Mets 18, Cubs 5: Ruben Tejada(!!), Ike Davis Lead Offensive Explosion
The lineup busted out with 21 hits (six for extra bases) and nine walks against talented starting pitcher Ryan Dempster and a cast of joker relievers. Ruben Tejada had the game of his career, going 2-for-4 with a solo home run, a walk and five RBI. He raised his OPS from .494 to .527. Carlos Beltran and Ike Davis mashed today as well. Voltron went 2-for-3 with three walks, showing signs of (hopefully) a big final month. Ike crushed a two-run homer and went 4-for-6. Observe the busy top of the lineup in the boxscore:
Jon Niese was pedestrian (six innings, eight hits, five runs, four strikeouts) but induced three groundball double plays at crucial moments. He also went 2-for-4 at the plate with two RBI. Niese has given up 15 earned runs in his last three starts, spanning 16.1 innings, but his K:BB ratio during that span is a respectable 18:9. Additionally, his velocity is still there. It's possible he's tiring but the peripherals don't suggest as much. He's on pace to throw ~185 innings, after throwing 120 last year and 178 in 2008. Let's not fret too much about limiting Niese's innings. Of course, if he comes out throwing 81 mph next start and lies to Dan Warthen about how he's feeling, I'll change my tune. Until then, leave him be.
Nick Evans sighting!
Nick pinch-hit for Lucas Duda in the sixth inning, striking out with the bases loaded. He popped out in his next at-bat and was in danger of never playing again this season. But he singled in the ninth inning, against a righthanded pitcher, finishing the day 1-for-3. No word if Jerry Manuel noticed.
I hate to put a damper on the festivities but the following is worth mentioning. The topic of race, specifically racism, is a touchy one, and I try to tread lightly there. Discussions about it often end up in a comments section flame-war. Hopefully this doesn't descend into that. Anyway, I want to compare some comments one of my favorite announcers, Keith Hernandez, made a couple years back about Jose Reyes with something he said today about Paul O'Neill.
June 29, 2008 -- Reyes commits a throwing error during a Mets 3-1 victory over the Yankees, and slams his glove on the ground in frustration. Keith had this to say:
Keith: Well, he's got to get over that. Enough babying going on now. He's a grown man. He's been around a long enough time. Take off the kid gloves.
September 5, 2010 -- A discussion between Gary Cohen and Keith about Carlos Zambrano's improved performance and toned-down temper leads to this exchange:
Keith: When I was in the minor leagues Gary, you come out of high school hitting .500, first year I hit .256 in A-ball, next year in Double-A I hit .260. I was a water cooler breaker and a hothead. You get older, you learn to handle it.
Gary: Some guys do.
Keith: Nothing wrong with showing emotion.
Gary: Paul O'Neill was breaking water coolers when he was 38.
Keith: And I did not mind Paul O'Neill doing that. There was a passion to his game. And it's lacking in today's game.
To be clear -- I'm not accusing Keith Hernandez of overt racism. Maybe the differing perceptions of two players acting like babies has nothing to do with race. Maybe Keith's stance on player emotion has simply evolved over the years. Or he thinks water cooler bashing, an act performed by O'Neill countless times and almost always shown on Yankee broadcasts, is not as egregious a sin as throwing one's glove. Regardless, I have a sneaking suspicion that if Ruben Tejada slammed his glove down after making an error tomorrow afternoon, he wouldn't be afforded the "there's a passion to his game" treatment.
The road trip continues Monday in Washington, with Mike Pelfrey and Jordan Zimmermann kicking off a three game series at 1:05 PM.
Poem by Howard Megdal
A torrent of runs, but let's be precise
Three five-spot innings, batting 'round thrice
The hitting was so unstoppably fecund
They got run production from a guy playing second
Is Met talent the reason for hitting so fertile?
Or due to Cubs, baseball's perpetual turtle?
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fixed
over/under
16 runs combined the rest of the year
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
under--way under
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
the people at mlb.com are going to have to hire an extra body to upload the mets highlights
they’re definitely not prepared for this.
by Criss Angel Couldn't Make Frenchy Vanish on Sep 5, 2010 5:59 PM EDT reply actions
Nice to see all the kids
contributing. I’d like to see more of Duda and now that Evans is here hope he gets some starts as well. Good for Ruben also. Post game interview with KB on that HR…he says, yeah, didn’t know it was a HR, Chip told me, I said ‘thank you’.
Even though Niese wasn’t particularly sharp today, he at least made up for that early with 2 hits and 2 RBIs.
This must be a mistake.
Surely there’s a thoroughly overmatched starter in AA we can promote and humiliate?
I WANT MATT HARVEY!!!!
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And Jerry saying
Johan wants to pitch in the worst way – he feels he can pitch through it.. We’re kind of taking it out of his hands though.. At this point, it’s not worth the risk. Not sending him to NY for any kind of tests. He’ll be getting treatment. They’ll check him out when they get back to NY.
Reyes indicated he was better today. He feels he can start in one of these games in DC. Not tomorrow though.
by MetsFan4Decades on Sep 5, 2010 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions
As my girlfriend put it
“That can’t be the Mets. The only way this makes sense is if they are aliens or clones.”
"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage
by blueandorange4life on Sep 5, 2010 6:15 PM EDT reply actions
well this is nice
After being away for a week…..no Frenchy, kids contributing,etc but the overall suck continues. Jerry is still here, and WTF happened to Johan ?
Hey !. Don't talk to my mami like that.
by fxcarden on Sep 5, 2010 6:17 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Three more games like this and I'm going to have to withdraw my objections to Davis
being annointed the starter for next year—holy crap, what a month he’s having!
I was thinking that exact thing when he launched that homer.
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Now if we spread these 18 runs out over 5 or 6 games....
Oh fuck it. I’M HAPPY!!!!
Actually, isn't that what we usually do??
Oh—you probably meant in ADDITION to the three runs a game we score.
Tejada is hitting.320 over his last 10 games
As long as keeps this up, he should start every single game.
In other news...
My dog understands the words “out,” “hungry,” and “cheese.” If she keeps up this pace she will be able to rewrite the Oxford English Dictionary someday.
Is it Ruben Tejada Puppy?
When asked Thursday if he had entered the World Cup pool, Carter said: "No. I need to hit more home runs."
He should start every game regardless
He needs the experience facing major league pitching, and the games are all meaningless anyway at this point, so let him play. Will help clarify if he’s a piece of the puzzle for next year or not.
No offense, but .494 is clarity enough for me.
That’s his OPS. His slash line is .185/.278/.217/.494.
His OPS+ is 37. If he gets lucky for a month it isn’t going to change the fact that he’s currently a competent hitter only as far as AA. 2012 at the earliest.
that ops+ is laugh out loud hilarious.
but yeah…as long as he’s up here, there’s really no reason NOT to play him everyday.
John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.
believe me
if we haven’t cracked yet, i’m sure we can manage that additional weight to our onerous loud.
John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.
I don't get mad seeing Ruben play
At this point in the season I’d be happier with a team of eager, homegrown chumps than nine replacement level vets.
justin turner is likely eager
and likely way way way better than Tejada
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
He need about 20 lbs of weight
and 10 of it muscle
Texas has lost 3 in a row and have lost Josh Hamilton
indefinitely. Francoeur going to get some playing time? Texas has lost 3 in a row and 2 in the standings over the weekend.
the Francouer effect? or too soon for that joke? :)
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
Don't do that....
Before you get your Wright tattoo.
they are about to be exposed
to the Full Francoeur Experience
Motion to the floor
I hereby move that AA permanently refer to Ruben Tejada as Ruben Tejada (!!)
by Jeffrey Paternostro on Sep 5, 2010 6:59 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
With regards to the racism thing, JK
maybe he’s referring to actions in the dugout vs. on the field? I missed it, so I’m going based on what you put in quotes there
by Criss Angel Couldn't Make Frenchy Vanish on Sep 5, 2010 7:08 PM EDT reply actions
Timely though
given the controversy over the difference in how Andy Roddick and Serena Williams got treated for verbally abusing judges
Yeah, I've considered that for sure
Howie Rose sort of brought up the other night too. But I don’t buy it. The argument I’ve heard is that Reyes slamming his glove is worse because everyone can see it happen. But if a player beats the stuffing out of a water cooler, it is almost always shown on television, where tons more people are watching than in the stadium (people at the game might miss the water cooler thing). It often ends up on Sportscenter or other highlight shows too. I put the two actions on the same level.
by James Kannengieser on Sep 5, 2010 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions
You make a very good point.
I also don’t really know how this compares to players who slam their bats down when they’re performing poorly. Ike was doing that for a good month, but I can’t really remember the last time Reyes did it. I’d be interested to see if Keith/others had different reactions to that.
This whole topic also makes me wonder about the criticism you brought up earlier regarding Beltran not slamming into the brick wall today…
by Criss Angel Couldn't Make Frenchy Vanish on Sep 5, 2010 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions
About the Beltran thing...
It has been shown that slamming into brick walls hurts Latin players more than others. And Canada is apparently part of Latin America. If Jason Bay had that catch to take back, I think he (and we, as Mets fans) would support that.
Seriously, Beltran should not be criticized at all for not running into the ivy, especially with his knee still fragile. To say otherwise is just ridiculous.
Fixed
Jason Bay’s Jasiorix Baygos’ is the worst.
What, is he from Montreal now?
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Agreed.
It’s a double standard type thing. I’ve read enough where some fans…even some Met fans..think Jose is over the top whether it’s frustration or ‘showboating’.
Reyes, IMO, is not over the top. The kid just wears his emotions on his sleeve, which is complete polar opposite of someone like Beltran.
And isn’t this one of the reasons Reyes is recorded as one of the most energetic and exciting lead off hitters in the game today?
by MetsFan4Decades on Sep 5, 2010 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions
There's a double standard there, IMO, but as for Keith ...
… he was one of the leading Gregg Jeffries haters in the late ‘80s, and one of his beefs was Jeffries’ penchant for expressing his emotions, ala bat throwing, etc. Over the years I think his prejudice has been mainly against younger players.
by KranepoolRools on Sep 5, 2010 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I could see Jose being really annoying if he was your roomate
But as a ballplayer, he’s a lot of fun to watch. You can see that he likes getting up and going to work each day.
Agree
Not trying to be an apologist or Keith, but it seems like a mix of the following:
1) Holding Mets to higher standards and/or feeling that they are more fair game for criticism.
2) Keith has a touch of the “get off of my lawn” when evaluating younger players vs. older players.
I’m also surprised and fairly pleased with how Gary and Keith seem to be on Team Nyjer regarding his week from hell.
I didn't know the Nyjer thing but it makes sense...
It fits in well with the traditionalist approach I talk about below.
by MookieTheCat on Sep 6, 2010 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions
it's kind of hilarious how the same people who claim
this team has on heart or passion for the game complain about Reyes.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
by Gina on Sep 5, 2010 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
my thing with Reyes
is his sense of proportion, and lack thereof. he gets a single in a nothing game and he is pointing in his dugout, smacking his chest, pointing to heaven. Overkill. And the argument that he is just a kid? He is 27, he is not a kid, he is just very immature. Will he ever grow up? There is nothing wrong with a show of emotion from players sometimes. Usually it is because they are mad at themselves. I don’t mind that. I think Keith considered throwing the glove on the field bad form. What I dislike is the narcissistic displays like Jose’s that antagonize the opposition and that he explains away with his lame “I gotta be me” line. He doesn’t “gotta be me”—-he has to conform to codes of professionalism, show that he “gets it”, learn the game, grow up some. Maybe that is why he has not really improved since his first few years in the league. For all of his silliness, O’Neill was able to channel his anger and deliver the goods. He also ad the respect of his peers.
in addition, I guess it is really
more of a case of the lack of player development at the major league level. I am not sure that the mets do a very good job of it at even the minor league level. But Jose is basically what he was when he got here at 20. A guy with great tools (perhaps slightly diminished due to his health woes), bad baseball instincts, and capable of pretty childish behavior. He also hasn’t learned a lot about thinking the game from his teammates or caoches. I think today’s millionaires do not really take guy’s under their wing or peer pressure them like they used to.Or perhaps the young millionaires feel they have made it and don’t have to listen. Keith is trapped in the culture of baseball past. I dont think racism enters into it. He was a contemporary of Paul O’Neill, when everybody did things “right”. So he excuses the rest of it.
And you know all of this about Reyes how?
Just because he claps his hands after sliding into 3B or points to his teammates in the dugout after getting a hit (both of which are very common gestures) doesn’t mean he’s an immature, insolent child who disrespects the game and refuses to “grow up”… It means he’s hitting triples, getting hits, and has a love or the game which is all to often treated as just a job today.
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um
his wOBA is like a 30-40 point difference from when he got here when he was 20. How can you claim he’s the exact same player?
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
I should have been clearer
His first year and a half he was riddled with injury. He had the hamstrings and the cracked leg and the crazy change in running style—I was thinking of the salad years which followed. He is not the player now that he was then. all you really need to know that is a pair of eyes.
who said he NEVER delivers?
I just said i do not like his immaturity. And I know only what I see from him. I don;t find it
and where in my post do I psychoanalyze the guy?
Maybe you should read the post, instead of getting on your uppers. I said this is based on "mytake"of the guy. And all I mention is what I see from watching hiim play hundreds of games. If you like that stuff, that is fine. I don’t think Jose has any more passion for the game than DW or a lot of other people, who conduct themselves in a more professional mannerthan he chooses to do. It isn’t about talent. Just lack of growth.
For all of his silliness, O’Neill was able to channel his anger and deliver the goods. He also ad the respect of his peers.
pretty implicit, bud
John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.
Most of it was pretty explicit if you ask me.
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I will be explicit
I don’t deny his production when he produces. I don’t particularly like to watch him play but he has had productive years. There is no denying it. I do not think he has improved in the last few years, a career stage when players show a lot of improvement. I don’t see that he has become a more polished player. That could be the non-existent major league coaching which I suspect has been his lot as a met, and which I mentioned in the earlier post. He still has a lot of rough edges, and whereas once I thought they would be ironed out, now I do not have the same confidence that they will. I like players who have some style and professionalism. That is my personal preference. That is called an opinion. Live with it. And try reading more carefully. Or don’t read at all. Whatever.
pretty sure this is the key to understanding your argument
I don’t particularly like to watch him play…
John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.
It was central to my point since I said I don't like the antics-I do not
enjoy the act. But I never said he was not productive. and I still think his behavior is immature for a 27 year ole, 7 year vet.
Too bad the Mets couldn't hit like this all year
they would be in 1st place, have the best record in baseball and would be going to the playoffs…………i guess hitting like this once a year for Mets fans, is all the can give us…….lol
True
There’s a double standard at work, of course; Serena and Roddick is not a perfect example, given how egregious the content of Serena’s meltdown was (‘I will shove this ball down your f#$@ing throat’), but the way it was handled definitely speaks to the difference in the way things are handled when it comes to these things.
In this instance, Reyes and other Latin players throughout the years have been stereotyped as ‘hot-heads’, ‘showboats’, etc. While some of this has certainly died down over the years (to baseball’s and society’s credit), such stereotypes are deeply ingrained in cultural discourse and cannot be dislodged without decades of diligence and shifting attitudes.
That said, what I think (and hope) Keith is pointing to is the difference between showing frustration on the field and saving such tirades for when one is in the dugout. Given that meltdowns are going to be seen on TV regardless, it seems inconsequential, but in the course of a game I can certainly see where one such expression could be seen as an expression of mental weakness by the opposite side and the other as a private expression of frustration. At least, I hope that’s what it means
by ProustianDisplay on Sep 5, 2010 7:55 PM EDT reply actions
I don't really agree. Plenty of white players have gotten plenty of shit for being assholes.
The most hated player of his time? Dave Kingman, hands down.
I heard of WFAN an inning afterwards that Tejada did something really smart to get Castro out.
But what was it exactly?
I think it was on the play where Davis threw to 2nd to get the lead runner on a Castro fielder's choice...
Castro thought the inning was over for whatever reason although he was safe on 1st. He started trotting towards his dugout by the pitcher’s mound. Rather than just toss the ball to the pitcher after the out, Tejada scanned the infield, saw Castro’s goof, and got the ball to Ike really quickly, right before Castro got back from the middle of the infield. I’m guessing that they were saying that Tejada stayed aware of what was going on around him. As Keith would say: fundies.
Kind of
It was more the fact that he held the ball on that play, and waited for Castro to get far enough off the bag before throwing.
by Mike Clemente on Sep 5, 2010 10:21 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I don't want to comment on the whole race issue
except to point out the seeming absurdity of a guy whose last name is Hernandez and whose nickname is “Mex” being called out for calling out the Hispanic kid while praising the white guy.
2009 Did Not Happen
I doubt Keith considers himself Hispanic
He has Spanish heritage, which is in some ways a lot closer to white, than say, Dominican or Venezuelan, and I’ve never heard himself or someone else even talk about his Spanish-ness.
Not saying it isn’t off, just that it’s not absurd.
Also, know I want to know what went down in the comments section. And I still want to know what happened the other day, with Dickey, although that I’m not too sure about.
I bet Jerry Manuel just bunted.
yea, I know
that’s why I qualified absurd with “seemingly” – it just seems kinda strange, although in reality it’s probably not.
2009 Did Not Happen
Odd note...
Prior to integration players from Spain could play in the majors, but most players from Latin America were excluded due to racial mixing.
I don’t think Keith had any racial animus from what I have heard. He is will known for describing similar situations in different ways depending on his mood. He probably just wishes he could be as happy as Reyes nowadays.
I don't think it's really in some way closer
I think it’s pretty clearly closer. I’m pretty sure the Spanish, as in from Spain, are known for being one of the more outwardly racist cultures in Europe.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
Ii am pretty sure keith does not even speak Spanish. I thought he mentioned that on abroadcast once.
He does sometimes give
comic little lessons in one-word translation, but yeah, I don’t think he really speaks Spanish
Right
but it might, on whatever level, have to do with being a black-white thing, Hispanic-ness aside.
Keith doesn't have much of a filter.
I just don’t think he is always saying what he believes-I think he just talks
Racism and Keith Hernandez
Keith Hernandez has said many comments which carried a tone not to be mistaken with racism. Keith Hernandez is Puerto Rican and has had to deal with many stereotypes in his day and that Keith decides to once in a while use stereotypes to make a comment/joke is okay, hey its the American way in a way. What Keith is doing invoking race in his humor is a light form of bigotry and not racism. Being that Keith was in direct contact with the sports culture of America I feel his commentary is aimed at that demmograph. That is what makes Keith so effective at keeping you into the game and not by giving you stats upon stats but rather a gut reaction to what is going in the field. Not to excuse his behavior but not to make a big deal of it anyway, its baseball. I think Keith should be more involved in sportscasting for the Mets because he is very entertaining. Now if people find it offensive out there I am sure he will tone it down.
Keith isn't Puerto Rican.
His dad is of Spanish origin and he grew up around San Fransisco.
Although I agree with most of your post, kinda, I don’t think there’s a good chance Keith will tone it down much. There’s a reason the “Keith Hernandez moment” and “I’m Keith Hernandez moment” have been coined. Actually, he has toned down his comments re: women in the past few years.
What sport are we talking about?
Is this chess? Competitive eating?
by MookieTheCat on Sep 5, 2010 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Any answer would have been acceptable
I have yet to dip into a 120, but any of them get you where you need to be.
by HotChipWillBreakYourLegs on Sep 5, 2010 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm still waiting for the day that I see...
Dogfish IPA, St. Louis Missouri.
Beer Wars aside, it’s gonna happen.
by MookieTheCat on Sep 5, 2010 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I love the 120 when i can get my hands on it
and they’ll definitely bury you quick
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Sep 5, 2010 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not ashamed to say
That the 120 is overkill. It’s like the “insanity” hot wings you have to sign a waiver for, but with hops. It stays with you so you can’t enjoy any other food or drink that night. It is good if you’re only having one, though.
Image credit to astromets
by hotspur on Sep 5, 2010 11:57 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
oh yeah, the 120 isn't meant to be drank in large quantities
one should last you a while.
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Sep 6, 2010 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions
seriously
With post game recaps like that about hernandez make me never want to come to this site again. Absolutely retarted
by Longislandnole on Sep 5, 2010 8:44 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Well done.
And by that I mean misspelling “retarded.”
What exactly do you find offensive about the recap and discussion?
I apologize to anyone who grew up on/lives on/loves long island. I'm sure it's lovely
by HotChipWillBreakYourLegs on Sep 5, 2010 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Eh, your not missing anything special.
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Nah, j/k.
But still, check out the AA rules on things like politics and the like. Up in the top right near the Welcome Guide.
by MookieTheCat on Sep 6, 2010 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions
It's spelled gnoll
Hangs out with goblins, carries a big club. 2d8 hit dice, iirc.
Image credit to astromets
by hotspur on Sep 5, 2010 11:59 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Dude...
Get in on my D&D Mets thing. Lots of good photos for the MSPainting at http://www.iwozhere.com/SRD/Gallery.html :P
by MookieTheCat on Sep 6, 2010 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions
and yeah, i take what you say very seriously
when the last comment you made was, and i quote:
gaytors still losong!
shakespearean stuff there, pal
John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.
seriously?
drink some fucking beers you gimps.
by Longislandnole on Sep 6, 2010 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions
lololololwut
this is the best response ever. i DEMAND we make this a meme.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
there called the fucking "GAYtors" for a reason
act like you got a good education you child
by Longislandnole on Sep 6, 2010 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions
I know some folks who went to Florida State who got a good education...
They would be ashamed at this.
by MookieTheCat on Sep 6, 2010 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh I added a few grammar errors in there for your benefit.
Just to make you feel at home.
by MookieTheCat on Sep 6, 2010 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I'm thinking...
But I went to Staten Island College so what do I know.
by MookieTheCat on Sep 6, 2010 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Wow...
You would have thought I would have leanred the name during my matriculation,.
sorry, they didn't teach me about derogatory nicknames for Florida state universities in my high school in New Jersey
John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.
Not in Obama's America.
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Not, not there.
But someplace else called Long Island where you can drink a fucking beer you gimp.
Canada is awesome in many ways
and a drinking age of 18 in Québec, Manitoba, and Alberta, and 19 in every other province, has gotta be high on the list – probably right after Canadian beer in general.
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Hahhahahaah Ogre...
I was 18 and living within a day’s drive of Montreal long ago. Didn’t hurt that I had family friends there who I could crash with either. Toronto was one of my old raver stomps. Much better after 18 and much worse in February than anyplace on earth, but yeah.
"Retarted", huh?
So you not only received ONE tart, but you also received a SECOND. Oh man, I guess that means you’re retarted.
Consequences will never be the same.
by NetsMets4Life on Sep 5, 2010 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think Keith was being racist. I heard what he said today (amazing, yes ,I watched some of it
I think that’s just his brand of humor.
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
Also he may have been drinking
Image credit to astromets
by hotspur on Sep 6, 2010 12:00 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
It was a long day too.
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You know what...I've been thinking about the Keith thing...
Here’s an alternative hypothesis. For whatever he is, it’s clear that Keith is a traditionalist. From his comments on women in the dugout to his approach to the game, I think Keith views himself as an “old time” player where you worked hard, didn’t get paid much, knew and respected the unwiritten rules, drank scotch, smoked stogies, had groupies, and wore tight uniforms. Rather than the distinction between Reyes and O’Neill being the product of a racial distinction (which I don’t think it is), I think if it is indicative of anything it is indicative of the idea that O’Neill had paid his dues at that point, whereas Reyes is still rather young (and seems younger than he is). If you see Keith’s comments about himself being a hothead, he he takes himself to task for his actions when he was young. What he doesn’t mention was that he had his moments later in his career; I remember him swatting a batting helmet or two, among other things. But by then he had paid his dues so he was allowed the indiscretion.
Ah...
I’m a traditionalist vis a vis the game (well, at least in certain respects). Thus my spirited defense both of plunking batters as a normative mechanism and charging the mound for the same purpose. This also explains my opposition to replay cameras. I also believe in paying your dues, both within the baseball world and without. Each of these things can be argued about, but I don’t think you should call him out on it. It’s one view of the game.
Fair enough
I’m split on these things. I am pro-plunking/mound charging, but anti-rookies-having-to-prove-themselves-against-crappy-declining-vets.
Looking for something else to call Keith out
strikes me as a witch hunt, particularly after raising the specter of racism. In the U.S., racism is very touchy territory. False accusations should not be raised, not just because it can unfairly tarnish reputations, but more importantly because it diminishes the strength of valid grievances.
Well
racism is no better or worse than several other forms of bigotry. But it’s certainly more serious than saying “get off my lawn”. However, while I don’t think Keith is necessarily being overtly racist, I think it does come a lot easier to people to criticise black players for things that they would praise in white players. This is purely anecdotal and a fairly small sample size (I’ve only spent maybe 6 months total in the US), but equally I don’t have the baggage.
Having a go at him for being an old-school blowhard is separate from criticising racism, not a substitute.
Lemme make myself clear...
I wasn’t trying to call him out for being a traditionalist. I was trying to explain his approach to young guys v. old guys. “Old school” =/= “old school blowhard” in my book. If oh, let’s say, Nick Evans or Ike Davis started throwing things, I think he might get the Reyes treatment because he hasn’t paid his dues.
Oh no,
I wasn’t putting words into your mouth. That was my view, and mine alone. I find Keith insufferably old-fashioned in a very hackneyed way sometimes, but I still like him. He needs Gary and Ronnie to keep him in place.
Ah hah....
Yeah, re-reading the posts above this is relatively clear. There’s a reason Seinfeld chose Keith. Even when he was young he was a cocky, arrogant ass part of the time. He has toned it down a LOT over the years.
Good ideas, for real
Maybe in 10 years we can test the hypothesis — have Jose do something “babyish” and see what Keith thinks. That is, if Keith is still announcing (I bet he isn’t by then).
by James Kannengieser on Sep 5, 2010 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Too bad we're not getting Manny...
We could test this theory within a week.
by MookieTheCat on Sep 5, 2010 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Reyes has been in the majors 7 years!
How long does it take to pay your dues?
Image credit to astromets
by hotspur on Sep 6, 2010 12:04 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I dunno...
He still looks like he’s 15 sometimes. But yeah, I get your point.
by MookieTheCat on Sep 6, 2010 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Is not the subject of this board?
Will repeat the failures of the past few years?
Is located in Florida?
Has a mildly offensive mascot?
Needs to work on its English department?
Has very pretty girls?
I’m just not getting your point here.
by MookieTheCat on Sep 6, 2010 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions
ogggie
just suck a dick when FSU wins the natl champ in 3 years. not the forum for this
by Longislandnole on Sep 6, 2010 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions
I will gladly suck a dick....
If FSU is the national champ. Looks like I better get some mouthwash in oh, say, 2075.
by MookieTheCat on Sep 6, 2010 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I would be 97 then...
Given my penchant for smoking and drinking, I’m not too worried.
I love the "not the forum for this" part
right after telling someone to “suck a dick”.
It’s so wonderfully contradictory.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Josh Byrnes/Chip Hale as Mets 2011 GM/Manager.
I think it underscores and supports...
The “no sense of irony” thing above.
But
I want to suck a dick now, not three years from now, that’s my stance
by deadspy3 on Sep 6, 2010 8:49 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
One of the guys on my hockey team went to FSU
he transfered to Hofstra…
Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Josh Byrnes/Chip Hale as Mets 2011 GM/Manager.
Don't worry...
We don’t hold it against FSU or FSU grads. But yeah, that guy.
yeah ok buddy
give it 3 years TOPS
fucking it will happen. get on a college website and learn what you are talking about
i demand you make a fanpost
i’d like to know more of your opinions on things.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon
by Gina on Sep 6, 2010 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Oh btw...Props to Megdal...
If I could rec tonight’s poem I would. He used both fertile and fecund. Great use of synonyms in poetic volley. Well done.
Oh man
I missed some diamond-encrusted trolling last night! I’m just going to shout FSU at people in the street now, then apologise and tell them that the street really isn’t the forum for that, then tell them to suck a dick in three years’ time.
by deadspy3 on Sep 6, 2010 8:48 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Yeah it was fun...
I held him off for a little bit, then Gina showed up and lowered the boom.
It's weird
it seems often when there’s a troll herel, I’m the target of the attack that eventually becomes a meme. The priceless “gimp” comment here, and prior to that when I was called a “tim kurkjen wannabe”
John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.
Your "Shakespearian Stuff" line was great.
Perhaps you’re memeworthy in response because your comments arouse a certain level of embarrasing ire.
by MookieTheCat on Sep 6, 2010 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions
In fairness to Keith
I do think that if Reyes had smashed a water cooler instead of throwing his glove, Keith would not have gone on that tirade. Now, if you asked Keith which was a more egregious sin, I’m not sure he’d have an answer (in fact if I had to bet on whether he’d have an answer or his head would explode, I’d go with head explode), but just psychologically speaking I’d speculate the biggest difference is that one act happens on the field and the other in the dugout. That seems to be a sticking point for Keith, in fact I think there was another discussion he was having about bad behavior and in a different circumstance lately when he specifically made this point, that once you get in the dugout its “okay” to engage in more emotional behavior, but on the field you should be a “professional” at all times.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Sep 6, 2010 12:57 PM EDT reply actions
Was it the Beltran/Wright bat smashing you're thinking of?
Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Josh Byrnes/Chip Hale as Mets 2011 GM/Manager.
Yeah I think that's what it was
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Sep 7, 2010 2:35 AM EDT up reply actions

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