Mets 5, Astros 1: Dickey Stifles Houston, Offense Does Things That Contribute To Winning
by Eric Simon on Aug 29, 2010 4:02 PM EDT
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R.A. Dickey was rock solid through seven-plus innings, allowing just six hits and a run while walking and striking out a pair apiece. The league's worst post-All-Star-break offense exploded for five runs, all against Astros starter Bud Norris.
The Mets loaded the bases with none out in the second, but Luis Hernandez struck out on three pitches to bring everyday hero Dickey to the plate. Dickey surprised nobody by singling to center, bringing home David Wright and Ike Davis with the first runs of the game. Angel Pagan followed with an RBI groundout to second, and Castillo blooped (what else) a single to center to chase home Dickey with the inning's fourth run.
The Mets tallied their fifth and final run in the sixth on a Josh Thole solo shot off the Pepsi facade in right field, his second home run of the season.
Bobby Parnell scattered a couple of hits in a scoreless eighth and Hisanori Takhashi closed things down in the ninth. The Mets spike back up to 65-65, and for the 26th straight game are no further than one game above or below .500. That's the sort of stunningly consistent mediocrity that only $140 million can buy you.
Dickey accomplished that rare feat of accruing both the highest pitching and batting WPA in the same game.
The Mets hop a flight bound for Atlanta to being a four-game series with the first-place Braves beginning on Monday.
Poem by Howard Megdal
I see how this goes, we know the story
Mound phenom takes bat and gets all the glory
Like Ruth, Dickey from pitching will soon alight
And land, batting cleanup, as slugger in right
SB Nation Coverage
* Traditional Recap
* Boxscore
* Amazin' Avenue Gamethread
* The Crawfish Boxes Gamethread
Win Probability Added
Big winners: R.A. Dickey (pitching), +21.6% WPA, R.A. Dickey (batting), +13.8% WPA
Big losers: Luis Hernandez, -8.3% WPA, Carlos Beltran, -4.9% WPA
Teh aw3s0mest play: Dickey two-run single in second, +14.8% WPA
Teh sux0rest play: Hernandez strikeout with bases loaded and none out in second, -6.7% WPA
Total pitcher WPA: +27.4% WPA
Total batter WPA: +22.6% WPA
GWRBI!: R.A. Dickey
Game Thread Roll Call
Nice job by KeithsMoustache; his effort in the game thread embiggens us all.
| Num | Name | # of Posts |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | KeithsMoustache | 107 |
| 2 | jdon | 98 |
| 3 | Gina | 88 |
| 4 | garik16 | 47 |
| 5 | Michkin | 46 |
| 6 | Ogre39666 | 42 |
| 7 | itsmetsforme | 33 |
| 8 | NetsMets4Life | 26 |
| 9 | Joshuah | 21 |
| 10 | rcnt123 | 11 |
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Comments
so this dickey guy, not bad, eh?
oh hey look, it’s enrico palazzo!
HELLO HELLO MR WILPON... BUY THAT MANSION. WE DONT NEED A CONDO.
consistent start after consistent start
I can’t ask for anything more from a SP. hje has been a great signing, I have to give Omar credit for this 1, after destroying him for everything else he has done wrong.
Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all
yea remember though, omar makes about 50 of these signing a year, eventually one is going to pan out… it’s time we stop the whole, lightning in a bottle thing and sign legit players…
Dickey is great though, gotta love the guy…
Exactly right....
The monkey will eventually hit the Microsoft stock on the dartboard, if he throws the darts enough times.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 29, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
oh I agree
but if I am going to complain about the bad signing, I have to give credit for the good ONE.
Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all
by Rickfansince76 on Aug 29, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
He signed Dickey kinda by mistake.
There was an article that went around recently (last week?) where Omar himself said that Dickey was a total surprise. Plus by the manner they brought him up I think they screwed the pooch somehow. I forget how (someone with better memory want to fill me in?—I think it was something to do wtih arbitration) but if they had waitied a week and change I think we could have kept him longer.
So even our moments of success are merely fortuitous and tinged with the taint of fail. That said, Dickey himself is 100% win.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 29, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
then he needs to make more mistakes
Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all
by Rickfansince76 on Aug 29, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
The problem is that for every one Dickey...
There is more than one our opening day roster (easier than typing all the names). Omar’s BA vis a vis free agent signings this year is pretty terrible.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 29, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Said another way
The Dickey’s are nice, but they don’t make up for the Castillo’s or the Perez’s, not to mention the Matthew’s or the Jacob’s. I guess a little consistency from Omar would be nice, and by that I mean consistently good.
by George_Sloan on Aug 29, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Plus the hitting
Guess he got tired of waiting for the Mets offense.
by George_Sloan on Aug 29, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
yea we need a better draft spot than them
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 29, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
We have to get to 3rd before we can worry about 1st
We have the chance to make up some ground on Atlanta come Monday.
by George_Sloan on Aug 29, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I see what you mean though
6 runs scored in the last 2 innings, another walk-off homer by McCann. I would say the Braves are lucky, but if they are, they are getting lucky a lot lately.
by George_Sloan on Aug 29, 2010 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey
Still travelling so missing the games (in the Windy City today) – so a) who is Luis Hernandez and b) why is he playing!?
One of Omar's reclaimation projects
signed as a FA, he is up because of Reyes oblique strain. Like a ,240 hitter in about 250 AB. Not really a prospect, more of a roster filler, IMO.
Safe travels.
by George_Sloan on Aug 29, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Ah cool
thanks, I’d completely missed that. Presumably it’s him because Turner (?) got injured for the season? I came to Chicago once seven years ago and this time it seems a lot more impressive and lively. Weird. Great place. Off to D.C. tonight.
Bob Ojeda
doesn’t want Thole batting second cause he’ll….
…wait for it…
…wait for it….
CLOG THE BASEZ~!
I miss FJM more and more everyday.
by Jeffrey Paternostro on Aug 29, 2010 5:26 PM EDT reply actions
I posted this in the game thread near the end but I'll post it in here too, because everyone needs the lulz
The mets have had 4895 PA’s total this year.
2021 of them have been worth a whopping: -0.1 WAR…and that includes Barajas, Blanco and Castillo combing for 1.6 WAR. (I just took all the below average hitters)
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
That's really awful
How much are the other 2874 worth?
"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage
by blueandorange4life on Aug 29, 2010 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions
well not including the pitching
(and as an aside that WAR includes defense and for a lot of those players if you took it out it would drop even more sadly.)
But the other 2496 has been worth 14.2 WAR,
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
Four game series with the Braves...
I remember looking at the schedule in late June, seeing this series, and thinking “ooooooh, potentially meaningful games in September.” Sigh. Silly me. I had not yet learned my lesson for this season.
Ya, but we can still be spoilers
That is always kind of fun, and I think the Phils will eventually overtake the Braves anyway.
by George_Sloan on Aug 29, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
but then we'll spoil our on draft pick
and lets just lay down like normal.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
And we'll give the Phils the brass ring...
Which is never a good thing.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 29, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Just my opinion, but I don't think the Phils really need our help
I think the Phils will run down the Braves anyway. Of course, I could be wrong, this season has been a little unpredictable, the Phils get swept by the Astros at home and then sweep the Padres on the road. Who the heck knows what will happen.
by George_Sloan on Aug 29, 2010 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually, me too
I just don’t think it will happen. Of course, I am wrong more than I am right, so you still have a chance :-)
by George_Sloan on Aug 29, 2010 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope the Braves run away with it...
Give Bobby Cox a good sendoff, and hire newly unemplyed Jerry Manuel.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 29, 2010 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
LOL
I am not sure Jerry will be able to get a job managing a 7-11. The Braves may be aiming too high, but it would certainly screw them up for years.
by George_Sloan on Aug 29, 2010 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I prefer South Philly to be a ghost town in October save for Sunday afternoons.
Proud supporter of a New York baseball team and a Boston football team. Yeah, deal with it!
How is that???
Protected pick does not prevent you from drafting and signing garbage. It only guarantees you a similar pick (+1) if you don’t sign the garbage. Once the pick is signed, the protection is gone.
by George_Sloan on Aug 29, 2010 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions
i assumed he meant signing garbage in the off-season and losing the pick
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
Omar Actually Drafts Well
When it comes to free agent signings, Omar has been a complete train wreck. Our draft picks under Omar, however, have actually been respectable.
How so?
People keep saying this, but it doesn’t bear out when you look at it.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 29, 2010 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions
it actually does
when you account for not being able to go over slot and the picks sacrificed for signing type A’s. He’s only had 4 first round picks, 3 of them were Mike Pelfrey, Ike Davis and Reese Havens who all project to be major leaguers, if Havens can stay healthy. He’s also drafted Jon Niese, Duda, Murphy, Nick Evans, Mulvey (who was part of the Santana package) they’re obviously not impressive names but considering the lack of high picks the number of guys who project to at least be average and/or above replacement level major leaguers is actually really good, considering the high rate at which draft picks never even make the majors. the bigger problem has been the lack of budget has forced them to consistently take non impact type players in the draft and guys who are likely to sign. The fact we’ve had so many “low upside guys” turn out useful is actually impressive.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
Lack of budget?
What lack of budget? If by that you mean overspending on everything so pennies have to be pinched elsewhere, ok. The argument that you don’t have many picks because you set things up that way fails to recognize the totality of the job. You can’t set yourself up for failure and then when you fail say “but it was preordained.”
Look at the list above. You have 2 guys the team has deemed not MLB worthy, rightly or wrongly (Who? and Murphy). Davis is still a huge if (sorry puppy), and I think we can all say that Neise and Pelfrey have turned out well. Hardly a muderer’s row of support for the idea that he rocks the draft. Of course a lot of his drafting is still a work in progress and it may take a number of years before we can say whether he was average, or above or below, depending on how some of the younger guys turn out. In the same vein, I’m not going to give credit, even partial credit, for guys like Duda who have only proven that they can tear it up for a period in the minors. I’ver seen too many guys who have killed in AAA but for whatever reason never were a liability in the majors. The MLB drafts goes many more rounds than most sports and there is a far greater opportunity to pick the diamonds in the rough. Yet I see a team with little solid depth.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 29, 2010 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions
?
no its the wilpons refusal to go over slot. Which doesn’t have to do with the budget it has to do with them apparently not wanting to make Bug Selig angry for whatever reason.
And you realize if you don’t give credit for guys like Duda you can’t give credit to similar guys from other organizations? i think you have to realize you have to look at mlb drafting as a whole. If you go through every team in the same time period, you’re not going to find many guys produced much better what I listed, especially if you exclude first round picks from most years.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
Over Slot
Teams can go over slot by drafting players not thought to be signable late in the draft.
For example, Joe Schmoe is a talented player who is committed to playing at Margaritaville University. He would normally be a mid first round draft pick, but teams pass on him because they think that he won’t sign. In the 40th round, Mr. Schmoe is drafted. MLB recommends that his signing bonus should be $19.98 and an extra value meal based. He is offered a $1million bonus. Joe Schmoe decides that college can wait, signs, and a team just went almost $1 million over slot. A team just turned a 40th round draft pick into a first round draft pick.
Actually, Evans was drafted in 2004 when Jim Duquette was still around
so you can’t give Omar credit for him.
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by Steve Schreiber on Aug 29, 2010 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions
oh okay
ftr I don’t think Omar’s a great drafter, but I think we’ve probably been around middle of the pack or slightly above given not going over slot.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
Maybe it's a language thing, but for me...
“Well” =/= “average.”
Well is at least above average. Average is average.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 29, 2010 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Especially...
When it is user to counter claims of failure in other areas. With a player who has no power, you might say “yeah, but he makes contact well.” If that’s going to be a defense, he had better make contact and get on base better than average. Otherwise, he’s below average overall (everything else being equal).
by MookieTheCat on Aug 29, 2010 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions
well I do think he's above average
like I said above I don’t think you’re taking into account the average MLB teams draft record the way you’re judging him. Producing as many decent serviceable players as we have isn’t anywhere near the norm, especially on such a nonexistent draft budget.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
Ok. I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt on this...
But do you have info on other teams? Show me something that shows how many guys oh, let’s say, the White Sox or Dodgers have (these in my mind being good comparisons due to big markets and not being the Yankees). In the words of Jessica Fletcher, “I need evidence!”
This is because I’m still unimpressed with the list above for the following reason: each MLB roster has 25 guys, and each team has a bunch of guys of the Duda category (liked, but unproven on the MLB level) and a bunch of guys on the Evans/Murphy level (possibly major leaguers with some experience, but not a sure thing). For argument’s sake, let’s limit that number to 5, as that’s the number of Duda and Evans/Murphy type guys you list above. Omar’s had 5 years of drafts. So for each 5 years, a GM would have to average 7 guys to match your analysis of Omar. That adds up to about 1.4 guys a year drafted who would make your list above. Let’s double this because in fairness to Omar the past couple of years’ draftees are still too undeveloped to be evaluated, so it’s 2.8 per year. Counting the 25 guys on each roster plus your 5 extra guys, that would be 30 in the system. Since most players are drafted by someone (and I recognize the error in not subtracting from the total for the percentage who are signed but undrafted), it looks like it would be 10+ years of drafts before MLB could be populated by drafts. Since the average career is far shorter than 10 years (actually 5.6 years), where’d those other guys come from? I understand that this is scratch paper math, and has all kinds of error (including guys who sit in the minors for a long time), but something does not add up to me.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 30, 2010 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions
do you mean how many guys the dodgers have gotten to the ML
level? or just how many they’ve drafted who are good enough for their names to be somewhat known?
(I’m using the lists from BBreference on their drafts by year in case you want to double check)
In 2005 they failed to sign their top pick, Luke Hocheaver who’s with KC now, they also drafted Josh Bell who I know is a decent prospect but who they’ve since traded, I don’t see anyone else.
2006 Kershaw, and I don’t see anyone else
2007 Withrow but I’m not sure, given his struggles, if you’d consider him that impressive, he’s been kind of awful this year. No one else of note that I can see
2008. Ethan Martin, though he’s in low A ball so I don’t know if he counts, if he does then there’s multiple other mets who would too, he’s
and 2009 and 2010 are kind of pointless to look at. As far as I can tell no one from 08 on has made it to AA for them yet, but that’s probably because they draft high school heavy (where as we go college heavy)
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
Yeah I had to go through the same exercise...
With admittedly less knowledge of players in other orgs than you. It just seemed to me that there was no way to really evaluate who has done better without making a full-time job of it.
Any thoughts on my really bad attempt at math above?
by MookieTheCat on Aug 30, 2010 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions
for what its worth
the dodgers, and the white sox too actually, are both known for having virtually no draft budget despite being in big markets, like us.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
You think there's a correlation...
Between being in a market where you can sign big FAs and being restrictive with the draft? Seems intuitively reasonable.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 30, 2010 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions
I think it has more to do with Owners who are
both shortsighted and afraid to make Selig mad than the market they find themselves calling home.
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yeah supposedly a major reason we never
went over slot was because the Wilpons were afraid of Selig and wanted an all-star game in ciit… never mind the fact the Yankees got one and go over slot every year.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
Where'd you hear this Selig thing?
Believe me, I don’t doubt it as it sounds just like something they would do. But I’m curious as to the source.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 30, 2010 1:40 AM EDT up reply actions
It was from an interview
metsblog did with Jim Callis 2 years ago, I found the original metsblog post but the link to the interview is dead.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
I wish I was young again...
And could remember things like this. How the f did you remember that? Astounding.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 30, 2010 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions
You're a lawyer (who knows 2 states worth of laws)
you have enough stuff in your head taking up space lol.
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well I just remembered I'd read it on metsblog
so I just googled selig, wilpons overslot and metsblog
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
Give it a decade...
Once you start losing your glasses on your forehead, talk to me. :P I can’t remember anything more than 2 weeks old. You get to the point where your life is like Memento.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 30, 2010 1:53 AM EDT up reply actions
I think I recently got to the point
where my head is full. It kind of really sucks.
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What would make Selig inherently angry by oversloting?
Lemme make sure I understand what overslotting is first: The MLB “recommends” how much a draftee should be signed by. Overslotting is when you sign that draftee for more than what the MLB says he should be signed for/is worth/whatever. Why would the commish get angry with that?
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Aug 30, 2010 1:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Ummmmmm....
Two words (or 3, depending on your take on grammar): Antitrust exemption.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 30, 2010 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Basically baseball has the unique ability...
To act as a single entity with multiple organizations within it. Outside of collective bargaining, in the world outside baseball an industry generally cannot actively set wages as an industry (it’s illegal collusion, not unlike setting prices). But baseball is the exception, and it gives the commissioner the ability to regulate things like this as an industry as a whole.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 30, 2010 1:49 AM EDT up reply actions
You're basically challenging the Commisioner's Office's authority.
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I'm gonna respond below, cause the little reply boxes get all messy and annoy me.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Aug 30, 2010 1:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Laying down is never good
They may suck, but at least they can play hard till the end. That is all we have left.
And it is not like we will get a top 5 pick anyway.
by George_Sloan on Aug 29, 2010 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd rather have a protected pick and finish with 78 wins
than finish with 82 wins and without a protected pick.
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exactly
cause giving up the 16th pick for ted lly would kind of suck
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
If the season ended today, we would get the 13th pick
If I counted correctly. So we are kind of on the bubble.
by George_Sloan on Aug 29, 2010 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I think that is the first 15 picks
and that would be nice, I think they will get there anyway. They do suck, so they will lose their share of games. I personally find it hard to be a fan of a team that doesn’t even try. To me that is even a bigger sin than sucking. Even now, I don’t want the Mets to lose, but I am in touch with reality enough to realize they probably will.
by George_Sloan on Aug 29, 2010 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions
well i don't mean I literally want them to lay down
just to keep doing what they’re doing
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
I do sense in myself
a perverted wish for the to lose. But only because it would take an anvil on the head of the Wontpons for them to get rid of Omar, and they must do this.
I'd rather be spoilers
I think Omar will screw up the pick we do get anyway
"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage
by blueandorange4life on Aug 29, 2010 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Lets hope Omar is not here to make that pick
But I agree with you, at least then we can feel like this was not a wasted season and we accomplished something. It is not guaranteed that the pick will amount to anything anyway (see Lastings Milledge, Phil Humber).
by George_Sloan on Aug 29, 2010 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions
but what does winning 4-5 more games amount too?
I imagine a draft pick has a better chance of amounting to something than 4 meaningless games.
Not to mention under Omar our first round picks have been decent.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
IMO, the draft has always been a crapshoot
I really don’t get all that excited about the draft, it seems rather random to me, As an example Albert Pujols was a 13th round draft pick. Francoeur was a 1st round draft pick. Who would you rather have?
If you can win now, you win now and screw the draft. Not that we have a chance of winning, but I wouldn’t manage a team for a draft pick. Just my opinion.
by George_Sloan on Aug 29, 2010 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions
um but you kind of just made my point
we have no chance of winning anything. what exactly are we winning now? we’re not talking about missing a play-off spot for a higher pick. we’re talking about games that literally mean nothing.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
No I didn't
Read it again, I said managing a team to get a draft pick is stupid, IMO. Good teams don’t worry about things like that (was was the last time the Yankees had a high draft pick). They spend their time worrying about winning. The Royals and the Pirates always have a high draft pick, and where the heck are they.
by George_Sloan on Aug 29, 2010 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions
???
no I mean you made my point when you said “not that we have a chance of winning”.
good teams like the yankees 1. spend on the draft so technically they have high draft picks every year since they go overslot to sign top talent and 2. they’re good teams, we’re not a good team. If you look at most of the good teams right now, they’re good because of great drafting and a bunch of high picks (Padres, Reds, White Sox, Rangers). And the best young players come from the first round.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
even the yankees core player the last 20 years
has been Derek Jeter…who they drafted 6th overall. Good teams are good generally because they draft well and find and develop young talent. Where else are we going to get premier young talent if not the draft?
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
20 Years Ago :-)
That’s quite a while ago, don’t you think? Probably has little to do with all the games they have won in the last 10 years.
by George_Sloan on Aug 29, 2010 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions
um I think Jeter has a lot to do with all the games they've won
considering he’s been their best player which is kind of my point.
And I didn’t say you made my point as in my point was we should stop trying to win. I mean you made it as in these games mean nothing.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
I never said that either
When did I say the games meant nothing? I actually said the opposite. The games mean something, that is why you play them. You have to have something to accomplish, either winning or looking at prospects. You are the one saying “lay down”, and I am the one who is saying play hard.
I don’t know I would go so far as to say Jeter is the best player. He has had a little help, from some very good players.
by George_Sloan on Aug 29, 2010 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah he's had help
and he’s still been their best player. they’re not mutually exclusive.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
Ho do the games mean anything
when we have no chance of making the playoffs (or even falling just short like in years past)>
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*the ">" should be a "?"
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Lots of reasons
It is a bad habit to get into, you don’t play hard now, what makes you think they will play hard when it means something. If you are going to play the game, play it hard and play it to win. Or have something that you can point to as an accomplishment, say looking at young players. That is one reason. I can go on if you want, but I am starting to bore myself :-)
by George_Sloan on Aug 29, 2010 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions
except we're not looking at young players
unless Jesus Feliciano and Jeff Francoeur are young players. We’re running the same trash out there we’ve been running all year.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
Exactly
I think you have seen my posts complaining about that very topic. We suck. No argument there. I would rather see us play young players and I have been complaining about that for at least a month now.
You never really see me complaining about the young players, only the players like Castillo, Francoeur, Cora, Perez. I keep saying to DFA the lot.
But we still have some good players. We can and have won regardless of the garbage we run out there everyday.
by George_Sloan on Aug 29, 2010 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't want to jeopardize the players for next yr
pushing Santana, Niese, and Pelfry to 130 pitches to make sure we win the game is ludicrous.But when you have a manager looking at this season as do or die, that’s what your gonna get. He’s not going to play the young guys to get a look at what you got next year. He’s not going to experiment with Parnell in as closer. He’s gonna push the starters to go 8 innings no matter what the pitch count. Why? To try and save his ass. We should be looking at what we got for next yr.
Absolutely agree
They should all go on conservative pitch counts. In fact, I would even think you may want to skip some starts and take a look at guys like Gee and Mejia.
by George_Sloan on Aug 29, 2010 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Mejia shouldn't even be in Buffalo.
Gee? Absolutely. Del La Torre? Sure. Tobi Stoner? Hey, why not. But not Mejia.
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Rumor is that he will be called up
Specifically to replace Misch for a game or 2. I really don’t care if they do or not. They do seem to like him though, not sure if Omar or Jerry or both.
by George_Sloan on Aug 29, 2010 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, I know he's going to be called up
I just think it’s an incredibly stupid decision to promote a 20 year old with 70 innings pitched above High A-ball to start in the majors.
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No I didn't make you point & stop saying I did
Just because we don’t have a chance of winning doesn’t mean I said “we you stop trying to win games and focus on getting a good draft pick.”
by George_Sloan on Aug 29, 2010 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions
i mean if this was like the nfl I would agree.
but the difference between 78 wins and 82 wins is no where near as big as the difference between losing a first round pick and not losing one.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
Bad assumption I think
Seriously, even if you have the 16th pick, it doesn’t automatically mean you will lose it. Only if you don’t sign the player will you lose it.
I have admitted that it would be nice to get a 15 or better pick, but what I said was I wouldn’t do anything unnatural to help it along. You play the games, you play them hard and you do try to win, or at least accomplish something, like looking at prospects, If you want a good organization, that is the way you have to play it. Winning is not a switch you flick on and off.
by George_Sloan on Aug 29, 2010 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions
it has nothing to do with an assumption
it has to do with flexibility in the off-season. It’s a major question mark when it comes to signing type A’s. Protected or not protected is a big deal when it comes to deciding to sign one of the weaker type A’s. Guys like Felipe Lopez, Javy Vazquez, Kevin Correia, Adam Dunn all become a lot more interesting when you’re not looking at giving up your first round draft pick. No one’s talking about tanking to get a top 5 pick, just moving up 1-2 spots to get one that we won’t have to sacrifice if we want to improve the team.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
by Gina on Aug 29, 2010 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It seems as if you don't understand the way the draft works
The teams picking in the top half of the draft have their pick protected. Free agents are assigned rankings by Elias…Type A and B. Players falling into the A category cost the signing team a first rounder unless that pick is in the top half (i.e. protected). A lot of times, interesting players will fall into Type A status due to the archaic rules and stats it uses. The Mets have lost unprotected 1st rounders the past few years for guys like Carlos Beltran, Billy Wagner and Frankie Rodriguez (who’ve been good) and Moises Alou and Pedro Martinez, who’ve turned out to be not so good. Moises Alou was a bad decision but what made it worse was that we signed him and lost our top pick in the draft.
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by Steve Schreiber on Aug 29, 2010 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd swap Pedro and K-rod in your lists
also what made Alou even worse…we signed him before the deadline to offer arbitration, it’s entirely possible, maybe even likely, the Giants never offer him arbitration if we’d just waited, since he was like 50 and would have been highly paid. And we could have signed him without giving up anything.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
I meant that
just signing Alou in the first place was a bad decision. A 40 year old OFer who had trouble staying on the field in his 20’s and 30’s, not to mention the previous season or two is incredibly stupid, especially since there was no backup plan (and Endy Chavez is not an adequate backup plan). To make matters worse, not only did they sign him, but they also lost their first rounder on top of it due to stupidity (I forgot that they signed him before the arb deadline) and an unprotected first rounder. All in all, one of the (in my opinion) worst decisions in Omar’s time as Mets GM.
And, just to make sure you realized, my post above wasn’t directed towards you, Gina…I agree with everything you’re saying here.
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by Steve Schreiber on Aug 29, 2010 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Just so that it can hurt worse as I look over draft lists...
What year’s 1st rounder did they lose for Alou? Was it 06 or 07?
by MookieTheCat on Aug 29, 2010 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions
'Twas 07.
I want to say 22nd overall? They then used their supplemental first rounder on a certain
“ruff” reliever.
He really climbed the ladder fast and made a huge impact!
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by Steve Schreiber on Aug 29, 2010 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions
You mean this guy?
LOVE the fact that his page doesn’t exist on baseball reference, and that they are so nice as to point that out with a red link.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/bpv/index.php?title=Nathan_Vineyard&action=edit
by MookieTheCat on Aug 29, 2010 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Nope...that was a bad one too
I’m talking about the great Eddie Kunz taken #42 overall in the draft. Ugh.
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by Steve Schreiber on Aug 29, 2010 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL....
I was thinking it was a Kunz reference (I think the Ruff Rider thing tipped me off) but wanted to emphasize Vineyard as well as being firmly in Omar’s drafting HOF. Doing a little research on Vineyard, well damn. Apparently after shoulder surgery, he disappeared. Didn’t report, didn’t call the team, had his number disconnected. Weird.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 29, 2010 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh also, check out the 07 supp draft.
See it here. Now see the players who the picks were given in exchange for. It’s its own little HOF, just one of Mets players of the past 5 years.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 29, 2010 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions
That was one hell of an ugly draft for the Mets early on
With Kunz and Vineyard plus Rustich in the 2nd round, Stephen Clyne in the 3rd and the rush job they’ve done on Richard Lucas. It seems to have a bit more upside than it did at the beginning of this season with Duda and Lutz looking better and the potential of Carson, Gee and possibly Roy Merritt but beyond that…..yuck.
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by Steve Schreiber on Aug 29, 2010 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions
but I don't see how Vineyard is a bad pick
if you go back to reports after his debut scouts and prospect guys loved him and the pick and thought he had real possibility. Then he got injured and apparently fell out of love with baseball, I don’t see what you would have expected them do to differently.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
Ummmmm...
That’s the key to drafting. Anyone can read commercial scouting reports. And since everyone has access to essentially the same information via them, everyone would be average (efficient markets hypothesis in baseball form). What makes a good drafter is someone who either can recognize things others can’t or hires folks who can do that and trusts them. Not to hate on Vineyard, but they gave him nearly $700k and got a year and change in low A for it, with terrible stats except for Ks.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 29, 2010 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions
except he eidnd't have terrible stats
except for K’s, hence the use of FIP, using ERA to judge prospects is completely useless because the tlent around them varies so much. He had great k’s, great control, and kept the ball in the park, was only 18 with 3 polished pitches and had room to add velocity. Which is the makings of a really really good pitching prospect. What could they have done to predict he was going to retire?
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
eh Vineyard wasn't bad
he actually had an awesome debut, I don’t think they could have predicted he’d get injured and decided he hates baseball and retire.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
True
It was a bad result and not necessarily a bad pick (though you think they’d be able to detect something like this coming before it happened).
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by Steve Schreiber on Aug 29, 2010 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Awesome debut?
What on Earth are you talking about?
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=vineya001nat
by MookieTheCat on Aug 29, 2010 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh man
looks like he was placed on the Tony Bernazard “farm system from hell” fast track! Pitching at Savannah at 19 after a mediocre debut? Yikes.
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by Steve Schreiber on Aug 29, 2010 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions
he had a k/9 over 10
and a k/bb over 3. For an 18 year out of high school thats awesome. He had a FIP of 3.68. Then his shoulder blew up and he apparently just quit baseball.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
Yes he was good at strikeouts...
When he wasn’t getting shelled. Take a close look at his stats. He averaged a K per inning in his first year, but he had 7 starts, 9 appearances, and 27 innings. He pitched less than 4 innings a start, not even counting his relief appearances! First, the K thing is SSS, but even past that my guess is that he came in, pitched a few solid innings, and got shelled, in the GCL.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 29, 2010 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions
his second year
was when his shoulder blew up. Thats why he got shelled.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
Nah, I was talking about the 1st year...
A lot better than the 8 innings he pitched his first year, but giving up 10 hits and 3 walks a game isn’t exactly Cy Young territory either. That was his first year, in a rookie league, against other 18 year olds.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 29, 2010 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions
*first year in the first sentence should be second year
Now yer getting me all confused! :P
by MookieTheCat on Aug 29, 2010 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
3 walks a game for a prospect
is actually kind of excellent. Even in the major leagues look up the bb/9 numbers on fangraphs, most ML pitchers are in that same range. For a rookie out of high school to have a sub 3 bb/9 is actually really good. (Just for comparison Meija’s bb/9 now is like in the 4-5 range).
Ad yeah I know you’re talking about the second year, I’m talking about the fact he was injured in the second year.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
FYI
prospects who are that young are typically on very strict pitch counts. Juan Urbina and Akeel Morris have been throwing 3-4 innings at the most in the GCL this season. His hits
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by Steve Schreiber on Aug 29, 2010 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Damn
His hits against are likely high due to small sample size and stats such as those are typically of little important in rookie ball. The important stats at that age are just the basics…K’s and BB’s.
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by Steve Schreiber on Aug 29, 2010 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Incorrect.
Urbina has pitched 5+ innings in a vast majority of his starts this year. Of those he has pitches less, one was a 4.2 inning performance the first game of the season, one was a solid 3 innings his last start, and the other 2 have been games where he gave up 8 in 3 and 5 in 2.
As for Morris, you are right that he seems to have a low pitch count, but he is abnormally low for the team. Dotson, Tapia, Villasmil (though he is not really a rookie), Camaerna (also not a rookie and a reliever a lot, but goes long when he starts), Yanez (every start has gone 5 besides when he got shelled), etc.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 29, 2010 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions
And one more thing
while that’s one example if you look up research there’s no contest between the contribution of players from the first round and from later rounds. isnt even close.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
And the success rate of draft picks is not good
If you look at that same research. Like I said, it is a crap shoot.
by George_Sloan on Aug 29, 2010 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions
success rate in general isn't
but success rate of higher picks is clearly higher than of lower picks…and were exactly else do you think we’re going to get players from? They’re not going to fall out of the sky for us.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
Well, we can work on signing better FA
Just a thought.
by George_Sloan on Aug 29, 2010 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions
what FA's?
the free agent market is always inefficient and you’re always looking at barely breaking even. The Yankees are the only that’s built heavily through FA, and even their core players have generally been home grown. Unless you expect them to drop 100 million every time one of the few under 30 all-star types comes out FA’s aren’t going to make all that much of a difference.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
Most teams are all built the same way
You look at teams like the Yanks, Padres and Braves, and the Mets, they have 5 to 7 drafted players, and the rest of the team is built with FA and trades. We pretty much have the same number of FA as the Yanks. The Braves have less, but they still have 9 FA. It is impossible to have a team without FA anymore.
The problem isn’t that we don’t have enough home grown talent, the problem is with the rest of our team. Every FA we sign we overpay, and we probably shouldn’t have signed them in the first place.
by George_Sloan on Aug 29, 2010 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions
The thing is
how do you make trades for players if you don’t have prospects to trade? This is another reason why these high draft picks are so important. You can’t just slap together a ragtag group of 25 year old soft tossing righties and acquire a good player. You need those name prospects who can either make it to the bigs with your team or be dealt for somebody else.
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by Steve Schreiber on Aug 29, 2010 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions
The Yanks haven't had a top 15 pick in the last 15 years
And they seem to manage it. In fact all teams seem to manage with whatever draft picks they have. There were plenty of trades at the deadline this year, except for of course the Mets.
No one is saying not to have draft picks by the way. Sure you need them, and hopefully some of them will be good. But you won’t have 25 home grown players on your roster. That is not how rosters are built anymore.
by George_Sloan on Aug 29, 2010 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions
What helps the Yankees case
is that they will pay over slot for those bottom 15-picks.
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I am so tired
hearing the Wilpons cry about money. They have ruined this team. I personally don’t care what they spend anymore, just get us a competitive team. Their strategy was to build a contender via FA. We all see how well that worked out.
by George_Sloan on Aug 29, 2010 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions
hey manage because they pay overslot
…which I already said in a post way above. Which the Wilpons refuse to do. They basically have a top 10 pick every year because they pay for the best talent every year.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
Also i don't see how you're not getting
it’s not the 15 or above, it’s having a first round pick at all. If it’s protected we don’t have to worry about losing it.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
I get it
I just don’t care. A first round pick just doesn’t get me very excited. In other words, having the Mets lose so they can get a 1st round pick is stupid IMO. What would make me happy is having a competitive team show up most years. I am just getting fed up with losing.
by George_Sloan on Aug 30, 2010 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions
And one way to get a competitive team is through the draft
and not losing 1st rounders because of FA signings.
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We had had 10 1st round picks since 2000
Not sure one more will really help us.
by George_Sloan on Aug 30, 2010 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions
So we should give away all future 1st rounders because why?...
So what if we’ve had 10 1st round picks since 2000 that doesn’t make any difference.
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I think the point that he's making...
Is that a first rounder in baseball is not like one in football, basketball, or hockey. It’s much more of a crapshoot. I agree with this: look at how Strasburg went from superstar to big fat if in a matter of weeks. Being a Mets fan means knowing who Paul Wilson is. And that makes one skeptical of draft picks (among many other reasons).
by MookieTheCat on Aug 30, 2010 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah but with a first rounder
there’s a chance of getting a player, with no first rounder there’s no chance.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
I'm guessing George is old enough to remember the 80s.
Those teams were the product of a great farm system. When you see Frank Cashen on the 86 Mets video when he talks about his big FA signings, he discusses Ojeda and Teufel, and that’s it. Of course there were Carter and Mex who were picked up before, but a vast majority of that team was home-grown. I think my constant criticism of Omar and his draft history is that I saw a team that was fantastic and built from the ground up. Think about this: when Mookie—a fixture that no one thought was going anywhere—got hurt in spring training, the replacement was Lenny Dykstra. When they needed a utility guy after George Foster departed, they had Kevin Mitchell in the system and he could play 7 positions. This was depth. I see nothing even closely resembling this in today’s team.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 30, 2010 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Sorry that last sentence makes no sense...
It should read “even remotely resembling this”
by MookieTheCat on Aug 30, 2010 1:33 AM EDT up reply actions
You don't see that anywhere
at least not to that degree.
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Wow
I am being called out by name, I am taking that as a compliment :-)
1st, I am really not trying to irritate anyone, and sorry if I am. I just don’t value draft picks, that is just my opinion, and maybe we just differ on that.
Of course I remember the 86 Mets. Perfect example of how you build a great team, with a mix of FA, trades and home-grown players.
They had lots of high draft players on that team, Gooden, Strawberry, Backman were all 1st round picks, and played a huge role on that team. But then again, the 2010 Mets also have 3 1st round picks (Pelfrey, Davis, Wright), and that is probably the only thing they have in common. I would love to see a repeat of the ‘86 Mets, but I don’t the current regime has the brains.
by George_Sloan on Aug 30, 2010 8:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Not calling you out at all...
I was seeing that perhaps you and I shared a POV based on shared memory, as opposed to the yunggins around.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 30, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
You old fogies, you!
/jk
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I was just wondering
I have been watching the mets since 1962 when their first game was rained out in St. Louis. In those 49 years I am not sure they have had 10 good ones. Well, maybe 10 or 12. That is such a disgraceful legacy. Yet here I am. When I was younger I did nto get as disgusted as I get now.
Being a Mets fan...
Also means knowing who Mike Piazza is. :)
by MookieTheCat on Aug 30, 2010 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah but in 2010
mike piazza resigned with his home team, (Joe Mauer) big name Fa’s just don’t hit the open market anymore. And when they do they command 7-10 year 130+ million dollar contracts.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
No it was to you...
I’m sure you know Piazza’s draft position and that his pick was a favor by Tommy Lasorda to his dad. Point being that good players are often picked outside of the first round. Did I misread your post above?
by MookieTheCat on Aug 30, 2010 1:36 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah good plays are
but at a rate WAY WAY WAY lower than in the first round. It’s kind like the whole sure 2,7 wins in poker sometimes, and pocket aces get busted often, but which do you think is the better gamble?
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
Exactly...
But when you only get one hand that’s pocket aces with a huge buy-in (and where the other players also have good hands), and dozens of bad hands later than you can play for cheap, knowledge can go a lot further in the dozens of bad ones.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 30, 2010 1:39 AM EDT up reply actions
But being in NY
means that you have 3-4 times the chips and can afford to go strong when you have a strong hand (stud target draftee at a prime draft position) and if you get beat on the river (a bust of a prospect) it’s OK because you muscled your way to other pots (paying over-slot for guys who dropped due to signability issues).
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You would think
Here is draft spend for the last 3 years.
Yanks were 12th and Mets were 20th last year.
For 3 years, Yanks were 12th and Mets were 25th (or so).
by George_Sloan on Aug 30, 2010 8:06 AM EDT up reply actions
wait what?
I agree, but in the case of draft picks you’re basically being asked to get your money all in before the flop or fold. You can know the percentages of each hand but that’s about the extent.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
So it's blackjack, not poker...
Same deal.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 30, 2010 1:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Thank you Mookie
Yes, and I found some stats as well if anyone is interested. Although they are a little old, I think they should still apply:
Of the 1,038 players taken in the first round by all teams, only 183 of those players made All-Star status (18%).
26% of 1st rounders became at least MLB regulars. 8% became good players, at 4% became stars.
Plus, I don’t think the Mets know how to development and manage young players, see Mejia, F-Mart and yes, even Davis to an extent.
Plus I don’t think the Mets really care about the draft. They had the 7th overall pick in 2010, and yet when you look at draft spend, they ranked 20th. I realize spend does not equal success, but just about every team below them didn’t have a 1st round pick. Perfect example of the cheap Wilpons.
And still, even if you have the 16th pick, you only lose it if you sign a type a FA. Conjecture on my part, but I don’t think the Mets have $ to sign anyone this year, so we are probably worrying about nothing. Every indication I see says they will dump salary and cut payroll.
by George_Sloan on Aug 30, 2010 8:00 AM EDT up reply actions
We have had 5 #1 overall picks
One name is familiar. not really sure the other 4 amounted to much, or at least I don’t recognize their names.
1966 Chilcott, SteveS Catcher 1968 Foli, Tim Shortstop 1980 Strawberry, Darryl Outfielder 1984 Abner, Shawn Outfielder 1994 Wilson, Paul Right-handed pitcher <pre/>
by George_Sloan on Aug 30, 2010 8:54 AM EDT up reply actions
The other four are all recognizable, but all for bad reasons...
Mostly, anyway.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Aug 30, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah but how many big name FA's do the braves have?
most of their FA’s are complementary cheap guys, their core producers were all drafted and developed by them. our problem is we don’t produce core guys, or even above average complementary guys, and have to pay for them in FA. You can’t just compare FA’s you have to look at the actual contributions/roles those FA’s play on the team.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
That's the point I was trying to make
They don’t all have to be huge, just provide value.
Derek Lowe
Kenshin Kawakami
Billy Wagner
Takashi Saito
David Ross
Troy Glaus
Peter Moylan
Eric Hinske
Brooks Conrad
All of these guys have done something this year for them, I think.
The Mets always go for the biggest flashiest signing they can, and sometimes it doesn’t work out very well.
by George_Sloan on Aug 29, 2010 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree...the flashy signing is stupid
when you can develop everything from within. All you have to do is keep your draft picks (by not making the flashy signing in the first place). Flashy signings are stupid because you’re paying a premium for the numbers the player has put up in the past. It makes no sense to pay for what a guy did at 27-32 when you sign him at 33. Sadly, the Mets don’t understand this. Drafting well means that you’ll end up with more guys playing for cheap while hopefully putting up their best numbers at a young age. Then you can supplement them with signings and trades.
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by Steve Schreiber on Aug 29, 2010 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Agree with your general statement
but in practice a team will develop surpluses in one area and deficits in another. This is where smart trades and FA signings come into play. As far as flashy signings go, yes lots of the time it’s for a guy who’s had several years in his prime is about a year or so away from going downhill. (That is, if you’re lucky he’s not jumping off a cliff.)
What's the score, boys?
What did Bugs Bunny do?
What's with the Carrot League baseball today?
?
Yeah I got the point you’re trying to make
the point I’m trying to make is they don’t have anyone flashy, because they drafted and develop the flashy players. hence the importance of the draft.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
don't have anyone flashy from FA I mean
because they draft Heyward.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
So what???
We have Davis and Thole, not to mention Neise, Pelfrey, and Wright. Everyone has home grown players. They have pretty much the same number as we do.
They also didn’t have a 2010 round 1 draft pick, because of Wagner. How does that fit.
by George_Sloan on Aug 29, 2010 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions
um Davis and Thole
don’t really even come close to Heyward, Hanson, Prado, McCann never mind the players they gave away for no apparent reason like Kelly Johnson and Escobar. Davis and Thole combined aren’t even as valuable as Heyward, let alone Heyward, Hanson and Prado. Hell, Niese, Pelfrey, Thole and Davis combined aren’t as valuable as just Hanson and Heyward.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
Again, so what??
So they draft better than we do, is that your point? If it is, I agree with you.
Prado & Escobar were never drafted, they were foreign FA
McCann was a 2nd round pick
Hanson was a 22nd round pick
Heyward was a 1st rounder
Johnson was a supplemental 1st rounder
And by the way, since 2001, the Braves have had 7 1st round draft picks, we have had 9.
by George_Sloan on Aug 30, 2010 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Don't know
Haven’t really read any research on the subject, so I can’t say for sure, but I doubt there is any difference between say the 14th pick and the 18th pick. There is a difference between 1st round and 10th round, but within a specific round, the odds are probably pretty close no matter where you are in the round, except for maybe the top 5 or 10 picks.
by George_Sloan on Aug 29, 2010 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions
um there is a huge difference
the difference is one you lose if you sign a type A and one you won’t lose. And when did I say anything about how high you’re picking, my point has always been keeping your first round pick vs not keeping it. If it’s protected you don’t have to worry about not signing type A’s.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
Yes
I agree with that, and I have from the beginning, what I don’t agree with is tanking games to make sure you get a top 15 pick. That is where I disagree.
by George_Sloan on Aug 29, 2010 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you're mistaking myself, Gina, and others
wanting them to lose with wanting them to tank. I’m not suggesting they go out a try to lose games. I just don’t want them to win themselves out of a protected pick.
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The way I see it,
it is instant gratification vs. delayed gratification. The instant gratification is the extra 3-4 wins which in a year or two mean absolutely nothing (come on…when you look back on teams, is there much of a difference between 79 wins and 83 wins, for example), while the delayed gratification is losing those extra games, getting a protected pick and drafting a player in the 1st round who can eventually become a contributor to a Mets team that could win MORE than 79-83 games in 2-3 years.
I agree with the delayed gratification side…I don’t give a damn about 4 more wins this year. That does nothing for me. I want a playoff team in the near future and winning 4 games in a LOST SEASON does nothing to get us to that goal.
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by Steve Schreiber on Aug 29, 2010 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Oddly enough, 79 wins instead of 83
might help get Omar on his way, next year if not this year. The difference between 83 wins in 2010 and 2011 as opposed to 79 wins each of those years could well be that Omar gets canned after 2011.
Does anyone really think we are getting to 79 wins?
by MookieTheCat on Aug 29, 2010 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I honestly don't know
They have 13 or so games against the Pirates, Nats and Cubs. They also have 13 games or so against the Phils & Braves. I think they will be someplace between 75-80 wins, We have great starting pitching.
by George_Sloan on Aug 29, 2010 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions
It is not that I want to see them win or lose
It is just that I want them to play hard until the end. If they lose the rest of the games I don’t care, as long as they play hard, or maybe even look at young players. What I don’t want to see is them tanking games or laying down. There is no reason to watch them if that is the case. The reality is that they suck, so they will probably lose a bunch of games anyway. I just don’t think you should ever manage a team to lose games.
by George_Sloan on Aug 29, 2010 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think anyone's saying
they should try to lose or manage to lose.
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And I have no problem with that
what I objected to was the “lay down” mentality. We shouldn’t lay down for anyone, dammit.
I apologize if I confused you with someone else.
by George_Sloan on Aug 29, 2010 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I want them to lose...
Just in fun and creative ways. I want this team to break the record for the most unassisted triple plays against in one year. I want someone to HPB the bases load then balk home a walk-off. I want someone to hit a home run, run the bases backwards, and get thrown out for failure to touch 2nd. I want someone to be traded for himself (Mike Jacobs, I’m looking at you). I want Jerry to pull up 1st base and sign it. I want Omar to re-sign Ambiorix Burgos. I want Joe from Staten Island to pitch. Actually, screw that, I want Ollie to pitch. If you’re not going to play good baseball, you might as well play really bad baseball, as a form of absurdist entertainment.
What I really don’t want is a repeat of Carlos Beltran playing on a bum wheel in a month of useless games, like he did last fall. Or Reyes, Wright, or whoever else might contribute next year or years beyond getting hurt in an attempt to go .500 rather than .497.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 29, 2010 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I think they want to dump Beltran
So they need to keep playing him, so that he can show some signs of life. I keep hearing the rumor that they want to dump his salary.
And I really think Wright doesn’t want to sit. I think he would complain bitterly if they tried.
by George_Sloan on Aug 29, 2010 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions
What a way....
To buy low and sell high
Jeez.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 29, 2010 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
don't worry...that will happen against the bravos
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
by feslenraster on Aug 29, 2010 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Big series coming up
If we sweep we can still win the division!
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
Off topic:
Carlos Gonzalez hit 2 more HR’s today. He’s slugging 1.099 in August after going 1.150 in September.
.323 AVG/.358OPB/.581SLG/.939OBP with 20SB for the year.
Redic.
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and he was traded twice!
how pissed are the d-backs that he landed back in the division.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
Josh Byrnes must be laughing his ass off
although I’m sure having Justin Upton goes along way to easing their minds.
I just can’t believe Beane let go of him.
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BGBTN just put up a graphic
he’s currently the Triple crown leader if you were to only count home-park numbers.
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he's a beast
might even be a late 1st or 2nd rounder in Fantasy next yr.
Look at his home/away splits.
Talk about Coors field product.
by ultimate913 on Aug 29, 2010 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions
eh not really
this has been studied, most players in quirky stadiums, including our own, struggle mightily on the road because the parks are so different from what they’re used to and they have to adjust everything. our offense has been bad in general, but our road offense makes our home offense look HOF worthy.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
FanGraphs had a good piece on him a while back
The verdict was, yes there’s a difference in the numbers, but like what Gina said, combined with his age, it’s not likely to be a huge deal going forward.
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NOT THE CONDO!!!!!!!!
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Aug 29, 2010 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions
It's too bad the Astros aren't in Dallas
Then the headline could be “Dickey does Dallas”.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Aug 29, 2010 11:52 PM EDT reply actions
How, really, does overslotting challenge the Commish's office?
In effect, all that’s going on is that the team thinks the player is worth more than what the MLB thinks the player is worth, or is more desperate for him, and is willing to throw him more money to ensure that he signs, or whatever else. The slots are basically suggestions, for a lack of better words, aren’t they? Do those slot figures have any kind of “binding capacity” or anything like that?
(The whole draft system the MLB uses confuses me a great deal, I’ll be honest. I only recently figured out what slotting, overslotting, etc. actually meant, so…)
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Aug 30, 2010 1:53 AM EDT reply actions
To use an analogy,
wouldn’t it be like some museum saying, “The suggested donation price is X”, and you giving more money than is recommended? With drafting, of course, the MLB isn’t getting that money, so the analogy isn’t really 100%, but the sentiment is what I mean. Why would the MLB get mad if a team spends more money than they really should have?
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Aug 30, 2010 1:55 AM EDT up reply actions
because the draft is supposed to promote parity
and counteract the lack of a salary cap. And if all the big market teams snatch up the best prospects because they can spend more it kind of defeats the purpose…though small market teams are the ones that spend the most on the draft now so really you’d think MLB would realize they were getting the same end goal.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
Still...
I was always under the impression that, because each draftee is in his own special situation due to where he’s drafted, who he’s represented by, and so on, that what one club did really didn’t make much of a difference to everyone else. If the Nats signed Harper for $1,000,000 overslot (let’s say), that really wouldn’t make a difference to Tallion and his dealings with the Pirates, and them possibly them signing Tallion for under slot (in theory, if both sides agreed [unlikely, but…]). One team going overslot doesn’t necessarily raise the price on all draftees, does it?
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Aug 30, 2010 2:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Agents don't want their guy to sign for less than the last guy in that position.
It’s their job. Even with whatshisname that the Mets drafted #1 this year Boras asked for a lot more than he signed for. The slot system is a way to point to something and say “see, this is normal, you’re being greedy.”
by MookieTheCat on Aug 30, 2010 2:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Because the MLB doesn't price the slot based on the talent, just on the number of the pick.
(If I’m not mistaken)
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Here's my take...Gina and Ogre feel free to supplement...
Baseball has a big problem of spending too much. Salraries are totally out of wack with history, and although the fanatsy that teams are losing money has generally been blown out of the water over the past week, it’s still harder to make a profit than in the past. While there is no way to control costs under the current CBA, especially with guaranteed deals, the last thing the owners want as a whole is to have bidding wars for those not under the CBA (minor leaguers). So the slot system is a way of keeping teams generally in line with history. The MLB draft is also somewhat unique in that players are often drafted very young (right out of high school) when college is a viable option and they may be able to perfect their skills in places other than the minors. So players can tell the team that drafts them to stuff it if they deal is not sweet enough and go on to be a star jock in college. Or they can ride a bus and stay at shitty hotels and get paid very little in shit towns along the Gulf Coast in summer where it’s 900 degrees and they can’t even go to bars and there are no groupies (yet). Therefore there is a great incentive for the equivalent of bidding wars among high draft picks. Not teams bidding against one another, but guys holding out until the team pays them enough to make it worth their while to give up college from high school. The slot system is a way of keeping costs down for unproven players who may or may not work out. If you violate it, you in essence are playing Al Davis to the Jets deal with Revis. You are costing everyone money. And since the commish works for the owners, it is his job to ensure that costs are held down in this respect.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 30, 2010 2:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Ah, I see.
So, it’s not really “team v. team”, but more like “team v. time”, since the draftee, if he doesn’t get an offer he likes, can dismiss it, go back to school, and get drafted again, this time (possibly) by a team that can afford to give him more.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Aug 30, 2010 2:05 AM EDT up reply actions
And, since,
the same perennially bad teams normally get the highest drafts, when it comes the next time to draft, they know that draftee is going to be looking for more than they can/want to offer, and are more apt to pass him over, allowing teams with higher draft picks (and, odds are, better financial capabilities) to have that player drop into their pockets, in effect. Something like that?
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Aug 30, 2010 2:11 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I hadn't thought of that...
But yeah, seems to make sense. I think that where it comes into play is that if a team, let’s say they are called the Pirates, might want to draft someone but they know he is represented by Boras, they might think twice and let him drop to the better teams higher up the list. The slot system allows teams to know with some certainty, if everyone plays ball, that an agent has his hands tied and that if they speak to an agent prior to the draft the agent knows that letting his guy drop is almost certain to cost him money.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 30, 2010 2:15 AM EDT up reply actions
thats actually what Selig was apparently worried about
premier talent always dropping to the red sox and yankees of the world (luckily he knew he didn’t have to worry about us)but instead smaller market teams decided to cut payroll even more and instead spend heavily on the draft IFA. I think the top spenders on the draft and IFA the last few years have been teams like the Rays, the Pirates and the A’s.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
so basically the teams that are going over the slot the most
are the ones the system was supposed to be designed to protect
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
Now it all makes sense; thanks for clearing that up for me, guys.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Aug 30, 2010 2:26 AM EDT up reply actions
And thanks for clearing up the Ruth thing.
On the other thread. It all goes back and forth.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 30, 2010 2:29 AM EDT up reply actions
and now the bastards
are locking up those players through peak years. So we’re left with the Jason Bay’s of the world.
Selig needs to make some rules to protect the mets.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
Lol. Protect the Mets
They do it to themselves cause they don’t know how to run a team
Yes
Although there are instances where a player doesn’t even have to be drafted, and then not signed for teams to pass on him because of signability issues (Aaron Crow comes to mind).
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All Davis was a genius
before he went crazy.
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He just needs some tough actin' Tinactin...
To get him back to his glory days.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 30, 2010 2:20 AM EDT up reply actions
It was scary how advanced he was back in the day
He pretty much forced the NFL/AFL merger by outmaneuver teams in a entirely different league.
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yeah the man was a genius
whats happened to him would be sad…if he didn’t consistently bring the lulz
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
Mets suck huge schweaty Monkey nuts
And will never be good because they never draft good players and the Wilpons are too cheap to pay for any draft picks. They don’t get that teams are built from within. Not by overpaying over the hill players like Pedro and Glavine. Totally incompetent.
Irrelevant troll is irrelevant.
Go away.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 30, 2010 2:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Lol. U so funny
No u go away. Suck my monkey nuts. Like you know everything in the world
Here's some kindness...
Read this. http://www.amazinavenue.com/2009/4/30/861053/amazin-avenue-community-guidelines
Also, if you’re gonna criticize the Wilpons, great, we all love it. If you’re going to say that they need to stop being such Jews, check that at the door. Same with “Mets suck huge schweaty Monkey nuts.” It’s a matter of being respectful. We can all disagree (see above for a many-hours long disagreement among Gina, Ogre, and me) but at the end of the day it’s a matter not of like or dislike, but of being respectful.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 30, 2010 2:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Ok yea
I understand some of it may be inappropriate but I speak the truth. The Mets do stink and I was trying to make it a little colorful. I’m not trying to disrespect anyone
I'm taking off my flag...
Ogre I encourage you to do the same, but that’s your call.
Just go through the posts on here. We are all critical of the way the team is run nowadays but even as an argument tactic you lose points and credibility by phrasing it that way.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 30, 2010 2:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm going to leave it only because I think it's something the Admins. should be made aware of
What they do with it is their decision but I wouldn’t expect more than a warning to come of it (unless there’s a previously reported history).
Just so I’m clear though, don’t take it personally, Carvel; instead learn from it, tone down the way you write comments and just be overall respectful. You have some ground to make up on here in that department.
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Oh got me on that one too.
Ill flag u then too big guy
How?
Hes telling me to go away for no reason. Cause he dislikes me
Yeah he has a point...
I’ll give him that.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 30, 2010 2:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Still
his response showed his intentions IMO.
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Agree on all counts.
He does have a bit of a history as well. Or am I wrong in remembering this (my old guy problems with memory having been explained)?
by MookieTheCat on Aug 30, 2010 2:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Ah screw it...
Everyone deserves a second chance.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 30, 2010 2:46 AM EDT up reply actions
I meant "see above" about the flagging thing
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Exact for his first year, Glavine wasn't really an overpay.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Aug 30, 2010 2:12 AM EDT up reply actions
except signing an ex-Brave was a huge mistake and always will be
although I can somewhat forgive Tommy G. by giving the team three draft picks!
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
by feslenraster on Aug 30, 2010 8:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh, come on, now. Be realistic.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Aug 30, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
And
They incredibly let traded Wagner for a piece of garbage When they should have demanded a much better player in return or kept Billy and gotten the draft picks in return for him.
Its just pretty sad
That a team like the Marlins with a payroll of $79mil less than the Mets is a better team with more talent. And you know where that comes from? The draft. A franchise whose owner blindly robs its fans and doesn’t spend money manages to do a better job than a bug market team who spends tons of money is stupid places. Instead of the draft, we buy horrible FA’s and spend money in the Caribbean, where a legit prospect has yet to come out of. The Wilpons are robbing the Mets fans blind by putting a horrible product on the field. Maybe if we had good scouting and concentrated on the draft we would have a player like Jason Heyward on our team, who we could have drafted.
This is more like it.
I don’t hold grudges. If you keep posting like this, I will not tell you to go away again. You got my word on that.
And it is sad that we draft worse than the Marlins—should this be true—who appear not to give a shit about anything.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 30, 2010 2:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Yea sure
I just didn’t appreciate you calling me a troll and telling me to go away. Regardless o the title of that post it said something truthful.
The Marlins play in a terrible old stadium (although thy are getting a new one) and constantly get rid of their good players yet they are still able to produce a better team. I just don’t get it
Omar Minaya is not the Marlins' general manager.
That goes a long way towards explaining the difference between the two teams.
The Mets have a bottom five GM, while the Marlins have one of the top five. A lot of it really is that simple.
Where the hell you been all night?
I would have expected you to be in on the argument above.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 30, 2010 3:09 AM EDT up reply actions
.
spend money in the Caribbean, where a legit prospect has yet to come out of
Since when is the Caribbean/Latin America bereft of MLB talent?
I agree about not spending on the draft but the above is just not true.
/and I agree with Mookie; this is much better than previous comments.
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I've been thinking about the Carribean thing recently...
And there’s a grain of truth in it, even if it’s overstated. For all the talk about Omar’s magical ability in Latin America, I don’t see much production. Maybe this will change with the acadamies, but I’m not buying it…yet. A lot of talent has come out of Latin American and I question whether the Mets are getting their share, especially given the resources put to this task.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 30, 2010 2:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Questioning the Mets success in Latin America is different than saying there haven't been any legit prospects to come out if it.
In theory, I liked Omar’s idea to spend less in the draft but dominate the L.A. talent pool – but in reality, you’re right, it has largely come back to bight them in the ass.
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Yeah...
Maybe it was an issue of exaggerated expectations. With the whole Los Mets thing I think we were all expecting first dibs on the next Latin American Sidd Finch, and we get Ruben Tejada.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 30, 2010 3:00 AM EDT up reply actions
the problem is
we don’t even come close to dominating the LA pool talent or spending near the top on it. we don’t spend in either place.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
Yea
Omar has no ability in anything. He does not know what he’s doing in any regard. We have had the academy for so long and nothing has happened. And by the way its not like the Mets are special with the only presence there. I know there are other teams that have academies there as well. So in no way do we dominate the LA pool. If we did dominate it we should have a great fricken team at this point. But it has been completely fruitless and a huge waste of money. If Omar is great with his ability in LA, send him down there to take part in the academy, not manage the team into the ground until we are paralyzed and can’t do anything, especially with lame duck and spineless owners.
There is no way that the Mets should ever have not concentrated on the draft, worst decision ever. We would not have to be piecing together a rotation, bullpen and sign players like Bay. Instead we would have a Heyward to put in RF, we would have brought up a closer through our system and had strong pitching instead of relying on weak on questionable FA signings and minor league players to complement what should be a major league team.
The help we get from our minors is a sham. Feliciano and Hessman, really? 31 and 32 yr old career minor leaguers are supposed to help us? Chris Carter who was a terrible piece to get in return for Wagner? Absolutely pathetic.
Why is Nick Evans not in the majors instead of Hessman? Hessman is terrible, career minor league hr leader. Wow thats incredible. Keep him him the minors then where he can enjoy his glory, not in the majors where he is a useless hitter and terrible fielder. Bring up Evans and let him develop into a great bench and utility guy. He has been doing well in the minors.
Is that true?
Is Hessman the career minor league HR leader? That’s kind of like being an amateur porn star: not good.
I pretty much agree with everything you say above, except that I want Omar gone, not reassigned to some other task. You don’t get demoted within an organization unless you are mission-critical or in middle management or below. It’s one of those unspoken rules of business. His track record is enough to justify letting him find alternate employment elsewhere.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 30, 2010 3:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Lol
Yes sir he is
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2010/01/31/2010-01-31_meet_crash_davis.html
Pretty sad, i agree.
Haha. I would love to see the team that hires him. I don’t think he is ever a GM again. A useless guy. Maybe garbage man for the Cyclones
You're young, right? (not said in a mean way)
You have yet to see the recycling of useless managers and GMs like I have. Just from the Mets I can think of 10 or so of these guys off the top of my head. Basically, they are guys who are known to not criticize the owners, keep costs down, etc. I would wager a guess that at least a quarter of GMs are in this boat.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 30, 2010 3:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Man...
As much as I want to feel bad for him, $15k/month in the minors ain’t too shabby a salary. Damn. I should have kept up with baseball.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 30, 2010 3:20 AM EDT up reply actions
wait 15/k a month
do all minor leaguers get that? Or is he special?
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
Minor leaguers get pennies.
They get more with service time, being added to the ML roster, being called up, minor league free agency, etc.
He is a minor league free agent.
His paygrade (425k) is like the ML minimum salary. For 6 months of work, that’s 70k/month. For a guy who will make a career of playing the minor leagues, that’s like the most he can get. Haha it’s hard to compare to A-Rod (such a ludicrous contract that no other player will get that).
No wonder career minor league players say Japan/Korea contracts are highly lucrative (for their standards).
When his contract was purchased by the Mets (7/26/10) and he was called up, I’m sure he got something more (say, something like 20k/month more). It’s not just the money, but imagine their excitement of playing the majors for the first time (ok maybe staying in the bench and not first time, but still).
A few weeks back, Joe posted a link about the Yankees minor leagues. Most of the guys live like college students, having to ask their parents for money, not eating well, sharing the dorm condo with 4 other guys to reduce expenses, etc.
Here is the link
http://thunderbaseball.wordpress.com/2010/08/15/minor-league-baseball-investing-in-the-future/
It’s a bit long, but worth reading.
I guess it would really depend on where you played
in Georgia/Most of the South East getting 70k a for 6 months of work would make you rich. in NY i’m guessing not so much.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
Also...
For much of the time these guys are playing, they are not living in palaces. A lot of them rent relatively cheap apartments that they share and have board provided while on the road. From the article above it says Hessman makes $15k/month for him minor leage time. With a 6-month season that’s $90k, plus whatever overage he makes at the MLB minimum for time he’s called up, and he can work at whatever during the offseason. it’s not big-league numbers but it’s a salary a lot of people would kill for. Certainly enough to make a good life for yourself in a vast majority of the country.
by MookieTheCat on Aug 30, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Among minor leaguers, he is in the highest paid class.
Those who were recently signed (not top rounds) and aren’t minor league free agents, they get paid around 1k-2k/month. So, it’s common for them to have another job for the 6 months when they aren’t playing.
A franchise owner who blindly robs it's fans?
do you mean Loria or the wilpons?
also what a legit prospect has yet to come out of the Caribbean?
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
Its not devoid of great talent
Im not saying that. It has tons of talent but obviously the Mets are too bad at their job that they have yet to find anyone of those guys that is good.
I honestly don't think Hessman is that bad
he’s a decent AAAA player (see Roberto Petagine, or Scott McClain) who, if given a full time bench job would probably be pretty productive. (see Greg Dobbs, Wes Helms). Unfortunately, Nick WHO, might end up on Mike Hessman’s career path if he rots in the Mets’ farm system any longer than he should.
hey Mookie, if you’re left-handed and can throw about 80-85 you might be a Mets’ Millionaire! heh
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
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