Open Thread: Mets vs Astros, 8/29/2010
by Eric Simon on Aug 29, 2010 12:30 PM EDT
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PrintHouston Astros at New York Mets, Aug 29, 2010 1:10 PM EDT
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Go Dickey
I have to move my damn sister into college today. With plenty of college girls around, I’ll be thinking of Dickey.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Aug 29, 2010 12:38 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I love how every other team hits their best hitter 3rd
And yet we put ours in the 5 spot behind “Carlos Beltran” (I use the quotes because he’s a crappy, injured imitation of Carlos Beltran) and a bench player with barely 100 career ABs.
Mets managers have a phobia of batting Wright 3rd
First Willy Randolf saying that he hadn’t proved himself yet (despite being the best player on the team), and now Jerry always putting Pagan/Reyes/Beltran/Bay 3rd.
sunday is a great day
for dickey
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
Over/under 200 comments today?
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?
Over
Lets go guys, Dickey jokes should get us there
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
everybody in church?
the SNY theme song…what a glorious sound!!
No pressure baseball—no chance at the playoffs, scandals (sort of) behind us, major star (probably) injured for the rest of the season—plus a knuckleballer on the hill. Sit back and take it all in!
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
my optimism
is infectious
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Aug 29, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
unfortunately it also appears to be terminal
seems like we’re the only ones who survived the outbreak
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
sigh. i do like the sny theme song though
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Aug 29, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
me too
I always get excited when I hear it. It’s like I temporarily forget what that music means is coming.
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
exactly
like dogs trained to drool at a bell, we don’t always get snacks.
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Aug 29, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Pavlov approves
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
seems pretty dead here
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
we are the few, the proud, the incredibly bored
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm proud of RA Dickey
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Who the frack is Luis Hernandez....
and where the frack did he come from?
Omar and Jerry, dumbest tandem in baseball.
no fracking clue
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
it really is impressive
how many he manages to find
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Luis Hernandez is a former useless Brave
and Royals’ product, I believe
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
by feslenraster on Aug 29, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
sounds like our M.O.
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
this is what happens with a bad team
a guy, anybody, gets a coupe of hits and he is moved up in the order
only 8 in the NL over .300?
thats surprising
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 1:17 PM EDT reply actions
Keith doesn't understand how meaningless wins and losses are
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?
THIS IS AMAZIN
throw the frickin ball down the middle. it is Luis!
Watching Beltran bat from the left side makes me sad at this point
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?
its hard to watch
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
discouraging
remember when themets used to score runs in the 1st inning all the time in 2006?
yeah i remember I got nervous whenever we didn't
now I get nervous when we do, because it means its the last runs we’ll see that day.
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I've always been annoyed by Blum
I don’t know why, just never liked the guy. No real reason for it.
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 1:29 PM EDT reply actions
secretly, you want him to be a met
That 1 home run is just too enticing
yeah, we gotta get him early
he increased his HR total for the year by over a billion times with that one, at that pace, he’ll break the home run record in no time.
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
he belongs here
he is slow, average defensively, does not hit for average and has little power. he is also older. he could easily fill a spot on our bench
so he's a veteran presence who knows how to win?
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
an important skill as a Met
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
its a great compliment pitch
to the various knucklers
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
actually surprising
since his knuckler sinks like it does, I figured they’d be getting under it trying to swing at the sinking pitch and pop it up.
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
right, but if they try to overcompensate and then hit a fastball that doesn't sink
i figured they’d end up way under it. I get why the knuckler gets mashed into the ground, but I thought the fastball would be more of a pop-up favoring pitch.
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
that'll do it
I hadn’t really noticed the sink on it.
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
seen a few 84 fastballs
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
over
Consequences will never be the same.
by NetsMets4Life on Aug 29, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
over
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
hooray, he'll uppercut everything
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
magestic pop outs
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
over
Sigh I miss the days where the old Mets would you know,CHARGE the mound when crap like that happens!
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
by feslenraster on Aug 29, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
nice Ike
ive missed the last few games, has ike finally gotten rid of that annoying loading phase on his swing, that looked more reasonable
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 1:38 PM EDT reply actions
I don't think so. That might have required coaching.
I am more concerned that his fly balls are just not getting out.
maybe he read my previous comments on AA
and fixed it?
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Ike's HR stroke looks to be
gone—fatigue? confusion?
look...some hope!
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
second verse same as the first
except its more like 50th verse
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
ugh don't call him a diamond in the rough
the mets are not trading for him as we type.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
good question
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
they need DIckey to score runs
i love it
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
how is it out pitchers are so much better hitters than our hitters?
dan warthen for hitting coach?
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
hojo for pitching coach
if theres one thing he knows, its what swinging and missing looks like
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
wow that second baseman was lazy
thanks for that. Good stuff Dickey
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 1:43 PM EDT reply actions
yup Blum will be a Met soon
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Bases loaded = .190
Seriously, only reason the average is that high is because pitchers are actually hitting for us.
Go Big Dick!!!
The one and only mistermet on teh Interwebz!
by Steve Schreiber on Aug 29, 2010 1:44 PM EDT reply actions
Dickey 2, Astros 0
You don't cheer for the Mets. You drink for the Mets.
what is this number next to the Mets on the scoreboard that keeps going up
are these those run things i’ve heard so much about?
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 1:46 PM EDT reply actions
we are giving them way too much time
to come back
nice slap
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 1:46 PM EDT reply actions
Slappy!!!
The one and only mistermet on teh Interwebz!
by Steve Schreiber on Aug 29, 2010 1:47 PM EDT reply actions
A slappy blast
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
check him for roids
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
That cheating bastard
Consequences will never be the same.
by NetsMets4Life on Aug 29, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I bet he cooks babies in giant
cauldrons, too.
Consequences will never be the same.
by NetsMets4Life on Aug 29, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
or a corked bat.
The one and only mistermet on teh Interwebz!
by Steve Schreiber on Aug 29, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Slappy giveth, and slappy taketh away
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 1:47 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
any halfway decent IF
with a smidgeon of pride would have turned RA’s grounder into two. But I ain’t complaining
hows this game looking?
just got back from softball. our coach makes jerry manuel look like connie mack.
we're up 4-0
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Jerry
should wear a suit in the dugout/
Norris Smash!
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 1:50 PM EDT reply actions
haha the Mets RPG would be spectacular
Jerry uses 5 mana, casts bunt. Player strength down by 10, Jerry charisma in postgame interview, +5
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Carlos Beltran equips brace of knee stability +10
Speed down 20
power down 20
defense down 10
health +10
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
But every game would be a hack and slash mission.
Which is usually a sign of a bad dungeon master.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 29, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
another day, another lack of no hitters
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 1:51 PM EDT reply actions
what's a no hitter? I don't think I've ever heard of this term.
You don't cheer for the Mets. You drink for the Mets.
Gary needs to get the flu or something
so we can get it while he’s out
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
i believe its when a pitcher allows no hits for an entire game
An odd myth, it is.
Consequences will never be the same.
by NetsMets4Life on Aug 29, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
how about Oliver Perez as a hitter and Frenchy as a pitcher?
I’d love to see that hah!
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
play ollie at 2nd
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
this is totally random
but for some reason I can’t get the image of ruben tejada wearing a lions mane singing “I just can’t wait to be king” in reference to temporarily taking Jose’s ss spot out of my head.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
MS Paint here we come.
Consequences will never be the same.
by NetsMets4Life on Aug 29, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
damn
Dickey not exactly turning on the jets there
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 1:55 PM EDT reply actions
haha. except Ruben's song is: "I want to be a cub"
the guy can’t hit a lick, sorry to say
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
i swear it's like clock work
our pitchers are lights out until we give them a lead (albeit it happens so rarely the sample size isn’t big enough to make a judgement)
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
does seem to be the trend
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Our pitchers are lights out because our hitters go 1-2-3 on 7 pitches.
Then our pitchers never cool off.
maybe its because they're thinking:
“Holy crap! We have run support! We can relax a little now, right?, Right?”
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
im scared of what they're suggesting right now
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 2:05 PM EDT reply actions
no I got the Traid tha Core vibe immediately
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
watching Carter run amuses me
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 2:06 PM EDT reply actions
um
wtf are they talking about. whats more interesting is do they want to bring in new management?
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
i think that goes without saying
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
its amazing how hard it is for everyone in this organization to just think
maybe we need non morons running things?
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
blasphemy
clearly Dubs just doesn’t want it bad enough
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
either at some point
or over a considerable span
yeah even though they probably couldn't have expected Wright and Bays struggles
we went into the season expecting to give significant at bats to Frenchy, Barajas, GMjr, Mike Jacobs and old man Castillo.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
don't forget having a bench containing Alex Cora and Frankie Cats
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
true
but DW has had long droughts the last few years. not just slumps. droughts. Bay has (hopefully) suffered from the first year trying too hard syndrome
yeah but my point was more that
even with a reasonably healthy Wright and average Bay this line up was going to be full of holes.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
oh, that I agree with totally
Omar does not know how to put a roster together
how do you fill out a championship team
don’t bring in Jeff Francoeur.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
Ike is pretty tall
I thought it was low. Ike has been getting killed on bad punch outs this year. Rookie’s plight when you have mediocrity in blue
yep, that's why I don't check out Metsblog, I come here
but hey, if there were no morons running the Mets, what failed moves and non-moves will we fans complain about….
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
Meet the Astros, folks
swinging at the first pitch after a walk.
How about an Orange Monster at Citi Field for Bay?
by Mets-Suns-Texans on Aug 29, 2010 2:18 PM EDT reply actions
LOL at the text poll
How about an Orange Monster at Citi Field for Bay?
by Mets-Suns-Texans on Aug 29, 2010 2:19 PM EDT reply actions
does anyone know where to find the poll on sny?
all I see is one about revis
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
same. I usually try and answer it online but I can never find the poll they are talking about.
Consequences will never be the same.
by NetsMets4Life on Aug 29, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
57508
Consequences will never be the same.
by NetsMets4Life on Aug 29, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
we have three heavy groundballers in our line up
not that there’s anything wrong with groundballers but it’s kind of funny we have this cavernous park and don’t have a staff that takes advantage of it at all.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
an extreme flyball pitcher
in that most of his flyballs go extemely far
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
strategic teambuilding has never been our forte
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
You always want Ground Ball Pitchers
Citifield makes it more feasible to have fly ball pitchers,, but GB pitchers are always preferable, if all else is the same.
true, my statement was more generic
I’ve got no problem with groundballers
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
plus you don't always want groundballers
last year with some of the guys we put up the middle i’d have preferred flyball pitchers.
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree they're preferable
but you’d think with the abundance of flyball pitchers available who would suddenly go from average to somewhat above average in our park we’d have targeted some of them…like Vazquez.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
Position the OF really close to the wall.
Or just tell them to climb the wall and try to catch the HR.
If they fall off the high walls, the Mets Medical Staff Ray Ramirez will be there for them.
There are groundballs...
And there are groundballs right at the 2nd baseman. The former not so bad, the latter bad. I think we get the latter far more than our share.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 29, 2010 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
living a bit dangerously there
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 2:21 PM EDT reply actions
CB Bucknor
is annoying …
How about an Orange Monster at Citi Field for Bay?
by Mets-Suns-Texans on Aug 29, 2010 2:24 PM EDT reply actions
aw i was hoping dickey got all of that one
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 2:30 PM EDT reply actions
Hey...
Just got in from gardening. Am I right that Dickey got a hit with the bases loaded? Could that possibly be true?
It is
How about an Orange Monster at Citi Field for Bay?
by Mets-Suns-Texans on Aug 29, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
idle chatter
no, it is not. guys come out of slumps in September, Gary
If Reyes was on 3rd and Pagan is stealing 2nd, after the catcher throws it, I'd ask Reyes for a delayed home steal.
Though he would probably dive head first and get a concussion when he crashed against the catcher.
KEvin tell us about the carpenters!
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
is that KB's girlfriend?
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
i detect a hint of cynical exasperation in Kev's field reports
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
this has been his most trying season
what with all the interweb flak over his comments and lack of fans to interview. I look forward to his tell all book.
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Aug 29, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Hopefully he'll write it now and not three years from now.
The one and only mistermet on teh Interwebz!
by Steve Schreiber on Aug 29, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
im gunna use my Citi points
to help the mets field a competitive team
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
stay tuned!
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Aug 29, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
i think you can go to sny website
is that what they just said?
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Aug 29, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
it isnt there
like you guys said….the revis poll is there
thats because they know we're too smart to pay to text our answers
and if they let us vote, we wouldn’t support the Trade tha Core mentality
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
i have always wondered who would pay for this kind of thing
but then i’ve never watched american idle or paid for texting plan.
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Aug 29, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I lol'd at "american idle"
Consequences will never be the same.
by NetsMets4Life on Aug 29, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
proper spelling IMHO
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Aug 29, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
nice
Consequences will never be the same.
by NetsMets4Life on Aug 29, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I have unlimited txt so it's not a problem for me
(Still don’t vote for American Idle though)
Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Josh Byrnes/Chip Hale as Mets 2011 GM/Manager.
good, cause that would involve watching it
and I’m pretty sure that show causes cancer and sterility
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I used to watch the first two to four weeks
then shut it off. those were the funniest
you know it may have been funny
until that guy William Hung made a fortune by being awful at singing on TV. Thats the point I realized that show really showcases the worst in us all.
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
yes thats true
but it musta been ballsy for him. He was the first and he did it all with a smile. So Im not too mad at him.
I thought it a joke from the beginning
The only good thing to come out of those types of shows was the 5 mins of fame for that Susan Boyle (or whatever her name was) who actually had talent but would never have had the exposure.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Josh Byrnes/Chip Hale as Mets 2011 GM/Manager.
yeah but the exposure pretty much destroyed her
most reports are it went to her head so badly she was unmanagable and pretty much had a breakdown after a while, which is why you no longer hear about her.
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Whelp
sucks for her. Can’t say I really feel for her that much though.
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oh me neither
im just saying it’s not the way to get somebody into the music industry. Im of the opinion that you should have to work your way up, and this instant fame crap is just feel-good garbage TV
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh definitely
I wasn’t of the opinion that she should have a career; just 15 mins of fame for that voice.
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in this day and age theres no such thing as just 15 minutes of fame is the problem
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
True
The entire cast of Jersey shore says “what”?
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yeah i think they're even surprised people still pay attention to them
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
so you think
that all the responsibility for our woes rests with the 23 other players on the roster-whoever they are?
no i think it rests on like 15-18 of the others
and the front office. I mean as much as you might want to whine about them…They’re both havng top 3 seasons at their positions in the NL.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
there you go again--I am not whining!
I just think that something is rotten in the state of Denmark. It has been for nearly 5 years, and they have been here. I don’t say they have to be traded, but I am a laundry man. I want wins and I don’t care who delivers them. If a smart guy can turn chicken doo-doo into chicken salad, and it involves trading anyone, I am okay with it. Because this team is chicken doo-doo.
also
a lot of bad teams have plus players like that. Guys like Zimmerman. If they can be turned into several assets, and a better team, who cares?
well we can all agree that there's only one player on the mets who is untouchable
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Aug 29, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
because they generally can't be
and because there’s much easier ways to fix the team? It’s like if you have an infection in your leg, chopping off your leg could fix it, but so could keeping your leg and taking antibiotics, why would you choose to chop it off?
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
by Gina on Aug 29, 2010 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Just me, but it all depends
Keith made a point. You let GM’s know they CAN be had, just for a ridiculous price. If nobody bites, you just keep them.
yeah that's a good point in theory
but kind of pointless in practice, unless a team is going to swap a 5-6 WAR player for a 5-6 WAR player, or is stupid enough to give you like Evan Longoria for Wright there’s no real ridiculous price that would actual give you back fair value.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
Couldn't agree more
However, you never know how much someone values a player until they know that they have a shot to get them. We also are underestimating how stupid some GM’s could be. Omar is a complete moron, yet is a GM.
yeah but thats the problem
Omar would be making the trade, which completely negates the stupid of any gm he’d be trading with.
And more than likely someone smarter than him would be on the other side. There’s really only 1-2 gms+front offices dumber than him and neither of them could afford to take on the money owed.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
Wait
What if Omar is fired and a new GM is put in place?
well then that would obviously be different
but I’d hope the new gm would be smart enough to realize just not giving 500-800 at bats to the likes of Rod Barajas, Jeff Francoeur, Alex Cora, Gmjr, Mike Jacobs, Ruben Tejada would probably be the most reasonable first step. For another anology, it’s like you have a leaky roof, you can either try and plug the hole for a couple 100 bucks or go out and spend 20,000 on a new roof, which one are you going to try first?
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
by Gina on Aug 29, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
FanGraphs used a leaky Damn analogy
and I though it was perfect; the roof works just as well.
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My only thing is that
Trading them would free up 26 million dollars, and with the mets payroll already being f’d by Omar, it might help, if (and this is a huge if) the mets could get a ton of talent in return for either of them.
or we could just wait a year
and have Beltran, Perez and Castillo’s contracts all expire and free up 36 million and keep them both. And the thing is unless we’re somehow trading for 5-6 WAR players we’re going to end up spending 26 million and likely getting less in production.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
I agree
just playing devils advocate. I think I like your plan better. Unfortunately unless Omar is gone, he will probably just give that money to some other terrible players.
yeah I mean I agree there are
theoretical situations when trading Wright and Reyes would make sense, none are just very likely.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
but
What will Santana be then? Will we be shelling out long term for another Santana type? And let me ask you-do you want to give Reyes a 5-7 year contracct at 15-20 mil ? Don’t you feel that this will be Beltran all over again? You can say no one can tell but a judgment has to be made
i hate 5-7 year contracts as a rule
unless it’s the players first major contract
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah I'm not really sure why he'd walk
the only short stop I can think of who’s gotten more is Jeter, and no one else is coming close.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
he has an
option for 11, I read a while back. Maybe I am delirious?
Yeah he does
but I don’t know what that has to do with anything? once again how much are you expecting him to get on the open market? No short stops, especially injury prone ones, make that much. I think Furcal got like 3/40 or something when he was an FA with the Braves. And he’s the only high profile short stop I can think of, other than Jeter obviously, who’s hit the open market in his 20s.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
What did Miguel Tejada get from the Orioles?
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by Steve Schreiber on Aug 29, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
6/72
and that was coming off a 3 year .823 OPS average and zero games missed.
So basically he got one more year at the exact same price I said I’d top off at, while being a much better offensive player and not missing any time…
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
wouldn't you rather
get something than get draft picks?
I don't think we'll get anything better
than draft picks. and I really don’t think anyone’s going to offer him much more given his injuries.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
I think even 5 years
would be too much. He isn’t running now. His legs are supposed to be such an asset. He is too streaky, too bubble-headed. He was better 3 years ago. gary talks about him being in his prime. I wonder.
though i don't think it will be Beltran all
over again, I have no problem with beltrans contract I think it’s pretty reasonable and a bout what you should be expecting to get when you sign stars long-term in FA. I don’t think Reyes will be as valuable as Beltran was in his first few years.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
Beltran has averaged
22 HRTs and 88 Rbi-I wanted him signed too-but that sucks for the money-he essenntially missed the past wtwo years and was hurt year one
damn Puerto Rico trip
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Beltran's contract is very close to what he's actually been worth.
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Um
go look up average numbers for centerfield and tell me that sucks…and then look at his base running and defense.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
not to mention
OPS, OBP AVG, why in the world are you using HRs and RBIs?
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
really
the game is about how many runs score. not how many times you are left on base. I like some of those stats, but most teams lose because they score less.
And if you have a lineup full
of guys who get on base at a good clip, the runs will come. RBI and Runs are so dependent upon circumstance that it’s ludicrous to use them to evaluate talent.
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I am not evaluating talent
I am thinking about how to put together a team that wins. teams win by scoring more runs and allowing less. That is the single most important team stat. there has to be a reason why some guys ocnsistently score more runs and drive in more runs and why they get more money. there has to.
And allowing less
then why aren’t you accounting for the fact he was the best center fielder defensively in the league for most of those years?
Or the runs he created on the base paths with his stolen bases?
Unless you’re expecting the team to put a DH at every position there’s not many more optimal ways to build a teams offense than to get the kind of production that apparently isn’t good enough for you in CF(and once again totally ignoring the defensive side). How exactly could that have been spent better to produce runs given who’s been available on the open market, and even in trades moving large salaries?
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
Not to mention you can win
simply by preventing your opponent from scoring runs, your example of the Padres is a perfect example of that.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
I agree
but you still have to score to win. so runs crossing the plate has to matter.
Yes, absolutely
but using a context dependent stat to determine how well a team will do that isn’t the best way to do so. If your 1-7 hitters all have above league average OPS’s, your going to score some runs.
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and where
is the stat for games missed at 20 mil—you have to slide that in somewhere
anyway you had
22 hrs and 82 rbis.
from 05 to 09 centerfielders averaged 14 hrs and 61 rbis.
So even by your absurd standards he’s been well well above the average…and that’s after a horrible 05 and missing most of 09.
And if you want me to crunch the p-scores I can tell you how far above average he’s been too.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
that is my point
how much did they make? couldn’t the money have been spent on other guys? you cannot say the mets expected this from Beltran? Most CFs don’t put up the numbers he is capable of-so when you sign a guy like that you go light somewhere else (I don’t know if Omar thinks like that) -the mets did not get what they expected. and they still had crap at other positions
Yeah I know you're point was about the money
my point was that unless you’re putting a DH at centerfield there’s no more optimal way to spend the money. Unless you wanted them to break the bank on Carlos Lee or Vlad. Like I said go back, look at free agency and tell me what more optimal way of spending there could have been. Maybe Tex but Beltran’s contract didn’t, or at least shouldn’t have, prevented us from signing him, we spent near what he signed for on Perez, Delgado and K-rod that year.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
they signed him expecting a lot more
what he gave was better than a lot of average guys. if that is the way you want to look at it fine. It was a bad financial investment—-granted, in hindsight. They did not get value for their buck. that’s life. I can live with it. I just don’t want them to do it again with Reyes. Wright, yes, because in all likelihood, he will play the games and get numbers..
um what
no you’re completely wrong. They’ve nearly broken even on what they payed him in value. You can’t just state your opinion as fact and say that’s the end, please back up how they haven’t gotten back their investment. Even using your ridiculous hr, rbis there was literally no more optimal way they could have spent it. If you’re going to make these ridiculous statements please at least attempt to back them up with some evidence. Break down how it could have been better allocated given the players available and make up of the team.
Nevermind the fact you seem to be completing ignoring the context of the market. Look at the players given comparable contracts to Beltrans over the same time span and please tell me who has been better. Alfonso Soriano, Vlad, Carlos Lee, those were bad investments, Beltran is probably one of, if not the best, of the 100 million+ contracts given out the last 5 years. And that’s what value is based on.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
by Gina on Aug 29, 2010 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
So you think 120 million for 7 years--
three of which he hasn’t been able to perform effectively—- have basically been an example of a good investment, just because all of the other similar investments made at the time were bad? I don’t care what other teams failed at. See, your argument is what could they have done? I have already said I wanted him at the time. I am not killing them for that. I thought the signing was good. And I like him as a player, even though I think he is shot. But I am also saying they did not get a fair return for all that investment— stats or no stats. He hasn’t been on the field a good part of the time. And my only point is that I do not want them to sign Reyes to a long term contract, or anyone for that matter—I did not want 7 years for Santana, either.
Go to his FanGraphs page
scroll down to the bottom, and look at the last 3 columns.
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do these stats take into account all the time
that he missed? Because he got paid for that.
i am not talking about anything
but compensation, and spending money wisely
and how many times have I asked you
what would have been a wiser way to spend it? you’ve yet to explain. Beltran is one of the better 100+ million free agent contracts handed out the last ten years.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
If you read my post
I agree that they should have signed him. I am just saying that it turned out to be a mistake—not that it was a mistake at the time
and I'm saying how in the world
has it turned out to be a mistake? Do you not understand how free agent contracts work? You’re expecting to get break even value, that’s what we’re going to get. And I’m saying go ahead use hindsight, what would have been a better way to use the money
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
that could very well be true
and would probably prove my point about long term contracts
um the problem is your point
seems to not understand that you can’t work outside the realms of your market. If you want impact stars thats how you have to get them, even the most efficient smartest big market teams do it that way. It’s just how the league is and we operate within the confines of the league.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
well I should say they're counting stats
rather than rate stats, so time missed affects them heavily. Which should tell you how good Beltran has been to still rate so highly.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
Plate appearances are what I am talking abut.
nowhere near enough of them.
Really you only need to look at te last 2 columns
Basically the “dollars” column says is what salary he deserved based on his production and what the “salary” column says is what he was actually paid. Notice that the entries in the “dollars” column is greater than those in the “salary” column in all but one year.
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I love statistics
but I never swallow any system whole: political, religious, philosophical, whatever. Stats don’t tell me what a guys is going to do in specific situations. If they did, I would not watch. I prefer to reserve judgment for myself when it comes to the way this team manages its assets. Don’t discount intuition entirely. It makes the game much more enjoyable to watch.
no one discounts intuition
just forgive us if we’re not going to take you at your word that Beltran was a mistake because your gut said so.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
and if you never swallow them hole
why do you keep bringing up ones (like HR, RBIS and now PA’s) and then trying to switch when you’re proven wrong using them?
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
I really don't use them much
I just like runs. and I will never believe that what Beltran has given this team is worth 120 million. Just comparing it to other failures does not make it a success.
for the future
since I have already said several times that I liked geting Beltran—-I think they should have a limit on years. I guess 5, although I don’t even like that.
And you still haven't explained
in hindsight, a better way to have spent it.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
Hahaha
no problem. although I disagree. If you pay a contractor for 6 months work and he only shows up for four, you are not going to be happy. Especially if you do not get 6 months worth of results. (I know you like the metaphors)
Except that's not true
in baseball at all. In basically every free agent contract you expect surplus value on the front end to make up lack of value on the back end. No one hands out 7 year contracts expecting to get much of any value in the last 2-3 years, sometimes even less than that. It’s about what the value of those extra wins on the front end of the contract are worth to you.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
Which once again is what I mean by you
not seeming to understand the context of the MLB market.Can you name a 5-7 year contract where the player was worth it every year? Or do you just think every big contract in MLB is bad?
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
A Rod?
not this one, of course-this one is terrible. I do understand it, but it was reasonable to expect a player of Beltran’s youth to perform. The contracts you are talking about are given to older guys with that in mind-I know that teams don’t care. maybe they think they can trade them, but it is not good business.
As far as we know A-rods
only been worth it partially because of PED’s.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
I mean I can already tell you
Mauer isn’t going to be worth his contract in the last 2 years (hell with his back he might not be worth it in the last 4), Texiera isn’t, Sabathia isn’t, Johan isn’t, A-rod clearly isn’t, Jeter hasn’t been this year in the last year of is deal, Cabrera won’t be, Holliday won’t be, Ryan Howard won’t be worth it in the first year, and for whatever Lee and Crawford sign for I can almost guarantee they won’t be worth it the last 2-3 years.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
guy like Revis
wants what the other guy got even if the guy who gave it is a dope. basically it is the same all over.
except it's not the same at all
because given the market for CBS and the structure of NFL financially Asmougha’s contract is one of the worst ever. Given the market in MLB and the structure these contracts are perfectly reasonable. The Yankees will probably make back whatever they lost in value on Tex, Jeter and Sabathia in revenue gained from the post-season berths and the WS wins. Same with the Cards and Holliday (not to mention the added bonus of making Pujols happy), and if we had been competent enough to bring in even average players in 08 and 07 we likely would have made it back in the revenue boosts from play-off berths…or even if we’d been competent enough to just fucking use Bell and Lindstrom in 06 we likely would have made it back with the revenue boost from a world series win. There’s nothing dopey about it.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
you have to remember that
Bell and Lidstrom both kinda sucked back then
Not entirely
I’m not going to look up their stats, but they were horribly misused by management.
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Except SP wasn't the problem
it was none of our relievers being able to get out So Taguchi and a defensive catcher in the 8th and 9th innings. Would we have been better off with those 2? Obviously, but at the end that’s not what did us in.
Plus all that’s neither here nor there, the point is the money lost on the back ends of the contracts is more than made up for in the revenue gained from attendance/post season and WS rings. Which is why they’re perfectly reasonable contracts.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
see
this is where using stats helps you. Bell didn’t suck at all in 2006, he was just unlucky in the extremely short sample sizes we gave him. If you go to his fangraphs page you’ll see his xFIP in 06 predicted exactly what would happen once he was given a real chance…and that’s exactly what happened. The problem was we kept yanking him up and down and not giving him any real chance.
Bell’s page
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
Those xFIP's... Wow
04: 2.86
05: 3.39
06: 3.14
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so you saw bell's appearances
and thought they were okay? I know they did not fell Lidstrom could throw strikes consistently
Lindstrom struck out 11 batters per 9
and they didn’t think he could throw strike consistently…but thought Juan Vargas could?
I think you pretty much just proved my point on the problems with favoring your eyes over stats…how has that been working out for the mets? I mean are you saying you think you’re eyes were right about Bell, and the mets eyes were right about Vargas being better than Lindstrom?
Also I’m sure not being able to throw strikes had nothing to do with moving Lindstrom considering their favorite reclamation projects are guys with absolutely no control.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
I was not projecting Bell
I was watching him pitch. He did not do particularly well. They did jerk him up and down, and his command suffered. I wasn’t crazy about them giving up on a 96 mpph fast ball and a good curve, especially for the stiff they got. But i cannot say I looked at him and thought great. And I can buy pojections on major leaguers with some time, but not minor leaguers. So many never amount to anything, despite their stats.
yeah you seem to be confusing
projections and stats, projections aren’t based entirely on stats there are plenty of guys who put up monster stats in the minors who are projected to do nothing.
And projecting is exactly what major league teams have to do, especially when they’re trading players.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
I agree with that. I probably am-and I still say
that 2006 series would have been over in 5 if Pedo and El Duque stayed healthy
Also Lindstrom didn't suck at all
he didn’t have a chance to suck, we never even used him and then traded him for scrap pieces despite being able to hit 100 and putting up a 3.76 ERA in AA ball that year.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
just think
all that money could have gone to Ryan Howard.
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
or it could have just stayed in Jeff
and Fred’s pockets while we watched .500 teams.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
in 3 of the years he played
he vastly outplayed his contract, in one he underperformed, in one he performed at the expected level until injured, and this year he was injured or just bad. I feel like the 3.5 spectacular seasons he has balance out the 2.5 bad ones (injured or below contract value). Its probably a wash. Averaged out over his contract, we probably got our moneys worth. The production was just concentrated in the middle seasons too much. I don’t think we overpaid even in retrospect, I just wish the production has been spread out more over the entire contract. He got us wins, and lots of them. Could he have given us more if healthy? of course. But that doesn’t mean he didn’t earn his contract. That said I hate 7 years contracts in general.
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes that's exactly what he did
given the MLB market. Which is what value is based on.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
his cost per win in those years
was way lower than other teams were paying.
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn't bother to give him the link before
but here it is now.
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the math works out to be pretty much a wash
he was a beast for a few years.
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you really judging him by RBI?
And he isn’t a home run hitter. He’s a solid all around hitter who walks a lot, hits doubles, runs the bases efficiently and plays gold glove caliber defense. Do you know how much that is worth?
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by Steve Schreiber on Aug 29, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
also because reasonably
there’s really no way you can get better by trading 5-6 WAR players, because 1. it’s unlikely you’ll get anything near that value back and 2. Even if you trade 1 5 WAR player for 4 2 WAR players you’re having to spread the value over too many roster spots. When you can keep the 5 WAR player and likely pay for 3 2 WAR players.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
I present to you
this year’s San Diego Padres. The 1962 Dodgers. The 1969 mets. And other entries. I happen to agree with Joel Sherman. These are notmain guys, but complementary guys. They are valuable. They are expendable at the right price. As long as Omar does not set the price.
I don't know what that has to do with anything
main or not they’re 5-6 WAR players.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
adrian gonzales and Chase Headley
are between 4 and 5, thats the best they’ve got
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
well they're both on pace for 5-6
and Latos is on pace for 4.5despite having his innings heavily limited.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
There entire pitching staff is ridiculous
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true, i think Headley will fall just short of 5
Latos is on pace for 4.5, but with the limit one or two bad starts could hurt that projection
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
i was not talking about pitchers.
I did not think Headley was doing that well.
i was surprised as well
knew he was good but 4.1 WAR is pretty impressive
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I imagine it's because WAR is park adjusted
and without the park adjustment all the padres numbers look ugly.
sadly ours are ugly even with the adjustment
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
but why were you not talkng about pitchers
they’re as much a reason for the Padres success as their hitters.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
yeah but you brought up the padres as
an example, I assume because of their record…which is in large part because of their pitchers. And because of not giving over 900 PA’s to sub 1 WAR players.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
yup
it was just to show that you don’t need everyday sluggers to win
I don't lay this season on our SPs
and BPs are a crapshoot. I believe we need a better offensive structure
I agree
but I don’t see what Wright and Reyes have to do with that. I think the problem is more paying for Bay rather than spending extra for Holliday or waiting for Crawford, who would fit this park perfectly. the lolcontract to Castillo of course and then playing Ruben Tejada for reasons no one will ever understand. Barajas, Frenchy, a barely league average hitter at first base. those are the problems with the offense
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
I think the better question would be
how many 1 WAR or less players do they have accounting for 1000+ PA’s?
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
by Gina on Aug 29, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So you think all this team needs is an anti-biotic
and I think it needs a barium enema. We’ll agree to disagree
now folks, no bickering over the doo doo team
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Aug 29, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
yes, chicken doo-doo
I am trying tobe nice. In fact, the accent should be on the “chicken” part.
There couldn't be a more true statement
on the internet than this one.
I found where the poll would be but it says
“Data is unavailable at this time.
Please try again later.”
Consequences will never be the same.
OMG KEVIN I LUUUUUUUUUUV THAT BRACELET U R WEARIN!!! WHERE U GET IT????
Consequences will never be the same.
by NetsMets4Life on Aug 29, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
OLIVER PEREZ IS A JOKER
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
that's Perez' stance
it’s “not fair.”
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Aug 29, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
he blows our minds
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Aug 29, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
fixed
OLIVER PEREZ IS A JOKER
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Mex: Oliver's comments are "unappropriate"
damn skippy
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Aug 29, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Me talk Engllish bad...
That’s unpossible.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 29, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
...
Consequences will never be the same.
by NetsMets4Life on Aug 29, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Hanley's die job chemicals seeping into his fat lazy head
left game with lightheadedness
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
well when the space your brain is supposed to exist in
is just a void space, it certainly lightens the head
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
please Ollie hasn't forced them to do anything
this is entirely on the front office/wilpons.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
Damn Thole crushed that
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 2:57 PM EDT reply actions
THOLEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!
How about an Orange Monster at Citi Field for Bay?
by Mets-Suns-Texans on Aug 29, 2010 2:57 PM EDT reply actions
we're not scoring again this season
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
the monsta is out of the cage!!!
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
And yes
I will be post this for each and every Thole HR.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Josh Byrnes/Chip Hale as Mets 2011 GM/Manager.
so we'll see it 5-7 times per year?
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Dickey is our 3rd best hitter
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
how about the group that first guessed him?
once again anyone with access to google could have seen suckage coming.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
by Gina on Aug 29, 2010 3:00 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
guess is too strong a word for the mental process omar used
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Aug 29, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
in fact here is the fMRI scan of Omar making the decision to resign Ollie to 3/36 with no other team even remotely interested
note lack of activity
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Aug 29, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
pfft
its clearly sarcoidosis
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
i lobby
it’s the mumbles
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Aug 29, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
...
Consequences will never be the same.
by NetsMets4Life on Aug 29, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
With all due repect, Oliver Perez's rear end should meet my rake.
Consequences will never be the same.
Or this guy's foot...
The one and only mistermet on teh Interwebz!
by Steve Schreiber on Aug 29, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
or this guy's head
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Aug 29, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
did i just get internet stuffed? there should be a pic of Asston Kutcher there
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Aug 29, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Bud Norris Facts
he has given up 2 hits to our pitcher
he is out of the game
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
But we are talkin Dickey here.
Consequences will never be the same.
by NetsMets4Life on Aug 29, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
WIth Angel Pagan batting, R.A Dickey steals (1) second base.
How about an Orange Monster at Citi Field for Bay?
by Mets-Suns-Texans on Aug 29, 2010 3:01 PM EDT reply actions
Damn it's been a while wince I have been in a game thread
Is gustavo chacin really pitching for Houston? I haven’t heard at name anise his rookie year in 05 or 06
by MetsKnicksRutgers on Aug 29, 2010 3:08 PM EDT reply actions
Wow
Maybe the voting community isn’t as dumb as we thought…
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In lobby for Josh Byrnes/Chip Hale as Mets 2011 GM/Manager.
shit i missed it
what was the result?
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Aug 29, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
dammit what did it say?
Consequences will never be the same.
by NetsMets4Life on Aug 29, 2010 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Huge majority for "neither"
With the next highest for “Reyes” but IIRC it was only at like 26%
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im thoroughly impressed
i expected the worst
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah but 78% of metsfans
think omar should trade Wright FOR Reyes.
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Aug 29, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I honestly find those numbers really refreshing.
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this is somewhat a relief
Consequences will never be the same.
by NetsMets4Life on Aug 29, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
nobody will say it
but, again, he did not run hard
Serious question
The Astros are completely out of the race, they are down 4 runs and are terrible. Why are they bringing in the lefty here?
gotta keep playing the game
even if there aren’t postseason ramifications
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
The Mets are completely out of the race, up 4 runs, and are terrible,
Why do they start Jeff Francoeur every day?
(Same Question)
gangsta
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
what was he up to?
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
i'm ok with pulling him then
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Really?
he’s a knuckballer who doesn’t have a major tendon in his arm. I think he’d be ok throwing 120 pitches…
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there are lots of muscles, joints, and tendons in the arm
besides the UCL. He can still injure any of those.
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
and he throws a mid 80s fastball
so its not like its 100% pitches in the 60 MPH range
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah but you're forgetting the most important rule of baseball
if Jerry thinks it’s a good idea, do the opposite.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
Does anyone know
how much stress throwing a knuckleball puts on the elbow. I would assume that its way less than a slider or a curveball.
I assume there's less torque
thus less stress
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you've still got shoulder, and all the arm muscles, plus the leg muscles that go into throwing a pitch
There are a lot of moving parts, not just an elbow. I’m not saying a knuckler isn’t a safer bet to go 120 pitches, but that doesn’t mean its totally safe, or a great idea.
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree
Just wondering on injuries. Also throwing a pitch at 80 mph is just as hard as at 95 if that’s as hard as you throw.
exactly, he's still making out his physical capabilities over and over again
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
The whole 100 pitch thing is arbitrary
There’s no reason a 30+ y.o. knuckleballer (who also happens to lack a major arm ligament) shouldn’t be able to routinely throw 110+ pitches.
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I hate the 100 pitch thing
I just watched the 2003 MLB yearbook and they still propagate the theory that Pedro sucked after 100 pitches in the video. Why hasn’t anyone ever looked at the statistics?
Another reason why I like Nolan Ryan so much
He a (probably the only) proponent of individualized pitch counts.
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The problem with this
is it is difficult to know a priori how many pitches any pitcher can throw before they risk serious injury. There are way too many variables to predict, so they’re going to base it on their best guess based on mechanics. This could end poorly for some guys and work great for others
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Very true
but it’s just as good as a blanket 100 pitch count that still see’s tons of guys get hurt and need TJ. Ever think that lack of arm strength could actually be part of the overall problem?
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dont you think Nolan Ryan
has seen his fair share of pitchers…from the very very good to the very very bad over the course of his career?
Just me
but I would like to see some scientific proof that throwing a lot of pitches can cause an injury. Seems to me that you can get hurt on pitch 13 as easily as pitch 115. Seriously how many pitchers do we see suffer an injury in the 9th inning?
I agree with you
I think the 100 pitch thing is crap. I think the joba rules thing is crap as well.
Its all about GM’s and managers trying to CYA. You see now with strasberg. Now their GM and manager can say to the press
“well we did everything we can” its all PR bullshit.
I"m not arguing the 100 pitch thing makes sense
it’s just an arbitrary standard. But it has at least been tested and in most cases pitchers can tolerate that workload repeatedly. Until we find a way to specifically figure out how many pitches is safe for a given pitcher, we’re better off with the 100 than letting a pitcher throw until they can’t throw anymore every game.
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
And this is where Nolan Ryan's philosophy comes in
He’s implementing a system wide change, not just to the Rangers.
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I'm just not sure they're actually resorting to the medical technology
required to make these kinds of determinations. My worry is it will be based more on empirical observation. You can have the players train to throw more pitches, but unless they’re regularly checking them VIA MRIs after these sessions to figure out how many pitches they can throw while avoiding significant damage to their arms, it’s all guesswork.
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
you can turn wrong on any pitch and injure yourself instantly
but every pitcher sustains some small level of “injury” on each pitch. If you let enough of these mini-injuries build up, the odds of a larger failure become higher.
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
he can see a billion pitchers
but there are a million factors he can’t know just by looking at a player pitch which dictate their injury risks. I’m not saying the 100 pitch limit is smart, but I don’t think Nolan hs the medical or physical knowledge required to determine what players are safely capable of doing in an educated manner.
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
He's not saying
“this guy has to throw this many # of pitches every start”. He’s hiring knowledgeable people to help the players in that system build arms strength and determine their optimal pitch count.
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but if you're determining it emprically by having them throw as many as they can
without knowing and monitoring the long term effects of their pitch counts increasing in a measurable way, its just them guessing in the dark anyway.
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
But saying 100 pitches is everyone's max
is just as much guesswork. Nolan’s system might be aggressive (some might even say too aggressive) but any system that emphasizes arm strength (long toss is a perfect example of how to increase arm strength without a huge numbers of pitches) and an individualized approach is a step forward in my book.
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I agree the 100 is arbitrary
but it is at least established as safe for most arms. I don’t disagree a program to increase arm strength could decrease injuries, but Nolan was somewhat of a physiological freak. Most bodies, even when extensively trained, couldn’t take the kind of strain he put on himself. You can build muscle, you can’t build tendon or ligament or cartiledge. These will always vary from one pitcher to the next, and protecting these things are arguably more important than muscle. I just don’t know if they’re going to have the kind of constant monitoring in place that a pitching regimen like the one he’s suggesting should require.
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe there will be, maybe there won't
We’ll have to wait and see. But I like the idea.
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I like the idea
I really worry about the execution
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
done incorretly they're going to have a few spectacular pitchers
but they’re going to destroy the careers of a bunch.
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
lacking a major arm ligament
just means that stress has to go somewhere else. simple energy balance. the 100 pitch thing is stupid, but i think its equally stupid to try to have your knuckler throw a ton more pitches than anyone else. They have fewer elbow injuries, but that doesn’t mean they’re somehow immune to all the other injuries that can be incurred by a pitcher.
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah so why risk hurting a guy we're probalby gonna want around next year
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I guy can also get hurt throwing 10 pitches
or throwing a crumpled piece of paper into the trash…
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this is true
but the odds are much lower. Continuously stressing any connective tissue over and over without giving it time to heal increases the chances of that tissue failing. Every pitch creates some micro-tears in the muscle fiber which weakens it slightly. As long as you don’t accumulate too much damage, it heals regularly between starts. If you do too much damage, it can’t all heal, and begins to accumulate, until it eventually fails.
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
If I were the GM, I would issue a team-wide memo saying
“All pitchers are forbidden to throw crumpled piece of paper into the trash”. Their wives wouldn’t be too happy to know they can’t no longer help at home, taking the trash out because I said so.
It's supposedly way less stressful
Look at how long Wakefield’s and Niekro’s careers have been.
Dickey has really turned a corner as a pitcher this year and there’s hope that he can pitch another 5 years, cheaply, on the Mets.
by TheBigStapler on Aug 29, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Jerry
is a genius. Gotta give him credit for that
How about an Orange Monster at Citi Field for Bay?
by Mets-Suns-Texans on Aug 29, 2010 3:30 PM EDT reply actions
Whenever a manager lets a pitcher start an inning
…but then yanks him after a leadoff single…you know that that manager is a bad manager.
That is a huge pet peeve of mine
and a common move of jerry’s.
tend to agree with that assessment
they should either not start the inning, or be given as much room as you can afford them to get out of trouble.
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
the Ironclad Bay Defense
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
i can't wait for football season
I need something to break this addiction.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
Sidenote
I am trying to download dropbox so that I can sync my phone files with my computer. It simply stalls out every single time I try to install on my PC. Anyone know why?
Happy birthday Hank White!
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Afternoon, all
I’m a little late, I know.
Pitching coach Dan Warthen said, "He literally has a rubber arm," before he agreed figuratively was the appropriate adverb.
Hey you guys wanna see something hilarious
The mets have had 4895 PA’s total this year.
1695 of them have been worth a whopping: -0.1 WAR…and that includes Barajas and Castillo being worth .6 WAR each and Blanco worth .4 WAR.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
Francoeur's bat = 12.2 runs below average
Tejada = 12.8 runs below average
Cora = 9 runs below
Rod = 7 runs below
PIITB!
Yay.
Pitching coach Dan Warthen said, "He literally has a rubber arm," before he agreed figuratively was the appropriate adverb.
hooray we're better than Houston
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 3:56 PM EDT reply actions
and thats all we can ask for
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by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Where are we
in regards to having a protected first round pick next year?
Worse off then yesterday
that’s for sure.
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It really isn't going to matter with our payroll
But I am still holding out hope of Cliff Lee.
Did Jerry just admit
he manages to the whims of the MSM?
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I try to avoid the postgame press conferences
it keeps my blood pressure down
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Me too
i just happened to leave it on and during Jerry’s presser some reporter asked if he had any thought of a squeeze play with RA. Jerry basically said, “well, it ‘s umm, always in, ummm, the back of your head, but, ummm, but to do that would be, ummmm, difficult because, ummmmm, I’d get run out of town.”
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yes, that would be the reason we want to run him out of town...
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
this remind me of a Beetle Bailey joke--
where Lieutenant Fuzz finds out how General Halftrack makes key decisions—a “yes”/“No” wheel spin-thing lol
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
by feslenraster on Aug 29, 2010 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions
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