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Rewarding Minor League Lifers (or: The Story of Jesus Feliciano)

A little over a week ago, Nelson Figueroa ripped the Mets, saying this about his old team, according to Fred Kerber in the Daily News (among other things of course):

Figueroa blasted the Mets' "reward system," noting some players languish in the minors -- he named outfielder Jesus Feliciano in Triple A -- while others are promoted from lower levels.

The comments were framed as sour grapes by most of the New York media, and they may have been. Of course, Figueroa was, himself, one of the 'minor league guys' he was talking about, and he was bypassed by players like Jonathon Niese, who jumped past him in the pecking order while the were teammates.

Let's zero in on this charge by Figueroa, since it goes straight to the ongoing evaluation of Omar Minaya as a general manager. There are rumors that Jesus Feliciano is on his way to the majors -- is this a day late and a dollar short? Is Omar ignoring value in his minor league system and playing favorites?

Feliciano certainly looks, on the surface, to be ready for the bigs. His current .381/.429/.476 line is gaudy and even when translated to its major league equivalent (via MinorLeagueSplits.com), it stands up to scrutiny - .327/.370/.409. There's not a ton of power there (.345 career SLG in the minors), but he has speed (186 SBs) and can play center field. He's even hit over .300 four four straight years in the minor leagues, with patience. Why isn't he on the Mets?

Well there's an easy answer. Jesus is old -- not quite centuries old -- but old. At 31 years old, he is no longer a prospect. In fact, he was no longer a prospect once he joined his third organization without garnering a single major league at-bat at the age of 26. This age component is not one that the players would like to hear about -- they would probably feel that if they can play, they can play. But the minor leagues are full of players that can't yet drink, so beating up on players many years younger isn't terribly impressive.

Take Nelson Figueroa versus Jonathon Niese. Let's just do some lines here (hah), showing the 2009 minor league stat lines for two pitchers that were in direct competition for starts with the Mets last year:

Pitcher A (35 years old, AAA): 2.25 ERA, 1.027 WHIP, 7.6 K/9, 1.9 BB/9
Pitcher B (22 years old, AA): 3.82 ERA, 1.283 WHIP, 7.8 K/9, 2.5 BB/9

If it's me, I'm taking Pitcher B almost every day of the week if I know his age. Pitcher B was, of course, the then 22-year-old Niese, while Pitcher A was the 35-year old Figueroa. It may cause some scowls from the guy who has put in years of work in my minor leagues, but hey, the GM needs to think with his brain, not his heart. Pitcher B, at 22 years old, offers much more promise by putting up similar stats. Just look at Figueroa's line when he was 23 and in AA - 4.34 ERA, 1.434 WHIP, 7.3 K/9, 4.3 BB/9. Not quite Niese-ian.

Then again, it's rarely that clean cut that you have a choice like that. There are a lot of spots on the 25-man roster, and some can go to less exciting prospects. Figueroa might say, fine, take me over Fernando Nieve, or some other scrub on the roster in 2009. And Figueroa would then have a point, because he probably would have been better than some of the final pitchers that headed north with the team that year.

And around the round-about we come, back to Jesus Feliciano. Where there players that he could have out-performed that made the cut after Spring Training? Emphatically, yes. Most obviously,  Gary Matthews Jr. comes to mind. Sarge-lite gave no indication he could be even an average player over his final two years in Los Angeles, but Minaya felt he needed a center fielder. And he felt he needed a Veteran Presence, despite this team having other old men to fit the bill. So Matthews came to Flushing and Feliciano went to Buffalo.

At first glance, Figueroa's comments seem to be the misguided sour grapes of a player that was always destined to bounce between the major and minor leagues. His stuff was never that good, and his results only became interesting once he was older than most people in his league.

But with a little unpacking, we do observe a rightful critique and another example of Omar Minaya's blind side. His insistence on using overpaid, washed-up aging veterans in backup roles has left the team with a poor bench. While Feliciano doesn't own much upside, he costs half as much as Matthews and owns options. That would give Minaya flexibility, and would reward a minor league lifer with a shot of a lifetime. Remember that next time the lifeless corpse of Matthews whiffs lazily at a slider outside the zone.

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didn't really like that pitcher a, pitcher b part

didn’t list the age and without age there is no reason to not take pitcher a. and it is making Figeroa’s point.

Also, looking at it that way, I don’t know why I take the 22 year old and start his clock (if it isn’t already) instead of letting him continue to work on stuff and get better while I jerk around the 35 year old. Of course, in a wasted season for a team like 2009 for the Mets, you might as well take the 22 year old – especially if his clock has already started. There are more details than you discuss for both sides

by astromets on Jun 3, 2010 2:50 PM EDT reply actions  

edited

to reflect your feedback

by Eno Sarris on Jun 3, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Figgy has some points but I agree age has something to do with it

I also think Figgy woul dhave been up with the team by now if he took the assignment to AAA.

by Rickfansince76 on Jun 3, 2010 3:04 PM EDT reply actions  

well

he’s on waivers right now isn’t he? haha. Won’t be coming back, in fact I think he took the assignment to Philly AAA…

by Eno Sarris on Jun 3, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah

if I put the age on the lines, it would be obvious who you take. But if I’m looking to actually FILL a starting spot – not looking for a guy to fill in a start or two, I’m taking the young guy every time.

by Eno Sarris on Jun 3, 2010 3:04 PM EDT reply actions  

i am not sure I understand

why adding the ages into the two lines makes you pick the younger player.

The 35 year old may have learned some things since the last shot he got. he is clearly dominating down there, so why keep him in AAA? He has earned his spot and should get it. If he fails, you have the young guy waiting in the wings.

By calling up the younger player with worse stats in an inferior league, you are not only starting his clock but giving no room for error. If he falters do you send him back down for the older guy? Its not as easy a decision. If the older player stinks, you cut him and move on.

You have two players with the same goal. One clearly outperforms the other. Why does the one who was outperformed get the spot? Why does age make the difference?

I am a fan of both the mets and knicks... so just kill me now.

by gbaked on Jun 3, 2010 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

plus if the 22yr old fails he might not ever learn that 3rd pitch

And he might not be ready emotionally to deal with failure in a season he comes up and wins 17 and shows full promise
Instead of a disapontment or 2yrs of struggle

by Sir Tmac on Jun 3, 2010 7:32 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

While I can understand what you're saying

by that same logic would you have wanted them to bring up Hessman, or Vaspucci circa 2008 over Davis when we had a hole at first base? It’s more likely the younger player is going to be able to maintain/learn to adapt his game to the major leagues/better talent than the 35 year old is. And the younger player probably isn’t going to get any better by facing AAAA non prospects for another year, where as the 35 year olds window to get better is probably already shut.

I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.

by Gina on Jun 3, 2010 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

the younger guy

has more upside.

I’m NOT saying you take a 17 year old out of A-ball to start.

I’m saying the 17-year-old in A-ball that is hitting .300/.350/.450 is worth more than the 26-year-old in AA putting up the same stats.

I thought Niese was ready last year. So therefore, you have a permanent rotation spot open, you pick the guy with more upside (Niese) over the guy who’s just an old dude beating up younger dudes. The guy who’s peaking in AAA, for example.

UNLESS you are talking about a final bench spot. Then I take the Jesus in AAAA over the has-been old dude (GMJ).

Makes sense?

by Eno Sarris on Jun 3, 2010 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

well

this is a little different then the Davis situation.

Davis had been tearing it up. And the hole we got this year was a hole because we were waiting on him, and he was ready.

But if it was a year ago? When Davis was in AA and we had a AAAA player absolutely tearing it up? Then yeah, I think the older guy should have gotten a shot. Because you know the young guy is coming and gonna get his chance. The older guy, this may be it. And if he succeeds, it can be a big boost for the team.

Its a hard thing to gauge. there is no clear cut way to do it. Its really a case by case basis.

I think what Figgy was getting at, is that the Mets make decisions based on non-performance things too often. Look at GMJ for a current example. They did it with Val when he was tearing it up for guys that were playing very bad (I remember blastings thrillage having a heart attack every day).

Its kinda like you have 2 apples. One is a little old, still good to eat and may be awesome, but you know in 2 days its gonna be too soft. You also have a new apple. Its bigger, and no doubt gonna be sweeter. May even be right now. But you know in 2 days its still gonna be sitting there, perfectly ripe. Which apple do you eat?

I am a fan of both the mets and knicks... so just kill me now.

by gbaked on Jun 4, 2010 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

But how is it a different situation than between Niese an Figgy

when part of the reason we didn’t go after a sp was because of Niese (thus the hole was also because we were waiting for him), and if anything Davis had more question marks, whether he could hit breaking balls or lefties.

And what Figgy complained about specifically in his quote was younger guys leapfrogging the older ones.

I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.

by Gina on Jun 4, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

because

niese was still in AA at the time, and was not tearing it up. And figgy was in AAA.
Davis was in AAA, was doing quite well, and there was nobody else playing better.

(At least thats my understanding… I admit I could be off).

I also think, that Figgy was talking emotionally. I mean, imagine if one of us here was on the mets. That is the level of fan that Figgy was (again, my understanding). I know its a business… but man… thats gotta stink. I also think (and I KNOW you are gonna disagree with me here) that the only place Figgy was gonna succeed was gonna be on the mets. I think he needed that extra passion to be a real pitcher at the ML level.

I am a fan of both the mets and knicks... so just kill me now.

by gbaked on Jun 4, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

No Niese was in AAA for all of 2009 thats his 2009 statline

Davis was in AAA for all of like 3 weeks, him being brought up was mostly based on his AA production.

I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.

by Gina on Jun 4, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh

well… I was going based off what was written above.

But still, one guy was clearly dominating where one wasnt.

I am a fan of both the mets and knicks... so just kill me now.

by gbaked on Jun 4, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

I really disagree that it's obvious that you choose

the younger guy for the major league roster.

A large reason for younger players being more preferable is because they have more room for development and improvment. That development doesn’t always happen at the ML level because secondary stuff can’t be worked on as easily on the ML team where winning is paramount.

We have a perfect example of this currently on the team in Jenrry Mejia. Granted it is slightly different because it also involves the switching of roles from starter to reliever.

Also as it’s pointed out above, there are service time considerations to should be considered.

I think the flaw here is that you didn’t allow for the nuance of context in your article, only saying you’d always pick the younger guy. In the specific example of Niese vs. Figgy, I think it’s defensible, but by removing their names and the context of the situation, I think you actually do a disservie to your argument.

by SoCal Metfan on Jun 3, 2010 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

you are correct.

I hope that I gae you more context in my above post.

by Eno Sarris on Jun 3, 2010 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Now Jesus vs. GMJ

no doubt this is a move that needs to be made. it has been apparent for weeks that any of the minor league bats is better off the bench than GMJ. The reason besides for the almost .400 batting avg that Jesus is a good promotion is because of his age. We are not developing him for a future startin slot, he doesn’t need to get experience because he has it. He is at the peak of his game, will probably stay around a couple of years as a extra bat/glove and then be out of the league.

by Rickfansince76 on Jun 3, 2010 3:06 PM EDT reply actions  

Feliciano

Stands up to the minorleaguesplits MLB equivalent, but not up to the luck adjustment. I’m not sure he’s any different than he was last year or the year before.

I’d still take him over GMJ, though.

by T Pac on Jun 3, 2010 3:15 PM EDT reply actions  

The only issue with taking GMJ over Feliciano

Is that GMJ got more than 30 games to prove himself. GMJ was a good call option. It was reasonable to take a chance that a change of scenery would get him going and he could get back some of his drug-fueled Rangers mojo. Once it was clear that a change of scenery only permitted GMJ to show his ineptitude to the East Coast, he should have been cut for Feliciano or Pridie. The fact that it took too long to do so was the problem. Likewise, if the Mets can’t get Ollie to accept an assignment, they should cut the selfish SOB and call up Misch, Acosta or Parnell.

by goquakers on Jun 3, 2010 3:29 PM EDT reply actions  

This is a good point

It takes the Mets so long to eventually make a break with these busts. They’ve given 65 plate appearances to Matthews (he’s K’d in 24 of them). That’s very significant, and a lot have come in high leverage situations.

Here is all you need know about GMJr. this year: there have been a total of 50 MEN ON BASE in his plate appearances. He’s driven in 1 of them.

The Mets FO acts like it doesn’t matter much who the 25th man on a team is, and that’s outrageous. He’s not a major leaguer, we all know it, the Mets have known it, but Omar Minaya hates to admit a mistake. He should be fired based on his stubbornness alone.

by David G on Jun 3, 2010 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

The only reason he is here is a panic

With 2 centerfielders in bufffal Priddie or feliciano should of been up already

by Sir Tmac on Jun 3, 2010 7:57 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

could you be clearer

cuz I have no idea what you are saying

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Jun 3, 2010 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Manuel is at fault, as well.

If he’s going to insist that Mejia will be in the majors as long as he’s manager, he should be using that leverage to get dead weight like Matthews off the roster.

This is one of the things that people miss who claim that the manager doesn’t make much difference. Surely Matthews has cost at least one game versus a reasonably able player. The batting order madness has probably cost some useful fraction of a win. The small fraction of a win that Mejia might be worth over another middle reliever also used in low leverage situations has to be weighed against the simulated value Mejia would offer in the last months of the season as a starter had he spent the first part of the season in AAA as a starter. There are dozens of things like this that a manager is intimately involved in, and all of them make a difference in a team’s wins and losses. I don’t doubt Manuel has already cost the team a couple of wins, and will continue to cost the team wins until he’s shitcanned.

by Jack Str on Jun 3, 2010 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

considering how much he uses gmjr

he probably thinks he’s an integral bench piece

I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.

by Gina on Jun 3, 2010 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nice piece

“Sour grapes” can be justifiable, after all. Figueroa isn’t the only one who thinks that this organization handled him badly, and if he thinks so too, it doesn’t mean he’s wrong. After all, who else could possibly have a better handle on the poor decisions this team has made with its bench and on the margins of its roster than someone who was repeatedly directly affected by those bad decisions?

by anonymous on Jun 3, 2010 4:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Who else is on that list?

Heath Bell

. . .

Nothing else is coming to mind at the moment, but I swear there’s an entire roster out there.

by theflicker on Jun 3, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

you mean of players who have publicly talked about it?

or marginal players we’ve let go who would have been better than bench pieces we chose? Cause the latter you probably can’t put a whole team together with.

I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.

by Gina on Jun 3, 2010 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Heck if we're making dreams come true

Then why not pick me over GMJ? I’m a 45 (soon to be 46) year old former high school baseball player. Met fan since about 9 years old. Never made varsity but I did then log 20+ years in all sorts of industrial and rec softball leagues.

I can strike out a couple of times a week as easily as GMJ. I might even foul tip a couple. Prolly not.

by blains2000 on Jun 3, 2010 4:17 PM EDT reply actions  

The back

of our baseball cards are almost identical

"Great story. Compelling, and rich." ~ Ron Burgundy

"...and Gary Cooper slides into second base with a stand up double." ~ Ralph Kiner

by CTRefJay on Jun 3, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

the reason Ollie and GMJ are on the roster is simple:

MONEY.
WILPONS
and Omar.

"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"

by feslenraster on Jun 3, 2010 6:30 PM EDT reply actions  

GMJ is getting $2 million

It’s cheap to cut him

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Jun 3, 2010 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Apparently not for the Wilpons

There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ

The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?

by Syler on Jun 3, 2010 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not only cheap to cut him, but he might also accept an assignment.

Plus, if not Feliciano, there has to be someone out there for the ML minimum better than Matthews. Barring that, put a frickin corner OFer in CF if you have to instead of the guy with the 400 OPS who’s clearly, clearly done.

by Jack Str on Jun 3, 2010 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think all minor league lifers get a raw deal

They make pennies, and without them the player development system which so richly rewards the top few players can’t function. Figueroa is picking the wrong argument. Life should simply be a lot better as a minor leaguer, making the promotion (or lack thereof) less of a big deal. Maybe they need their own union, since the MLBPA clearly doesn’t care about them?

by yellomellojello on Jun 3, 2010 6:44 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

yeah, this is a very good point

I know threads about the players’ union get derailed a lot, and we don’t really need to have a whole discussion about this now, but this is in my view the most justified criticism of the MLBPA. The union primarily works for the interests of established big-leaguers, which isn’t actually the majority of the people it represents, and it’s allowed a huge gap — in pay and other issues — to open up between the few stars and the many roster-fillers. I think the union really should work a lot harder on improving the conditions that minor-league and part-time MLB players work under, rather than the fringe issues that would improve the established multimillionaires’ lives.

by anonymous on Jun 3, 2010 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

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