Pelf now #2 Applesauce - Perez still a Met, Beltran may play right, Piazza's greatness
by Joe Budd on Jun 2, 2010 7:56 AM EDT
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Meet the Mets
Mike Pelfrey continues to make Met fans proud while Oliver Perez makes Met fans want to bang our heads against our keyboards. Despite the rationality of cutting Perez, the Mets still seem hesitant to do so. And, finally with the Perez thing, Morgan Ensberg calls out the two anonymous Met players or Mike Puma for being cowards.
There is more good news besides a great outing by Mike Pelfrey. Carlos Beltran told his new best buddy Craig Carton that he's close to returning AND apparently he might replace Francoeur in right field.
In Bison news, Mike Hessman hit one out of the stadium and Pat Misch was strong in a 4-1 win. Nick Evans added two homers in Binghamton.
In case you missed This Month in Met Baseball, here is what you should know about May.
Matt Cerrone talked with Benny Agbayani about Japan, Bobby Valentine, and of course, the Mets.
Joe Janish defends Wally Backman from Bob Klapisch. Janish believes that Backman can handle today's baseball player.
Patrick Flood has an awesome piece on all-time WAR and Mike Piazza.
Around MLB
The Phillies continue to suck. The Nationals show some spunk, but lose. And the Marlins take it to Trevor Hoffman.
Phillies Nation asks if Roy Halladay is the best pitcher to ever throw a perfect game.
Roy Oswalt will say yes to Washington should they call.
Brian Bannister's sample size has become large enough to figure out exactly what he is.
Who are these people asking for the head of Joe Maddon?
And, finally, Mark McGwire is now the father of triplets. Insert steroid joke here.
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Beltran in right
would be fantastic, but what would it take for the Mets to get Roy Oswalt or Cliff Lee. I would love to see either one in a Mets uni before the All-Star Break.
Too much
considering this year is very very likely not going to result in a playoff appearance, and whatever we lost getting one of those guys might hamstring us for the next couple of years (when we might have a better chance of winning something)
Not sure about very very likely not going to result in a playoff appearance.
The season is only 1/4 of the way through and we’ve hung in there despite Sketchy starting pitching, a shaky bullpen, and spotty hitting. Our hitting is starting to get on track (Reyes is producing and Wright isn’t striking out 2 of 4 trips to the plate) and when Beltran comes back that will only improve. If we can address our pitching needs, I think we would have a good chance of making the playoffs.
Current playoff odds
are 20%, but the Mets are projected to need around 93 wins to get there (presumably because it looks like the NL West will get the Wild Card). I won’t discount it happening, but I feel like if we squeak into the postseason it will be inspite of true talent level not because of it.
I think 93 wins is a bit of a stretch
For the wild card that is. Do we think the Padres and Giants are going to keep up their current levels of play? Potentially the Dodgers and Rockies could get there, but I don’t see it. It’s not unreasonable to suspect that the Wild Card win total will be in the high and maybe even mid-80s.
The team as currently constituted is a .500 team give or take. But as DavidE mentioned, Reyes is starting to finally hit, and Beltran could be on his way back soon. Of course I’ll believe it when I see it. But if it’s mid-July and the Mets are hovering a couple of games over .500, Beltran really is back, and they’re 3 games out of the Wild Card, then taking a shot at acquiring Lee doesn’t seem so far-fetched an idea to me. If the Mets can emerge out of a mediocre field to take the Wild Card, then they go into the post season with a rotation of Santana, Lee and Pelfrey. I’d take my chances with that.
That’s all speculative of course. If the Mets are any further out than what I just outlined, then there is no reason to trade for Lee, Oswalt, or anyone of that caliber.
The thing is
Making the playoffs and losing in the DS is probably the ceiling— and do we want to trade prospects for that when we could just keep em and sign Lee or someone else as a free agent?
by Brooklyn Tar Heels on Jun 2, 2010 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Playoffs are a crapshoot
Once there, anything can happen, and as I said that rotation could take the team a long way. Plus we’d be looking at a lineup featuring Reyes, Beltran, Pagan, Bay, Wright, and Davis, which isn’t that shabby.
The real problem is getting there, and that seems like more of a long shot than advancing once there.
Agree
Good assessment. BTW, I heard that Seattle may not be asking for much regarding Lee. One above average prospect and two average prospects for a total stopper. Maybe we could even insist on them taking some of our dead weight (Castillo) instead of one of our prospects.
I'm thinking whoever told you that didn't have much of an idea of
what they were talking about. They’ll collect draft picks just by keeping him so you’re going to have to give up a package better than two first rounders.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
To Me its not playoff odds its the odds of keeping Jerry and Minaya if we do get one
If the Mets make a playoff run then I bet the 2 of them get re-upped for another 3 despite what the fans think they are friends of Jeff so any excuse goes
our pitching hasn't really been shaky
it’s been ugly but it’s kept men from getting home at a ridiculous pace considering how often they get men on base.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
I would be interested in trading for Lee
but it would have to be a sign and trade thing like with Santana because I think it is likely that he gets traded this season is seattle continues to struggle.
yeah I actually thought about whether thats even possible
mid-season sign and trades, though I was wondering in regards to possibly trading for someone like Crawford.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
Hessman
Feliciano has become the minor league flavor of the month, due to (1) GMJ’s all-around ineptitude, (2) his flirtation with .400, and (3) Figgy’s comments. But Hessman really deserves to get some consideration. Tatis has been adequate as a bench player but Hessman’s offensive upside is miles beyond what Tatis’ is. Given Hessman’s career numbers, his high batting average is probably due to come down, but the power is real, and on a team starved for power, it would be great to see him get a shot. Defensively, Hessman’s not unlike Tatis (or Daniel Murphy, for that matter) – his natural position is 3B but he’s played a decent amount of 1B and a sprinkling of OF over the course of his career, as well as a few games here and there at 2B (one of which was a stunt last year with Toledo when he played all 9 positions).
Call me crazy, but as long as they’re trying to get Murphy to become a utility player (and have done so with Tatis already), why not do the same with Hessman? The big club could certainly use his bat and increased versatility can only help.
There is part of me that wonders whether the Mets are reluctant to call up Buffalo’s top performers – to the extent that they’re “4A” guys like Hessman and not “prospect” types – because of all the ill will they generated by putting together such a historically awful Buffalo team last year. This year, they went to the opposite extreme and brought in top-level AAA talent, and they’ve seen results – which presumably will lead Buffalo to re-up with them. But is there anyone else out there who thinks that at least on some level, the Mets might be prioritizing wins at AAA over the big leagues?
by dontstopbelieving on Jun 2, 2010 9:50 AM EDT reply actions
Not really.
I doubt it has much to do with angering Bison fans, and I’d imagine Hessman was told that he was pretty much destined to be a AAA barring catastrophic injuries (again.) I also don’t think we can say with confidence that Hessman’s “upside” is “miles beyond what Tatis’ is,” but I agree that it would be nice to see him get a shot at some point. Most of me wants them to find a way to have a competent three-position OF not named “Gary Matthews, Jr.,” (before Beltran returns, e.g., now), however. Turning Hessman into a utility player at this stage, taking ABs away from, e.g., Murphy, seems shortsighted.
Less about the fans
More about the ownership, which was on record as being extremely upset with how the Mets treated the franchise in 2009.
In terms of Hessman-as-utility-man, I’m certainly not arguing for taking away Murphy’s ABs. On the other hand, last night’s Buffalo lineup had Russ Adams playing RF and Mike Cervenak playing LF. Both of those players are utiilty types who play multilple positions, and there’s no reason Hessman can’t flip-flop with them to get some OF time every now and then and have them play 3B. By the same token, no reason he can’t spell Jacobs at 1B either, especially against lefties. And in the games when Murphy’s getting time in the OF, why not put Hessman at 2B and see how he does?
In short, I don’t want to take ABs or positional time away from people whom the Mets see as part of their future – which at AAA means Murphy and Ruben Tejada. But if Hessman can get positional flexibility at the expense of AAA filler like Adams, Cervenak, and Jacobs, I don’t see any downside at all.
by dontstopbelieving on Jun 2, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
There's a theme here
on AA, and it seems to be “[1B-OF hybrid, i.e., DH] can hit, why not try him at [new position]? What’s the harm?”
At some point, you do have to assume that had the guy been competent at other positions, someone, somewhere along the line, would have tried him out there.
Murphy wasn't a 1b-of outfielder until last year he came up as a 3rd basemen
Not to mention it’s a theme here because it’s a theme among baseball. It’s not like we all just sat here and decided it should be tried it’s been a recurring theme among a bunch of baseball teams the last few years, moving outfielders to 2nd when they have a glut of outfielders and a need there.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
And not just stat heavy teams
the scouting heavy defensive obsessive twins put michael friggin cuddyer there friday. If the twins can try it we certainly can.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
He's talking about Mike Hessman
And Dan Murphy was a 3B, but that doesn’t mean he was a great 3B. Wilmer Flores is a shortstop. think he’ll ever play there in the bigs?
Flores got a 20 on the 20-80 speed scale
Murphy has been regarded by most scouts as a better than average athlete.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
That's the equivalent of a -25
Perhaps today is a good day to die.
-Klingon proverb
by Thomas Wachtel on Jun 2, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I've heard that a million times
but he doesn’t look that slow. I mean, he looks slow, but not ridiculously slow.
well he's being graded vs other players his own age
he might not be slow compared to the average high schooler but compared to the average 18 year old professional baseball player who isn’t done growing.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
Why should you have to assume that?
By doing so, you assume that decision makers somewhere along that line were competent. I’ll never understand that line of reasoning. It happens all the time with Nick Evans, for example. “If Nick Evans is so good, why isn’t he in the big leagues?”
by James Kannengieser on Jun 2, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Or if Perez is this bad why would someone have given him a 3/36 contract
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
Well, because we have incomplete information
and nothing else stops us from saying “hey, maybe Mike Hessman can be our new second baseman.” And, also, when a guy’s been in the minors for ten years, someone, somewhere, probably should have been able to figure these things out.
Now, there’s nothing wrong with the original post that suggested that the Mets maybe see if Hessman is a legit 1B/3B/OF guy, etc. (or emergency catcher), but you get people calling the organization “stupid” for keeping, say, Francoeur and not inserting X 1B-DH type in his place (Evans, etc.) without any real evidence that whomever is the replacement can play the position.
Say what you will about GMJ, but you can put him out in center and he won’t embarrass himself. He’s the only backup we have who can really play CF. So, it’s Pridie or bust as a GMJ replacement. Saying “cut GMJ, bring up [Evans, Hessman, etc.]” makes no sense. I’d take Pridie, but there’s no proof whatsoever that he’s a legit big league hitter (although it would be tough to be worse than GMJ has been this season.)
Oh yeah I agree saying cut GMjr and bring up Evans/Murphy/Hessmen
is stupid. But suggesting that Hessmen or Murphy should at least get AAA reps at 2nd isn’t unreasonable, especially when there’s no one important playing there anyway.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
I am thinking that Hessman and Feliciano won't come up till after Buffalo is done
Its making sure they have AAA affiliate in IL after losing Norfolk
That goes back to the original post
and as regards either shuffling Hessman around, etc., and losing a solid AAA affiliate, the original poster (DSB) may have been right that they don’t want to piss off ownership. I hadn’t been aware that there was an issue there. And losing our AAA affiliate would not be insignificant.
Murphy yes
with Hessman . . . I just can’t see a 32 year-old who has never played there being a legit short-term solution. I’d DEFINITELY at least try Murphy there, but with a 2011 (or late this year, at best) “vesting date,” as it were. I guess you could try it if Hessman was willing and you’re getting Murphy some LF time, etc. . . .
Of course, cutting GMjr in and of itself isn't stupid
John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.
You have to think
there’s a halfway-competent CF out there somewhere, yes.
by tmu on Jun 2, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I disagree with the notion
that it’s not embarassing to watch GMJ play CF.
rec'd
The argument from authority? Where the “authority” is the Mets front office? Seriously?
Hessman
has been in the Mets organization for like, two months.
And here I regrettably start to lurch into “JPinVA” category, which is to say that if it’s a bunch of dudes in a comment section who, more likely than not, have never seen these minor leaguers play, versus scouts and coaches, maybe the scouts and coaches have the edge. Is it possible that Hessman is just in the wrong place at the wrong time, and has been for a decade? Of course. But there really aren’t numbers we can fall back on to say that he’s ML quality as an OF, or that Murphy would be a fine 2B, etc.
Also, playing a new position often is something players resist strongly. It’s not easy to do, and all aspects of their game can suffer.
So you can “rec” your buddies until the cows saunter home, but green borders don’t equal sense.
by tmu on Jun 2, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Pagan appreciation
One of the top OFs in the NL this year according to WAR — and ZiPS projects him to maintain all of his batting numbers and peripherals going forward. His defense is pretty well proven. I can’t imagine Beltran could match that, with his injury. But we could have the best outfield if he replaced Francoeur in right, right? And the infield, sans Castillo, is great too. The biggest things going against us are Jerry’s substitutions and shaky/unproven pitchers.
by Brooklyn Tar Heels on Jun 2, 2010 10:32 AM EDT reply actions
YES to Pagan, BUT let's not get ahead of ourselves
The IF is potentially “great”, sans Castillo. Reyes is lurching back into form, and Wright has been up-and-down. Ike still needs a second trip through the league (and to finish his first trip.) The numbers as we have them aren’t “great.” And “shaky/unproven pitchers” are (ahem) a pretty big deal.
I don't think it's going to happen this year.
But, if we can get someone average to replace Castillo next year, and sign Lee or someone like that, we could have a great team. This year, it’s tough. We have our bullpen both starting and being the bullpen, and we only have a 24-man roster with Perez taking up space.
by Brooklyn Tar Heels on Jun 2, 2010 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Honestly
Can Murphy be THAT bad at 2B? Seems like he would be an immediate improvement offensively over the terrible twosome, and he would at least save the mets 2 million from Cora’s vest.
Yes
He could be. You have to have someone at least minimally competent at the position. He has to learn the pivot or we’re giving away even more outs. He needs some time down there.
Look
there’s a limit. Why don’t we just have Beltran play there when he gets back? Not defending what we have now, but you have to be realistic. I think the burden of proof is on the advocates of moving the guy to the brand new position.
I actually don't think that's horribly unrealistic
a bunch of inferior outfielders have made the transition, that being said I imagine his knees would prevent it.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
by Gina on Jun 2, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I thought you were talking about Murphy for a sec
and then realized it was Betlran. WHA??? I hope that was a joke.
I don't think she was saying we should actually do it
just that he would be more than capable of doing so.
Perhaps today is a good day to die.
-Klingon proverb
by Thomas Wachtel on Jun 2, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah I wouldn't actually try it
but what I meant more is with someone as athletic as Beltran it’s not an unreasonable idea, there’s just no reason to do it when he’s as good in cf as he is, and of course the fact he’s 30 something with bad knees. But if we were talking about 21 year old Beltran and we were a team with blocked outfield spots it wouldn’t be a terrible idea.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
At what point does it become counterproductive
to put a hitter who can put up an OPS of 750 at 2b? When he’s 10 runs below average? 15? I assume that those numbers can be crunched, I just don’t know how to do it.
So let’s say Murphy will be bad, but not Adam Dunn bad, and will be -15 on defense. Is that better than Luis Castillo and his 630 OPS with weak defense?
Okay, well
I guess I’ll just have to read the post below mine.
How did you arrive at the -11 figure, Evan?
-11 is what Castillo put up last year
so I’m guessing he’s just saying that since his bat will obviously be better as long as he’s not -11 bad he’ll be better than castillo.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
You could also find their projected wOBA's
convert to RAA and then see how many defensive runs they would need to be average, or how many defensive runs Murphy would need to be better than Castillo.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
Castillo was epically bad at second last year
So all Murphy has to do is not be worth -11 runs in the field to be better than Castillo. He appears to have better range already, he was solid when he got to the ball playing first, it all depends on how he turns the DP which is something he can learn. It’s not like putting Mo Vaugn at second, he was one of the rangyist first baseman last year, and has a history at third base. It’s not an outrageous idea.
by Evan_S on Jun 2, 2010 11:58 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
But I think
it would take the rest of the year, by which point Cora will have straightjacketed, etc.
Unless someone steps in
Perhaps today is a good day to die.
-Klingon proverb
by Thomas Wachtel on Jun 2, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I know it's SSS
but UZR and +/- both have Castillo at about a run above average this year. Is it possible that he’s improved his defense somewhat this year, or at least he might not be as epically bad as his numbers last year indicate?
Either way, I’m still in favor of trying out Murph at 2B, just because his value as a utility player increases if he can be adequate there.
You don't cheer for the Mets. You drink for the Mets.
It's also possible it's positioning
and like Josh said he’s already started to hobble and isn’t likely going to get any better trying to play on it.
That being said I also don’t think anyone is considering Murphy our second basemen for the next ten years, more like a utility player who can stop gap there once Castillo totally falls apart, which is clearly impending as his offense is falling off a cliff, until we find a better solution.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
Sad thing is
His “good” offense is a guy that got on base at a higher clip then he slugged.
I mean 12 XBH’s last year in a “good” season, bleh!
Murphy showed *excellent* range at 1b
Granted, that’s diminished a bit at 2b, but he played there in the AFL, and IIRC, he both started and turned a decent number of DPs. He had quite a few errors, so yeah, I don’t think anyone is saying it’s a no brainer that he can be a MLB 2b.
But it is equally (and perhaps moreso) as baseless to say that there is no reason to believe that Murphy could at least be competant there.
Putting pieces like Murphy into position to help the club as much as he can, whether that be at 2b, 1b, utility or whatever, is the point. And there is next to no downside to having him get as much experience as possible at 2b down at AAA as possible. We had Fernando Tatis playing both 2b and SS at the major league level, so clearly the bar isn’t high for the minimum skills necessary. To say that Murphy can’t at least reach that level of competance is far too risk averse for a team that plays retreads like Mike Jacobs and Frank Catalonotto in hope of catching lightning in a bottle.
This is why you don't do this kind of thing in the middle of the season:
“Daniel Murphy was carted off the field after an allegedly “cheap slide” at second base by Syracuse player Leonard Davis."
Can we please just bring up the Faceless One and dump GMJ?
If the Mets management aren’t taking notice, well, they should be.
The following should definitely appear on Jeopardy...
ANSWER: They were invented in Philadelphia by the city's favorite icon Benjamin Franklin. However, they are very rarely used by people in the city and its surrounding areas.
QUESTIONS: What are logic, reason, and rational thought?
2010: Year of the Grission
I feel like
They won’t even let him go to AAA, much less the major leagues.
Well he's on the 40-man, so it's not like they have any other choice besides letting him rot in Bingo.
The following should definitely appear on Jeopardy...
ANSWER: They were invented in Philadelphia by the city's favorite icon Benjamin Franklin. However, they are very rarely used by people in the city and its surrounding areas.
QUESTIONS: What are logic, reason, and rational thought?
2010: Year of the Grission
Applesauce
Beltran close to returning = real good.
Is Roy Halladay the best pitcher to throw a perfect game? In one word, no.
Roy Oswalt saying yes to Washington makes me afraid. They are supposed to be perennial losers that keep us from being the worst in the NL East. If they start getting good, that makes it all the more likely that we become the new Nats.
Good luck with the D-Train and all, Arizona.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jun 2, 2010 11:06 AM EDT reply actions
At least someone said something about the Halladay perfect game
That argument is ridiculous….
To name a few of the pitchers that have thrown perfect games: Cy Young, Jim Bunning, Sandy Koufax, Catfish Hunter, Dennis Martinez, David Cone, and Randy Johnson.
i wont say he is the best
but are david cone and randy johnson that much better then him? I mean… Halladay is really good.
I am a fan of both the mets and knicks... so just kill me now.
Halladay is an outstanding pitcher.
But I’d say Johnson was definitely better. Cone, eh, probably not.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Jun 2, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Koufax and Johnson
Were better, but Halladay is certainly high on the list. Also, when did we achieve consensus (per the article) that Halladay is the best pitcher in baseball currently? He quite possibly is (and he leads in WAR for this season), but I think guys like Tim Lincecum could quibble with that assessment. I guess I’m picking nits here, but I didn’t like how the writer just baldly asserted that Halladay was the best pitcher in the game as if it’s an unchallenged fact.
by dcmetsfan on Jun 2, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I think the consensus was achieved when he put up the numbers he has
for years in the AL East.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
probably because people never talked about him
because the blue jays were boring and terrible and he’d been doing the same thing for years which isn’t as exciting as young guys like Lincecum and Grienke, also he wasn’t the crazy strike out guy Burnett was which, IMO, is the other reason he was overlooked people were always more interested in Burnetts stuff. If you look at the numbers he’s put up the last 10years pitching in the offense heavy AL East, where there’s a lot of hitters parks too, he’s just ridiculous. Not to mention he’s one of the few guys that can consistently give you 220-240 innings without any kind of drop off.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
I think consensus means if you asked most people
they wouldn’t have a major argument against it. Sure you could argue Lincecum and Grienke were better last year, but no one has been as good as he has for damn near 10 straight years. And I think even if you asked most Giants/KC fans they’d at least concede that it’s close. Sure there were years when Santana/Sabathia/Oswalt were close if not better, but eventually they’ve been overtaken by names like Lincecum and Grienke, Halladay still hasn’t fallen off the age curve.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
But we're talking about
“in the game to-day” (as Harry Kalas used to say about Schmidt.) So is it his track record or his present? If his present, then I think you get some argument. In the past, he was eclipsed by Santana, and as Santana has fallen off a bit due to injuries and the irrepressible Metlaise, guys like Lincecum have come up. So I think you’d get some argument.
The thing is he was never actually eclipsed by Santana
They were about even most years except for two when he was hit by injuries. Halladay was way better in 2002 &2003, Santana was better 2004-2006, Halladay was better again in 2007. I don’t see where he was eclipsed. And he’s still just as good as the young guys now, especially with Lincecum being broken.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
When you think about
track record AND current performance, it’s tough to say he’s not the best, I suppose — accomplished and still strong. We’ll see what happens when he pitches in July in CBP. . . .
5 guys who have thrown a perfect game are in the Hall of Fame
And a 6th is a lock. There are also two more who might luck out and sneak in. I don’t think that the HoF is the end-all, but the implication is that Halladay is already a Hall of Famer
he is gonna have to have one heck of a drop off
for him to not make it IMO.
I am a fan of both the mets and knicks... so just kill me now.
A pitcher having a drop off in his mid-30's?
I’m going to avoid sarcasm, but it has been known to happen from time-to-time.
He's been a Hall of Famer for a few years, now.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jun 2, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
What?
Seriously? Present his hall of fame case as of “a few years” ago. He currently has 155 wins (111 as of the start of 2008), 1 Cy Young award, and 7 healthy seasons.
Yeah, I can't give it to him
Right now. He would need to be excellent for at least 4-5 more years to even sniff it IMO.
True, this.
Halladay has literally two-thirds of a Hall of Fame career. Add another 50% of what he’s got to what he’s got and you’ll get a guy who has been in the argument for best pitcher in baseball for over a decade, with 230+ wins and a contextually great ERA. That’s enough, but it’s just enough. He’d have an ERA+ of 135, which is better than the current crop of HOFers like Smoltz, Glavine, and Schilling, but he’d be hundreds of innings short of their totals. It would be close, but I believe he’d go in.
Yeah but the 155 wins aren't his fault
you have to consider context, he was playing in a division with the Red Sox and Yankees, and recently the Rays. Wins are something out of his control. And I think even the questionable decision makers in the bbwaa will put that in the right context when/if his name comes up. He’s put up a 3.37 ERA pitching in probably the most offense heavy division in the harder league.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
He's close
He’s still a couple of seasons shy of being a Hall-of-Famer, but if he maintains his current performance for another 2-3 seasons he should get in. I know that there’s still a large contingent of archaic-thinking writers who would balk at the low win total, but it does seem that there is a new generation of voters that could overlook that. So far in his career he’s had a WAR in excess of 7.0 four times (twice near 8), which is just phenomenal, and he’s well on his way to doing that again this year. Throw in another pair of 5.0+ performances thus far, and several more down the line, and he has a case. And then there’s the fact that he seems to be the only guy in the modern ear capable (or whose managers have been willing to let him) complete games, and that’s also another argument in his favor.
As for the “who is the best now” argument, again I could be nitpicking. I think with the combination of his current performance along with the amazingly consistent track record over the past decade, he does have a strong case. If you had one pitcher to take to win right now, I’d probably go with Halladay. I just don’t think it’s quite as cut and dry as the guy who wrote the article made it out to be.
Please find someone comparable who is in the hall of fame
I am not sure that they’d take someone just based on 7 full seasons (but not much more), even in a bad division.
I believe the correct answer to that question is currently
Ubaldo Jimenez
i loved Cone
he was one of the smarter pitchers out there
by KeithsMoustache on Jun 2, 2010 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I liked Coney, too.
I just don’t know that he had the career that Halladay is shaping up to have.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Jun 2, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Hday1 is on the path to a better career
but he’s not there yet. He keeps this up 4 or 5 more years, and i’ll be much more inclined to agree. I just don’t count anything as money in the bank because he’s been good up till now.
by KeithsMoustache on Jun 2, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I would take
Koufax or Johnson over him easily.
No But Cy Young, Sandy Koufax , Catfish Hunter and Dennis Martinez are.
They would actually finish Most of there starts and not really on setup men a Quality start 8innings back then
Does OP
does his salary count against the total payroll when considering luxury tax?
*correction
Does cutting OP still count against our total payroll when considering the luxury tax threshold?
If you think the Wilpons are going anywhere near the luxury tax threshold
you are a lot more optimistic than I am about the direction of this club.
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