Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: NFL Players Ready To Welcome Gay Teammate

Ruben Tejada and Rose-Colored Glasses

After a surprising yet short mini-battle on twitter the other day, I decided it was time to revisit my analysis on the second base position. No, this won't be about Justin Turner - this will instead be a look at Ruben Tejada with my rose-colored glasses on. Happy, OGTedBerg and FireJerryManuel? I'm giving it a shot.

The crux of the argument is that Tejada is so young. We've followed this folly down the road with Fernando Martinez very recently, though - youth can only get you so far. At some point you have to produce.

In any case, I ran a play index query through Baseball-Reference.com to find out how many second baseman had debuted at 20 or 21 and accrued 100+ plate appearances since 1960. Those are some random cutoffs, I admit, but I was aiming to get 'modern era' debuts of 'significant' proportions, and the list that was returned was an interesting one. Take a gander.

Star-divide

Rk Player PA Year Age Tm Lg G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB IBB SO HBP SB CS BA OBP SLG OPS
1 Roberto Alomar 611 1988 20 SDP NL 143 545 84 145 24 6 9 41 47 5 83 3 24 6 .266 .328 .382 .709
2 Delino DeShields 572 1990 21 MON NL 129 499 69 144 28 6 4 45 66 3 96 4 42 22 .289 .375 .393 .768
3 Rod Carew 561 1967 21 MIN AL 137 514 66 150 22 7 8 51 37 4 91 2 5 9 .292 .341 .409 .750
4 Paul Molitor 556 1978 21 MIL AL 125 521 73 142 26 4 6 45 19 2 54 4 30 12 .273 .301 .372 .673
5 Hal Lanier 401 1964 21 SFG NL 98 383 40 105 16 3 2 28 5 0 44 0 2 1 .274 .283 .347 .630
6 Dalton Jones 401 1964 20 BOS AL 118 374 37 86 16 4 6 39 22 2 38 1 6 3 .230 .274 .342 .616
7 Mark Lewis 336 1991 21 CLE AL 84 314 29 83 15 1 0 30 15 0 45 0 2 2 .264 .293 .318 .612
8 Danny Ainge 331 1979 20 TOR AL 87 308 26 73 7 1 2 19 12 1 58 2 1 0 .237 .269 .286 .554
9 Roberto Mejia 248 1993 21 COL NL 65 229 31 53 14 5 5 20 13 1 63 1 4 1 .231 .275 .402 .676
10 Ruben Tejada 206 2010 20 NYM NL 63 175 25 36 8 0 1 13 16 3 32 7 2 2 .206 .294 .269 .562
11 Asdrubal Cabrera 186 2007 21 CLE AL 45 159 30 45 9 2 3 22 17 0 29 2 0 0 .283 .354 .421 .775
12 Luis Castillo 180 1996 20 FLA NL 41 164 26 43 2 1 1 8 14 0 46 0 17 4 .262 .320 .305 .625
13 Glenn Hubbard 179 1978 20 ATL NL 44 163 15 42 4 0 2 13 10 1 20 2 2 1 .258 .309 .319 .628
14 Ruben Gotay 166 2004 21 KCR AL 44 152 17 41 7 3 1 16 9 0 36 2 0 1 .270 .315 .375 .690
15 Rennie Stennett 165 1971 20 PIT NL 50 153 24 54 5 4 1 15 7 0 9 0 1 1 .353 .377 .458 .834
16 Cesar Izturis 140 2001 21 TOR AL 46 134 19 36 6 2 2 9 2 0 15 0 8 1 .269 .279 .388 .667
17 Steve Sax 127 1981 21 LAD NL 31 119 15 33 2 0 2 9 7 1 14 0 5 7 .277 .317 .345 .662
18 Wally Backman 110 1980 20 NYM NL 27 93 12 30 1 1 0 9 11 1 14 1 2 3 .323 .396 .355 .751
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 9/15/2010.

 

Hey, would you look at that, Wally Backman makes the list. Maybe he can tutor the young second baseman from the dugout next year.

Funny stuff aside, I don't think the anyone would argue that Tejada will be the next Roberto Alomar, Rod Carew or Paul Molitor, so let's sort of let the top half of the list simmer. Those stats seem out of reach for Ruben, but they were already if you considered their respective minor league statistics. Even with Ruben Tejada's recent hot streak, it looks like Asdrubal Cabrera's modest debut is out of reach for this year as well, but it is interesting to see the similarities with his debut and Tejada's - they have similar walk and strikeout rates at the very least, and the faithcasted future for Tejada might contain a similar skillset for Tejada. Let's at least acknowledge the possibility that Tejada could get close to Cabrera even though he never put up a minor league season as nice as Cabrera's 2007 (.310/.380/.448 across Double-A Akron in the Eastern League and Triple-A Buffalo).

No, instead there is a name that jumps off the list here - a name that should be interesting to Mets fans. Look at old man Luis Castillo and you'll see a guy well equipped to help Tejada make the jump that he made as a young man. Castillo had a similar debut, but once again, his best minor league season before his debut (.317/.411/.393 in Double-A Portland in the Eastern League) looks better than Tejada's best. He was 20, in Double-A, and walking 13.3% of the time. Tejada was 19 in Double-A and walking 6.7%, or 20 in Triple-A and walking 5.7% of the time. Lastly, it took Castillo himself three or four years to be the real Luis Castillo, so there are plenty of reasons to think that Tejada does not equal Castillo.

To date, perhaps the best comp on the list is Mark Lewis. Lewis was 20 across Double-A and Triple-A, walked 5.7% of the time, and debuted with a slightly worse walk-to-strikeout ratio (1:3, where Tejada's is more 1:2.5), and then settled in around one walk to two strikeouts for the rest of his career (which looks like Tejada's minor league K/BB ratio). He had a .133 ISO in the minor leagues, Tejada a .080. Lewis peaked at 27 in San Francisco, with a .267/.318/.431 line that looks reachable for Tejada if you subtract some of the slugging percentage (which then makes the line a lot less exciting, as Lewis' best full-season line was only good for a 96 OPS+ by itself).

This year's small sample aside, the age of his debut doesn't mean much in the context of this list - even old Glenn Hubbard went to the cupboard and walked more at the same age and level in the minor leagues, debuted in the major leagues at the same age to similar results, and then put up a career .244/.328/.349 line (85 OPS+) that wouldn't have anyone reaching for the champagne. Tejada was worth a second look, but it just doesn't look that rosy for him, any way you slice it. Cheap backup middle infielder that makes the roster? Sure. Not sure there's more tricks up his sleeve though.

Comment 54 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Was the argument about whether he'd improve to a starting worthy player

or whether he should be giving a legitimate shot at making the roster for next year?

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon

by Gina on Sep 16, 2010 10:33 AM EDT reply actions  

I certainly think Tejada needs another season in the minors, but I have faith that he can become a decent major leaguer

The fact that he’s walking in about 9% of his PA’s is very encouraging, and he almost has to improve on his .238 BABIP. I think some more time at Buffalo would be very beneficial for him, but I think with a league avergae BABIP and that BB rate he could be a solid player.

Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...

by Stephen Schmidt on Sep 16, 2010 10:39 AM EDT reply actions  

Yeah but the question is based on how skill set how much do we actually expect his BABIP

to regress? Hitters don’t just automatically regress to league average. And when you’re barely strong enough to get the ball past the pitcher and not fast enough to routinely have infield hits and beat out grounders, I mean obviously he can but he’s not going to do it to the same extent Reyes or a young Castillo could, exactly where do we expect it to regress to?

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon

by Gina on Sep 16, 2010 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

These things are true

But I have some hope that both his speed and his power can improve since he is so young. Granted there is a strong argument that MLB level is not the place for that to happen. Still, I’m pretty high on Tejada as the future bench MI.

by deadspy3 on Sep 16, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

How does one improve on speed?

He’s 20 years old, he’s not going to get any faster, only slower. He can become a smarter base runner, but he’s never going to be a 25-30 steal guy in the majors.

by David G on Sep 16, 2010 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Speed peaks at about 24-25 years old generally.

It should be very close to peaked, but it shouldn’t be peaked yet

Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...

by Stephen Schmidt on Sep 16, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah but guys who have elite speed

show it well before they peak. he may get faster than he is now but it’s highly unlikely a player who didn’t show elite speed in the minors is going to gain it at 24-25.

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon

by Gina on Sep 16, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

there's lots of ways to improve speed

and if you include quickness in the speed category, there are even more ways to improve.

by Mike Clemente on Sep 16, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah there's ways to improve

but he’s not going to turn himself in Pagan or Reyes. And I’d imagine he’s been working on those ways since becoming a professional baseball player.

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon

by Gina on Sep 16, 2010 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think speed is kind of a red herring....

If he can work on his eye and directed contact, he has a good shot at being a sort of Castillo in his prime (where he was pretty good). If not, then speed won’t help anyone, except perhaps on defense.

by MookieTheCat on Sep 16, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, a good shot except for the part that there's nothing in his record to date to

indicate that. :)

His MLEs haven’t cracked the golden 575 OPS barrier. Come to think of it neither has his ML. I think there’s a wee bit of wishcasting in this thread.

by Jack Str on Sep 20, 2010 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think this pretty much says it all.

Tejada’s upside is future bench MI. His upside is Alex Cora.

by Jack Str on Sep 20, 2010 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

It may not become league average

But he has a solid LD% this year of 22.4, which makes his xBABIP .344.

His minor league BABIP is closer to .320, which shows me that he’s making improvement on his ability to hit line drives even at the highest level.

by TheBigStapler on Sep 16, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

true but not all line drives are created equal

and soft liners, which seem to be what many of his line drives are, aren’t going to get you to your xBABIP.

Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?

by KeithsMoustache on Sep 16, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't agree that he's hitting what we think of when we think of "line drives",

but it’s certainly what one would point to to try to make the case for him. His LD% has in fact gone up significantly every year he’s been in pro ball.

by Jack Str on Sep 20, 2010 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know how to fix Tejada in like ten minutes.

Give him a little Situational training, and he’s good to go.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 16, 2010 11:47 AM EDT reply actions  

Hey, a Gotay sighting!

He’s probably the best 2b they’ve had since Alfonzo. Either him or Valentin, sadly.

by David G on Sep 16, 2010 11:55 AM EDT reply actions  

Depressingly

Ainge is the only guy on the list that Ruben has a better OPS than.

by Boz_Paladin on Sep 16, 2010 11:58 AM EDT reply actions  

Yeah, I noticed that, too

But Ruben’s slugging is still lower than Danny’s. Depressing. They have to give Turner a really fair chance this spring. If they do, he’ll win the job. At worst, platoon him and Murph (if Murph can handle it).

by David G on Sep 16, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

eh I think we can put any hopes of Turner getting any kind of shot to bed

considering he hit for the fucking cycle in his last AAA game and they still didn’t bring him up because of superior options like Luis Hernandez and Arias (seriously?). He’ll probably be lucky to make it out of spring training without getting dfa’d, more than likely I’m expecting we’ll lose him on waivers.

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon

by Gina on Sep 16, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

that would be really shortsighted

they need to keep all avenues open for the 2b job, especially since the free agent class of 2b is a poo poo platter. Even Satin should be strongly considered.

by David G on Sep 16, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

really short sighted

like dfaing arguably your 3rd or 4th best starting option before the season started?…or your third string 2nd basemen when your first and second string are two gimpy old guys, one who was coming off knee surgery (we miss you Gotay)

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon

by Gina on Sep 16, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

we might

have a sane, intelligent, perspicacious GM by then.

Might

by jdon on Sep 16, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

True. He has whatever disease Nelson Figueroa had

that kept the Mets from seeing that they had a ballplayer that was better than some of the guys on the 25 man roster.

by Jack Str on Sep 20, 2010 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Three words:

The Irish Hammer. Mr. Daniel Murphy could well be our starting 2b next season if he has a lights out ST and can stay healthy.

Yeah I said “three words”, I didn’t say they were good words.

Mets 2010 slogan; "a whole new level of stupid you were unprepared for."

by scott from peekskill on Sep 16, 2010 1:45 PM EDT reply actions  

I think that the key to 2B in 2011

is not to rule anyone out, but not to rule anyone in. The Mets have many options, but none are great. if one of those options, like Murphy, works out, then so be it. If the best person available is Joe Swanson, then he should start.

R.A. Dickey for Governor!

by Russ on Sep 16, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

is that Luis Castillo?

"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"

by feslenraster on Sep 16, 2010 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Tejada is 20 years old and weighs about 140 pounds

At this point in his development he should be in the Eastern League learning pitch recognition, how to make adjustments at the plate and maturing physically. It really doesn’t do either the Team or the player any good to bring them up until they are ready to play at this level. Two years from now Ruben’s soft line drives will have more bang in them and as long as he doesn’t think of himself as a home run hitter he will easily hit enough to stay up here for good.

by t agee on Sep 16, 2010 3:02 PM EDT reply actions  

Are we sure he'll add more weight

And strength he has a Pretty small frame

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon

by Gina on Sep 16, 2010 3:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Can't be positive

but almost every man increases his strength well above what it was at 20 and for a pro athlete that should be the first order of business. If not he was never going to be the answer anyway.

by t agee on Sep 16, 2010 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

but I mean by how much

I’d assume he’s been working out and training the last 3 years he’s in our system, exactly how much strength could be expected to be added?

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon

by Gina on Sep 16, 2010 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

is this a serious question?

how much more strength can a 20 year old add?

uhh, a lot.

by gogomets on Sep 16, 2010 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

so should we be expecting him to come back up hitting bombs?

My point is even compared to most of his 20 year old minor league counter parts he’s fairly weak, if he’s already behind them are we actually expecting him to suddenly add enough strength to become a viable every day starting option?

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon

by Gina on Sep 16, 2010 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bombs? No

I’m talking the type of strength that will prevent a defender from making a play on a ball when he hits it well. Sharply hit line drives and ground balls through the infield. 100 singles, 25 extra base hits, 75 walks in 500 AB’s combined with an excellent D at either 2B or SS as a 22 year old making the minimum. And getting better every year. Yeah I’d take it. and I think it’s very possible with Tejada. At least he’s one guy who came up here without a long swing. Is anyone down in the minors trying to develop these kids anyway?

by t agee on Sep 16, 2010 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

you could take that

but would it be good enough for the team to go anywhere? Or better than multiple other options? Why take that when you can get better on the fa market cheaply or even from other internal options?

Which is kind of the entire point, you don’t want production you can live with you want the best possible.

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon

by Gina on Sep 16, 2010 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think you can get more production cheaply on the FA market

In fact I can’t remember the last free agent we signed that didn’t get hurt, didn’t under preform and that we couldn’t wait to get rid of or we had to live with or all four of these things. 2B is the ultimate young players position and we have quite a few possibilities and I’m in favor of letting all the internal options sort themselves out. I have no opinion on Turner or Valdespin? I don’t believe Murphy has the quick feet for the position but who knows. Even though I feel strongly that Tejada should have been left to develop his craft and mature physically for at least 2 more years I really like his short swing (that’s what allows him to check his swing rather than walking back to the dugout 150 times a year) his range and his instincts and it shouldn’t be up to the middle infielders to make up for a lack of home runs by more traditional sources. Tejada with the ability to drive the ball (but not trying to hit HR’s) would look a lot like Willie Randolph and yeah, that would be just fine with me especially with the payroll flexibility he would provide which would allow us to get a REAL difference maker like the next time a Cliff Lee type makes it to free agency.

by t agee on Sep 16, 2010 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

This would be a hair better than Alex Cora's 2009,

something around 250/340/340. Why would you want that on the major league team? That’s part of the recipe for not contending. It’s the same kind of thing Minaya put us through this year. A 21 or 22 year old with that kind of line should be spending an additional year or two in the minors to see if he can turn into a solid ML regular while the team avoids adding time to his service clock.

by Jack Str on Sep 20, 2010 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ainge would have been at least 6' 180 lbs at the same age

and I doubt if there were many line drives, soft or otherwise coming off his bat.

by t agee on Sep 16, 2010 3:30 PM EDT reply actions  

wow Carew struckout a lot the 1st season

and only a .341 OBP. I only saw him late in his career and he made great contact

Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all

by Rickfansince76 on Sep 16, 2010 4:35 PM EDT reply actions  

And he had grission...

Or at least his wife did—it’s debated whether he did as well.

by MookieTheCat on Sep 16, 2010 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Like I said before...

Ruben Tejada is another AHern…

he can hold down the fort defensively, but his offense? Starting him everyday would be like wanting another Death Wish sequel.

"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"

by feslenraster on Sep 16, 2010 6:28 PM EDT reply actions  

I think Ruben has decent knowledge of the strike zone

And I think his walk rate will improve. Considering how young he was at all those minor league stops (damn you, Tony Bernazard), I don’t think you can look at his walk rate and define him as anything yet.

Trying to believe is my full-time occupation.

by Preach19 on Sep 16, 2010 7:16 PM EDT reply actions  

true enough

"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"

by feslenraster on Sep 16, 2010 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

it's at 8.1% now

which is above league average

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon

by Gina on Sep 16, 2010 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

If the Mets (don't laugh) succesfully built a dynasty

and Tejada was on such a team and reached his potential, I think that he would be a utility infielder and not a starter.

by Russ on Sep 17, 2010 9:30 AM EDT reply actions  

same here

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon

by Gina on Sep 17, 2010 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

A Murphy tryout at 2B

sounds better all the time. Tejada certainly does not look ready and perhaps even when “ready” it will be for a IF utility role.

Valentine or Backman should be able to make that call.

by john738330 on Sep 17, 2010 1:10 PM EDT reply actions  

Hammer time

Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?

by KeithsMoustache on Sep 17, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Gary_carter_small
fxcarden's Nightly Rant! - Vol. I, No. 2 (August, 2011)
Small
A projection of the rest of 2012 using two key stats
Gary_carter_small
fxcarden's Nightly Rant! - Vol. I, No. 1 (July, 2011)
159714144_040c6c1501_small
The Greatest Bison: Frank Grant and the Color Line
Small
A WIN METHOD Analysis of the Current State of the Mets

Recent FanPosts

Small
Game Replays
Img_1435_small
This Week in Mets Quotes
Small
Santana or Sabathia?
Small
Whats to be done with the 'Pen?
Small
What about Oswalt?
61atehunexl__sl500_aa300__small
This Week in Mets' Overreaction

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recommended FanShots

At 5:30 PM EDT today Starting today at 5:00 PM EDT, witness one of the greatest renderings of visual sound effects ever!

UPDATE 1: My browser has crashed several times in the process from all the rants (FUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!) - as a result, there will instead be 4 or 5 separate installments of fxcarden's Nightly Rants! from 2011, with a similar pattern for the 2012 rants. Take my word for it, when I say that it's for the best. Here's the revised schedule:

Volume 1: 2011
No. 1: Today at 5:00 PM EDT
No. 2: Tomorrow
No. 3: Thursday
No. 4 and No. 5 (?) TBD

UPDATE 2: Vol. I, No. 1 (July, 2011) is now up!
beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeautiful colorization of Willie Mays' over-the-shoulder catch. Credit from Beyond the Box Score via Reddit. Embiggen at http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7071/7231074678_3faa94a82b_o.jpg
Frank Francisco is... The Most Interesting Closer In The World embiggen
2013 ALL-STAR GAME(TM) LOGO CONTEST

Major League Baseball has formally announced that Citi Field will be the site of the 2013 All-Star Game. (see video) In light of this, I have decided to launch an All-Star Game logo contest. To help get you started, I provided all of you with a sample All-Star Game logo. (click here to embiggen) If you wish to participate, please enter your submission with an image below, in the comments section. The contest ends on May 31st. I will choose a select number of finalists, and the community will vote on which of those logos is the best one.

Can you create a better logo than the sample logo provided? Then, give it a shot. Good luck to all participants!
Jon Rauch is awesome. Dan Tanna is, obviously, a fan of Greg Pomes.

Recent FanShots

Ike will not be demoted
Mocking the MLB draft
Our God would like an extension please
Win Expectancy Calculator
Are Pitch Counts Ruining The Game?
What's Mike Baxter's Ceiling?
Francesa: Ike Has 'Jungle Fever'
Mets At The Quarter-Pole: Doing Things The Wright Way
WTF is up with all the larry lovefest

+ New FanShot All FanShots >

Yahoo_full_count

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Gary_carter_small
fxcarden's Nightly Rant! - Vol. I, No. 2 (August, 2011)
Small
A projection of the rest of 2012 using two key stats
Gary_carter_small
fxcarden's Nightly Rant! - Vol. I, No. 1 (July, 2011)
159714144_040c6c1501_small
The Greatest Bison: Frank Grant and the Color Line
Small
A WIN METHOD Analysis of the Current State of the Mets

Recent FanPosts

Small
Game Replays
Img_1435_small
This Week in Mets Quotes
Small
Santana or Sabathia?
Small
Whats to be done with the 'Pen?
Small
What about Oswalt?
61atehunexl__sl500_aa300__small
This Week in Mets' Overreaction

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


THE BIG GUY

Aa_avatar_small Eric Simon

THE INCREDIBLES

Blackfish2_small Alex Nelson

Endy_small Rob Castellano

Img_1262_small Matthew Artus

Kanye_pekka_small Sam Page

Best_infield_ever_small James Kannengieser

Metsstitches_small Eno Sarris

48900_1085732804_4466_n_small Chris McShane

Lg_rocker_ap_small Matthew Callan

Billy_and_daddy_4th_of_july_small Bill Petti

THE NEWS GURUS

Mrmet_small Steve Schreiber

3_small Stephen Schmidt

159714144_040c6c1501_small Pack Bringley

124967042_crop_340x234_small Jeffrey Paternostro