Nationals 2, Mets 1: Another Winnable Game Slips Away
by Eric Simon on Jul 1, 2010 10:20 PM EDT
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Sure, all games are technically winnable, but some are more winnable than others and this game was particularly winnable. Johan Santana had one of his best starts in a while, striking out seven and allowing just a run on six hits and two walks in seven innings. Livan Hernandez was Santana's equal tonight, likewise allowing just one run and whiffing seven over seven frames.
So it came down to a battle of bullpens and managerial wits, and the Mets came up short in both departments. Elmer Dessens and Pedro Feliciano teamed up to get through the eighth, but Feliciano allowed three of the first four batters he faced to reach base in the ninth -- one was an impressive bunt single by Nyjer Morgan -- and the Mets were in a pickle. Why Feliciano was pitching at all instead of Francisco Rodriguez can only be explained by the vagaries of save-era closer usage. With the bases loaded and just one out, Jerry Manuel called on Ryota Igarashi to end the game quickly get out of the jam, and went with an astonishingly nonsensical interesting defensive alignment to boot. Jesus Feliciano was brought in to be a fifth infielder, with Angel Pagan and Jeff Francoeur playing basically straight-up center and left field against the righty-hitting Ryan Zimmerman. It didn't much matter as Zimmerman hit a sacrifice fly to Francoeur to bring home Willie Harris with the winning run.
Returning to Santana for a moment, the proof of his encouraging start runs deeper than the macro results. He induced 15 swinging strikes on his 97 pitches, good for a 15.4% rate that was much higher than in any of his June starts.
| Date | Opp | SwStr | #Pitches | SwStr% |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 6/2 | SD | 8 | 123 | 6.5% |
| 6/10 | SD | 4 | 108 | 3.7% |
| 6/15 | CLE | 7 | 103 | 6.8% |
| 6/20 | NYY | 8 | 114 | 7.0% |
| 6/26 | MIN | 10 | 105 | 9.5% |
| 7/1 | WAS | 15 | 97 | 15.4% |
Yes, this time was against the Nationals, but while the Yankees and Twins don't strike out much, the Indians are on par with the Nats, whiff-wise, and the Padres strike out more than either. The news gets even better, because the dominance of Santana's changeup was in full effect tonight. The change has long been an important weapon for Santana; when it's going well he can keep hitters off-balance and get them to flail uselessly as they swing far too early to make contact with it. How good was Santana's changeup? Better than one out of every four that he threw was swung at and missed. Here's a look at swinging strikes on his change tonight as well as in his June starts.
| Date | Opp | SwStr | #Pitches | SwStr% |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 6/2 | SD | 6 | 36 | 16.7% |
| 6/10 | SD | 3 | 39 | 7.7% |
| 6/15 | CLE | 3 | 24 | 12.5% |
| 6/20 | NYY | 2 | 24 | 8.3% |
| 6/26 | MIN | 1 | 21 | 4.8% |
| 7/1 | WAS | 6 | 22 | 27.3% |
That's awfully nice. One great start against the Nationals isn't irrefutable evidence for a dramatic turnaround, but it's undoubtedly a propitious sign from the Mets' would-be ace.
That the Mets even came close to winning this game is a little surprising considering the starting lineup they fielded.
| Player | Post-game OPS |
|---|---|
| Feliciano | .646 |
| Tejada | .630 |
| Wright | .929 |
| Davis | .763 |
| Francoeur | .720 |
| Carter | .684 |
| Blanco | .764 |
| Cora | .577 |
Yuck. The loss knocks the Mets two games back of the idle Braves, but they remain two games ahead of the Phillies, who lost to the even-cruddier Pirates. Jon Niese takes on Luis Atilano Friday night at 7:05pm.
Poem by Howard Megdal
Santana was dominant, with his pitch count thrifty
But Mets were shut down by a man nearing fifty
I can't say the ninth inning strategy's great
Leaving game to pitcher with ERA over eight
SB Nation Coverage
* Traditional Recap
* Boxscore
* Amazin' Avenue Gamethread
* Federal Baseball Gamethread
Win Probability Added
Big winners: Johan Santana, +28.1% WPA, Jason Bay, +3.2% WPA
Big losers: Ryota Igarashi, -16.3% WPA, Jeff Francoeur, -12.7% WPA
Teh aw3s0mest play: Desmond fielder's choice in eighth, +11.0% WPA
Teh sux0rest play: Morgan RBI single in seventh, -19.4% WPA
Total pitcher WPA: +4.0% WPA
Total batter WPA: -54.0% WPA
GWRBI!: Ryan Zimmerman
Game Thread Roll Call
Nice job by KeithsMoustache; his effort in the game thread embiggens us all.
| Num | Name | # of Posts |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | KeithsMoustache | 111 |
| 2 | astromets | 105 |
| 3 | Gina | 98 |
| 4 | aparkermarshall | 80 |
| 5 | CTRefJay | 71 |
| 6 | fxcarden | 61 |
| 7 | Jadden Hopkins | 60 |
| 8 | Brian. | 51 |
| 9 | Michkin | 50 |
| 10 | DavidE | 50 |
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Comments
anybody else get this feeling tonight, a lot?
stats, they are seriously never in Francoeur's favor
Jerryball
I still want to know why he went with Igarashi over Parnell. Harder to pull a 95-97 mph fastball.
I support Jenrry Mejia as a starter. Screw you Jerry Manuel for thinking he's a set-up man.
or krod
stats, they are seriously never in Francoeur's favor
jerrys thoughts exactly
stats, they are seriously never in Francoeur's favor
I know why he didn't go with K-Rod
I’ve gotten used to that
I support Jenrry Mejia as a starter. Screw you Jerry Manuel for thinking he's a set-up man.
Bringing in Dessens was even dumber than bringing in Feliciano
A soft tossing righty against the heart of the Nats lineup? He’s lucky the Mets didn’t lose in the 8th
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?
This is Manuel--
he couldn’t optimize the rotation in April or May. He’s usually unable to optimize the lineup. I wish I was surprised that he couldn’t optimize the bullpen, but…
Remember the 20-inning game with St. Louis? Manuel pushed Roddy’s appearance in the game as far back as he could, for no reason anyone could fathom, other than
1) he wanted to get all the Mets worse relief pitchers a chance to lose the game, and
2) he was baffled and confused by the lack of a standard Save situation, so waited until he was out of other options and relievers
by Jack Str on Jul 2, 2010 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So, exactly, how many times does Pedro Feliciano has to fail in a spot like this
before Jerry realizes that he should only be pitching to lefties? Five? Ten? Twenty?
If there's ever a riot at Citi Field and Oliver Perez was the starter, I started the riot.
I don't get it at all
We’re blessed with possibly the best lefty specialist in all of baseball, and we’re putting him in for two innings at a time against righties until his arm falls apart and/or he finally fails.
Of course you don't get it.
You’re thinking logically. Jerry is on an entirely different plane. Sure you can pitch Pedro against lefties only, that’s the easy way. Jerry thinks it’s platform diving and you get bonus points for degree of difficulty.
From Fred to Jeff
and O to Jerr
Funny things
Are everywhere
- Dr. Seuss (if he were a Mets fan)
Did he try the triple lundy?
If not, no points for degree of difficulty.
Though the difference between Jerry and the man who can do the triple lundy is that the former gets too much respect and the latter not enough.
Hey Mellon!!
We need ya!!
My 5-year old daughter even hates the Ravens.
by SundaysWithTroy on Jul 2, 2010 5:48 AM EDT up reply actions
9 walkoff losses
A team should never have that many in a season, let alone one half
Tomorrow is an absolute must win if we want any chance of salvaging this trip
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?
This type of game is lost by poor managing from the opening line up
through the walk off loss.Poor managers lose a lot of close games which Jerry seems to fit the mold.
by Putnan Prince on Jul 1, 2010 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions
In a thread last week I predicted Jerry would lose 8-10 games for the Mets this year.
This definitely contributes some fraction of a game towards that total.
he will lose double that, easily
My 5-year old daughter even hates the Ravens.
by SundaysWithTroy on Jul 2, 2010 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions
in fact, he's already lost 8-10
My 5-year old daughter even hates the Ravens.
by SundaysWithTroy on Jul 2, 2010 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Name them
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?
haha
you guys are hilarious
Having a life (and a family) prevents me from having the time to do insane things like this. Results speak for themselves. I certainly apologize if that doesn’t make you happy. Feel free to internet bully me for not having time to back up my statement.
My 5-year old daughter even hates the Ravens.
by SundaysWithTroy on Jul 2, 2010 1:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh I'm sorry I expect people to back up bullshit assertions with facts
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?
when will you start then?
My 5-year old daughter even hates the Ravens.
by SundaysWithTroy on Jul 2, 2010 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions
let me know
My 5-year old daughter even hates the Ravens.
by SundaysWithTroy on Jul 2, 2010 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions
oh God of the internet
My 5-year old daughter even hates the Ravens.
by SundaysWithTroy on Jul 2, 2010 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions
seriously
is there a person more negative than you?
My 5-year old daughter even hates the Ravens.
by SundaysWithTroy on Jul 2, 2010 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Woah
I’m definitely not a pessimist
Look, Jerry Manuel is a moron and he isn’t qualified to work at McDonalds, let alone manage a team.
But with what he’s had to work with, I just really doubt that any manager would’ve fared that much better.
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?
I'll give you that he has had a badly put together team
but that doesn’t excuse things like starting Matthews over Pagan
or Ollie
or Cattalanotto
or Maine
or Mejia in the pen
or many of the awful mistakes early on last year
My 5-year old daughter even hates the Ravens.
by SundaysWithTroy on Jul 2, 2010 1:23 AM EDT up reply actions
and sorry for calling you a pessimist
it’s been an awful night, I watched the game with two Cardinal fans, a Yankee fan and a Red Sox fan
believe me, they let me have it
My 5-year old daughter even hates the Ravens.
by SundaysWithTroy on Jul 2, 2010 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions
No problem
Jerry’s over-reliance on shitty veterans, “gut feelings”, bunting and shitty relievers is mind numbingly annoying
In a perfect world, he would get fired while the team is still in contention ala Ned Yost in 2008.
But he won’t unless this team falls into a tailspin, because management correlates winning with Jerry being smart.
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?
unfortunately, you couldn't be more right about the last sentence
My 5-year old daughter even hates the Ravens.
by SundaysWithTroy on Jul 2, 2010 1:33 AM EDT up reply actions
I did a detailed estimate of what Jerry cost
the team wrt the rotation on a recent thread. I’m not interested in going over it all again. I’m sure it will turn up in a search if anyone’s interested.
Syler...I generally think that you're right on with your positions...
But can you argue with the proposition that Jerry’s lost 8-10. If anything, I think Sundays is being generous to the man.
I’ve watched maybe 15 games this season on TV (every Marlins game + national broadcasts) and just from that cohort I can think of 7 or 8 that Jerry has played a serious role in losing.
players lose
managers just put them in a position that is either hard to succeed (in this game of failures) or near impossible
stats, they are seriously never in Francoeur's favor
This statement is like saying the German soldiers...
Lost the Eastern Front. Yes, players lose, but in any management scheme the point is to best deploy your assets. Here, we see a failure to provide coats, with a somewhat less important historical significance.
And yes, I just compared Jerry to Hitler.
Cue Godwin’s Rule.
thats all i am saying here and below
the manager just puts the team in a position to be good or bad. jerry consistently puts this team in a position to be bad
stats, they are seriously never in Francoeur's favor
Agree with this...
He gets literally the least he can out of his guys. And it must be hard for them at times. These guys are no dummies when it comes to baseball. I’m amazed that they have the restraint to not have gotten all Zambrano on him….
Maybe this game is a good thing, in the long run
In at least one limited way, I think the trainwreck in slow motion that was tonight’s 9th inning could have a good outcome — if it finally gets a change in bullpen use through Jerry’s thick skull. I mean, this mess was a direct consequence of abuse of Feliciano’s arm — he’s going much too long in too many consecitve games, and facing way too many righties. Even Jerry should be able to see that by now.
Yeah, good luck with that.
He’s not exactly a master of subtlety.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 1, 2010 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions
And seeing Beiser Balk's post below..
I am certain that your optimism is misplaced.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 1, 2010 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I certainly hope so.
If there's ever a riot at Citi Field and Oliver Perez was the starter, I started the riot.
yeah I'm not buying it
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
He slagged Nieve well past the point it was obvious to every sentient creature.
I won’t be surprised if he has to lose several more games with Feliciano before he starts to, maybe, get it.
Anyone hear Jerry in the postgame?
A reporter actually asked about using Frankie there and Jerry went into this condescending “That’s not what a closer does. It’s pretty simple. That’s just baseball.”
If this is true...
Then the man is even less savvy than I though.
Jerry, this is not government work.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 1, 2010 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Shows how damn stupid the "closer" title is
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?
what does it take to fire this guy???
stats, they are seriously never in Francoeur's favor
if you cant bring in your best reliever with the game on the line in the 9th
then fuck you jerry
stats, they are seriously never in Francoeur's favor
I agree 100%
I’d much rather have a chance to win in extras and resort to Toyota or Parnell or Nieve getting the “save” than lose in the bottom of the ninth because “that’s not what a closer does.”
I support Jenrry Mejia as a starter. Screw you Jerry Manuel for thinking he's a set-up man.
unfortunately
the Mets playing a bit over their heads lately has saved him through the season, so there will be no October (again)
My 5-year old daughter even hates the Ravens.
by SundaysWithTroy on Jul 2, 2010 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions
and there won't be until we have a good manager
My 5-year old daughter even hates the Ravens.
by SundaysWithTroy on Jul 2, 2010 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions
A different manager would have the Mets no better than they are right now
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?
haha
good one
My 5-year old daughter even hates the Ravens.
by SundaysWithTroy on Jul 2, 2010 1:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Seriously
People greatly overstate the importance of managers over a 162 game season
Are you seriously going to tell me that this team would be 50-29 right now with say Bobby V?
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?
hell no
Bobby V would use all the bench before the eighth.
I meant a good manager.
My 5-year old daughter even hates the Ravens.
by SundaysWithTroy on Jul 2, 2010 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions
And who is a GOOD manager?
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?
Oh, I dunno, Earl Weaver? Whitey Herzog? Walter Alston?
Ron Gardenhire is a good, contemporary in-game manager, and seems to do a good job setting up his rotation early on and getting his pitching in order. Sciosia too. His Angels routinely outperform their preseason predictions by more than a half dozen games. The difference between Sciosia and Manuel this season could be as much as fifteen games. That’s an extremely rare divergence, but it’s something like the difference between the best and worst fielding teams. Those divergences are rare, but they surely do happen.
You may be underestimating the importance of roster management, and while most erroneous in-game decisions only involve very small fractions of wins, managers make thousands of those decisions every year. The cumulative cost of those decisions becomes significant, and can easily be the deciding margin of making or missing the postseason.
Davey Johnson comes to mind...
If at the beginning of 86 you said they would win 108 and that Herzog himself would call the Mets division winners in June (June!), people would have said you’re crazy. Remember that he lost his presumed center fielder in spring training and had an unproven, untested infield, and Bruce Berenyi, Rick Aguilera and three kids who showed promise but didn’t ensure anything (Darling, Fernandez, and somewhat less but still Gooden) as starters.
Davey Johnson started the 1984 season
with Mike Torrez in the rotation, as the opening day starter no less, and Dick Tidrow and Craig Swan in the bullpen, and all of them were way past gassed. I think it was only the horrible Dickie Thon beaning (obviously unintentional, given Torrez’s nonexistent control) that finally got Torrez mercifully cut. Dick Tidrow made 11 appearances and gave up 5 home runs! And Jerry Martin, in his last career gasp, appeared in 51 games with 97 PAs and hit a whopping .154.
Agree. Let's not forget my favorite bowtied GM...
Frank Cashen. But your command of history impresses…
And for that I salute you…
agreed, huge salute Andee (and Mookie)
thanks for the trip down memory lane….I became a Mets fan in ’82, and remember all of this vividly….those ’84 Mets did alot of things right too, though
Mookie – Hernandez and Knight (and to a lesser extent, Backman) gave that infield alot of experience – not to mention Carter….Straw and Doc were on the cusp of superstardom, and we had a wealth of young, talented players….just sayin’….I thought we’d win the NL, at least – we had been knocking on the door pretty loudly for the last couple of years….still, I never thought we’d get close to 108, not to mention the greatest thing that ever happened to the world (until my marriage and kids, anyway)
My 5-year old daughter even hates the Ravens.
by SundaysWithTroy on Jul 2, 2010 5:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Nice...
But in response to your sig…How does she feel about the Phillies?
she can't stand baseball
because we have the MLB package and watch every Mets game, every night….she hates not having the big HD TV to herself for the cartoons – she has an old 27" regular TV in her room….my God, I would have given my legs to have a 27" TV in my room as a child….hell, as a teenager even
She will Mother Effing learn to hate the Phillies, though.
My 5-year old daughter even hates the Ravens.
by SundaysWithTroy on Jul 2, 2010 5:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Show her this...
If she doesn’t understand, might as well buy her prescreen tickets to Sex and the City 14.
excuse me, but
F*CK what the other teams’ fans and players think.
Thanks for the two great new vids.
My 5-year old daughter even hates the Ravens.
by SundaysWithTroy on Jul 2, 2010 5:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Has anyone clinched their division that early since?
My 5-year old daughter even hates the Ravens.
by SundaysWithTroy on Jul 2, 2010 5:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Listen man...
Stick around. I might just encode the entire 86 Mets highlight video and stick it on my brother’s company’s server one of these days. I need to head back to NYC to do it, but these videos are only the surface. There’s the Eric Davis game, at least 2 Ray Knight fights, the Houston bar debacle, and everything else we loved about the bad guys who won.
All I can say is "Roger McDowell in right"
If this doesn’t make you happy, you are a bad man.
the pranksta
long before the gangsta
My 5-year old daughter even hates the Ravens.
by SundaysWithTroy on Jul 2, 2010 5:58 AM EDT up reply actions
I know he's from Ohio
where did he go to school?
My 5-year old daughter even hates the Ravens.
by SundaysWithTroy on Jul 2, 2010 6:01 AM EDT up reply actions
1986 Mets video...
Keith discussing Roger’s style of dress v. his trickster personality.
I own it (actually two different ones).
Along with every other Mets video I could ever find.
Don’t hold back, though.
My 5-year old daughter even hates the Ravens.
by SundaysWithTroy on Jul 2, 2010 5:58 AM EDT up reply actions
My dad and I used to watch that video every single time we got together...
It’s only since I’ve been on here that I realize that other people find it as special as we did.
I hope
this isn’t one of those sites where everyone gets mad when two poeple talk to each other alot in one thread. We’ll be blacklisted.
My 5-year old daughter even hates the Ravens.
by SundaysWithTroy on Jul 2, 2010 6:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Don't worry
We haven’t even come close to what I’ve seen. Our posts are not about a half inch wide on the right side.
I actually wore out the tape
Sometime around the late 90’s was the last time I was able to watch it.
Watching Lenny Dykstra run
almost brings me to tears. I would kill to have a player like him RIGHT NOW.
Love Wally Backman, can’t wait til he’s the manager.
My 5-year old daughter even hates the Ravens.
by SundaysWithTroy on Jul 2, 2010 5:52 AM EDT up reply actions
AMEN!!!!
He currently manages in the wrong borough. As for Lenny, he forgot somewhere along the line that if not for a line drive into Mookie’s sunglasses he would have never had that role. I loved Lenny, but the guy got into the wrong crowd (Jim Cramer) and messed up all his promise.
And I didn't even have cable til I was17...
I had to wait for the Channel 9 games or else listen on the damn radio. Though I still think of the Mets in Bob Murphy’s voice.
God, I miss having WWor back in the day.
I loved Kiner.
My 5-year old daughter even hates the Ravens.
by SundaysWithTroy on Jul 2, 2010 5:50 AM EDT up reply actions
WWOR
My 5-year old daughter even hates the Ravens.
by SundaysWithTroy on Jul 2, 2010 5:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Kiner...
He made Tim McCarver sound smart. There is no better rec a man can have. It’s like being able to leap tall buildings in a single bound, sports style.
I loved McCarver.
I was young and impressionable. Loved him and Steve Stone from WGN.
My 5-year old daughter even hates the Ravens.
by SundaysWithTroy on Jul 2, 2010 6:11 AM EDT up reply actions
And a tip of the hat to Tim Teufel
I think Teufel was a Cashen pickup at Johnson’s request, and with Backman made for a powerful platoon at second.
well said Jack
Teufel was a huge part of that team.
My 5-year old daughter even hates the Ravens.
by SundaysWithTroy on Jul 2, 2010 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions
And also the 1985 Mets won 98 games.
In a “normal” year, that would have been plenty to win the division, but the Cardinals won 101. Nobody was all that shocked to see the Mets increase their win total by 10 the following year, especially with the Cardinals completely falling apart the way they did (to only 79 wins). It was the turnaround from ’83 to ’84 that nobody expected.
And in today's wild card atmosphere...
That would clearly be enough.
I still hate Andy Van Slyke, Ozzie, Vince, and most of all John Tudor for that year. To this day when I meet a true asshole I wish upon him that he breaks his leg on the dugout stairs, even though I’m sure John was a nice enough guy in person.
Tudor killed us everytime
I also hated Coleman, especially later on when he used to steal 5 bases a game against Mackie Sasser
Vince Coleman was put on earth solely to torture us.
But I guess that’s obvious, right?
Oh, man.
In late 1984 I rented a house with a good friend, someone I’ve known since childhood. He’s a great guy but, sadly, a diehard Cardinals fan, and he was just merciless through 1985, and especially at the end, of course. My revenge was that beautiful, beautiful World Series, which rendered him literally speechless for an entire week.
don't forget Andujar and Tommy Freakin' Herr
hard to hate Ozzie, though….I live in St Louis and see all he has done here for the community….I wanted to hate him, though
My 5-year old daughter even hates the Ravens.
by SundaysWithTroy on Jul 2, 2010 5:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh, and I have to say about St. Louis...
Y’all have the best free zoo I’ve ever been to. I have a buddy who lives near the zoo who my wife and I visited last summer. Damn, that zoo is phenomenal. It put St. Louis on my “stop of you’re going by” list. Which is a whole lot more than I can say for the ridiculous ways your roads are designed.
the highway system is awesome, though
and the zoo is phenomenal….you should see the kid’s museum….we had nothing that awesome when we were kids, believe me….St Louis has alot more going on than just that – absolutely amazing city, very upbeat, friendly and positive collection of people, too….someone mentioned earlier that the Cards fans were not passionate – I’ve lived all over and never seen a more passionate fanbase than the Cardinals, in any sport, except for the Steelers (just a little bit biased on that one) – even college football fans in the south….I bartend and when the Cards score a run in a game, the entire building gets extremely loud….old ladies can tell you Cardinal’s batting average and homerun totals….incredible
My 5-year old daughter even hates the Ravens.
by SundaysWithTroy on Jul 2, 2010 5:43 AM EDT up reply actions
If you're a libertarian...
My buddy works at the Show Me Institute. So I get to go and see the free zoo and hear about how it’s probably not an appropriate government action to support it. Still, the fact that that zoo is free is prolly the best thing to happen to St. Louis since Yogi Berra. My wife and I spent at least an hour making faces at the orangutan and wondering why we used to spend $20 a head at the Bronx Zoo.
And Cards fans amaze me. When they’re good the entire stadium is red. And ya know, they have grission n stuff.
with the current division alignment
only minus the Rockies, Marlins, and D-backs (so, obviously it would have been very different, but just play along), the Mets would have made the playoffs every year from 1984-1990 or 1991. Imagine how much different the perception of them would have been?
2009 Did Not Happen
For Christ's sake
we had TWO good hitters in the lineup tonight
no doubt Santana wishes he hadn’t come here
My 5-year old daughter even hates the Ravens.
by SundaysWithTroy on Jul 2, 2010 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions
The club would be at least four games better with any competent manager.
At least. Eight to ten prorated over a full season.
I agree with you that people generally overrate the importance of managers, but the ones that are truly godawful, that like Manuel have literally no clue, are extremely costly to a team.
emphasis on at least
I know you said it twice, I just wanted to say it again.
My 5-year old daughter even hates the Ravens.
by SundaysWithTroy on Jul 2, 2010 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions
imagine what it'll be at the end of the year
My 5-year old daughter even hates the Ravens.
by SundaysWithTroy on Jul 2, 2010 5:12 AM EDT up reply actions
There are few good managers in baseball
I seriously doubt Bruce Bochy, Lou Piniella, Joe Torre, Charlie Manuel or any other manager would add more than a win to this team
I blame the holy architect of this team, who gave Jerry no good righthanded relievers outside of KRod, no starting pitchers, and forced Francoeur and Cora on him
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?
Do you think Sciosia
would have run Perez and Maine out there for the first two months of the season? Or used his leverage to demand that Mejia stay in the pen?
Manuel had these two easily rectifiable issues exactly backwards. That’s how bad he is.
don't forget GMJ over Pagan
and Cattalanotto
My 5-year old daughter even hates the Ravens.
by SundaysWithTroy on Jul 2, 2010 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions
God, yeah.
The list is so long I just used a couple of glaring examples.
If Manuel is so clearly, blatantly, hopelessly incompetent, and yet only cost all of one game, then since the beginning of baseball we’ve all deluded ourselves and there’s essentially no difference between managers, therefore no point to strategizing, and no difference between how a manager sets up and uses his rotation, his lineup, his bench, and his minor leaguers, no meaning or value in platooning, no meaning or value in choice of relievers, and so on.
Here are Joe Saunders and Scott Kazmir's stats
Kazmir:
81.0 IP, 85 H, 11 HR, 41 BB, 55 SO
5.67 ERA, 1.56 WHIP
Saunders:
94.0 IP, 102 H, 12 HR, 41 BB, 48 SO
4.88 ERA, 1.52 WHIP
He’s kept those two in the rotation all year
And again, Jerry shouldn’t have been forced to decide between those two and Figueroa and Misch
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?
wow
revealing stats, for sure
I had no idea.
That says alot for the rest of that Angels team.
My 5-year old daughter even hates the Ravens.
by SundaysWithTroy on Jul 2, 2010 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Doing the best with what you have,
and keeping two guys in the rotation who could not possibly succeed based on their histories and spring training numbers, and doing nothing whatsoever to limit the damage they could do, are two completely different things.
Why shouldn’t Manuel have been forced to decide between those two and Figueroa and Misch? That’s what a manager does. But, hey, what about getting Takahashi and Dickey in the rotation in April? Earl Weaver sure as hell wouldn’t have done his best to wreck his clubs chances at the postseason by sending his eleventh and twelveth best pitchers out there to put up ERAs over 6. Neither would Scoscia.
I'd take Dusty Baker over Manuel.
and that’s saying something
Of course, Pelfrey’s arm would have fallen off by now.
My 5-year old daughter even hates the Ravens.
by SundaysWithTroy on Jul 2, 2010 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions
How is what Jerry did not "doing the best with what he had"
Going into last offseason, everyone and their mother knew we needed another starter
Omar signed NO ONE. He couldn’t even get Pineiro, a guy who signed for cheap and wanted to be a Met.
So in spring training, Jerry had to decide between
-A 35 year old knuckleballer who had never pitched well in the majors and who didn’t pitch well in the spring
-A soft tossing righty
-An even softer tossing lefty who didn’t have the control to compensate for it
-A pile of human garbage (Perez)
-A 35 year old Japanese starter who had never pitched in the majors
It isn’t that Maine and Perez deserved spots as was the fact that they were the best options available
Takahashi worked well in the bullpen, and you had no idea Dickey would be this successful
And after a while, when Perez sucked, Jerry was forced into a bind because
1. Perez is owed $24 million through next year
2. Perez wasn’t injured
3. Perez couldn’t be traded
4. Perez would still suck out of the bullpen
Yes, he kept starting them for way too long.
But if Omar had simply signed ONE major league starter in the offseason, it would’ve been contention for one of the spots, not two.
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?
But you've just demonstrated my point.
Maine and Perez WEREN’T the best options available. Everyone except the Mets FO knew that.
Everyone pitcher on the 40-man with a history of starting, with the exception of Parnell, had a better track record than the recent histories of Maine and Perez. Takahashi and Dickey were on the team, weren’t they? Except it was Manuel’s ineptitude that didn’t allow him to realize that for two months.
You’re well aware that Takahashi was a successful starter in Japan. He pitched well in spring training. How is his ability, and the likelihood that he would be better than either of two pitchers whose careers looked over, some unfathomable secret?
How is limiting Perez’s starts in April and the damage he could do, while giving the 24m man at least some chance of redeeming himself and his contract, an unusual path, unless your name is Jerry Manuel?
How is letting Figueroa—a guy whose ML numbers and MLEs in 2009 were comparable to John Lackey’s 2009 season—get DFA’ed without a fuss, when you have a rotation with real weaknesses, anything other than a firing offense?
by Jack Str on Jul 2, 2010 1:54 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Dude, you miss the point about Ollie...
Omar recognized that Buffalo needed a mop-up guy. This is the genius of Omar. Seriously, is $24 million too much to preserve the rest of the AAA bullpen?
But Kazmir is not much under an ERA of 6.
And Saunders is not much better. And they’ve gotten way more starts (15 and 16 respectively) than Maine and Perez (9 and 7 respectively). And as of now, Scioscia has no plans to pull either of them.
Furthermore, if Kazmir, at least, is pulled from the rotation, they probably won’t give him walking papers until they try him out in the bullpen. That’s what pretty much all teams do before they cut someone really expensive, see if they can either get some use out of him or, if possible, trade him for someone else’s (hopefully less severe) headache. Does any current MLB team not do this? I’d love to know who.
good point on the second part
he is playing with a bad hand (not all his fault), but his in-game decisions are awful
My 5-year old daughter even hates the Ravens.
by SundaysWithTroy on Jul 2, 2010 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Wait. I just read that Bay was NOT injured?
So, with Pagan, Reyes, and Barajas hurt, THIS is the time to give Bay a day off?
And, Santana, who had good stuff obviously, got pulled after 97 pitches? 97 pitches? That must have been a misprint. That can’t be right.
jerryball
he gave ike the day off on tuesday in a game he said was a must win against a lefty ike was like 4 for 6 off of in favor of a tatis who hadnt had a hit in 17 at bats. im all for giving players rest, but even people on this site noticed the night before that it should be reyes getting the day off because he hadnt had a game off since april and of course the next day jose gets injured. he could have easily slid ruben over and inserted tatis at second. monday morning quarterbacking is easy for us to do when we cant sleep and are complaining about the manager of a team we all love
stats, they are seriously never in Francoeur's favor
"Even people on this site noticed..."?
Ouch!
Thing is, the phrase “monday morning quarterbacking” implies that it’s not until the dust clears and it’s the morning after that critics can see clearly and critique the manager’s performance. With Jerry that faceslapping astonishment occurs within instants of his decisions.
well not a poke at anyone on this site
but people were starting to question when jose was going to get a day off and that seems like something a mlb team should notice
stats, they are seriously never in Francoeur's favor
The problem being....
That on most good MLB teams one of the few producers can get a day off and no one notices because the replacement is (i) decent or (ii) can field and bats 8th. Soooooo…what does this tell us?
that we dont learn from our mistakes (cora)
and like to hold on to players that have been around (tatis)
stats, they are seriously never in Francoeur's favor
you said yourself we've lost a ridiculous amount of walk off games
a good number of those have been because of mind numbling dumb bullpen management or giving away outs or horrible pinch hitting decisions.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
you never know how the game would turn out anyway
but there have been plenty of games where jerry’s decision making process has been so bad a baby would scratch his head, and those decision have consistently put this team in a position that is really hard to win. look at tonight in the 9th, not even considering his best reliever probably never warmed up to come in, if he had brought anyone in after just the willie harris walk they would have been put in a better position to win than bringing Ryota in with the bases loaded and one out. i can understand leaving pedro in to face the left handed nyjer, and that bunt sounded like it was perfect, but he should never have been left in to face the lefty crushing guzman, his average is greater than .360 v lefties as opposed to .260’s v righties and he was always better v lefties.
stats, they are seriously never in Francoeur's favor
it would probably be impossible to show how jerry actually cost his teams wins
but its clear he consistently puts the mets in a position where the only reason the mets win is because of the ridiculous talent of the best players on the team. and if someone wanted to look at a game by game they would surely find plenty where the team was left in a terrible position to win
stats, they are seriously never in Francoeur's favor
Yup. And these blunders are routine.
Manuel is a moron, and this is the kind of thing he means when he says it takes him time to get to know his players. Rather than look at Feliciano’s long history, which would tell anyone who could read that Feliciano, other than wishing he could get righties out, can’t really get righties out, he makes the blatantly wrong decision over and over and over again.
These are easy mistakes to see, they occur almost daily, and they have some calculable cost. But, hey, if you don’t believe in stats, you don’t even know that you’re blundering around.
Agreed, Jack
I firmly believe the Mets would be in first place all alone if Jerry weren’t there to mess things up all the time…I don’t care to say what the record they may or may not have would be, just first place.
And Frenchy and Carter would platoon in right, Parnell would be (and have been) the setup man ALL YEAR, Pagan would have started from the get-go batting second in CF, Misch and Dickey would have been the 4 and 5, GMJ, Catt, Maine, Ollie, Cora, Mejia, Valdes and Mike Jacobs (really???) never would have even seen the field, Sean Green wouldn’t even be in the Mets’ system, David would have batted 3rd, IKe (starting) 4th and Bay 5th ALL season, Cliff Lee would be hurling 5-hit shutouts at Citi, Jose would have 29 steals from the leadoff spot ALL season so far and Santana would have 4 complete game wins among his team leading 11, giving the Mets two starters in the All-Star game.
Okay, so I was dreaming out loud during the second paragraph, but didn’t it sound great?
My 5-year old daughter even hates the Ravens.
by SundaysWithTroy on Jul 2, 2010 5:36 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You realize that you might have just put all of Amazin Avenue out of business?
Because you just synopsized every beef everyone on here has had all year, in 3 paragraphs. That’s about 100,000 posts (not an exaggeration—see daily post results) reduced to about 150 words. Well done.
haha
Great minds think alike, and there seem to be alot of them here. This is definetly one of the most intelligent, prepared and creative sites I’ve ever been on. The posters here know their shit. Color me impressed. I will be a fixture here, hopefully adding something of value randomly.
My 5-year old daughter even hates the Ravens.
by SundaysWithTroy on Jul 2, 2010 5:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Are you new here?
If so, welcome. Tonight some of the best folks are not around, so more to come. Also, if you don’t suffer from the same insomnia I do, can you tell me who your coke dealer is? There is no reason to be up this late. for you or me. :P
And yeah, this is not a good site to screw up facts, but that will be forgiven if you have the passion for the team. I still don’t know what half the acronyms the sabremetricians on here mean, but I also know who is responsible for the Mets not having won a WS in the past 24 years (Kevin McReynolds, clearly), so I pass the A ball summer league muster.
haha, funny about McReynolds
I get my stuff from the same guy Chris Carter does. Just kidding, I’m a bartender – late hours. Plus, I’m drinking Schlafly Pale Ale, screw sleep. Although, I do have to work at noon…..
My 5-year old daughter even hates the Ravens.
by SundaysWithTroy on Jul 2, 2010 6:05 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm new
but have been reading for awhile. I didn’t come here for a long time because of all the negativity. Better now. Glad I joined.
My 5-year old daughter even hates the Ravens.
by SundaysWithTroy on Jul 2, 2010 6:07 AM EDT up reply actions
PS...
It’s not negativity, it’s love redirected…
There may be a GM spot opening up soon.
Keep it in mind, is all I’m sayin’…
I don't want to steal Megdal's thunder.
My 5-year old daughter even hates the Ravens.
by SundaysWithTroy on Jul 2, 2010 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions
in what way could someone "save" tonights game?
By not allowing a run to score in the bottom of the ninth. ARGH!!!
I support Jenrry Mejia as a starter. Screw you Jerry Manuel for thinking he's a set-up man.
Jeez,
Jerry is in love with the “save” statistic
"I want to win now, not 3 years from now. That's my stance." - Kevin Burkhardt
he wants to get frankie that vest
stats, they are seriously never in Francoeur's favor
but closers come into the 8th to pitch to the bottom of the order
and come into blow out games for no apparent reason?
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
and come in for RA when he can just complete the game no problem
stats, they are seriously never in Francoeur's favor
I'm sensing some frustration here.
Why?
by MookieTheCat on Jul 1, 2010 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions
My post above was drenched in sarcasm...
I’m feeling the Jerryball pain too, and have for a while.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 1, 2010 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions
But didn't Jerryball start with the bunt in the first
Then Pinch running Pagan with 2 out(and an injury your resting) then putting Bay for Blanco so no pinch hitters left, when you put Barajas in
by Sir Tmac on Jul 1, 2010 11:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
lol we're lucky it didn't go to extras
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
did you see the .gif above? this is why
stats, they are seriously never in Francoeur's favor
by astromets on Jul 1, 2010 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
quote of jerry from that website
‘OK, he’s nine out of 10 against this guy.’ Am I going to get that one out of 10 or that nine out of 10? I don’t like to rely on stats."
stats, they are seriously never in Francoeur's favor
He's a walking contradiction
& nobody in the MSM bothers to call him out on it.
"I want to win now, not 3 years from now. That's my stance." - Kevin Burkhardt
As awful as Manuel is I'm having trouble believing this.
Are you sure that’s the exact quote?
I mean, there’s no reason, ever, that Manuel should be managing a baseball team, unless it’s for owners who are even more ignorant than he is, but this is on the order of an architect saying he doesn’t believe in gravity, or an engineer saying force is just numbers and numbers don’t mean anything.
Unfortunately,
he is correct.
"I want to win now, not 3 years from now. That's my stance." - Kevin Burkhardt
Jesus.
Here’s the moron at work:
“Historically for me, my teams play better late than early, because I kind of know how they fit," Manuel said. "Unless there’s been a rash of things thrown into the mix, and it takes me a little longer to figure out who fits where.
"But once I find out where everybody fits, what I can do with everybody, then we start to understand each other, then everything kind of clicks. It’s really our job to know our players better than anybody. If we don’t, we’re not doing our job.""
Manuel is so frakking stupid that it takes him some stretch of the season to figure out that batting Pagan eighth is a bad idea. It takes him two months to figure out that GMJ is no longer a major league hitter. It takes him two months to figure out that John Maine and Oliver Perez are no longer major league pitchers.
Could someone please tell the genius that THAT’S WHAT SPRING TRAINING IS FOR!!! That’s what stats are for. If a guy has a five year history of hitting lefties tolerably well, while not hitting righties at all, YOU DON’T SPEND THREE FRIGGING MONTHS seeing if, somehow, in his sleep, he learned to hit righties.
Sorry for yelling, but the Mets are going to miss the postseason and Manuel is obviously, sickeningly the reason why.
“Then we start to understand each other.”
Could someone please explain to me what the fuck he’s talking about? Did he need to watch Francouer flail for three months to learn what BBRef could have told him in a minute and a half, that Francouer cannot get on base against right handed pitching?
but you don't understand
with stats, see, they can tell you something happens 9 of 10 times in a certain situation, but you never know if you’re going to get the 9 or the 1, you know?
That’s baseball.
So, a 9 to 1 shot
is really 50-50, and a 1 in 10 shot is also 50-50, because something either happens or it doesn’t?
This explains a lot about JerryBall.
You know what?
I’m happy that Jerry manages a baseball team and not, for example, the Center for Disease Control. Otherwise our enemy would not be misplaced relievers, but polio.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 2, 2010 3:11 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't think it's even 50-50
it’s simply unknowable.
if more people don't rec this, I'm gonna start new accounts just to rec it
it should be the new AA logo, instead of that boring skyline thing
answer is always jerryball!
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
says the guy who wanted to "give him work" before the 9th the other day
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Jul 1, 2010 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Well he had work this week, since he pitched two consecutive days
That’s enough work for a while. Next time we have a low leverage situation, he’ll be in there pitching his and our hearts out.
I'm pretty sure it actually went,
"That’s not what a closer does. I’m pretty simple. That’s just baseball."
Any time in a situation where its bases loaded 1 out in the bottom of the 9th you can bring in a reliever with an ERA above 8, you have to do it.
by garik16 on Jul 1, 2010 10:28 PM EDT reply actions 6 recs
+1
For sheer absurdity.
This is like avant garde baseball.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 1, 2010 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1 for the term "avant garde baseball"
by HotChipWillBreakYourLegs on Jul 1, 2010 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions
As I wrote it, I heard Bob Murphy saying it...
It was a beautiful moment.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 1, 2010 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
avant garde baseball, especially jerry's brand of it
is an insult to the term avant garde
by secret defense on Jul 1, 2010 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And whatever the term avant garde means....
Jerry insults it….
He is currently trying to play Connect 4 against the Devil….
by MookieTheCat on Jul 2, 2010 6:48 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
pretty sure you meant arrière
or possibly derrière
rec'd for understand jerry
stats, they are seriously never in Francoeur's favor
The save statistic must be the worst thing invented
Right next to pitchers getting wins, Astroturf and vuvuzelas in a baseball game
I would take a chorus of vuvuzelas waking me every morning for the next year...
If Jerry would stop being part of the damn problem and start being part of the solution…
by MookieTheCat on Jul 1, 2010 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions
holds?
"The one thing you don't want to do is hit a home run. That's a rally-killer." -Jeff Francoeur
by RangersandMets on Jul 1, 2010 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions
nobody pays attention to holds
so nobody manages for one. Saves have ruined baseball
2009 Did Not Happen
What about that killer lineup we had up all game?
Honestly Livan had an easy job of “dominating” the C-Team. Seriously Bay should have been in there.
You know what else is sad?
A couple of lineup changes, really moderate stuff, and all of a sudden we’re fielding a JV team. This goes to the heart of our thin lineup, and this does not bode well.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 1, 2010 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions
In comparison it's interesting to see how the Red Sox handle a raft of serious injuries
this season. So far they’re hanging in. The Mets, on the other hand, with Pagan out, Reyes tweaking something, and Bay getting a rest, are fielding a brutal lineup.
That’s what happens when you voluntarily have a catcher, a RFer, and a backup IFer with gruesome OBPs on the 25-man, and pick up your 5th OFer of the scrap heap because you forget to get a decent one early in the offseason, even knowing that your starting CFer had issues and his sub had never played close to a full season.
this.
is sad. and i’m using only lowercase to demonstrate my mets flag at half staff.
To restate the obvious...
Everyone says the Mets are overperforming this year. I think this is true, to a degree. But in a 162 game season, you return to the mean. You have to. The Sox may have underperformed, but they have a more robust lineup in many ways and this is your problem insurance. Lets assume—and knock on wood—that the core gets hurt again. And I’m talking about 3 guys here, and maybe 2 pitchers. All of a sudden we’re Pittsburgh. I have said more than once this season, “thank God we have Dessens.” That’s scary, in a it’s just baseball sort of way. And that’s no joke.
Hard to win when you have 3 automatic outs in Cora, Tejada and Francoeur
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?
I think the omission might have been intentional...
Given the performance of the other three recently.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 1, 2010 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Santana had a better OBP than Barajas last year
against RHP. That’s frakking sad.
But what’s NOT sad is that I’m savoring my second run through of Battlestar Galactica. Great, great show.
Really?
Sad when my suspicions turn out to be true. I like Rod, but between this and his fleetness of foot (he’s the only guy I’ve seen that can stretch a triple into a single, and I once saw Ramon Castro), I dunno.
barajas is an automatic out
he’ll just give the pitcher some heart palpitations with his towering flyballs before making those outs.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Blanco was in the lineup
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?
did he even get an at bat?
stats, they are seriously never in Francoeur's favor
murph says it best, what we all are thinking
stats, they are seriously never in Francoeur's favor
Is there any way to flag that belly fat banner ad at the top of this?
I mean, seriously.
I hate when we take early 1-0 leads.
Because I actually know that nothing stays 1-0 for long anyway, so it was bound to get pretty bad.
Also, I don’t think losing to the Nationals is as embarrassing-sounding as it was in years past. Could it be the infusion of newer, younger talent on that squad? Maybe. That there are other teams far worse than they are? Absolutely. Whatever the reason, I am pretty convinced they’re no longer the push-overs that everyone thought they were. Just a team hounded by plain bad luck.
2010: Year of the Grission
i believe they got swept by the orioles
embarassing enough?
stats, they are seriously never in Francoeur's favor
In the second meeting, yes.
Yeah, that was bad. But they haven’t lost to Pittsburgh yet.
2010: Year of the Grission
The Nationals are 11 games under .500
and we’re facing Livan, Atilano, and Stammen in this series
We’re a better team than them, and given how tough our schedule is after this, winning this series is critical
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?
Also, some other guy. I forgot what his name was. Help?
Anyway, there’s no question now. I felt 3 out of 4 would do, considering we’ve done jack shit against Livan the past few meetings.
2010: Year of the Grission
like this city in virginia?
stats, they are seriously never in Francoeur's favor
They may not be as bad as they used to be...
But they are still pretty damn bad. I think the root of the frustration around here tonight is not that we lost to a bad team, but that even I, who only joined the game on Gamecast in the 9th, looked at the screen and said “we are going to lose this game” as soon as Harris was walked. It’s just a confluence of unfortunate events that is predictable to every one of us, and we are just folks who watch for free from far away, while he who is paid to watch and analyze keeps making the same errors based on specious and unsupported doctrine that has been passe since at least the mid-90s. The idea is not that we play to the level of the competition, but that we don’t play to the level of the Mets, either consistently or even every so often. We collectively facepalm at least 2 or 3 times a night. Oddly, you know what happens when the facepalm moment doesn’t happen? We win.
The Marlins has 3 walk-offs all year before Tuesday. And then this.
Ok, I feel sorta better now. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to just vent.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 1, 2010 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
and we scored 1 run off of livan hernandez...
stats, they are seriously never in Francoeur's favor
I think it also has to do with the fact that Livan was pitching
If we got shut down by Strasburg, people really wouldn’t be THAT upset
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?
i think its sad that we all knew we were going to get shut down by him too
stats, they are seriously never in Francoeur's favor
I think that I need to channel some old Chevy Chase to explain Jerry...
Do you do drugs Jerry?
Every day, sir.
Then what’s the problem?
Ok, feel better now...
Back to studying. Yay!
But then you get to be a lawyer!
Oh. Wait.
(Sorry. Couldn’t help it.)
I am a lawyer...
In NY. This is the FL bar exam. I like palm trees and catching tarpon, so I made the life change. The bar exam is perhaps the worst of it.
And you have no idea how much being a lawyer sucks. I did 5 years on Wall St. I still have nightmares. Oh if only you knew. If not for a woman and 2 dogs I’d be a dive instructor.
Wow
In our two professions, we get to know people better than they know themselves. I’m a bartender. You guys bring me a ton of business, thanks.
FWIW, My brother lives in Tampa and it is gorgeous. I try to get there more than four times a year, if possible. Going to see the Steelers this season there. Can’t wait, that’s where they won their last Super Bowl….until this year, of course.
My 5-year old daughter even hates the Ravens.
by SundaysWithTroy on Jul 2, 2010 6:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Welcome to AA...
I’m fairly new, but prob what got you here got me here. Folks here talk a lot of shit, but it’s well meaning and if you have some sort of backup, you will be welcome. It’s the one sports site I’ve been on where both photos of puppies and a vigorous debate about whether Rabelais or Voltaire best describes the Mets. For me, living away from NYC, it has taken the place of the bar banter that I used to cpnsider as much a part of baseball as well, the ball.
And if you live in St Louis and sling beer, you’re alright by me.
thanks for the welcome
good talking to you, bro
My 5-year old daughter even hates the Ravens.
by SundaysWithTroy on Jul 2, 2010 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Glad you're both here.
I’ve been enjoying your posts.
Glad I was working tonight-Seems some things never change:
Can’t beat Livan
Can’t score for Johan
Can’t beat the Nats or win close games on the road
Them losing chronically to FLA and WASH has plagued them tremendously the past 3-4 yrs
Didn't make sense...
The defense in that situation didnt make any sense whatsoever. In that situation we needed a strikeout or a groundout, yet jerry brings in a flyball pitcher in Iggy who can strike people out. So i’m assuming that he wanted a K out of Iggy, yet by having no left fielder it was pretty obvious that they were going to keep the ball away from zimmerman. And with half the plate pretty much out of the equation a K wasnt happening so a fly ball game over… ridiculous maybe someone can clue me in here on a flaw in my logic… if not my hate for jerry grows even more.
I was only half-watching on Gamecast...
But if what you allege turns out to be true, my anger embiggens…
by MookieTheCat on Jul 1, 2010 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions
only thing i can think of is
he struck out 8 in his last 4 innings, including the side in his last appearance.
stats, they are seriously never in Francoeur's favor
but you should not limit your hate for jerry
mine is infinite
stats, they are seriously never in Francoeur's favor
it does make sense
you’re just not reading the jerryball manual
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
ahaha
"The one thing you don't want to do is hit a home run. That's a rally-killer." -Jeff Francoeur
by RangersandMets on Jul 1, 2010 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions
RTFM
Unfortunately the better Manual is the Charlie Manual.
That one usually does not end up in a call to tech support, sadly.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 1, 2010 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions
the proballem I have with the defense is that
it was freaking frenchy that had to come to infield if your doing it because a right handed thrower has to play in the infield in that formation. We would have been fucked too if he hit to feliciano cause no way could he pivot to make a decent throw to get the speedy harris.
to be fair
if it was hit right at feliciano all he would have to do is step on second and throw to first to get zim
stats, they are seriously never in Francoeur's favor
Here's my favorite part:
This dope is willing to think (unnecessarily) outside the box when it comes to playing 5 infielders, but when it comes to using your best reliever with the game on the line, that’s too crazy.
Double this
All his gangsta moves are idiotic, yet when there’s a real opportunity for a good gangsta move he invariably falls back on stupid baseball orthodoxy
by the way eric
i keep reading that title and dont know what you thought about this was winnable…
stats, they are seriously never in Francoeur's favor
haha sarcasm
just meant with livan pitching for the nationals, the nationals, and johan pitching for us; this somehow always results in a loss
stats, they are seriously never in Francoeur's favor
i have a gift for jerry, can someone deliver it please
stats, they are seriously never in Francoeur's favor
He's probably already read Joe Morgan's Baseball For Dummies...
…which could be part of the problem.
On a desperate search for Sunshine at Nats Park.
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