Mets 3, Braves 0: Santana Dominant Again

This was kind of an important game for the Mets. If they lost, the Braves would have extended their NL East lead to six games. A win would bring them back to within four games. You wouldn't have thought it so important after a cursory glance at the Mets' lineup card this afternoon, though. As Gary Cohen was quick to point out, six of the nine players had a sub-.305 on-base percentage: Alex Cora (.286), Jeff Francoeur (.303), Chris Carter (.261), Rod Barajas (.279), Ruben Tejada (.290), and Johan Santana (.152). Jason Bay was told to enjoy his bobblehead giveaway from the bench. Jose Reyes is on the shelf until at least after the All-Star break. Josh Thole took a dump on Jerry Manuel's desk.
So what's a team to do? Defy the odds and win the ballgame, I guess. Santana allowed five hits and three walks in seven innings, striking out five along the way and, more importantly, keeping the Braves off the scoreboard. Bobby Parnell continues to lay waste to opposing hitters, setting down Atlanta in order in the eighth. He has 14 strikeouts and two unintentional walks in 11 innings since being recalled from Buffalo. His success hasn't been of the smoke-and-mirrors variety this time; he's been legitimately excellent.
Francisco Rodriguez came on to close out the game and the first half, tossing just eight pitches in a 1-2-3 ninth to seal the victory.
SB Nation Coverage
* Traditional Recap
* Amazin' Avenue Gamethread
* Talking Chop Gamethread
Win Probability Added
Big winners: Johan Santana, +42.8% WPA, Ike Davis, +11.3% WPA
Big losers: Rod Barajas, -17.1% WPA, Jeff Francoeur, -0.8% WPA
Teh aw3s0mest play: Cora RBI single in third, +10.8% WPA
Teh sux0rest play: Barajas GIDP in second, -8.9% WPA
Total pitcher WPA: +53.2% WPA
Total batter WPA: -3.2% WPA
GWRBI!: Alex Cora
Game Thread Roll Call
Nice job by Gina; her effort in the game thread embiggens us all.
| Num | Name | # of Posts |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Gina | 85 |
| 2 | Michkin | 73 |
| 3 | keepcoolbutcare | 63 |
| 4 | aparkermarshall | 59 |
| 5 | the caveman | 53 |
| 6 | lstorie1971 | 52 |
| 7 | Syler | 46 |
| 8 | EtSuKe | 39 |
| 9 | blueandorange4life | 37 |
| 10 | Jadden Hopkins | 36 |
211 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I'm surprised
that the players’ association doesn’t have a clause in the CBA that guys have to play on their bobblehead day.
by blains2000 on Jul 11, 2010 4:47 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Santana's change-up
Looks a lot more effective since he stopped tipping it. Sure he might not be striking out a ton, but hes gotten a lot of weak contact and pop-ups on it it seems.
I don't think it's all that unusual for a good starter to figure out he's tipping something,
or that his fastball’s lost a few mph so he’s got to take a few mph off his changeup, and get most of his mojo back in spite of not having the same stuff he had a few years ago.
That's something I've always wondered.
When MPH on the fastball is dropping, and the differential between fastball and change-up gets slimmer, why not work on slowing down the change? The hardest part is throwing it with the same arm movement as the fastball, but if you’re throwing the fastball slower, adjusting the change shouldn’t be that hard (should it?).
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jul 11, 2010 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions
The problem is when consciously slowing down the change, you might unconsciously slow down considerably the arm action or also change something else.
That might be the cause of tipping his pitches.
In lobby campaign for Chris Carter.
thole took a dump on manuels desk? lol
next time he should leave it on his lap
I like Ike
Jerry has a desk?
What exactly is in or on that desk? Not paperwork.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 11, 2010 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions
paperwork is false hustle
he has a tiny leprechaun on his desk. Leprechauns really hustle
2009 Did Not Happen
Imagina-a-a-a-a-a-t-ion...
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jul 12, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
yeesh at 6 players
are we the kc of the nl?
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
quadruple the payroll
but other than that, yes…
Let's not get crazy
Were gonna have one of the best 1-6 once beltran comes back and bay gets hot.
by Mike Clemente on Jul 11, 2010 5:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Woah there Nellie.
One of the best 1-6? While I admire your optimism, I should point out the following (i) Reyes had been struggling with his Willie Mays Hayes-esque inability to hit ground balls, even before his mystery oblique, (ii) Pagan is exceeding expectations but given late season history I’m not sure we can count on that, (iii) Castillo, nuff said, (iv) the shine is coming off of Ike’s apple (as someone said the other day), (v) Bay (see above, Castillo), (vi) Frenchy (see above, Castillo), (vi) who knows if Beltran will play as he used to, as knee injuries and so much time off may lead to a readjustment period—good scenario—or a realization that the years have worn on him.
I think that Wright and Pagan are fairly sure things to play the rest of the reason well, but the rest of the lineup is pure risk. Barajas was hot early this season but quickly cooled and though I like Thole, I suspect that he will not end the season continuing his supra-Ted Williams pace. Sometime it can work out, but usually not. The problems with OBP have gone on for years now as well, and we have the constant counter-productive nature of Jerry.
Sorry to be Eeyore, but managing expectations is a key to being an active Mets fan, at least for me.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 11, 2010 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions
i expect good from
dubs, pagan and reyes the rest of the season. the rest, i have no clue
I like Ike
See my comment below on the Nats OBP.
The plaintiff rests and moves for a directed verdict your honor. (And any lawyers out there who want to tell me that a plaintiff cannot move for a directed verdict at the end of his presentation, yes I know, but the evidence is so overwhelming).
by MookieTheCat on Jul 12, 2010 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Even so, Plaintiff never gets a directed verdict no matter how overwhelming lol
You should have moved for summary judgment before trial counselor
"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage
by blueandorange4life on Jul 12, 2010 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions
There was a disputed issue of material fact at the beginning of the season.
Now there is not. Jerry still sucks.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 12, 2010 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Fair enough, although we could probably have come forth with enough evidence
to show no material issue of fact as to Jerry’s stupidity when his planned opening day roster included GMJ and Mike JaKobs.
"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage
by blueandorange4life on Jul 12, 2010 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, the opening statement didn't work out for him.
Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, everything that guy said was a load of crap. Thank you.
Your honor, I object to that statement as argumentative.
Yes, the jury is instructed to disregard everything except “thank you.”
Unfortunately Jerry is no Vinny Gambini or Mona Lisa Vito.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 12, 2010 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions
bay has to at least maintain status quo right?
he can’t get worse
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
reyes, pagan, wright, beltran, bay, ike...
that’s pretty nasty
by Mike Clemente on Jul 12, 2010 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions
i kind of like
ike, bay, thole, second baseman (if thole is playing(if thole stays around))
but your way otherwise
I like Ike
And Pagan has basically been playing at this offensive level for about a year now
And if anything, Bay can only get better.
KC has better BBQ...
But otherwise yes.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 11, 2010 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I REALLY hate to mention this,
but the Royals have all of ONE starter (guess who??) with an OBP under .305.
Betancourt
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?
that guy is still a major leaguer?
what a joke
I like Ike
sheesh they have so many
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
You want to hear something worse?
Of all the Nats who have played in more than 40 games (I found it hard to figure out who the regular starters were given the weirdness of that team), guess how many have an OBP below .300?
Two.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 12, 2010 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions
they have a really good 3-4-5
just bad pitching and defense
I like Ike
willingham must be bffs with dave cameron
and wants to make us rue the day we doubted him.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Apparently they have a better 1-6 than us typically.
And one of the others is Willy Harris, and we all know what he does vis a vis us.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 12, 2010 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Willingham is more the Met killer than Harris. Sure, we all know what he’s done in the field, but do we ever get Willingham out?
do we ever get harris out in big situations?
I like Ike
Not to continue the argumentative streak...
But who exactly constitutes our defensive murderer’s row…
Watching Atlanta’s infield made me think about things. Those guys had the fundies down. Double plays were easy, and that fielder’s choice to home was textbook. With Reyes hurting our infield is problematic.
Not to mention the $5 million gun that can’t shoot straight.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 12, 2010 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions
reyes had been playing great D before the oblique
tejada has a great reputation, though i have had more radio exposure since he came up. davis seems solid at first and dubs is underrated as a third baseman. dont mind our infield D.
bay has been better than expected on D, pagan r0x0rs, and frenchy is like bay with a better arm. dont mind our outfield D.
I like Ike
There's good and there's "you don't worry"
I’ve seen a lot of minor things, like throwing to the wrong base, that tends to aggregate in the long run. Also our defense close to the plate (bunts and the like) just seems lacking to me. I have no stats to back this up but it just seemed like Atlanta was polished and we weren’t. Maybe it’s just that we gave them so many easy DP balls and gophers that it was easier for them, but in the aggregate their performance versus ours is telling.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 12, 2010 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions
our 1-6 will be better
with a healthy jose and w.e we get from carlos that pushes ike and bay back AND removes frenchy
I like Ike
Better may be good...
But not gooderer. And we need gooderer.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 12, 2010 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions
what a surprise though
thole gets an at bat and gets a hit
I like Ike
and probably gets sent down soon =/
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
well feliciano sent down for now
I like Ike
its a toss up
if either were a MI they would be here instead of cora
I like Ike
wow Santana pitches and he gets a "W"
nice salvaging…too bad they didn’t win more against the lousy Reds.
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
that series was pathetic
the Red very easily could have swept the whole dame series, and should have at least come out with a split.
2009 Did Not Happen
who gets swept by the fucking cheesesteaks whichout Utley and Polanco
by secret defense on Jul 11, 2010 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
They have pretty damn good pitching
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?
halladay yes
but the other 4 starters have FIP of 4.58 or higher
I like Ike
4.6 WAR for halladay
2.7 WAR for moyer, hamels, kendrick and blanton
I like Ike
damn even hamels
lulzy
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
well actually
that’s probably cause of cbp. I’d be their xFIP’s are much lower.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
3.76 for Hamels
then 4.45 moyer, 4.61 blanton, 4.79 kendrick
I like Ike
xFIP adjusts league average hr/fb rates
which is why most of the phillies have lower xFIP’s than FIPs, which doesn’t adjust.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Syler, looking at tRA by statcorner
Lilly has been nearly a run better per 9 innings in twice as many innings
I like Ike
Lilly has a 4,40 tRA
Takahashi has a 3.57 tRA
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?
statcorner has taka at 5.27 as a starter
unless i am reading it wrong
I like Ike
Oh, you're right, my bad
I just don’t like the idea of adding Lilly, unless it’s super, super cheap. There are probably guys in our system right now who could put up a 4.40 tRA
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?
I'm thinking of a post on this subject
Lilly/Carmona/Westbrook vs. Taka vs. a few organizational guys who might be just as good (Gee for one). I’m with you on Lily, and Carmona is a little too troubled for me to get behind even if he is younger. Westbrook might be worth a second look but more research is needed.
"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage
by blueandorange4life on Jul 11, 2010 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Bigger point is that old Philly appears to be re-emerging.
Someone send me this via Facebook yesterday.
As much as I want what happened to Henry Hill’s gang to occur to Philly, the level of expectation of Philly fans has gotten deafening.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 12, 2010 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions
I think he realizes that he has to pitch 0 run ball to win.
I hope he keeps it up.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 12, 2010 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions
I take it all back
i guess he is our best pitcher
and carter, reyes, bay, jesus, dubs and all our catchers
thats right, only davis and angel have HR this month
I like Ike
well it's only the 12th
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
our other pitchers all suck
except for Dickey who gave us a chance.
One day, this team is going to kill me.
Niese?
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?
pelfrey wont suck forever
he hasnt had much control lately and if he isnt ahead in the count, its harder for him to get people to chase his splitter. he will return to form soon, like johan did
I like Ike
Having Alex Cora and injured Jose Reyes doesn't help much, either.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jul 11, 2010 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm excited.
With Beltran returning and Johan just being himself, I cannot wait to get things started again on Thursday.
by lefty vs lefty on Jul 11, 2010 5:29 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Am I reading this right?
Francisco Rodriguez came on to close out the game and the first half, tossing just eight pitches in a 1-2-3 ninth to seal the victory.
Holy Christ, this calls for a celebration.
2010: Year of the Grission
I was studying with the game on mute.
I looked up 5 mins after the start of the inning and there were 2 outs and no one on. Was stunned.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 12, 2010 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Is Henry Blanco still alive?
I haven’t seen him in forever.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jul 11, 2010 6:26 PM EDT reply actions
thats because he has only played 10 games since june 10
he played twice in washington, last appearance was last saturday
I like Ike
it makes perfect sense
we’re the mets. barajas is the starter. blanco is the back up. if the starter can go, the starter goes.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Now, good day.
I said, good day!
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jul 11, 2010 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions
and if thole could outperform both
then he should pinch bunt whenever possible
I like Ike
Very off-topic,
But the guys at Good Phight have responded with Big-Helmet David Wright Minotaur.
2010: Year of the Grission
That Wright Minotaur
would kick the Utley Pegasus’s ass!
It's true
Minotaurs are grissiony-er than Pegasi.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jul 11, 2010 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I forgot I registered over there...
But if anyone needs to be a mythical beast, Werth needs to be a Kraken. He just looks Krakenny.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 12, 2010 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions
how is that a response?
Wright just looks bad ass
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
RA Dickey could
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jul 11, 2010 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Parnell also used his slider very effectively to punch out Chipper
I think we should alter his name: Captain SliderBall
"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage
by blueandorange4life on Jul 11, 2010 6:29 PM EDT reply actions
Beltran's Back
With Beltran back in the lineup on Thursday, do we know who’s being sent down/DFA’d?
by ColoradoMetsFan on Jul 11, 2010 6:39 PM EDT reply actions
That's somewhat surprising given a better glove than say Carter?
by ColoradoMetsFan on Jul 11, 2010 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it's the right move
Beltran, Pagan and Francoeur are all capable with the glove, so there isn’t really a need for a good defensive outfielder off the bench. Carter is a better hitter than Jesus. Also Carter is listed as a designated hitter on Mets.com, kinda funny.
by James Kannengieser on Jul 11, 2010 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Is there nobody affiliated with this team that is not inept?
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jul 11, 2010 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions
The Mets.com people said he's our DH
with us being an NL team, and not actually having any DH position.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jul 11, 2010 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions
to be fair
i am pretty sure that happened when the mets were playing in the AL parks and no one has noticed since
I like Ike
the fact that someone is paid to run mets.com
and no one has noticed it yet is still kind of failure.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Exactly
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jul 11, 2010 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions
pretty sure all the MLB team sites
are run by MLB.com – I’m sure each team has its own operator, but the whole network is pretty interconnected.
2009 Did Not Happen
It would be great to see Carter get more at-bats.
The fact that he’s a character doesn’t hurt either.
by ColoradoMetsFan on Jul 11, 2010 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Did anyone hear of this?
Sorry if this was discussed already but I heard it on the radio that once Beltran gets back on Thursday, Angel Pagan will be starting at RF.
Which, in turn, means that TeethCoeur is going to be relegated to the dreaded Defensive-Replacement late in games or something….
Bay, Beltran, Pagan. Now THAT is a potentially-productive outfield with zero “blackholes” on offense.
Strictly speaking about defense production, I believe Pagan would have more mobility and would have better defensive numbers than a post-rehab Beltran in CF.
It’s hard to suddenly expect him to have the same range as before when a few months earlier people were saying it was a “career threatening” injury.
I guess they’ll just roll with him in CF and see how that goes.
Can he use knee braces during a game?
In lobby campaign for Chris Carter.
Says he's pain-free
and wearing the brace for the duration:
he's pain free now
but isn’t he playing bone on bone?
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Hos is that any different than how he played the last few seasons
wasn’t the surgery just to clean out his knee?
my question is
when you do bring in frenchy for D, who do you take out? Beltran and let frenchy/ph hit in the 4 spot, and move Pagan to left field. OR Bay and move Pagan to left field (i would assume he is the one to move because frenchy is less flexible)
I like Ike
Why would you bring him in for defense?
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?
i dont know actually, jerryball
just responding to brockrocks comment
I like Ike
because he has a great arm
and team’s don’t run on him.
The NYT mentioned a platoon, I think with Francouer going against left-handed pitching
by ColoradoMetsFan on Jul 11, 2010 6:48 PM EDT reply actions
Hmm..I can live with that.
Hopefully Smiley-FaceCouer can suck a bit less now whenever he plays.
I'll be amazed if Manuel only starts Frenchy v lefties.
Pleased, but amazed. The Mets haven’t actually figured out he sucks, have they?
From what Manuel said today, that's basically the plan
He said something along the lines of: I’ve got to look at results, we’re in a pennant race here.
He seems to think that with Beltran needing days off he can get Francoeur more than just lefty starts, but if Beltran and Pagan are both doing well, he’s going to have trouble putting Frenchy in to go 0 for 3.
Frenchy, bless his heart, said he’s not going to sulk about it.
Even my mom feels bad for him
“He seems like such a nice guy but he just can’t do it.”
Her exact quote from today. Then she was real happy when he got his double. “Good for him.”
That's awesome.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jul 11, 2010 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions
He's the Anti-Pedro Feliciano.
And by extension he is the anti-Jesus Feliciano, and by that the anti-Jesus, and by that the anti-Christ, and by that he is a Pagan, and by that maybe he will learn how to be an outfielder who can hit the ball.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 12, 2010 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
o this one
well hoping he is going to learn how to hit is how we ended up with this guy in the first place. i would rather someone else was hoping he learned how to hit and we were making fun of them. instead, i am hoping he is good coming off the bench, but pagan is better so frenchy stays right there and maybe increases trade value.
I like Ike
Also mentioning that although Pagan is a swich hitter, he's better batting from the left side.
by ColoradoMetsFan on Jul 11, 2010 6:50 PM EDT reply actions
Left-side Right-Side....Don't matter so long as he plays against Right-handers
and Frenchy plays ONLY against Left-Handers(Starters, I mean).
naw, most of our pitchers don't suck...that is until
only remergence of Oliver Perez and John Maine creates much suckage.
I bet dollars to donuts that everyone on the team gave an exasperated sigh when they heard that the return of these two dodos was imminent! [ and that’s the reasoning behind their recent Citifield suck].
-“No, I don’t want them on the team, NO. they aren’t teammates.”-Annonymous Mets
-“We didn’t need Cliff Lee, we have an Ace in waiting in Oliver Perez,” – what Omar Minaya might say.
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
lol I can actually see Omar saying something like that
about how once Ollie and Maine get healthy we feel like we’ll have enough pitching to not need to make a trade.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
The only options are Oswalt, Haren, and Lilly. I was listening to Jon Heyman with Francesa, and he said the most likely guy is Lilly.
there's westbrook and millwood also
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
I want nothing to do with Millwood. I’ll be honest: i’d take Vazquez off the Yankees hands. You may think i’m nuts, but didn’t he have a 2.87 ERA in the NL last year? And Omar loves him. Of the guys listed, obviously Oswalt, but would McLane be finally willing to part with him?
if i did the quick math right
he has had a 2.75 ERA since may 12
I like Ike
no one here thinks you're nuts for liking Vazquez I promise you
but the Yankees aren’t likely to trade him.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
I'm not worried about shitty relievers bumping good relievers from the pen.
It’s not Green can be worse than Nieve or Dessens.
Dessens at least is lucky. At some point his luckieness has to be considered a skillz. I'm sure he chose to be lucky instead of good.
In lobby campaign for Chris Carter.
by Michkin on Jul 11, 2010 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm beginning to think that Elmer is vastly underrated.
The guy has some bad spots, but recently he’s been the cleanest guy we got besides Parnell.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 12, 2010 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Correction ... he's vastly lucky
His FIP is 3.39 and his xFIP is 5.10. I realize that certain guys can maintain a FIP lower than their xFIP, but he has virtually no peripherals to suggest he can maintain even close to this level of production.
He doesn’t strike guys out (3.93 K/9), has a fairly average walk rate (2.45BB/9), doesn’t induce a particularly high amount of GB’s (40.7 GB% and .96 GB/FB). The only reason he’s been effective is his 0 HR/FB.
Nieve gives up a lot of deep fly balls. Dessens at least seems to get hitters to just
smash linedrives at fielders instead. I guess that’s a case for Dessens > Nieve
i do not look forward to an 11 game road trip
SF – ARI – LA (4 – 3 – 4)
SF and LA will especially be tough
I like Ike
The way the Met have played on the road
even ARI will be tough.
if the d-backs bullpen doesn't show up
they could be incredibly tough
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Their bullpen has an ERA of 6.70
When has it not sucked this season?
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?
i mean literally not show up
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
o shit, then we would be screwed
but if we keep to our grissiony 1 pitch at bats, then they wont come in anyway
I like Ike
Astro...See my post re: Frenchy above.
Interested in your thoughts.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 12, 2010 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions
i really dont know which one
the long one where you say, nuff said?
I like Ike
The Giants have no hitting, and we beat them 2 out of 3. The Diamondbacks are terrible, and we own them in Arizona, and the Dodgers are a quality team, but we swept them already this season. Remember that doubleheader? I was there with my aunt, and everybody was complaining how cold it was? I was there in 2 short sleeve shirts. It really wasn’t that cold.
the facts are
we are on the road, and it wont matter how little hitting the giants have if we cant score off of their better pitchers, we are going to get cain, lincecum, ztio and sanchez.
we are still on the road and it doesnt matter how many games in a row we won out in arizona at one point, we still have to show up on the road and beat them this year.
and the dodgers are a good team, and we have to play them in LA. we couldnt beat cinci and atlanta at home this past week, we need a different team to show up out west
I like Ike
I think we’re dragging. Some guys like Ike, Tejada, even Pelf to a degree, are not used to a season this long and intense. I think it’ll do them wonders to have the All-Star break come now. I would expect to see a much different team take the field in SF thursday night.
pelfrey has been around for a season this long and intense, see 2008
i agree it will help to get rested and their minds off of baseball some, but i dont think we can suddenly expect a whole lot out of tejada. davis may be able to break out some, and we really need him to, but that is no gu
I like Ike
I've been chowing down on crow
Kobayashi-style, re: Francoeur, but I don’t see a whole lot of acknowledgement that maybe -just maybe – the Chris Carter lobby didn’t really know enough about the player to call the Mets idiots for not starting him. .260 OBP??? Wasn’t he patient in AAA?
by tmu on Jul 11, 2010 11:33 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
if i am not mistaken
the lobby was for him starting over mike jakobs
I like Ike
No
I distinctly recall folks wanting him to replace Frenchy . . . whose OBP is 40 points higher. Now, granted, spot duty isn’t easy, but Carter’s poor OBP,coupled with the complete lack of evidence that he could even approach acceptable RF defense, makes that position seem downright silly, in retrospect. But all I hear are crickets.
by tmu on Jul 12, 2010 12:19 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Pinch hitting penalty is about 20 points of wOBA
if I remember correctly. Which is generally around a 60 point drop in OPS. Add in that Carter’s only had 69 at bats, and it’s certainly justifiable to still want Carter over Francouer, if you think his defense will play.
by yellomellojello on Jul 12, 2010 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions
I kinda miss Lenny Harris sometimes...
Reading this is one of those times.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 12, 2010 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions
that was also at a time when frenchy was hitting like .200 for several long weeks, with a like .220 OBP
imo, it seems really hard to say what we have in him at this point, just that i think we would have been better off keeping wagz and offering him arb instead of getting him and that other first base ‘prospect’
I like Ike
Well, this is true
I remember saying that it was like starting John Maine in right, or something similar.
TMU...
How dare you use logic and a defensible recollection of the past to support your argument! For shame, sir, for shame!
by MookieTheCat on Jul 12, 2010 1:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Carter hasn't even had 70 PA
If he walks in his next PA, his BB% more than doubles and OBP goes up 10 points, if he gets a hit, hit average increases 11 points. I’d still take him in RF over Francoeur.
The lobby still stands.
1) Francoeur had in his MLB career 3265 PA to prove what his true talent level is. Carter had 98 PA in his career.
2) Carter is in the ML roster for 2 months. In this period he had 72 PA. That’s 1.2 PA/day.
3) Besides the irregular playing time (he has 3 PA in one day then he doesn’t bat until the next series), he was used primarily as a PH. There is a considerably penalty for PH performance, as already mentioned.
4) Even then, Carter still hit better than Francoeur against righties, that account for most PA:
Francoeur: .223/.271/.375 or .277 wOBA and 70 wRC+
Carter: .257/.278/.414 or .302 wOBA and 86 wRC+
So, you have a guy who had irregular playing time, had the handicap of PH (and DH), yet only 72 AB total, and he still overperformed Francoeur against righties. Yes, I’d still take Carter over Francoeur against RHP.
In lobby campaign for Chris Carter.
by Michkin on Jul 12, 2010 5:31 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
But. . . .
where are you getting any sort of a track record for Carter? You have to do better than Anybody But Frenchy to justify the Carter love.
(cue the “I’d take a dead fish over Frenchy” comments. . . .)
Wait, wait, wait
Never mind.
But you’re complainign abotu sample size, then you’re starting this guy in right against righties on the assumption that pinch hitting is depressing his production, and with no knowledge of his defensive ability, and a poor smile.
well that's probably cause there's a huge sample size that says
Frenchy is horrible against righties, his entire career basically, and a pretty large one that says Carter will at least be around league average vs righties.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
plus lefties cant hit lefties
so they must be able to hit righties
I like Ike
Playing him in RF was based on his minor league numbers. That data suggest he would maintain an average OBP against both righties and lefties but would display more power against righties.
I’ve wrote many times about him, this has nothing to do with “Carter love” or poor smile.
Chris Carter: virtu and fortuna
Also about his defense
In lobby campaign for Chris Carter.
Well
when the reality begins to validate the projections, we’ll talk. As of right now, with Pagan shifting over to right, it’s kind of moot.
Reality won't validate the projections because his window of opportunity was when Beltran was in the DL but they didn't give him a chance to compete against Francoeur.
Or to at least platoon in RF.
And this goes back to the “Mike Jakobs” argument: he is a “proven veteran” because he had MLB experience. They wouldn’t give Carter playing time because he doesn’t have MLB experience. It’s a circular argument trap.
In lobby campaign for Chris Carter.
by Michkin on Jul 12, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I would still take Carter over Frenchy
vs. righthanded pitching every time, thank you. Carter’s really not had enough major league at bats to have an complete opinion on him. Frenchy has. Carter’s had some poor luck on babip, and yes, he’s shown no patience, but a lot of that is that he feels he has to hit to stay up here. If he played regularly vs. righties his numbers would surpass Francoeur’s. So if you’re looking for crickets you won’t find them here.
Frenchy this season vs. righthanded pitching
.223/.272/.373 for a .644 OPS. He really has no business ever starting vs. righties.
that OPS, like his smiles
is freaking hot
I like Ike
Thole
he has impressive ABs over and over, fouls off a lot of pitches to get the big PH again and again…that stuff cant be taught





























