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Around SBN: Ryder Hesjedal Wins Giro d'Italia

The State of the Mets' 2012 Budget

(Photo by Jim McIsaac/Getty Images)

Between the uncertainy surrounding the team's owners and the lackluster attendance at Citi Field over this and the past two seasons, it was unsuprising when Sandy Alderson forecasted a 2012 payroll in the range of $100 to $110 million. It's certainly possible to compete with a payroll in that range, but it will still be a challenge for Alderson to put together a team that can contend next year.

The biggest problem in the short-term is that the Mets have quite a bit of money committed to Johan Santana, Jason Bay, and David Wright next season. How much room will they have to work with under Alderson's estimated budget?

Star-divide

Pos. Player $ (Millions)
C Josh Thole 0.4
1B Ike Davis 0.4
2B
3B David Wright 15.3
SS
LF Jason Bay 18.1
CF Angel Pagan 4.7
RF Lucas Duda 0.4
Bench Ronny Paulino 1.5
Bench Daniel Murphy 0.4
Bench
Bench
Bench
SP Johan Santana 24.0
SP Mike Pelfrey 5.9
SP R.A. Dickey 4.8
SP Jon Niese 0.5
SP Dillon Gee 0.4
RP D.J. Carrasco 1.2
RP Tim Byrdak 1.2
RP Manny Acosta 1.0
RP Taylor Buchholz 0.9
RP Bobby Parnell 0.4
RP
Total 81.4

The Mets have five arbitration-eligible players: Manny Acosta, Taylor Buchholz, Angel Pagan, Ronny Paulino, and Mike Pelfrey. I'm guessing they tender contracts to all five. Acosta is a no-brainer, Buchholz will be cheap enough that he could be an incredible value if he simply plays, and Pagan, Paulino, and Pelfrey may not be great but fill roles for which the Mets do not have an obvious internal replacements. Their estimated salaries, loosely based upon the predictions of MLB Trade Rumors, total $14 million.

That leaves the Mets with $81.4 million in salary commitments for next season. That's a range of $18.5 to $28.5 million in spending money for the roster, depending on which end of Alderson's estimate the payroll winds up.

The Mets need to address a few positions, but clearly the main concern is whether or not they will be able to bring back Jose Reyes. If they do, they'll certainly use one Daniel Murphy, Justin Turner, or Ruben Tejada at second base. Even without Reyes, there's a chance that those three players constitute the middle infield.

Aside from that, the Mets will need at least one or two relief pitchers, and they would be wise to add depth to their rotation since Johan Santana's health is far from a guarantee. Last but not least, they do have to fill their bench, but that could mostly be done with league-minimum players if necessary.

With or without Reyes, there's not a ton of money to work with for next year, but the margin is not so thin that every open spot on the roster must be filled by $400,000 players. I would guess that if the Mets don't bring back Reyes, their total payroll will be closer to $100 million. If they do sign Reyes, they'll probably push the limits of their self-imposed $110 million cap.

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PAY THE MAN!

__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden

by Russ on Oct 18, 2011 1:24 PM EDT reply actions  

All I can say is

Thank gad K-Rod is gone.

by TheBigStapler on Oct 18, 2011 1:26 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

As much as I like Jose and want him back

Its clearer every day that paying him 18m for 5+years is not a good idea for the longterm

by viktor06 on Oct 18, 2011 1:34 PM EDT reply actions  

$108m for 6 years

I’d do that in a heartbeat.

by guyfish on Oct 18, 2011 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Funny

This is my limit, on the button this.

Mets, Devils, Jets, Knicks
Follow me on Twitter: @ZachandKovy917
Dickey be Praised!

by santana9237 on Oct 18, 2011 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was saying $116/6, so not too far off

Mets, Jets, Islanders, Knicks.
GO RANGERS! Get Endy a ring!

by piazza62 on Oct 18, 2011 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Insurance

Big ticket players contracts are often partially insured, although I have no idea if the amounts are published. It is likely that several million of Santana’s contract last year was covered by insurance. If he is unable to play next (not bad, only if he physically cannot pitch) they’ll get some insurance money to help pay for another injury gamble like Capuano or Young.
If Jason Bay had been out all year with that concussion, we could have had Delmon Young.

by Hjasen on Oct 18, 2011 1:54 PM EDT reply actions  

AFAIK only (a few) position player contracts are insured and only for the first 3 years.

The Mets chose to make “internal insurance”, like instead of paying an insurance company, they pooled the money aside in an account, in case any player got hurt.

In lobby for: Jaime Cevallos, Zack Lutz, orange unis and Rickroll as the 7th inning song.
The Unwritten Rules of AA

by Michkin on Oct 18, 2011 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Let me fix this

Pos. Player $ (Millions)
C Josh Thole 0.4
1B Ike Davis 0.4
2B
3B David Wright 15.3
SS
LF Jason Bay 18.1
CF Angel Pagan 4.7
RF Lucas Duda 0.4
Bench Ronny Paulino 1.5
Bench Daniel Murphy 0.4
Bench
Bench
Bench
SP Johan Santana 24.0
SP Mike Pelfrey 5.9
SP R.A. Dickey 4.8
SP Jon Niese 0.5
SP Dillon Gee 0.4
RP D.J. Carrasco 1.2
RP Tim Byrdak 1.2
RP Manny Acosta 1.0
RP Taylor Buchholz 0.9
RP Bobby Parnell 0.4
RP
Total 81.4

One day, this team is going to kill me.

by fxcarden on Oct 18, 2011 2:02 PM EDT reply actions  

damn.......posted too soon

Pos. Player $ (Millions)
C Josh Thole 0.4
1B Ike Davis 0.4
2B RUSS 0.0000001
3B David Wright 15.3
SS Kannonlaser TRAID
LF Jason Bay 18.1
CF Angel Pagan 4.7
RF Lucas Duda 0.4
Bench Ronny Paulino 1.5
Bench Daniel Murphy 0.4
Bench CTREfJay 0.000000000001
Bench BurleighGrimes 0.0000000001
Bench MetsFan4Decades 0.000000001
SP Johan Santana 24.0
SP Mike Pelfrey 5.9
SP R.A. Dickey 4.8
SP Jon Niese 0.5
SP Dillon Gee 0.4
RP D.J. Carrasco 1.2
RP Tim Byrdak 1.2
RP Manny Acosta 1.0
RP Taylor Buchholz 0.9
RP Bobby Parnell 0.4
RP FXCARDEN 0.0000000001
Total 81.4

One day, this team is going to kill me.

by fxcarden on Oct 18, 2011 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Man

why does Russ get paid more then anyone else the easy solution is to clone dickey into 25 players to play all the positions. Duh!

Don't feed the TROLL!...You have been warned.

by the maroon bird on Oct 18, 2011 2:11 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

My agent is Scott Boras

That’s why I’m getting $0.0000001!

__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden

by Russ on Oct 18, 2011 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

That explains it

Scott “overpay” Bora$

Don't feed the TROLL!...You have been warned.

by the maroon bird on Oct 18, 2011 4:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

hahaha

I’ll bring my pom-poms and do it for free.

But wait, that won’t work. According to Keith, females have no place in a MLB dugout.

by MetsFan4Decades on Oct 18, 2011 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

we will make our own ladies-only section of the clubhouse

along with Gina. It’ll be great. I’m pretty sure I’d be at least as competent a bench piece as Gary Matthews Jr., etc.

by BurleighGrimes on Oct 19, 2011 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

That Bay contract really hurts

You don't cheer for the Mets. You drink for the Mets.

by Kevin H on Oct 18, 2011 2:05 PM EDT reply actions  

I see the Bay contract as gift

Just like Herpes: The gift that keeps on giving.

__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden

by Russ on Oct 18, 2011 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

After Reyes

How much they push that 110 mark will likely be determined by what’s out there. That’s the whole point of Alderson’s flexibility statements. If the guy they want/need to make the rotation better pushes them to 112, that’s the very point of having that flexibility.

Either way the payroll on Opening Day, sans off-season injuries, is likely to be higher than it was last year. money != wins, but it’s certainly a start.

-Ceetar, the Optimistic Mets Fan

by Ceetar on Oct 18, 2011 2:11 PM EDT reply actions  

In addition to "What is the Mets 2012 budget?"

I’d like to know, beyond 2012, Is this the lowest the payroll will get? and How long until the payroll can start to climb again?

I suppose these are difficult questions to answer without knowing the outcome of the Picard case among other factors.

If the team’s payroll can start going up in 2013, it doesn’t seem as bad to give out a multi-year contract to someone to help the team improve. If, in fact, the payroll has a realistic chance of going down further, then such a contract may not even be possible.

by TheBigStapler on Oct 18, 2011 2:17 PM EDT reply actions  

It might depend on how the 2012 team competes.

The payroll can only go so low if the Mets have Santana, Bay, Wright and Reyes on the books in 2013. If the 2012 Mets are competitive enough to stay in the hunt and bring in some extra attendance and TV ratings through next summer, perhaps they can generate enough extra revenue to justify adding another piece before the Bay and Santana contracts come off the books.

by xnumberoneson on Oct 18, 2011 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

buy tickets

if you all buy season tickets and plans, the budget will go up. This obviously won’t happen until they start winning, but that’s what it would take. if 1000 more people bought 2 season tickets, the expected revenue would get a big bump, and they could then factor that into the payroll.

-Ceetar, the Optimistic Mets Fan

by Ceetar on Oct 18, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think Pelfrey is going to get that much

Arbitration takes into account the recent past, and Pelfrey only has a singular decent year sandwiched between two clunkers. His main stats are unimpressive, as are his peripherals important to his skill set (GB%, for example). Scott Boras is his agent, sure, but he doesn’t really have much leverage to ask with. Too high a bid, the arbiters are likely to reject it, and something too high proposed to Sandy, he’d probably be willing to call the bluff and go to an arbitration hearing.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Oct 18, 2011 2:29 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

it's gonna be close

I doubt the Mets and Boras are gonna bicker over 500k. They’ll come to an agreement prior to arbitration, for less than 5.9

-Ceetar, the Optimistic Mets Fan

by Ceetar on Oct 18, 2011 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

A million dollars or so will go a long way

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Oct 18, 2011 4:52 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I'd like to know the minimum

he’s required to get. I thought I read somewhere that each player is guaranteed 80% of their current salary. I must have that wrong though because I haven’t read anywhere that Pelf could likely take a pay cut. It’s always a discussion on how much of a ‘raise’ he can expect.

by MetsFan4Decades on Oct 18, 2011 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm looking at 2009-2010the numbers published by TheBusinessOfBaseball

And a few guys have gotten as little as 3% raises.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Oct 18, 2011 5:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

That's true.

Each player is guaranteed 80% of their current salary but it is very very rare for the salary arbitration system to lower a player’s salary. Typically, they’ll get some sort of raise, even if minimal.

The only way a player’s salary decreases is when the team and player agree to a deal before going to arbitration or when the team non-tenders the player and re-signs them for less.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.

by Steve Schreiber on Oct 18, 2011 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is there any update on Buchholz at all?

His whole ordeal doesn’t seem like a timetable thing. I was happy about the signing last offseason, would like to see him have some success here.

Mets, Devils, Jets, Knicks
Follow me on Twitter: @ZachandKovy917
Dickey be Praised!

by santana9237 on Oct 18, 2011 3:44 PM EDT reply actions  

That ship has sailed

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Oct 18, 2011 4:49 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Haven't seen anything.

The last thing I read on this was comments fromTaylor himself, thanking the Mets for being patient as he worked through this problem and tried to get stability with a combination of therapy and meds (if necessary). He said something about not knowing how long it was going to take but being grateful the Mets organization was looking out for his health.

That was quite awhile ago I believe, so have no idea how his ‘rehab’ is going or where he’s at right now.

by MetsFan4Decades on Oct 18, 2011 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was wondering too.

I hope he’s worked out his issues because he could be a really nice bullpen piece if he’s alright…he was one of the best relievers on the team through the first month and a half.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.

by Steve Schreiber on Oct 18, 2011 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Payroll Could Be Lower

If Reyes signs elsewhere, that would set the Mets back three years. Instead of contending in 2013 or 2014, they’d have to wait for their low minor leaguers AND the ones behind them to reach the majors.

You need six plus bats to have a championship caliber NL lineup. The four corners are the easy ones. The Mets had Beltran in CF and Reyes at SS. Without either one, where are the plus bats coming from?

Under those circumstances, I could see the Mets dumping DW just to save money, along with Bay and Santana if they show enough to have some team willing to take PART of their salary in a trade for virtually nothing. Just get the payroll as low as it will go, to survive a few lean years with lower attendance.

by WT Economist on Oct 18, 2011 6:57 PM EDT reply actions  

Then you have the Mid-90's Mets

and there is no way I can advocate that.

Mets, Jets, Islanders, Knicks.
GO RANGERS! Get Endy a ring!

by piazza62 on Oct 18, 2011 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

What a waste Carrasco is on there

Hopefully he is outright cut during the offseason, he’s done.

by David G on Oct 18, 2011 7:01 PM EDT reply actions  

Some additions/changes

Dollars to donuts Paulino gets non-tendered in favor of Nickeas, saving $1 million. The bench really isn’t all that up in the air. Justin Turner and Ruben Tejada are both pretty close to locks (with at least one of those to or Murphy starting). I’d bet that Nick Evans and Mike Baxter take up another two spots if Pagan comes back, especially if Captain Kirk can play CF as a call-up if Pagan goes down. So that’s your bench at an additional $1MM. If Reyes doesn’t come back, maybe Pridie or someone is Mr. 25.

Learn something new every day: http://dlewis.net/nik

by Dan Lewis on Oct 18, 2011 10:50 PM EDT reply actions  

One good thing

At least this winter, there is more major league ready depth already on the roster than there was last winter or even two years ago. Pretty much the entire bench can take care of itself if Reyes is re-signed. With Tejada / Murphy at 2b (and the other one on the bench), that leaves 4 bench spots open for the backup C, Evans as 1b-LF and PH vs. L off the bench, Turner as backup IF, Pridie as backup OF / PR. Murphy serving as a PH vs. R deluxe when he´s not starting.
Essentially, the Mets need to figure out whether to keep Pelfrey & Pagan at their projected salary. I´d say keep them – but also would be very much open eventually trading them.
Also, I´d really think about contacting the White Sox for a Jason Bay for Alex Rios deal straight up with no salary difference being made up. Bay (16 mio in each 2012 and 2013, plus 3 mio buyout or vest) could bounce back some in the AL while Rios (12 mio in each 2012, 2013 and 2014) plays better defense and could also play RF while shifts Duda to LF or CF if Pagan is non-tendered.
While it´s certainly a good question how much bounceback potential Rios has, fact is he´s a top athlete and at age 30, may benefit from a fresh start.
Most of all, I´d rather have Rios and an extra 4 mio $ to spend in each 2012 and 2013 and no worry about Bay´s vest and option while paying Rios 12 mio in a year when there´s far more flexibility again in 2014.

by Doob on Oct 19, 2011 12:49 AM EDT reply actions  

I think we have enough crappy players

to play crappy outfield without worrying about rios.

Mets, Jets, Islanders, Knicks.
GO RANGERS! Get Endy a ring!

by piazza62 on Oct 19, 2011 1:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

ah Jason Bay....

thank you Omar

"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"

by feslenraster on Oct 19, 2011 6:51 AM EDT reply actions  

Let Reyes Go and Trade Wright

They have to let Reyes go and trade Wright and get some return for him in the form of prospects or pitching.

Unless they can get Reyes to sign for 5/75, which seems incredibly unlikely.

The Bay contract is just awful. At least with Santana you get a A starter when he’s healthy.

As for FA fortunately for the Mets there seem to be a lot of quality pitchers that may be available at low prices. Case in point: Brad Penny (put him in the bullpen); Javier Vazquez, Jon Garland…some high risk but possibly cheap options available.

If Murphy and Ike Davis can stay healthy this team could surprise some people. It’s already much, much younger than it was last year without Beltran and other players.

by halflink123 on Oct 19, 2011 11:53 AM EDT reply actions  

To let both of those guys go

We might as well try to move Santana and Bay too, because will not compete anytime before 2015. The two picks we get for Reyes are at best 3 to 4 years away. And we most likely won’t get MLB ready pitching in a trade for Wright. And we already have a slew of Pitching and OF prospects that may be ready by the end of 2012/sometime in 2013 depending how optimistic you are. So great, we have more prospects that are a few years away.

I don’t know what’s the objective: putting the money and proper process into a winning team, or fielding a team with a payroll under $80 million? Because letting Reyes and Wright go only accomplishes the latter. To me, I think these are the veterans you’re going to want to anchor a winning team once all this young talent starts panning out and producing on the big league level. If we let them go, at some point in 2013 or 2014, we’re going to be looking for guys who would’ve brought exactly what they do to the team.

by MetsCity on Oct 19, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

wait whatt

so you’re saying if we dump Wright and Reyes we’ll somehow still be trying to compete?

i don’t understand what’s happening in this post.

amest I bovvered forsooth?
ARE YOU DISRESPECTING THE HOUSE OF CITI
ARE YOU CALLING REYES A POX RIDDEN WENCH
ARE YOU CALLING DAVID WRIGHT A GOODLY ROTTEN APPLE
CAUSE HE AIN'T EVEN A GOODLY ROTTEN APPLE THOUGH

by Gina on Oct 19, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Let me help you

He’s right and we’re wrong.

Within one of the links, there is a cameo from Ron Paul! Cause this site needs politics injected into more conversations. Thanks halflink, you’re an amazing person for someone with only half a mind.

by Evan_S on Oct 19, 2011 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's what confused me.

If you’re trading Wright and letting Reyes walk (a scenario I’d be okay with ONLY if you could get Drew Pomeranz and Arenado from the Rockies), that’s fine but you’d basically be conceding 2012 and probably 2013 too. Without Wright and Reyes on board, you’re basically going to play the waiting game for the crop of pitching prospects to develop (which granted, would be an excellent crop in Pomeranz, Harvey, Famillia, Wheeler and Mejia) and go from there to piece together some semblance of an offense (basically the 2008-2011 SF Giants model).

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.

by Steve Schreiber on Oct 19, 2011 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Let me explain

Trading Wright: Wright is not the player he once was AND he’s making $15M next year. Now what would you rather have? David Wright or 3 pitchers for $5M apiece (let’s say one of those pitchers is Javier Vazquez, just for arguments sake). Wright WAS (key word: was, not is) one of my favorite Mets. But is he replaceable? Yeah, I definitely think so. Even if we put Murphy at 3B, or sign some kind of FA 3B, such as an excellent defensive 3B, there won’t be that much of a drop off from Wright. You save $15M, you get prospects, you plug the position without much of a dropoff.

Now Reyes is a very valuable player but let’s face it: the Mets have had more than their share of bad contracts. He’s now 29, in his prime, but at the end of a 5 year contract he’ll be 34. Who knows what his range will be like, injuries, etc.

Ruben Tejada can take over at SS; if that doesn’t work they can probably plug Valdespin in there, or Reese Havens, or Wilmer Flores. I know these guys aren’t ready yet, but the point is that there are other options.

Look the Mets had Wright AND Reyes this year-and look at the record this team put up. The point is Wright+Reyes=$30M+ and I would much rather they allocate that to developing the farm system and pitching.

Finally, even without Reyes and Wright the Mets lineup in 2012 would look something like this:

1. Pagan CF
2. Tejada SS
3. Murphy 2B/3B
4. Davis 1B
5. Duda RF
6. Bay / Nuwenheis/ Baxter (sp?) LF
7. Some FA 3B etc.
8. Thole

That’s already not a bad lineup.

So then you take the Wright / Reyes savings and in addition to the prospects you get, sign some pitching, i.e.

1. Santana
2. Dickey
3. Pelfrey
4. Vazquez / Brandon Webb/etc
5. Gee or some other prospect

And like I said maybe it might be a good idea to try Penny in the bullpen

Anyway however this shakes out I think Sandy will do a very good job.

by halflink123 on Oct 20, 2011 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

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