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Mets 18, Cubs 5: Ruben Tejada(!!), Ike Davis Lead Offensive Explosion

The lineup busted out with 21 hits (six for extra bases) and nine walks against talented starting pitcher Ryan Dempster and a cast of joker relievers. Ruben Tejada had the game of his career, going 2-for-4 with a solo home run, a walk and five RBI. He raised his OPS from .494 to .527. Carlos Beltran and Ike Davis mashed today as well. Voltron went 2-for-3 with three walks, showing signs of (hopefully) a big final month. Ike crushed a two-run homer and went 4-for-6. Observe the busy top of the lineup in the boxscore:

Metscubsblowout_medium

Jon Niese was pedestrian (six innings, eight hits, five runs, four strikeouts) but induced three groundball double plays at crucial moments. He also went 2-for-4 at the plate with two RBI. Niese has given up 15 earned runs in his last three starts, spanning 16.1 innings, but his K:BB ratio during that span is a respectable 18:9. Additionally, his velocity is still there. It's possible he's tiring but the peripherals don't suggest as much. He's on pace to throw ~185 innings, after throwing 120 last year and 178 in 2008. Let's not fret too much about limiting Niese's innings. Of course, if he comes out throwing 81 mph next start and lies to Dan Warthen about how he's feeling, I'll change my tune. Until then, leave him be.

Nick Evans sighting!

Drudge_medium

Nick pinch-hit for Lucas Duda in the sixth inning, striking out with the bases loaded. He popped out in his next at-bat and was in danger of never playing again this season. But he singled in the ninth inning, against a righthanded pitcher, finishing the day 1-for-3. No word if Jerry Manuel noticed.

I hate to put a damper on the festivities but the following is worth mentioning. The topic of race, specifically racism, is a touchy one, and I try to tread lightly there. Discussions about it often end up in a comments section flame-war. Hopefully this doesn't descend into that. Anyway, I want to compare some comments one of my favorite announcers, Keith Hernandez, made a couple years back about Jose Reyes with something he said today about Paul O'Neill.

June 29, 2008 -- Reyes commits a throwing error during a Mets 3-1 victory over the Yankees, and slams his glove on the ground in frustration. Keith had this to say:

Keith: Well, he's got to get over that. Enough babying going on now. He's a grown man. He's been around a long enough time. Take off the kid gloves.

September 5, 2010 -- A discussion between Gary Cohen and Keith about Carlos Zambrano's improved performance and toned-down temper leads to this exchange:

Keith: When I was in the minor leagues Gary, you come out of high school hitting .500, first year I hit .256 in A-ball, next year in Double-A I hit .260. I was a water cooler breaker and a hothead. You get older, you learn to handle it.

Gary: Some guys do.

Keith: Nothing wrong with showing emotion.

Gary: Paul O'Neill was breaking water coolers when he was 38.

Keith: And I did not mind Paul O'Neill doing that. There was a passion to his game. And it's lacking in today's game.

To be clear -- I'm not accusing Keith Hernandez of overt racism. Maybe the differing perceptions of two players acting like babies has nothing to do with race. Maybe Keith's stance on player emotion has simply evolved over the years. Or he thinks water cooler bashing, an act performed by O'Neill countless times and almost always shown on Yankee broadcasts, is not as egregious a sin as throwing one's glove. Regardless, I have a sneaking suspicion that if Ruben Tejada slammed his glove down after making an error tomorrow afternoon, he wouldn't be afforded the "there's a passion to his game" treatment.

The road trip continues Monday in Washington, with Mike Pelfrey and Jordan Zimmermann kicking off a three game series at 1:05 PM.

Poem by Howard Megdal

A torrent of runs, but let's be precise
Three five-spot innings, batting 'round thrice
The hitting was so unstoppably fecund
They got run production from a guy playing second
Is Met talent the reason for hitting so fertile?
Or due to Cubs, baseball's perpetual turtle?

Comment 201 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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over/under

16 runs combined the rest of the week?

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon

by Gina on Sep 5, 2010 5:57 PM EDT reply actions  

fixed

over/under
16 runs combined the rest of the year

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Sep 5, 2010 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

under--way under

"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"

by feslenraster on Sep 5, 2010 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Tejada had 5 RBIs, not 3.

by Wei on Sep 5, 2010 6:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Nice to see all the kids

contributing. I’d like to see more of Duda and now that Evans is here hope he gets some starts as well. Good for Ruben also. Post game interview with KB on that HR…he says, yeah, didn’t know it was a HR, Chip told me, I said ‘thank you’.

Even though Niese wasn’t particularly sharp today, he at least made up for that early with 2 hits and 2 RBIs.

by MetsFan4Decades on Sep 5, 2010 6:10 PM EDT reply actions  

Johan skipping a start

says Carlin.
D. Gee promoted and will make the start instead.

by MetsFan4Decades on Sep 5, 2010 6:10 PM EDT reply actions  

gee!?!?

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon

by Gina on Sep 5, 2010 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yup

Need that high draft pick.

by Russ on Sep 5, 2010 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

This must be a mistake.

Surely there’s a thoroughly overmatched starter in AA we can promote and humiliate?

by Jack Str on Sep 5, 2010 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I WANT MATT HARVEY!!!!

Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Josh Byrnes/Chip Hale as Mets 2011 GM/Manager.

by Ogre39666 on Sep 5, 2010 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

And Jerry saying

Johan wants to pitch in the worst way – he feels he can pitch through it.. We’re kind of taking it out of his hands though.. At this point, it’s not worth the risk. Not sending him to NY for any kind of tests. He’ll be getting treatment. They’ll check him out when they get back to NY.

Reyes indicated he was better today. He feels he can start in one of these games in DC. Not tomorrow though.

by MetsFan4Decades on Sep 5, 2010 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am sure

there is nothing really wrong (wink! wink!)-sfter all, he said a=everything was fine

by jdon on Sep 6, 2010 7:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

As my girlfriend put it

“That can’t be the Mets. The only way this makes sense is if they are aliens or clones.”

"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage

by blueandorange4life on Sep 5, 2010 6:15 PM EDT reply actions  

well this is nice

After being away for a week…..no Frenchy, kids contributing,etc but the overall suck continues. Jerry is still here, and WTF happened to Johan ?

Hey !. Don't talk to my mami like that.

by fxcarden on Sep 5, 2010 6:17 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

yeah

he said he pulled a muscle in his arm (referencing his pec) and the doctor corrected him and he said “I don’t know much about anatomy”

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon

by Gina on Sep 5, 2010 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Three more games like this and I'm going to have to withdraw my objections to Davis

being annointed the starter for next year—holy crap, what a month he’s having!

by Jack Str on Sep 5, 2010 6:18 PM EDT reply actions  

I was thinking that exact thing when he launched that homer.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Josh Byrnes/Chip Hale as Mets 2011 GM/Manager.

by Ogre39666 on Sep 5, 2010 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually, isn't that what we usually do??

Oh—you probably meant in ADDITION to the three runs a game we score.

by Jack Str on Sep 5, 2010 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sad...

But yes, that it what I meant.

by MookieTheCat on Sep 5, 2010 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Tejada is hitting.320 over his last 10 games

As long as keeps this up, he should start every single game.

by Russ on Sep 5, 2010 6:32 PM EDT reply actions  

In other news...

My dog understands the words “out,” “hungry,” and “cheese.” If she keeps up this pace she will be able to rewrite the Oxford English Dictionary someday.

by MookieTheCat on Sep 5, 2010 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is it Ruben Tejada Puppy?

When asked Thursday if he had entered the World Cup pool, Carter said: "No. I need to hit more home runs."

by isles732 on Sep 5, 2010 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

He should start every game regardless

He needs the experience facing major league pitching, and the games are all meaningless anyway at this point, so let him play. Will help clarify if he’s a piece of the puzzle for next year or not.

by steve2z on Sep 5, 2010 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

No offense, but .494 is clarity enough for me.

That’s his OPS. His slash line is .185/.278/.217/.494.

His OPS+ is 37. If he gets lucky for a month it isn’t going to change the fact that he’s currently a competent hitter only as far as AA. 2012 at the earliest.

by Jack Str on Sep 5, 2010 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

that ops+ is laugh out loud hilarious.

but yeah…as long as he’s up here, there’s really no reason NOT to play him everyday.

John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.

by squid92 on Sep 5, 2010 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

our sanity's sake?

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon

by Gina on Sep 5, 2010 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

believe me

if we haven’t cracked yet, i’m sure we can manage that additional weight to our onerous loud.

John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.

by squid92 on Sep 5, 2010 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't get mad seeing Ruben play

At this point in the season I’d be happier with a team of eager, homegrown chumps than nine replacement level vets.

by deadspy3 on Sep 5, 2010 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

justin turner is likely eager

and likely way way way better than Tejada

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon

by Gina on Sep 5, 2010 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's true

I’d be happy with Turner there too

by deadspy3 on Sep 5, 2010 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Texas has lost 3 in a row and have lost Josh Hamilton

indefinitely. Francoeur going to get some playing time? Texas has lost 3 in a row and 2 in the standings over the weekend.

by TDJ on Sep 5, 2010 6:56 PM EDT reply actions  

the Francouer effect? or too soon for that joke? :)

"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"

by feslenraster on Sep 5, 2010 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

i would die of lulz

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon

by Gina on Sep 5, 2010 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't do that....

Before you get your Wright tattoo.

by MookieTheCat on Sep 5, 2010 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great

Francouer goes to Texas and makes me lose my 16/1 bet on them for the WS

by deadspy3 on Sep 5, 2010 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

With regards to the racism thing, JK

maybe he’s referring to actions in the dugout vs. on the field? I missed it, so I’m going based on what you put in quotes there

by Criss Angel Couldn't Make Frenchy Vanish on Sep 5, 2010 7:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Timely though

given the controversy over the difference in how Andy Roddick and Serena Williams got treated for verbally abusing judges

by deadspy3 on Sep 5, 2010 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I've considered that for sure

Howie Rose sort of brought up the other night too. But I don’t buy it. The argument I’ve heard is that Reyes slamming his glove is worse because everyone can see it happen. But if a player beats the stuffing out of a water cooler, it is almost always shown on television, where tons more people are watching than in the stadium (people at the game might miss the water cooler thing). It often ends up on Sportscenter or other highlight shows too. I put the two actions on the same level.

by James Kannengieser on Sep 5, 2010 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

You make a very good point.

I also don’t really know how this compares to players who slam their bats down when they’re performing poorly. Ike was doing that for a good month, but I can’t really remember the last time Reyes did it. I’d be interested to see if Keith/others had different reactions to that.

This whole topic also makes me wonder about the criticism you brought up earlier regarding Beltran not slamming into the brick wall today…

by Criss Angel Couldn't Make Frenchy Vanish on Sep 5, 2010 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

About the Beltran thing...

It has been shown that slamming into brick walls hurts Latin players more than others. And Canada is apparently part of Latin America. If Jason Bay had that catch to take back, I think he (and we, as Mets fans) would support that.

Seriously, Beltran should not be criticized at all for not running into the ivy, especially with his knee still fragile. To say otherwise is just ridiculous.

by MookieTheCat on Sep 5, 2010 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fixed

Jason Bay’s Jasiorix Baygos’ is the worst.

by MookieTheCat on Sep 5, 2010 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

What, is he from Montreal now?

Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Josh Byrnes/Chip Hale as Mets 2011 GM/Manager.

by Ogre39666 on Sep 5, 2010 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

It’s a double standard type thing. I’ve read enough where some fans…even some Met fans..think Jose is over the top whether it’s frustration or ‘showboating’.

Reyes, IMO, is not over the top. The kid just wears his emotions on his sleeve, which is complete polar opposite of someone like Beltran.

And isn’t this one of the reasons Reyes is recorded as one of the most energetic and exciting lead off hitters in the game today?

by MetsFan4Decades on Sep 5, 2010 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

There's a double standard there, IMO, but as for Keith ...

… he was one of the leading Gregg Jeffries haters in the late ‘80s, and one of his beefs was Jeffries’ penchant for expressing his emotions, ala bat throwing, etc. Over the years I think his prejudice has been mainly against younger players.

by KranepoolRools on Sep 5, 2010 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

I could see Jose being really annoying if he was your roomate

But as a ballplayer, he’s a lot of fun to watch. You can see that he likes getting up and going to work each day.

by MookieTheCat on Sep 5, 2010 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agree

Not trying to be an apologist or Keith, but it seems like a mix of the following:

1) Holding Mets to higher standards and/or feeling that they are more fair game for criticism.

2) Keith has a touch of the “get off of my lawn” when evaluating younger players vs. older players.

I’m also surprised and fairly pleased with how Gary and Keith seem to be on Team Nyjer regarding his week from hell.

by theflicker on Sep 6, 2010 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

I didn't know the Nyjer thing but it makes sense...

It fits in well with the traditionalist approach I talk about below.

by MookieTheCat on Sep 6, 2010 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

it's kind of hilarious how the same people who claim

this team has on heart or passion for the game complain about Reyes.

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon

by Gina on Sep 5, 2010 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

Exactly

I’ve made this point on previous threads. Francoeur gets praised for his grission, while Reyes is an immature showboat. F’n ridiculous.

by dcmetsfan on Sep 6, 2010 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

my thing with Reyes

is his sense of proportion, and lack thereof. he gets a single in a nothing game and he is pointing in his dugout, smacking his chest, pointing to heaven. Overkill. And the argument that he is just a kid? He is 27, he is not a kid, he is just very immature. Will he ever grow up? There is nothing wrong with a show of emotion from players sometimes. Usually it is because they are mad at themselves. I don’t mind that. I think Keith considered throwing the glove on the field bad form. What I dislike is the narcissistic displays like Jose’s that antagonize the opposition and that he explains away with his lame “I gotta be me” line. He doesn’t “gotta be me”—-he has to conform to codes of professionalism, show that he “gets it”, learn the game, grow up some. Maybe that is why he has not really improved since his first few years in the league. For all of his silliness, O’Neill was able to channel his anger and deliver the goods. He also ad the respect of his peers.

by jdon on Sep 6, 2010 7:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

in addition, I guess it is really

more of a case of the lack of player development at the major league level. I am not sure that the mets do a very good job of it at even the minor league level. But Jose is basically what he was when he got here at 20. A guy with great tools (perhaps slightly diminished due to his health woes), bad baseball instincts, and capable of pretty childish behavior. He also hasn’t learned a lot about thinking the game from his teammates or caoches. I think today’s millionaires do not really take guy’s under their wing or peer pressure them like they used to.Or perhaps the young millionaires feel they have made it and don’t have to listen. Keith is trapped in the culture of baseball past. I dont think racism enters into it. He was a contemporary of Paul O’Neill, when everybody did things “right”. So he excuses the rest of it.

by jdon on Sep 6, 2010 8:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

And you know all of this about Reyes how?

Just because he claps his hands after sliding into 3B or points to his teammates in the dugout after getting a hit (both of which are very common gestures) doesn’t mean he’s an immature, insolent child who disrespects the game and refuses to “grow up”… It means he’s hitting triples, getting hits, and has a love or the game which is all to often treated as just a job today.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Josh Byrnes/Chip Hale as Mets 2011 GM/Manager.

by Ogre39666 on Sep 6, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

um

his wOBA is like a 30-40 point difference from when he got here when he was 20. How can you claim he’s the exact same player?

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon

by Gina on Sep 6, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

I should have been clearer

His first year and a half he was riddled with injury. He had the hamstrings and the cracked leg and the crazy change in running style—I was thinking of the salad years which followed. He is not the player now that he was then. all you really need to know that is a pair of eyes.

by jdon on Sep 6, 2010 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, Reyes NEVER delivers

John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.

by squid92 on Sep 6, 2010 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

who said he NEVER delivers?

I just said i do not like his immaturity. And I know only what I see from him. I don;t find it

by jdon on Sep 6, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

and where in my post do I psychoanalyze the guy?

Maybe you should read the post, instead of getting on your uppers. I said this is based on "mytake"of the guy. And all I mention is what I see from watching hiim play hundreds of games. If you like that stuff, that is fine. I don’t think Jose has any more passion for the game than DW or a lot of other people, who conduct themselves in a more professional mannerthan he chooses to do. It isn’t about talent. Just lack of growth.

by jdon on Sep 6, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

For all of his silliness, O’Neill was able to channel his anger and deliver the goods. He also ad the respect of his peers.

pretty implicit, bud

John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.

by squid92 on Sep 6, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Most of it was pretty explicit if you ask me.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Josh Byrnes/Chip Hale as Mets 2011 GM/Manager.

by Ogre39666 on Sep 6, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I will be explicit

I don’t deny his production when he produces. I don’t particularly like to watch him play but he has had productive years. There is no denying it. I do not think he has improved in the last few years, a career stage when players show a lot of improvement. I don’t see that he has become a more polished player. That could be the non-existent major league coaching which I suspect has been his lot as a met, and which I mentioned in the earlier post. He still has a lot of rough edges, and whereas once I thought they would be ironed out, now I do not have the same confidence that they will. I like players who have some style and professionalism. That is my personal preference. That is called an opinion. Live with it. And try reading more carefully. Or don’t read at all. Whatever.

by jdon on Sep 6, 2010 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

pretty sure this is the key to understanding your argument
I don’t particularly like to watch him play…

John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.

by squid92 on Sep 7, 2010 2:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

It was central to my point since I said I don't like the antics-I do not

enjoy the act. But I never said he was not productive. and I still think his behavior is immature for a 27 year ole, 7 year vet.

by jdon on Sep 7, 2010 5:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

Too bad the Mets couldn't hit like this all year

they would be in 1st place, have the best record in baseball and would be going to the playoffs…………i guess hitting like this once a year for Mets fans, is all the can give us…….lol

by Jermal on Sep 5, 2010 7:51 PM EDT reply actions  

True

There’s a double standard at work, of course; Serena and Roddick is not a perfect example, given how egregious the content of Serena’s meltdown was (‘I will shove this ball down your f#$@ing throat’), but the way it was handled definitely speaks to the difference in the way things are handled when it comes to these things.

In this instance, Reyes and other Latin players throughout the years have been stereotyped as ‘hot-heads’, ‘showboats’, etc. While some of this has certainly died down over the years (to baseball’s and society’s credit), such stereotypes are deeply ingrained in cultural discourse and cannot be dislodged without decades of diligence and shifting attitudes.

That said, what I think (and hope) Keith is pointing to is the difference between showing frustration on the field and saving such tirades for when one is in the dugout. Given that meltdowns are going to be seen on TV regardless, it seems inconsequential, but in the course of a game I can certainly see where one such expression could be seen as an expression of mental weakness by the opposite side and the other as a private expression of frustration. At least, I hope that’s what it means

by ProustianDisplay on Sep 5, 2010 7:55 PM EDT reply actions  

I think it was on the play where Davis threw to 2nd to get the lead runner on a Castro fielder's choice...

Castro thought the inning was over for whatever reason although he was safe on 1st. He started trotting towards his dugout by the pitcher’s mound. Rather than just toss the ball to the pitcher after the out, Tejada scanned the infield, saw Castro’s goof, and got the ball to Ike really quickly, right before Castro got back from the middle of the infield. I’m guessing that they were saying that Tejada stayed aware of what was going on around him. As Keith would say: fundies.

by MookieTheCat on Sep 5, 2010 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kind of

It was more the fact that he held the ball on that play, and waited for Castro to get far enough off the bag before throwing.

by Mike Clemente on Sep 5, 2010 10:21 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Yeah

It was being patient enough to let Castro get far enough away from the bag that was the smart thing.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Josh Byrnes/Chip Hale as Mets 2011 GM/Manager.

by Ogre39666 on Sep 5, 2010 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't want to comment on the whole race issue

except to point out the seeming absurdity of a guy whose last name is Hernandez and whose nickname is “Mex” being called out for calling out the Hispanic kid while praising the white guy.

2009 Did Not Happen

by cjmulrain on Sep 5, 2010 8:14 PM EDT reply actions  

I doubt Keith considers himself Hispanic

He has Spanish heritage, which is in some ways a lot closer to white, than say, Dominican or Venezuelan, and I’ve never heard himself or someone else even talk about his Spanish-ness.

Not saying it isn’t off, just that it’s not absurd.

Also, know I want to know what went down in the comments section. And I still want to know what happened the other day, with Dickey, although that I’m not too sure about.

I bet Jerry Manuel just bunted.

by GilbertP on Sep 5, 2010 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

yea, I know

that’s why I qualified absurd with “seemingly” – it just seems kinda strange, although in reality it’s probably not.

2009 Did Not Happen

by cjmulrain on Sep 5, 2010 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Odd note...

Prior to integration players from Spain could play in the majors, but most players from Latin America were excluded due to racial mixing.

I don’t think Keith had any racial animus from what I have heard. He is will known for describing similar situations in different ways depending on his mood. He probably just wishes he could be as happy as Reyes nowadays.

by MookieTheCat on Sep 5, 2010 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think it's really in some way closer

I think it’s pretty clearly closer. I’m pretty sure the Spanish, as in from Spain, are known for being one of the more outwardly racist cultures in Europe.

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon

by Gina on Sep 5, 2010 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Right

but it might, on whatever level, have to do with being a black-white thing, Hispanic-ness aside.

by deadspy3 on Sep 5, 2010 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Keith doesn't have much of a filter.

I just don’t think he is always saying what he believes-I think he just talks

by jdon on Sep 6, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

Anyone watching

Pygmies vs Dodgies? Kuroda and Sanchez both looking pretty filthy so far.

by deadspy3 on Sep 5, 2010 8:21 PM EDT reply actions  

Racism and Keith Hernandez

Keith Hernandez has said many comments which carried a tone not to be mistaken with racism. Keith Hernandez is Puerto Rican and has had to deal with many stereotypes in his day and that Keith decides to once in a while use stereotypes to make a comment/joke is okay, hey its the American way in a way. What Keith is doing invoking race in his humor is a light form of bigotry and not racism. Being that Keith was in direct contact with the sports culture of America I feel his commentary is aimed at that demmograph. That is what makes Keith so effective at keeping you into the game and not by giving you stats upon stats but rather a gut reaction to what is going in the field. Not to excuse his behavior but not to make a big deal of it anyway, its baseball. I think Keith should be more involved in sportscasting for the Mets because he is very entertaining. Now if people find it offensive out there I am sure he will tone it down.

by Higher Standard on Sep 5, 2010 8:28 PM EDT reply actions  

Keith isn't Puerto Rican.

His dad is of Spanish origin and he grew up around San Fransisco.

Although I agree with most of your post, kinda, I don’t think there’s a good chance Keith will tone it down much. There’s a reason the “Keith Hernandez moment” and “I’m Keith Hernandez moment” have been coined. Actually, he has toned down his comments re: women in the past few years.

by MookieTheCat on Sep 5, 2010 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

OT

Andy Murray, jeez. 43 unforced errors. I need this Dogfish IPA….

by deadspy3 on Sep 5, 2010 8:30 PM EDT reply actions  

60. I needed to go

straight to the bottom of the ocean floor!

by deadspy3 on Sep 5, 2010 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Any answer would have been acceptable

I have yet to dip into a 120, but any of them get you where you need to be.

by HotChipWillBreakYourLegs on Sep 5, 2010 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm still waiting for the day that I see...

Dogfish IPA, St. Louis Missouri.

Beer Wars aside, it’s gonna happen.

by MookieTheCat on Sep 5, 2010 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

I love the 120 when i can get my hands on it

and they’ll definitely bury you quick

Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?

by KeithsMoustache on Sep 5, 2010 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not ashamed to say

That the 120 is overkill. It’s like the “insanity” hot wings you have to sign a waiver for, but with hops. It stays with you so you can’t enjoy any other food or drink that night. It is good if you’re only having one, though.

Image credit to astromets

by hotspur on Sep 5, 2010 11:57 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Ugh

Feeling the effects of the 60s this morning. My friend got back from his cruise at about eleven, then we ate something akin to breakfast, watched Kick Ass again and drank a lot of ale. Good times,

by deadspy3 on Sep 6, 2010 8:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

oh yeah, the 120 isn't meant to be drank in large quantities

one should last you a while.

Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?

by KeithsMoustache on Sep 6, 2010 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

seriously

With post game recaps like that about hernandez make me never want to come to this site again. Absolutely retarted

by Longislandnole on Sep 5, 2010 8:44 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Well done.

And by that I mean misspelling “retarded.”

What exactly do you find offensive about the recap and discussion?

by MookieTheCat on Sep 5, 2010 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

someone

who can’t spell retarded, and doesn’t appreciate irony.

by cntrlalt on Sep 5, 2010 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's spelled gnoll

Hangs out with goblins, carries a big club. 2d8 hit dice, iirc.

Image credit to astromets

by hotspur on Sep 5, 2010 11:59 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Dude...

Get in on my D&D Mets thing. Lots of good photos for the MSPainting at http://www.iwozhere.com/SRD/Gallery.html :P

by MookieTheCat on Sep 6, 2010 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

Someone should put

Duda and Evan’s heads on the Ettin – the bi-mulleted outfield monster.

by deadspy3 on Sep 6, 2010 8:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

Metsmerized poster?

Omar and Jerry, dumbest tandem in baseball.

by TKFJ on Sep 5, 2010 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

dur dur dur

John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.

by squid92 on Sep 5, 2010 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

and yeah, i take what you say very seriously

when the last comment you made was, and i quote:

gaytors still losong!

shakespearean stuff there, pal

John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.

by squid92 on Sep 5, 2010 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

seriously?

drink some fucking beers you gimps.

by Longislandnole on Sep 6, 2010 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

lololololwut

this is the best response ever. i DEMAND we make this a meme.

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon

by Gina on Sep 6, 2010 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

lolkay

John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.

by squid92 on Sep 6, 2010 2:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not in Obama's America.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Josh Byrnes/Chip Hale as Mets 2011 GM/Manager.

by Ogre39666 on Sep 6, 2010 2:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not, not there.

But someplace else called Long Island where you can drink a fucking beer you gimp.

by MookieTheCat on Sep 6, 2010 2:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

Canada is awesome in many ways

and a drinking age of 18 in Québec, Manitoba, and Alberta, and 19 in every other province, has gotta be high on the list – probably right after Canadian beer in general.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Josh Byrnes/Chip Hale as Mets 2011 GM/Manager.

by Ogre39666 on Sep 6, 2010 2:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hahhahahaah Ogre...

I was 18 and living within a day’s drive of Montreal long ago. Didn’t hurt that I had family friends there who I could crash with either. Toronto was one of my old raver stomps. Much better after 18 and much worse in February than anyplace on earth, but yeah.

by MookieTheCat on Sep 6, 2010 2:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

"Retarted", huh?

So you not only received ONE tart, but you also received a SECOND. Oh man, I guess that means you’re retarted.

Consequences will never be the same.

by NetsMets4Life on Sep 5, 2010 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think Keith was being racist. I heard what he said today (amazing, yes ,I watched some of it

I think that’s just his brand of humor.

"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"

by feslenraster on Sep 5, 2010 8:56 PM EDT reply actions  

Also he may have been drinking

Image credit to astromets

by hotspur on Sep 6, 2010 12:00 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

It was a long day too.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Josh Byrnes/Chip Hale as Mets 2011 GM/Manager.

by Ogre39666 on Sep 6, 2010 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

You know what...I've been thinking about the Keith thing...

Here’s an alternative hypothesis. For whatever he is, it’s clear that Keith is a traditionalist. From his comments on women in the dugout to his approach to the game, I think Keith views himself as an “old time” player where you worked hard, didn’t get paid much, knew and respected the unwiritten rules, drank scotch, smoked stogies, had groupies, and wore tight uniforms. Rather than the distinction between Reyes and O’Neill being the product of a racial distinction (which I don’t think it is), I think if it is indicative of anything it is indicative of the idea that O’Neill had paid his dues at that point, whereas Reyes is still rather young (and seems younger than he is). If you see Keith’s comments about himself being a hothead, he he takes himself to task for his actions when he was young. What he doesn’t mention was that he had his moments later in his career; I remember him swatting a batting helmet or two, among other things. But by then he had paid his dues so he was allowed the indiscretion.

by MookieTheCat on Sep 5, 2010 9:01 PM EDT reply actions  

Good point

but perhaps that is worth calling him out on too?

by deadspy3 on Sep 5, 2010 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ah...

I’m a traditionalist vis a vis the game (well, at least in certain respects). Thus my spirited defense both of plunking batters as a normative mechanism and charging the mound for the same purpose. This also explains my opposition to replay cameras. I also believe in paying your dues, both within the baseball world and without. Each of these things can be argued about, but I don’t think you should call him out on it. It’s one view of the game.

by MookieTheCat on Sep 5, 2010 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fair enough

I’m split on these things. I am pro-plunking/mound charging, but anti-rookies-having-to-prove-themselves-against-crappy-declining-vets.

by deadspy3 on Sep 5, 2010 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Looking for something else to call Keith out

strikes me as a witch hunt, particularly after raising the specter of racism. In the U.S., racism is very touchy territory. False accusations should not be raised, not just because it can unfairly tarnish reputations, but more importantly because it diminishes the strength of valid grievances.

by Russ on Sep 5, 2010 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well

racism is no better or worse than several other forms of bigotry. But it’s certainly more serious than saying “get off my lawn”. However, while I don’t think Keith is necessarily being overtly racist, I think it does come a lot easier to people to criticise black players for things that they would praise in white players. This is purely anecdotal and a fairly small sample size (I’ve only spent maybe 6 months total in the US), but equally I don’t have the baggage.

Having a go at him for being an old-school blowhard is separate from criticising racism, not a substitute.

by deadspy3 on Sep 5, 2010 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

And btw

I really love Keith as a commentator, I just think if you’re in the booth to give salty opinions you have to be ready to put your hands up when you cross the line.

by deadspy3 on Sep 5, 2010 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lemme make myself clear...

I wasn’t trying to call him out for being a traditionalist. I was trying to explain his approach to young guys v. old guys. “Old school” =/= “old school blowhard” in my book. If oh, let’s say, Nick Evans or Ike Davis started throwing things, I think he might get the Reyes treatment because he hasn’t paid his dues.

by MookieTheCat on Sep 5, 2010 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh no,

I wasn’t putting words into your mouth. That was my view, and mine alone. I find Keith insufferably old-fashioned in a very hackneyed way sometimes, but I still like him. He needs Gary and Ronnie to keep him in place.

by deadspy3 on Sep 5, 2010 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ah hah....

Yeah, re-reading the posts above this is relatively clear. There’s a reason Seinfeld chose Keith. Even when he was young he was a cocky, arrogant ass part of the time. He has toned it down a LOT over the years.

by MookieTheCat on Sep 5, 2010 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good ideas, for real

Maybe in 10 years we can test the hypothesis — have Jose do something “babyish” and see what Keith thinks. That is, if Keith is still announcing (I bet he isn’t by then).

by James Kannengieser on Sep 5, 2010 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Reyes has been in the majors 7 years!

How long does it take to pay your dues?

Image credit to astromets

by hotspur on Sep 6, 2010 12:04 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

every year with dreads doesn't count

fact

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon

by Gina on Sep 6, 2010 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

I dunno...

He still looks like he’s 15 sometimes. But yeah, I get your point.

by MookieTheCat on Sep 6, 2010 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Holy cow

Super slo-mo is not kind to Mr. Sandoval.

by deadspy3 on Sep 5, 2010 9:13 PM EDT reply actions  

Is not the subject of this board?

Will repeat the failures of the past few years?
Is located in Florida?
Has a mildly offensive mascot?
Needs to work on its English department?
Has very pretty girls?

I’m just not getting your point here.

by MookieTheCat on Sep 6, 2010 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

ogggie

just suck a dick when FSU wins the natl champ in 3 years. not the forum for this

by Longislandnole on Sep 6, 2010 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

I will gladly suck a dick....

If FSU is the national champ. Looks like I better get some mouthwash in oh, say, 2075.

by MookieTheCat on Sep 6, 2010 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

I love the "not the forum for this" part

right after telling someone to “suck a dick”.

It’s so wonderfully contradictory.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Josh Byrnes/Chip Hale as Mets 2011 GM/Manager.

by Ogre39666 on Sep 6, 2010 1:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

Jerry:

“I believe this dick is in the shoulder area. I’m not to familiar with anatomy.”

by deadspy3 on Sep 6, 2010 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I went to FSU

and I’m embarrassed by your trolling on this board.

by Russ on Sep 6, 2010 1:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

One of the guys on my hockey team went to FSU

he transfered to Hofstra…

Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Josh Byrnes/Chip Hale as Mets 2011 GM/Manager.

by Ogre39666 on Sep 6, 2010 1:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

Don't worry...

We don’t hold it against FSU or FSU grads. But yeah, that guy.

by MookieTheCat on Sep 6, 2010 1:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

yeah ok buddy

give it 3 years TOPS
fucking it will happen. get on a college website and learn what you are talking about

by Longislandnole on Sep 6, 2010 12:44 AM EDT reply actions  

Oh btw...Props to Megdal...

If I could rec tonight’s poem I would. He used both fertile and fecund. Great use of synonyms in poetic volley. Well done.

by MookieTheCat on Sep 6, 2010 2:29 AM EDT reply actions  

Oh man

I missed some diamond-encrusted trolling last night! I’m just going to shout FSU at people in the street now, then apologise and tell them that the street really isn’t the forum for that, then tell them to suck a dick in three years’ time.

by deadspy3 on Sep 6, 2010 8:48 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Yeah it was fun...

I held him off for a little bit, then Gina showed up and lowered the boom.

by MookieTheCat on Sep 6, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's weird

it seems often when there’s a troll herel, I’m the target of the attack that eventually becomes a meme. The priceless “gimp” comment here, and prior to that when I was called a “tim kurkjen wannabe”

John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.

by squid92 on Sep 6, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Your "Shakespearian Stuff" line was great.

Perhaps you’re memeworthy in response because your comments arouse a certain level of embarrasing ire.

by MookieTheCat on Sep 6, 2010 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

In fairness to Keith

I do think that if Reyes had smashed a water cooler instead of throwing his glove, Keith would not have gone on that tirade. Now, if you asked Keith which was a more egregious sin, I’m not sure he’d have an answer (in fact if I had to bet on whether he’d have an answer or his head would explode, I’d go with head explode), but just psychologically speaking I’d speculate the biggest difference is that one act happens on the field and the other in the dugout. That seems to be a sticking point for Keith, in fact I think there was another discussion he was having about bad behavior and in a different circumstance lately when he specifically made this point, that once you get in the dugout its “okay” to engage in more emotional behavior, but on the field you should be a “professional” at all times.

"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet

What a fool I was to defy him"

-HST

by Mark Himmelstein on Sep 6, 2010 12:57 PM EDT reply actions  

Was it the Beltran/Wright bat smashing you're thinking of?

Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Josh Byrnes/Chip Hale as Mets 2011 GM/Manager.

by Ogre39666 on Sep 6, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah I think that's what it was

"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet

What a fool I was to defy him"

-HST

by Mark Himmelstein on Sep 7, 2010 2:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

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