Diamondbacks 9, Mets 6: I Hate Snakes
David Wright = Raiders Of The Lost Ark
Ike Davis = Temple Of Doom
Angel Pagan = Last Crusade
Jeff Francoeur = Kingdom Of The Crystal Skull
The Diamondbacks are 4-10 since the All Star break -- and all four wins have come at the expense of the Mets. Lack of offense was the problem during last week's sweep in Arizona. Tonight, the Mets' pitching was the culprit, specifically Mike Pelfrey and Raul Valdes. Big Pelf allowed three runs in the first inning and gave way to Valdes in the sixth with two outs, Ian Kennedy on first (due to a Jose Reyes error) and the Mets leading 5-4. Valdes proceeded to have the the worst 14 pitch outing in MLB history: 0 IP, four hits, four runs, two home runs allowed. Boom, 9-5 Diamondbacks lead. Jerry Manuel realized something was amiss and lifted Valdes for Manny Acosta, who struck out all four batters he faced. Acosta induced three more swinging strikes than Pelfrey, and he did it in 94 fewer pitches.
Pelfrey has been a disaster for about two months now. In his last nine starts, he has a K/BB ratio of 18:20, spanning 44.1 innings. His velocity is fine and injury seems an unlikely explanation for his woes. ERA regression was a reasonable explanation about four starts ago but his recent outings point to something beyond that. Maybe R.A. Dickey can teach him a knuckleball, because the Pelf splitter that was so effective early this season doesn't seem to be fooling batters anymore.
I noted in Wednesday's recap that losses are less aggravating when the good players perform well. Reyes, Pagan and Wright combined to go 7-13 with one walk, and David smacked two home runs. The dingers accounted for the Mets' first five runs and gave David sole possession of the team lead in home runs, with 17.
If the team is to lose, I'd prefer the dregs of the lineup fail in order to emphasize the shortcomings of the front office. Two major symbols of that front office failure, Luis Castillo and Francoeur, had miserable games. They combined to go 0-8 with one walk. Contrast Castillo's suckage with Kelly Johnson's 2-4, one walk, one home run performance. The latter cost $2.35 million on a one year deal while the former signed for four years, $25 million. Frenchy saw 13 pitches and swung at eight of them. He has the highest swing % in MLB and the second highest O-swing % (the percentage of pitches he swings at outside the strike zone). So much for the laser show.
The quicker Castillo, Francoeur and Ollie Perez are jettisoned from this team, the better. If even one of them is still around in 2011 it would be a total joke.
Hisanori Takahashi and Barry Enright are the starting pitchers Saturday night. First pitch is at 7:10. Frank Cashen, Dwight Gooden, Davey Johnson and Darryl Strawberry will be inducted into the Mets Hall of Fame before Sunday's game. I plan to watch "1986 Mets: A Year To Remember", for the 891st time in tribute.
Poem by Howard Megdal
Wright stakes Big Pelf with a pair of prodigious drives
But Pelf staggers, the Valdes makes Mets run for their lives
To see D'Backs against Mets, pillage and plunder
You'd never believe they were 30 games under
SB Nation Coverage
* Traditional Recap
* Boxscore
* Amazin' Avenue Gamethread
* AZ Snakepit Gamethread
Win Probability Added
Big winners: David Wright +47.9%, Jose Reyes +5.0%
Big losers: Raul Valdes -62.3%, Jeff Francoeur -9.9%
Teh aw3s0mest play: David Wright two-run homer +24.0%
Teh sux0rest play: Kelly Johnson two-run homer -33.5%
Total pitcher WPA: -68.1%
Total batter WPA: +18.1%
GWRBI!: Miguel Montero
Game Thread Roll Call
Nice job by MookieTheCat; his effort in the game thread embiggens us all.
| Num | Name | # of Posts |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | MookieTheCat | 161 |
| 2 | fxcarden | 133 |
| 3 | CTRefJay | 103 |
| 4 | aparkermarshall | 98 |
| 5 | Help!I'maRock! | 97 |
| 6 | Gina | 80 |
| 7 | Jsz | 78 |
| 8 | itsmetsforme | 76 |
| 9 | TWilliAM | 76 |
| 10 | astromets | 74 |
192 comments
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Comments
Jeff called it alright
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
I am so sick of watching Cora, Castillo and Francoeur
They literally do nothing well, and they’re costing this team dearly.
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?
That pretty much sums it up
Carrying players who produce nothing is a bad way to run an organization.
And for the love of crap, put pelf on the DL and give him 2 weeks to clear his head. He looks defeated from the second he steps on the mound
by HotChipWillBreakYourLegs on Jul 30, 2010 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions
we all been saying this all year
I like Ike, I hate Jerry
WFAN is even saying this now.
Evan Roberts (I think) was saying how Francoeur makes him want to rip out his eyeballs and he mocked his fire, attitude, and niceness. Later Roberts said it like Francoeur and Barajas were having a contest to see who can get out the quickest.
Uh oh.
When WFAN turns on Francoeur, you know things aren’t good.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jul 31, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
when WFAN picks up on the truth
you know its been happening for too long
I like Ike, I hate Jerry
I was happy about that
Gary, for whatever reason, had been defending Francoeur for a long time. During his last hot streak he was calling Frenchy “a revelation” every night.
by James Kannengieser on Jul 31, 2010 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Wait, hold on...
Since WFAN is now getting on Frenchy, shouldn’t we all be liking him?
by MookieTheCat on Jul 31, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
o god
im over how good gkr are, though i still wish i had sny to listen to them over wayne hagin
I like Ike, I hate Jerry
I've disliked the things Ron and Gary (and Keith, I haven't liked him ever) have been saying for a long time now.
Thing is, though, there are very few announcers out there who are better; other people would probably be saying worse things.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jul 31, 2010 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I just chalk most of it up to certain guys being "popular players"
so they go easy on them – not that they’re SABER inclined.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
also i think it's safe to say
we need pitching, and offense, and relief help
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
And an intelligent medical staff
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jul 30, 2010 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions
We need to clone him
"we believe in comebacks"
Jerry being Jerry
by Jadden Hopkins on Jul 30, 2010 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Jason Heyward?
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jul 31, 2010 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Your grandpa is Jason Heyward?
That’s awesome and paradoxical!
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jul 31, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
jerry
am I crazy or did Jerry waste a player in the 6th by putting Thole in the 8 hole without letting him bat there instead of Carter? Next inning he has Feliciano up pinch-hitting to lead off. That is 3 for 2, with the best hitter getting skipped.
I think I am at the point where I feel that I should just rip my eyes out whenever Francoeur is up.
Consequences will never be the same.
well, you'll only have to do it once!
Unless you put your eyes back in for Pagan/Wright
Ryan Miller was the true MVP.
As usual a lousy team
is killing the Mets to end their season
by aparkermarshall on Jul 30, 2010 11:03 PM EDT reply actions
you mean the mets or the dbags
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Jul 31, 2010 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Castillo will barely be able to walk in 2011
and probably won’t be able to hit the ball out of the infield.
So it'll be just like this season, and last season...
I have a feeling we’ll be stuck with him.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 30, 2010 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions
did you see him crush that ball in the 9th
it must have gone like 300 ft
I like Ike, I hate Jerry
that image is ugly to say the least
really drives the point home.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
It doesn't matter how many "bad" teams we play
because we can’t beat them anymore
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?
So I've been thinking...
Is the Castillo contract the worst in recent Mets history? I mean, Ollie is bad, but as a pitcher he can be stuck in the BP and brought out only to pitch in critical extra-inning games on the ro….wait, I mean blowouts. In terms of sheer inexplicable, excruciating failure night after night, year after year, I have to say that I can’t think of anyone who tops Castillo.
My vote goes to Castillo.
Bonilla?
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jul 30, 2010 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Note use of the word "recent"
This was done explicitly to remove the Bonilla factor. But good catch nonetheless.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 30, 2010 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Being that payment starts next year
It still bothers me.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jul 30, 2010 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions
It ain't my money....
And Bonilla can no longer hurt the team. So I don’t care too much, but I get where you’re coming from.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 30, 2010 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, if we don't count Bonilla
Then I’d say Perez is probably worse.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jul 30, 2010 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Probably
What makes it worse is that they use his bad contract as a reason not to go out and sign better options for second.
"I want to win now, not 3 years from now. That's my stance." - Kevin Burkhardt
this
I’d say Ollie’s is worse, except they’re willing to hide Ollie but won’t do th esame for Castillo which makes no sense.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
If by "hide" you mean "continue to send out there so he can keep losing games
for us", I’m right there with you.
Seriously
perhaps the most frustrating thing about the Mets is the way they use their payroll against themselves or not to their advantage. They keep playing guys who make lots of money [Cora, Ollie, Castillo, Frenchy] that are literally hurting the team and ultimately the Mets bottom line instead of understanding the concept of sunk costs. then, they penny pinch in the draft, which also ends up costing them more money in the long run because they spend money on guys like Cora, Ollie, Castillo, Frenchy. They spend money to prevent them from making more money and then they save money to end up spending more because of it. It truly is amazin. I have said it once and will say it again, at least this economic crisis has taught every one that rich guys are really not smarter than every one else like they seemed to want to be portrayed and most people treated them before. The Wilpons are just rich, not smart in any way. I mean, who the hell gives that much money to one hedge fund manager without being allowed to ask any questions?
by Bruce Wayne on Jul 30, 2010 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions
how exactly did they make billions to begin with
I know Jeff was just born into it but Fred was intelligent at one point wasn’t he?
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
That;s the thing
Pretty sure it was real estate and everyone thinks “Wow, this guy must be so smart to make money.” In reality, as Gladwells book Outliers showed, Fred might have been very lucky. The Nets new owner is a great example of this actually. He got hooked up when he made his purchases of metals companies, then was forced to sell against his will right before the assets he sold dropped dramatically in price, and then he was able to buy up all sorts of other assets at much cheaper rates because of it all. He got lucky.
by Bruce Wayne on Jul 30, 2010 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Invent a time machine.
Or get a few million and buy properties now.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 31, 2010 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Perhaps a Hot Tub Time Machine
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jul 31, 2010 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions
A guy I knew in college wrote that...
His roommate—a huge Mets fan, btw—wrote Harold & Kumar.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 31, 2010 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Haha, great writers.
Hot Tub Time Machine was a whole lot funnier than I thought it was going to be.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jul 31, 2010 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Fred thinks he owns the Brooklyn Dodgers.The cavernous Stadium he helped
design will make it impossible to sign offensive power hitters resulting in lower attendance and less money for SNY which is Fred’s real prize.He has stood by and let Omar and Jerry run his business so how intelligent can he be,If I see Sandy Koufax and Fred clowning around together in spring training and have to read about how they played together in High School one more time I will puke.Any Met fan who went to Citi-Field must have thought they were in Dodgertown with all the Dodger tributes throughout the Stadium and Met history was ignored by this man.After the Madoff incident I really have to question his overall smarts.
by Putnan Prince on Jul 31, 2010 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't play Madoff into the equation...He took a lot of smart people.
And Wilpon himself made money off of the deal, or so it is alleged. The other points, and many others that have been expressed here, point to the fact that Wilpon is not the sharpest tool in the shed, at least in terms of managing people. A candle short of a menorah.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 31, 2010 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Seriously, just stop talking.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jul 31, 2010 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions
at least this one didn't say they should "stop being such Jews"
If these are the most vocal people who hate the Wilpons, I think I might have to start liking them.
Woah there...
I’m ambivalent regarding their ancestry, being Jewish myself. And in no way did I mean to intone “stop being such Jews”—more a culturally relevant analog of “not the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree,” which is the first thought I had regarding their acumen in management of the team. I’m also not sure if I agree with the Dodger thing, and I like the Ebbets Field references to a degree, but I think the frustration comes from what we see as mismanagement on the whole.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 31, 2010 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh, he's not referring to you
some brainless idiot said that the other day.
whoa there
I’m not talking about anything you said, don’t worry. I’m talking about this.
Ah ok...
Got me worried there. Just looked at the linked comment. Classy. :P
by MookieTheCat on Jul 31, 2010 1:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Yep, real classy.
anonymous’s comment was pretty funny (and completely accurate), I thought. “I’m pretty sure that the chosen people are at least a large plurality around this blog…”
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jul 31, 2010 1:45 AM EDT up reply actions
If we were chosen...
Why are we Mets fans? Some analog of walking through the desert for 40 years searching for a no-hitter?
by MookieTheCat on Jul 31, 2010 1:50 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Makes sense.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jul 31, 2010 1:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Hey Mookie
stop being so Shticky
by HotChipWillBreakYourLegs on Jul 31, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
I really don't get the Dodger/Citi Field thing
The only reference to the Dodgers in Citi field is the Jackie Robinson Rotunda. Granted, the Rotunda is a large portion of Citi, but it’s just one thing.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Well, it was modeled after Ebbets Field
And the lack of foresight to have any Mets oriented things in the park last year.
Plenty of Mets oriented things last season. Here's a rant I wrote last year:
For those of you who have actually gone to Citi Field, as opposed to those of you who haven’t, but just like to parrot the comments of other people who have been there, for the sake of "sounding good", answer me a question: Where is there “too much” Brooklyn Dodgers, as opposed to “too little” Mets, in Citi Field? I hear this complaint ad nauseum, and having finally gotten to go there myself, and see the new stadium myself, I feel a bit confused.
Maybe I am blind, dumb, deaf, and stupid, but when I was at the stadium, I only saw two television sets, set to loop, in which the Brooklyn Dodgers were featured, mainly focusing on Jackie Robinson, and one banner in the Jackie Robinson Rotunda, in which Jackie Robinson sat in uniform alongside some of his teammates from the Dodgers. Other banners included Jackie Robinson at UCLA, Jackie Robinson out of uniform, and Jackie Robinson in his later years, when he entered into political activism. The plaques on the ground have to do with Jackie Robinson, and his values of teamwork, citizenship, and so on- only one or two mention the Dodgers by name. Can someone please share with me where all of the Brooklyn Dodgers emphasis is? The architecture of the Jackie Robinson Rotunda? It sure is nice to have something that makes the stadium look nice, and unique, as opposed to Shea Stadium, which looked fairly bland, having nothing particular that made it stand out, saving maybe the colors.
Now, let’s look at what Mets memorabilia is there. Going down the stadium’s perimeter down the first and third base sides are various pennant banners, depicting important figures in Mets history: Casey Stengel, Tom Seaver, Jerry Koosman, Doc Gooden, Daryl Strawberry, Mike Piazza, David Wright, Jose Reyes, and innumerable others who I didn’t list, since I didn’t take pictures and record every single player. On the outside wall near the Left Field Gate, there is a massive banner that is, again, a collage of important Mets: Tom Seaver is featured most prominently. In front of the main entrance is the ‘Fan Walk’, which is paved with innumerable bricks with messages from fans, almost all of which are somehow tied to the Mets: "The McDonald family has always believed!" "The Joe and Pat will always remember the ’69 season!" "Let’s go Mets!" I happen to recall seeing a certain large apple in a turned-over top hat lying around. There’s a certain scoreboard over the "Shake Shack" as well.
Now, let’s compare all of this to Shea Stadium. What, specifically, asides for being the home of the Mets, and having memories (something that Citi Field now is, and will generate in the years to come) did Shea Stadium have, that perpetuated the stadium marking it as the home of the Mets? Well, there were those neon guys…Yeah, pretty generic. Well, the outside was nice to look at…Okay, that was pretty generic, too. The inside, then? Well, there were, periodically, banners that were put up on the inside, that depicted scenes from Mets history, like Tom Seaver pitching, or Mookie jumping over that ball, or everyone jumping into each other’s arms, at the end of Game 7 in 1986. There was, of course, the apple, and the scoreboard. But, Citi Field has both of those, however. And, banners? Citi Field has those, too. So, what was there at Shea that made the stadium itself- not the memories that were made there- feel like the Mets’ home? Negating the things that Citi Field has as well- banners, apples, and scoreboards, what are we left with? A bunch of generic neon people?
We already know that more is going to be done with Citi Field. There’s going to be that "Mets Hall of Fame", and apparently, there’s going to be some kind of "Mets Wall of Fame" as well. Seems to me that Citi Field does, and will be doing, more to make itself feel like the Home of the New York Mets than Shea Stadium did. But, what do I know, right? I’m still looking for all of those overt Brooklyn Dodgers homages. You know, the same ones that are blocking view of anything Mets…
That is not to say that there isn’t room for improvement. I think plenty can be done to make the place more reflective of the Mets. I am all in favor of painting the black outfield “space” blue and/or orange, the color of the Mets. I think that would be an excellent idea. I think it would also be a good idea to add the division and league pennants. I noticed that only the 1969 and 1986 championship banners were flying. Like the Braves do, I am in favor of adding images on the outfield wall padding, depicting Mets personalities and scenes, in lieu of either blank space, or paid adds (though, paid adds are certainly good, generating revenue and all). I don’t see the new stadium being a “travesty”, as I’ve heard it described, however. All in all, I think the people who say such things, and truly mean it, are really simply “afraid of change”, as the saying goes. The new stadium isn’t Shea Stadium, and as such, well…It’s not Shea Stadium.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jul 31, 2010 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I was jumping over a ball? Weird, don't remember that.
Sorry, I think this is a correct analysis. One thing I thought was interesting when I read this is the suggestion to color the wall blue and orange, the colors of the Dodgers and Giants, the source from which the Mets clashing colors are derived. I think the new stadium comes close to a travesty in only one way, and that is the dimensioning of the outfield. I think that baseball stadiums should have a semi-elliptical outfield fence with standard dimensions, or at least close to that. Citi Field has all sorts of bizarre angles, which I don’t like, but I understand that this is an outdated aesthetic and maybe I’m to blame.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 31, 2010 1:46 AM EDT up reply actions
I actually don't like symmetrical outfields.
I find them very “blahh”. I can see how some might find Citi Field’s outfield a little over the top, but I really don’t mind it. The only thing I would change would be to lower the wall in LF and down the RF line before the Modells sign.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
What I really don't like is having seats in the outfield
Maybe it’s because I only had Shea, but I really can’t stand seats in “fair territory” past the outfield walls.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jul 31, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
We all knew that
about rich people. I mean, we all know some rich people. The thing they know how to do is make money—there are a few tricks to it, but hard work isn’t necessarily one of them.
but the mets don't need hard work
the problem is the wilpons don’t even seem to know the tricks when it comes to professional sports
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Plus they make awful business decisions over and over regarding the Mets
that to me is the most damning part. If it were baseball mistakes it would be one thing, but if they were really smart astute business people they would not make the mistakes they make. Period.
by Bruce Wayne on Jul 30, 2010 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions
You think on Staten Island a House
In 1968 cost 12000 in 2007 that same house was worth 500000.
So I’d you had any money then tou made a killing without even trying
by Sir Tmac on Jul 31, 2010 12:26 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It's more than that
sometimes people get lucky in life, but everyone always wants to make it seem like they somehow earned something. Sometimes rich people are rich because they got rich, not because they are sort of genius that figured something out that no one else saw or whatever.
Semi related note- believe I saw somewhere tonight that the Wilpons got sued in this whole Madoff fiasco because they got money back. That can’t help, or perhaps they would be better off acting like a small market team.
by Bruce Wayne on Jul 30, 2010 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions
i think what they're being sued for is seperate
it’s investing players retirement money predominately in the madoff scheme, there are still reports they made get sued by people who lost money because they made money off of it which I’m pretty sure is something different.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Correct.
One of the standard fiduciary duties of an investment manager (really by reference to the duties of a trustee) is to diversify investments unless you have a good reason to do otherwise. If you tell investors that you will only be investing in one type of investment, that’s usually ok, but pension and retirement funds are subject to all sorts of laws because of their essential nature both in allowing people to retire and keeping public off the public dole. There is also a duty to do diligence on the investment fund you choose, and my guess is that that’s the crux of the issue here. If you chose to invest your own money with Madoff, that’s your problem. If you chose to invest the money entrusted to you by others, things get a lot more complicated.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 31, 2010 2:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Is it a bad thing that when I read "do diligence"
I immediately thought of The Dark Knight?
Save Jenrry Mejia!
I think the term is...
Throwing good money after bad.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 30, 2010 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly my point.
Same with Gina’s comment about Ollie. Ollie is clearly an error but a busted pitcher is something less of a regular day-to-day clusterfuck than a busted starting 2B batting 2nd.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 30, 2010 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions
No, Vince Coleman was much worse
Imagine all of Castillo’s suckitude, plus being an SOB who blamed everyone in the world for his problems except for himself, and capped it off by blinding a 2-year-old with a firecracker and laughing about it.
"Recent"
Recent. I also agree that Coleman is up there, but I’m talking last 10 years or so. And he was great on the 85 Cardinals, which magnified my personal hatred.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 31, 2010 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions
But we're still paying the price for Coleman, Bonilla, etc.
Because of them, our ownership places much more of a premium on “character guys in teh clubhouzzzzz” over everything else.
Also, this ownership won’t let the GM eat his mistakes. That makes each one stand out in bas relief. During the Steve Phillips era, the team was more about taking on other teams’ crap contracts than offering their own (Tom Glavine notwithstanding), and a lot of those deals did wind up getting eaten, or swapped for other headaches. I get the feeling Duquette wasn’t given license to do that, and Minaya probably isn’t allowed to, either.
You make a good point...
Damn you Bonilla and Coleman! But at the end of the day 20 year old mistakes can’t excuse 2 year old mistakes. I do like the bas relief comment, which was just about the perfect imagery.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 31, 2010 2:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Vince Coleman actually missed a World Series game because in pre-game warmups
his leg got caught when they were testing the electric tarp before the game and he twisted his knee trying to pull his leg out from under the tarp.I would have loved to hear what Hall Of Fame manager Whitey Herzog had to say when he heard what happened
by Putnan Prince on Jul 31, 2010 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions
It wasn't that bad of a deal
$6 mil is like 1.5 wins. Castillo has put up 2.4 WAR in 2008, 2009, and 2010. Then, there were better players available for cheap (Lopez, Johnson) and the Mets didn’t get them. So it’s a bad deal, but $6 mil just isn’t that devastating.
well it was that bad of a deal
when you consider Castillo’s had been declining consistently for like 3-4 seasons, and had a serous knee condition which was common knowledge.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
This
The $-per-win model in a vacuum doesn’t solely determine if a deal is good or not. The signing not made is often a worse mistake than the signing made. Subtract Castillo and the $25 million, add Orlando Hudson, Felipe Lopez, etc. on cheap one year deals and the Mets are a much better team.
by James Kannengieser on Jul 31, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Castillo himself doesn't prevent the Mets from getting those other players
It’s Omar and company. $6 mil a year for the Mets just shouldn’t set them back that much. And Castillo did have one decent season (2009).
I agree!
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jul 31, 2010 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Good link, thanks--but,
the author’s wrong that dumping Ollie will send the right sort of message. That ship sailed a long time ago. If the Wilpons knew the game they’d have—at worst—pitched Perez out of the pen in mopup duty in April, then when it was clear he had nothing, given him an ultimatum about going to the minors to rehab. Instead they let him cost the team half its current deficit in the wild card race, and even brought him back to lose yet another game when it was still perfectly clear Perez had nothing. Dumping Perez now is meaningless. It’s ludicrous not to do it, but it’s so blatantly obvious he’s done that it doesn’t gain the Wilpons any credibility. They’ve already proven beyond doubt that they’ll sacrifice the team for the sake of a few bucks, and DFAing Perez now doesn’t change any of that.
Once again...
A matter of not throwing good money after bad. Point is that the Mets have a culture of accepting failure, and even worse accepting a sense of entitlement from those who fail. Frenchy had the stones to complain when he was put in a platoon position a few weeks back. Ollie had the stones to refuse to go to the minors to brush up when it was clear to everyone he was not MLB quality. Sure, you may have a contract entitlement, but this does not mean that it’s right. This is telling of a culture where there are no repercussions for sucking, and even worse there are none for putting your own interests before those of the team. I think part of the reason that Jerry is so beloved by players (or so they say) is that he doesn’t manage, but instead caters to, and strokes, egos.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 31, 2010 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i agree
snakes suck
I like Ike, I hate Jerry
Indiana Jones
I would compare Reyes to Last Crusade – not the best, but the most fun to watch. Frenchyt’s comparison is spot on – I can picture him swinging through a CGI forest with CGI monkeys
2009 Did Not Happen
by cjmulrain on Jul 31, 2010 12:03 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
CGI Monkeys with 50's style hair.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jul 31, 2010 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Temple of Doom is secretly the best of the three
if you can somehow watch it without looking at or listening to Kate Capshaw
So what’s Ike’s Kate Capshaw?
NICE TRY LAO CHE!
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jul 31, 2010 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Can Kate Play 2B or RF?
Who cares, I would rather play her than Castillo or Francoeur. She would be an improvement.
by George_Sloan on Jul 31, 2010 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Wasn't she married to Spielberg or something?
If my memory is correct she would be the Anna Benson of the series.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 31, 2010 2:17 AM EDT up reply actions
hahah
I think that’s pretty accurate
by HotChipWillBreakYourLegs on Jul 31, 2010 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions
We need to seriously look at the market for a 2B
We can’t carry Castillo any more. No one wants him on the trade front and it’s time to cut bait.
It shouldn’t be that hard/costly to find a suitable replacement who isn’t a total debacle. I say Omar should dial up his old friend Dayton Moore and pull Manhattan’s own Mike Aviles for Francoeur and a C prospect.
He’s cheap, controllable and can hit the ball out of the infield once in a while. If something presents itself in the offseason, this deal will not keep the organization from making a move.
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but Jerry abuses the privilege.
Why, by the way
were people goofing on a Dubs is overrated meme? Did someone say that recently? Fatcessa? Klapisch?
Nothing can get by him; especially in a small room: Mike Francessa
Earlier in the thread, TWilliAM called Wright "one of the most overrated stars in baseball"
because he wasn’t able to field some balls in the top of the 1st (no errors)
Then of course Wright hit a 3 run HR in the bottom of the 1st
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?
I think I can answer this question with the quote...
TRAID DAVID WR0NG.
People were on his case while he was struggling earlier this season. I think we can all agree that if we had two of him, we would have won tonight.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 31, 2010 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions
I was on his case
Learned my lesson, although he did look really REALLY awful for quite awhile.
It may be that success is deceiving, but was he standing closer to the plate. If I were the contest winning announcer, I would have given him a hard time over it, like “Here comes Wright halfway from the on-deck circle to the plate and he stops and sets his stance”.
And he’d a shut me up sumptin’ fierce again.
Nothing can get by him; especially in a small room: Mike Francessa
by GenJackRipper on Jul 31, 2010 2:21 AM EDT up reply actions
I just did some research. Here's a synopsis of my guess as to how Fred Wilpon made his money and got into the Mets.
He started investing in NYC real estate in 1972. In real estate terms this is a rough equivalent of investing in water before a drought. The New York real estate market in the late 80s and 90s went on a rampage that would make most anyone a billionaire if they got in early enough. He also picked up a 1% stake in the Mets at the initial acquisition in 1980, which leads me to believe he was a 1% general partner who would manage the business using capital from the 99% stake owned by Doubleday (really, Doubleday’s company). The way that partnerships are often organized is that the investor—who is supposed to be passive but often is not—take a 99% limited partner share and the general partner takes a 1% share and agrees to manage day to day operations. So he was able to buy in on the cheap—seriously cheap—given that the sales price in 1980 was $22 million. One percent of that is a mere $220,000, which is not a pittance but certainly enough that most moderately wealthy folks in 1980 could have figured out a way to finance it. The early years between Wilpon and Doubleday seemed rather fractious, requiring the creation of a 6-member board to break stalemates between the two. In 1986, in connection of the sale of Doubleday Publishing (the actual owner of the 99% interest in the Mets), Nelson Doubleday and Fred Wilpon bought 50% shares in the Mets for a reported $90 million. It should be noted that about the time that Jeff Wilpon was reportedly drafted by the Expos as a favor to father Fred, Fred was acting as if he was being considered for baseball commissioner, quoting nothing less than the famous LBJ “if nominated I will not run, if elected I will not serve” line.
What struck me more than anything is that if you research you will see that it appears that Fred Wilpon appeared out of think air in 1972, and more generally out of thin air in 1980, except for some crafted statements regarding his friendship with Sandy Koufax and the like. He has a very deft image management thing going on, and appears to appreciate privacy regarding his early business ventures and early life in general. Seriously, if you exclude information on his interaction with Bernard Madoff, Fred Wilpon’s Wikipedia entry is shorter than that of former Mets relief pitcher Julio Machado (chosen for absolute meaninglessness).
Interesting
Almost like a spy or witness protection
by Sir Tmac on Jul 31, 2010 12:34 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I can understand why he did it...
I mean, think about him as a public figure. Some Mets fans are kinda crazy, too. Steinbrenner had to be more open about his fortune because a lot of it was US government contracts for military ships and therefore public record (and it’ a bit tough to hide a shipyard in any event). I’m sure if you went through a fee-based business research service you could find out a lot, if by nothing more than searching public real estate records. I’m just too poor and lazy to do so.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 31, 2010 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, there wouldn't be much online because there's just not that much historical stuff online at all
And until he started getting into battles with Doubleday, who would have cared anything about him? Just a guy managing real estate. There’s probably quite a lot in old sports pages from the Doubleday years, though, and maybe scattered bits on the business pages.
It's amazing what a Dun & Bradstreet report will tell you...
Did my due diligence for years. Found out a lot about what is kept on record for those willing to pay for it.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 31, 2010 2:20 AM EDT up reply actions
thats why I kind of hope they get legit sued
so they have to make their books open, I’m really curious after seeing the craziness the Dodgers owners were doing.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
he's the antichrist
only explanation.
also wtf are the expos connections never ending? it’s like a big circle of doom.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Expos.
The Oliver Perez or Luis Castillo of expansion teams.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 31, 2010 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Just DFA them already
I can’t believe we are wasting time trying to trade Perez, Castillo or Francoeur. Nobody would be stupid enough to take any of them, well except for the Mets. All 3 of them will probably be out of baseball next year anyway. Just have some balls for once and DFA them. Bring up some of the young guys and see what they got. I don’t think the young guys could do any worse than those 3 slugs.
No No
we need to keep them on the roster so there’s “hope for 2011!” sarcasm
seriously, what’s wrong with the Mets? EVERYTHING.
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
by feslenraster on Jul 31, 2010 8:03 AM EDT up reply actions
I hate this organization
I’m not even mad at Castillo and Francoeur. It’s not their fault they suck.
I’m mad at the morons who saw fit to give them 4-year deals and hand them starting outfield spots. I’m mad at the buffoon in the dugout who bats them second and keeps running them out there every day. I’m mad at the simpletons in the middle who can’t ask a basic question like “Francoeur and Castillo are absolutely killing this team. Why do you continue to play them and why do you bat Castillo second so he can kill any rally Reyes, Pagan, Wright and Beltran might otherwise put togeter?”
That’s my stance.
I'm glad you expressed this now, not 3 years from now. That's my stance.
Because we all agree.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 31, 2010 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Remember when we have like a 14-game winning streak against the Diamondbacks?
Those were the good ol’ days…
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jul 31, 2010 12:40 AM EDT reply actions
just to add to the depression
we should all think about the fact that while we’re running out replacement/sub replacement scrubs on the regular basis by choice, the Yankees are acquiring above average players they don’t even need at literally no cost. Like Berkman and apparently soon Kearns.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
A friend of mine...
An Astros fan, was sad earlier about Berkman. Not that it matters but yeah…
by MookieTheCat on Jul 31, 2010 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I think he'll be back on the Stros
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jul 31, 2010 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Kearns is official.
Just not sure if it’s a scrub or cash.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jul 31, 2010 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Kearns is official according to Indians officials
for PTBNL and picking up the 250K owed to him. Yeah, if we understood sunk costs we could have mediocre options at RF and 2B that cost near league minimum.
And Kearns is Better Than Francoeur
so that tells you what we could expect to get for Francoeur if we find someone stupid or desperate enough to take him.
by George_Sloan on Jul 31, 2010 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions
thats kind of my issues
Kearns is actually much better than francoeur, and yet instead of acquiring a player like him, for like 1/20th of frenchy’s salary, we’re running frenchy out there. While the yankees are picking up guys they don’t even need.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
The Mets have no graduates of the Department of Redundancy Department.
And thus they don’t pick up players that they may not need tomorrow just because they are decent and may be needed later. The whole obsession with filling holes means that they don’t just pick up good players to use as necessary. Instead they approach the question from the standpoint of “we need a right fielder” even if the market for that position is slim. They pick up crappy players to fill a need. Someone said this a lot better than I did today but I frankly can’t remember who. Please help me out.
Remember the lack of roster moves this offseason? I haven’t seen it mentioned recently. Kinda seems like a major omission now, huh?
by MookieTheCat on Jul 31, 2010 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions
I am With You
Difference is that the Yankees are serious about winning. The Mets are just incompetent losers, and yes that hurts me to say that Gina.
Good teams are always looking to improve themselves, and that includes reserves. And while they do that the Mets just watch. I really don’t care if they decided to trade players for prospects, but do something because this team sucks. I realize there is no market for players like Perez, Castillo and Francoeur, so just cut them already and get better players or bring up some young guys. How long to you have to watch these guys to realize they can’t play.
by George_Sloan on Jul 31, 2010 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Yup. I just looked him onBBRef.
Kearns’s line for 2010 is .268/.351/.413/.764 (his career line is very similar). That’s a lot better than Francouer’s career line. And, of course, for the Yankees he’s a spare part. So is Berkman a spare part, who is available for next to nothing, and his career OPS is around 200 points higher than Ike Davis’s. And it looks like Lilly is available for little. Add in a decent 2bman and you have everything the Mets need for a real stretch drive, with a payroll not to far from last year’s payroll.
Lilly's apparently avaliable to them, too.
Just in case they need, you know, a sixth starter for the stretch.
Florida Just Tied Us For Third Place
My nightmare continues
Okay, seriously...wtf do the Yanks need Ryan Theriot for?
Or even Lilly? I guess Petite is on the DL for a bit so it makes some sense.
i hate them
they’re going to have johnson, theriot and kearns on their bench.
we’re going to have frenchy, and cora/castllo in our every day line up.
le sigh
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
If by Johnson you mean Nick Johnson
I’m pretty sure he’s not coming back this year.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jul 31, 2010 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions
It's like all the stars aligned for a Cashman shopping spree.
Cashman “What? You’ll pay most of his contract too?”
Cashman “Well, we can give you…. Val Pascutti? I think we have him”
Do you think it's easier for AL teams...
to sign players who might not have a perfect positional match because of the DH? I mean, you have your starting DH, but any batter can sub in now and then for him without having any particular position. Not trying to justify Omar’s incredibly lackluster trade performance this year, but just thinking about ti semi-objectively.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 31, 2010 1:08 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't think so.
I think it just gives you a free pass to sign 1 guy who is an absolute mess in the field no matter where you put him. After that you still run into the same problems as an NL team.
The ChiSox tried this approach this year of signing too many position players and rotating them in and out of DH. They’ve been desperate for a full time DH since June.
Yeah I hear ya...
I was wondering. I think you answered my question.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 31, 2010 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions
agreed
Don’t forget, the Mets aren’t interested in adding a real pitcher in Oswalt, Lee, or Haren….instead they are talking about PAUL MALHOLM, Jake Westbrook…whooopeee!
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
by feslenraster on Jul 31, 2010 8:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Weren't you saying earlier that there's no way the Mets should be buying anything at this point?
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?
how many failures will it take for jerry to realize
bringing in a guy after warming him up 4+ times is an awful idea. we need a jerrybot software upgrade, again
I like Ike, I hate Jerry
by astromets on Jul 31, 2010 1:07 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
That does not fem-pute!
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jul 31, 2010 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
As many as it takes to get him fired
Stupidity never takes a vacation
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but Jerry abuses the privilege.
This is exactly right...
He keeps doing what he does because there are no repercussions. “We will have a closed door meeting!” (as if there is any other type of meeting) doesn’t seem to cut it, and repeatedly he is supported while failing. Basically, he has the perfect job.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 31, 2010 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions
LOL with Heilman for the save
Just noticed that. I guess we all knew it was coming…
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jul 31, 2010 1:29 AM EDT reply actions
The upside is Duda went 2-4, double and triple
Brooklyn aka 27 Yanks tore it up too. Vaughn with another 2-4, HR and Cecil 2-4 triple
Mo Vaughn and Cecil Fielder?
Sounds to me like the Fat Guy All-Stars. Good thing they’re close to Nathans. :P
by MookieTheCat on Jul 31, 2010 2:02 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
he plays 1B
no DH in the NL…………..figures. It’s the mets.
yeah why exactly do we seem to always have an abundance of no position players
does Omar not know we’re in the NL?
basically our system seems to come down to all bat, or all glove.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
@James...
Should you watch the video, I only have one thing to impart. Look for clues to the identity of the man with the Andy Warhol hair who shows up 3 times!
when you say "1986 season in review" video...
,,,do you mean “1986 Mets: A Year to Remember”?
Greatest season in review video ever. The Dykstra/Backman “Wild Boys” bit, the “Hot Foot” How To segment, it’s all fantastic.
That's the one
I’ll update it to reflect the accurate title. Fantastic soundtrack.
by James Kannengieser on Jul 31, 2010 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Yep, that's the one...
The Hot Foot segment kinda tells you something about HoJo, no? McDowell is all technical and persnickety and HoJo just grabs a clump of gum and sticks it on. Makes me wonder about hacking away at first pitches, at least vis a vis patience and process.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 31, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
According to Heyman, Mets turned down Parnell and Thole for Brett Myers
and that they offered Ollie Perez and Luis Castillo to Cubs for Zambrano, but Cubs didn’t want Castillo
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?
wtf
I think I’d rather be stuck with Perez and Castillo for another year. Zambrano actually manages to have a worse contract.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
If they pay half of his salary I might do it
"we believe in comebacks"
Jerry being Jerry
by Jadden Hopkins on Jul 31, 2010 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
I would trade Castillo and Perez for a Zamboni...
by MookieTheCat on Jul 31, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Not a Zambranoni, though?
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jul 31, 2010 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it goes more like this
David Wright = As I Was Moving Ahead Occasionally I Saw Brief Glimpses of Beauty
Ike Davis = Sombre
Angel Pagan = Sans Soleil
Jeff Francoeur = The Room
by secret defense on Jul 31, 2010 10:16 AM EDT reply actions
or
David Wright=The Dark Knight
Ike Davis=Batman Forever
Angel Pagan=Batman Begins
Jeff Francoeur=Batman and Robin
"we believe in comebacks"
Jerry being Jerry
by Jadden Hopkins on Jul 31, 2010 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
WHAT A FREAKIN' LASER SHOW THAT WAS, JEFF!!! YOU ROCK MAN!!
(can someone please shoot this clown? Thanks.)
Reyes
clearly cost the mets last night… His error came at a crucial time on a slow ground ball hit by the pitcher… I think it’s obvious that Reyes can’t keep his head in the game as Darling and Keith pointed out, when he’s on base this season he hasn’t looked as though he was going to steal until he actually was going to make the attempt… Reyes while highly talented usually doesn’t do the little things right…
Maybe you can pin one of those runs on Jose...
But 5 runs with 2 outs? That’s a hard causation argument to make. Too much went wrong afterwards that the 4-out inning, while a factor, was certainly not the sole factor.
by MookieTheCat on Jul 31, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions

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