Question for Mets fans

by Matt Swartz on Aug 13, 2010 9:44 PM EDT

My name is Matt Swartz, and I’m an author at Baseball Prospectus. I’m doing some research on the infield shift (where three infielders play on the right side of second base for a left-handed hitter), and the data is a bit hard to come by. Since I know what a great resource the SBNation blogs are, being a former writer at one myself, I thought that some of you could give me some help.

I am curious who has gotten shifted against on your team MOST of the time, AND who your team regularly has shifted against in your division over the last 18 years. To jog your memory I am listing the lefties and switch-hitters that your team has had in the last 18 years that have hit at least 20 home runs.

Thank you for your help.

LHB

Carlos Delgado
Cliff Floyd
Mo Vaughn
Robin Ventura
John Olerud
Brian McRae
Rico Brogna

SHB

Carlos Beltran
Todd Hundley
Bobby Bonilla
Eddie Murray

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I can tell you there's no way Olerud was shifted against

He had amazing bat control.
But Delgado was shifted against quite often and Ike Davis was by Colorado this week (although, iirc they are the only ones who have done that against Ike).

Save Jenrry Mejia!

by Ogre39666 on Aug 13, 2010 9:51 PM EDT reply actions

Delgado was shifted against very often.

Beltran not at all I believe.

I bet Jerry Manuel just bunted.

by GilbertP on Aug 13, 2010 10:00 PM EDT reply actions

Don't they usually shift against Howard?

"The one thing you don't want to do is hit a home run. That's a rally-killer." -Jeff Francoeur

by RangersandMets on Aug 13, 2010 10:04 PM EDT reply actions

If I remember correctly

I think they were also shifting Utley earlier this year and maybe at the end of last year, but I don’t really remember them doing that much before that.

"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet

What a fool I was to defy him"

-HST

by Mark Himmelstein on Aug 13, 2010 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions

Howard is shifted against all of the time, delgado as well.

i believe mo vaughn was too

And... It's outta here!!!

by SuperSantana on Aug 13, 2010 10:05 PM EDT reply actions

Delgado all the time...

To the point where I remember yelling at the TV: “teach him to bunt to third…It’s an instant hit!” I honeslty can’t remember any of the others hitting against a strong shift. Maybe a tweak here or there, but nothing we would know about the shift…

Good question. The Swartz is strong in this one.

by MookieTheCat on Aug 13, 2010 10:16 PM EDT reply actions

+1

delgado was by far the most shifted against. the only other one i can remember was floyd, albeit to a lesser extent.

as for non-mets, howard gets it the worst by far.

by Rob Castellano on Aug 13, 2010 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions

Here's something I've wondered about...

Why didn’t they tell him to bunt to 3rd? Granted, not against anybody, but against soft-tossing guys in big situations. This would have the dual effect of both getting some cheap hits and causing other teams to think twice before putting on the shift.

This really confused me for a long time. Any thoughts AA folks?

by MookieTheCat on Aug 13, 2010 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions

Look at who was managing.

Save Jenrry Mejia!

by Ogre39666 on Aug 13, 2010 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah...

That’s what I suspected. This typically happened before I was so disenfranchised that I looked to mismanagement before any other option….

by MookieTheCat on Aug 13, 2010 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions

Also,

say he does lay down a bunt, and gets a hit, and gets on base that way. People will be screaming that the clean-up hitter laid down a bunt, when he could have theoretically jacked one over the right-field wall.

Didn’t that create some kind of “mini/WFAN-controversy” either this year or last, when Beltran bunted while in the clean-up spot?

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Aug 14, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions

I think if there's no third baseman...

That argument gets pretty hard to defend, but I see your point.

by MookieTheCat on Aug 14, 2010 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions

I'm all for laying down the bunt hit while the 3rd baseman is vacated from his position.

An actual hit > A theoretical home run

That’s my stance.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Aug 14, 2010 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions

Especially when Delgado was having all his problems towards the end...

That’s when I started screaming. Especially when you consider that a hard hit bunt has a good chance for a double is the LF is playing deep. The theoretical home run was a matter for CERN at that time.

by MookieTheCat on Aug 15, 2010 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions

I'm having trouble remembering:

Did the outfielders shift over some too? I think they did, but…

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Aug 15, 2010 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions

Yeah, I think so as well...

LF typically was in left-center.

by MookieTheCat on Aug 15, 2010 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions

I remember

Beltran got a lot of heat in 2005 when he would occasionally bunt.

Is the sun going to come up tomorrow?

by Brian. on Aug 14, 2010 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions

they were not giving beltran a hit everytime

and the main point of dropping down the bunt now and then would have been to prevent them from putting on the shift.

If they knew he would take advantage once in a while, they would have played him normal… thus opening up the right side for him.

I am a fan of both the mets and knicks... so just kill me now.

by gbaked on Aug 15, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions

We're talking about Delgado

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Aug 15, 2010 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions

you said

Didn’t that create some kind of "mini/WFAN-controversy" either this year or last, when Beltran bunted while in the clean-up spot?

and i was pointing out that then, they were not giving Beltran a hit everytime. So when he bunted out of the 4 spot it made less sense.

I also threw in that the point of it wasnt really to get a hit, while that would have been a nice bonus, the real point of delgado dropping down a bunt now and then is to get them away from playing the shift, so he would be free to pull the ball into a normal field.

I am a fan of both the mets and knicks... so just kill me now.

by gbaked on Aug 16, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions

I used to yell that, too.

I don’t remember anyone else up there getting a strong shift, though.

May you be locked in a battle of wits against Jerry Manuel.

by BobbyV_Incognito on Aug 13, 2010 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions

Delgado

Floyd a bit. Ike last week.
We shift a lot against Howard

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Aug 13, 2010 10:44 PM EDT reply actions

Like everyone else, we also shifted against Bonds

and I seem to recall that they did it against Adam Dunn in the past as well.

Save Jenrry Mejia!

by Ogre39666 on Aug 13, 2010 10:56 PM EDT reply actions

Delgado ALL THE TIME

Ike Davis has started getting it recently (since the san diego games)

by garik16 on Aug 14, 2010 2:01 AM EDT reply actions

Delgado

was always shifted against. It was common to put the shift on against Floyd, too.

Ventura, Olerud, Brogna, McRae, Beltran, Bonilla absolutely not.

I really don’t recall Murray’s days well enough to say whether they ever shifted against him. I don’t remember anyone putting the shift on against Hundley, but you’d think he’d have been a prime candidate.

by Alex Nelson on Aug 14, 2010 12:29 PM EDT reply actions

I remember Murray...

But I don’t remember the shift very much, if at all. I used to go to Shea a lot back then and so I probably would have noticed. I think he had declined so far from his star days with the O’s that no one really feared him, at least towards the tail end of his time with the Mets.

by MookieTheCat on Aug 14, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions

Maybe

While Murray was a better power hitter from the left side, I don’t think he was ever enough of a pull hitter to warrant a consistent shift anyway.

by Alex Nelson on Aug 14, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions

Don't remember anyone shifting against Murray

What's the score, boys?
What did Bugs Bunny do?
What's with the Carrot League baseball today?

by StorkFan on Aug 15, 2010 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions

Delgado

One day, this team is going to kill me.

by fxcarden on Aug 14, 2010 1:39 PM EDT reply actions

Delgado is the only name that pops out in my head.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Aug 14, 2010 2:15 PM EDT reply actions

Delgado

is the only one that pops in my mind

"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"

by feslenraster on Aug 14, 2010 3:58 PM EDT reply actions

Two things, Matt.

1) As far as recent memory goes, the opposition always shifted against Delgado. So Delgado it is.

2) Now that we’re on the topic, I wonder if there was any batter in history (i.e. ’80s, ’70s, even ’60s and way before) that has been shifted against the most. That would make an interesting article, if it can be done.

Continued success and good luck on this!

2010: Year of the Grission...Or Not!

In My World, There Is No Such Thing As Off-Topic!

by R_Adragna on Aug 14, 2010 5:54 PM EDT reply actions