Oh, It's His Personality
Adam Rubin: "I will say Francoeur will get a lot of extra rope because of his personality."
That sounds like a great way to run a baseball team, evaluating based on personality rather than the steaming pile that has been his season.
almost 2 years ago
twon8
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That's not the scary part of that chat...
Doesn’t Cora’s option vest with 80 starts, not 80 appearances? It’s bad enough with 80 starts, you’re freaking me out with the 80 appearances thing
Adam Rubin (12:22 PM)
I asked Alex yesterday, and he confirmed to me it’s 80 appearances for the contract to vest for 2011 — not 80 starts. And that’s exactly how the Associated Press carried the terms of the contract originally when he signed it.
Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...
Well I know I've got my Cora Voodoo doll and am doing all i can to tear his acl.
but seriously, maybe a Castillo DL/Tejada call up is just what we need to prevent the Corapalypse
Oh, so, it's going to vest.
Or, rather, it’s going to straightjacket.
by Dan Lewis on Jun 1, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Nice
I think all bad vests should henceforth all be known as straitjackets
by deadspy3 on Jun 1, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
thirdeded
Gas prices today are a lot like a pitcher's ERA. Anything under 3 is amazing, under 4 is pretty good and anything 5 and up is something you want to avoid.
by Bobby Baseball on Jun 1, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
1,2,3,4
"I want to win now, not 3 years from now. That's my stance." - Kevin Burkhardt
by Brian. on Jun 1, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Still thinking this is weird.
Rubin appears to be the only person who, at the time or since, reported anything other than “80 starts.” I suppose he might be right and everyone else wrong, but I still would rather have someone other than Rubin/Cora confirm that it is “appearances” and not “starts.”
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Jun 1, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
It would actually be kind of amusing if Cora was just wrong
That would be some serious Grission
Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...
by Stephen Schmidt on Jun 1, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Knowing the Mets' luck/stupidity
Someone forgot to type the word “started” in the contract, so it just reads “Option vests after 80 games in 2010…”
by Bieser's Balk on Jun 1, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
he doesn't even have to be in those games
once 80 games happen in 2010 he vests. They don’t even have to be Mets games, or baseball games. If any gaming occurs in 2010 it counts
by KeithsMoustache on Jun 1, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
well shit
guys, I want to apologize for playing over 80 hands of asshole already this year. it’s my fault that Cora’s contract has vested.
my softball season
and video gaming habits have surely pushed him over the top
by KeithsMoustache on Jun 1, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Given his last few seasons, 80 appearances actually makes sense.
He hasn’t started 60 in a season since 2004, but he’s averaged 86 appearances over those five years.
Yeah, it does makes sense.
He did start 56 games last season, though, and 80 appearances certainly would have seemed easily attainable even assuming a fully healthy Reyes and a fully “healthy” Castillo.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Jun 1, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
which is pathetic in and of itself
by HotChipWillBreakYourLegs on Jun 1, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Which is damning of Jerry's bench management in and of itself.
May you be locked in a battle of wits against Jerry Manuel.
by BobbyV_Incognito on Jun 1, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Why did Omar even make it an option?
Did he think that then no one would notice that he’s giving a two year contract to his (according to reports) buddy?
The only other thing I got out of that chat is that Jerry likes Pagan at because he’s breaking up the righties. Great. And that Rubin wants a ML ready college pitcher in the draft – he wants to win now!
Omar has to give a two year contract to an over the hill veteran
It’s in his contract: Marlon Anderson, Julio Franco, Alex Cora….
Why would the Mets not need an offensively challenged aging player?
I think it was something along the lines of
“Here’s 2mil to be our backup”
“Well I was paid to be backup last year but I played as much as a lot of starters, so if that happens again, I want to be compensated or else I’m walking”
“How about a vesting option”
Actually, I think the Mets' negotiation sessions
are something like those cartoons where Bugs and Daffy have the “Duck Season”/“Wabbit Season” back-and-forths until Bugs turns things around by saying “Wabbit Season,” leading Daffy to say “Duck Season” and eventually to demand that Elmer (Fudd, not Dessens) fire his gun (at Daffy). This is pretty much the only explanation I have for the contracts of Perez and Cora.
by dontstopbelieving on Jun 1, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Because he's dumb.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jun 1, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
The minors don't stink
If I’m not mistaken, they’re ranked #15 overall.
"I want to win now, not 3 years from now. That's my stance." - Kevin Burkhardt
What?
Please explain that train of thought
Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...
by Stephen Schmidt on Jun 1, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
...because Omar is...
possibly the stupidest GM in the history of sports…this side of Dayton Moore?
too bad I am not left handed, otherwise I might get a vesyed option for breathing!
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
oops
sorry for the typo, meant to write “vested”!
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
WHY ARE THE METS SO STUPID?
I MEAN COME ON ALREADY
by JohnPeterson on Jun 1, 2010 2:49 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Rubin's full response:
I will say Francoeur will get a lot of extra rope because of his personality. And, who exactly are they otherwise placing in RF? Once/whenever Beltran returns, I’m sure the Beltran-Bay-Pagan combo will chip away at Francoeur’s playing time. And, like John Maine, Francoeur is a prime candidate to be nontendered after the year because his salary is out of step with his production.
Umm, Chris Carter vs. LHP and Fernando Tatis vs. LHP. HOW THE HELL DO THESE PEOPLE GET PAID TO WRITE ABOUT BASEBALL?
by JohnPeterson on Jun 1, 2010 2:57 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I'm just going to choose to enjoy
the suggestion that the Mets might actually have the stones to non-tender Frenchy because of his sucking
Did it ever occur to anyone
that Carter may not have an arm? Does anyone have a link to a scouting report that says he can play right? Not a rhetorical question. I believe Gina had read sth to that effect.
by tmu on Jun 1, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
For what it's worth...
TZ called him -1 run in 44 games in right in AAA in 2009.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=carter003wil
This is probably not the right time
to be attacking Francoeur, given that his OPS over the last 7 games is over 1.000. SSS, sure, but . . . .
by tmu on Jun 1, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
But it's hard to be screaming about yanking him
when he’s hot, is all. Let’s see where he plateaus. It’s how you’d treat most platoon players.
by tmu on Jun 1, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
You also weren't hot on yanking him when the Mets were on a short winning streak.
So, when is the right time to talk about yanking him? Ever?
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Jun 1, 2010 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
When he's sucking
and the Mets aren’t winning every game. I think he’s a very good defender for RF, I think there may be something (albeit minor) to the intangibles, and he’s hitting right now. He also has RBIzzzz. So when the Mets are not scoring runs, AND he’s the culprit, you maybe make a change. Just like with any other non-entrenched starter.
by tmu on Jun 1, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Traid the Coeur....
Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...
by Stephen Schmidt on Jun 1, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
this is crazy talk
When he somehow doesn’t suck, then he won’t be the culprit. Until then, “hot hand” or not, playing him is hurting the team. What is complicated about that idea?
Wait, wait, wait
You can’t seriously think he’s been “hurting the team” for the past WEEK, (while being the “hot hand,”) can you? Why sit him now? Maybe if there’s an ace righty??? Even if Jerry had made the decision to platoon him or “go with the hot hand,” he’d still play (unless there’s a particularly tough righty.) Why do we need these defined roles for everyone in the lineup? I think RF is going to be a potpurri before we’re done. Carter/French platoon makes sense (if Carter can play right.)
by tmu on Jun 1, 2010 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he should sit every game.
Because he is bad at hitting the baseball.
And I should point out that
Prior to the winnign streak, I wanted him yanked for hitting like a pitcher.
by tmu on Jun 1, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
You just offended pitchers.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Jun 1, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I was gonna go with Al Leiter.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Jun 1, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Al Leiter made up for it by being awesome at his actual job though
by KeithsMoustache on Jun 1, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
That certainly didn't hurt.
But, wow, was he terrible with the bat.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Jun 1, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
2Bhonest. . .
Leiter was my second choice, but I thought I might have had him confused with someone else. Good to see the memory isn’t completely shot.
by tmu on Jun 1, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
no he was an atrocious hitter/bunter
but he was awesome nonetheless
by KeithsMoustache on Jun 1, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
His batting provided a lot of entertainment value, though
you can’t discount that.
Randy Tate was a worse hitter
Problem was, he was also much worse as a pitcher.
From Fred to Jeff
and O to Jerr
Funny things
Are everywhere
- Dr. Seuss (if he were a Mets fan)
His OPS was .400 for the 35 games before that.
Still a small sample, but there is that.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Jun 1, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Not arguing
But they stuck with him, and now he’s the hot hand. So let’s just ride it out.
by tmu on Jun 1, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Why does it seem that the fans, even on this ESPN chat,
know more than Rubin and the rest of the writers and the organization in general?
Although, Rubin seems to just be keeping the criticism to himself:
Wouldn’t it make sense to, I don’t know, give Wright/Bay/Pagan more at-bats than Alex Cora?
Rubin: I certainly think there’s a case to be made for maximizing the at-bats of the best hitters.
a case to be made?
Shouldn’t it be self-evident that you want the best getting more opportunities?
Is there another sport where coaches purposely try to cut back on the opportunities of their best players?
by Mike Clemente on Jun 1, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
He's a beat reporter.
Not a blogger, or faraway network analyst. If he goes scorched-earth with the criticism, his access dries up, whether officially or unofficially, and no matter for whom he works.
by LeiterMilnerFasterStronger on Jun 1, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Really, it's just human nature, to be like that, I think.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jun 1, 2010 3:05 PM EDT reply actions
It's kind of like in the business world
people who are kiss-ups and “yes men” often get promoted, even if they are not good at what they do. Hence, Frenchy’s playing time.
Also, if they call up Tejada and he also bats 2nd instead of 8th, I’m gonna lose it.
Don't be silly
They will call him up and have him sit while Cora starts and bats 2nd.
by dontstopbelieving on Jun 1, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Why would they call up a 20 year old and not give him significant playing time?...
John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.
His sitting around doing nothing
is “integral” to the success of the team.
"I want to win now, not 3 years from now. That's my stance." - Kevin Burkhardt
I want him to sit around doing nothing now
Not in three years from now. Oh hold it, having him sit around doing nothing now is vastly increasing the chance that in three years he will be sitting around doing nothing.
Idle speculation
Not sure why we think Rubin is authoritative on this.
by tmu on Jun 1, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
It absolutely boggles my mind
that these reporters are not calling out management in a very direct way, and if the questions are asked, why they don’t call them on the bullshit answers.
‘Frenchy just needs to get out of his slump’ ‘Umm he’s been slumping for 3 years, and has never been very good.’
‘We need alex cora’ ‘Umm wouldn’t felipe lopez have been a better choice since he;‘s a better player?’
Etc.
They are the ones asking the Mets to extend Jerry they think he knows Baseball
Reality is he makes them look smarter compared to him
YEP
Maybe somebody should buy Jerry a laptop for the dugout… and a pocket protector. then he’d be one of us you.
Instead of ripping Jerry for mismanaging, maybe give Hojo some credit for getting Frenchy to a level where he can compete for a ML job again.
There’s no doubt that when Beltran returns he will find it hard to get into the lineup… but if he finds himself (which he has done lately) he can be one of hte better players on this team.
… and don’t forget that Jerry has to manage Omar’s contracts. I don’t see LaRussa saying he wants to be the Mets manager… Maybe they can get gardenhire back to NY… after that there aren’t too many current managers that make a difference.
Jerry took over from a dugout stain, and has done a good job with what he’s had to deal with.
Look at the kind of ballplayer Pagan became this year. He might have been exiled last year by a guy who didn’t get it. Frenchy is better. Murphy was able to find a home, now he has to find another one.
Just be glad you don’t live in KC or Pittsburgh.
NHL 500... Let the Less Filling vs Tastes Great debate begin!
Parody?
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Jun 1, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
If so, it's all sorts of awesome
If not…
by HotChipWillBreakYourLegs on Jun 1, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
its still all sorts of awesome
just in a tragilarious way
by KeithsMoustache on Jun 1, 2010 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
All over the place
And a slight Andy Rooney feel to it.
by James Kannengieser on Jun 1, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
"Frenchy is better"
I agree (see above) that he has been better over the past . . . WEEK. Heckuva job, Howie!!!!
by tmu on Jun 1, 2010 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes... he's a lot better...
His career was OVER in ATL. If he eventually finds the player he was 2005-2007 the Mets got themselves one helluva ballplayer. Have some faith… yes… it’s been a week or so… but he rarely had these weeks the last four years… but he’s had more than a few as a Met. Plus he’s been terrific in the field. He’s a pretty damn good 7 or 8 hitter…. with 3-5 potential. He’s 26… he’s not one of the relics that Minaya has dug out of his baseball card collection.
NHL 500... Let the Less Filling vs Tastes Great debate begin!
Really bad.
Like, Bad God Barajas Year bad. But from a RF.
by LeiterMilnerFasterStronger on Jun 1, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
" he can be one of hte better players on this team."
Well, see, if you subtract ANY players worst at bats he’ll magically become one of the better players on this team.
Exactly.
I choose to ignore everything that happened between the 10th game and the 45th game for Jeff Francoeur. He’s basically a Hall of Famer!
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Jun 2, 2010 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions
The Kool-Aid logo
. . . is either clever or ridiculously appropriate.
by tmu on Jun 1, 2010 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
ridiculously appropriate...
sometimes I’ll drink the Kool Aid of a team I’ve been a fan of for 40 years… sometimes you gotta try to be positive…
NHL 500... Let the Less Filling vs Tastes Great debate begin!
Jeebus
you’re 40+? Could have fooled me. I was thinking more like, say, 13.
by tmu on Jun 1, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
and in a boy scout uniform
Whatever gets you off.
NHL 500... Let the Less Filling vs Tastes Great debate begin!
sometimes you do have to be positive, this is true
but sometimes you have to be realistic about a player who’s never shown a consistent ability to be a starting caliber player. I hope he keeps raking like he has been, but to say he’s resurrected his career here is somewhat of an overstatement. His OPS is .697, which for a right fielder is pretty bad. He admittedly has a great arm, and saves some runs that way, and used as a platoon guy/bench player he’s not totally awful, but the fact that we start him every day in right is somewhat disconcerting. Jerry was certainly handed some bad cards, but he consistently turns a bad situation into a worse situation by poorly managing his bullpen and using his worst pinch hitters in the most critical situations. We all want the Mets to win, and there is plenty to be positive about with Ike Davis, Reyes getting back in gear, Pelf growing into an above average pitcher, Santana every 5th day, God Barajas crushing the ball, and Dickey and Takahashi providing some stability over Maine and Ollie. I’ll focus on the positives that really exist, no need to see them where there aren’t any.
by KeithsMoustache on Jun 1, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
If we give in
then we are Cub fans. No tolerance of mediocrity.
by tmu on Jun 1, 2010 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed
Enjoy the good, hate the bad, and always want your team to get better.
by KeithsMoustache on Jun 1, 2010 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
OR
we could get Jerry some jeans shorts, slimjims, and an extra Y chromosome, and he’d be more like us you.
He has done a masterful job propping up this team all the way to . . . slightly below expectations.
by tmu on Jun 1, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Show of hands
Professional baseball managers… (crickets)
People who have faced a 95MPH fastball… (crickets)
People who have never been to a Star Wars or Star Trek Convention… (crickets)
Habitual masturbators…. (no more calls, we have a winner)
NHL 500... Let the Less Filling vs Tastes Great debate begin!
Not that it matters
But I’d raise my hand for 3 of those.
by James Kannengieser on Jun 1, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Considering I'd assume you've never managed a baseball team for money
You can keep that hand where I can’t see it, James.
John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.
Semi-successful troll.
And I like Pittsburgh.
by LeiterMilnerFasterStronger on Jun 1, 2010 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Leo Durocher said it best
Nice guys finish last.
Get rid of Frenchie, get a bastard that can get on base.
by jacksonvillesuns on Jun 1, 2010 3:32 PM EDT reply actions
That's reasonable, though.
Gotta bring up someone, it’s only a few days, and if you need a guy, you want someone good.
...Sigh
Stupid organization is stupid
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?
Here's something else from
the Rubin chat:
That’s the one story I whiffed on recently. I was told point blank that it sounded like he was going down to the minors to start stretching out for starting duty. Then, in the game Maine left after five pitches in D.C., Jerry Manuel tried to have Mejia work the final three innings. In the second of those innings, Mejia’s mechanics went out of whack. And so much for starting right now, it seemed. I believe he’ll go to winter ball to start and then compete for a rotation spot next spring training.
"I want to win now, not 3 years from now. That's my stance." - Kevin Burkhardt
I love this
The solution to resolving a potential mechanical issue that pops up when he pitches multiple innings isn’t to send the guy down to have him fix the issue in no-pressure minor league games. The solution is to bury the problem by keeping the guy in the majors and limiting him to meaningless, one-inning stints.
by Bieser's Balk on Jun 1, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Wait, I think I've got it
If a guy has a physical issue (i.e. Mejia’s mechanical issue isolated to 1 inning), you bury the problem by keeping the guy in the majors and limiting him to meaningless, one-inning stints.
If a guy has an overall issue (i.e. Ollie) you bury the problem by keeping the guy in the majors and limiting him to meaningless, one-inning stints.
If a guy has a performance issue (i.e. Frenchy’s .244/.305/.392) you bury the problem by keeping the guy in the majors and limiting him to meaningless, one-at-bat appearances… Damn, let me try again.
If a guy has a performance issue (i.e. GMJ’s .193/.270/.246) you bury the problem by keeping the guy in the majors and limiting him to meaningless, one-at-bat appearances… Shit, one more try. I can do this.
If a guy has a performance issue (Jesus Feliciano’s .403/.448/.503 in AAA) you promote the guy and see what he can do… Fuck it, I give up.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
by Ogre39666 on Jun 2, 2010 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
basically, the plan is to resolve the "issues" by continuing to play bad or ineffective players
This is why you don’t play your good players — the ones without “issues” have no story arc to resolve, nothing to gain from playing. You know, except wins, but those obviously aren’t important.
I mean, Victorino wants to lose the "right way",
wins have to be overrated, right?
Save Jenrry Mejia!
is it possible to storm Citi Field
and hold Omar, Jeffy and Jerry hostage until they send Mejia down, start Carter and Tatis and dump Frenchy?
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
I'm with you.
May you be locked in a battle of wits against Jerry Manuel.
by BobbyV_Incognito on Jun 1, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I say we bring in some people from Athens
they seem to be the professionals at the moment
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
Definitely
don’t use the Israeli Marines…. (politics flag unnecessary, it’s not going any further than that!)
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