Community Projection: Carlos Beltran
by James Kannengieser on Jul 17, 2010 6:08 PM EDT
Email
PrintUPDATE
I tallied up the results of the community projection, removing the lowest and highest projections:
.276/.363/.460
Basically the community thinks he will be Angel Pagan, with more walks and a lower batting average. This would be outstanding. Voltron is playing tonight against righty Matt Cain and will likely sit tomorrow vs. lefty Jonathan Sanchez. Pagan will play right field tonight and probably shift to center tomorrow. Runs please.
ORIGINAL POST - 7/11/2010
With Carlos Beltran scheduled to return Thursday night in San Francisco, I figured a BA/OBP/SLG community projection was in order. Put your projection in the comments and I'll post the average before the Giants series begins. I'll start:
.275/.355/.455
Some other relevant Voltron slash lines:
Career: .283/.360/.496
2009: .325/.415/.500
Preseason CHONE: .282/.366/.498
171 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
.275/.355/.480
I assume that my dropping of CHONE’s estimate and is based on the idea that his injury will affect him.
.265 / .330 / .450
I’m a bit more pessimistic, but whatever he can give us sure will help.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jul 11, 2010 10:49 PM EDT reply actions
That OBP seems way too low for a guy like Beltran
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?
I figure, Jose Reyes was out for a comparable amount of time
and he’s still working on getting the OBP up to normal levels (recent injury notwithstanding). Beltran, I expect about the same.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jul 11, 2010 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions
excuse me
you’re forgetting that Beltran is not Jose, he’s BELTRAN.
But Ray Ramirez is Ray Ramirez...
And this is who is the first line of defense for medical issues.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 12, 2010 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions
except beltran always knew how to walk
jose has had to work at it a lot
I like Ike
Right, but sluggishness at the plate, no doubt, will impact one's walk rate.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jul 12, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
.278/.370/.495
I’ll go for straight up optimist.
by lefty vs lefty on Jul 11, 2010 10:50 PM EDT reply actions
.280/.365/.490
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?
.000/.000/.000 with 175 sacrifice bunts
Jerry Manuel decides that Beltran will take over the role of bunt extraordinaire in order to keep him from getting hurt. Sadly, Manuel keeps the bunt sign on in all situations—whether there are runners on base or not.
The one and only mistermet on teh Interwebz!
by Steve Schreiber on Jul 11, 2010 10:56 PM EDT reply actions
I'd hope that he'd be able to leg out a hit via bunting every now and again, too.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jul 11, 2010 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions
jerry might ask him to make sure they're "sacrifice" bunts
and keeping him from running hard will keep him healthy.
.270/.350/.483
May you be locked in a battle of wits against Jerry Manuel.
by BobbyV_Incognito on Jul 11, 2010 11:17 PM EDT reply actions
.285/.375/.510
I support Jenrry Mejia as a starter. Screw you Jerry Manuel for thinking he's a set-up man.
1.000/1.000/4.000
Homerun every plate appearance!
No…?
then 280/370/500
Ryan Miller was the true MVP.
Yes, the first line is correct as long as it's this guy on the field...
The one and only mistermet on teh Interwebz!
by Steve Schreiber on Jul 12, 2010 1:33 AM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
From el onion
Although Manuel said he had to settle an argument over who got to be the robot’s head, his final lineup was David Wright and José Reyes forming the legs, Ramón Castro and Ryan Church making the feet, Nick Evans and Johan Santana completing the arms, Carlos Delgado and Luis Castillo joining to create the torso, and Carlos Beltrán forming the head.
Uh oh. Jerry would probably mess up Voltron 2.0
Ryan Miller was the true MVP.
About that one arm...
Who?
Never gets old.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 18, 2010 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions
.265/330/480
"Since we became accelerated readers, we never leave the house." - Los Campesinos
What does Chone Figgins have to do with this?
But yeah, wow guys, let’s not everyone disagree and get all over the board here. Since someone has to be realistic, here’s my projection, by month.
Remainder of July: .310/.360/.420
August: .280/.350/.480
September: .255/.300/.340 (soaking wet).
October: 1-16.
What about the world series against the yanks??
Ryan Miller was the true MVP.
by Jsz on Jul 11, 2010 11:43 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Not sure if I get your meaning?
You mean his incredible performance in the playoffs for the Astros in 04 that got his his huge contract with the Metsies?
by MookieTheCat on Jul 11, 2010 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Nah.
I wasn’t clear. I mean when the Mets charge into November to the world series and play the yanks, of course.
Ryan Miller was the true MVP.
by Jsz on Jul 12, 2010 12:01 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Ah...
The thing that hasn’t happened. If it does, I will be here cheering with you and will be happy to eat my words. But yeah, I would not count on it and managing expectations is key to being non-suicidal as a serious Mets fan in the long run.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 12, 2010 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm not banking on it either.
I have seen 2007-present. I’m all too aware. I would be estatic with the wild card and a first round exit.
Ryan Miller was the true MVP.
by Jsz on Jul 12, 2010 12:42 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
if we get the wildcard
anything beautiful can happen. look at those f*ing 06 cardinals
I like Ike
First things first.
Ryan Miller was the true MVP.
by Jsz on Jul 12, 2010 12:49 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
But you forget one thing.
The 06 Cards had…GRISSION.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 12, 2010 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions
i didnt realize grission meant white
cora doesnt have grission?
I like Ike
You didn't realize the racist subtext of GRISSION?
by MookieTheCat on Jul 12, 2010 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Here's my cultural take...
If you grow up in the Caribbean, and make a few million you’re set for life and with the cache of being a baseball player, you are the king of whatever town you’re from. (See Tatis, Fernando). If you grow up in the US millions don’t last as long and you also realize that whatever you do, the stigma of being a bad ballplayer will follow you forever (see Sisk, Doug). So it’s not a racial issue so much as a cultural approach to a major league career. Plus. increased educational opportunities and the instilled values of capitalism here create a sense that baseball should be a means to an end, not an end in itself, and that drives US-born players to the ends of their ability, rather than to a contract (see Hernandez, Keith), even if it causes them to be a douchebag (see Rodriguez, Alex).
Really, it’s a continuing effect of the colonial era in a sense. For me it’s not a racial issue, but I understand that for a lot of folks it is, and thats kind of sad.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 12, 2010 1:08 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
When your making several million dollars a year as even a below average player
That becomes an end. That’s why it’s ridiculous basketball players HAVE to attend college for a year.
Right on both counts...
Though I disagree with the idea that it’s ridiculous that basketball players have to attend college only in the sense that minor leagues are expensive for a sport where there is no allure of a night out in a ballpark, so colleges fill the lower A role for them. How many people go to D league games? It makes perfect economic sense to require this, and frankly given the number of people who think they are NBA caliber and those who in fact are, I support athletic scholarships being 5-year mandatory, rather than discretionary if someone doesn’t make the cut.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 12, 2010 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions
that is just silly
if you are going to have to play college ball (of any kind) then you should be forced to finish college. also, you should be allowed sponsors and such in college if ESPN and others are going to be making money off of you anyway. thats a sketchy area though, because only the best would be making money and those would already have scholarships.
I like Ike
Disagree on only the following minor point..
You can’t be forced to finish college. You can be given the opportunity to finish even if your finances would not otherwise allow. And I agree that college athletes should not be held to the same standards than were used to disgrace Jim Thorpe. The use of athletes is shameful. Optimally the profits from ESPN etc. would be directed towards real funding of scholarship programs and ancillary services to ensure graduation.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 12, 2010 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions
they can be forced to major in professional athlete
i just think it is silly for them not to finish it and they have a lot of maturity to gain from finishing it. look at matt harvey, 1 year away from getting a degree from UNC or he can get a possibly once in a lifetime, 7 figure deal to play in the minors and have a tiny chance of making the majors. i dont see many people passing up that opportunity, but if he fails then what does he do? he will most likely spend at least 6 years trying, probably will keep trying until no one will give him a chance. by then his credits might not even be worth anything, he probably wasted a good amount of his money just focusing on getting to the majors and doesnt have many options outside of the baseball world. i know you cant force college on anyone, but you should because one can do practically nothing just out of high school these days, and like i said originally, they can learn a lot of maturity and about themselves or their sport just by finishing college
I like Ike
He should do that
only if he wants to. MOST people don’t go to college, and a majority of them take five or more years to finish. If it takes Matt Harvey some extra time, so be it. He’s an adult, he should be making that choice. Most schools accept credits from their institution for a minimum of five years, and will accept course taken longer ago than that if the instructor signs a waiver attesting that the course content is reasonably current.
You used the word "silly",
and you may well be perfectly right, even in the majority of instances. But, with all due respect, so what? People do silly things all the time, young adults probably more often than older adults, but again, so what? There is simply no way we should legislate against people making choices detrimental to their own self-interests as long as those choices aren’t illegal or don’t infringe on someone else’s rights.
in 2005
50.6 % of people 18-21 attended college. that would be most. that they dont finish is often because they choose the wrong college and assume it is wrong for them. but it doesnt change the fact they cant do much without a college degree, as more and more people are realizing as they decide to go back.
as for accepting credit, the schools i have been involved with dont even want credits from other schools and certainly dont want them from more than 5 years ago. sure, introductory stuff, but depending on the major, syllabus and general courses taken towards that major, not many of the credits may be applicable to another school. also, that a person has taken so much time off to pursue athletics might make it difficult to find a school as good as UNC (in Harvey’s case) to accept them.
I like Ike
actually this
Of the 2.9 million youth age 16 to 24 who graduated from high school in January
through October 2009, 2.1 million (70.1 percent) were enrolled in college in
October 2009.
I like Ike
btw, we shouldn't omit hs dropouts
from the overall calculation.
just what came up on some government site
probably the first one i saw on google search
I like Ike
Agree with this completely...
And that’s why I support the mandatory 5 year scholarship, to be used within 5 years or when you return after chasing the dream (assuming you do not have the means after a signing bonus). I think that a college degree is critical nowadays in a number of respect, two of which are increased opportunity later in life and a basic sense of accomplishment and maturity. Of course, after a 7 figure signing bonus maybe the scholarship should go to someone else who really needs it, but the opportunity to finish at the end of your sports career should be there regardless of actual need.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 12, 2010 1:36 AM EDT up reply actions
That makes a lot of sense.
Offer the player the option, encourage them to return if the dream doesn’t work out (or even if it does), but don’t force them to do anything.
Right.
See below. I knew a lot of athletes who might not have gotten in based on academic merit but who came through in the clutch because they were given the opportunity to show their merit in an environment that was not forgiving. Most performed well, and knew that they were not given gentleman’s C’s on their way. For me that’s important.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 12, 2010 1:43 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah but a person who is good at sports
but never had good grades in high school shouldnt take the spot of a person who worked hard and had better grades, but were only good enough to be waitlisted at a particular school.
I like Ike
I don't disagree....
But there needs to be some reccogntion that he who spends time excelling at sports might just have the discipline to excel at other things. I don’t think that the 2 are as far separated as many feel. We all know dumb jocks and spatially inept nerds. But for the majority of students and student athletes the distinction is more one of where priorities lay.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 12, 2010 1:52 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah but lets say the athlete puts his priorities in books
for the first time, no reason to believe he will do better than the person i described who worked all the time and just wasn’t good on tests or something, and getting into college and getting a job should be based on who is most qualified, not who can run fastest.
I like Ike
Yeah no need to argue this point.
What I think you are saying is that standards that allow student-athletes to the derogation of the student part of the equation are unjust. I cannot disagree, except to say that rules that restrict student athletes more than students are equally unjust.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 12, 2010 2:00 AM EDT up reply actions
i mean i disagree
what is a pro athlete going to do except keep us up at night talking about them or give us something to watch. in college it should be student first, athlete second
I like Ike
If they stop giving me shit to bitch about on AA
It’s all over. I’m done with sports in general. Otherwise. I’ll have to watch 11 hour tennis matches or soccer, where everything seems 11 hours long.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 12, 2010 2:09 AM EDT up reply actions
By the way...
A lot of this was motivated by the fact that I went to an Ivy, where athletic scholarships are barred. They give financial aid completely on a need basis, just like they gave to me with my 2 inch ups and working class background. I think this is a much better system, primarily because the athletic scholarship system is so corrupt. Admit students and give them a ride if they need it, and preserve that ride—as mine was—so long as you pass classes.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 12, 2010 1:39 AM EDT up reply actions
well that sounds like, duh
but this world doesnt give the same stardom to brains as it does athletes
I like Ike
Not so sure..
Among my college friends and acquaintances are (i) Larry Page’s wife (ii) the guy who wrote Harold & Kumar (iii) the guy who wrote Hot Tub TIme Machine (iv) John Legend (v) more than a few internet millionaires of the late 90s variety. I’m not one of them, clearly because I spend my time on here, but….
by MookieTheCat on Jul 12, 2010 1:55 AM EDT up reply actions
If I can ask,
what on earth is a “2 inch up”?
that doesnt make them all that famous, like most athlete-level famous
you didnt list the names of the writers because you knew i would be like who? and even john legend i had to look up because i dont know anything about modern music. you also didnt list the internet millionaires because again i would be like who? and larry page created freaking google, and yet a lot of people still dont know who he is.
i dont see how that disproves my point
I like Ike
These were folks who were not athletes
Who were incredible in their own right, without athletics. Who did something without having the motor coordination skills. The point was that of these people, and of the athletes I know, to quote the NCAA “they all majored in something other than athletics.” It might not make them famous, but in their own little part of the universe they are famous and have excelled.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 12, 2010 2:04 AM EDT up reply actions
well then they are not stars
which is all i was saying. not many people know the smartest biologist or physicist, but they can likely name the best NFL, MLB or NBA player. if not, they can name the host of the Soup or someone else on TV
I like Ike
Whoah.
Don’t bad mouth the Soup. Now you’re crossing a line for me.
Ryan Miller was the true MVP.
by Jsz on Jul 12, 2010 9:49 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Ok then. I thought you were subtley implying it. Let’s move along here
Ryan Miller was the true MVP.
by Jsz on Jul 12, 2010 6:59 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I support no restraint of trade whatsoever.
The idea that a league can force someone not in the league to do ANYTHING against their wishes strikes me as grotesque (no offense intended). Forcing a basketball player to play a year of college is only incidentally, if at all, in the player’s interests.
1 year certainly isnt
but 4 years might be
I like Ike
isnt helpful or in the players interest
I like Ike
if you are going to force one year upon a player
you might as well force all four, they will have gained no maturity waiting that one year to be drafted
I like Ike
Or, if you're not going to force one year,
you might as well not force anything. Besides, why is it your decision that they will have gained no maturity? I don’t know that, and I don’t think anyone can know that. Some people will, some won’t. In a very real sense, it is none of my business. Because a guy can throw a ball through a hoop or hit one a long way we get to tell him how much time he has to go to college? How does that make any sense?
By that logic we should force everyone to go to college, since it’s in society’s interests to have a more mature citizenry. But we don’t because telling someone what to do for an entire year is incredibly intrusive, and that imagined gain is far less than the very real infringement on another person’s liberty. We should never do that lightly, or because we think it will do an adult something we consider “good”. It presumes, remarkably, that we know better than the adult athlete does.
by Jack Str on Jul 12, 2010 1:56 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
well would you have called carmelo or lebron
an adult athlete when they first made it? or even call lebron one now?
i think people should be forced to some sort of college even a cheap or free community one or a training one, they get forced to high school. if for nothing else to get some life training skills they will miss out going right into some (likely) dead end job so they dont get taken advantage of. and by life training, i mean classes that arent currently offered
I like Ike
Radical.
Trying to force someone through college is like trying to force a frog through a toilet drain. If they go on their own volition, it’s likely to work out. If you force them, it’s called flushing (HOME OF CITI FIELD) :P
by MookieTheCat on Jul 12, 2010 2:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Actually, the NBA doesn't force players to go to college for 1 year.
The rule only states that no one can enter the NBA draft until at least 1 year has passed since his HS class graduated. When the owners passed the rule, there were a few people who worried that HS players would just go play overseas for the year instead of going to college.
May you be locked in a battle of wits against Jerry Manuel.
by BobbyV_Incognito on Jul 12, 2010 2:07 AM EDT up reply actions
way to be the voice of fact
and end this discussion
I like Ike
Yeah.
Screw you for doing the thing we should have done an hour ago. :P
by MookieTheCat on Jul 12, 2010 2:11 AM EDT up reply actions
they're not "forcing" anyone to do anything
if you want to play in the NBA, you have to be a year removed from high school. That’s it, that’s the only rule. You don’t have to go to college, you can go to Europe (ala Brandon Jennings) or you can sit on your ass, or you can just say “well, then, screw the NBA.”
Lots of other jobs require college degrees. Is that grotesque?
2009 Did Not Happen
Yes, it is grotesque
Education has become a business like any other. Colleges want bigger named athletes to generate more revenue, and they sure as hell aren’t making things cheaper or better for the regular students with that extra money. There’s a reason private schools especially raise the GPAs of their students. That way the students graduate and get better jobs so the school can just add that to its success stories.
There is no benefit for many of these guys to waste a year in school when they have the ability to go straight into the NBA. Like anyone else, if you were 18 and had a six figure salary job waiting, would you go to college in hopes of having a similar job in four or six or eight years?
by Evan_S on Jul 12, 2010 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The way the colleges operate is a different story
and not really related. The NBA has decided that it would be better for its business to not take kids who are right out of high school (and I believe they’re correct). Playing in the NBA is not a right – but even if it’s what you really want to do, you do not have to go to college. I repeat, you DO NOT HAVE TO GO TO COLLEGE.
And again, lots of professions actually do require that people go to college. I’m 100% convinced that law school is the least necessary invention in human history – a college grad who studies hard enough and works in a law firm would be able to do the job just as well if not better than most 3L’s, but the legal profession has decided it would be better for business if they required a JD for people to become lawyers. I ask again, is that any more grotesque than what the NBA has done?
2009 Did Not Happen
Rec'd, any post that takes Doug Sisk down a peg or two.
is A-okay in my book.
Alex Cora + Jeff Francouer. Suck it, 2006 Cards!
Ryan Miller was the true MVP.
by Jsz on Jul 12, 2010 12:51 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Aleff Francoeura to the rescue!
Keeping OBP’s low and morale up.
The one and only mistermet on teh Interwebz!
by Steve Schreiber on Jul 12, 2010 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions
.285/.380/.495
Call it extremely wishful optimisim
"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage
by blueandorange4life on Jul 12, 2010 12:10 AM EDT reply actions
.275/.370/.435
I’m guessing his power will be down, but he’s patient enough to still be valuable.
by yellomellojello on Jul 12, 2010 12:18 AM EDT reply actions
I think you might be underselling the power a little bit.
Personally, I think he’s going to be able to take advantage of the gaps at Citi Field, so even if he gets fewer home runs, he’ll still see a good number of doubles and triples.
May you be locked in a battle of wits against Jerry Manuel.
by BobbyV_Incognito on Jul 12, 2010 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions
i was thinking the avg/obp were close to his numbers from last september
but i was wrong, he hit .284/.377/.403 in 77 PA. i wouldnt change my first two much, but i might lower my slugging some if i redid it. like .298/.400/.440 or something, but i like my first answer
I like Ike
I'm predicting a cold September...
Amateur meteorology is kinda something I do. Carlos + cold = bad.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 12, 2010 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions
thats something i need to learn how to do
if he puts up for us this year what he did last september, we will all be pretty happy.
I like Ike
Agree with that...
One can always hope. Maybe it’s not the cold and he just is a 3 or 4 month guy. If that’s the case, the I will celebrate with you. Looking back at 04, I realized something. He played for the Astros against the Dodgers and the Cards in the playoffs. All three of these places are still warm in October. This makes me think.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 12, 2010 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Yep.
A lot warmer than NY. St. Louis can be cold but by and large it’s Indian summer time.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 12, 2010 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Or you could look at his career splits
Mar/Apr – .393 wOBA
May – .374 wOBA
June – .374 wOBA
July – .374 wOBA
Aug – .410 wOBA
Sept/Oct – .373 wOBA
And his 2008 September was the 3rd highest wOBA of his career.
Yes....
I would trust career splits.
In Citi Field and coming off a year on the shelf at 32. They are very instructive. Very, very instructive.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 12, 2010 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions
dude, he just shot your theorizing all to hell
take it like a man.
Hahhahaaha.
The thing is that I hope he’s right. But I’m not convinced. Career stats include Astros performance in late 2004, which is not indicative of anything nowadays. I hope he’s right, but after nearly 30 years of Mets watching I am assured that he is not.
Shot my theorizing to hell? There are 50 deepwater wells. How many are gushing oil? The one owned by Beltan’s Performance?
by MookieTheCat on Jul 12, 2010 1:46 AM EDT up reply actions
.265/.340/.440
Knee is not all full strength and is being rushed into action lacking typical performance readiness for a month.
.260/.340/.442
He’ll start out fairly well, Manuel will play him too often, he’ll get hurt again, come back to soon, hit poorly, then get shut down for the season September 3rd.
Mets win the WS in 5 versus the Yankees, anyway.
.283/.366/.490
I think he comes back and plays solid baseball – probably not as strong a fielder, but still solid.
I’ll feel very fulfilled if the Mets make it to October and win a playoff series. I expect to seriously contend for a championship next season if the Yankees don’t sign Cliff Lee.
If the Yanks do sign Lee, I expect the Mets to contend for the National League pennant.
My 5-year old daughter even hates the Ravens.
by SundaysWithTroy on Jul 12, 2010 12:52 AM EDT reply actions
I think we'll see an upswing in Bay and Davis' numbers from this.
Beltran will lengthen the lineup and get on base alot.
My 5-year old daughter even hates the Ravens.
by SundaysWithTroy on Jul 12, 2010 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions
This I am not so sure about...
Ike maybe. Bay probably not.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 12, 2010 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Bay has nowhere to go but up.
He’ll even it out. When he gets hot, he can carry a team by himself.
My 5-year old daughter even hates the Ravens.
by SundaysWithTroy on Jul 12, 2010 3:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Bay has to improve
Everything except the homers, he’s been mostly fine. The power, we know he has it. We don’t know where it went, but power doesn’t randomly go away, and then never come back.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jul 12, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Right, not when everything else
has stayed the same and he is at his peak physically.
LeBron: Yo Dwyane, dead ass you won't fuck my mom? Or Bosh neither?
bay? is definitely pas his physical peak
I like Ike, I hate Jerry
Is he?
He is 31 right now and has avoided any real major injury. If he is past his physical peak, it isn’t by a lot. He may not have much longer left at the top of his game, but I still consider 31 a prime year, especially for a relatively healthy guy throughout his career.
LeBron: Yo Dwyane, dead ass you won't fuck my mom? Or Bosh neither?
yes, the peak age is between 27 and 29
after that decline starts
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/how-do-baseball-players-age-part-1/
I like Ike, I hate Jerry
I don't agree with that.
Maybe 29 is the best of the years for some people, but I know damn lot of 31 year olds in awesome shape. Either way, it’s semantics. Keep arguing if you wish.
LeBron: Yo Dwyane, dead ass you won't fuck my mom? Or Bosh neither?
I think you're likely to be right here...
But wrong about the following. Beltran is a GREAT centerfielder. He covers more ground than almost anyone and does it so effortlessly that there are not the ZOMG type of plays you see from guys with great athletic ability who don’t read balls off the bat like he does.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 12, 2010 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions
right
but the knee will factor into his range
I’m not saying he’ll be bad, but I don’t think it’s fair to expect him to be the Carlos of old in centerfield. Somewhere in the middle, more towards the good side should be enough. I still expect him to get to alot of balls, FWIW. I don’t want to see him diving for a while, though.
My 5-year old daughter even hates the Ravens.
by SundaysWithTroy on Jul 12, 2010 3:33 AM EDT up reply actions
so i take it you expect the mets to sign lee?
and be spending 40 mil on two pitchers? plus w.e krod will earn next year
I like Ike
No
I think the Yankees will. I hope Texas does. I know the Mets won’t.
My 5-year old daughter even hates the Ravens.
by SundaysWithTroy on Jul 12, 2010 3:30 AM EDT up reply actions
.253/.303/.391
Looks familliar, doesn’t it?
How about an Orange Monster at Citi Field for Bay?
by Mets-Suns-Texans on Jul 12, 2010 1:14 AM EDT reply actions
Where have I seen this before?
Actually wondering…
by MookieTheCat on Jul 12, 2010 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Just take a look at my screen name
How about an Orange Monster at Citi Field for Bay?
by Mets-Suns-Texans on Jul 12, 2010 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions
so you are predicting jeff francoeur production out of beltran
ouch, for shame
I like Ike
Oh, now I remember.
Ok, I have to confess something. I wanted to make a 1992 joke here, because they were so awful, so I checked the stats. This is worse than Bobby Bonilla from 1992. That is all.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 12, 2010 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions
so glad i was 4 turning 5 that year
I like Ike
And I was born that year.
How about an Orange Monster at Citi Field for Bay?
by Mets-Suns-Texans on Jul 12, 2010 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Talk to your dads or a close family friend alive then...
About the Bobby Bo disappointment. It will just make you sad.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 12, 2010 1:48 AM EDT up reply actions
i would but no one in my family watches baseball but me
that said, i have looked into enough mets history to know it was painful
I like Ike
Way to make me feel old, Mookie.
Damn kids.
May you be locked in a battle of wits against Jerry Manuel.
by BobbyV_Incognito on Jul 12, 2010 2:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Sorry man.
It was not my intention to make you feel sad. I honestly didn’t think anyone would get the gravity of what I said.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 12, 2010 2:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Ok, for the younger ones among us...
Here was the deal in 91-92. Bobby Bonilla was a part of the 1-2 punch in Pittsburgh that included Barry Bonds. The Mets, after about 6 years of contention in 1990, brought Bonilla in to replace Straw and other folks who through drug abuse and age had begun to wane. The symbolic figures he was intended to replace were NY heroes—the kind of guys like Keith Hernandez, Gary Carter and early Kevin Mitchell (to this day, in my mind the best natural player I’ve ever seen). Bobby Bo was always seen as equal or superior to Barry Bonds in those days, at least for a little while. We lost Davey Johnson and everything went to shit. Bobby, fairly or unfairly, was supposed to be the savior. AND HE WAS FUCKING AWFUL. For years. And Eddie Murray etc.
The subtext of this story is that I believe Mets fans being overly judgmental and in need of immediate service subverts the ability of the team to obtain good players and keep them (see Wagner, W.) Sad to say that I am part of the problem.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 12, 2010 2:24 AM EDT up reply actions
looking at his stats, saying he was awful in big caps seems a bit much
if he was expected to be a savior, then yes he came up short, and maybe he was overpaid – i dont know what the contract was just that we are still paying him. he still had his career high in homeruns in 93 and an .878 OPS in 94 though.
I like Ike
"Bobby Bo was always seen as equal or superior to Barry Bonds in those days, at least for a little while"
BBWAA would disagree with that, considering Bonds was the MVP in 1990 & 92 in Pittsburgh and barely missed in 91. Bonilla wasn’t awful except to people who really thought he was as good as Bonds. The best face you could put on it was Bonds: Bonilla:: Jordan: Pippen. In other words, Bonilla was a good player, just not The Man. And when people realized it, they took it out on Bobby.
But your general point in your first paragraph is correct, Mookie: the FO lost its way by that time, really starting IMO with Dykstra & McDowell for Juan Samuel. That ended the 1984-1990 era. Well, that and they stopped playing The Curly Shuffle.
From Fred to Jeff
and O to Jerr
Funny things
Are everywhere
- Dr. Seuss (if he were a Mets fan)
Ok, I'll give you this...
I was a bigger fan of Andy Van Slyke than either of them. But looking at stats doesn’t explain how bad Bonilla was. You had to be there. Since i believe you were given the great thing you wrote about the 86 NLCS the other day, I can only explain it by the fact that you probably had already become Mets-jaded prior to 86 and the Bonilla thing didn’t cut you the way it cut me.
Oh man, I totally forgot about the Juan Samuel debacle. It’s like a lemon juice + paper cut all over again.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 18, 2010 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions
The fact that his 1993 WAR was 3.4
Tells you more about the deficiencies of WAR than Bobby Bonilla.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 18, 2010 2:06 AM EDT up reply actions
fangraphs has him at 3.8 that year
and it really wasn’t a bad season. decent average, especially considering his awful BABIP, high HR total, ok OBP, good SLG
I like Ike, I hate Jerry
Andy Van Slyke
In my top 5 fav players ever. Then and now. Great player, better name.
by James Kannengieser on Jul 18, 2010 6:09 AM EDT up reply actions
.255/.350/.455
Cant expect much more. Beltran’s great ,but returning from an injury like that takes some time.
by Blame-everyone-else on Jul 12, 2010 1:34 AM EDT reply actions
Not much pop, but I'm optimistic after Carlos' post-op
.320/.405/.460.
Remember last year, he was hitting .340 for while? I believe Carlos is underrated, cerrebraly speaking (though that has a negative connotation
as well as he seems to overthink situations).
All his past games, all this waiting around is leading to a guy with a great average and stellar obp, but it’s the slugging % I’m most fretting about. If his knees aren’t up to snuff I fear a lack of power.
by keepcoolbutcare on Jul 12, 2010 2:45 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
.270/.380/.460
I’m optimistic
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
.275/.365/.450
I bet Jerry Manuel just bunted.
1000/1000/1000
anything else is just not acceptable.
seriously, though….
.290/360/420
One day, this team is going to kill me.
singles every plate appearance?
I like Ike
I think you guys are being far too pessimistic.
It is reasonable to expect his power will be down, but he’s also coming back in July and August. I’m think his line will be singles and doubles heavy, with plenty of walks:
.278/.390/.455
Call me crazy.
I agree
I think some of these projections are seriously underselling his plate discipline. Last year he had more walks than strikeouts.
ain't had enough...
I think he'll be average at best.
Someone said .268/.362/.398 earlier. Sounds about right to me.
Yes, I like Jeff Francoeur and listen to WFAN. No, I am not a troll.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Amazin' Avenue
Related FanShots on Amazin' Avenue
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recommended FanShots
Recent FanShots
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
Baseball Nation Recent Stories
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Snoop Dogg delivers memorable first pitch at U.S. Cellular Field
- The Juice: Mesoraco’s grand slam helps Reds complete four-game sweep of Braves
- Please hold: Indians’ Joe Smith jumps the gun on relief appearance
- Local radio host honors Cubs’ Tony Campana with parody song
- Roy Halladay bobblehead with glove on wrong hand selling on MLB.com
