How About A Six Pitcher Bullpen?

by James Kannengieser on Jan 5, 2011 12:00 AM EST

I can't remember the last time the Mets had a bullpen with less than seven pitchers (for an extended period of time). Seven in a ‘pen means five position players on the bench, which limits the possibility of platoons and overall flexibility. Considering the offseason so far, and a few anticipated moves to come, it looks like six relievers and six players on the bench is a viable option come Opening Day. For the sake of this brief thought experiment, pretend these players are signed:

Chris Young/Jeff Francis/other starting pitcher
Fred Lewis, outfielder

This creates a rotation of Dickey-Pelfrey-Niese-Capuano-Young/Francis. The six man bullpen becomes possible since several of the relief options are accustomed to starting or have the ability to go multiple innings. Plus, four-inning wonders Oliver Perez and John Maine are out of the picture.

One bullpen lineup might be:

Francisco Rodriguez
Bobby Parnell
D.J. Carrasco
Boof Bonser
Pat Misch
Mike O'Connor (or a Joe Beimel type lefty)

Not exactly the Nasty Boys. We'll make due with what's available. Still, the six-pen is feasible. Frankie can go more than one inning. Parnell is a former starter, albeit with some minor arm issues. Carrasco threw ~90 innings in relief in 2009. Bonser and Misch also have starting experience. When inevitable injuries hit between now and Opening Day, Dillon Gee, Taylor Buchholz, Manny Acosta, Pedro Beato and Manny Alvarez are in reserve.

The resulting six man bench would have three locks -- Ronny Paulino, Nick Evans, Fred Lewis -- plus three players from this group:

Brad Emaus
Chin-lung Hu
Luis Hernandez
Daniel Murphy
Justin Turner

The Murphy/Turner platoon that many covet is more attractive, as another space opens up for a shortstop. Perhaps Emaus and Turner share duties at second base, with Turner available to play third. If one or more of the outfielders gets injured, an Evans/Lewis (or Lucas Duda?) platoon could be installed without causing roster problems. Plus, resting the regulars becomes much easier.

In 1986, the average NL reliever faced 6.19 batters and lasted 1.45 innings per appearance. In 2010, it was 4.31 batters and 1.00 innings per appearance. This is less about reverting to old school ways and more about taking advantage of relievers' abilities. But maybe this is a terrible idea. Maybe Misch and Gee shouldn't be relied upon so heavily. The resulting flexibility on the bench seems valuable enough to sacrifice a bullpen arm, but that's going with my gut and not looking too deeply at any numbers. Anyway, it's something to think about during the slow march towards Spring Training.

Tweet Comment 28 comments | 2 recs |

Do you like this story?

Comments

Whoa,

I mean I know Nick Evans backed for All Blacks recall after Quins stun Saints, but I didn’t realize this made him a lock.

by Sokojoe on Jan 5, 2011 12:14 AM EST reply actions

I was in Ireland

and I saw a rugby game…featuring Nick Evans!

"The '69 Mets will live on forever. But do you think anybody cares about Ron Swoboda's wife and kids? Not me! And I assume not Ron Swoboda" --Homer Simpson

by isles732 on Jan 5, 2011 12:31 AM EST up reply actions

I'm not seeing how a six-pitcher pen works when the Mets have the thinnest rotation in the majors.

You can cheat towards one fewer reliever when your starters tend to go longer than average. When they go or are likely to go shorter than average, or simply aren’t at all durable, you can’t afford to cheat.

Eric just posted an article that claimed the Mets made an offer to Chris Young, so let’s assume a rotation, however briefly it’s going to last, of Pelf, Dickey, Niese, Capuano, and Young.

Pelfrey is the only Met who will be in the rotation before the All-Star break who has had more than one decent, durable season since 2007, and even Pelfrey isn’t a horse. He’s durable but not topflight durable. He goes a right around six innings a start, and for close to two months last season his ERA was around 9.00. And he’s going to be the 2011 NY Mets “workhorse” . Young has pitched 102, then 76, then 20 innings starting with 2008. Capuano has pitched 66 ML innings total since and including 2008. Dickey and Niese each have had one good, fairly durable season in their entire careers.

This is the kind of rotation that needs eight relievers, not six.

by Jack Str on Jan 5, 2011 12:28 AM EST reply actions

To be fair, It's the kind of rotation that needs to be 8 or 9 deep due to injury possibilities.

I don’t see this starting corps tiring out the bullpen anymore than recent years.

by FrancoTAU on Jan 5, 2011 12:36 AM EST up reply actions

Well, it has no chance of tiring the bullpen out -less- with by far its most durable pitcher out

for the first half of the season.

by Jack Str on Jan 5, 2011 12:39 AM EST up reply actions

Ehhh,

I like the idea of a six-man ’pen could be a good idea, but not with a team with such a weak rotation as ours.

I think the ‘pen looks a lot weaker that way than say if we could take out Bonser (I don’t like this guy at all) and put in say, Buchholz and Acosta (this guy I kind like – had a pretty good year last year when you look at the numbers, although it doesn’t seem that way).

Maybe the idea can be revisited when one of the outfielders inevitably goes down, but for now, I think a stronger bullpen (to make up to some extent for the rotation) is much more important than a stronger bench.

I bet Jerry Manuel just bunted.

by GilbertP on Jan 5, 2011 12:31 AM EST reply actions

I know it's all part of the plan

but man…we’re gonna suuuuuuuuuuuck

John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.

by squid92 on Jan 5, 2011 1:04 AM EST reply actions

Lest ye forget

Beato’s not depth in the wings; he’s either with us to start or likely not at all.

by LeiterMilnerFasterStronger on Jan 5, 2011 1:05 AM EST reply actions

Same with Buchholz.

Francisco Rodriguez
Bobby Parnell
D.J. Carrasco
~~Boof Bonser~~Beato
~~Pat Misch~~Buchholz
Mike O’Connor (or someone else)

by brooklynlou on Jan 5, 2011 7:41 AM EST up reply actions

I meant Beato as depth at least between now and Opening Day

Injuries usually hit during spring training. But yeah, if he’s not on the OD roster he’s put on waivers (I think).

by James Kannengieser on Jan 5, 2011 7:53 AM EST up reply actions

Correct

If he clears waivers, he must be offered back to the Orioles for half what the Mets paid ($25k)

by bjk3047 on Jan 5, 2011 10:04 AM EST up reply actions

If we were going with a limited bullpen,

Mike O’Connor, or some other LOOGY should not be there. You’d get more value from a leftie reliever who has decent splits against both lefties and righties (Brian Fuentes, for example), since he’d be able to effectively pitch to more batters.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 5, 2011 1:11 AM EST reply actions

For the sake of the argument

if the Mets are going to entertain any notion of competing for a wild card spot, one would think they will need a strong bullpen to do so. Let’s assume for a moment the rotation will be the one Jack Str listed above: Pelf, Dickey, Niese, Capuano, and Young. While none of these guys are world beaters, none of them outright suck the way Ollie, Maine, or the gaggle of replacement starters from a few posts ago. Of course, it is very likely this rotation will see its fair share of DL trips.

Anyway, long story short, why not try to copy the 2006 blueprint? If the position players can stay healthy the Mets should have a pretty formidable lineup and most of these starters should be able to “keep them in games.” A strong bullpen could help steal some games.

I’m probably crazy to think this way, but what can I say? I’m an optimist.

"Seriously, Lana, call Kenny Loggins ‘cause you’re in the danger zone."

by keithprime on Jan 5, 2011 2:33 AM EST reply actions

yeah, a strong 6 might be a possibility...

but not the fair 3 plus 3 prayers JK has projected…

the pen needs plenty of tightening before we get to opening day. Besides that, I don’t see the need to add another player who most likely doesn’t see much PT since most of the lineup seems pretty set except for 2B. But that’s most likely to wind up being Emaus until he falls on his face and Murphy hanging around for LHed PH appearances and other scraps. Other than DM, we’ll have Evans, Hu, Paulino and a 4th OFer type.

by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Jan 5, 2011 6:20 AM EST up reply actions

Could work.

One thing the team did well in a couple of the Minaya years was stockpile sixth and worse starters. The Mets rotation hasn’t been great in a long time, but they’ve gotten good performance from starters who didn’t start the year in the rotation. If they can do that again (and Alderson shouldn’t be worse than Minaya at this, though he probably won’t be nearly as lucky) and minimize the blowouts, well, that’s one road to the wild card.

by Jack Str on Jan 6, 2011 12:37 AM EST up reply actions

Dickey can be a reliever on days that he doesn't start

According to our beloved knuckleballer, he is happy to pitch extra innings out of the bullpen. That allows the six pitcher bullpen to act like it is seven. Problem solved.

"The Mets are gonna be amazing!" - Casey Stengel

by Russ on Jan 5, 2011 6:53 AM EST reply actions

I would absolutely love this.

Someone needs to bash it into Collins’ head that he throws 70 and just demonstrated at the end of the year this was possible.

by bjk3047 on Jan 5, 2011 10:12 AM EST up reply actions

heh

Can you imagine bringing in Parnell throwing 99, and then give them Dickey’s knucklers the next go around?

Pelfrey has presented it as a possibility too. the 20 inning game, and he’s repeatedly stated that his body recovers well/quickly from starting. All pitchers do things inbetween starts anyway, so as long as you didn’t spring this on them randomly, they’d be prepared.

In regards to the last time we used a less than 7 pen? Constantly since jerry was manager, since he can’t count past 5 and there were always 1-2 guys in the pen he just wouldn’t use. I still don’t understand whyt he Mets didn’t rename everyone Pedro Feliciano or Fernando Nieve so that they coudl get them innings.

-Ceetar, the Optimistic Mets Fan

by Ceetar on Jan 5, 2011 10:30 AM EST up reply actions

Parnell throwing 98

then Dickey throwing 65
then Krod throwing 96.
Perfect.

Save Jenrry Mejia!

by Ogre39666 on Jan 5, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions

Not a bad idea at all

I guess my sense with Dickey is that, while he shouldn’t be a regular reliever, he’s a guy who can come in on short notice and ably eat innings. It would prevent the six pitchers in four innings scenarios that Jerry was so fond of last year.

It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.

by MookieTheCat on Jan 5, 2011 4:02 PM EST up reply actions

Hell to the yes!

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 5, 2011 11:40 PM EST up reply actions

Just have Dickey pitch every day

Problem solved.

You don't cheer for the Mets. You drink for the Mets.

by Kevin H on Jan 5, 2011 8:38 AM EST reply actions

No Fred Lewis please

that guy is an overglorified glove. too bad they didn’t resign Endy Chavez though….

a six man bullpen wouldn’t be a bad idea.

"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"

by feslenraster on Jan 5, 2011 9:11 AM EST reply actions

huh?

by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Jan 5, 2011 9:27 AM EST up reply actions

yeah

jason pridie is fred lewis, except he’s already under team control and he’s younger.

by Rob Castellano on Jan 5, 2011 10:53 AM EST up reply actions

This.

Once the Tony Gwynn Jr. ship sailed and Collins or somebody said they wanted to see Duda get more time in AAA, Pridie pretty much became our best 4th OF option.

Save Jenrry Mejia!

by Ogre39666 on Jan 5, 2011 2:24 PM EST up reply actions

I think the 6 pitcher pen is more likely to be useful in the playoffs, or in a span when we don't play many games.

I really think with our rotation, it’s not really an option we should strongly consider.

by Stephen Schmidt on Jan 5, 2011 1:37 PM EST reply actions

I like it

I’m a fan of having a deeper bench, with more pinch hitting and pinch running flexibility. Six relievers should be plenty as long as you don’t run them into the ground and play “hot hands” and constantly warm guys up like Jerry did. You need to use all 6 in the pen in a balanced fashion for it to work.

by David G on Jan 5, 2011 2:20 PM EST reply actions