Wilpons Looking To Sell 20-25% Of Mets
by Eric Simon on Jan 28, 2011 2:32 PM EST
Email
PrintOn a conference call that's being broadcast on SNY as we speak, Fred Wilpon has indicated that the Mets will look to sell a 20-25% minority stake in the team. Last April, Forbes valued the Mets at $858 million, which means the Mets are probably looking at an influx of $200 million or so from potential "strategic partners." Earlier I guessed that they'd need on the order of $100 million.
When asked to explain the Mets' current financial situation in the face of the Wilpons' persistent dismissal of claims that a link might exist between their involvement with Bernie Madoff and possible financial insolvency with the Mets, Jeff Wilpon replied, "Things have changed from October to now, with the lawsuit."
309 comments
|
2 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
My question is this.
How many partners will they have? And what input/control over the team will these partners have? I hope they arent just silent partners.
by SFloridaMetsFan on Jan 28, 2011 2:42 PM EST reply actions
You should be careful what you wish for
Dueling owners can be a right clusterfuck.
The Steinbrenners only own 32.9% of the Yankees.
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
"Who has more fun than people?"
- Ralph Kiner
I would guess that the Wilpons would still call the shots,
and be the face of ownership.
I am willing to wait to build a world class franchise (h/t to millsy)
by BobbyV_Incognito on Jan 28, 2011 5:56 PM EST up reply actions
Depends on what the investor wanted as conditions of investing.
2010 Mets: 81-81 Pythagorean record. 656 Runs Scored, 652 Runs Allowed.
Damn You, Manuelllllllllllllllllllllll!!!
Wilpons are keeping controlling interest
so it doesn’t matter unless they have to sell off a lot more later.
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 28, 2011 11:45 PM EST up reply actions
Yep
Wilpons are looking to sell the World’s Most Expensive Season Ticket™ … Evah!
But what if no one wants to be a minority partner and Uncle Sam wants his billion dollars?
the coupon family may well be forced to sell the entire team.
Bye bye Jeffy bye bye! Singing bye bye Jeffy bye bye!
by ScottfromPeekskill on Jan 29, 2011 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
true, but the Mets franchise is worth so much
even a minority shareholder at 20-25% is likely going to make a killing, so i can’t imagine nobody will be buying.
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 29, 2011 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
Frabchise is worth in the neighborhood of $800m according to Forbes
Since the new owner will have a tremendous amount of leverage it makes sense that he would ask for more than 25% for an investment of $200m. It would not be shocking to see the team sell for $600m therefore $200m might fetch 33% of the team.
However, the team is going to need operating money from all partners moving forward especially if revenue continues to fall. $200m up front and how much more in the coming months?
The Wilpons might take $700m and be gone.
by ScottfromPeekskill on Jan 30, 2011 1:47 AM EST up reply actions
This is the beginning of the end for the Wilpon dynasty
Who in their right mind would want in on a franchise which is being sued over the Madoff scandal? This is complicated shit and the new part-owner may incur some problems as a result based on what I’ve read/heard. This is way beyond my bailiwick … it’ll be interesting to see it play out.
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
"Who has more fun than people?"
- Ralph Kiner
by The Glider on Jan 29, 2011 2:57 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
(continued)
I understand that there are ramifications to the new owner who may have to share in the liability over the Madoff scandal.
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
"Who has more fun than people?"
- Ralph Kiner
Nah
There are ways to shield a new owner, especially a minority owner, from past liability. Not the least of this is having the government agree to not pursue remedies against the new owner in a settlement agreement. I still don’t know enough to make a call about what the possible liability is, but I’m sure they could find a taker for all or a portion of a professional sports franchise in NY. There are still billionaires among us and a NY baseball team is a perfect glamour purchase.
For what it’s worth I hope Jerry Seinfeld buys a part of the team.
It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.
by MookieTheCat on Jan 29, 2011 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
I heard a completely unsubstantiated rumor that he might buy in.
I am willing to wait to build a world class franchise (h/t to millsy)
by BobbyV_Incognito on Jan 29, 2011 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
I'd support his purchase
Everything he touches turns to gold. “That’s gold Jerry! Pure gold!”
(maybe perhaps w/the exception of “Bee Movie”. 51% by Rotten Tomatoes).
"Give me liberty or give me Mets!"
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Jan 29, 2011 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
And The Marriage Ref.
I am willing to wait to build a world class franchise (h/t to millsy)
by BobbyV_Incognito on Jan 29, 2011 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
the franchise isnt getting sued
just the wilpons. big difference.
HELLO HELLO MR WILPON... BUY THAT MANSION. WE DONT NEED A CONDO.
Once they go down the co-mingling of funds path,everything they own
is up for grabs.
by Putnan Prince on Jan 29, 2011 7:22 PM EST up reply actions
meaning what?
the wilpon’s co-mingled the mets accounting with the their madoff investments and now the mets are going to be seized due to a ruling in a civil court? i highly doubt that is going to happen. If for not other reason than Selig and MLB would never let a team mess with their books like that.
HELLO HELLO MR WILPON... BUY THAT MANSION. WE DONT NEED A CONDO.
One other reason not to co-mingle investments.
If an MLB team’s finances are mixed in with another entity’s, that raises the possibility that the team’s books could get opened up.
I am willing to wait to build a world class franchise (h/t to millsy)
by BobbyV_Incognito on Jan 29, 2011 9:27 PM EST up reply actions
Uncle Sam running the Mets?
Does that mean President Obama is CEO, GM and manager?
How well does he turn the double play? Could he man 2b?
by ScottfromPeekskill on Jan 30, 2011 1:49 AM EST up reply actions
Just the threat of co-mingling litigation is sometimes enough to cause a
settlement.The game is on !
by Putnan Prince on Feb 21, 2011 8:15 PM EST up reply actions
Another question
What will this mean for the Mets? Does a portion, or all of it, get reinvested into the team and Citi, or is this just the Wilpons trying to line their pockets?
by SFloridaMetsFan on Jan 28, 2011 2:44 PM EST reply actions
There cant be 200 million in debt can there?
From reports Ive seen here and other places, the Wilpons made like 50 mil from the Madoff thing.
by SFloridaMetsFan on Jan 28, 2011 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
It appears this is needed to cover the
settlement amount. I wonder who the outside counsel is for the Mets.
by Coolpapabell on Jan 28, 2011 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
also even if they made 50 million
it’s possible they were expecting way more profit and now are struggling to pay for other things without that expected profit.
I feel bad for my little brother. He walked in and saw that the score of the Nugs-Magic game was 88-89 and thought it was high scoring.
All he knows is the Nets.
by Maxyboy on Dec 14 2010
Rex Ryan lobby for championship toe ring.
right, the madoff investment is probably not a direct link to needing $200
but it did directly cause them to need $200 for all sorts of other stuff. they probably have way more than $200 in outstanding debt and they can cover some of the payments but they need $200 to cover up a shortfall from the cash they planned to have (which is now less because their madoff “investment” is kaput) and the collateral they need because their other assets have lost value.
HELLO HELLO MR WILPON... BUY THAT MANSION. WE DONT NEED A CONDO.
Hey Ken
I’d be interested in finding out why they divested themselves of the Madoff investment with such fortuitous timing?
"Give me liberty or give me Mets!"
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Jan 28, 2011 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
The commercial real estate market was stressed before the Madoff scandal broke
Its probably that simple.
"The Mets are gonna be amazin'!" - Casey Stengel
"Bounding and astounding!" - Clyde Frazier
That and the 30% drop off in revenue since Citi opened.
If we truly want rid of the Wilpons then this is our chance.
Dont go to ballgames.
Don’t buy merchandise.
Let revenues continue to fall.
And boo yah! The Wilpons will be forced to do something.
by ScottfromPeekskill on Jan 29, 2011 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
And so...
The Revolution began w/a blog! The blog heard round the world! ;)
"Give me liberty or give me Mets!"
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Jan 29, 2011 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
if they did
they they are going to look mighty guilty in this lawsuit.
HELLO HELLO MR WILPON... BUY THAT MANSION. WE DONT NEED A CONDO.
I bet if we all put a couple bucks in, we could get some portion of that!
I’ll pledge $100 if everyone else does.
See Data Differently: Beyond the Box Score | @justinbopp
by Justin Bopp on Jan 28, 2011 2:47 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
We'll hold a Mets-a-thon!!!
- Get Jerry (Seinfeld, not Lewis) to do a holiday telethon.
- Have the studio plastered with sad eyed pictures of Skillsets Jr.
- Have Beltran come out on cructhes all sad that the Mets can’t afford the operation.
- End it with something inspirational, like “Only you can build a forrest fire”
If this is going to work, Jerry needs to wear The Shirt
"The Mets are gonna be amazin'!" - Casey Stengel
"Bounding and astounding!" - Clyde Frazier
how about Michael Richards?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ug9WItpr4k
"It’s just everytime we think the bar can’t get lower, they lower it. Now next year we’ll just be happy to hear that rogue shirtless officials aren’t implementing useless detrimental drills in spring training for no apparent reason."
-Gina, 3/1/10
by Greenpoint Ian on Jan 28, 2011 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
damn!
MookieTheCat beat me to it. I should have scrolled down further.
"It’s just everytime we think the bar can’t get lower, they lower it. Now next year we’ll just be happy to hear that rogue shirtless officials aren’t implementing useless detrimental drills in spring training for no apparent reason."
-Gina, 3/1/10
by Greenpoint Ian on Jan 28, 2011 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
but he probably won't need the surgery
R.A. Dickey "I do have thoughts on that. I don’t want to make them public."
THE WALTER REED 3 - Terrible Teammates, Worse Human Beings.
put me down for $150
"Anybody with ability can play in the big leagues. But to be able to trick people year in and year out the way I did, I think that was a much greater feat." -Bob Uecker
"Who is the girl in the dugout, with the long hair? What's going on here? You have got to be kidding me. Only player personnel in the dugout. I won't say that women belong in the kitchen, but they don't belong in the dugout." -Kieth Hernandez
I've got $67 in dirty loose change hanging around.
I’M IN!
"Give me liberty or give me Mets!"
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Jan 28, 2011 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
if it means i own part of the Mets
I’ll throw in 100 too. Totally worth it
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 28, 2011 11:46 PM EST up reply actions
Money Ball
It’s a good thing Alderson is here because I don’t think to many big free agents are going to be signing for a while
i normally don't pay attention to twitter, but this is from Bob Klapisch
“Was told Mets’ revenues are down 30-35 percent since move to Citi Field. Bud Selig was concerned enough to send Alderson to Flushing”
which tells me that MLB has known for a while, and foisted Alderson and the Moneyball crew onto the Wilpons. while we were all cheering for such an out of character and bold move, it was engineered to make the team more attractive to minority investors. the Wilpons can move ahead with those investment plans now that the roster is mostly done.
if Bud Selig is the one who is ultimately responsible for fixing the Mets, we’re going to have to give him credit for something. i dunno if i’m prepared to do that.
"they're still shitty"
by Help!I'maRock! on Jan 28, 2011 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
If they can't afford the team, they need to sell.
I don’t even know what the advantages would be to putting $200M of your dollars into a 20% stake when you have the Wilpons at the helm.
by Coolpapabell on Jan 28, 2011 3:02 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
It would be a poor investment unless all sorts of provisos and addendums and conditions are written in.
On the other hand baseball teams DO tend to be idiot proof when it comes to turning a longterm profit. The investor could also have things written into the agreement such that he gets to take his profit out of a particular part of the business, or such that he can cash out in, say, five years, for something in the neighborhood of what he invested. There are all kinds of things that a savvy investor can write into an agreement in order to protect himself from the current clucks in ownership.
2010 Mets: 81-81 Pythagorean record. 656 Runs Scored, 652 Runs Allowed.
Damn You, Manuelllllllllllllllllllllll!!!
Also
Selig saving the Mets its too neat and simple of a narative for me to believe…..
by Coolpapabell on Jan 28, 2011 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
as i said
i dunno if i’m prepared to do that. i’m sure more information will become available throughout the weekend.
"they're still shitty"
by Help!I'maRock! on Jan 28, 2011 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
Look at Bettman
He’s not very good with marketing or image control, but one thing he does extremely well is protect the league franchises. Is it possible that Selig is similar? I don’t now, but it’s not out of the question.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Not sure either
I’ve been used to just making fun of him all this time. This is going to feel weird.
Proud supporter of a New York baseball team and a Boston football team. Yeah, deal with it!
"We don’t listen to the hype. I don’t think we ever have. We really take after our coach and he says ‘When you win, say little. When you lose, say less.'"--Tom Brady
The 2011 New York Mets: At least we don't have Omar and Jerry anymore
Well well
“Sterling equities is seperate operationally from the Mets and we will be just fine”………
I'm having a hard time trying to figure out if this is good news or not.
Oh, the butcher and the baker and the people on the street: wheredotheygo?!?!? Right here: http://myentireteam.wordpress.com/
Use this
http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~ssanty/cgi-bin/eightball.cgi
It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.
by MookieTheCat on Jan 28, 2011 3:15 PM EST up reply actions
Excellent!
"The Mets are gonna be amazin'!" - Casey Stengel
"Bounding and astounding!" - Clyde Frazier
by Russ on Jan 28, 2011 3:19 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think I have an idea better than the bake sale idea
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ug9WItpr4k
It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.
Why is
Jeff Francouer talking to Al Yankovic?
Thank you Matt Moulson!
by CharlieIsles on Jan 28, 2011 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
That's Kramer
GREAT movie!
Spatula city!
"But also, there are lockers… and it’s a room… so, I call it a locker room."
-Matthew Cutandpasteone
by Dandy Salderson on Jan 28, 2011 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
For the uninitiated
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XbCWmY0eqY
"But also, there are lockers… and it’s a room… so, I call it a locker room."
-Matthew Cutandpasteone
by Dandy Salderson on Jan 28, 2011 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
classic
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 28, 2011 11:48 PM EST up reply actions
Life is like a mop.
Sometimes life gets full of dirt and crud and bugs and hairballs and stuff. Well, you, you gotta clean it out! You gotta put it in here and rinse it off and start all over again. And sometimes life sticks to the floor so bad that a mop is not good enough, a mop isn’t good enough. You gotta get down there with a, with a toothbrush ya know! You gotta scrub, you gotta get it all off, you gotta really try to get it all off. And if that doesn’t work, you can’t give up! You gotta stand right up, run to the window and say: "Hey! The floors are dirty as hell, and I’m not gonna take this anymore!!
"they're still shitty"
by Help!I'maRock! on Jan 28, 2011 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
i'm thinking of something blue
i’m thinking of something BLUUUUU-UEEEEE
HELLO HELLO MR WILPON... BUY THAT MANSION. WE DONT NEED A CONDO.
Wheel! Of! Fish!
"But also, there are lockers… and it’s a room… so, I call it a locker room."
-Matthew Cutandpasteone
by Dandy Salderson on Jan 28, 2011 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
NOTHING!! ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!!
STUPID!!! YOU’RE SO STUPID!!!!!
"they're still shitty"
by Help!I'maRock! on Jan 28, 2011 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
Here's where I reiterate my bank robbery idea.
Just sayin’.
I am willing to wait to build a world class franchise (h/t to millsy)
by BobbyV_Incognito on Jan 28, 2011 5:58 PM EST up reply actions
Can I be your wheel man?
"Give me liberty or give me Mets!"
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Jan 28, 2011 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
Well, it sure can't be me.
I am willing to wait to build a world class franchise (h/t to millsy)
by BobbyV_Incognito on Jan 28, 2011 6:22 PM EST up reply actions
You know what we should do
What's that about?
by Brian. on Jan 28, 2011 3:19 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
I will do the German Dance for you!
Proud supporter of a New York baseball team and a Boston football team. Yeah, deal with it!
"We don’t listen to the hype. I don’t think we ever have. We really take after our coach and he says ‘When you win, say little. When you lose, say less.'"--Tom Brady
The 2011 New York Mets: At least we don't have Omar and Jerry anymore
$200m for 20%-25% of the mets seems like a good investment to me
based on the virtually no data i have to work with. but objectively, management looks solid, the intrinsic asset value seems safe and does nothing but rise, you exclusively share the nations biggest and richest market, yet prices are depressed because of the overall economy so demand will be down. sounds like a great time to buy if you ask me.
so what i’m asking is if anyone has a couple hondo (of the million variety) they want to lend me?
HELLO HELLO MR WILPON... BUY THAT MANSION. WE DONT NEED A CONDO.
by kendynamo on Jan 28, 2011 3:23 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
At a time when liquidity is worth its weight in gold
Good luck with that one Fred.
by Coolpapabell on Jan 28, 2011 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
This
Cash is sparse. Not many investors with 200m laying around, and which anyone would allocate to allow JEFF to keep his toy,
"But also, there are lockers… and it’s a room… so, I call it a locker room."
-Matthew Cutandpasteone
by Dandy Salderson on Jan 28, 2011 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
Thing is ...
If you have 200M laying around, odds are you can get your hands on another 600M and just buy the team outright.
really?
there’s kind of a big different between the two numbers. like 800 is four times the size of 200. unless you just invented google that kind of growth takes a while.
plus theres the fact that the wilpons dont want to sell anymore than a quarter of the team that might throw a wrench into those plans.
HELLO HELLO MR WILPON... BUY THAT MANSION. WE DONT NEED A CONDO.
He means that if you have 200m in cash
You are probably in a situation where you can get 600m in financing or from partners.
"But also, there are lockers… and it’s a room… so, I call it a locker room."
-Matthew Cutandpasteone
by Dandy Salderson on Jan 28, 2011 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
i mean i guess
theres no point in debating a hypothetical but it i still think youre making some mighty large assumptions to say that just cause you can spend $200, in cash, wampum or pork bellies, that you’ll also necessarily have no problem raising another $600 to spend.
HELLO HELLO MR WILPON... BUY THAT MANSION. WE DONT NEED A CONDO.
Depends on who is holding the debt ...
Recently you Hicks and Gillett lose Liverpool FC to New England Sports Ventures (the guys that own the Red Sox) for a fraction of what the team was worth because they over-levearged themselves in trying to keep up with the payments.
Ultimately the team is worth whatever the last guy holding the deed says its worth. If the Wilpons are bleeding money and the banks that own the notes start getting antsy, the price will take a nosedive.
for sure
but there will be some floor value that the franchise will reach where someone will be willing to pay. at least these days. cbs sold the yankees to the steinbrenner for a song, but that was back in the 70’s when MLB’s entire financial footing was drastically shakier. no matter how desperate the wilpon’s get i can’t imagine the mets selling for less than $500m.
HELLO HELLO MR WILPON... BUY THAT MANSION. WE DONT NEED A CONDO.
As an FYI
Liverpool FC was estimated to be worth 750 Million pounds. NESV bought it for around 250 Million in cash.
Leverage can be a b*tch …
Wow!
If they hold it for several years, while maintaining or improving the franchise, they should be able`to flip it for £750 million easy.
"The Mets are gonna be amazin'!" - Casey Stengel
"Bounding and astounding!" - Clyde Frazier
then way they pay off all the debt they incurred
they’ll still probably have a tidy profit, but nothing close to the 750-250=$500m or pounds or whatever that you might think theyre getting.
HELLO HELLO MR WILPON... BUY THAT MANSION. WE DONT NEED A CONDO.
that just means that all the debt the assumed wasn't included in the purchase price
theres no way it was ever “valued” at $250. that’s just the amount leftover after all the debt was bought. so the people buying it still had to fork over way more than just the $250m.
to give you another example, when i worked in real estate, my company purchased the Hancock building in Boston for “$20m”. You can google it and thats what the headlines read. However, that was AFTER my company and a hedge fund partner bought up huge amounts of debt the original owner wracked up. so the actual value of the the building never dipped blow $600-$700m, which is more in line with what my company spent when it was all said in done. Still, it was great deal less than the $1.2B the previous owners paid, but that still shows the difference between what an asset’s purchase “price” is and what the new owners actually paid for it.
HELLO HELLO MR WILPON... BUY THAT MANSION. WE DONT NEED A CONDO.
Just Googled it ...
New England Sports Ventures (NESV) today announces that it has completed the purchase of Liverpool Football Club. NESV wishes to extend its sincere gratitude to the Board of Liverpool FC for their diligence and their efforts on behalf of the Club and its supporters.
The transaction values the Club at £300m and eliminates all of the acquisition debt placed on LFC by its previous owners, reducing the Club’s debt servicing obligations from £25m-£30m a year to £2m-£3m.
Was 300M, not 250M as I stated.
gotcha - you're right
they were purchased a a fraction of their potential value. but the devil is still in the details. it probably sounds like i’m backtracking now, but there are couple things clouding my perhaps too authoritative of a response i made before getting more of the facts. 1) i was taking those estimates to from forbes and what not to be more rigorous in their valuation 2) the asset, liverpool, was more than just overlevered, it was in distress, and that brings lawyers and far more obfuscation to an assets value than normal.
the main point i was trying to make is as long as the underlying asset has changed, all the debt and baggage you saddle it with shouldn’t change it’s true value. and that as desperate as someone might be to sell, there is still enough demand right now, even in a depressed economy, to keep a major sports franchise from going for peanuts.
of course maybe there’s an example out there i’m unaware of where this happened again, so maybe it’s better not to listen to me since im basically just making an ass out of myself at this point.
HELLO HELLO MR WILPON... BUY THAT MANSION. WE DONT NEED A CONDO.
Happens all the time ...
Its a foreclosure. If you can’t service the loan, the bank takes your house.
foreclosure theoretically doesn't change the value of a home
meaning just the foreclosure itself. in a totally different time and economy, if i sign a super crappy mortgage and end up giving my house back to the bank, as long as i maintained the house i lived in and the overall market doesn’t change then the house such be able to sell for the same price.
or if you own a taco bell that does steady business and generates $10,000/month in income, the fact that i take huge bank loans out on it to make payments on my beach front property that’s now underwater and end up missing payments on that bank loan on the taco bell and have to sell it doesn’t mean it worth less than a $10,000/m cash flow.
we may be arguing past each other, especially since trophy assets like pro sports teams wildly fluctuate in value aren’t tied to income like most things.
HELLO HELLO MR WILPON... BUY THAT MANSION. WE DONT NEED A CONDO.
Value is relative
The value of anything is whatever someone is willing to pay to have it.
good point
luckily we aren;t on the barter system anymore
HELLO HELLO MR WILPON... BUY THAT MANSION. WE DONT NEED A CONDO.
My guess is that it will cost $1-1.2 billion
This is because whoever buys the Mets will also want all of Mets Ownership’s stake in SNY, as well as the minor league affiliates that they own (Everything but Buffalo and Savannah)
"The Mets are gonna be amazin'!" - Casey Stengel
"Bounding and astounding!" - Clyde Frazier
just bring a chart
and add drawings of big breasted women. its a surefire way to success.
HELLO HELLO MR WILPON... BUY THAT MANSION. WE DONT NEED A CONDO.
Just remember to avoid the wildcard
"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage
by blueandorange4life on Jan 28, 2011 4:13 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Ken.
Ref. your comment: ‘prices are depressed’. Prices of what? (just curious). The Yanks are in the same market, yet demand is high (because of the product on the field).
"Give me liberty or give me Mets!"
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Jan 28, 2011 5:21 PM EST up reply actions
Disregard.
Read some of the after-comments. I follow.
"Give me liberty or give me Mets!"
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Jan 28, 2011 5:29 PM EST up reply actions
Two words
Mikhail.
Prokhorov.
"You can spend minutes, hours, days weeks or even months overanalyzing a situation; trying to put the pieces together, justifying what would’ve, could’ve happened – or you can just leave the pieces on the floor and move the **** on."
-Tupac Amaru Shakur
Send him an e-mail
oh wait…..carrier pigeon might be better
by Coolpapabell on Jan 28, 2011 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
James L. Dolan
SCORE FOR R.A DICKEY
R.A Dickey=2011 N.L CY YOUNG AWARD WINNER
by The American Mr.Hockey on Jan 28, 2011 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
Dude
Seriously why are you here? Your opinion is anything but valued around any SBN blog much less AA where you are universally disliked.
by MetsKnicksRutgers on Jan 28, 2011 3:36 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
What kind of person has a Phillies avatar
and a Mets sig?
Universal trolling at its best.
"You can spend minutes, hours, days weeks or even months overanalyzing a situation; trying to put the pieces together, justifying what would’ve, could’ve happened – or you can just leave the pieces on the floor and move the **** on."
-Tupac Amaru Shakur
by NetsMets4Life on Jan 28, 2011 3:53 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
A Yankee fan
I feel bad for my little brother. He walked in and saw that the score of the Nugs-Magic game was 88-89 and thought it was high scoring.
All he knows is the Nets.
by Maxyboy on Dec 14 2010
Rex Ryan lobby for championship toe ring.
by Gina on Jan 28, 2011 4:32 PM EST up reply actions 9 recs
All these green comments in a row look nice
Squeezed to Song and Bendtner and Song and Nasri oh lovely lovely lovely!
-Peter Drury, the one time his commentating has ever been acceptable.
by Aidan Gibson on Jan 29, 2011 5:55 AM EST up reply actions 5 recs
agreed...I can actually read this blog better with all the green recs!
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
by feslenraster on Jan 29, 2011 5:01 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
We need one more to keep the green run
What's the score, boys?
What did Bugs Bunny do?
What's with the Carrot League baseball today?
by StorkFan on Jan 29, 2011 10:34 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Let's see if we can keep this streak going.
I am willing to wait to build a world class franchise (h/t to millsy)
by BobbyV_Incognito on Jan 30, 2011 12:24 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
If BobbyV is stealin
then I’m rec’n!
"Give me liberty or give me Mets!"
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Jan 30, 2011 7:22 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
For you
A history of your posting.
http://gocryemokid.memebase.com/2011/01/24/emo-scene-hipster-the-memes-are-emo/
It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.
by MookieTheCat on Jan 28, 2011 4:34 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Ok
it’s clear you support literally whatever team you saw last at sportcenter™. You’re like a goldfish except less entertaining, and you eat more.
There. Now it’s the last thing you’ve seen. Welcome back to Mets fandom until you forget you read this in 20 seconds.
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 28, 2011 11:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Do we really want him back?
I am willing to wait to build a world class franchise (h/t to millsy)
by BobbyV_Incognito on Jan 29, 2011 12:13 AM EST up reply actions
no
but don’t worry, soon he’ll forget he was ever here anyway.
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 29, 2011 12:18 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Are you serious?
You changed teams in 2009; tried to say you were still a Mets fan, and now have a Phillies avatar.
If you were a real fan you wouldn’t have made those switches
Squeezed to Song and Bendtner and Song and Nasri oh lovely lovely lovely!
-Peter Drury, the one time his commentating has ever been acceptable.
by Aidan Gibson on Jan 29, 2011 5:57 AM EST up reply actions
What has he done
to show that would be a good idea. He knows even less about baseball than he does basketball.
Money
"You can spend minutes, hours, days weeks or even months overanalyzing a situation; trying to put the pieces together, justifying what would’ve, could’ve happened – or you can just leave the pieces on the floor and move the **** on."
-Tupac Amaru Shakur
by NetsMets4Life on Jan 28, 2011 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
Just don't mention:
“Mello!”
"Give me liberty or give me Mets!"
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Jan 28, 2011 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
I KNEW IT! I seem to recall some people calling me names a year ago
just because I stated that I believed that the Wilpons have suffered worse financially than we realized as a result of Madoff.
I was dismissed, of course, but lo and behold : The Truth Comes Out!
Feels nice to be vindicated. :p
But that said, it still doesn’t erase the fact that the Mets(or rather the Wilpons) are in a bad situation right now. Selling 20-25% of the team looks to me like they’re looking for someone to help foot the bill for the victims of Madoff’s PONZI scheme.
Been a while man
Then again I’ve been focusing om the knicks a lot so maybe you’ve been around
by MetsKnicksRutgers on Jan 28, 2011 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
Been busy watching My NY Jets BREAK MY HEART IN TWO.....again. lol.
Nice to have a REAL Head Coach and a True Franchise QB, though. :)
Mark Cuban to the rescue!
Freedom is a road seldom traveled by the multitudes...
by Major on Jan 28, 2011 3:46 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
LOL I don't want him but who else has 200 mil laying around and is desperate to be in MLB?
Freedom is a road seldom traveled by the multitudes...
Better question is... what person would be stupid enough to invest $200 m into something they have no control over?
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2011 Mets- Rock bottom: We haven't reached it yet
by Syler on Jan 28, 2011 3:58 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Well because they are going to make that 200m back and then some.
but then again the prospective minority owner will not have any ownership of SNY or CitiField so maybe this isn’t the slam dunk it seems to be. I mean really a billionaire investing 200m in the Mets would make them salivate.
Freedom is a road seldom traveled by the multitudes...
Only 2 scenarios in this long recession make sense.
The Wilpons are telling you that they’re going to sell the team in the near future where you can hope to make a profit.
OR
The team is a lot more profitable on a Year to Year basis than they’re letting on, and 20-25% of that cut is really enticing.
It's not just any investment, though
There are what, < 30 sports teams that come available for sale in a person’s lifetime? Add the cachet of owning a sports team, and the fact that becoming a limited partner may carry the valuable first right of refusal on the whole thing – that’s a very, very attractive thing in these United States. If you’re a baseball fan, it’s near invaluable.
During good economic times I think you'd be right.
I don’t think there are a bunch of a hundred millionaires out there right now looking for risky or no profit investments.
if the deal yield a positive net present value
then you pull the trigger. but thats assuming all the risk is accounted for, which would theoretically increase the less control over the deal that you have.
basically, the less control and perks the new partners are getting the lower the cost of the equity is going to be. and you can bet the lawyers are going to hash out ever detail and put a price tag on everthing.
HELLO HELLO MR WILPON... BUY THAT MANSION. WE DONT NEED A CONDO.
Bart Hubbuch of the Post just said this:
“One of my sources from #Mets beat told me gov’t seeking $1B(!) clawback from Wilpon/Katz. No way they can keep the team if that’s true.”
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2011 Mets- Rock bottom: We haven't reached it yet
Shisa
"You can spend minutes, hours, days weeks or even months overanalyzing a situation; trying to put the pieces together, justifying what would’ve, could’ve happened – or you can just leave the pieces on the floor and move the **** on."
-Tupac Amaru Shakur
by NetsMets4Life on Jan 28, 2011 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
1 Billion?
What are they nuts? It would have been cheaper for the Wilpons to blow up an oil well …
Nah
He can’t buy a share. He already owns the Phillies.
It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.
by MookieTheCat on Jan 28, 2011 4:35 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Can't be the Mets made $48M off Madoff investments $1B is a crazy number. They didn't charge banks madoff did business with that much
Freedom is a road seldom traveled by the multitudes...
Unless ...
The gov has some proof that the Wilpons knew it was a scam and actively recruited investors for Madoff, In that case, keeping the Mets would be the least of the Wilpon’s worries. 1B is a stupid number …
That would change the game completely if Madoff and the Wilpons were in cahoots
Freedom is a road seldom traveled by the multitudes...
yeah, then its danger zone
like line up for your mug shot and prison number time.
HELLO HELLO MR WILPON... BUY THAT MANSION. WE DONT NEED A CONDO.
This could be very bad for the Wilpons.
They stand to lose a great deal: maybe everything. But jail time? Nah. The extremely wealthy don’t go to jail. this is bad, but it’s not Enron bad.
by sebastiandeluded on Jan 30, 2011 9:36 PM EST up reply actions
Would you be surprised?
I wouldn’t. Interesting what Darren Rovell said during the Michael Kaye interview. He was quoting former GM Steve Phillips verbatim: “At least once a week, every week for thirteen years, the Wilpons made a comment or reference to Madoff.”
Take that for what it’s worth considering Phillips. BUT! Ya never know!
"Give me liberty or give me Mets!"
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Jan 28, 2011 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
As an FYI
You couldn’t just walk into Madoff’s offices and plop down cash to invest. For the most part, people were introduced to Madoff in social occasions and then were given the “privilege and opportunity” of investing in Madoff’s fund. Giving Bernie money was a sign in the upper echelons of the Jewish community of having ‘arrived’.
One of the things that I was curious about with the Madoff scandal was at what point is the host culpable for the acts of the predator that he has invited? If the Wilpons actively marketed Bernie at a time when they suspected him of being less than honorable, are they culpable for the losses incurred by those investors? Well, we’ll find out soon enough – emails never die …
if that was the case wouldn't they be going to jail?
I feel bad for my little brother. He walked in and saw that the score of the Nugs-Magic game was 88-89 and thought it was high scoring.
All he knows is the Nets.
by Maxyboy on Dec 14 2010
Rex Ryan lobby for championship toe ring.
Yeah but its also possible that the gov can't exactly prove it court but prove it enough
to get the money they want
Freedom is a road seldom traveled by the multitudes...
Thats what I'm saying Gina
1B in damages for 40M in profit from being a long term investor in Bernie’s scam doesn’t make sense. 1B means you did something SERIOUSLY wrong.
Civil penalties are a lot easier to prove than criminal
But everyone needs to take a valium and put on their “this shit can’t possibly be true” caps. I have a feeling that Bart Hubbuch of the Post is descending into Chassesque infamy. Why would you tweet something like this without any sort of proof. It’s just outlandish.
It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.
by MookieTheCat on Jan 28, 2011 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
Mook, see below
Posted link from NY Times quoting the 1B number.
Saw it too this is possibly a huge disaster for the Wilpons
Freedom is a road seldom traveled by the multitudes...
What? You're crazy!
They’re FINE. This will have absolutely NO RAMIFICATIONS on the daily workings of the team.
And as I was typing this, a pig just flew by my window.
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2011 Mets- Rock bottom: We haven't reached it yet
by Syler on Jan 28, 2011 5:07 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Yep ...
If thats the case, the press release was an advertisement looking for someone to put a down payment on a future purchase of the team if the Wilpons get raked over the coals for the Madoff thing.
If the Wilpons are in any way shape or form implicated in the Madoff thing, they’ll be pariahs in this town and will bring all of baseball in a negative light.
I’m now convinced Selig sent the SWAT team to steer the Mets while the Wilpons look to bail …
Thanks for the Time link
Still skeptical because of the “unnamed source” thing, but a lot less skeptical than before. Interesting that Selig made sure that one of his guys was in charge this offseason, no?
It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.
by MookieTheCat on Jan 28, 2011 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
Didn't we all speculate about that, though?
That Selig wanted Alderson to right the ship, I mean? It’d be interesting if it was a preemptive move in the face of a sale.
I am willing to wait to build a world class franchise (h/t to millsy)
by BobbyV_Incognito on Jan 28, 2011 6:06 PM EST up reply actions
I think it was on good authority
That Selig wanted a major market team to stop being a laughingstock and put pressure on the Pons to bring Sandy in, just because he’s proven. I wouldn’t wager a guess that it was anything more than that…yet.
It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.
by MookieTheCat on Jan 28, 2011 6:16 PM EST up reply actions
Right
If the pons were to be indicted for the Madoff fraud, which to be clear I am NOT suggesting has any proof and I find nearly implausible, but in this scenario, there is no way Bud Selig would be privy to any knowledge of this either.
"But also, there are lockers… and it’s a room… so, I call it a locker room."
-Matthew Cutandpasteone
by Dandy Salderson on Jan 28, 2011 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
When Sandy hits
40 homers, 125 RBI’s and has 40+ stolen bases, then I’ll give Bud Selig his due.
"Give me liberty or give me Mets!"
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Jan 28, 2011 6:22 PM EST up reply actions
What?
"But also, there are lockers… and it’s a room… so, I call it a locker room."
-Matthew Cutandpasteone
by Dandy Salderson on Jan 28, 2011 6:28 PM EST up reply actions
Just making a comment about how much worth to put into a GM because he's "proven".
"Give me liberty or give me Mets!"
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Jan 28, 2011 6:37 PM EST up reply actions
WTF
I thought Cerrone had a monopoly on you guys.
"But also, there are lockers… and it’s a room… so, I call it a locker room."
-Matthew Cutandpasteone
by Dandy Salderson on Jan 28, 2011 6:57 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Lou is/was a regular
though I’m surprised at this reaction
John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.
Hey squid
Sorry man. No official opinion on Sandy yet. Just wanna’ see the game played first before I crown someone as savior.
"Give me liberty or give me Mets!"
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Jan 29, 2011 5:15 AM EST up reply actions
that's fair
though at this point, if we can’t be optimistic about a GM replacing Omah, I’d be worried
John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.
Ha!
Received.
"Give me liberty or give me Mets!"
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Jan 30, 2011 7:23 AM EST up reply actions
Not a fan of Alderson?
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2011 Mets- Rock bottom: We haven't reached it yet
I respect past efforts bro.
But…See my comment above to Squid.
"Give me liberty or give me Mets!"
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Jan 29, 2011 5:16 AM EST up reply actions
If thats the case ...
The Mets have been labeled as losers for nearly 40 years. Why should the league care? If they were going to intervene in big market teams that act stupid, he should have sent the SWAT team to the Angels or the Chicago cubs.The Mets were Jeff’s toy. No way would he give that up
Well...
…If Pujols gets what he wants, baseball will be viewed in a negative light. Rumors of $300 mill??? (PTI) Get the hell out of here.
"Give me liberty or give me Mets!"
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Jan 28, 2011 5:39 PM EST up reply actions
As evil as Madoff's Ponzi scheme was
it may have done Mets fans a solid.
"The Mets are gonna be amazin'!" - Casey Stengel
"Bounding and astounding!" - Clyde Frazier
As much as that could be a positive for the Mets
I still feel bad for the poor s.o.b.’s who invested w/that pig. But then again: “Buyer beware.”
"Give me liberty or give me Mets!"
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Jan 28, 2011 5:40 PM EST up reply actions
I can't believe that anyone would put all of their money into a hedge fund
That’s for money that you can afford to lose.
"The Mets are gonna be amazin'!" - Casey Stengel
"Bounding and astounding!" - Clyde Frazier
Makes you wonder
“what” those type of investors knew, huh?
"Give me liberty or give me Mets!"
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Jan 28, 2011 6:23 PM EST up reply actions
Uhh that they were getting nearly 2% a month
like clockwork.
"But also, there are lockers… and it’s a room… so, I call it a locker room."
-Matthew Cutandpasteone
by Dandy Salderson on Jan 28, 2011 6:29 PM EST up reply actions
Rhetorical statement on my part fella.
"Give me liberty or give me Mets!"
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Jan 28, 2011 6:38 PM EST up reply actions
1 billion??? how?
I feel bad for my little brother. He walked in and saw that the score of the Nugs-Magic game was 88-89 and thought it was high scoring.
All he knows is the Nets.
by Maxyboy on Dec 14 2010
Rex Ryan lobby for championship toe ring.
it's gotta be damages too
or that’s actually how much the wilpons had on the books with madoff, in which case they definitely knew the deal was crooked. or they are monumentally dumb. so actually it could go either way.
HELLO HELLO MR WILPON... BUY THAT MANSION. WE DONT NEED A CONDO.
yeah thats what I figured but still 1 billion in damages
seems like kind of a huge amount. I’d really love to see a breakdown of that estimated number.
I feel bad for my little brother. He walked in and saw that the score of the Nugs-Magic game was 88-89 and thought it was high scoring.
All he knows is the Nets.
by Maxyboy on Dec 14 2010
Rex Ryan lobby for championship toe ring.
$1 billion is plain, flat out wrong
The trustee only sued them for $48 million. $1 billion has been recovered thus far from all sources, or at least this was true as of last month.
It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.
by MookieTheCat on Jan 28, 2011 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
The only scenario I can think of
is if they can prove that Fred knew about the scam, he could be responsible for the entire principal of anyone who invested through his referral. Hardly plausible though.
"But also, there are lockers… and it’s a room… so, I call it a locker room."
-Matthew Cutandpasteone
by Dandy Salderson on Jan 28, 2011 6:21 PM EST up reply actions
Here's what we can do
Get 10 people to invest $2000 offering a guaranteed profit and then have each of them get 10 more people to invest another $2000 and so on and so forth. By level 4 you will have the $200 million to buy the club. The only problem is that in order to pay off the original 10 people, more and more people would have to invest so that the money could funnel down in an almost triangular formation until the original investors are paid off. It’s foolproof.
"Anybody with ability can play in the big leagues. But to be able to trick people year in and year out the way I did, I think that was a much greater feat." -Bob Uecker
"Who is the girl in the dugout, with the long hair? What's going on here? You have got to be kidding me. Only player personnel in the dugout. I won't say that women belong in the kitchen, but they don't belong in the dugout." -Kieth Hernandez
by metman726 on Jan 28, 2011 4:26 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
I knew an Italian gent who had a similar investment plan.
It was great, 50% returns! A sure thing!
I don’t know what happened to him, though. Haven’t heard from him lately.
We've got ourselves a ball club, the Mets of New York town!
by kingcritical on Jan 28, 2011 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
Frank Catalanotto?
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Jan 28, 2011 4:47 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Sounds like my Uncle Pepe, from the Old Country
Pepe Roni was his full name.
HELLO HELLO MR WILPON... BUY THAT MANSION. WE DONT NEED A CONDO.
Is this one of those schemes
where you get an email from the son of the deposed King of Nigeria looking for help?
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
by Steve Schreiber on Jan 28, 2011 10:32 PM EST up reply actions
brilliant, this plan is foolproof
where do i sign up
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 28, 2011 11:56 PM EST up reply actions
its easy
just drop off a bag with $2000 cash money and your name and contact info into the garbage can on the corner of 53rd and 6th (next to platters) and your investment will be recorded. You will receive a confirmation e-mail within 2 days…then you will own 1/100,000th of 20% of the Mets (which i believe can get you special VIP access to Shake Shack)…until you receive you $5000 buyout then you own nothing (and have to stand online with everybody else.
"Anybody with ability can play in the big leagues. But to be able to trick people year in and year out the way I did, I think that was a much greater feat." -Bob Uecker
"Who is the girl in the dugout, with the long hair? What's going on here? You have got to be kidding me. Only player personnel in the dugout. I won't say that women belong in the kitchen, but they don't belong in the dugout." -Kieth Hernandez
by metman726 on Jan 29, 2011 1:45 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
NY Times mentions the 1B number ...
Here’s the quote from the Times ….
One person involved in the Madoff cases said it was possible that Picard was seeking as much as $1 billion from Wilpon and Katz.
“I think he has a very serious problem," the person said of Wilpon. “If that’s true, he might have to sell the Mets.” The person asked not to be identified because of the sensitivity of the Mets’ situation.
Watching Daily News Live on SNY....
They have no knowledge of this tidbit.
Probably mention it tomorrow….
Mets fans, our Dream of the Wilpons selling the team may come true at last.
"...sensitivity of the Mets' situation."
$hit pisses me off.
"Give me liberty or give me Mets!"
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Jan 28, 2011 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
Oh goodness channel 7 news just said they are being sued for $1B
Freedom is a road seldom traveled by the multitudes...
Four words sum this up
Its Not Fucking Enough!!!!
by ScottfromPeekskill on Jan 28, 2011 5:14 PM EST reply actions
That's what you get when this guy's your financial adviser
by lstorie1971 on Jan 28, 2011 5:20 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
Damn him and his Riddler jacket!
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Jan 28, 2011 5:23 PM EST up reply actions
Or this guy
It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.
by MookieTheCat on Jan 28, 2011 5:35 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
He started out doing really smart investing he just spread himself very thin
Freedom is a road seldom traveled by the multitudes...
Ummmmmmm
Seriously, no. He made some money in a skyrocketing market and then blew everything.
It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.
by MookieTheCat on Jan 28, 2011 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah he made a LOT of money is a short period which is smart. The bad thing is he
kept investing on margin and created a disaster for himself when the market dropped. He was all over the place and had no reserves to withstand the losses.
Freedom is a road seldom traveled by the multitudes...
It's easy to make a lot of money in a short period when all markets are rising
On the edge of a rapidly expanding bubble. He was just a halfwit day trader who made money when it was easy, attributed it to skill rather than luck, leveraged everything, spent too much on credit, and didn’t see the collapse coming. Oh and his magazine was a ridiculous idea.
There are tons of houses that used to contain folks like this now sporting signs reading “Foreclosed.”
It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.
by MookieTheCat on Jan 28, 2011 6:06 PM EST up reply actions
Very true but I will say this not everyone can make millions when the market is expanding
it does take a keen investor and maybe a ton of luck but trust me a lot of people lose money when the market is doing well too.
Freedom is a road seldom traveled by the multitudes...
Ok so there are a couple points that I overlooked
One being that the Mets Madoff account withdrew more money than it put in. Second is that the Wilpons had several personal accounts over the course of many years with Madoff and we don’t know about the status of those accounts(made money or lost money).
Since the Gov’t is going for $1B then its possible the Wilpons are going to pay a hefty price for doing business with Madoff. The Wilpons probably don’t know if they need to sell the team or not but what is troubling is they need cash right now.
Freedom is a road seldom traveled by the multitudes...
this is just the beginning of the end of this horrible ownership- just hope its not wang
"17-14 is the final, OK? 17-14 fellas. ONE touchdown and we are WORLD CHAMPIONS!! BELIEVE it, and it WILL happen!!"
Wang at least puts money into his team to keep it afloat.
Right now the Wilpons are a giant anchor dragging this team to the ocean floor.
by ScottfromPeekskill on Jan 28, 2011 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
Thats what happens when you cant hold on to good young talent once the salary goes up and no fans turn out to see you play. I was at a game in Nov (?) against the Rangers and there were 2:1 Rangers to islander fans.
This would not have happened even 5 years ago. The fan base is being stolen by the Rangers.
Put that together with the loss of the lighthouse project and the Islanders appear doomed.
Nassau County does not deserve a team.
by ScottfromPeekskill on Jan 29, 2011 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
Oh, I agree, The county screwed them over all but rejecting a privately financed arena and development.
But let’s not act like some of it’s not Wang’s fault. There was no reason he should have allowed (or even forced, according to who you ask) Snow to sign a crappy goalie to a 15-year deal. They’re just not run very well and at lest some (if not most) of that has to fall on Wang.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
15 years is a stupidly long contract.
Was Omar moonlighting in the offseason as islanders GM?
by ScottfromPeekskill on Jan 30, 2011 1:52 AM EST up reply actions
Omar was an intern for a day with the Isles.
’Twas a bad bad day.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
by Steve Schreiber on Jan 30, 2011 1:18 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Mets Fans Become The Next Thing
Saved by Picard.
It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.
by MookieTheCat on Jan 28, 2011 5:34 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
wang's team has to pay a fine for being so far under the salary cap...
"17-14 is the final, OK? 17-14 fellas. ONE touchdown and we are WORLD CHAMPIONS!! BELIEVE it, and it WILL happen!!"
I actually read in Newsday in December about the Mets and Charles Wang forming a strategic partnership that might bring the Islanders to Taxpayerbailoutfiled
I wonder if this was a move by the Wilpons to try to invest $50 million in the Islanders and have Wang pay $250 for a stake in the Mets?
I wonder how they would add an ice rink onto taxthievesfield? Would they demolish the old skating rink that sits alongside the Grand Central Parkway and build it there? Use the parking lot at Taxpayersfield for both?
Interesting.
by ScottfromPeekskill on Jan 29, 2011 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
Damn yo
$1 billion. I’m still mighty skeptical, but if it’s true then well, damn.
It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.
I just don't understand
I know the wilpons are generally fuck ups. But it takes a lot of fucking up to get to a billion dollars worth.
I feel bad for my little brother. He walked in and saw that the score of the Nugs-Magic game was 88-89 and thought it was high scoring.
All he knows is the Nets.
by Maxyboy on Dec 14 2010
Rex Ryan lobby for championship toe ring.
I remember when a million dollar fuckup was a big deal
I would take note, then return to playing with my hoop and stick.
It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.
by MookieTheCat on Jan 28, 2011 6:04 PM EST up reply actions
I've been doing some math
And messing around with federal fraud/civil forfeiture statutes. I’m also at the house of a Phillies fan who is a securities lawyer, who is having a lot of fun giving me shit right now. Neither of us can figure out how a billion dollar number can be arrived at, except if two things happen: (i) Picard abandons the “straight difference between deposits and withdrawals” method he has used in the past in favor of something involving discounted values, interest calculations, or otherwise reflecting time-sensitive withdrawals; and (ii) there is some sort of treble multiplier, which generally reflects a higher degree of moral culpability. I was going to write our thoughts on how (i) and (ii) sometimes work together, but then figured that it’s better to not throw more rumors around. This whole thing just seems to strange, I’m sure there are details that folks are either getting wrong or don’t know in the first place.
It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.
by MookieTheCat on Jan 28, 2011 6:14 PM EST up reply actions
Oh yeah, option (iii)
In discovery additional accounts were found.
It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.
by MookieTheCat on Jan 28, 2011 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
Moral culpability meaning
that the Wilpons knew about the fraud, and possibly helped recruit other suckers?
I am willing to wait to build a world class franchise (h/t to millsy)
by BobbyV_Incognito on Jan 28, 2011 6:21 PM EST up reply actions
Wow, if that is the case then they are fucked.
Lose Mets, do not collect $200, go directly to jail.
They are going to have bigger problems than selling 20% of the Mets! They are going to have to be careful of dropping the soap in front of Bubba the Butt Bandit in Sing Sing.
Will Citibank sponsor Sing Sing if the Wilpons end up there?
by ScottfromPeekskill on Jan 29, 2011 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
If they were facing any time,
they wouldn’t be going to Ossining. That’s a state prison; the charges would likely be in federal court. Just a nitpick.
I am willing to wait to build a world class franchise (h/t to millsy)
by BobbyV_Incognito on Jan 29, 2011 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
Let me be clear
That’s not what the lawsuit appears to be about. First, it’s not criminal. Second, there are a lot of types of liability for doing something that you should have figured out was bogus that falls short of criminality.
It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.
by MookieTheCat on Jan 29, 2011 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
Not to mention that if there was any proof the Wilpons knew about the fraud,
the US Attorney would be after them, too. And I doubt they’d let the trustee go first.
I am willing to wait to build a world class franchise (h/t to millsy)
by BobbyV_Incognito on Jan 29, 2011 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
I know Sing Sing is a state prison but it is a cooler name than "Federal Upstate Prison Facility"
If the Wilpons committed fraud, which looks like they may have done by pulling their own money out of the scheme, but, kept recruiting people to allow their buddies to pull out $$$ before the collapse. IF they did this then prison awaits.
by ScottfromPeekskill on Jan 30, 2011 1:56 AM EST up reply actions
Possibly
I would like to note two things. First, today’s NYT reports that Picard alleges that the Pons “knew or should have known” that it was fraudulent for a variety of reasons. That’s the type of moral culpability I was thinking of, though I doubt it goes to actual knowledge (more like willful or reckless ignorance). Second, it seems like folks are backing off the $1 billion figure pretty quickly. It’s a big, fat round number, but it really fails to make sense in context.
It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.
by MookieTheCat on Jan 29, 2011 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
Watch "The Madoff Affair" on PBS
Link is HERE
Thing is Madoff was usually introduced to his victims by other people that had invested with him. If Picard can show that the Wilpons bailed out of Madoff, yet were still introducing people to him, he can’t show that there was anything criminal, but can show enough for a civil suit.
The next 2 weeks are going to be very strange around Met-land, since thats when the charges get read and made public.
Apparently, Mark Madoff and Jeffy went to school together, thats how the Pons and Doffs got mixed up.
It appears that the Pons withdrawal of funds before the collapse MAY have been slightly more than lucky.
Their problem lies with the Feds trying to prove that the Pons kept luring people into the scheme AFTER they knew it was a Ponzi scheme and it was going to go bust. Pons buddies also luckily removed some money before the final rupture and this looks kinda bad. Again, this is if the Feds can prove fraudulent behavior.
But it is ok, Jeff looks good in striped outfits.
by ScottfromPeekskill on Jan 30, 2011 2:05 AM EST up reply actions
Re (ii)
Based on the numbers we have assumed, you cant get to 1b. They have to be holding the pons responsible for investment principal.
"But also, there are lockers… and it’s a room… so, I call it a locker room."
-Matthew Cutandpasteone
by Dandy Salderson on Jan 28, 2011 6:27 PM EST up reply actions
I've been trying to figure out
the $1 billion thing since I saw it. $1 billion strikes me as way too high a number for even what I would assume is the most liberal application of choice (i). It seems the only way they’d get to $1 billion is if they’re holding the Wilpons morally accountable, which would probably require proof beyond “well, Madoff and Wilpon were friends and the Wilpons made money, so of course they had to be in on it.” All that really proves is that Wilpon and Madoff were friends and that Wilpon had reason enough to withdraw enough to put him in the black $48 million. Like, say, expenses resulting from building a stadium, which, even if it isn’t true, is a pretty handy excuse to have.
Right now I’m leaning towards the $1 billion being inaccurate.
That's where I got too
I tried to figure it out with a securities lawyer friend yesterday and we couldn’t figure out any scenario that would support a $1 billion figure.
It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.
by MookieTheCat on Jan 29, 2011 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
the amount lost by investors lured into the scheme by the Wilpons?
by ScottfromPeekskill on Jan 30, 2011 2:06 AM EST up reply actions
But unless they could prove culpability,
I can’t see how Picard could ask for that much. Just because he brought in people who lost that much doesn’t automatically make him responsible for those losses. For the Wilpons to be held personally liable, they’d have to know it was a Ponzi scheme and keep recruiting other victims.
I am willing to wait to build a world class franchise (h/t to millsy)
by BobbyV_Incognito on Jan 30, 2011 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT!
"Give me liberty or give me Mets!"
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Jan 28, 2011 6:25 PM EST up reply actions
Let the good times roll
Gotta love the Mets
R.A. Dickey "I do have thoughts on that. I don’t want to make them public."
THE WALTER REED 3 - Terrible Teammates, Worse Human Beings.
I'm sorry I'm going off topic here, but you can't possibly be serious with signature
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2011 Mets- Rock bottom: We haven't reached it yet
by Syler on Jan 28, 2011 7:47 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
He's a lost cause.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
by Ogre39666 on Jan 28, 2011 9:31 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
you can't cure that kind of ridiculous
just accept he’s a chronic case of sportswriteritis
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 28, 2011 11:58 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
It's a quote and a fact
Enough said
R.A. Dickey "I do have thoughts on that. I don’t want to make them public."
THE WALTER REED 3 - Terrible Teammates, Worse Human Beings.
No, it's idiotic, biased bullshit that ignores facts and reason
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2011 Mets- Rock bottom: We haven't reached it yet
by Syler on Jan 29, 2011 6:26 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Please, tell me how not being able to re-schedule a meeting
with his philanthropic organization to visit Walter Reed makes Carlos Beltran a terrible person. Enlighten us, oh wise one.
I am willing to wait to build a world class franchise (h/t to millsy)
by BobbyV_Incognito on Jan 29, 2011 9:28 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
It's a baseball camp
and its not for the underprivileged
R.A. Dickey "I do have thoughts on that. I don’t want to make them public."
THE WALTER REED 3 - Terrible Teammates, Worse Human Beings.
It's a baseball camp for those who otherwise wouldn't be able to attend baseball camps or other similar types of baseball activities
otherwise called the underprivileged.
And really what does it matter what we call them, they’re kids.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
by Ogre39666 on Feb 2, 2011 1:13 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
They are uber-talented high schoolers
From a U.S. territory not a third-world nation
R.A. Dickey "I do have thoughts on that. I don’t want to make them public."
THE WALTER REED 3 - Terrible Teammates, Worse Human Beings.
So there exist no impoverished or underprivileged people or children in the U.S.?
Yeah, sure…
Save Jenrry Mejia!
by Ogre39666 on Feb 2, 2011 2:46 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
What? Your comment does not apply
They are not kids and they are invited to the camp based on talent level is the point.
R.A. Dickey "I do have thoughts on that. I don’t want to make them public."
THE WALTER REED 3 - Terrible Teammates, Worse Human Beings.
You brought up the fact that Puerto Rico is a U.S. territory
as if it somehow meant they couldn’t possible be underprivileged.
Also, how are the invitees not kids?
Save Jenrry Mejia!
by Ogre39666 on Feb 2, 2011 4:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
High school age
R.A. Dickey "I do have thoughts on that. I don’t want to make them public."
THE WALTER REED 3 - Terrible Teammates, Worse Human Beings.
Legally still children.
And commonly referred to as kids.
I am willing to wait to build a world class franchise (h/t to millsy)
by BobbyV_Incognito on Feb 2, 2011 7:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
A Taste
I bet he gets one from any possible signing bonus
R.A. Dickey "I do have thoughts on that. I don’t want to make them public."
THE WALTER REED 3 - Terrible Teammates, Worse Human Beings.
Or he could just be running a baseball academy
for kids because he loves the game so damned much that he’s doing everything he can to encourage them to play it, too. You know, like a decent human being might.
I am willing to wait to build a world class franchise (h/t to millsy)
by BobbyV_Incognito on Feb 3, 2011 6:08 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Stinks of investment
R.A. Dickey "I do have thoughts on that. I don’t want to make them public."
THE WALTER REED 3 - Terrible Teammates, Worse Human Beings.
And you stink of fallaciousness and casuistic-ness.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
by Ogre39666 on Feb 4, 2011 2:42 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Ouch man
No more Walter Reed talk, I am turning over a new leaf, I am going to be more optimistic and more blinded than Burkhardt and Cerrone put together.
Congressmen do not care about baseball investment camps or elective surgery.
THE WALTER REED 3 - We will never forget.
Ignore that sig line
Bring on 11, but lose the black uni’s
Hey at least we don't have Dan Synder running the ship. D3PO for Life.
I SAID IT SO IT MUST BE TRUE
BOW BEFORE ME MERE MORTALS
John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.
by squid92 on Jan 30, 2011 12:51 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Picard's reaction after looking at the Wilpon's books
IMG_0145.JPG
by Iago on Jan 28, 2011 7:56 PM EST via mobile reply actions
That didn't work
See if this does
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_thRZs8DWIZY/ShstwTMT-UI/AAAAAAAAAEM/3gYgXf-oUC0/s400/PicardWTF2.jpg
by Iago on Jan 28, 2011 7:58 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Can the Wilpons sell? Please?
Squeezed to Song and Bendtner and Song and Nasri oh lovely lovely lovely!
-Peter Drury, the one time his commentating has ever been acceptable.
by Aidan Gibson on Jan 28, 2011 8:17 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
okay
if you had 250 million dollars, would you invest it in a team run by the Wilpons?
the same Wilpons that thought highly of Madoff?
no thanks
hey Wilpons – sell the WHOLE team – if you want anyone to take you seriously
by Cary K on Jan 28, 2011 10:00 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
on the other hand if you buy now, when the 20% is at its lowest
and then the wilpons are forced to sell their controlling share, you have 20% of a potentially competently run baseball team in a huge market.
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 29, 2011 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah
No one is going to buy 20% without a right of first refusal or right of first offer for the remainder of the team. And if the Pons are desperate for cash you can put in a very favorable ROFR or ROFO. This is sort of what the Pons themselves did, coming in a a minority partner to Doubleday then increasing their relative share over time.
It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.
by MookieTheCat on Jan 29, 2011 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
Hmmm... 200 million
I think if Ollie and Slappy pool there money then… (does some caculations)
Boom! They can afford it. Meet your new owners, boys!
John Franco (shoulda been) HOF 2011
OT
So I heard Pujols is looking for 10 years, 300 Million
"You can spend minutes, hours, days weeks or even months overanalyzing a situation; trying to put the pieces together, justifying what would’ve, could’ve happened – or you can just leave the pieces on the floor and move the **** on."
-Tupac Amaru Shakur
I Hate The Wilpons and Want Them To Sell But My Biggest Fear
is Jimmy Dolan might try to buy the team. This is not crazy since he tried to buy the Yankees about 8 yrs ago. That could actually be worse.
money in baseball is a lot different than in basketball, theres obviously no salary cap so he could hide his mistakes
fire quinn/ free plax/get nnamdi
Yes and No
Unless you are the Yankees, every team has a cap on how much they can spend. No official cap makes it easier to hide your mistakes but Dolan is a moron and could no doubt screw up a baseball team too. Hell, he might decide to hire Isiah Thomas since he has a man crush on him.
Awful "jornalism"---and it's Faux!
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/klapisch-New-York-Mets-may-be-hitting-rock-bottom-012811
Unfact-checked nonsense having Jason Bay being the “last Met investment” in December 2008. Pathetic.
I know Klapisch hates the mets
and he has every reason to. But I like his writing.
Normally I'd agree
But read the whole passage:
it’s hardly a coincidence that their last major expenditure — Jason Bay’s $66 million contract — came just before Madoff’s arrest in December 2008.
Getting the year wrong invalidates the point he was trying to make — that the Mets haven’t spent any money since Madoff’s arrest.
by James Kannengieser on Jan 29, 2011 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
Eh
That’s a minor point. A larger one is twisting the question of whether the Mets would have to sell due to Madoff “losses” wrong. The author of that book said the Pons et al lost $700 million and would have to sell all or part of the team. That is clearly untrue. In fact, it’s exactly the opposite that’s true: the Pons are in trouble not for losses, but for gains. Still, Klapisch is right in a number of other ways, IMO, such as his description of the league getting involved to keep Jeffy out of the dugout and to try to resurrect a marquis franchise (or what should be one).
It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.
by MookieTheCat on Jan 29, 2011 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
I don't dispute any of that
And it is a minor point in the grand scheme. I was speaking only to that one passage, and that one passage only. Klapisch says their last major expenditure was before Madoff’s arrest. It wasn’t. It was a year after his arrest. That’s worth pointing out is all. Doesn’t discredit everything else he wrote in the article.
by James Kannengieser on Jan 29, 2011 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
I was mistaken! I thought Selig was a total dickhead but then I read this:
“Selig dispatched Alderson to Citi Field… "to keep Jeff Wilpon out of the dugout" and from making any other bad decisions that could further damage the product.”
Even Selig can see what a bucket of fail Jeffy is and yet Daddy warbucks lets him run the Mets?
Wow, just wow.
by ScottfromPeekskill on Jan 29, 2011 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
Awesome
You should fanshot this.
"But also, there are lockers… and it’s a room… so, I call it a locker room."
-Matthew Cutandpasteone
by Dandy Salderson on Jan 29, 2011 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
Beautful!
All that’s missing is someone getting shot. For some reason, this reminds me of a scene from Oliver Stone’s JFK.
"Give me liberty or give me Mets!"
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Jan 29, 2011 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
Sell! Sell! Sell! Wilpons you idiots! Sell!
if only I knew how to use MSPaint…..this would be a lot funnier reference. oh well.
it can only be a good thing to get rid of these idiots.
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
by feslenraster on Jan 29, 2011 11:10 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
haha! thanks Jonathan
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
by feslenraster on Jan 29, 2011 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
it is good to know
that the Wilpons investment in the team was not affected by the Madoff scandal. That is what I love about Fred & Co. They don’t think it is lying because they know that eventually will be forced to tell the truth.
I would call it Doublespeak
but that would not be fair to George Orwell.
By the way
I consider this turn of events to be Divine Intervention
I feel sorry for Sandy & Co.
Do you think they were briefed on this before they took the job? Nah. Why would the Wilpons think it was advisable to tell the truth to thier new Executive Hierarch? Let’s just wait until a lawsuit hits the news wire.
Maybe this will serve as the proverbial fire to be lit under the players' asses
and they’ll rally around this; take ‘it’ up as their cause and shock the world.
"Give me liberty or give me Mets!"
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Jan 30, 2011 6:52 PM EST up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Amazin' Avenue
Related FanShots on Amazin' Avenue
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recommended FanShots
Recent FanShots
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
Baseball Nation Recent Stories
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- The 10 best things about being a Giants fan
- Spring Swing: Joe Maddon and Co. welcoming big expectations for Rays
- I, Zim Bear: This Rays giveaway is terrifying
- Ask Alex: Are Carl Crawford’s best years behind him?
- Spring headlines: Halladay clarifies anaconda assault, Ichiro will bat third for Mariners
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
