and not that I don’t love seeing David’s face on my tv everyday (because I do…I LOVE it), if Jerry doesn’t give him a freaking day off someone needs to be hurt. Meaning Jerry.

by wrightttxgirlllx3 on May 18, 2010 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

i mean we loose in the most amazing of fashions

its truly remarkable. I want this team to win so bad it hurts

I hate Philadelphia so much.

by the caveman on May 18, 2010 10:22 PM EDT reply actions  

just another way to lose at the office

Now, when i hear a man gets 20 million dollars a year for playing a game, I say "good for him".

by SuperSantana on May 18, 2010 10:26 PM EDT reply actions  

Wright's struggles + Reyes's struggles

+ everyone else’s struggles = sub .500

"If they want to pay me like Mike Gallego, I’ll play like Gallego."

by Juve1899 on May 18, 2010 10:26 PM EDT reply actions  

im really starting to lose confidence and hope in this team.

they’re playing sub-par, by their standards, and thats just bad.

Now, when i hear a man gets 20 million dollars a year for playing a game, I say "good for him".

by SuperSantana on May 18, 2010 10:27 PM EDT reply actions  

Jerry's managing has hurt us

But it can’t all be put on him

Reyes has been abominable, Wright is King twice a game, Bay has no power, and Francoeur and Barajas don’t get on base at all.

The bullpen has been overworked, in part, because outside of Santana and Pelf, our SP has been terrible

It’s a hurricane of fail right now

There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ

The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?

by Syler on May 18, 2010 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

This

is it. Reyes and Francoeur are both hitting under .220. I know y’all don’t like BA, but believe me, I’m using a kinder stat. Bay with one frigging HR. Now, you can’t completely absolve Jerry if his players aren’t hitting, but you can’t necessarily blame the in-game moves.

That said, it’s blindingly obvious that Jerry needs to go. There’s no guarantee that a change of pace salvages these players’ seasons (careers?), but Jerry isn’t giving us any positive contribution. If “it may not be his fault” is the best you can say about a manager, it’s time to buy him a clock and send him on his way.

by tmu on May 18, 2010 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree Bay's suckage

is by far the most troubling thing, because of the ridiculous amount of money we owe him. Why is Wright getting the brunt of the blame, not just for this game but in general. Bay and Reyes are the ones under performing, and with Reyes I can understand the missed time affecting him.

I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.

by Gina on May 18, 2010 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Reyes has a .550 OPS and only 8 walks in 153 AB

I know he missed 10 months, but at what point do we acknowledge that something might still be wrong with him?

There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ

The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?

by Syler on May 18, 2010 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah but what about Bay?

guy has gotten no grief at all? Talk about someone who has done nothing in the clutch

by Endys Game on May 18, 2010 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

he'd done nothing t all

I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.

by Gina on May 18, 2010 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bay's wOBA

is .350. Not what he’s being paid to do, but not like Beltran’s first year in NY. A whole year of .324 wOBA.

Yes, Reyes and Bay haven’t been as good as Wright has been. All 3 of them can play better.

by wobatus on May 19, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah I didn't realize he was already up to 150 at bats

Idk, players slump for that long sometimes, especially early in seasons. I’d at least give it a week or so more.

I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.

by Gina on May 18, 2010 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I honestly

would pay more attention to Reyes after the ASB. What we’ve got is horrid, and Jerry did him no favors by slotting him third, but I think you can still safely attribute this to the 10 months punctuated by the month of doctor-mandated couch potato.

by tmu on May 18, 2010 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah i forgot about that

the month of basically doing nothing probably hurt more than anything else

I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.

by Gina on May 18, 2010 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's what I think

We (or at least I) tend not to think about what’s really going on when players are on the DL. “What’s really going on” is training: they’re in the gym constantly, rehabbing the injury and working out everything else. Taking a pro athlete whose game is quickness, speed, coordination and agility (who missed the bulk of the last season, anyway) and sitting him down for a month with DVDs of The Office and some Fritos is not the typical response to an injury, and can’t be good.

by tmu on May 18, 2010 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wright

Looks awful out there. The OPS is still above .900, sure, but you really can’t blame fans for worrying right now. The OBP is falling, and the Ks are only getting worse. And after a game like this, I think it’s OK to criticize Wright, even if the place in the standings is not his doing.

by tmu on May 18, 2010 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

his obps gone down like .005 points in the last 5 games

it isn’t really getting worse, and he’s k’d at the same pace.

I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.

by Gina on May 18, 2010 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

It can't be possible

that he is gonna K this much. Nobody in history has K’d this much have they? I thought the record was like 203.

by MetsKnicksRutgers on May 18, 2010 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

reynolds k'd 223 times last year

and is on pace for close to that this year

I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.

by Gina on May 18, 2010 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

That was the record right?

Wasn’t Bobby Bonds the previous leader? Or Don Baylor I can’t remember which but i thought it was in the low 200s and Reynolds blew it away.

by MetsKnicksRutgers on May 18, 2010 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Howard had 199 in 2007 and 2008

Think that was the previous record

There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ

The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?

by Syler on May 18, 2010 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bobby Bonds had it for years

he struck out 189 times in 1970. Adam Dunn “beat” the record in 2004, with 195 K’s, then Howard with 199 in 2007 (& again in ’08), but Reynolds past him in ’08 with 204, and blew the record away last year with 223, which, incidently, is exactly how many Wright is on pace for after tonight.

2009 Did Not Happen

by cjmulrain on May 18, 2010 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wright has a .333 OBP in the month of May

Down 100 points from April

He also has just 7 walks this month with 26 Ks

There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ

The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?

by Syler on May 18, 2010 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

So it is getting worse

Is it really that unreasonable to expect your stars to be stars and your GMJs to at least hit .250? 26 strikeouts in May. Twenty-Six. Yeesh.

Normally, I’m not a “blame the hitting coach” guy, but man. . . Syler is right: it’s the perfect storm of suck.

by tmu on May 18, 2010 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

so the fact that he has that in 15 or so games

overrides the 25 or so games where he was OBPing north of .400? One is more valid than another moving forward?

John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.

by squid92 on May 18, 2010 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

He also has 26 Ks this month, matching his total from all of April

Sure, perhaps in June he’ll go back to the way he was in April, but is that a guarantee?

Look David Wright is still an awesome player, but his K rate is absurd right now, and given that his career high in walks is 94, one has to wonder if he’ll be able to maintain such a high walk rate while King 40% of the time

There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ

The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?

by Syler on May 18, 2010 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

rec'd

This is exactly how I feel, too. It’s getting really frustrating to hear all this bullshit about Wright, who is literally the last player to blame for the Mets’ problems. I only hope there aren’t any long-term consequences to the fans and media treating him so horribly.

by anonymous on May 18, 2010 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

No one's blaming him for all the team's problems

People are just concerned that’s he going to top his career high in Ks by 50 at the rate he’s going right now, and that he’s making terrible contact on almost everything right now

There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ

The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?

by Syler on May 18, 2010 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

this

I love David Wright, and even if he never gets a hit for the rest of his career, he will be one of my top-3 all-time favorite Mets, but the way he’s looked recently has been disconcerting. He’s struggling right now, and if he keeps K-ing like this while his OBP keeps dropping (as it has been this month), we could be in for a lot of trouble.

It’s not Wright’s fault, but the Mets DO rely on him more than the other 24 guys on the roster. Reyes deserves his fair share of the blame as well, so does Bay, and obviously the starters outside of Johan and Pelfrey has been a mess. The rest of the guys, well, it’s hard to blame them too much, b/c they’re just not that great, and that’s on Omar. But we need Wright to be an MVP candidate, and if the high K rate continues but the walk rate and power continue to decrease, the Mets are done for, and maybe not just for this season.

I still have faith that he’ll be fine, but games like this suck.

2009 Did Not Happen

by cjmulrain on May 19, 2010 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

If we get anywhere at all this year, it'll be a great big fat bonus

stop expecting to, and you’ll probably feel better.

He’s not going to be an MVP candidate every damn year. Better that he have an off year when absolutely everything else is fucked, no?

I don’t believe for a minute that this is going to be David’s hitting for the rest of his career. Baseball is lots and lots and lots of games, and lots of spells of statistical wonkiness. I thought we all knew this.

by SuperT on May 19, 2010 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

oh, I don't expect to compete this year

I think I’m pretty well on record with that.

But, I thought last year was his off year? Now it’s ok if he has an off-year this year too? If he has two consecutive off-years, well, that’s not an off-year. that’s a trend.

Like I said, I have faith that Wright will be fine, but the strikeouts are disconcerting. His OPS is still great, for now, but like some people have been pointing out: the high K rate was fine when he was walking just as much and hitting a ton of homers. If he’s K-ing a ton but not walking, and hitting less homers, well then it really starts to become a problem. And it’s not ridiculous to think that if he keeps striking out this much, he’s going to walk less and maybe homer less (though it’s also possible that he’ll homer more, if the K-ing is related to a new, more powerful approach. Hard to tell for certain yet)

2009 Did Not Happen

by cjmulrain on May 19, 2010 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

No, honsetly, your armchair psychology is both incorrect and sort of demeaning.

I’m not trying to say that you can’t worry about Wright’s performance in some aspects. His K’s are too high? Yes; yes, they are. His batting average is lower than other years? Yes; yes, it is. But you cannot, CANNOT, be objective when you accentuate his struggles and refuse to acknowledge
1) his increased walk rate
2) his return to form with his slugging, even in Citi Field’s cavernous dimensions
3) his bounceback fielding, which so far this year has been pretty decent as compared to recent “bad” years
Fact is, you’re being intentionally misleading. His performance is not “acceptable”; it is “very, very good”. He’s already amassed 1.4 WAR this season; at this pace, he’ll be the best 3rd baseman in the NL by far. It’s disingenuous to suggest that he’s “hurting the team”, because he isn’t.
And as a p.s., don’t respond to aggressive posts in an offended manner when you follow up by remarking on my “undescended testicles”, telling me to shove stuff up my ass, and basically insinuating you’d want to fight me. Look, I’ll admit my post was overly aggressive, but “fuck” is a word that gets thrown around; if you can’t deal with that, fine, I won’t use it. But don’t follow it up with that sort of hypocrisy.

John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.

by squid92 on May 19, 2010 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

He has seven walks in May

and 26 K’s. I credit Syler for grabbing these numbers. He also had 1.0 “LAR” last night.

Is it fair to judge a player on a sliding scale? Maybe not in isolation, but we need Bay to hit home runs. We need Reyes to actually get on base. We need Francoeur to do the same. We need Wright to be an all-star. There’s criticism and there’s criticism. Is he the best player on the team? Yes. Should he be “dumped”? No. Is he anywhere near the player Chase Utley is? You can answer that.

“Fuck” gets thrown around. “Fuck you” does not. I wasn’t “offended,” but when you start a spat, don’t blame someone else for keeping it going.

by tmu on May 19, 2010 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

But again, at this pace

Wright IS PLAYING LIKE AN ALL-STAR. 4 WAR is generally considered to be All-Star level over a full season, and Wright has amassed 1.4 WAR in a month and a half. Extrapolated over a full season, and that’s a 5 WAR season. Which isn’t the level that Wright COULD be, and which is why a certain amount of speculation and worry is totally fine. All I’m saying is that when you say “Wright looks awful out there”, you’re just wrong. It’s wrong, because he doesn’t look awful out there.

John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.

by squid92 on May 19, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

It's all about

the window. Over the course of the season, the only consistent “badness” has been the K’s. In a way, that’s encouraging, because it says he can have a Reynolds-like productive year and still strike out a lot. He’s been streaky, as always (and as every player), but it seems like the highs are lower and shorter-lived. He’s definitely on a “low.”

NOW, that said, I think that unless it was the product of a nagging injury, he’s the kind of player who responds positively to something like last night’s game. I think he should play tonight, and my prediction is that he has a couple hits, including an XBH.

by tmu on May 19, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Look, as a guy who's been around here for about a month

you might get to know a place before you take so regularly to schooling people. You’re coarsening the environment.

We’re familiar with squid, and we know how to read his “fuck you”s. All we know about you is that you’re an obnoxious ass.

by SuperT on May 19, 2010 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

seriously, please cut it out with the grade-school insults

“The other guy started it” is not a universal free pass for your own bad behavior, and you’ve been behaving pretty badly every time someone disagrees with you around here — endlessly escalating the name-calling and ad hominems, assuming bad faith at every turn, goading and prodding and psychologizing everyone who thinks you’re wrong as “defensive.” Maybe try taking the high road once in a while? The cavalcade of insults is getting very tiresome.

by anonymous on May 19, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

actually

I like seeing TMU take on the party line a bit. That gets tiresome. I don’t think too many folks are making a huge deal about Wright having a bad day and lots of strikeouts. A small deal, sure, and as soon as he gets an iota of crticism, then we get posts defending his honor, the “Trade David Wrong” meme, like this blog has a bunch of WFAN/Metsblog addicted mouthbreathers ready to trade him for Tyler Clippard or some such. Squid said fuck you and TMU responded. I don’t think he took a particularly low road, all things considered.

by wobatus on May 19, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

however

Things did get a little out of hand there. Rereading what I wrote I sound like I am pouring gas on the fire. It’s Manuel’s fault. He has us fighting each other.

by wobatus on May 19, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't mind "taking on the party line"

if it means arguing a contrary position. I do mind it if it means slinging childish insults and being deliberately goading and provocative, then crying “he started it” as though it excused the crappy behavior.

by anonymous on May 19, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh stop

Why you insist on inserting yourself into these things is beyond me. If you don’t like it, stay out of it.

by tmu on May 19, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

fair enough

You rec’d the “fuck you” post and then replied it’s exactly how you feel. I think you are being selective in which childish posts you are tolerating.

by wobatus on May 19, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree that "fuck you" was out of line

… of course. I do not see the rest of that post as childish mudslinging, barring those two words — unlike most of tmu’s responses, some of which are so heavily larded with gratuitous insults they’re hardly baseball-related at all.

by anonymous on May 19, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

TMU's first response

did address some baseball issues and some fandom issues.

There’s the issue of are we conditioned to hearing “Wright isn’t clutch” from FAN callers, Phils and Yank fans, and therefore perhaps overreact to valid criticism, or even if not valid?

Do we judge Wright against mere mortals or against his own God-like prior production?

Is Wright’s 40% strikeout rate merely a statistical “wonk” or pretty egregiously outside his career norm (albeit with rising walk rate AND the best HR/FB rate of his career) and sign of worse to come?

Would a rolled up print-out of this thred actually fit in anyone’s ass, let alone Squid’s?

OK, now that you mention it that was gratuitous.

by wobatus on May 19, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

OK, OK

If it helps, I should not have included the testicular or rectal references. Those could be seen as disproportionate given the initial trangression, although I will say that “fuck you” is about as in-your-face blunt as you can get. I will no longer use the Powell Doctrine when told to fornicate with myself for the sin of questioning Wright’s infallibility.

by tmu on May 19, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

And this is NOT TRUE

Look back. No ad hominem until it comes my way. Really. The issue you have is that I criticize David Wright, even though it’s pretty frigging gentle, all things considered. Read what I’ve written about him in this thread — “best player,” etc. The two biggest cuts: (1) “looks awful out there” and (2) that he’s no Chase Utley. Does he look good out there to you, what with the 40% Ks? Last night he looked awful. He’s looked awful frequently. It was the calamity howlers who chose to read into it that he “is awful” or “is having an awful year.” Read the post that started the fire and tell me it was in any way “bad behavior.” He’s not a recently deceased relative or a cult leader. It’s OK to criticize him.

by tmu on May 19, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

again, "he started it" does not excuse your subsequent bad behavior

And your pattern of escalating personal attacks and mudslinging, rather than discussing the baseball issues, is what I’m talking about here — if you haven’t noticed, this has nothing at all to do with David Wright by now, and I’d be very happy to go back to discussing baseball.

by anonymous on May 19, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

"Escalating"

is in the eye of the beholder, i.e., what you’re doing now. first post here that did not discuss baseball: yours. (OK, SuperT’s)

by tmu on May 19, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think he's saying you started it excuses it

he’s saying why aren’t you calling out squid for starting it? Why attack tmu for something initiated by another poster but ignore the other poster?

I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.

by Gina on May 19, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

because this is becoming a very predictable pattern

If squid92 had been consistently lobbing fuck-yous at people he disagreed with every time he showed up here, believe me, I’d be calling out squid92. But that’s not the pattern of problem behavior here.

by anonymous on May 19, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

The problem behavior being

disagrees with “anonymous.”

by tmu on May 19, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't really see how there's been a predictable pattern

with TMU, I don’t really think he’s been lobbying fuck yous that I can remember. And it’s not like this is the first time squid has gone off on a new poster and then tried to pull the regular vs noob card to justify it.

I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.

by Gina on May 19, 2010 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

whoa, whoa, whoa...wat

John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.

by squid92 on May 19, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Someone else pulled that card, not squid.

"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on May 19, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

my bad then

regardless, to me it’s still a bs excuse. and if you’re going to accuse one poster of a pattern then you should accuse regulars too.

I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.

by Gina on May 19, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Like I said in another post on this thread

I disagree with anonymous’ support of me that longevity precludes me from making a mistake. But at this point, I think I’ve at least apologized for it, and haven’t been escalating it further.

John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.

by squid92 on May 19, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

what?

That wasn’t me talking about tmu being new here — that was SuperT. Believe me, if a longstanding user were acting like tmu has acted, I’d respond the same way.

by anonymous on May 19, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

whoops, my mistake

John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.

by squid92 on May 19, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes

You have, and now so have I. And, to be frank, this was all laying fallow for hours before a couple of other people decided to jump into the fray and “adjudicate.”

by tmu on May 19, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.

by squid92 on May 19, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I honestly don't care.

Not you, Gina, but damn are a lot of people acting like assholes lately.

"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on May 19, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, my point was not at all, he fits in here, you don't

It was that this is a neighborhood where people debate (generally) in a congenial manner, not with the flame-fests you see in a lot of other places, and having not been here long he clearly wasn’t clued in. Squid gets cranky sometimes, and he’s been knocked for it, and we now know him to be a reasonable guy who will back off when he’s a bit out there.

tmu came in to the site in the first place, if I recall correctly, guns blazing, and has been in a lot of this kind of shit since, in only a number of weeks.

I don’t like sites with a lot of flaming. It’s tiresome. I don’t want this site to turn into that.

by SuperT on May 19, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

when I joined last year (I had some back and forth with FKA “Meddler” on minorleagueball, and I think he clued me in to this site) I immediately stepped on toes. I got the usual “that’s not fanpost-worthy” “don’t criticize Voltron” “go learn about UZR” and I think Squid called me a moron or something. Baptism by fire. And I likely deserved all of it. Some people react to it differently. When in Rome.

by wobatus on May 19, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I guess everyone gets the "not fanpost-worthy", "go learn about UZR" and finally "SSS" after the first comments.

I guess that’s part of the process. We could rephrase those in a more respectful, instructive and constructive manner, like linking to the guides and stat primers.

In lobby campaign for Chris Carter.

by Michkin on May 19, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, I got that too

There’s learning the basics, and then there’s the personalities. I bet Squid and TMU get on famously from now on.

by wobatus on May 19, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

But you're talking substance,

with needing to know the UZR and that Beltran is a god. Those are factual things.

This guy is not an idiot, and even witty from time to time. I just wish he weren’t so freaking eager to go off on people.

by SuperT on May 19, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I had

a Voltron appreciation deficit that started when he was on my fantasy-team in 2005. With amazing avenue’s help, I was able to acknowledge I had a problem.

On some SB baseball blogs, any mention of fantasy is a no-no.

BTW, this is similar to the stuff about Chipper on Talking Chop. He has a lifetime pass from some. Of course, he is much more in the twilight than Wright at this stage of their lives.

by wobatus on May 19, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm going to develop full on Bay hate

from having him on my team this year.

I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.

by Gina on May 19, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I knew Bay would suck

as soon as I defended him in the Bay versus Willingham thread on fangraphs.

by wobatus on May 19, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

i'm right here

John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.

by squid92 on May 19, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Buddy

take this as you will, but “rec’ing” every post that criticizes me is pathetic. As you were (i.e., snivelly.)

by tmu on May 19, 2010 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

charming

I’m so glad to see you’re moving beyond name-calling and childish taunts people. FYI, I rec comments that I think are making good points. Some of those, in this thread, happen to be critical of your behavior, since I think it’s been very childish and seems intended to incite flamewars rather than good-faith discussion. That’s all.

by anonymous on May 19, 2010 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bullcrikey

You came in, insinuated yourself into an old argument, and started a fight.

by tmu on May 19, 2010 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

eh...

not to take sides, but I think it was pretty much dissolved until your “Buddy” comment. i think everyone’s moved on. let’s move on, shall we

John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.

by squid92 on May 19, 2010 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Came in with guns blazing

Christ. Look back. I criticized Jose Reyes. Said he wasn’t “elite.” A similar storm of insults came back at me. (incidentally, how’s he doing?) I responded and then it’s all about how I’m “escalating”, etc. It’s always easy to do what you and “anonymous” have done — take the low road and then come in and tell everyone else to take the high road.

by tmu on May 19, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Finally, something good comes from this

Another rec for you Michkin, which I believe means you’re heating up, one more until you’re on fire.

by Sokojoe on May 19, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

(No subject line)

Nice.

"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on May 19, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

This actually explains a lot

Do you not see how characterizing any criticism of David Wright as “Traid David Wright” might be considered insulting?

by tmu on May 19, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think it's a direct critique of you or anyone

I think it’s just supposed to be a funny mspaint creation.

by Sokojoe on May 19, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

It is funny

although it is the meme that goes up anytime anyone has the slightest criticism of Wright, especially from someone who hasn’t “earned” that opinion it seems, or isn’t careful enough to couch it in terms of “David Wright is god, and is our best player, and I haven’t regressed all his numbers in all relevant saber categories, but….”

And even then you get posts saying “I can’t stand all this criticism of our best player, don’t you know GMJ sucks?” lit up in green. And then the replies get lit up in green, and folks get personal, rinse repeat.

So, it was a funny post, but I get TMU’s point as well, and the meme popped up before the mspaint post.

But hey, ya wanna know what team has a superstar who actually has fallen off a cliff? The Indians. Grady Sizemore wasn’t as good as Wright at his peak, but a 7 WAR guy 2 years running who was sub 2 WAR last year, and in negative territory this year before getting the knee bone bruise of death (he should consult Beltran).

I bet he has it a little easier in Cleveland. Poor Indians are going through a Mets like stretch of injuries (Cabrera and Sizemore).

Oh, and if you visit Let’s Go Tribe blog on SB Nation (not that anyone here does), they really don’t like subject lines on the posts. Bad form over there. Trust me.

by wobatus on May 20, 2010 7:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

And seriously

“Fuck you”, he says. And I’m “coarsening the environment”????

by tmu on May 19, 2010 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Hey, I admitted I was a bit too agressive.

You’re the one still raging on about “bottom bunks” and such.
And while I don’t necessarily agree that I have any sort of longevity that makes my points automatically valid, but in a certain sense, it’s probably not the right move to alienate people and take these posts with such a vitriolic response.

John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.

by squid92 on May 19, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

You didn't accuse me of "coarsening"

this guy did. I have no idea who he is, if he knows you, etc., but he’s treating the frigging comments section of a blog like a fraternity that you need to “rush.” There was absolutely no need for him to jump in, but he seems to relish the opportunity. It would all be better if we could focus on baseball. Colorful language is fine and liberating and all that, but directing it at others without provocation isn’t particularly mature. Is all.

by tmu on May 19, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

Don't know him from Adam

but whenever I see a pissing contest here lately, you’re in it. You could tone it down.

by SuperT on May 19, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yep

Saying “fuck you” in response to your comment was totally out of line.

by James Kannengieser on May 19, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ease up

Wright was the 64th best position player in baseball last year. Right in between Eric Aybar and Nate McLouth. Strictly by fangraphs WAR ranking.

This year he is 25th. He was 2nd in 2007 and 3rd in 2008.

He is striking out at a much higher rate than he used to. I don’t think most folks here doubt he is the Mets best player. I don’t think just because you are the best player means you should be beyond reproach. Personally, I think his approach last night in the 9th was off, but as Hanley Ramirez might say, I never played the game at the major league level.

by wobatus on May 19, 2010 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

David is on a pace to strikeout 225x this season.This is alarming!!

How about Billy Wagner hitting 100MPH on the gun.His surgeon will be busy for the foreseeable future and rightfully so.

by Putnan Prince on May 18, 2010 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why speak when you have nothing to say?

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on May 19, 2010 6:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

I can and do blame fans for worrying about Wright

And if he continues to OPS over .900, I could really give a shit how “awful” he supposedly looks.

by anonymous on May 18, 2010 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

His OPS is under .900 now

and he has a 26/7 K/BB rate this month, compared to 26/21 in April

It’s fucking bullshit that fans aren’t allowed to get worried when our best hitter is on a 200 K pace

There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ

The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?

by Syler on May 19, 2010 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

And he also doesn't have nearly the power of Howard or Reynolds

So it’s going to affect him more so unless he continues his walk rate, which would be a career high

There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ

The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?

by Syler on May 19, 2010 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

Howard has 4 consecutive 40 HR seasons and Reynolds hit 44 last year

Wright’s career high is 33, and I can’t say I expect him to reach 40 this year

There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ

The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?

by Syler on May 19, 2010 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

if Wright played 81 home games in a more reasonable stadium

he’d probably be projected to get 40 this season.

I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.

by Gina on May 19, 2010 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Does Wright play in a Little League stadium?

John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.

by squid92 on May 19, 2010 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

Reynolds had more 6 HRs on the road last year in the same number of ABs

And Howard has had virtually the same numbers on the road as at home

Career Home SLG%: .579
Career Road SLG%: .582

Career HRs on Road: 119
Career HRs at Home: 110

He also has 79 doubles on the road compared to 64 at home

There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ

The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?

by Syler on May 19, 2010 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

yeah dude

wrights slugging .606 on the road so far. So I’m pretty sure the point still stands.

I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.

by Gina on May 19, 2010 2:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Right, but his career slugging percentage is .25 points LOWER on the road than at home

His career OPS on the road is also under .900

There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ

The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?

by Syler on May 19, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah but we're talking about this season

his career k rate is lower to but that’s irrelevant. You said he didn’t have the power to match those high K guys, which is wrong, because this year he does.

I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.

by Gina on May 19, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

His hr/fb rate is 22%

Well higher than his best season. But of course last year was much lower than his worst season.

Could come with a changed approach. Swinging harder, less contact than his normal rate, but higher walk rate and much higher k rate.

Swinging harder, if that’s what he is doing, in general is fine. But not what the situation (and not the NJ Shore dude) called for with a runner at third and less than one out. But hell, it’s Wags, ya gotta swing hard just to catch up I suppose.

by wobatus on May 19, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

You "blame" fans for worrying about Wright?

I could see blaming fans for blaming Wright, but for worrying about him? That’s ridiculous. Some of us worry because we want David to be the mega-star he can be. Positive comparisons to the rest of the roster are irrelevant.

by Pack Bringley on May 19, 2010 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

look, people can worry about whatever they want

But I have to say I still think Wright is about the last thing that should be keeping a Mets fan up at night, and the disproportionate attention to his K rate is just a distraction from the fact that he’s still performing at a very high level.

by anonymous on May 19, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

this I agree with

and is my overall problem with the wright complaints. Even if his K rate is high it basically means maybe instead of a 7 WAR player he’ll be a 6.5 WAR player. There’s just no reason to constantly complain about him when there’s so many players on this team actually worth complaining about.

I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.

by Gina on May 19, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

There are other players on the Mets?

Could have fooled me.

"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on May 19, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes like Jason Bay

who’s only hope was to be worth his contract this year and next, and now it doesn’t even seem like that will happen.

I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.

by Gina on May 19, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bay's streaky

and he’s at .350 wOBA, so there’s time yet.

by wobatus on May 19, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

he's streaky

but like someone mentioned yesterday he’d have to hit a homer every 4 games just to break 30. Zips ROS has already downgraded his season line. There’s more to it at this point than just streaky.

And that being said, why can’t the “there’s time yet” be applied ot wright the?

I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.

by Gina on May 19, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not advocating bashing one or saving the other, but

Strikeout rates stabilize earlier than slugging:
150 PA: Strikeout Rate
500 PA: OBP, SLG, OPS

In lobby campaign for Chris Carter.

by Michkin on May 19, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

He's doing some other things well,

so even if his home run rate picks up to near career average the rest of the way the season won’t be a total disaster.

Citi has some effect, although his road numbers aren’t great either.

Also, Wright had no home runs in April 2007. This is a longer stretch, but Bay also hit only 1 home run over a 32 game stretch last year (from June-August, with only 1 homer in July). So, he does have to pick it up, but league switch, playing at Citi instead of Fenway, etc., it isn’t that out of the ordinary.

by wobatus on May 19, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah he's also hitting a lot more doubles and triples

it looks like, so it might just be the parks affecting his power numbers.

I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.

by Gina on May 19, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

He's on a 5.6 pace or so

And he used to be 8 in 2007-8. Not making too big of a deal. he is halfway back from last year. Maybe once reyes gets his sealegs back and Beltran comes back he’ll go all 8 WAR again.

by wobatus on May 19, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah but the thing is

Players fluctuate all the time, who actually maintains 7-8 WAR value every year, Pujols and maybe Utley? Not many players, especially not as young as Wright still is. Not to mention just like Bay he could go on a 10 game hot streak and suddenly be back to projected to a 7 WAR player on the season. People are making massive mountains out of mole hills, and then attempting to use an extremely small SSS, as justification. Which is ridiculous when there’s so many things on this team that are actually concering.

I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.

by Gina on May 19, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think so

He is hitting to a .384 wOBA. Worse than his 2007-8, but not by much. The added weight is from the walks, which is nice. The question will be if his hr/fb is sustainable, since it is much higher than even his pre-2009 power outage.

And concern about his approach with a runner at 3rd with less than 2 outs in a tie game in the 9th (which is a bigger issue to me personally) doesn’t have much to do with his overall numbers.

No, he isn’t the problem with the Mets.

by wobatus on May 19, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not to mention as far as I can tell

he’s being projected downward, from his 07,08 WAR, because of his uzr not because of his hitting.

I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.

by Gina on May 19, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

On the bright side

Wright is playing better than last year. He was a mid-3 WAR player with no power. Maybe he over-compensated to get the power back up. A 5-6 WAR player is very good, but Wright in 2007-2008 was an 8 WAR player.

Maybe we should look at it as he is halfway back, and he’s doing it with Bay being so-so and Reyes not being Reyes and Beltran gone.

by wobatus on May 19, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jerrys managing

has cost this team though. My old man hasn’t really watched baseball since the mid 80s cards and whenever he sees the mets he complains about JM overmanaging. My damn phillipino girlfriend who never watched a non-yankee baseball game in her life before we met (and that was extremely rare too) asked me why Manuel bunts so much. He played Jacobs and GMJ together at the beginning of the year. He has our best hitter hitting 5th. He takes out our supposed three hitter for GMJ. He uses a PH to bunt and then wonders why we run out of position players by the 9th. He has given cora and Castillo more ABs than Bay and Wright. He has used Nieve everyday and already burnt him out. He forced Mejia up. What more is there to complain about the guy?

by MetsKnicksRutgers on May 18, 2010 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

and before Carter with no bemch would still pinch hit in the 5th

Maybe the hitters are messed up because there as confounded by Jerry as we are
Imagine his instructions
Well try to bunt exept if the left foot is 2 inches behind inbetween the right

by Sir Tmac on May 18, 2010 11:18 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Filipino?

impress her tonight by spelling it right!

I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya

by itsmetsforme on May 18, 2010 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

well i'll take your word for it

I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya

by itsmetsforme on May 18, 2010 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

damnit

it’s what she said, i won’t claim to know the exact nature. she said using “f” is more common

by MetsKnicksRutgers on May 18, 2010 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

i've never seen it properly spelled that way before, but if she says so

since i was just busting your balls. mostly cuz you said my “damn” girlfriend

I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya

by itsmetsforme on May 18, 2010 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

she's a yankee fan

If my girlfriend were a yankee fan, she’d be my “damn” girlfriend, too.

by CaptainSpaulding on May 18, 2010 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

aye aye

captain

I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya

by itsmetsforme on May 18, 2010 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

well

it was the filipino part also. not many little flip girls are into baseball. basketball and boxing (now) i’d understand but she literally knows zero about baseball yet understands the stupidity in giving away outs when you have about 3 left.

by MetsKnicksRutgers on May 19, 2010 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

starting?

where the hell have you been the last 3+ years?

2009 Did Not Happen

by cjmulrain on May 18, 2010 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

i can feel it coming

we’re going to offer wright for oswalt and put murphy at third.

of course then Wade’s going to turn it down and everyone’s going to be confused.

I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.

by Gina on May 18, 2010 10:33 PM EDT reply actions  

this

I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.

by Gina on May 18, 2010 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

rec'd

most important thing this season, IMO

by CaptainSpaulding on May 18, 2010 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

i'm more annoyed that Bay wasn't in the starting lineup

"I only wanted a few things out of life -- a wife, children, to play baseball and to hunt deer." - Turk Wendell

by Rey-O on May 18, 2010 10:38 PM EDT reply actions  

this is indeed a troubling universe.

"If they want to pay me like Mike Gallego, I’ll play like Gallego."

by Juve1899 on May 18, 2010 10:41 PM EDT reply actions  

An admitted second guess on my part,

but if Jerry knew he was gonna PH for Carter, why didn’t he just wait to use Bay in the 9th inning?

There may be sunny days ahead.

by Brian. on May 18, 2010 10:42 PM EDT reply actions  

definetly

should have saved Bay for Wagner

by CaptainSpaulding on May 18, 2010 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Over/Under

on changing to Rays Avenue? I will put it at after the amatuer draft

by MetsKnicksRutgers on May 18, 2010 10:47 PM EDT reply actions  

PIRATES!

I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.

by Gina on May 18, 2010 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I could go with them

but they suck too. The only “benefit” is the lack of emotional investment.

"Never throw a slider to The Glider."

- Ed Charles, No. 5

by The Glider on May 18, 2010 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

MARINERS!....erm, scratch that

There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ

The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?

by Syler on May 18, 2010 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Their odds for the World Series are getting

better and better. I put some money on them this week. Along with the Mets and Rangers. All other bets are unattractively pedestrian in my view.

by deadspy3 on May 18, 2010 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

TIGERS!

"Never throw a slider to The Glider."

- Ed Charles, No. 5

by The Glider on May 18, 2010 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

GIANTS

Originally from NY. We played in the Polo Grounds for 2 years. They have good pitching.

"Never throw a slider to The Glider."

- Ed Charles, No. 5

by The Glider on May 18, 2010 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Screw the Giants.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on May 18, 2010 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

LOL

"Never throw a slider to The Glider."

- Ed Charles, No. 5

by The Glider on May 18, 2010 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

so to talk about something happier

in case anyone was wondering red dead redemption is glorious.

I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.

by Gina on May 18, 2010 10:51 PM EDT reply actions  

yeah it's awesome

im trying to track a cougar as we type

I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.

by Gina on May 18, 2010 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Them damn cougers

I’m just running along at a slow pace trying to hook up with my posse. Then BAM! COUGER ATTACK! I had no chance against three of them

I support Jenrry Mejia as a starter. Screw you Jerry Manuel for thinking he's a set-up man.

by EMSfan9 on May 18, 2010 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

wait

are you talking about the game, or making a euphemism about being picked up by older women?

2009 Did Not Happen

by cjmulrain on May 18, 2010 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

umm....

I plead the fifth.

I support Jenrry Mejia as a starter. Screw you Jerry Manuel for thinking he's a set-up man.

by EMSfan9 on May 18, 2010 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

im definitely talking about a game

if an older woman tried to pick me up I’d be highly disturbed.

I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.

by Gina on May 18, 2010 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

yep they always attack in groups too

I kill one and the other one revenge kills me. they’re the only things i haven’t been able to successfully hunt.

I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.

by Gina on May 18, 2010 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

definitely getting that game at some point

probably gonna wait till I buy a PS3 for it, though (yes, I’m “converting” – still gonna have my Xbox and will use it, but the PS3 will become the “centerpiece”)

2009 Did Not Happen

by cjmulrain on May 18, 2010 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I pre ordered it...should be coming soon.

John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.

by squid92 on May 18, 2010 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

I only played about a half hour, but it’s awesome. How’s the multiplayer? Didn’t try that yet.

by Evan_S on May 19, 2010 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

I have no idea

no lie like 30 minutes after i turned it on my psn went down. I have no idea if it’s back up yet.

I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.

by Gina on May 19, 2010 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

After you get shot and wake up on the ranch, my PSN went out too.

by Evan_S on May 19, 2010 1:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

yeah but mine hasn't come back in

i can’t even connect now.

I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.

by Gina on May 19, 2010 2:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

which is pissing me off

cause I can’t go too long without syncing my trophies.

I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.

by Gina on May 19, 2010 2:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

Here's what I don't get about the Jerry or the Players debate?

I spent my time in business and there was a simple rule of management: if one person is performing below reasonable expectations, the it’s probably that person; if a group of people is performing below expectations, they are probably being managed incorrectly. It’s a matter of analyzing 24 people versus a few. A corollary of the law of large numbers indicates that a group will likely not get worse together unless they are being deployed incorrectly, and Jerry has been using the doctor as the village idiot for a while. So yeah, they have been underperforming (or at least a large cohort have) but this still should not deflect the blame from management. Also, mistakes tend to fall out of the mind’s eye when, say, the good guys have a few run lead in the 9th, as opposed to the game being tied by prior errors in management and deployment.
“You see Bob, it’s not that I’m lazy, it’s that I just don’t care.”
“Don’t… don’t care?”
“It’s a problem of motivation.”

by MookieTheCat on May 18, 2010 11:21 PM EDT reply actions  

Bright side:

the Phillies lost to the Pirates, and Octavio Dotel closed it out.

2009 Did Not Happen

by cjmulrain on May 19, 2010 12:26 AM EDT reply actions  

I have no problem with GMJ sacrificing there

because he is freaking terrible and unfortunately with him being the only available option, that was the smart play.

Wait, what? Fernando Tatis was still available? Rod Barajas too? Cora even?

Screw you, Jerry.

Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but Jerry abuses the privilege.

by AnthonyR on May 19, 2010 12:30 AM EDT reply actions  

Bunting a 3-1 pitch is idiotic

and it was ball 4. Jerry will never get that bunting often decreases the odds of scoring a run, we need to give up that battle.

by David G on May 19, 2010 2:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

don't forget it was 3-1

and he bunted ball 4 =/

I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.

by Gina on May 19, 2010 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

also he was bunting to move over

A PLAYER WHO CAN MOVE HIMSELF OVER.

thats what makes me angriest about Jerry’s insanity. Bunting over Davis or Barajas I can dig. Bunting over Jose Reyes, Castillo, Pagan should be a firable offense. Especially when you’re obsessive about putting light hitters at the top of their line up because of their speed. it makes no damn sense.

I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.

by Gina on May 19, 2010 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Gangstametrics!!

But seriously though, it’s just not good baseball sense. He had Tatis waiting on deck, he should have let him bat if he was gonna pull Carter, which I don’t think he should’ve done to begin with.

There may be sunny days ahead.

by Brian. on May 19, 2010 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

It was pinch hitting for 1 or his 3 best rbi guys

Of late granted Carter has no MLB track record but when given 4 at bats he has only missed getting a hit in a handful of games since the beginning of spring training

by Sir Tmac on May 19, 2010 8:01 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

RBI guy?

I support Jenrry Mejia as a starter. Screw you Jerry Manuel for thinking he's a set-up man.

by EMSfan9 on May 19, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Easy to blame Wright for this one

but the Mets just don’t play good fundamental baseball and Manuel doesn’t make good management decisions.
There was, for instance, no reason to pull Santana after 102 or 103 pitches. Made no sense. He’d retired 13 in a row and was in an obvious groove – pitching easy. If Blanco had reached base, okay, but with the bases empty, it was a stupid move.
This team is going nowhere, the lineup outlay sucks with raw rookies hitting third and fifth tonight. Gary Matthews hadn’t had a sacrifice bunt in SEVEN years and is hitting .173 and though it worked out (largely because the umpire missed his bunt movement on the second pitch) on this occasion, it’s just symptomatic of everything that Manuel does that’s just plain stupid.

by Southfield_2001 on May 19, 2010 1:31 AM EDT reply actions  

I blame myself

Early in the game thread I mentioned the ‘08 game where Dubs didn’t get Murphy home from third after a 3-0 count. I was only using it as an example that “an out is an out” is not a true statement. I invited bad mojo.

It’s not that Wright isn’t playing good baseball, he is. It’s that he’s 27 now, he should be at the absolute top of his skills, and he’s not as good as he was 2 years ago. He’s regressed, and if you can’t see that, sorry, you’ve got your head a little in the sand. Average righties K him so damn easy. He’s on pace for 225 Ks and only 64 extra base hits. He’s a guy that should get 75-80 at this point in his career. Keep in mind 4 of the HRs are in band boxes, and he’s only got 1 in Citi, plus 2 more in Colorado. He doesn’t play his home games where Mark Reynolds does, so those hoping for a 35-40 homer season are going to be disappointed. Only time will tell if he can keep up the power and the walk rate while the K rate continues. I really don’t think he can, but none of us know for sure. I hope to hell I’m wrong, but I think he’ll have to get the K rate down to be successful for a whole season.

by David G on May 19, 2010 2:37 AM EDT reply actions  

What's more annoying?

I propose a third answer: the fact that the entire Mets interweb has now turned into a debate on David Wright. It’s like Francoeur Avenue on crack.

"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on May 19, 2010 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

WRIGHT AVENUE

John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.

by squid92 on May 19, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

yeah

Clearly the debate of the day is, why bunt, but then again, once GMJ is up, why not? It’s a conundrum.

by wobatus on May 19, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

My only debate on GMJ:

DFA, or shoot out of a cannon?

"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on May 19, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Ha!

He’s a real puzzler, but now with Pridie and Fernando hurt we are likely stuck with him a bit longer.

by wobatus on May 19, 2010 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Betty White

would be a fine replacement for GMJ too.

by wobatus on May 19, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dude,

GMJ is playing like Betty White out there!

There may be sunny days ahead.

by Brian. on May 19, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree, the backlash can get out of hand (of course, I've already shown that)

but that’s exactly what it is: backlash, a response. And it’s not like it was instantaneous or anything. The backlash has built for years, while people continuously spew inordinate fallacies that just simply aren’t true.

John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.

by squid92 on May 19, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

David is 37-86 when he hits the ball- .420

that Matt Cain bean ball really has screwed him up

by Rickfansince76 on May 19, 2010 2:10 PM EDT reply actions  

Huh?

"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on May 19, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't think

just feel the statement. What does it mean? What doesn’t it mean?

by wobatus on May 19, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

We had a 3-2 loss last week

And I made a Pluto Nash recap picture, just to make sure the Nickelback one isn’t overplayed.

by James Kannengieser on May 19, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm looking for Scott Stapp

But we haven’t been no-hit yet.

by tmu on May 19, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

I haven't seen the

car in roof since April.

There may be sunny days ahead.

by Brian. on May 19, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

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