Tommy John Surgery likely for Stephen Strasburg
This really is a damn shame.
over 1 year ago
Rob Castellano
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World coming to an end
as Steve Phillips was right. omfg!
"Sometimes you make a mistake and you get hit in the head." - Eli Manning
indeed. like I said before somewhere
I think the Nats mishandled Strasburg’s injury. When they pulled him out of his start two weeks ago, he should have imemdiately gone on the DL. oh well, hope he recovers well enough to pitch in 2011-2012 and effectively. he was fun to watch.
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
The Nationals did everything they could
to prevent him from getting injured. They babied him an incredible amount. He didn’t show any kinds of injury coming off the DL the first time (his first injury was a shoulder strain, so theoretically was not the main cause of his elbow tear if it was healed when he returned), but never pitched > 5 innings. I see nothing wrong with what the Nationals did. They tried everything they could to prevent him from becoming the next Mark Prior and he’s starting down that path anyway.
by Criss Angel Couldn't Make Frenchy Vanish on Aug 27, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
wait
why couldn’t they have let him develop in the minors all year? it is not like he was going to make them a contender this year. he was rushed more than even Prior was.
he wasn't rushed
he was ready, there was nothing to develop. Leaving him in the minors wasn’t going to do anything.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
also he was already on the 40
and the best pitcher in the organization. It just doesn’t make any sense to leave someone down there when they’re dominating, if anything it might have hurt him developmentally to continue facing batters who couldn’t do anything against him.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
I think you and the Nats are very mistaken
it was always the case that in previous eras no matter how much a young pitcher dominated the minors, you would let him pitch at least a full year to build up his arm. Nothing compares to facing major league hitters, you can throw hundreds of pitches in the minors and not build up the same stress as you do when you face major legaue hitters even in a game or two. Prior broke this rule and look what happened. Look how the Rays handled David Price or even how the Braves handled Hanson. The only known way of miitgating the risk of injuries with these young phenoms is to bring them along slowly. It is not 100% foolproof of course not even close. But I can’t think of a single young pitcher in the last say 15 years who was rushed to the majors that has not gotten hurt pretty early on. Sometimes the conventional approach/wisdom is still correct.
the one exception to my above statement
might be Felix Hernandez as I was reminded of just now when I went over to Lookout Landing.
well Hanson and Price
weren’t even in the same stratosphere of being ready as Strasburg. They were left down because they actually weren’t good enough most of the times when they were called up and still had to work on their pitches, not because of arm strength, or at least not entirely because of it. And I imagine that’s why they had him on strict pitch and innings counts.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
leaving him in the minor leagues
wouldn’t have prevented his elbow from going boom. He was on a strict pitch count in the MLB and in the MiLB. The only difference between what he was doing at AAA and in the MLB was where he was doing it. He had a no hit start going through 6 at AAA and they took him out.
by Criss Angel Couldn't Make Frenchy Vanish on Aug 27, 2010 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions
again 100 pitches in the minors isn't the same as 100 pitches in MLB
and it is not like he was dominant every start. Mets make him look rather mortal. His control wasn’t always as sharp as it was in his first start and in the minors. Its a shame becuase he has unlimited potential but he had hardly arrived yet. And Lookout Landing makes a very interesting case for Felix Hernandez deserving some of that Strasberg hype plus he has stayed healthy.
I disagree.
50 pitches at 100 MPH will do the same toll to your arm against MLB competition or MiLB competition. Now, if he had pitched 100 more innings in the MLB than he would have pitched in AAA, that would be different.
But the human arm was not meant to throw as hard as Strasburg throws (it was not meant to throw as hard as the average MLB player throws either, but we’re talking extreme cases here). That’s why they break. It’s also why there have been maybe one or two (if that many) pitchers in the history of baseball who have consistently thrown as hard as Strasburg.
Also, his control not being as good can be ascribed to the fact that MLB hitters have better plate discipline than MiLB hitters, but you can’t learn to deal with this aspect while in the minor leagues.
by Criss Angel Couldn't Make Frenchy Vanish on Aug 27, 2010 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Truly a shame
I wish him a quick recovery (except for when he pitches against the Mets).
The one and only mistermet on teh Interwebz!
by Steve Schreiber on Aug 27, 2010 11:53 AM EDT reply actions
What now, Rob Dibble?
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
Agreed. I'm still with Dibs on this one.
I mean OK, you throw a pitch, it bothers your arm, tears your elbow ligament and you immediately call out the manager and the trainer? Suck it up, kid. This is your profession. You chose to be a baseball player. You can’t have the cavalry come in and save your butt every time you feel a little stiff shoulder, sore elbow. … Stop crying, go out there and pitch. Period.
And why doesn't Dickey need one?
Maybe Strasburg should convert to the knuckle
Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...
by Stephen Schmidt on Aug 27, 2010 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Hmm...F-15 and butterfly.
Imagine the pitch speed differential he’d be able to achieve with a knuckler and his fastball?
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Aug 27, 2010 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions
TJ
We should hardly act as if it’s an end to his career. A lot of pitchers come back stronger. Ask Arthur Rhodes.
Or Tommy John
He was a 3rd or 4th starter before then became a 2 3
Sorry to nitpick, but TJ was pretty much the same before the surgery as he was after.
A 116 ERA+ before that surgery (can’t remember what it’s called for the moment), and a 116 ERA+ after, through his last good season, his age 40 season. I’m not including his time after that since it doesn’t seem fair to count those years against him. ‘Course, I suppose you could counterclaim that if a guy’s ERA+ is the same from 33 through 40 as it was through age 31, then whatever it is they did to his arm probably made him a better pitcher than he would have been otherwise.
So, Hall of Famer?
It's not an end, but it's something that's pretty difficult to recover from
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?
Not to mention the lost time.
Missing a full season never does any players any good.
May you be locked in a battle of wits against Jerry Manuel.
by BobbyV_Incognito on Aug 27, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, look what happened to Phillip Humber
TJ surgery essentially ruined his career
And it took Liriano 3 years after his TJ surgery to return to his old form
Not every pitcher returns to dominance after TJ as quickly as Josh Johnson did.
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?
TJ surgery
I think this is especially true with young pitchers. I read an article about how parents of college pitchers were seeking out TJ surgery for their uninjured children, hoping it would add velocity. I couldn’t find the link to the article, if I can find it I will post it. Of course it doesn’t work that way, and the prevailing theory is that the surgery doesn’t add velocity per se, but that the ulner collateral ligament was slowly weakened prior to the injury requiring surgery, thus robbing the pitcher of some velocity. Surgically repairing the ligament brings back the loss in strength. Any adjustments the pitchers made to offset the weakening ligament would only improve their velocity that much more after surgery.
by MatthewM11 on Aug 27, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Nice summary.
I heard that too, about the parents. I think one mom asked if they could put an extra ligament into her boy’s arm.
A real Shame
Hate to see this happen to anyone, even if they play for someone else. I hope he recovers.
he may not pitch next year at all.
late in this season. doesn’t TJ ideally take longer than a year of rehab—particularly for a hard thrower?
Probably done until 2012
I would agree, although I have to admit that I really don’t know. Normal recovery time from TJ surgery was about a year.
by George_Sloan on Aug 27, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
it is a shame..kid looked amazing
now i’m wondering will he be Mark Pryor 2.0?
I hate Philadelphia so much.
During a game thread, and right after the Nats called him up,
I suggested that his mechanics could lead to trouble à la Mark Prior, and was shamed into silence with comments such as “That’s not right.”, “You shouldn’t wish that upon anybody.”, and the like. I hate to be proven correct in this case…I wish only the best for Strasburg.
It's a game of redeeming features. ~ Bob Murphy
When?
I was curious what you saw in his mechnics and after a brief search all I found was that you said “spreaking of morons steve philips suggests that Strasburgs mechnics are similar to Prior’s and… predicted DOOM.”
I did the same search and didn't find the comments I referenced
my bad…perhaps it was all a dream?
It's a game of redeeming features. ~ Bob Murphy
Nah I remember this...
I was trying to make the same case, less on a player-specific basis and more on a “really, no one should be counting chickens yet” basis. I also seem to remember being shouted down.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 27, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
so...I'm not suffering from early-stage Alzheimer's?
phew!
It's a game of redeeming features. ~ Bob Murphy
James Andrews said
That “proper” Mechanics don’t do anything to alleviate arm trouble, as he has seen people with perfect mechanics still hurting their arms. Somebody pointed out that a lot of guys who have thrown incredibly hard for a sustained periods of time without significant arm injury (Walter Johnson, Nolan Ryan and Cy Young as just a few) grew up on farms and that built up incredible stamina and strength in their arms.
What Would Matt Szczur Do?
by Hoyadestroya85 on Aug 27, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Good point.
Working on a farm also did alright by Three-Finger Brown, too. Clearly, the death of the small American farmer has been a loss for baseball.
May you be locked in a battle of wits against Jerry Manuel.
by BobbyV_Incognito on Aug 27, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Well you don't need...
…to work on a farm to get what Mordecai Brown (who was more of a soft-tosser) took away from it. Just ask a friend to run over your pitching hand and then don’t treat it.
Pinking shears would work fine, too.
Or small fireworks. No M-80s, though. You want to keep a couple of fingers.
May you be locked in a battle of wits against Jerry Manuel.
by BobbyV_Incognito on Aug 28, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
What who shamed you into silence
That’s been a topic since before he was drafted. Inverted w it’s been speculated on for a while.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
by Gina on Aug 27, 2010 1:57 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I thought Mark Prior had great mechanics, and wasn't hurt by them
Kerry wood was the comperable with bad mechanics, and his elbow got shredded. The shame of Mark Prior was that if his mechanics were worse, he would have been hurt much faster, gotten the surgery, and recover, instead of trying to pitch through pain.
If all a pitcher needs is great mechanics...
We need to draft this guy.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 27, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
people thought he had great mechanics at the time
since then it’s become a question
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
heard the same thing
I’ve heard broadcasters mention the same thing. What kind of effect will it have on Strasburg if the Nats start trying to change his mechanics, assuming he can recover from the surgery? What effect will this have on his velocity and movement? Is there any chance the Nats won’t change a thing when he returns?
He could actually stand to add a pretty good amount of velocity and movement, or just decrease his future risk of injury, by straightening some things in his delivery out and getting in better aerobic shape. Right now he generates almost all of his velocity from the shoulder up. He doesn’t rotate the important parts of his core (hip, torso/shoulders), relying pretty much entirely on the leverage from his elbow to generate velocity. If he could get more separation between the phases of his delivery he could use less shear arm speed to generate the same velocity/movement.
Changing Strasburg’s mechanics = a good thing.
Beyond the Box Score / Capitol Avenue Club / shwitter: @CapitolAvenue
I blame you.
Kidding!
It’s a shame for Strasburg, and really too bad for the Nats. With their top pick in the draft this year, and an FO that looks like it’s capable of making good moves, they looked like a team that was ready to vault over .500.
More competition for the Mets, but it was turning into a great story before this happened.
I was watching this game
And as soon as I saw it I said to my dad “that’s his UCL”
What Would Matt Szczur Do?
by Hoyadestroya85 on Aug 27, 2010 12:48 PM EDT reply actions
much as I hated the hype around the guy
that sucks. I was looking forward to seeing him shred our divisional rivals for a while.
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 27, 2010 12:51 PM EDT reply actions
Hahaha
Imagine if he was playing on a frayed ligament all season.
What Would Matt Szczur Do?
by Hoyadestroya85 on Aug 27, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
If thats the case the mets should sign this kid pronto!!!!
I hate Philadelphia so much.
by the caveman on Aug 27, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
rookie of the year
Unfortunately he was never the same since he tripped on that rosen bag in the playoffs. What we should be doing is giving tommy john surgery to random 12 year olds to find the next Henry Rowengartner
Al Rosen
should never have left his bag there.
What's the score, boys?
What did Bugs Bunny do?
What's with the Carrot League baseball today?
hey josh johnson didn't seem to mind.
"I only wanted a few things out of life -- a wife, children, to play baseball and to hunt deer." - Turk Wendell
Hope Nats don't follow Mets training Regiment
The Mets would have him try to throw 100 a week after surgery
Nobody saw that coming...
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Aug 27, 2010 1:28 PM EDT reply actions
The Nationals did just get back Jordan Zimmermann from TJ last year
Gas prices today are a lot like a pitcher's ERA. Anything under 3 is amazing, under 4 is pretty good and anything 5 and up is something you want to avoid.
Who will have a better career? Zimmermann or Strasburg?
Gas prices today are a lot like a pitcher's ERA. Anything under 3 is amazing, under 4 is pretty good and anything 5 and up is something you want to avoid.
by Bobby Baseball on Aug 27, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I mean, all things being equal, and they both have similar recoveries from TJ
Strasburg’s gotta be the choice.
John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.
Is this the battle of guys who sound Jewish but are not?
by MookieTheCat on Aug 27, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Rec'd
"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage
by blueandorange4life on Aug 27, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
This is really a damn shame
Hopefully the kid can return to form when he returns
I do wonder how long he’s had this significant of a tear. Couldn’t have just been from that one pitch he threw.
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?
Goes to show...
no innings limits or amount of babying are going to prevent the inevitable injury.
to hell with the verducci rules aka the joba rules.
this is silly
Just because a guy gets hurt with those things doesn’t mean that they don’t protect some guys
Sad for Strasburg...
But incredibly predictable. Just goes to show the inherent fallability of draft picks in baseball.
Oh hai guys...
Can we call Strasburg “Generation L”?
That would make me happy.
Only if storen gets hurt too
What Would Matt Szczur Do?
by Hoyadestroya85 on Aug 27, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
nice
i would have gone with the classic jerry response “thats poor, steve, thats poor.”
I hate Philadelphia so much.
The magic JerryBall
Ask Again later
Bunt
It is decidedly so
Bunt
Bunt
Bunt
That’s poor
Bunt
Bunt
Bunt
"Sometimes you make a mistake and you get hit in the head." - Eli Manning
by blains2000 on Aug 27, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Random acts of Jerry
We can use this as a basis
"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage
by blueandorange4life on Aug 27, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
ESPN had a visual
I believe it was 10 pitchers on the allstar teams this year had tommy john surgery. So it doesnt ruin careers.
But still, i think this has a lot to do with his motion, and going from a 100mph fastball to a large hooking curve. Something has to give. In this case it was his elbow, but he might have to change his motion, or pitches.
He'll be fine.
Hell, forget replacing the UCL and become the next RA Dickey. We could call him Stephen A Dicksburg.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Aug 27, 2010 5:20 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Random Comment
Daughter’s middle name is Shea. Not my idea but my wife’s. Cool wife or what? Discuss.
by Gobias Industries on Aug 27, 2010 7:13 PM EDT reply actions
you got yourself a good one.
i hope my gf one day if she makes it that far, is ok with name my kid ‘Keith David(last name)’ cause…damnit …that kid will be a mets fan
im a terrible parent already.
I hate Philadelphia so much.
If its a girl..cause i know some one will mention it
Anna…for the wife who ruined a guys time in NY
I hate Philadelphia so much.
Wow...that's just horrible...
My yunngin will have the middle name Wilponsucks regardless of gender.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 27, 2010 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions
And oh yeah....
Seems you have found yourself a keeper.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 27, 2010 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions
So, you and your wife named your child after a baseball stadium?
(Just wanting to make sure I understood.)
Some other possibilities:
Mookie Darryl Gobias
Citi Dykstra Gobias
Teufel Backman Gobias (if she has that platoon thing going)
Gemini Mezzanine Gobias
Upper Loge Gobias
Whaddya think?
Club Suite Gobias
Rising Apple Gobias (for the comined Mets fan/hippy family).
Member’s Only Billboard Gobias (seriously, they were advertising Member’s Only at Shea until the late 90s).
Armitron Gobias (same comment).
Bob Murphy Gobias (especially perfect for a girl).
Roger Jesse Orosco McDowell Gobias (another choice for the platoon-loving fan).
by MookieTheCat on Aug 29, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
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