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Cafardo is pretty bad
Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...
by Stephen Schmidt on Sep 19, 2010 2:01 PM EDT reply actions
Yeah, but saying he talked to several Mets executives is enough to qualify as a decent enough source.
His speculation of Wright in the Boston lineup, however, is both terrifying and baseless, so I didn’t include that.
John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.
What will those executives be doing this winter?
It’s a pretty safe bet there will be some heads rolling, so I doubt there is a good plan in place yet. I’d guess the Sawx have an opinion on that too.
Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...
by Stephen Schmidt on Sep 19, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Doesn't sound awful
It’s a means of adding another talented player to the lineup without killing the budget, and may be an improvement over what Beltran could be next year. Getting Ellsbury and losing Beltran could be a good precursor to the Mets going out and getting a good starter like Kuroda or Vazquez on a 2 year deal.
we'd give them Duda, Puello, F-mart and Familia
for Ellsbury and Papelbon, I can just see it happening
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
Ugh.
Please…just…no. Too…much….stupidity.
I really hope we hire a smart GM.
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by Steve Schreiber on Sep 19, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I think I'd actually do that
F! is the only one of those four who was ever a top prospect, and his injury history and walk rate are becoming issues. Puello is raw and a long way off, Familia is promising but far from certain to be a ML starter, and Duda is fairly replaceable. Paps would be a type A at the end of next year, and if we didn’t use him as a starter (food for thought), he’d almost certainly prevent Krod from vesting and save us 17.5 million in 2012 (and likely give us a 2nd type A for after 2011). Frankly I’d rather have the two first rounders for Paps and three seasons of Ellsbury than those 4 prospects.
Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...
by Stephen Schmidt on Sep 19, 2010 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think it's safe to assume
we won’t resign Papelbon or that he’ll get a much better offer than his arb number in free agency.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
Maybe, maybe not
He’d definitely get more than 1 year via free agency, and likely enough money that it would be worth it. I just can’t see him taking a one year deal when he’d likely get a 3 or 4 pretty easily. I also think he’d still be a viable starter, as his fb is well above average, and his slider and splitter are both about average. Apparently he used to have a solid changeup before they banished him to the pen. I think if handled correctly, that trade could actually be smart.
Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...
by Stephen Schmidt on Sep 19, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
And I'm clearly operating under the assumption that Omah/Jerry are gone
Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...
by Stephen Schmidt on Sep 19, 2010 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
But if you'd take the 2 first rounders
then why not just keep Puello and Familia (and F!/Duda)?
Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Josh Byrnes/Chip Hale as Mets 2011 GM/Manager.
Because honestly 2 first rounders and Ellsbury (plus a season of paps) are likely worth more than those 4 combined.
They are all interesting prospects, but none of those guys are can’t miss guys. I’m really souring on F! since he can’t seem to learn to take a walk, and I don’t think as highly of Duda and Puello as most around here as I think corner outfielders are alot easier to find (espescially for a big budget team). Losing Familia would hurt, but he’s still less than a sure thing as well.
Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...
by Stephen Schmidt on Sep 19, 2010 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Our opinion of Puello is probably were our disagreement stems
I see him as a future 15/20 guy with great D.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Josh Byrnes/Chip Hale as Mets 2011 GM/Manager.
Like I've said a few times before, I don't value corner outfield prospects as highly as some others.
It seems like a position where talented hitters eventually end up when they can’t handle tougher positions, just looking at our community list their are likely going to be 7 of our top 14 who are options in the corners (plus F!, Nick Evans, Murph, and Flores if he ends up there). It’s tough for me to hold on to corner outfield prospects that aren’t truly elite if they could be used to make an obvious upgrade like Ellsbury and Pap. The fact that Pap could turn into very good non-corner outfield prospects also is very appealing.
Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...
by Stephen Schmidt on Sep 19, 2010 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions
even if you see him as that
that’s like 3 years away, unlikely his ceiling, where as Ellsbury is a cheap 3 WAR player now.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
Also
how in the world can we be making plans about what we’re going to be doing in the off-season if we’re plannng on hiring a new gm?
the mets are so backwards.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
because Jeff Wilpon really runs baseball operations?
And we have no hope for the future…
2009 Did Not Happen
I fear this might be the case...
Lobby to make Jeffy buy a sailboat without a radio or satellite phone.
by MookieTheCat on Sep 19, 2010 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions
If I were the Red Sox, there is no way I would trade Ellsbury for Beltran
Gas prices today are a lot like a pitcher's ERA. Anything under 3 is amazing, under 4 is pretty good and anything 5 and up is something you want to avoid.
Ellsbury is young and can hit .300 and steal 70 bases plus he is a good UZR fielder
Beltran is old and expensive and injury writen
Gas prices today are a lot like a pitcher's ERA. Anything under 3 is amazing, under 4 is pretty good and anything 5 and up is something you want to avoid.
by Bobby Baseball on Sep 19, 2010 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Injury writen?
Like Will Carroll?
Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...
by Stephen Schmidt on Sep 19, 2010 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Beltran for Ellsbury
Sign me up. Just keep our pitchers, Pagan, Ike, Wright, Reyes and Thole out of the deal.
Ellsbury IS young, but that's about it.
BBRef has him below average in CF, and maybe half a win above in the corners, and he’s a below league average hitter, so in a corner he’d be no better than whatever platoon we can cobble together from, say, Duda and Evans. He’s going to start to get expensive, he’s just come off a lost year, and the SBs are nice but are essentially window dressing.
He’s got the skills of a nice 4th OFer on a contending team who won’t kill you if he has to play a month while one of your starters is down. I wouldn’t give up much at all for him.
So here's a question (not really related, but here goes)...
why are people so ready to deal away Reyes and then say they want Ellsbury? It’s things like this that really bother me. I mean Reyes has more power, gets on base at a better clip, steals a comparable amount of bases and plays better defense than Ellsbury at a MORE IMPORTANT POSITION ON THE FIELD. I mean am I in the twilight zone or something? And not to take anything away from Ellsbury, but I’ve never heard of other teams fearing him when he’s on the bases. When Reyes is on base, he is in the pitcher’s mind and something like that, though not statistically trackable, is something to keep in mind.
Ugh I hate people.
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by Steve Schreiber on Sep 19, 2010 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions
you've never heard of teams fearing him on the base paths?
he stole 120 total bases between 08 and 09
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
I've never heard people talk about him on the bases like they talk about Reyes on the bases.
Maybe that’s just because I don’t watch Red Sox games.
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by Steve Schreiber on Sep 19, 2010 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Got me.
I don’t get the dislike for Reyes. He’s struggled a LOT over the last two years, but he had a great peak, a HOF peak for three years, and it’s not impossible that he’ll return to that peak.
My only concern with him is that he really just hasn’t been very good since 2008. If we project him for 3 wins for each of the next several years, and pay him accordingly, with a nice bonus setup that rewards him well for good health, that makes sense. But a lot of people earlier this year were talking just the opposite of your point, claiming that 5/60 was a lowball offer for Reyes. I think 5/60 at this point would be real mistake, and isn’t warranted by Reyes’ play in 2009 and 2010.
I would offer Reyes
a 4/44 contract. I think that would be fair for both sides.
Is the sun going to come up tomorrow?
I find it hard to say he's struggled a lot this year when over his last 400 PA he's hit
.311/.344/.483/.827, 20 2Bs, 6 3Bs, 11 HRs, and 22/29 in stolen bases.
That's using my patented
“His first 32 games of the season were equivalent to his spring training” system.
Nice try. We ARE talking about the same Jacoby Ellsbury?
The guy with the sub 500 OPS in a whopping 84 PAs this season?
You do realize that according to your logic Ted Williams should be in the OF mix for the Mets in 2011, given that “over his last 400 PA he’s hit”
.316/.451/.645/1.096?
Jeez, guy.
Huh--guess not. You were talking about Reyes.
But I did say “over the last two years”. Context, brother. It’s all about the context. And the injuries. When a guy with a HOF peak is having trouble getting to three wins with a handful of games left in the season, yeah, for him, that’s struggling. For a Royals SS, no, but for Reyes it’s a bad year.
Btw, I think studies have found
that hitters actually hit worse with a basestealer on 1b. Something to do with tending to take more pitches, thereby falling behind in the count more often.
Keith used to complain about that
during broadcasts that he hated seeing a runner over there bouncing around.
BBR may have him as below average, but it's looking at Totalzone numbers.
UZR rates him as average in center and exceptional in the corners. It’s also worth noting that his career .343 wOBA is above the league average of ,329 in 2009 and the .330 from 2006-2009. He’s an above average offensive player, just not a traditional corner outfielder. His combination of tools would likely make him a 3-4 WAR corner guy.
Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...
by Stephen Schmidt on Sep 20, 2010 8:21 AM EDT up reply actions
WRONGZ + REY ASS for ELLZBURY + LOWRIE!!!
Ellzbury is CLUTCH—he hit .400 in the WS!!!
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by Steve Schreiber on Sep 19, 2010 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
i actually don't think that would be that bad of a trade
I wouldn’t do it, but I could definitely see us coming out on top of it
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
L-MILLZ
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 19, 2010 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Fucking assholes.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 19, 2010 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, screw those guys.
What a bunch of morons.
May you be locked in a battle of wits against Jerry Manuel.
by BobbyV_Incognito on Sep 19, 2010 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions
They really are.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 19, 2010 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Hell holds a special place for Wright-booers
Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Josh Byrnes/Chip Hale as Mets 2011 GM/Manager.
I think most would agree that if he goes to Boston, when he’s surrounded with Big Papi and Youklis and all those other good hitters he will hit 35-40 hr a year easily. Wright is a good player but he’s not great. He needs greatness around him to be very good.
by Clifford Stclair on Sep 20, 2010 4:30 AM EDT up reply actions
So go get greatness around him
don’t get rid of him.
by Joshuah on Sep 20, 2010 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Rec'd
May you be locked in a battle of wits against Jerry Manuel.
by BobbyV_Incognito on Sep 20, 2010 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions
No no no
we must blow the team up! Mike Francesa says so!!!!
The one and only mistermet on teh Interwebz!
by Steve Schreiber on Sep 20, 2010 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions
If Mike Francesa has another appetizer...
He might blow up.
by MookieTheCat on Sep 20, 2010 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Those 8 win years were great years. At his peak Wright is far better than
merely a “very good” player.
At his peak?
Well yeah duh. But he only reaches his peak for very short spurts throughout a season. He cannot sustain any hot streak for too long. His best hot streak this year was in June when he was named player of the month. Since then he has been mediocre at best. Yes he’ll have one good game here and there but for the most part he’s been lost at the plate since the all star break. That is why overall he is just a good player, but not a great one.
by Clifford Stclair on Sep 20, 2010 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you misunderstand what Jack Str means by "peak".
At his peak, Wright was a 8 WAR player per year – not that Wright gets on a lot of hot streaks.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Josh Byrnes/Chip Hale as Mets 2011 GM/Manager.
Oh without a doubt.
We’ll end up dealing Wright, Reyes and Pagan for Bill Buckner’s glove from Game 6 and a bowl of cold New England Clam Chowder.
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by Steve Schreiber on Sep 19, 2010 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions
that's clam chowdah!
I have nothing more to add…the Mets fans are smart, but their ownership is dumb. what more can we say?
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
by feslenraster on Sep 20, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
No, most Mets fans are dumb
I’ve accepted this reality already. See above.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 20, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
ok most AA Mets' fans are smart
correction made, is that better? lol
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
by feslenraster on Sep 20, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes
AA is the exception to the rule, for the most part.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 21, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I believe that glove is already in Cooperstown...
But clam chowdah is good—delicious. So I think we do this trade.
by MookieTheCat on Sep 20, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Or they can throw in a hot plate...
Or crock pot.
by MookieTheCat on Sep 20, 2010 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions
New England is the white
Manhattan is the red
Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Josh Byrnes/Chip Hale as Mets 2011 GM/Manager.
Hard to say until we know who the GM making the trade would be
It’s kind of nice knowing that our GM might not be a detriment to the team next year.
Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...
by Stephen Schmidt on Sep 19, 2010 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions
it'd be nice if I believe it
or believed the new gm would have autonomy
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
Yeah--it looks like, at least from Sherman's article,
that he’ll be as hamstrung as Omar is, and that candidates know this, meaning that the better ones will avoid the Mets job. Sad, because the NY GM job should be a plum. Instead, it’s the opposite.
I'm sorry...
This once again seems like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic to me.
You know the Phillies had a bunch of feng shui consultants work on the design for CBP?
They did their reports while I was in school in Philly and a friend of mine was involved somehow (she was an urban planning major). Seems to have worked out for them fairly well. I tried to get my friend to invert the dragon and the phoenix but to no avail. And here we have the result.
by MookieTheCat on Sep 20, 2010 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
One time when Ellsbury stole home
I emailed my friend who is a big Sox fan to say I was impressed. He replied “well, if would be great if he could steal first…”
that is all
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