USS Mariner: Elite Players Have Strong Intangibles

This might be the new Moneyball. We have been told for years that gritty character guys like Alex Cora and Jeff Francoeur provide the strongest intangible/leadership qualities to a ballclub. This piece, guest written by Mike Salk of ESPN Radio, conveys the intangible effect an elite player like Joe Mauer has on others. Such a novel concept -- strong performance by a great player makes others better. Not smiles. Not gee-golly quotes to beat writers. Not making your own splints when your thumbs fall off. Just strong on-field performance. Happy Friday.

almost 2 years ago James Kannengieser 15 comments 0 recs |

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This can't be right

Being a douche like Dicktorino clearly is the most important quality in a baseball player. ESPN says so over and over.

Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...

by Stephen Schmidt on Jun 4, 2010 3:29 PM EDT reply actions

You mixed it up

Elite players have strong tangibles.. Bad players don’t have those, hence the negative prefix “in-”.

by Pack Bringley on Jun 4, 2010 3:43 PM EDT reply actions

im sure that the fact that mauer's team succeeds has nothing to do with justin morneau

it’s all the grission that he provides through intangibles and incredible leadership that see this team through.

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by danielreese05 on Jun 4, 2010 4:07 PM EDT reply actions

Is that a Bichon or Poodle in your avatar pic?

by Evan_S on Jun 5, 2010 1:45 AM EDT up reply actions

"Underaged

Bichon"

by wobatus on Jun 5, 2010 8:23 AM EDT up reply actions

Hanley

just tangibly cost his team tonight’s game by jaking it. Great player. Wins his team more games than he costs them. But he could do even better. A really bad player doesn’t make up for it by running out everything, taking out a guy (within reason and the rules) on a dp ball, etc. But at the margins, it all helps. It’s a question of getting the most out of what you have, talent-wise and opportunity-wise. And that goes for stars and scrubs.

I don’t get to see Mauer play enough, but I take it he plays the game right, as well as obviously playing it extremely well.

As for Frenchy, hopefully he is getting back into our good graces. So long as he sits against most righties. :)

by wobatus on Jun 4, 2010 10:12 PM EDT reply actions

Mauer

Mauer was actually knocked by some teammates a few years back for sitting out too long with minor injuries. He had the reputation for being soft.

by Mex_17 on Jun 4, 2010 10:48 PM EDT reply actions

that's weak

hadn’t heard that. Yeah, the Astros (not the players I don’t think) thought J.R. Richard was milking it and he had a stroke or something. Or Jerry with Church and the concussion, or that old SI article Catsmeat I think linked to earlier this year where Jerry questioned Frank Thomas’s toughness and he had a cyst or something the size of a golfball on his foot.

by wobatus on Jun 4, 2010 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions

The larger point here is that leaders have to be good at what they do.

The Francoeur/Cora leadership meme is and will always be laughable to me because they’re terrible players. I’m sure they’re sweet guys who have total respect from their teammates, but a world-class athlete in a competitive sport isn’t looking up to a player that’s worse than they are*. It’s just so implausible.

*The obvious exception here is the case of the post-prime superstar. They lead because they once performed at a high level. Besides making it to the big leagues, Cora and Francoeur have accomplished nothing. Take THAT, David Lennon.

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by All Shook Down on Jun 4, 2010 11:09 PM EDT reply actions

Frenchy

isn’t terrible. He’s used improperly. But I agree he really can’t be a leader, whatever that might entail. He should be a spare part.

by wobatus on Jun 4, 2010 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions

"used improperly"

Yeah, he could be a real solid leader in AA ball.

by anonymous on Jun 4, 2010 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions

Pagan's

wRC+ against lefties is 66 this year. Frenchy’s is 131. For their careers it is 77 to 115.

Angel pagan simply cannot hit lefties, or hasn’t. His career wOBA versus lefties (.299) is worse than Frenchy’s against righties. That’s bad. Jeff Francouer can. And his uzr is slightly below average the last few years, but that can be fairly flukey. He isn’t a butcher, has had quite good years out there. Pagan’s a very good fielder, but Jeff doesn’t kill you, so the vast difference against lefties suggests to me they should platoon to a degree when Beltran gets back, with Angel also as late game D sub, and also spelling Beltran some.

This is what I mean by using Frenchy properly.

Do you disagree that Francouer is better than your average hitter against lefties, that pagan is far worse against lefties than Francouer? That uzr fluctuates, isn’t a perfect metric (hell bay went from -18 in 2009 to positive when they tweaked it), and he is positive 6 per 150 for his career, so is a serviceable fielder most likely, and combine that with being a far better hitter against lefties, should have that role? RF against lefties?

Jesus feliciano also bats left, so he wouldn’t fill that role.

Tatis can fill that role too, but at this stage of his career I don’t know how much rf he’d play. He’s done ok, but in small samples.

I just think it’s easy to focus on what he can’t do. They have him take all the ABs against righties, which makes him look crappy altogether, but it isn’t true. He’s useful if used correctly.

by wobatus on Jun 5, 2010 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions

Suppose

there’s a 3 game series against the Phillies after Beltran is back. The Phils will start Moyer, Happ and Hamels. You wouldn’t want Francouer to have some of those at-bats instead of Pagan?

I mean, I guess you could say just give those at-bats to Tatis. I think Francouer is likely a better fielder, although over small samples tatis has been fine.

I’m not saying keep him forever as a platoon rf. But for right now he is pretty good for that role. I really think this is a blind spot because there are so many more plate appearances against righties the overall line just makes it look like it is no contest, but really Pagan falls pretty short of Francouer aginst lefties.

by wobatus on Jun 5, 2010 1:33 AM EDT up reply actions