A Man, No Plan, Low Morale, Panama
by Rob Castellano on Jun 30, 2010 12:00 PM EDT
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PrintAs I'm sure you all guessed, this is a comprehensive look back at the handling of the Mets newest young homegrown talent, SS Ruben Tejada.
(Get it? The man is Omar, who clearly had no plan with Tejada, probably crushed his morale and the kid's from Panama? Yes, I know it's no longer a palindrome, shut up)
The fact that Tejada is doing what he is currently doing at the major league level is somewhat astounding. In short, this organization should be thanking Jesus, Allah, Buddha, whomever, that Tejada somehow made it through the wringer and came out on the other side resembling a productive major league player. For anyone that doesn't know, under the Omar Minaya/Tony Bernazard regime, the Mets have made it a practice of pushing minor leaguers (especially talented Latin players) extremely aggressively. And few took the brunt of that misguided strategy more than Tejada throughout his minor league career.
First off, it seems like we've been saying Tejada's name for a while now but people don't realize how short a time he spent in the minors. Start to finish, his minor league career spanned an even 300 games. Comparatively, Jose Reyes (who himself is another notorious case of prospect rushing as he famously made his Mets debut at age 19) had 343 games in the minors. Superstar Hanley Ramirez had 400 games before reaching the show. Even a player with a more similar skill set to Tejada, Cleveland's Asdrubal Cabrera, played in 429 minor league games. No matter how you slice it Tejada had a very short minor league career. And that would be fine if only he had warranted such handling...
Tejada's Path Through the Minors:
After signing, Tejada began his pro career at 17 years old in the the Venezuelan Summer League, but quickly played himself out of there by going .364/.466/.479 with three bombs, 16 stolen bases and a sterling 19:19 K to BB ratio in 149 PA's. Promoted to the Gulf Coast League, Tejada was still age-appropriate but suddenly facing stiffer competition. In the exact same amount of plate appearances, Tejada posted a .283/.401/.367 line with no homers, only two stolen bases but actually improved his K:BB (16:19). He slowed down considerably but still an impressive showing from a 17 year old.
Then take into account his potentially great defense at short and suddenly Tejada was starting to become someone worth getting excited over. Unfortunately, come spring assignment time the Mets got too excited. Forget short-season ball, he's skipping Kingsport. And while we're at it Brooklyn too. Like current Mets prospect Wilmer Flores, Tejada was one of those rare 18 year olds to start the year in a full-season league. Except Tejada skipped Lo-A Savannah too.
Egregious Error #1: In his first full season as a pro, with 35 games in America under his belt, Ruben Tejada played his entire age 18 season at Hi-A St. Lucie. This is a level with an average age around 23, a level that many consider THE biggest leap forward in the minors, except instead of Lo-A he was leaping from Venezuela. For those unfamiliar with the minors, I can't even explain the disparity between these levels. Wilmer Flores is a special talent and he just reached Hi-A as basically a 19 year old, only after a year and a half at Lo-A. Tejada was 18 and regularly facing off against players who were upwards of six years his senior...and it showed. He posted a line of .229/.293/.296, stole only eight bases (with five caught stealing) and hit only two home runs and 25 XBH for a pitcher-like ISO (Power) of .066. On defense, the speed of the game ate the soft-handed shortstop alive as he made 30 errors. It was obvious he wasn't ready and nothing made that more clear than his K:BB, a strength from previous stops which at St. Lucie plummeted to 77:41.
Ok, next spring comes and at this point we should be realizing our mistake. No harm in sending him back to Savannah which is still high level, full-season baseball. I suppose we could try the sink-or-swim approach, leave him at Hi-A where he's still grossly underage hoping he figures things out at the risk of overexposing him. Or there's option #3...
Egregious Error #2: Following a season where Tejada, BY FAR the youngest player in the league, struggled mightily at Hi-A, the Mets actually promoted him to Double-A Binghamton. The average age in Double-A is 25 years old; Tejada was 19. There should be laws against this. Honestly, the kid was drowning and what does Tony Bernazard do? Straps a lead weight to his legs called 'Major League-ready pitching'. Go get 'em kid. It is a testament to Tejada's talent that he somehow managed to stay above water that year despite still displaying some serious developmental flaws. His final line was .289/.351/.381 which looks OK but was boosted by some nice luck (.325 BABIP). He did hit five homers yet his ISO remained pretty awful at .091 (the very same figure Mike Pelfrey posted in his season at Binghamton). His K:BB improved (59:37) but that basically meant it went from horrid to just plain bad.
All in all it was a pretty rough 19 year old season where he scrapped and fought to improve even the slightest bit, while pitted against guys six or seven years his senior. It really wasn't fair for him but fortunately his raw talent kept him from going under and fading away into failed prospectdom. So again, it's spring, last season Tejada had to claw and fight to hold onto mediocrity. Should we let him catch his breath? Hell no.
Egregious Error #3: In 2010, the Mets once again aggressively promoted Tejada, this time to Triple-A Buffalo. At 20 years old he was the youngest player to play for the Bisons in 17 years. Oh yeah, that's definitely the kind of record you want to break. Incredibly, in a league where the average age is 27.4, Tejada's short 2010 season in Buffalo was a solid one. His defense at short had become tremendous while he also learned to excel at second. His improbable .294 average was just shy of the International League's Top 10. On the downside, his plate discipline still hasn't had the chance to catch up to his level as he walked only 10 times versus 28 strikeouts. But overall, the call-up to the major leagues was the first one that wasn't laughably inane and with his performance thus far we're seeing why.
Some people may look at all this and say "Hey, the Mets were right. Tony B. somehow knew Tejada could be pushed and it worked out". But the lesson to learn here is that the ends don't justify the means. Yes, it worked with Tejada. Somehow it miraculously worked but it was despite the best efforts of the Mets, not because of them. We got lucky. Period. For every success story like this is a kid like current Mets farmers Richard Lucas or Juan Lagares who end up losing years of development for having been pushed too hard. SB Nation prospect Guru John Sickels stated "(the Mets) tend to rush their Latin American signees very fast. I'm not sure that's the right strategy with every player." More visible examples are top prospects Fernando Martinez and Jenrry Mejia, both having briefly reached the peak only to stumble back down as a result of poor foundations. Even Tejada himself still shows flaws in his game (namely his plate discipline) that were once strengths and with more time to develop might still be.
Either way we should all rejoice now that we're free of Tony Bernazard's tyranny and even better, Omar actually brought in someone with a clue as the new Minor league Field Coordinator, Terry Collins. What does Collins think about all this?
"We’re going to try to slow the process down just a bit. I know everybody wants to rush players to the big leagues. I think that can be a hindrance as much as it can be a help....So when the time is right, we’re going to challenge them. But to put them over their heads right now and let them drown, I don’t think that’s fair."
-from this recent Q& A with NJ.com
Music to my ears.
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Long live Terry Collins
Nice to see at least one area of our bureaucracy isn’t totally inept
"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage
by blueandorange4life on Jun 30, 2010 12:10 PM EDT reply actions
It's called tough love, you pansy
Look where Tejada is now. He’s awesomesauce. He’s like a young Alex Cora. How could you not see the plan? Cora is the smartest player on the team.
I'm not a proponent of rushing players
but you offer absolutely no evidence that rushing Tejada was a bad thing. This post basically comes down to “The Mets rushed Tejada, and with one exception he’s actually performed very well each time, but I say that rushing them is a bad idea and therefore it is, so the Mets front office is incompetent.”
I just don’t really understand the point of this post, I guess – I’d think you’d focus on someone who burnt out at a lower level, or maybe counter with some examples of guys who weren’t rushed and who saw their numbers get better over time.
The only evidence you give is the plate discipline, but do we really know that if he hadn’t been rushed, his plate discipline would be better right now? Sure, his numbers might look more respectable, but is a prospect better off dominating guys who are below him than struggling against guys who are above him? Would he really be learning plate discipline like that?
2009 Did Not Happen
by cjmulrain on Jun 30, 2010 12:28 PM EDT reply actions 8 recs
this
“They made a bunch of horrible decisions, and, yeah, they worked out, but don’t try this again!!!!” What’s missing is “because . . . [evidence].” The only real argument offered is:
For every success story like this is a kid like current Mets farmers Richard Lucas or Juan Lagares who end up losing years of development for having been pushed too hard
.
Well, yeah — but minor leaguers flame out all the time. Old, young, whatever. Was Brad Holt “rushed”?
well holt was a college pitcher, it's hard to rush college players.
f-marts been rushed to mix results, gomez was horribly rushed. I’m indifferent to the idea of rushing/non rushing, but it seems like we have more evidence of it not working than we have of it working, especially considering even at this point Tejada’s only expected to be a utility type-average player.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
The point was that Holt flamed out
after a solid start even though he wasn’t necessarily “rushed.” It’s yet another case where you can’t control the experiment — you can’t go back and not rush Martinez or Tejada.
power
I think Ruben may develop a little more power than presently believed. It’s hard to say because he is so young. He’s about the same size as Lou Whitaker when he came up young, and it took Whitaker a few full seasons before he even hit 5 homers. He likely won’t reach Whitaker’s peak. Whitaker walked more when he first came up, and he ended up the kind of guy who could hit 20 homers more than once. I know Ruben looks like he doesn’t have it in him now, but I think being 20, his 5 homers last year, the bullet he hit off the wall at Citi a few days ago, he just seems like he is more projectible then most are saying. Give him 4-5 years and i could see him hitting 10-15, and with his contact abilites and fielding i think he could be much more than a utility guy.
whoa
I like Tejada, but I think Lou Whitaker is a pretty optimistic projection – if Tejada is a 5 time all-star and 4 time silver slugger, I’ll eat my hat (and it will taste delicious)
2009 Did Not Happen
yes, which is why
I said he likely wouldn’t match Whitaker’s power, specifically mentioning that Lou hit 20+ homers a few times (maxing at 28), and saying Ruben might get to 10-15, which is a wild guess, but informed by his hitting 5 in AA at 19. I was merely suggesting that you wouldn’t have thought Whitaker would meet that power level either. He was 5’11" 160 lbs (about tejada’s size). Came up at 20-21. Never hit more than 3 in the minors. Hit 0, 3, 3, 1 and 5 in his age 20-24 seasons. ISOs of .31, .72, .92 .50, .110.
Of course, countless guys like that never develop power at all. But it is really hard to say Tejada will never develop power at all. He doesn’t look all that slappy to me, and he’s still a kid.
Reyes and Wright,
especially Reyes were pushed very fast through the minors. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. If we are going to criticize these guys for every mistake, which there are a lot of, let’s give them some credit when they bring up a Tejada, an advanced kid ready to help our team for a young age.
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
Wright rushed?
Don’t confuse young players moving up with being rushed. Wright tore up every level he played, and immediately so. Also, he did not skip any levels…
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/W/David-Wright.shtml
formerly known around these parts as nycbroncosfan
by Douglas A. Lee on Jun 30, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry, you didn’t say “rushed”. But I think “pushed” is a bit much, too. Wright played his way out of every assignment.
formerly known around these parts as nycbroncosfan
by Douglas A. Lee on Jun 30, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Tejada's plate discipline
I don’t even see it as a problem. He’s not walking a lot, but it’s not because he’s swinging at a lot of pitches out of the zone — he’s actually been quite patient at the plate.
+1
Tejada has shown that he goes against the typical Latin American prospects who are big upside with very little concept of the fundamental side of baseball. Tejada is ridiculously advanced for a 20 year old and holds little upside. I hope he is our 2B for at least the rest of the year.
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
I think you're pushing it
when you’re saying his BABIP in AA was very lucky at .325. Given he’s a speedy player which usually gives you an edge on BABIP, that’s not entirely unreasonable.
he's not a speedy player at all
he’s certainly not slow. But he’s not reyes, gomez, or pagan either. He’s like a 15-20 steals a year guy, for a comparison, and had speed scores in the 3s, which I believe is around average.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
SS (2009 – Power 35; First Base Rate 59; Discipline 75; Speed 80)
This is from Mack’s Mets blog. I’d say that’s a decently speedy player, enough to leg out some infield singles over the course of the year and naturally push up one’s BABIP.
by Lunkwill Fook on Jun 30, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
im not really sure what's thats based on though
cause his minor league numbers, and pretty much every other scouting report I’ve seen, don’t rate him anywhere near 80 speed.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
yeah but I don't really think that says much about his speed
more about his base running skills, there’s a lot of guys who are efficient base runners without being burners.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Well
with the scouting report above and the 19 of 22 steals, I’d say there’s some solid evidence that he has speed. do you have contradictory evidence?
dont know how fangraphs ranks speed, or if it is reliable for minor leaguers
but his 5.5 was his minor league high and jason bay currently has a 7.5. though his previous high was 5.5
stats, they are seriously never in Francoeur's favor
65 speed score from the baseball cube
and the fact that nearly every scouting report points out he’s not a toolsy super athletic IFA guy, and I would think scouts would say someone with 80/80 speed has at least one stand out tool?
When one thinks of a Latin American shortstop (Tejada is Panamanian), the expectation is a raw athlete oozing with tools — but Tejada is the exact opposite.
source
Even Ruben Tejada, who’s a little above average as a runner, is not particularly toolsy for a young international SS.
Ruben Tejada, SS (AAA, MLB)
Tejada is the antithesis of Havens in that he profiles as a shortstop, runs a litter better, probably a 50 or 55 on the scouting scale, but may not hit enough to warrant a regular gig. .
http://prospectinsider.com/view/the-cliff-lee-contenders-and-their-assets/
The initial scouting reports from places like BA and BP generally settled on solid, non-impact player, most likely a back-up middle infielder. This stemmed from the fact that his defense was more solid than good, that he’s tiny and is unlikely to ever hit for much power, and doesn’t have blazing speed.
John Manuel: Shaw almost made it; Ruben Tejada had his supporters but his tools really don’t stand out according to anyone I talked to. He was most impressive for grinding out a long season as a teenager, through the Fla. State League and then Hawaii. But there’s not a tool that gets scouts or managers raving.
source
And I can’t get the more recent BP reports but from 2007.
10. Ruben Tejada, 2B/SS
DOB: 9/1/89
Height/Weight: 5-11/165B
Bats/Throws: R/R Acquired: NDFA, 2006, Panama
2007 Stats: .283/.401/.367 at Rookie-level (35 G)
Year In Review: A previously obscure Panamanian, Tejada put up a .400+ on-base percentage in the Gulf Coast League in his stateside debut.
The Good: Tejada earns high praise from Mets officials for his advanced approach (he walked more than he struck out) and his baseball intelligence. He has a line-drive bat and uses all fields, and he shows excellent fundamentals defensively.
The Bad: Unlike most Latin American teenagers, Tejada isn’t especially toolsy. He has little power or projection for any, and his speed and arm are both no more that average, leaving him with the likely profile of a second baseman in the end.
Fun Fact: Tejada hit just .186 with the bases empty, but more than doubled that with a .377 mark with runners on base.
Perfect World Projection: An everyday second baseman and ideal No. 2 hitter in the lineup.
Timetable: Tejada might lack upside, but his polish is more than enough to handle a full-season debut at Low-A as an 18-year-old.
-Baseball Prospectus
And even with 19 stolen bases he wasn’t anywhere near the top of the eastern league in stolen bases, which is something you would expect from someone with 80/80 speed.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
by Gina on Jun 30, 2010 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Funny
In researching, I can pretty much find as many sources that say he has above average speed.
by Lunkwill Fook on Jun 30, 2010 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions
i will believe it when i see it
yes that is a challenge to match gina, good luck. i dont know if it can be done
stats, they are seriously never in Francoeur's favor
yeah above average speed
which is like 55-65 on the 20-80 scale. Not 80/80. 80-/0 is elite speed. If he was an 80-80 guy he’d be considered a much better prospect than he has been, because of the base running stolen base impact he could have. David Wright has above average speed, the elite speed guys are the ones who post inflated BABIP numbers because of beating out grounders, like Luis Castillo in his younger years or Elsbury/Reyes etc now. I’m sure you can find plenty sources that say he’s above average, but not many who say he’ll be big impact base stealing and/or has elite speed.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
I guess I understand your point but...
no offense its not like you saw him play on a daily basis you have to trust the organizational people in their judgment despite how incompetent you think they are. I would actually trust your decision making less than Tony B, stating that the average age of a player in AAA is 27 means absolutely nothing. By even implying that average age should be taken into consideration of promotions detracts from your entire argument.
It is a bit silly
taking into account average age in factoring whether or not to promote, that is. I guess I’ve learned to expect horrible applications of the general to the particular. It’s sort of like saying you’d rather have Ollie starting for you than Jamie Moyer because his age is closer to league average, or to the ages of pitchers in their primes.
Also, cynic that I am, I might be tempted to think Tejada lied about his age . . . until looking at him, that is. If anything, he inflated his age by five years.
On Tejada
I’m really not convinced he is ever going to be an every day player anyway. I doubt he’ll hit .300. He doesn’t walk enough and has very little power. His glove will make sure he has a job for a long while, but it’s not like he was ever a toolsy, high upside guy. Pretty much every prospect maven says he is what he is.
I guess it makes more sense to rush him since he was polished, versus someone like F-Mart who has basically had one good full year in the minors then been hurt or not really hit every year since.
by Jeffrey Paternostro on Jun 30, 2010 1:20 PM EDT reply actions
he walked quite a bit in the minors I believe
I think a Luis Castillo type, if he can keep up contact rates, is a pretty reasonable projection.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Luis Castillo-Ruben Tejada
Tejada really isn’t in Castillo’s class as a walker. Castillo’s isolated disciplines (OBA-BA) in the minors were phenomenal and very consistent. In the .090 to .120 point range, and they didn’t fall off the higher he rose in the system. Tejada’s are around .060, at least since the VSL and GCL.
Tejada’s really nowhere near the prospect Castillo was, but Castillo was a great player for three years and a good one for over a decade.
Yeah, what he said
His walk rate dropped at every level, and he doesn’t have enough power to keep pitchers from challenging him with strikes.
The comparison I would use is the infield version of Juan Pierre, though I don’t think his batting average will be quite as high, as he Ks more than Pierre.
I should say I do actually like Tejada a decent bit, but if Havens can stay healthy and even play a passable 2b he is clearly the future there. I would have no problem moving Tejada in a package right now.
by Jeffrey Paternostro on Jun 30, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Has anyone actually done an objective study on the effect being rushed has on players?
I’ve heard a lot of people criticize the Mets for rushing prospects, but I’ve never seen any attempt to provide evidence that this is actually a harmful strategy for development. Maybe it shatters their confidence, maybe it overwhelms them. Or maybe Tony B’s philosophy of challenging players as much as they can possibly handle is actually correct. Who knows? Not scouts and pundits who are just repeating conventional wisdom.
Arguably it’s harmful to the trade value of a prospect to be sent to struggle at a higher level, which is a genuine concern for a GM, but a somewhat separate issue.
A couple errors in your article: Wilmer is still 18 for another month or so, not 20. It’s true that Tejada’s K/BB ratios regressed, but they didn’t become “horrid”. The average NL K/BB this year is 2.15. Ruben K/BB in A+, AA and AAA was a bit better than that, 1.86.
the trade value thing
is the number 1 reason I think it’s a horrible idea. Although on the other hand I imagine F-marts value 2 years ago in AA was MUCH higher than it is now.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Almost entirely because of his inability to stay healthy
And I don’t think that had much to do with being rushed through the minors.
eh that's a big role
but I think the awful bb/k ratio and obp numbers and the fact he won’t play a premium position hurts nearly as much.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
has he doubled his year to date total all ready?
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
And a double in 2 at bats today
By the end of the season, Fernando will have .343/.788/.992 with 75 homers, 90 doubles and 199 BBs
making an out 20% of the time
lame
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
i bet that leads to a solid wOBA
but how many rbiz??? is he a run pr0ducer?
stats, they are seriously never in Francoeur's favor
Tony B lives on forever in the mind of Mets prospects.........
The one and only mistermet on teh Interwebz!
by Steve Schreiber on Jun 30, 2010 2:13 PM EDT reply actions 8 recs
This is terrible.
Rec’d.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Jun 30, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
why is he semi ripped?
i cant tell whether to flag or rec, but i wouldnt flag humor
stats, they are seriously never in Francoeur's favor
Part of it's the picture
but mostly it is my awesome Mac Paintbrush skills. Some of the background ended up covering the body, so I had to add a little extra “skin” to the sides. I’m working on a Macbook with a trackpad, so combined with my 1st grade level motor skills, it came out just the way I imagined it!
The one and only mistermet on teh Interwebz!
by Steve Schreiber on Jun 30, 2010 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions
i didnt notice the skin to the side but when you pointed it out i lauged a lot
just think he should be rather fat
stats, they are seriously never in Francoeur's favor
Yeah it was a tough decision
I almost went with a fat body but ultimately I decided he should be sort of ripped. What made matters worse was that I made this while sitting at a table in the public library with my laptop, so I didn’t want to be searching google for “shirtless men” for too long…people might get the wrong idea about me if they’re walking by or if anybody is monitoring the sites I’m visiting.
The one and only mistermet on teh Interwebz!
by Steve Schreiber on Jul 1, 2010 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions
The collar is to show that he’s still classy despite being half naked.
by Lunkwill Fook on Jun 30, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I think we've officially set the bar too low for our 2b
when Tejada is getting this kind of praise. Yes, he’s done okay. He also has an OPS of .657 and an OPS+ of 79. Has having Castillo and Cora for so long made us accepting of this kind of offense? You are allowed to have some offense from the 2b position. I think Tejada could be a nice role player and an excellent back up middle infielder. Nothing about him screams major league regular, especially since he doesn’t have speed to make up for his weak bat. I don’t want him starting in 2011 if someone like Havens, who has exhibited power and plate discipline, is healthy. Tejada should be plan B.
Hence why he projects more as a defensive specialist
than an everyday player.
Just an unconvincing article
So a player appears to be pushed, beyond his age and performance, to the high minors and the majors. He actually shows that he can competently handle each level (even if not blow it away). This is a problem how exactly?
Why do we care about the average age of the league?
If a “prospect” is 27 years old and crushing it in AAA aren’t we curious as to why he hasn’t broken into the Majors yet? Don’t most MLB starters break in before they’re 25?
"Seriously, Lana, call Kenny Loggins ‘cause you’re in the danger zone."
in this case its because he wasn't crushing it in the lower league
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Jun 30, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I generally agree
While Ruben has basically done fine, my intuition tells me it is in spite of, not because of, the process, and there will be a lingering doubt in my mind as to whether an extra year in the low minors would have helped bump him up to potentially excellent player (especially with regard to plate discipline).
come on
a man, a plan, a canal, panama
am i the only nerd who was into palindromes in 4th grade?
by Rob Castellano on Jun 30, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
oooooooooh
I’m like “‘a man, a plan, low morale, panama’ isn’t a palindrome.” I’m sure you’ve seen this:
Dammit I’m mad.
Evil is a deed as I live.
God, am I reviled? I rise, my bed on a sun, I melt.
To be not one man emanating is sad. I piss.
Alas, it is so late. Who stops to help?
Man, it is hot. I’m in it. I tell.
I am not a devil. I level "Mad Dog".
Ah, say burning is, as a deified gulp,
In my halo of a mired rum tin.
I erase many men. Oh, to be man, a sin.
Is evil in a clam? In a trap?
No. It is open. On it I was stuck.
Rats peed on hope. Elsewhere dips a web.
Be still if I fill its ebb.
Ew, a spider… eh?
We sleep. Oh no!
Deep, stark cuts saw it in one position.
Part animal, can I live? Sin is a name.
Both, one… my names are in it.
Murder? I’m a fool.
A hymn I plug, deified as a sign in ruby ash,
A Goddam level I lived at.
On mail let it in. I’m it.
Oh, sit in ample hot spots. Oh wet!
A loss it is alas (sip). I’d assign it a name.
Name not one bottle minus an ode by me:
"Sir, I deliver. I’m a dog"
Evil is a deed as I live.
Dammit I’m mad.
In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni
translates to:
We Spin Around the Night Consumed by the Fire
by secret defense on Jun 30, 2010 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
now thats an awesome palindrome
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Jun 30, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I really like this, and all of Demitri Martin's stuff.
But I can’t for the life of me actually watch him perform. He’s horrid. He’s hilarious, and extremely intelligent, but his shows suck.
John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.
He has a great stand up
His show isn’t bad. It should be better though, given how smart and funny he is.
The standup doesn't really do it for me.
It’s just so nontraditional that I don’t end up laughing. Parts of it are great, and that just makes the rest of it so frustrating. I’m constantly searching to see if I missed something funny, but often it’s that I heard it, and it IS funny, but his delivery was off.
John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.
I like it for one line alone
“glitter, the herpes of craft supplies”
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Jul 1, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't think Tejada has been that good.
He plays very good defense, but a .299 wOBA is just not good. He has lots of time to improve, I think Havens has a better chance of being the second baseman of the future.
by EtSuKe on Jun 30, 2010 4:52 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Yeah I would tend to agree
But I would like to see Tejada as the long term third MI, spelling both Reyes and Havens and potentially getting a few more at bats at 2B (not a full platoon situation but perhaps a bit towards one)
i'd prefer to see him in a trade package
before he cements himself as no more than a long-term middle infielder backup
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Depending on what he got back
(i.e. in that scenario you want to be getting back a bit more than “fair value”, the implication being that the Mets ‘fool’ someone into thinking he can be a regular) I would agree
ouch tough crowd today
apparently i whiffed on this one.
point taken about the lack of evidence for my position, going in i knew that would be an issue especially on a site where stats-based facts come first but philosophical decisions regarding aggressive minor league promotions are nearly entirely subjective in nature. someone asked why there’s been no objective study of the topic and it’s because such a study would be a fool’s errand. to parse the guys who warranted a fast pace from those that were rushed or those that just ran out of talent halfway up the ladder from those that flamed out as a result of premature promotions just isn’t feasible.
the entire topic is one big gray area so to find support beyond the fact that just about every minor league analyst of note feels that climbing too quickly inhibits a player’s development and that the mets screwed the pooch with this methodology is a tough task. one of the very few widely accepted indicators in prospect circles is age in relation to the league, especially when it comes to teenagers; K:BB is also watched closely and i tried to include both of those factors. and of course there’s anecdotal support regarding other players, perhaps i should have gone into more detail about how poorly the whole mejia to bullpen thing went or how fmart’s K:BB has gotten worse with each resulting aggressive promotion; i can be long-winded so i always try to keep from writing a novel.
basically theres a ton of room for opinion here and i decided to share mine. as always, you can agree, disagree or anything in between. at the very least i thought it was interesting to take a closer look at such an unorthodox path to the majors.
It is interesting
The simple fact that he was the Bisons’ youngest player for seventeen years makes the whole topic worth discussing and thinking about carefully.
fair point that there's not much solid evidence on this, but how about collecting more expert opinion, then?
just about every minor league analyst of note feels that climbing too quickly inhibits a player’s development and that the mets screwed the pooch with this methodology
Source? I’d love to see more of the specific discussions from those “minor league analysts of note” than you’ve given here. Who says that the Mets muffed Tejada’s development, and why? Obviously, tautologically, everyone agrees that you shouldn’t push players up “too quickly.” The whole problem is how you know what’s “too quickly” — using what criteria, metrics, or methods do you decide? Though this piece is a good discussion-starter, I don’t see any of those specifics here.
one of the very few widely accepted indicators in prospect circles is age in relation to the league, especially when it comes to teenagers
But isn’t being one of the youngest players in a league, provided you’re able to hack it at all at that level, usually taken as a fantastic indicator of future major-league success? Why is it suddenly a bad thing in Tejada’s case?
I also think there is a big difference between hitters and pitcher abuse
Beating up pitching prospects is a lot easier and clear to see. The Mets seem to handle their pitchers pretty okay outside of Mejia. Pelf, Parnell and Niese probably should have been in AAA for half a season more before either got the initial call up, but it didn’t set them back too much. You could argue that Holt should have been demoted last year, but he seems to suffer from the Maine dead arm-itis rather than being overwhelmed by the higher competition.
The Mets love to promote positional players from AA directly to the majors, sometimes with a token stop at AAA. It’s almost like they only view AAA as a place to store washed up pitchers in case of injuries on the major league team. And than they fill out the everyday players with just random guys
i think thats how most teams handle their position players though
I can’t think of many teams who keep top prospect in AAA very long, it’s mostly filled with AAAA players for every team.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
That's what I figured
Other teams seems to have a couple real prospects at AAA due to them being blocked at the major league level. Ah, to have such problems must be great.
I think there's a middle ground between
rigorous, controlled empirical study (especially where many “controls” are impossible) and free-for-all. Expert analysis, quotes, anecdotal cases, some reasoning or mechanism as to why or how it stunts growth, etc. Generally, I think there were stronger reactions because you took a very strident tone, e.g., “Omar and the Mets’ brass are incompetent idiots: EXHIBIT A: Tejada. . . though he’s doing OK,” etc.
I generally agree that the Mets push guys too hard
But for such a low ceiling prospect like Tejada, I’m not that inclined to care. Fortunately, we haven’t had many top prospects to abuse under Tony B.
It’ll be interesting to see what Flores does in A+. The promotion seemed like odd timing as he was slumping bad in June. I don’t know if buy the theory that he was feeling unchallenged and hence started to hit 200.
Is he really that low-ceiling?
His floor seems to be all-glove no-stick SS/2B which isn’t exactly terrible.
He has very little power
I’m not saying he’ll never be a decent everyday player. But his ceiling is closer to Ryan Theriot than Chase Utley. He has real talent though, much more than Argenis Reyes or whatever middle infield scrub we usually bring up.
Ugh...Argenis
Just had some flashbacks to that woeful 0 for 20 something stretch he had back in ’08, where Jerry kept playing him anyway. And batting him near the top of the lineup, too. Good times.
Awful Reyes was awful
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Jun 30, 2010 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions
And less walks
Tejada might actually hit a couple HRs, he’s got the proverbial doubles power and not an out and out slap hitter
maybe castellano is an adam rubin lacky and has to write something negative ,maybe this fall the mets win the world series in 5 games and he will write they should have won it in 4 games
omg i have read this sentiment on metsblog
i have a guess of who this is
stats, they are seriously never in Francoeur's favor
An argument against rushing ANY minor leaguer, including Tejada,
is economics. Tejada is barely holding his own this year. The Mets are burning up one of the six years they’ll control Tejada once he’s in the majors in order to have a player on the 25-man roster who is slightly better than Alex Cora. That’s quite simply a waste, and a stupid thing to do.
There’s no argument that Tejada would not have benefitted from at least one full year in AAA, and the Mets wouldn’t be sacrificing part of the single most valuable commodity in major league baseball: a young player with less than six years service time.
To be fair
I’m sure he was penciled in for a full year of AAA until Castillo got hurt and Cora stunk even by his standards.
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