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How Excited Should We Be About Lucas Duda?

Lucas Duda (via paul.hadsall)

We've seen Fernando Martinez tickle our upside bones by slugging .540 as a 20-year-old in Triple-A, but his recent stylings have left something to be desired, and he's no longer showing enough plate discipline to really be considered as strong of an option as he was before. His combined 2010 walk rate is 5.9% and strikeout rate is 24.8%, or a one-to-four BB/K ratio that puts him on par with Carlos Gomez in Milwaukee. Not good. Call it the perils of giving him too much credit to a player for being young, but Martinez needs to do some work to recover his former glory.

But this post is about Lucas Duda, who is currently tearing up Triple-A Buffalo to the tune of .330/.402/.661. Has he passed Fernando on the prospect list? Should he be the next call-up when the team finally realizes that Jeff Francoeur is almost an automatic out these days?

Star-divide

One of the reasons Lucas Duda has surprised most prospect hounds is that he was such a bland player in school. At USC, Duda only started two of his three years and only hit 11 home runs in 454 at-bats. He never slugged .500, and his strikeout-to-walk ratio (65-88) was his best aspect. Those sort of numbers don't even always lead to seventh-round picks and $85k bonuses, but that's what Duda got for his time and efforts.

At first blush, Duda's .299/.398/.462 debut is okay, but doesn't look incredible for a 21-year-old in the New York Penn League, where he was of average age and coming from a strong collegiate program. On the other hand, the fact that he could basically repeat his .280/.378/.462 in a professional league in his first attempt might have been a clue.

If it was a clue, it was obscured by his 2008 at St. Lucie in the Florida State League. His .263/.358/.398 probably threw most people off the scent. What further contemplation reveals is that the FSL is a tough league. In fact, in this article about the FSL this year, Bryan Smith says on Fangraphs that, in terms of "runs and BaseRuns alike, the FSL is the hardest league in professional baseball for hitters." While the league overall is still a tough one for hitters, we can't give Duda too much of an adjustment because St. Lucie was one of the more offense-friendly parks in the league. In any case, .256/.324/.374 was the average line in the league, so at least Duda was above- average.

He still didn't look like a viable first baseman or corner outfielder. Not with that slugging percentage. Even in a semi-breakout in his first go-through in Binghamton (.279/.381/.426), he didn't look like a major league option at the corners. Binghamton had park factors above one in most offensive categories in 2007 (1.02 R, 1.02 H, 1.04 2B, 1.00 HR), but the 2009 Eastern League was in the bottom third of run environments. And he was above average as usual, as the league average line was .261/.332/.395. Once again, though, above average does not equal a corner outfielder.

Then we come to 2010. He repeated at Binghamton and pretty much blew the doors off his previous projections with a .289/.409/.509 line that suddenly looked like the major leagues was a possibility. At 24, he was right at league average that year (24.3), and it certainly doesn't look like a fluke since he's continued to rake at Triple-A Buffalo (.330/.402/.661). A guy that hit three home runs in a full year at USC has 23 home runs this year.

Still, we are left with a player that had 1,121 at-bats of sub-par power and now 389 at-bats of breakout power with a capital P. Sample-size concerns come in to play in general, and also specifically. Russell Carlton once famously showed that isolated power didn't stabilize until 550 plate appearances in single season, so Duda hasn't even reached that threshold yet this year. It's one of the last things to become reliable, and Duda is still about a hundred plate appearances short of the benchmark.

The scouting community seems to remain skeptical. Here's a question from Jim Callis in an August 25 chat:

Frank (NYC): What do you think Lucas Duda's chances of hitting in the bigs are? He has absolutely crushed AAA this year. I know he's not a glove guy like Nieuwenhuis is, but reports say he isn't a train wreck in LF. Isn't it worth seeing if he can be an upgrade over Franceour in the order while playing LF for the rest of the season with Pagan in RF.


Jim Callis: I'm not sure he's going to be a regular on a good club, but I concur that the Mets should give him an audition and find out.

And scouting reports from trusted sources are light. Bryan Smith offered the following when contacted:

He was a guy at USC that people always assumed would hit for more than he did -- he's massive, you know -- but it wasn't there. I don't know if the Mets re-worked his swing or approach or whatever, but it's clearly been a change in philosophy. While I don't have a ton of trust in the MinorLeagueSplits numbers, I trust enough the groundball percentages for hitters, and he's seen a drop in each season. But even still, I'm sure his HR/FB numbers are unsustainable, and there are a lot of examples in history of minor league hitters going on power binges, and confusing us about their true talent level. I like Duda, because he's going to walk a lot, and he's consistently made hard contact in the minors, but I'm just not ready to call him a 30 HR guy.

One of the main problems mentioned about Duda beyond the reliability of his power is is his poor platoon split. He's only hit for a .622 OPS against lefties in 422 lifetime at-bats in the minor leagues. Even in his lights-out 2010 campaign, he's only had a .764 OPS against lefties. But yet again, the sample size is an issue because splits are supposed to be regressed to 1000 plate appearances for major-league left-handed hitters. It looks like a real flaw, even if he could still develop the ability to hit lefties.

You know what, though? We currently have an outfielder under team control for 2011 that is okay against lefties. Perhaps it's Duda, and not Martinez, that should platoon in right field with him. Just don't pencil him to continue his current line at the major league level.

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Stupid question

Rosters expanding Sept 1, Im assuming he’ll get the call. This doesnt count against him for service time or anything like that right?

I see no reason not to give him a shot especially with the way the lineup is hitting. The only two positions I see “blocked” are 3B and CF since Wright and Pagan/Tron are the solutions there, with 1B and C occupied by two youngsters with minimal upside guys riding the bench backing them up in Hessman and Blanco.

by Sitebot'sGrisson on Aug 27, 2010 11:10 AM EDT reply actions  

Clarifying

Hessman and Blanco are the minimal upside guys, not Thole and Ike who are the C and 1B. God I think I need more caffeine because that sentence actually made sense in my head and its totally illegible.

by Sitebot'sGrisson on Aug 27, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

you are being kind

Hessman and Blanco have NO upside to speak of. The mets are good at no upside.

by jdon on Aug 27, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kindness and Mets fans...

It’s the only way we get by. You don’t think Hessman has any upside potential? I think we could encourage him to use some PEDs. By my thinking a monster 112 game season (with a 50 suspension) is better than a less than mediocre 162 game season.

by MookieTheCat on Aug 27, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

He likely won't, as he's not yet on the 40.

There really isn’t much reason to add him now just for a cup of coffee when he’ll likely play very little. I think it’s far more likely he goes to Arizona, leaving an extra 40 spot open for the offseason.

Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...

by Stephen Schmidt on Aug 27, 2010 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I've heard he would be rule-5 illegible though

or is he still a year off?

Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Josh Byrnes/Chip Hale as Mets 2011 GM/Manager.

by Ogre39666 on Aug 28, 2010 1:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

still a year off

06 draft picks will be eligible this year.

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon

by Gina on Aug 28, 2010 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

can't we put a floor on his statistical stabilization by giving him an 0-fer for x at bats until he hits our magic 550 PA number?

If we do that, then can’t we say that there has been real improvement? His power numbers are in a different world, and his stats still remain pretty respectable if we give him 100 outs – strong enough to give us a major league equivalence better than what we have in Francoeur.

by djg2111 on Aug 27, 2010 11:15 AM EDT reply actions  

there's no doubt he's improved

when I said that he hasn’t hit a benchmark for predictability, I meant that the likelihood this same power level continues is not huge. so if we are to predict his future power, all we can say now is that it will probably be better than it was before. but we can’t quite give him credit for .500+ slugging percentage based on 390 at-bats this year. improved? yes. Big Power Slugger Dude? undecided.

by Eno Sarris on Aug 27, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

As I mentioned when Ted Berg posted about Duda earlier in the week...

If the Mets organization is serious about “doing right by Buffalo” (or however it was phrased last winter after the Bisons’ awful 2009), it would seem to me to be really inappropriate to call up their best hitter to play meaningless games for the Mets when the Bisons are in the middle of a pennant race. (Although less in it than when I posted this on TedQuarters, since they’ve lost their last three games.)

by JoshNY on Aug 27, 2010 11:18 AM EDT reply actions  

haha awesome.

That’s one ugly child.

The one and only mistermet on teh Interwebz!

by Steve Schreiber on Aug 27, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well-executed and rec'd.

A delicious mozzarella from that one.

by tmu on Aug 27, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

When I lived in Africa...

I got charged by a Cape Buffalo once. They are very huge and very scary and very ill-tempered (though without laser beams). Now I can work on my fear of this particular beast by visualizing the photo above. Thanks, rec’d.

by MookieTheCat on Aug 27, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think an organization should put the pennant race of the AAA team

ahead of finding out more about a prospect who can actually help the big league team and maybe even excite the fanbase.

by EtSuKe on Aug 27, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

OK, obviously the major league team has to be the organization's top priority

but the difference between calling him up on September 1st when rosters expand, and calling him up when the Bisons’ season is over, is not even a week; the Bisons end their season on 9/6 unless they make the playoffs. Plus, knowing Jerry, even if Duda got called up he’d get like 2 PA in those six games. Is the amount we could find out about Duda from 9/1-10/3 (plus possibly winter ball and in ST next year) really all that more than what we’d find out about him from 9/7-10/3 (plus the other stuff)?

by JoshNY on Aug 27, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's a reasonable position to take, Josh.

My only problem with it is that the Mets should have had Duda up several weeks ago. And, I also agree that if there’s a manager who will sit Duda and play Francouer, it’s Manuel.

I assume there’s going to be some FO dysfunction involved, where Manuel won’t necessarily play the guys Minaya wants to put on the 25-man.

by Jack Str on Aug 27, 2010 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't know...

you’re kind of convincing me. A month of any player can’t tell that much. As Jack said, it would’ve been better several weeks ago.

by EtSuKe on Aug 27, 2010 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Our contract with Buffalo is also up at the end of the year

A little goodwill would probably be a really good thing

Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...

by Stephen Schmidt on Aug 27, 2010 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good point, especially given how Buffalo has felt

mistreated by the major league club in recent years.

I think it was as late as the 60s that the minors were considered real leagues, and as late as the 50s I’m fairly certain that several minor league teams outdrew some of the weaker major league teams. There was no sense back then that AAA and AA were merely there as grossly inferior adjuncts to the majors.

by Jack Str on Aug 29, 2010 3:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

i did not read Ted's take

I hope I didn’t duplicate work too much.

by Eno Sarris on Aug 27, 2010 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

BUFFALO

I see your point but it is a good time to look at young talent in these meaningless games. It would be a great problem to have if Duda looked good in the Majors. If he hits well it might spur the Mets to push Beltran out of town somehow & definitely help them avoid the temptation of tendering Francouer a contract for 2011.

by MDMETSFAN on Aug 27, 2010 11:22 AM EDT reply actions  

Probably a good idea to look to trade Beltran or keep him

regardless of how Duda plays. The sample size for him in what’s left of the ML season won’t be big enough to get a strong sense of whether Duda will hit well enough in 2011 to be a regular.

At this late date I think the best we can do is get a sense of whether he should be in the mix, or whether he looks so overmatched that he’ll need at least a full year in AAA before he could possibly be ready.

by Jack Str on Aug 27, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Plus playing Meaningful game and doing well wouldn't it just build his confidence

Which is probably what FMART is lacking after Mets brought him up way to early the last 2 yrs.
Don’t know why they think Bringing up 20yr olds that aren’t ready will help

by Sir Tmac on Aug 27, 2010 11:27 AM EDT reply actions  

Duda can't be much worse than Frenchy

Agian, would a platoon split of Duda/Evans in RF be that bad?

"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"

by feslenraster on Aug 27, 2010 11:50 AM EDT reply actions  

Duda and Evans

Come one, let’s do it. These guys are slugging up a storm. Evans actually is hitting righties well too this year. Stick the in left and Angel in right.

Fernando ok, he needs another season in Buffalo. But I’m hoping he can be like Cargo (at least at bat), since Cargo had a 22.5%/6.4% K/BB rate in AA at the same age as Fernando this year.

by wobatus on Aug 27, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

fr, I have to think there's no way they would not be better than Francouer.

Given that Evans already had success w the Mets in the platoon role, and that Duda is crushing the ball from the other side, unless the Mets are planning to go outside the organization (and assuming Duda can actually play RF no worse than he plays LF) next year, a Duda/Evans platoon looks like plan A if Beltran is moved, or can’t play any better than he has so far, or simply can’t play at all for an extended period.

What would we consider the minimum acceptable OPS from a platoon like that—.825? Given slightly below average defense, that’s still 2 wins from RF. I would have taken that this year.

by Jack Str on Aug 29, 2010 3:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

He's Rule V eligible after this season so

I’m sure he’ll be called up when rosters expand. Dillon Gee is also Rule V eligible. Jerry better be playing these guys over the likes of Francoeur and Misch.

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by Steve Schreiber on Aug 27, 2010 12:03 PM EDT reply actions  

DUDA EVANS

That would work- both would get a good number of at-bats & they’re both at the right age to promote (see Sir Tmac on F-Mart). And I can’t add anything more to the “much worse than Frenchy”- that about says it all.

by MDMETSFAN on Aug 27, 2010 12:03 PM EDT reply actions  

Interesting comment on the GB%

If the flyball % at minorleaguesplits is trustworthy, then he’s at 16.5% HR/FB (that’s 23 hr for 140 fb-they actually break down his homers as 5 in 61 line drives and 18 on 140 flyballs).

That’s not that outrageous, and if his GB% has been declining I think some of the power improvement is for real.

Cameron just had a piece on much of Jose Bautista’s improvement being for real (not all of it of course, unless he’s become a 50 homers a year type). Much higher FB rate. And it started showing last September.

The minor league slugging this year has been big. Evans. Duda. Lutz. Havens. Campbell at higher levels. vaughn down in short season.

Maybe it’s an organizational decision to go for my loft, at least in the minors. Like the Jays in the majors it seems this year. One can only hope.

by wobatus on Aug 27, 2010 12:20 PM EDT reply actions  

It'd be interesting to know of any rumors to that effect.

I haven’t heard any, and while it’s difficult to credit the Mets organization with a concerted, positive, unified effort, it would be nice to think they could pull off something like this.

by Jack Str on Aug 29, 2010 3:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

Of course

ultimately it is the player. And campbell and Lutz are up around 50%, which for Lutz i think is up a little.

Regardless, nice to see so much power from these guys, all of them not really that highly thought of and while some a tad older none of them 25 yet.

by wobatus on Aug 27, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Start Duda in LF

As soon as the Bisons season is over, start Duda/Beltran/Pagan for the rest of the year, with Beltran getting every 4th or 5th day off.

If Duda has the goods, and I think that he has, start him in LF next year with Pagan in RF, provided that Bay can be traded (preferably for 2B help.) If Bay can’t be traded, move him to RF and trade Pagan.

At the beginning of 2012, the Mets will be able to choose from F-Mart, Captain Kirk, and Ratliff for the OF. They may even have Flores, den Dekker and Vaughn as additional choices in 2012.

The OF is the one area where the Mets farm system is beginning to produce, and Duda just might be the first all-star caliber player to emerge.

by Russ on Aug 27, 2010 12:52 PM EDT reply actions  

Bay

Bay has $54.375M over 3 years left on his contract, plus a $3M buyout (or $17M option). I don’t think many, if any teams, will be interested in taking that on unless the Mets take back a similar type of contract for a underachieving player.

I wouldn’t advocate trading Pagan for Duda, which is effectively what you’re suggesting if Bay can’t be traded (and I don’t believe he can). Pagan at this point has less question marks than Duda, even if Duda hits well in September.

Letting Duda play a full season in Buffalo in 2011 with the occasional callup to fill in for an injury while the team waits for Beltran’s contract to expire and/or Pagan to turn into a pumpkin wouldn’t be the worst thing.

I agree with your last point about the Mets producing decent OF talent.

by El Duq of Hurl on Aug 27, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

'all-star caliber talent'

I do think Duda has progressed and is interesting, but with that platoon split, and the fact that he just found his power stroke, I think my main point was that we shouldn’t pencil Duda into the all-star game yet.

by Eno Sarris on Aug 27, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pagan for 2B

I agree with you that Bay is probably untradeable, so it would mean moving Pagan.

I think that Pagan has had a great year, and he’ll probably have some more. Let’s be realistic about him. He’s in his prime, and 3-4 years from beginning his physical decline. His trading value is about as high as it is going to be.

I’m advocating the Mets possibly trade Pagan for real help at 2B. The Mets have a lot of OF talent in their minor league system, but very little healthy middle infield talent. Trading Pagan is trading from a position of strength to eliminate a major weakness. Now, I don’t know which teams would be interested in Pagan, and which ones have a 2B that would help the Mets, but I believe that the Mets should proactively explore such a path.

by Russ on Aug 27, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

there's no way we'll get fair value for Pagan at 2nd base

it’s pretty much literally impossible. And none of the guys in the minors are expected to be half the player Pagan is right now, not to mention he’s our only centerfielder once Beltran leaves. There’s almost no realistic trade that involves moving Pagan where we wouldn’t end up worse.

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon

by Gina on Aug 27, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pagan has been our best player in 2010. Decent 2bmen are cheap and available.

There’s just no reason to make a desperate move like this. Also, in spite of having some promising OF prospects, the Mets have no prospect who is a favroite to be even average in the OF with the ML team in 2011.

Trading Pagan is THE move you’d make if you were going to punt 2011.

by Jack Str on Aug 27, 2010 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pagan trade

I think this is creative, and I like the idea of selling high in general. However, based on the roster as it is presently constituted, the Mets pretty much have to compete to win in both 2011 and 2012, with 2011 already pretty hamstrung because of all the guaranteed money. I also agree with Gina that there is no viable 2B option to acquire in a Pagan trade.

From my perspective, the Mets really won’t be in any position to do a full-fledged teardown until after 2012, at which point they could, theoretically, eat parts of the Santana and Bay contracts, and deal off the last vestiges of the Minaya-era Mets. Such a teardown would presumably include Wright, Reyes (if he came back on a shorter deal), Pelfrey, etc. That is NOT the strategy I would advocate for at this point, but it’s not even a theoretical possibility until after 2012.

With Beltran as a question mark, Pagan is absolutely essential to the Mets chances of contending over that two year span. There is simply no one else in the system who fits as a CF going forward.

by sjohnson125 on Aug 27, 2010 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

.
There is simply no one else in the system who fits as a CF going forward.

Darrell Ceciliani?

Save Jenrry Mejia!
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by Ogre39666 on Aug 28, 2010 2:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

he's kind of years and years away

I think he means more there’s no one will a realistic chance of contributing in the next 3 years.

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon

by Gina on Aug 28, 2010 3:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yep

The absolute fastest timetable for Ceciliani has him reaching the majors in September 2012; he has never played a full season. I suspect that the best case scenario would get him through Savannah and St. Lucie next year, starting 2012 in Binghamton. But I think realistically, the earliest ETA for Ceciliani is late 2013 (though with the Mets propensity for rushing prospects, you never know…).

From my glance at the CFs in the organization now, none are really acceptable for a team that is financially compelled to try to win now, except for Pagan. The financial considerations probably prohibit the Mets from bringing in a CF of comparable value from the open market. They will have much more flexibility in 2011/12, at which point dealing Pagan might make more sense (if, say, Nieuwenhuis tears up AAA in 2011), but for 2011, I think Pagan stays.

I am looking forward to this year’s AAOPs, b/c it will be interesting to see how people manage the financial restrictions of this offseason.

by sjohnson125 on Aug 28, 2010 8:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

Mets CF for 2011 on out

For 2011, Carlos Beltran will probably be the CF. He may not deserve to be the CF, but looking at how the Mets operate, my guess is that it is his to lose.

For 2012, I’d look at Ratliff, den Dekker, Ceciliani, and even Vaughn. You can even throw F-Mart and Captain Kirk in if you’re praying for a miracle.

Going back 2011, let us compare two scenarios, only looking at the OF positions and 2B.

Option 1) Bay/Beltran/Pagan in the OF and Tejada, Castillo, Havens, Turner or Valdespin at 2B

Option 2) Duda/Beltran/Bay in the OF, and Pagan is used to get 2B help.

Which option is better? The biggest flaw here is that I’ve no idea who the Mets could get at 2B for Pagan. We also don’t know how Duda will do in the big leagues. Those variables are huge.

All of that said, I’m very concerned that the Mets have no healthy, major league ready 2B who are defensively and offensively above average, if not elite. I’m also concerned that Pagan is 29, and that in the post-steroids era, he’s probably only got 3-4 more years left at his current playing level.

by Russ on Aug 28, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

What?

Den Dekker, Cecilani, and Vaughn have little to no chance of being ready by 2012, they don’t have much chance of being ready by early 2013. And certainly no chance of adequately replacing Pagans production.

And we probably have more adequate 2nd base options in our system than cf at this point. Havens and Lutz are more likely to be ready by 2012/late 2011 then any of the guys you’ve listed.

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon

by Gina on Aug 28, 2010 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sean Ratliff

Sean Ratliff could exceed Pagan’s offensive output, and be ready for the 2012 season. Also, I wouldn’t discount den Dekker so fast. Granted it is only the Sally that he is tearing up, but if he’s the real deal, he could have multiple promotions next year.

We have great 2B options in our system who are ready, or close to ready, except that they are injured. Our best option, Reese Havens, has very serious questions about his ability to stay healthy.

I wouldn’t count on Zach Lutz. I don’t think that he has the range for 2B, and he has health concerns. If we were talking about the ‘86 Mets, you wouldn’t need a 2B with great range because we had Keith Hernandez. Ike Davis is excellent, but he doesn’t have that kind of range.

Now if Angel Pagan could be converted to 2B, that would solve all of the problems, but I doubt that is a realistic option.

by Russ on Aug 29, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

Injuries are also a constant threat a having a good 4th outfielder is a good idea,

especially when one of the outfielders is Beltran. There is always free agency too.

by EtSuKe on Aug 29, 2010 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Absolutely. Given how serious the injuries are to Beltran and Bay

the Mets really do need a 4th OFer that’s roughly a major league average corner OFer. In other words, a guy who could start on a lot of teams. It woud be great to know if we have that guy in the organization before April 2011.

by Jack Str on Aug 29, 2010 3:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

Good Point

After this season, four outfielders is probably a good idea.

We still have the problem at 2B though.

by Russ on Aug 29, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

I mean realistically

name the 2b, or a list of 2b, you’d expect to trade Pagan for?

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon

by Gina on Aug 27, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is Omar still the GM?

If so, Alex Cora

Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...

by Stephen Schmidt on Aug 27, 2010 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

2B

Well, the long-term outlook for 2B is hope is to either hope Tejada learns how to hit major league pitching, hope Reese Havens can stay on the field for a full season (and continue developing), or hope a longshot has a Duda-esque breakout (Satin, Valdespin). But what about Daniel Murphy? He was playing 2B prior to getting injured. Did the injury scare the Mets from making him a second baseman?

I agree that Pagan’s value is high. He’s good and cheap. Which is why the Mets should hold onto him. I don’t know which second basemen are on the market (trade or free agency), but I can’t imagine any being in a better situation than Pagan (good and cheap) by an appreciable enough margin to justify either the trade itself or having to rely on Bay and Beltran being healthy for all of next season PLUS one of Duda, Martinez, Evans or Nieuwenhuis being MLB-ready next season.

by El Duq of Hurl on Aug 27, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

the only 2nd basemen I can even think of on the block

are Phillips, Weeks and possibly Kelly Johnson, Johnson only has one more year of controllability left, same with Weeks I believe, and Phillips has an expensive contract.

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon

by Gina on Aug 27, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Chone Figgins will almost certainly be on the block,

And I could see them swapping him for next to nothing (maybe even Castillo)

Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...

by Stephen Schmidt on Aug 27, 2010 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah I don't think I'd want to make that swap

even if he bounces back offensively at his age I imagine he’ll be castillo part II. Except more money.

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon

by Gina on Aug 27, 2010 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like Weeks

He’s having an amazing season. Felipe Lopez and Juan Uribe will be free agents this offseason.

by EtSuKe on Aug 27, 2010 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

weeks is permanently injured though

and we’re talking about guys worth trading Pagan for. Not all available 2nd basemen.

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon

by Gina on Aug 27, 2010 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't trade Pagan for him

I was just naming potential offseason targets

by EtSuKe on Aug 28, 2010 1:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Mark Ellis will be a FA

decent player who should be cheap and good in the field.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Josh Byrnes/Chip Hale as Mets 2011 GM/Manager.

by Ogre39666 on Aug 28, 2010 2:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

2007 draft, none of the top picks "worked out" (picking Ruff Rider was turrible), but

5th round, 183: Zach Lutz, 3B
7th round, 243: Lucas Duda, 1B, USC
21th round, 663: Dillon Gee, RHP, University of Texas (Arlington)
30th round, 933: Rylan Sandoval, 2B

by Michkin on Aug 27, 2010 2:17 PM EDT reply actions  

of course we're going to completely ignore all of them

despite their production.

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon

by Gina on Aug 27, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Didn't Duda have a broken wrist?

I seem to recall reading that Duda had a broken wrist at some point? Doesn’t that significantly sap power for at least a year?

Reference to Duda’s broken wrist:

http://www.metsminorleagueblog.com/2010/08/24/bisons-blow-out-paw-sox-more-on-gee/

by beelzebot on Aug 27, 2010 3:13 PM EDT reply actions  

It wouldn't surprise me if it took several years to fully recover,

on the other hand, I’m no doctor, so what the hell do I know about it?

by Jack Str on Aug 27, 2010 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good link. Thanks.

I’ll put that on my list of other sites to check in on from time to time.

by Jack Str on Aug 28, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

another plus....dumping Frenchy would save money!!

I’m shocked the Cheapons haven’t thought of that.

"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"

by feslenraster on Aug 27, 2010 5:12 PM EDT reply actions  

No it wouldn't....

He’s guaranteed and no one in their right mind would assume that contract.

by MookieTheCat on Aug 27, 2010 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

You Beat Me To It Mookie

Rumor was that he cleared waivers. Which does mean we can trade him to anyone, but I doubt anyone wants him. Our only choice is to DFA him, which means we end up paying his salary anyway.

by George_Sloan on Aug 27, 2010 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Though I wouldn't be utterly surprised if a contending team

desperately needing a bat against lefties picked him up. He could be one of those guys who responds well to a change of scenery, his salary for th erest of the season isn’t prohibitive, and just as he was nowehre near as good as he looked last year with the Mets, he’s nowhere near as bad as he looks now.

Disgust for the FO aside for getting him in the first place, Francouer has some value to a team that doesn’t ask him to do things he clearly cannot do. For an AL team that needs an occasional RFer, a PHer, and a DH versus lefties, he’s a good fit.

by Jack Str on Aug 28, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

he's already cleared waivers once apparently

so apparently no one’s that desperate for a righty bat.

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon

by Gina on Aug 28, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Heh.

Still, he’s going to have a job next year on a major league team, and it wouldn’t surprise me if it was a smart team.

Imagine if, without telling you his name, I told you for a million or two I could get you a RFer who was average, maybe average+ on defense, with a killer arm, who could go 10-3 on stolen bases for the year AND hit .300 against lefthanded pitching with a respectable OBP of .340 and a very nice slugging pct of .480.

There are definitely teams in baseball that could use a guy like that, particularly if he can DH and can fill in at 1b. Just take a look sometime at the performance a lot of teams are getting from their DH slots. It’s surprisingly poor. Of the 9 DHs with more than 300 PAs at the “position” six have an OPS under .810.

by Jack Str on Aug 29, 2010 3:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Aha--it's occurred to me that the Wilpons aren't cheap in one sense,

it’s that they really don’t understand a sunk cost. They actually believe by not playing Francouer, they’re losing money. I’ve known wealthy people with all kinds of harebrained notions about the economy, about the value of money, and about how things in general attain value. The only common denominator I ‘m aware of wrt to wealthy people is, they know how money is made. That’s entirely different from being smart about money and things economic.

by Jack Str on Aug 28, 2010 4:45 PM EDT reply actions  

I want no part of Pagan at secondbase

the Mets have a historical mess of playing people out of position (Todd hundley in LF), Dan Murphy—(Ahem!)….either play Pagan everyday in RF, or trade either him or Beltran in the off season. and don’t for the love of Baseball God, resign Frenchy.
Unfortunately, the team’s stuck with Good Bay, Bad Bay and Decent Bay heh.

"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"

by feslenraster on Aug 28, 2010 7:12 PM EDT reply actions  

Pagan at 2b?

We’re going to move our best player to the second most dangerous position on the diamond?

by Jack Str on Aug 28, 2010 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think you misread

Pagan to be traded for a 2nd basemen not play 2nd base

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon

by Gina on Aug 28, 2010 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Whew.

I was reading feslenraster immediately above, say his remark above the fold, and just about ____.

Because, you know, if Pagan was listed at 2b next Opening Day, I wouldn’t be surprised. Not really. These are the Wilpons. This is Omar. Let’s jerk Mejia around. It’ll be fun. Starting rotation. Bullpen. Starting Rotation. Injury. Starting Rotation. Change teams. Two starts. Change teams. A couple of starts, a couple of turns in the pen. WTF could possibly go wrong? Let’s expose him to three managers and three pitching coaches, because that always works. The more the merrier, I say!

by Jack Str on Aug 28, 2010 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

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