Things I Was Wrong About
Accountability posts like this are rare, here or anywhere else. It's obvious why -- harping on how one was "right" is more enjoyable than pointing out the "wrong". A quick example, on this August 11, 2010, the day Francoeur Avenue became the Francoeur Internets. Dozens of writers fell over themselves hyping up Jeff Francoeur in the offseason as the next New York star. There was even some crazy talk from various outlets suggesting a preseason contract extension was a good idea. The voices then went silent as Frenchy spent the first two-thirds of the season performing at replacement level. Yet there is hardly a mea culpa type post/column to be found.
There is no shame admitting that analysis turned out wrong. It is an essential step in evaluating the process utilized in that analysis. If a writer is "wrong" more often than not, the natural question is "why"? Is it just a bad break, per the process vs. results matrix? Or does the process require greater scrutiny and potentially some tweaking?
To that end, this is the first of an occasional series, outlining things I was wrong about.
1. December 7, 2008 -- Don't Get Cheap On Me Jeff Wilpon
I see no reason why the Mets shouldn't be able to offer the following:
- 4 years, $60 million to Derek Lowe
- 2 years, $20 million to Brian Fuentes
- 2 years, $24 million to Adam Dunn
This goes back almost two years and one blog ago (my original craptacular offering, MetsTailgate.com). Taking these one by one:
Derek Lowe
The sinkerballer was terrific for the Dodgers from 2005-2008, posting a 3.59 ERA in 850.1 innings. Even with the expectation that he wouldn't replicate his stellar 3.26 FIP 2008 season, his combination of durability and good control seemed like a good bet for a team lacking reliable starting pitching. And it would probably would have meant cutting ties with Oliver Perez, the 2008 league leader in walks. After the Braves signed Lowe for exactly the terms I suggested, his strikeout and walk rates both worsened, and even his off-the-charts groundball rate decreased a few percentage points. He has been slightly above average overall, but will probably end up being worth about half of the $60 million the Braves will shell out.
A takeaway here might be an increased weariness of older pitchers. Especially handing out big money, multi-year deals to hurlers in their 30's. Lowe's lack of injury history made up for his advancing age in my view (he's 37 years-old now). He's not an altogether useless pitcher, and certainly more palatable than Ollie. Regardless, the Mets dodged a rubber bullet by passing on Lowe.
Brian Fuentes
After 2008, the Mets appeared determined to sign a big name closer. The three names most commonly thrown around were Francisco Rodriguez, Kerry Wood and Fuentes. Rumors abounded of a five year, $75 million contract for Frankie -- yikes. Wood's questionable health gave me pause. Fuentes was a cheaper, if older, option to fortify the back end of the bullpen. He signed with the Angels for two years, $17.5 million, with a third year option which has no chance of vesting. Despite racking up 47 saves in 2009 and converting 86% of save opportunities the last two seasons, Fuentes has disappointed. His strikeout rate decreased and he has been an even more extreme than usual flyball pitcher (56.3% flyball rate in 2010). Home runs have been his nemesis.
Like Lowe, the concern with signing older pitchers is on display. His velocity is down two mph from 2008. The volatility of relief pitching is also demonstrated. While his contract is preferable to Frankie's (much like Lowe vs. Perez), Fuentes would not have been a difference maker for this Mets team. He's been worse than Pedro Feliciano, with a similar platoon split and at four times the cost.
Adam Dunn
Donkey signed for two years, $20 million. Theoretically the Mets could have had him for my suggested offer. He would have played most of 2009 at first base and probably 2010 too. Taking his absurd -37 UZR last season with a large grain of salt (it's -0.6 this season), Dunn has been worth more than his contract. He's currently third in the league in OPS and finished tenth last year. Plus, 450 foot homers are worth some more money in my book. No mistake here.
2. September 1, 2009 -- Milton Bradley: Yes Or No?
...it's a safe bet that Bradley could be had in a trade.
It's time for the Mets to stop fielding garbage at the corner OF positions. Bradley is no Matt Holliday but he would be a significant upgrade over the current organizational options for 2010.
Bottom line: I would rather see Bradley in the Mets outfield next year than some kind of Jeremy Reed/Cory Sullivan/Chris Carter jumble.
Milton led the American League in OPS in 2008, so swapping one of the Mets' disaster contracts for him seemed like a strong gamble. Cross your fingers that he doesn't disrupt the clubhouse and count on that ~.800 OPS projected by the forecasting systems. Half of that plan worked. Outside of a minor early season issue, Milton has been a good soldier off the field for the M's. Unfortunately, he's been calamitous between the lines. His slash line is .205/.292/.348, worse than Francoeur's. Not even the biggest Milton haters could have predicted such a drastic slide. Suffices to say, Milton in the 2010 Mets outfield would have been disastrous.
3. December 9, 2009 -- Cross Rich Harden Off The Wish List
Rich Harden apparently signed with the Rangers today for one year and $7.5 million, with a 2011 club option for $11.5 million. It's a good deal for the Rangers. He was on many Met fans' wish lists, with good reason. Youth, filthy stuff and an astronomical strikeout rate (K/9 of 10.91 in 2009, 9.35 for his career) are some of Harden's positive attributes. The strikeouts would have been particularly welcome on a Mets team which played awful defense in 2009.
The Mets failed to upgrade their rotation this past offseason, passing on some attractive options like Harden and Joel Pineiro on the open market. For a pitcher like Harden, who posted xFIPs of 3.55 and 3.70 in 2008 and 2009, respectively, $7.5 million was a steal. Except his biggest concern, injury, contributed to a nightmare 5.45 ERA, sub-replacement level 2010 season. His velocity is down from 2009 and his peripherals are all significantly worse than his career rates. After a DL stint with a pulled glute, he recently returned but continued to stink up the joint. He lasted just 2.1 innings in his last start, walking five. His role going forward is unclear. Ben Sheets also turned out to be a poor investment for the A's. Same goes for Erik Bedard with the M's. Omar Minaya was wise to avoid these three talented but injury prone pitchers.
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HA!
My “things I was wrong about” post would be MUCH longer.

Mine:
- Wanted Lowe also, for about what the Braves paid.
- Thought Ollie was a good consolation prize, but at $18/3y
- Had Alex Cora on my AAOP team for $2m. Oops.
- Called the Milledge for Church/Schneider trade a mistake of Kazmir proportions
- Basically blew a gasket when the Mets failed to get Kelly Shoppach for free. In my defense, I was convinced the Mets would end up with Molina for a billion dollars a year for a billion years.
- Wanted to trade for David DeJesus and Jose Guillen, in a salary acquisition deal, instead of signing Jason Bay for the same 2010 money. Oh, wait.
eh as far as Lowe
He was worth 2.7 WAR last year and will likely end up around that this year, which if you use the WAR per $$ amount is only about 2 million less value than what he’s being paid…compared to Ollie who’s about 20 million less value that what he’s being paid. I guess Ollie comes off the books faster but at least Lowe would have taken the ball and been about average for 2-3 years for 200 innings a year maybe even his 4th.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
I'm proud to say that I never wanted Ollie.
Of course, I also wanted Sheets…heh.
John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.
+1
i believe i offered pelfrey straight up for maine in the AA fantasy league before the season started
by Rob Castellano on Aug 11, 2010 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
there reason i never write these kinds of fanshots
is because i never make mistakes. i thought i did once, but I was wrong.
HELLO HELLO MR WILPON... BUY THAT MANSION. WE DONT NEED A CONDO.
by kendynamo on Aug 11, 2010 1:22 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
...except for the mistake in the subject of this comment?
The one and only mistermet on teh Interwebz!
by Steve Schreiber on Aug 11, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
no, there are no exceptions regarding my infallibility
though once i did happen to recommend a negative value proposition, but that was just a conflation of erroneous data predicated on a faulty hypothesis. so no harm no foul.
HELLO HELLO MR WILPON... BUY THAT MANSION. WE DONT NEED A CONDO.
I think correct response to his comment is
“I see what you did there”
by James Kannengieser on Aug 11, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Mine
Wanted Lowe over Ollie…hmm, still do
I liked Fuentes and thought he would be at least as good as k-Rod.
I though we should have given Steve Tracshel one more year…is he still around?
I thought keeping the Simpsons on TV was a good idea
I liked the idea of Jerry Manuel as manager more than Wille Randolph…ugh, a no win situation right there.
I wanted Matt Holiday even if it meant giving him 7 years. i still don’t think Bay will be any good here.
I miss Lastings
by ScottfromPeekskill on Aug 11, 2010 1:41 PM EDT reply actions
I was wrong about Blastings! too but at least he is better than Francoeur.
Even with his failure to this date the Mets still lost that deal.
by JohnPeterson on Aug 12, 2010 1:31 AM EDT up reply actions
well, with the harden/sheets/bedard stuff
i’m pretty sure we’re all aware that these were high-risk/high-reward signings, so their lack of success should not come as a surprise or anything.
"Or does the process require greater scrutiny and potentially some tweaking?"
After all the 2010 disaster and #6org jokes, LL was discussing the same thing the other day, after Morrow threw that almost no-no. We should take this opportunity to review some thought process.
One of the things many fans (here and elsewhere) were talking during the offseason was “if player X is healthy”. We as fans don’t have any way to asses that kind of info. After any other team signed those high risk, high upside bets, we would complain why we didn’t take that chance either. In the end, none of these bets paid off. The danger of upside. We signed Kelvim Escobar, we all thought it was a good process move, but it also didn’t pay off. Or hoping Maine would be healthy, and he would perform like the projection systems forecasted.
About reclamation projects like Milton Bradley. We can’t count on those to perform. If they turn out to be productive, great. Though we shouldn’t really count on that. Those should be in AAA, not the starting lineup or opening day roster.
In lobby campaign for Chris Carter.
I wouldn't go that far
I agree that “We can’t count on those to perform.” But I don’t agree that that means that you can’t have players like that on the opening day roster. What it means to me is that if you sign a high risk/reward player, then you need to have viable fill-ins who can provide decent production in their absence. E.g. Escobar never played a game – fine, no big loss; Parnell is at least an adequate replacement. Conversely, when Omar brought in, say, Moises Alou and Cliff Floyd – players with great upside who are very injury-prone – it was foolish of him not to have adequate fill-ins. What you can’t do is roll the dice on upside, but not have at least a replacement level-or-better backup plan.
by dontstopbelieving on Aug 11, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm talking about reclamation projects.
Fine, you can still have them on the opening day roster, but you can’t count on their production and you have to be aware of the opportunity cost.
The reason I said that was if he doesn’t produce, you are actually wasting a roster spot with a player you knew he had a high risk of failure (reclamation).
In lobby campaign for Chris Carter.
Proud to say I was always leery of Lowe
His comparables list on B-R and BP were both too troubling to ignore I thought. However, I was definitely willing to go for a spin around the block in the Frenchy bandwagon, for which I am now ashamed.
My biggest regret though was all the noise I made about how strong I thought St. Lucie’s pitching staff would be this year. I wrote like 2500 words on Kyle Allen, Jeurys Familia, and Robert Carson for the AA Annual pimping them all as huge breakout candidates and they’ve all fallen well short of my lofty expectations.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Aug 11, 2010 1:58 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Carson hasn't been bad, and he was the one people were discounting compared to the other two.
John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.
Yeah but I'm still disappointed
He was good not great in St. Lucie, and as he’s gone up the chain he’s gone from a dominant ground ball/command guy last year to a slightly ground ball heavy and average command guy in St. Lucie, to basically ground ball neutral with below average command in Bingo. Hopefully he can start killing more worms and issuing less free passes again in his second go around at Double-A, but I was expecting better than a 3.97 FIP in St. Lucie, especially if his HR/FB was going to be just 5.7%. He has been the closest to my expectation, but I still don’t love his season.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Aug 11, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Looking at my AAOP...
http://www.amazinavenue.com/2009/11/14/1156415/aaop-or-how-i-learned-to-stop
I definitely had some bad preferences. Davis was ready sooner than I imagined, so Overbay was unnecessary.
I wanted to sign one of Sheets/Harden/Bedard, which would have been disastrous, most likely.
Kiko Calero…oy.
Beimel wouldn’t have been that big of an upgrade.
Of course, I nailed Pagan, Holliday, Pavano, Holliday, and Hudson…
John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.
Well, I was talking about Doc Holliday, also in my post.
Those Wild West characters, I tell ya.
John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.
i would take lowe and his contract over ollie any day of the week
one has value, the other doesn’t…who cares if we’re over paying. We’re a big market team. That’s what big markets do.
true
Ollie has NO trade value. Kind of like Francoeur. Francoeur’s trade value is that he would be gone.
I was wrong about
Ben Sheets :) I wanted him as a Met.
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
yeah out for the season
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
by feslenraster on Aug 11, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I was wrong about...
John Lackey- I thought he would a solid #2 behind Johan. I didn’t see him regressing this much.
Nick Johnson- I didn’t see Ike being ready, and I didn’t like Daniel Murphy. Of course, him being injured is something I should have seen coming a mile away.
Calero- I didn’t think he was hurt
I….liked the Ambiorix Burgos trade, and continued to defend the trade until his first incident.
I wanted Barry Zito and I flipped out when we didn’t sign him.
I am proud to say I wanted absolutely none of Harden/Sheets/Bedard
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?
Good thing we didn't get Bradley...look at that picture
Just imagine Jerry trying to bunt with him! He’d never get the all important sacrifice down!
The one and only mistermet on teh Interwebz!
by Steve Schreiber on Aug 11, 2010 2:40 PM EDT reply actions
what would Omar Minaya's "I was wrong list" look like? hah!
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
sorry
isn’t this all results-based logic type stuff?
I mean sure, these things might not have worked out, but not everything does. as long as the reasoning behind wanting to make certain moves was solid at the time they were proposed, i would accept no fault! :)
You might think the process is sound, but you are consistently making mistakes, you have to consider if it's not just "bad luck".
It might be that the process actually had flaws, so you might want to review that. This is not about result-based-only analysis. It should be an effort to improve the process.
In lobby campaign for Chris Carter.
Exactly
This post was partially inspired by this re-done process vs. results matrix an Internet saber-dude made recently:

It’s certainly over-the-top but has a worthwhile message, I think.
by James Kannengieser on Aug 11, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I appreciate the answers guys, thanks
and like an idiot, i followed the jump link on the article b4 reading the full first part and missed the paragraph where you talked about exactly what i asked. I can add my initial comment to the list of things i frakked up ;)
hehehe
You don't cheer for the Mets. You drink for the Mets.
Boy, Was I Wrong....
…. about the Mets losing 90+ games, with Manuel & Minaya being fired mid-season. The Mets are a better team this year that I thought they would be. I’m sorry, New York Mets, for not guessing you would be a .500 team.
I stand corrected.
"We praise or blame as one or the other affords more opportunity for exhibiting our power of judgment." Friedrich Nietzsche, "Human,All Too Human" (1878)
what i was wrong about:
falling in love with baseball and the mets
I like Ike, I hate Jerry
Things i was wrong about
I wanted to sign Dunn, thought his power bat would be great in the line-up
Wanted to sign Lackey. Thought him and Johan would be a great 1-2
Wanted to Sign Rich Harden.Thought he would be healthy
"we believe in comebacks"
Jerry being Jerry
I think I win...
At a spring training game in Port St. Lucie a mere 5 months ago, after the first go-round of the Mets lineup I turned to pop and said “that Cattalanotto guy is going to be a star for us.” Not sure whether it was the beer, the hot sun, whatever. I’m still at a loss.
And now that comment is preserved in written form.
I wonder to what extent leaving the thin air in Colorado actually decreases average FB velocity
I’d wager at least some of the loss of velocity Fuentes suffered is due to that.
Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...
by Stephen Schmidt on Aug 11, 2010 7:51 PM EDT reply actions
The big caveat
is that these players might have performed very differently in different situations, of course (such as in a Met uniform as opposed to whatever they’re in now)…
but then again they probably would have been worse with us.
Lowe was worth $12m last year, acc to Fangraphs,
w a similar performance this year. His numbers are trending towards Ack!, but he hasn’t been anything close to a disaster to date.
wrt AAOPs,
it looks like the people who went with a couple of reliable starters—keeping Maine and Perez the hell away from the rotation—probably made out the best, particularly if they added a 2bman, a solid 4th OFer (not Francouer) and some catching help (or trusted Thole and someone other than Santos to get it done).
Do y’all do an end of the year revisting of the AAOPs?
basically anyone who exhibited common sense
something our front office isn’t capable of
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
My problem for next year will be figuring out how to spend
the $700k the Wilpons will budget for offseason acquisitions.
I had a plan
and my plan, i liked my plan. Actually mine didn’t work out very well at all. I’ll do better next year when our expectations are lower
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 12, 2010 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions

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