Phillies 11, Mets 5: Hello Again, Second Place
by Eric Simon on May 2, 2010 11:04 PM EDT
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Baseball can humble you in a hurry. Two days ago the Mets were on a 10-1 streak and a game-and-a-half up in the NL East. Now they've lost two straight by a combined score of 21-5, they've watched their two best starter get roughed up something fierce, and they're now back in second place, riding bitch once again to the Phillies.
If you haven't seen them already, prepare for the deluge of articles declaring that the Mets' preseason concerns over pitching and whatnot have suddenly reappeared. This is a trick. Unless we're talking about injuries (and I don't think we are), we don't suddenly learn anything about baseball teams. Ever. This is the same team that peeled off win after win against the Cubs, Braves, and Dodgers last week, three mediocre teams who were playing especially poorly at the time. Now they've been demolished in consecutive games by a good Phillies team which played especially well for one inning each day. We obviously can't just throw those two frames away, but if you're looking for a silver lining it's that Mike Pelfrey and Johan Santana each let an inning get away from him, and that in the other 16 innings the Mets were still outscored, but only by a margin of 6-5, which, for whatever it's worth, is only enough to lose one game of the two.
Neither Pelfrey nor Santana was as good as he looked through four starts, nor was he as bad as he looked this weekend. Forget about the last two weeks, good and bad, because this team still has a bunch of problems that aren't going away. Two-fifths of their rotation are massive question marks. Luis Castillo has been terrible, while the Mets are basically throwing away roster spots on Gary Matthews Jr. and Frank Catalanotto, whose collective usefulness as baseball players is rapidly approaching zero. The bullpen isn't nearly as good as people seem to think. Raul Valdes leads that group with a 3.75 strikeout-to-walk ratio. Guess what these numbers are.
6.28
5.91
5.54
7.59
4.09
7.20
Give up? Those are the respective walk rates of Hisanori Takahashi, Francisco Rodriguez, Fernando Nieve, Pedro Feliciano, Jenrry Mejia, and Manny Acosta. The relief corps is held together with chicken wire and duct tape, and when it eventually implodes -- I'm betting sooner rather than later -- we'll get to hear about that as well.
Instead of trying to regain the form of the team that looked unbeatable against a slew of also-rans, the Mets should take this weekend as a wake-up call and realize that things are not all good, that they have serious deficiencies in multiple areas, and that they had better address them sooner rather than later if they want to capitalize on an opportunity to sneak through the postseason back door in a very underwhelming (at least so far) National League. I'm no genius, but start with a few low-level moves that will improve the team in measurable ways.
- Jettison, maim, or otherwise dispose of the dried-up carcasses of Gary Matthews and Frank Catalanotto. Replace with Jason Pridie and Mike Hessman/Chris Carter.
- Dump Manny Acosta and demote Jenrry Mejia to Double-A. Call up Kiko Calero and RA Dickey, the latter of which should be the first option if (when?) John Maine and/or Oliver Perez are ousted from the rotation.
- Seriously consider signing Pedro Martinez, not because of nostalgia but because he's probably better than some other options the Mets have (and might be better than Maine/Perez right now).
None of these moves represents a panacea, but they should each provide at least incremental improvements over the current roster. One of the most important things a general manager can do is to recognize shortcomings before they manifest in disastrous ways, which isn't necessarily mutually exclusive with "riding the hot hand". It means being realistic when overperformers begin to regress, and to move quickly to replace them instead of naively hoping they will regain that artificially inflated level of performance.
Don't misconstrue these ramblings as just another reactionary Henny Penny routine. The salient points here are: 1) things haven't suddenly gotten worse, just as 2) things aren't likely to suddenly get better (though a few wins against the so-so Reds could give that appearance). Be smart, be far-sighted, be proactive.
Beer of the game: Hopsecutioner India Pale Ale by Terrapin Beer Co., Athens, Ga.
Poem by Howard Megdal
Santana long balls hurt Mets from the start
Though Barajas and Wright did their part
How can Wright ever be thought as a hero
If Met pitchers won't back long ball with a zero
Johan is usually cause for fan zen
But not on a night that he's given up ten
SB Nation Coverage
* Amazin' Avenue Gamethread
* The Good Phight Gamethread
Win Probability Added
Big winners: David Wright, +21.9% WPA, Rod Barajas, +18.2% WPA
Big losers: Johan Santana, -71.9% WPA, Gary Matthews Jr., -7.3% WPA
Teh aw3s0mest play: right three-run home run in first, +24.0% WPA
Teh sux0rest play: Victorino grand slam in fourth, -37.3% WPA
Total pitcher WPA: -73.3% WPA
Total batter WPA: +23.3% WPA
GWRBI!: Shane Victorino
Game Thread Roll Call
Nice job by Gina; his effort in the game thread embiggens us all.
| Num | Name | # of Posts |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Gina | 112 |
| 2 | KeithsMoustache | 82 |
| 3 | Jadden Hopkins | 76 |
| 4 | Syler | 75 |
| 5 | LOUtheMETandNATSfan | 71 |
| 6 | Brian. | 71 |
| 7 | blueandorange4life | 66 |
| 8 | fxcarden | 59 |
| 9 | Stargazey | 58 |
| 10 | itsmetsforme | 58 |
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Comments
Forget the debacle and take the series in Cincinnati
Things will be much better if they can do that
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?
Exactly
Looks bad now, but it won’t be nearly as bad if we get up off the mat and take the Reds.
KILL SHANE VICTORINO
by Thomas Wachtel on May 2, 2010 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions
You're right
And I LOVE your picture. My second favorite game of 2008 was the game where Delgado drove in 2 in the 8th to take a 3-1 lead. David was PUMPED. So great.
Happy memories.
Trying to believe is my full-time occupation.
Very much so
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on May 3, 2010 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Why?
Because the Mets lost two of three at the dcefending NLK champs’ “park”?
That’s called baseball.
by CaptainSpaulding on May 3, 2010 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Not the fact that we lost (that happens); they way in which we lost was quite disheartening
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on May 3, 2010 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions
So, should I celebrate or dwell on it?
I’m just forgetting them, a good route to go.
Darrelle Revis once won a game of Connect Four in three moves.
im (generally) not one to over react when watching on tv
but holy crap did i spaz out when santana walked jamie moyer. i also dont like the kind of reasoning i’m about to use here but THAT TYPE OF PERFORMANCE IS INEXCUSABLE FOR A GUY MAKING 20 MILLION PLUS A YEAR…. INEXCUSABLE.
pant pant pant
INEXCUSABLE SANTANA…
act like a professional why dont you?
HELLO HELLO MR WILPON... BUY THAT MANSION. WE DONT NEED A CONDO.
I would agree too
if he wasn’t throwing strike after strike…
Maybe it was just my eyes
but almost all of the pitches to Moyer were in the dirt or out of the zone
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?
meh I'm looking at gameday
Ruiz I can see he was getting squeezed but they were all borderline even on gameday. And there was really only one pitch in the at bat vs Moyer that was borderline and didn’t go his way.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
he had that issue last year
didn’t he walk the pitcher a couple of times last year? Early in the year he had a walk fest against the Nats.
I was at the game when he gave up a grand slam to Felix Hernandez.
Anyone remember that? Shit happens. I just would’ve expected him to come out after he walked Moyer. We still woulda won.
by Brooklyn Tar Heels on May 3, 2010 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
I saw
Seaver give up a grand slam to Burt Hooten on tv once.
Yeah, i recall the Hernandez grand slam. Maybe that was in the back of his mind. He generally has such good control, maybe it just sticks out that he has walked 3 or so pitchers the last couple of years I think. And it looks like the ump’s zone was a little high yesterday. Not meaning to overanalyze that one at-bat.
I understand that shit happens. A lot more shit happens when your K rate is down and you are a flyball pitcher. Until last night his K rate seemed ok this year. It is just that the velocity downtrend and overall K downtrend has been fairly steady the last few years.
Even at 89 mph he can be succesful. He has shaken this type of stuff off before. But I do not expect the Johan of 5-6 years ago overall. And I suspect the Phils knew what was coming a bit yesterday. Maybe Schneider tipped them to something, although this goes back to last year.
For those who are curious about those 2 BB:
I don’t know where the 3rd pitch against Moyer went.
Looking at the normalized strikezone, he wasn’t going to call any of those low strikes.
In lobby campaign for Chris Carter.
by Michkin on May 3, 2010 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ouch.
He was being pinched. At least the ump was consistently pinching everyone, though.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on May 3, 2010 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I skimmed the game thread, unfortunately
And man. Does anyone here – I want to say any of you bleeping fools – believe that any of you come even close to being as angry and upset about Johan’s ptiching as he is tonight?
You know, I think that as fans, we have a job. And that’s to be on the side of our guys, regardless (unless they’re Armando Benitez or Tom Glavine). It’s hard, after our recent years, granted.
The man is a fly-ball pitcher pitching in a barbie-doll park, being squeezed, and just clearly not having anything tonight. We have all watched enough baseball to know that this happens. Great pitchers have horrid starts – just not too many of them.
You’re poor excuses, a lot of you. I’m having trouble seeing what separates this kind of crap from Yankee fans, and if there’s one thing a Mets fan should never ever be, it’s anything resembling a Yankee fan.
by SuperT on May 2, 2010 11:19 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Oh for the love of God
We’re fans, Mets fans, who have had to deal with a lot of crap the last four years.
When your $120 million ace gives up 10 runs in primetime to your loathed division rival, not everyone is going to be able to use perspective the moment it happens
Don’t act like we’re any different than any other type of sports fan.
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?
i'm sure no one is more pissed at their suckitude
than GMjr is. Should we not be mad at him either?
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
but im sure no one is more upset about his failure to put together a roster
than Omar is.
Jerry, yeah he’s just a douche.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
Why would Omar be upset?
He’s put together a roster that is perfectly capable of winning 1 game in every series
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?
Your point still holds true though Gina,
just because we love Johan doesn’t mean we can’t be mad at him for shitting the bed in the rubber game of series in Philly that we twice gave him 3 run leads.
If I go out tonight, race my friend down the highway in my dads car, total it, nobody will feel worse then me, but that doesn’t mean my dad isn’t going to chew me the fuck out when he finds me. It doesn’t mean my dad doesn’t love me.
Johan is great, we all know that, but right now I’m just really pissed off at him right now (well, not actually right now, I’ve cooled off quite a bit since the game). It doesn’t mean I want him to die, or I am wishing bad things on him, it just means I’m pissed off. Nothing more, nothing less. I will get over it by tomorrow, and I will certainly be over it when he pitches a shutout next weekend against the Giants, but right now I’m just annoyed.
So look, I don’t care about how bad Johan felt, how good he is, or any of that shit. All I know is we just lost a winnable series against the Phillies, and I’m not thrilled. I understand the season isn’t lost, and there are tons of games left. So what? What should I do, just put my thumb up my ass, say “oh well, 130 games left, I don’t care about this one.” No, because if that were my reaction, why am I a fan?
I like to think I am reasonably objective, for other teams, my own team, for any athlete. But that doesn’t always apply for the 3 hours that the game is on and the hour or so after. While I’m watching the game, I can forget that Alex Cora is just awful and shouldn’t be playing baseball professionally when he rips that double into the gap and clears the bases, for those couple of minutes. When Santana blows two different three run leads and then proceeds to allow something like 8 straight batters to reach and 10 runs to score with 2 outs, at that moment, I couldn’t care less if he is Johan Santana or Oliver Perez, I’m just fuming that this is happening. I’m not sitting and thinking, “well, am I okay with this since it is Johan and this probably will never happen again?” No, I know that to be the case, but in that moment, it doesn’t ease the pain. How could I really be a fan if I didn’t get pissed off watching our stud give up 8 two out runs in a row?
I’m pretty sure that anybody that is a Met fan, even our less evolved brethren at Metsblog, are legit Met fans who care about the team. Why would we be rooting for this team after all they have put us through if we didn’t care? I also am pretty sure that you guys here are some of the more reasonable, logical, intelligent Met fans that are out there, having been reading stories and comments here for a couple years now. And I say this (lol), but even the most logical, intelligent human beings are still just human beings. We can get emotional because we care about this team so much, even though we didn’t expect much this year, they have started hot, and we put logic to the side temporarily to root for our team, I’m sure everybody would love to have this team prove us wrong, and after getting our hopes up a little, they just disappointed us a little bit tonight. That’s all.
What I’m saying is, SuperT, I think you should step down from your pedestal my friend, people were mad at Johan, said some unreasonable shit. Get over it. 90 percent of the people here know how great Johan is and those comments were out of frustration more then anything else, and that is fine, they are allowed to vent. Calling people “poor excuses” and “bleeping fools” because they are mad at a pitcher who gave up 10 runs in 3 and 2/3 comes off as condescending and just douche baggy. Why does it matter whether it was Johan or not? People would have been just as mad at John Maine or Oliver Perez, the fact that it was our star Johan makes it that much worse actually. The talented kid is always the one coach is hardest on, that kind of thing. We feel let down that our big man got his ass handed to him for the country to see by the big, bad, Phillies. We will get over it, but we wouldn’t be Met fans if we didn’t care.
What is also interesting to me is that you seem to be okay with certain players being trashed, as long as they live up to your standard of trashing. Would you hate Tom Glavine if he didn’t get lit up on the last day of 2007? Would you hate Benitez if he didn’t blow 100 playoff games and give up 20 HR to the late 90’s Braves?
We’re mad at Johan, that’s all. Maybe not even mad, just disappointed, temporarily. I think if anybody is out of line, it is you, calling people sorry excuses and fools, because you don’t like the way they criticized a guy, while you then provide examples of people it is okay to bash, based on your own reasons for not liking a guy. Get over yourself.
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
by nrmax88 on May 3, 2010 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
very well done, and rec'd
I had in mind a fanpost of some sort about this kind of thing. It bugs me that we can’t be pissed when bad things happen without being called traitors or fair weather fans etc.
Also, I can be mad about Johan giving up a GS with 2 outs to Dicktorino and still remember that this is only one game. The two things are not mutually exclusive. Even so, its ok to scream invective at your tv (or in your game thread as the case may be). Being a “good” fan does not mandate 100% objectivity, or any other sort of arbitrary test about what it means to support your team
"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage
by blueandorange4life on May 3, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Very well done.
Just one question……what kind of car does your dad have ?. Just trying to determine the level of hurt he would put on you.
you know what I'm sayin' ?
hypoctritical post
“And that’s to be on the side of our guys, regardless (unless they’re Armando Benitez or Tom Glavine”
you’re saying that we should root for our players unless they give up a lot of runs, or they suck? so then where’s the regardless part?
Dude, humor alert
Some guys try your patience to the point that it breaks, it just does. And some people reveal that they never did give much of a shit about your team, really, but hey ho, it’s not like we’re talking about kids with cancer!
I don’t expect to ever be anything but irrational on the subject of Tom Glavine. That’s just how it is.
Right,
and I don’t ever expect to be anything but irrational when our ace pitcher blows a pair of 3 run leads against the Phillies, matched up against Jamie Moyer, and proceeds to give up 10 runs in 3+ in the rubber game against Philly on national TV.
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
at least while
he is in the middle of giving up those 8 runs in a row. Right now, I’m fine, I’ve stepped back from everything and calmed down a lot, but as Victorino’s then Utley’s line drives were flying out of the park, I was pretty goddamn irrational.
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
there's people on this site who dont believe we should ever boo players regardless of what they do, because they are trying as hard as they can
frankly i find that to be nonsense.
"I only wanted a few things out of life -- a wife, children, to play baseball and to hunt deer." - Turk Wendell
That's not the reason.
There’s a difference between being unhappy with a bad performance and booing.
Perhaps today is a good day to die.
-Klingon proverb
by Thomas Wachtel on May 3, 2010 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions
yep
and most of these people booing should look in the mirror
by CaptainSpaulding on May 3, 2010 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Give me $23 million and I’ll be upset too.
Otherwise it’s just entertainment and believe me it’s not my job. It doesn’t put the food on the table. So take a deep breath and calm down. It’s just baseball and games like these occur from time to time and fans will be fans (unless you’re a Cubs fan and wear losing like it’s a badge of honor).
Now if I remember correctly Santana pitched very well in the Hubert H. Humphrey Homer Dome so the small ballpark should not be an issue. The Phillies have a strong offensive ballclub (in more ways than one) and they put a hurt on Santana tonight. Remember, though, the bull, he does not always lose.
I am not mad at him,
but he isn’t a great pitcher anymore, or at least not as great as he was. Very good, sure. And I don’t blame it on one start.
A couple of things.
One, the Phils may have a read on Johan. Since his start against them in the game before his Yankee beatdown from last year in June last year, he has given up more than 1 home run in a game only 4 times. 3 of those by the Phils. They hit 4 against him at Citifield last year as well, which we know is no bandbox.
There may be nothing to that, since the Phils pack some power.
More relevantly, even tossing out that Yankee game last year and the Philly game last night, his strikeout rate in the games in between, 17 starts overall, is 6.26/9. Sure, he was injured, and he picked it up to start this year, but that’s below his career rate and he’s been trending down the last few years. The BB rate was still a stingy 2.42/9 and the HR rate .78/9. So he pitched well, tossing out his worst starts.
Now, add in the starts against Philly last night and on June 9, 2009, and the Yankee start on June 14, 2009, and his K rate is 5.87/9, the walk rate 2.65/9, and the HR rate 1.32/9. The HR rate may be unlucky, but a flyball pitcher with a k rate below 6 will suffer some tough nights. Philly isn’t the only bandbox in baseball, and again, the Phils hit 4 against him at citifield as well.
Of course, I am concentrating on his worst stretch, bracketed by his 3 worst starts. Bad signs were there when he walked 6 against the Nats on May 27, 2009. He was probably hurt almost all year. There were issues about his health even in spring training in 2009.
His fastball velocity has been trending down in orderly fashion for several, and he was injured last year of course, and the fastball is now a tick below 90 on average. His K rates have similarly declined in orderly fashion. Naturally, his xFIPs have also declined in orderly fhasion 6 years running.
None of this makes me angry. He’s human. He may figure out a new wrinkle and come back better than ever. But it is completely normal for him to decline somewhat. You can see it pretty clearly, without even referencing last night’s game.
I wasn't at all talking about reasoned dicussion of Johan's pitching,
which is pretty clearly not what it once was. I was referring to throwing tantrums and talking shit about your star pitcher because Santa Clause isn’t going to let you have this series against the Phils.
apologies
You are right. I went off on a tangent and just used your post as a starting point.
I actualy missed a lot of the thread during that meltdown. My wife said stop watching the game for a few minutes and play with your daughter. After 10-15nutes or so I checked back. All the runs scored pretty much in that small stretch. It was 5-2 and suddenly it was 11-5.
Jon Niese >Johan Santana
by Blame-everyone-else on May 2, 2010 11:19 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
as the penultimate gamethread commenter said:
“I’m sure Angel and Ike wouldn’t have helped at all”
Everytime GMJr did his automatic out thing, it made an unbearable game even more unbearabler
When Barakas hit his HR
and that inning was wrapping up, I thought, “cool! And we cleared the leadoff spot!” Sad but true.
by Pack Bringley on May 3, 2010 2:01 AM EDT up reply actions
The only question I have about Santana is 'Is he healthy"?
If yes, then he will be fine, notwithstanding tonight
unfortunately with this team
that’s a major question. is he mets healthy or healthy healthy.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
He was really missing his spots
Even when he was getting outs Barajas was getting his mitt pulled every which way.
by Pack Bringley on May 3, 2010 2:03 AM EDT up reply actions
yes but
He was missing them high and his elbow looked like it could not follow through properly. That is what concerns me. If he is feeling pain in that elbow, it would,sadly, explain why his pitches are drifting upwards in the zone,
Oh well. There's plenty of time left and it's not like the Phillies are playing great baseball themselves right now so I'm not going to call the season over already.
Fuck Philadelphia though.
We the game out of reach and the team deflated
why use your “A” bullpen of Tak, Felicino, and Nieve without a lead. Why not throw Mejia in there to eat some innings. Manuel doesn’t trust him with leads anyways unless its a blow out. He could’ve the very least saved and inning from TAK and Nieve.
Jerry Logic
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on May 3, 2010 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Dude, there are defenite bullpen roles
Nieve is our “everyday guy”
Mejia is our “blowout protector”
Feliciano is our “everyday guy emeritus”
Igarashi is our “other Japanese guy”
etc.
Tai’d appearance was a shocker, since he is our 5th starter, though Ollie puts in some relief work at the start of the games Tak pitches.
by Pack Bringley on May 3, 2010 2:30 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Because
You play. to win. The game. How was it “out of reach” when Tak2 entered? Lord, if you managed your bullpen accordign to those win probabilities against your archrival in a park like CBP, you’d be out of a job faster than Bud Harrelson.
by tmu on May 3, 2010 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Except
I think Jenrry is better than those guys. And even if you assume Nieve is your high leverage reliever, he was used in a pretty low leverage situation. I didn’t have much problem with Tak pitching long relief. And perhaps he just wanted to get Nieve (ha ha) and K-Rod some work. But if they have a few close games in a row with cincy those guys will get plenty of work. It is a long season.
Not a big deal. I may have just gone to Acostalypse Now for a 3rd straight game, or Jenrry for an inning since he had only gone once in 5 days, if like Jerry I had made him a low leverage guy.
So this is Jerry's logic
Hope and Pray to get 5+ innings from a starter then its Neive, Tak, Feliciano and K-Rod EveryNight regardless of the score. That’s insane. And if it was god managing and the series was so important then why start Tatis and GMJ. Its not logical to keep running those guys out everynight, especially in blowouts. factor in Ollie and Maine the following days. What if Ollie can’t get out of the 1st inning at Cincy then what and it can very well happen.
kind of an aside
i was going through the game thread tonight, and generally win or lose the threads are hilarious, self deprecating, and generally fun to read. however, since last season the membership on this site has exploded and the culture of the threads has changed.
tonight there was a lot of cursing, almost every other post was an F bomb…and i just couldn’t read it after a while and left the site. i’m hoping that the mods can step in like they did last year during threads when language got out of control like this.
This is a reply to the post about cursing
. . . way, way up there. Sorry. I was guilty, as well, although I stuck asterisks in my bombs. I agree with you here. There’s no rule against it, which is great, and the prerogative of the hosts, but I think folks should at least be sensitive to the fact that kids could be reading and YES, I know, they hear the cursing all the time, everywhere, but why contribute to the coarsening? That’s the same justification people use to not vote or not recycle a bottle, etc. THE CHANGE STARTS WITH YOU. Man, I feel like a slack-jawed Obama-zombie ca. 2008. I need to take a shower.
by tmu on May 3, 2010 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah
I think folks could tone it down somewhat. It just doesn’t contribute much. Sometimes folks want to vent and that’s ok. last night was a ventable event. I found the constant Morgan is an idiot commentary to be a little annoying, but I suppose folks like it. Not that he’s isn’t pretty awful.
Oh well, 99% of my gamethread are useless drivel anyway. Maybe I am going too easy on myself.
Let's be real
This game was pretty out of control. I’m not going to fault people for getting frustrated.
Perhaps today is a good day to die.
-Klingon proverb
by Thomas Wachtel on May 3, 2010 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions
no of course not
but that’s not the issue. last season was just as bad, and people were just as frustrated but the game threads weren’t this offensive.
i guess i’m in the minority when i read post after post like that, i guess i’ll have to avoid the game threads
you're not in the minority
alot of the people on this site will find a way to be negative no matter what
by CaptainSpaulding on May 3, 2010 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Like you.
You barely have any comments here, you come in the other day asking why somebody always has to argue everything (maybe it’s because you are always wrong, maybe it’s because we like to discuss baseball and challenge ourselves/eachother), telling Anonymous to get a life because you don’t like the stats he gave you, and meanwhile, it seems like if anything, you are the guy always trying to argue something.
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
Believe me
I’ve posted many comments here, and I am a positive person. I am opinionated – just like the rest of the people who post on SBNation boards. I am not trying to pick a fight with anyone, nor will I ever. Just calling it like I see it. This site is incredible, but gets watered down with all the negativity.
I’d be willing to bet there are a great many folks here who would agree with that last statement.
Everytime the Mets lose the Debbie Downer’s come out in full force. Too many people take all this way too seriously. I’m a diehard fan, but I also have a life.
I like to discuss baseball as well, nrmax88. I just like to discuss it positively.
I’m sorry I’m always wrong. I’ll work on it.
Nice sig, by the way – great movie.
by CaptainSpaulding on May 3, 2010 4:21 AM EDT up reply actions
damn man
I went to your page to try and find post nrmax88 was talking about below and saw the thread about Sweed achilles. It’s been a bad sports day.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
hello Gina
I’ve read much of your stuff here and, recently at BTSC. I always enjoy reading what you have to say.
I feel bad for Limas, but he had many chances and (wait for it) dropped them. Go Steelers!!
by CaptainSpaulding on May 3, 2010 4:13 AM EDT up reply actions
I actually couldn't stand Sweed in college and hated the pick
but it still sucks for the dude, and it sucks that we’ve gotten nothing from our second or third round choices that year.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
I thought the pick was as bad a pick as could have been made there.
Never thought he had a chance to make the team. Seems like a nice guy, just freezes in the headlights.
by CaptainSpaulding on May 3, 2010 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
there's no rule against cursing here
(and thank god for that.)
Well....
You’d love to see them win this game tonight, especially with Johan pegged to a 3-run lead twice, but you take it in stride and go out and try to win tomorrow. That’s why they play 162 games. Johan had his biggest off day ever, but even Roy will have a bad start here or there this year.
I would have signed up for 1/2 game out of first place on May 3 if it was offered on Opening Day, so I’ll take that for now. We’ll see how the Mets fare against the Phils after both teams come off tough interleague series against the Yankees and Red Sox, respectively.
I'm looking at the image up there, and...
Smithtown’s Own doesn’t look too happy. He certainly isn’t here for his on-the-field contributions, so I’m assuming he’s on the roster as one of those mystical “clubhouse chemistry” guys. He doesn’t seem to be adding to the net rejoicing and such…
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on May 3, 2010 12:35 AM EDT reply actions
that gave me a chuckle
he looks pretty sadpanda
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on May 3, 2010 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions
almost as though
he could see the future!
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on May 3, 2010 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions
And what the fuck
is Jerry looking at? Is he doing some jedi mind trick on somebody? Or is it just gangsta to not acknowledge a guy after a big home run and stare past him like he doesn’t exist.
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
Is that his hand "under" Wright's back?
If so, it looks like maybe he’s giving signals to somebody. Or, maybe he’s extending his hand in a high five, but David psyched him out and left him hanging. Knowing Jerry, I think the latter explanation is more plausible.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on May 3, 2010 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions
That would be hysterical.
If Wright hit a bomb, Jerry reached out to highfive him, Wright just openly deaded him and left him hanging, or even better, just slapped Jerry in the face on his way down the dugout steps. Jerry would probably like it, cause it would be gangsta.
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
That is gangsta.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on May 3, 2010 2:09 AM EDT up reply actions
After 25 games ... we're .5 game out of first
I’ll take that for now. I just hope our pitching holds up.
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
Not that this will calm the anger or anything, but I try to look at this from another point of view...
Zack Grienke is a better pitcher than Johan Santana. And yeah, Santana pitched badly today and lost, but Grienke pitched a gem today and lost. Oh, I know Santana has pitched gems before and lost as well, but I think Johan has a greater chance of winning any game than Grienke does, and I just find that so sad.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on May 3, 2010 1:03 AM EDT reply actions
Nope.
He’s not on my fantasy team and I’m not a Royals fan. I still find it sad though.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on May 3, 2010 2:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Thanks!
I appreciate it!
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on May 3, 2010 2:27 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm hoping
Dayton Moore sees the W-L record and decides to trade him to us for say GMJ and Maine.
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
I took positive action
and watched the game on mute. It takes a while to stop guessing at what they’re talking about, but it’s conquerable. I continue to dream of a day where there’s an option to have baseball sounds without commentary.
Or, have the commentary done by the robotic talking mouth.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on May 3, 2010 2:25 AM EDT up reply actions
You would think it would be rather easy to do, no?
I talk with people about this a lot. Baseball has a great sound do it, let us have the option to listen to the game without being force fed bullshit about how Ryan Howard is among the elite player in the game, or how Jayson Werth hitting a 20 foot groundball was the greatest thing ever because he ran outside the line instead of inside.
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
Didn't they do that a few times on SNY last year? "Silent Innings" (or Half Innings)?
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on May 3, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
yes they did
I throughly enjoyed it
"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage
by blueandorange4life on May 3, 2010 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
You know, with all the technology available to us
I’m surprised someone hasn’t started their own sports commentary live podcast or something like that.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on May 3, 2010 2:29 AM EDT up reply actions
AA should do it,
or just have a couple of AA guys announce the game on some kind of podcast, uncensored. Imagine listening to the game and hearing the announcer wonder aloud why in the fuck Alex Cora is batting second again?
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
This is why I always say off the air Gary Keith & Ron should be available for every Mets fan.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on May 3, 2010 4:34 AM EDT up reply actions
And I love the idea of picking up Pedro
when the weather heats up. I was for it last year, and definitely am for it this year. He was really good for 50 innings last year, maybe we can get 100 out of him this year.
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
so this thread wants to dismantle the team after 2 bad games
I mean Pelfrey hit a bump with 1 bad inning, and Santana seems to be bad in Philly.
The team should have been able to win with 5 runs and their ace on the mound.
Proves Halladay is the mane not Santana
Johan said he was the best in the NL at the beginning of spring training. This weekend proved other wise. Halladay completed another game. I am not looking at the stats but I think he has pitched 15+ innings more.
Now that said, Phil has a more potent lineup than the Mets.
but Halladay really knew how to pitch with a big lead, once he was up he shut down the Mets with ease. He got the shutout but was pitching to contact more. Let them hit it because 1 hit wouldnt make a difference
now some of the hits at the beginning of that 9 run debacle were off good pitches, but the 2 walks were horrible. I am still not convinced he really walked Ruiz on purpose, I think he was missing. He should have grooved 3 pitches to Moyer.
Early yet
But it’ll be interesting to see how this team handles the losses. I’m optimistic that they can win this series against the Reds.
"If they want to pay me like Mike Gallego, I’ll play like Gallego."
We only have three years of evidence
to show that they will be fine until the next “meaningful game”, at which point they will collapse like a pup tent in a thunderstorm and their “BABIP” will magically correct itself.
by tmu on May 3, 2010 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions
In the gamethreads, we are always comparing if those HR's would be out at Citi Field. Looking at hittrackeronline, all Mets HRs so far would go out on most parks, except for one. I guess that's a silver lining.
In lobby campaign for Chris Carter.
"Hit Tracker accounts for all the atmospheric factors that significantly influence the flight of a batted ball: wind, temperature, altitude and spin."
There is also Std Distance (Standard Distance) – "The estimated distance in feet the home run would have traveled if it flew uninterrupted all the way down to field level, and if the home run had been hit with no wind, in 70 degree air at sea level. " Though it seems you can’t sort the list using it.
In lobby campaign for Chris Carter.
It's unclear from that link where they get their wind data from
If it’s just the wind in the general area of the ballpark, it might not account for the supposed wind tunnels at CBP and Yankee Stadium.
Yes, probably wind speed and direction from the general area.
They can’t possibly be getting the read of those wind tunnels, too complicated task.
In lobby campaign for Chris Carter.
On the bright side
At least the drubbing allowed me to inch closer to finishing War and Peace. Only 600 pages to go, and 5 days before it’s due back.
Seriously, I turned it off once Santana walked Moyer. I knew where the game was headed right at that moment.
The real disappointment for me
was that the Mets shut down after the big Phils’ inning. They had obviously been able to hit Moyer, but after the 9 spot, it was bad ball swing after bad ball swing, and they coasted. (of course, so did the Phils.) Here’s where your “leadership” and your “grission” come into play. there’s no reason why, in that park, you can’t get runs in bunches. Can you will it to happen? No. Would rally caps and yelling help? No. But this is just another data point in a seemingly endless stream of embarrassing performances against the Phils. They’re a more talented team, sure, but with our losses to the Phillies, one frequently (which is to say, incessantly) sees the comment “it wasn’t that we lost, but how we lost.”
i always wonder
what exactly are manuel and hojo doing when they see our top hitters chasing balls and hacking at the first pitches they get. At some point shouldn’t they tell them to cut that sh*t out midgame?
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
HEY!!!
You did another asteri*k c*urse!!! Cut that sh*t out!!
I think Manuel and Hojo look at the likes of GMJ and Francoeur and just wonder “where do I start”??
yeah but Frenchy hasn't been that bad
Reyes was probably the worst offender last night.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
I mean on a scale from Castillo to Frenchy
Frenchy hasn’t been that Frenchy
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
I think HoJo is happy with Francoeur
If I read Sam’s aritcle correctly the other day it seems as if his pitch recogniition has gotten better (at least a wee bit.)
We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming
*sigh
Right out of the 2009 playbook. What is it with letting the opposing pitchers kill you? That’s been going on for over a year now.
GMjr. and Cat do have to go
and not next month, this week. There’s no reason to keep them around when you have guys like Carter, Pridie and Hessman that could come up and do the job better. They admitted their mistake with Jacobs, perhaps they are ashamed to admit more roster mistakes? That’s poor.
Omar knows he is on the hot seat
If he admits that bringing in Cat and GMJ was a mistake his already slim job security gets even slimmer or goes away entirely. On the other hand, just because they are there doesn’t mean that Jerry has to start them every day, so his job security is implicated as well, however little of it there is. Bottom line, when you have two guys facing potential unemployment in the near future, mistakes usually don’t go away until they become spectacularly bad. Right now neither of them are hitting at all, but they haven’t done anything really terrible.
One would think getting rid of Jacobs had something to do with the 1b of the future waiting in the wings; perhaps no one thinks its worth it since Carter/Pridie/Hessman are not considered long term pieces. I think that’s ridiculous, but that may be what Omar and Jerry are thinking, if they are thinking at all
"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage
by blueandorange4life on May 3, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Define "really terrible"?
Especially for Matthews. Striking out in almost half your at bats while also providing no power or a defensive upgrade is pretty terrible. It’s true that he hasn’t murdered anyone, but that would be setting the bar a little low.
is that what the mets do
set the bar incredibly low?
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
Yes.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on May 3, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry, I forgot to add, "by the Mets standards"
I mean, Jeremy Reed hung around all of last season and was just as bad if not worse.
"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage
by blueandorange4life on May 3, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
and didn't even have veteran experience
or make an awesome catch 5 years ago
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
Shattered Dreams
I liken this experience to a phobia of mine of buying a brand new car, driving it off the lot and totaling the car right in front of the dealership!
Well, I had this childhood nightmare that I would go to my first Mets game and see my favorite pitcher (whomever he may be at that time) implode.
I lived that nightmare last night.
It was my first Mets game. I was in Philly on business and I was staying at the hotel one block over and I just tried every excuse I could to stay away from that stadium, because it was, afterall, an away game. I really wanted my first game to be a home game.
So, finally, I walked over and bought a ticket. I had left my Mets hat at home, by mistake, so I was icognito. Out of respect to a tradition I have, I bought a Phillies hat at the the game, but since I hate the Phils I bought a solid black 53/Fifty NE Phillies hat and with the reputation of the Phillies fans, I just melted into the crowd.
I think that heresey (the hat) was a good thing. Because the fans around me were very, very nasty. One guy said, “Where’s a Mets fan, I want to get kicked out tonight!” I just kept my mouth shut.
It was a long game. I was so excited when Johann came to the Mets and I still am. But, in front of the 7th largest sellout crowd in Philly history, he really dropped the ball.
I was looking for a better first game Met’s experience. I guess I should have resisted and waited for a home game at Citi Field!
Wilson Hines
**CarolinaMet**
http://wilsonhines.wordpress.com
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