Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Ryder Hesjedal Wins Giro d'Italia

AAOP: Go Elite or Go Home

Bumped from FanPosts. The Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan contest is underway, and here's one example of the many great entries we have already received. You, too, can make a plan. It's your plan, and your plan, you like your plan. The authors of the first, second, and third place plans will receive Amazon gift cards. -- Chris
--

We're getting close.  We have a competent front office.  The Mets no longer destroy prospects.  There are fewer albatross contracts.  The lineup, when healthy, is good enough to contend, although it could be better.  The bench needs to be refined to be able to fill any position at an MLB average level of production.  The starting rotation needs at least two more quality pitchers.  And the bullpen needs to be substantially upgraded.

Unlike last year, the Mets won't participate in the Rule V draft.  Too many Mets prospects are now eligible to be drafted.  All 40 roster spots will be needed to protect as many as possible, and that still won't be enough.  Prospects will be exposed to the draft.  To help manage this risk, players will be traded away for some organizational needs.

With the Mets current financial concerns, it won't be possible to realistically address all of the Mets needs for opening day.  What will be possible, however, is to have everything in place to field a team better than most contenders by the end of the 2012 season.  It may be too late by then to win the wild card, but we will see the Mets improve as the season progresses.  By the end of the 2012 season, we will be fielding a team that clearly will be a contender for the 2013 playoffs.  We will transition to contention by keeping elite players, and adding more elite players.

Star-divide

The Trades

Trade #1 with the Reds

Yasmani Grandal

We need a catcher.  Yasmani Grandal is an elite switch-hitting catcher in the Cincinnati Reds organization at the AAA level.  He was the 12th overall pick in the 2010 draft.  Baseball America ranked Grandal as the Reds sixth best prospect.  Why would the Reds trade an elite catching prospect when they themselves need a catcher?  Because Grandal is their second best catching prospect.  Devin Mesoraco is their best, and he had his cup 'o coffee this past September. 

Yasmani Grandal: switch-hitting catcher
Year Level G PA BABIP BA OBP ISO wOBA wRC+ BB% K%
2010 Rookie 8 33 .333 .286 .394 .036 .336 106 12.1% 12.1%
2011 Hi-A 56 251 .359 .296 .410 .214 .407 137 16.3% 22.7%
2011 AA 45 172 .377 .301 .360 .173 .370 123 7.6% 22.7%
2011 AAA 4 18 .545 .500 .667 .167 .582 276 27.8% 5.6%

"23) Yasmani Grandal, C, Cincinnati Reds, Grade B+: Hit .296/.410/.510 in High-A, then .301/.360/.474 in Double-A. Power, patience, good glove. If Mesoraco doesn't seize the Cincy catching job, Grandal will." - John Sickels, Top 50 Hitting Prospects for 2011: How They Performed

While we're getting Yasmani, we'll also take another prospect in lefty reliever Jeremy Horst.  He's not elite, but we need the bullpen depth.

Jeremy Horst

Jeremy Horst: left-handed relief pitcher
Year Level G GS IP SD MD H/9 HR/9 BB/9 K/9 BABIP ERA tERA FIP xFIP
2007 Rookie 16 0 39.2

7.71 0.45 4.99 11.57 .348 3.18
3.02
2007 Rookie 1 0 2.0

13.50 0.00 9.00 18.00 .500 4.50
2.20
2008 Lo-A 36 10 102.0

6.53 0.26 2.91 9.71 .272 2.38
2.48
2009 Hi-A 23 23 133.0

9.20 1.02 2.77 6.83 .300 3.25 4.28
2009 AA 5 5 29.0

10.86 2.17 3.10 6.52 .329 6.21
5.92
2010 AFL 1 0 1.0

9.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 .250 0.00
3.20
2010 Level 10 0 12.0

8.25 1.50 4.50 6.75 .265 3.75
5.87
2010 Hi-A 11 0 14.0

10.93 0.64 2.57 10.93 .381 4.50
2.77
2010 AA 27 0 43.0

7.33 0.21 1.88 9.63 .291 2.09
1.99
2010 AAA 6 2 14.1

10.67 0.00 3.14 7.53 .370 2.51
2.78
2011 AAA 36 0 51.1

7.19 0.35 2.45 7.36 .260 2.81
3.01
2011 MLB 12 0 15.1 0 0 10.57 1.17 3.52 5.28 .308 2.93 5.00 4.72 4.83


What do the Reds get from the Mets? Well, they need a third baseman, a left fielder, and starting pitching.  We'll send Cincinnati Daniel MurphyKirk Nieuwenhuis and Dillon Gee.  We're getting this done.  We're getting an elite catcher.  Grandal might be ready to start in the majors now, but we'll give him some more time.  Horst appears ready for the majors, but we'll start him in Buffalo too because we need quality depth.  Odds are that Horst will be up in the majors before the end of April.

October 24th addendum:  If this offer is not enough, it will be upgraded.  Perhaps something along the lines of Daniel Murphy and Jeurys Familia for Yasmani Grandal and Jeremy Horst, or just Grandal. The idea here is to get an elite 22 year old catcher who is just about major league ready, particularly because quality catchers are very scarce and rarely available as free agents.

 

Trade #2 with the Dodgers

Hello Ned?  yada yada yada Josh Satin is from L.A. yada yada yada Grission! yada yada yada remember Tony Pena? yada yada yada Francisco Pena yada yada yada needs a change of scenery yada yada yada which is fair for Kenley Jansen.

The Dodgers get a cheap player at first base, as well as a catching prospect who may or may not still be a prospect.  The Mets get an excellent reliever.

October 24th addendum: This is a very unbalanced trade in the Mets favor.  Considering who the Dodgers' GM is, this will still be an opening offer because a) it just might work, and b) for the lulz.  In the event that this doesn't fly, we'll upgrade it, perhaps to include Darin Gorski or Zach Lutz.

Kenley Jansen

Kenley Jansen: right-handed relief pitcher
Year Level G GS IP SD MD H/9 HR/9 BB/9 K/9 BABIP ERA tERA FIP xFIP
2009 Hi-A 12 0 11.2

10.80 0.77 8.49 14.66 .481 4.63
3.89
2010 Hi-A 11 0 18.0

7.50 0.00 3.00 14.00 .385 1.50
1.09
2010 AA 22 0 27.0

4.67 0.00 5.67 16.67 .318 1.67
1.39
2010 MLB 25 0 27.0 11 1 4.00 0.00 5.00 13.67 .231 0.67 1.59 1.82 2.95
2011 Hi-A 2 2 2.0

0.00 0.00 0.00 18.00 .000 0.00
-0.80
2011 AA 5 0 6.0

3.00 1.50 4.50 13.50 .111 4.50
3.87
2011 MLB 51 0 53.2 17 3 5.03 0.50 4.36 16.10 .297 2.85 2.06 1.74 2.09


Trade #3 with the Cubs

The Cubs need all sorts of help.  Allan Dykstra is a very nice prospect who can help them in a year, and maybe sooner. We'll also send Josh Stinson, a promising young reliever.  All that we ask for in return in a reliever.  Sean Marshall is entering the final year of a contract that will pay him $3.1 million.  Why would we trade away a top prospect for an expensive reliever who might only be with the team for one year?  Two reasons.  The first is that Marshall has posted greater than 2 fWAR in each of the last two seasons.  Marshall is awesome, and he will make the Mets bullpen much better.  The other reason is that he projects to be a Type A free agent.  If he does walk after next season, the Mets gets two draft picks.  Why would anyone sign a setup man if it costs a draft pick?  Where are the savezzzz?  Mets fans, meet Sean Marshall - your new "closer."  If for some reason he's not working out in that role, we have Kenley Jansen.

October 24th addendum: This trade may be acceptable to the Cubs based on what their scouts think of Allan Dykstra.  He is a former first round draft pick who was floundering in the Padres system until the Mets traded for him before the 2011Sean Marshall season began.  If they believe in his bat, there is no need to alter this trade proposal.  If there is a need, the trade could be upgraded, perhaps by adding in Robert Carson.

Sean Marshall: left-handed relief pitcher
Year Level G GS IP SD MD H/9 HR/9 BB/9 K/9 BABIP ERA tERA FIP xFIP
2006 MLB 24 24 125.2 0 0 9.45 1.43 4.23 5.51 .280 5.59 5.77 5.57 5.13
2007 MLB 21 19 103.1 1 0 9.32 1.13 3.05 5.84 .285 3.92 4.52 4.62 4.43
2008 MLB 34 7 65.1 4 2 8.27 1.24 3.17 7.99 .276 3.86 4.32 4.39 4.19
2009 MLB 55 9 85.1 10 7 9.60 1.05 3.38 7.17 .309 4.32 5.24 4.19 3.77
2010 MLB 80 0 74.2 29 8 6.99 0.36 3.01 10.85 .294 2.65 3.07 2.28 2.50
2011 MLB 78 0 75.2 32 11 7.85 0.12 2.02 9.40 .313 2.26 2.24 1.86 2.50

 

The Free Agents

José! José! José! Why re-sign him?  Because elite shortstops are very scarce.  Letting José go so that we have more money for mediocre players is folly.  We're going for 6/108, with the contract front loaded: 20,20,20,18,16,14.  We'll also make José and Dubs co-captains.  Team captains in baseball doesn't mean much.  It is, however, a bit of recognition that hopefully compensates for Fred Wilpon's big mouth.  It also won't cost more than the price of sewing "C"s onto uniforms.

José Reyes: Met for Life
Year Level G PA BABIP BA OBP ISO wOBA wRC+ BB% K%
2003 MLB 69 292 .335 .307 .334 .128 .338 105 4.5% 12.3%
2004 MLB 53 229 .289 .255 .271 .118 .293 74 2.2% 13.5%
2005 MLB 161 733 .298 .273 .300 .114 .308 86 3.7% 10.6%
2006 MLB 153 703 .320 .300 .354 .187 .367 122 7.5% 11.5%
2007 MLB 160 765 .302 .280 .354 .141 .346 107 10.1% 10.2%
2008 MLB 159 763 .317 .297 .358 .179 .366 123 8.7% 10.7%
2009 MLB 36 166 .307 .279 .355 .116 .342 110 10.8% 11.4%
2010 MLB 133 603 .301 .282 .321 .146 .329 104 5.1% 10.4%
2011 MLB 126 586 .353 .337 .384 .156 .386 149 7.3% 7.0%

 

Miguel Batista is merely a replacement level pitcher.  Why bother bringing him back?  To help buy time for pitchers in Buffalo to develop, and for the depth that will be needed in the likely event that a pitcher winds up on the DL.  Batista's versatility adds to his utility.  1 year at $900K, and don't expect to see him on the roster in August.  Only the last five years of this 17-year veteran's career are being listed below.

Miguel Batista: right-handed swing pitcher
Year Level G GS IP SD MD H/9 HR/9 BB/9 K/9 BABIP ERA tERA FIP xFIP
2007 MLB 33 32 193.0 1 0 9.75 0.84 3.96 6.20 .310 4.29 4.11 4.52 4.90
2008 MLB 44 20 115.0 7 7 10.57 1.49 6.18 5.71 .306 6.26 6.24 6.23 5.60
2009 MLB 56 0 71.1 15 11 9.97 0.88 4.92 6.56 .319 4.04 4.50 4.64 4.84
2010 MLB 58 1 82.2 7 6 7.73 0.98 4.25 5.99 .256 3.70 4.52 4.76 4.63
2011 MLB 35 5 60.0 9 6 7.35 0.30 4.95 4.65 .247 3.60 5.13 4.38 5.20

 

Chris Capuano will be brought back with a 2/12 deal.  He was a competent starter, and managed to stay healthy for the entire season.  If Santana,Chris Capuano Dickey and Niese outperform him, as soon as at least two of our elite pitching prospects are ready, Cap gets traded.

Chris Capuano: left-handed starting pitcher
Year Level G GS IP SD MD H/9 HR/9 BB/9 K/9 BABIP ERA tERA FIP xFIP
2003 MLB 9 5 33.0 1 1 7.36 0.82 3.00 6.27 .250 4.64 5.11 4.36 4.46
2004 MLB 17 17 88.1 0 0 9.27 1.83 3.77 8.15 .298 4.99 5.50 5.31 4.40
2005 MLB 35 35 219.0 0 0 8.71 1.27 3.74 7.23 .283 3.99 5.14 4.66 4.51
2006 MLB 34 34 221.1 0 0 9.31 1.18 1.91 7.08 .295 4.03 4.27 4.04 4.08
2007 MLB 29 25 150.0 1 2 10.20 1.20 3.24 7.92 .330 5.10 4.31 4.45 4.21
2010 MLB 24 9 66.0 2 2 8.86 1.23 2.86 7.36 .290 3.95 4.02 4.22 3.90
2011 MLB 33 31 186.0 1 1 9.58 1.31 2.56 8.13 .311 4.55 3.84 4.04 3.67

 

The Lineup

Catcher

This is currently a major area of weakness.  The Mets have no catchers who are acceptable as starters, and the most advanced player in the minors, who is a credible catching prospect, has yet to play above Lo-A.  This is why we are trading for Grandal.  Josh Thole is our opening day starting catcher.  By the end of the season, Grandal will have Thole's job.

First Base

Ike Davis will be back.  As long as he stays healthy, the Mets are set at first.

Second Base

This is between Ruben Tejada, Reese Havens and Jordany Valdespin

Of everyone mentioned, Valdespin has the best glove.  Valdespin's offensive potential may be the highest, but he still has question marks.  There are holes in his swing, but he has greatly improved this during the 2011 season.  If Valdespin continues to improve his swing, he could be ready to start in the majors by the all-star break.

Havens has the surest offensive potential, but that is only if he can stay healthy.  Havens has the most advanced bat of any Mets second base prospect.  He should be ready to start in the majors by mid-season, but he has to stay healthy.

Tejada is the safe choice to start the 2012 season.  He has a good glove, and a slightly below average bat.  We'll go with Ruben as the opening day second baseman so that Havens and Valdespin can get more playing time in Buffalo.  But if either Havens or Valdespin outperform the others in spring training, to the satisfaction of the front office, then Tejada will start in Buffalo.Jose

Shortstop

José! José! José!

Third Base

David Wright had an awful season in 2011.  There is reason to hope that he will perform like he did when the Mets were in Shea Stadium.  Wright showed signs of improvement after he returned from the disabled list, and they were driven by a return to his former mechanics at the plate and in the field.  David Wright surrounded by Playboy bunniesIf Citi Field's dimensions are adjusted, Wright may benefit greatly.   There is also reason to be highly skeptical.  2012 will be a pivotal season for David Wright.  If he performs even close to the Shea Stadium David Wright, then he's a keeper.  If he continues to flounder, it will be time to move on, but that time is not now.

Left Field

Face palm.  Jason B...  WHY?!?  OK, Jason Bay will be our starting left fielder.  Bay was awesome in September.  It was only one month, and his excellent performance was BABIP fueled, so let's temper any enthusiasm.  I believe that Jason Bay can perform at the level that was expected when he was signed.  I also believe that he will be unable to sustain that level of performance for an entire season.  We're going for one last chance for an extended BABIPLucas Duda fueled performance and then TRAID!  If we can't trade him, Bay gets cut.  He's got until the trading deadline.  The next left fielder could be The Duda, Fernando Martinez or Juan Lagares.

Center Field

Angel Pagan was terrible in 2011.  This is not the player that Mets fans saw in 2009 or 2010.  Considering the overall scarcity of center fielders, and the lack of credible center field prospects in the Mets' upper minors who might be ready at any time in 2012, Pagan stays.  We're looking for him to get close to his 2010 form.

Right Field

Lucas Duda is a legitimate 3-tools player.  He can hit for average, hit for power, and throw.  We'll just have to overlook the other tools and hope that Duda can learn how to play right field.  He would be better in left where there is less ground to cover, but that real estate is occupied... for now.

The Bench

We'll keep Mike BaxterNick Evans, Jason PridieJustin Turner and Mike Nickeas.  This is not a great bench, but we've also seen worse.Mike Baxter  Why not spend money to improve the bench?  Because this is a rebuilding year and quality bench players can be picked up in any free agent market.

The Rotation

This will be the Mets weakest area on opening day.  The resources are simply not available to sign, or trade for, the pitchers needed to contend.  We'll have to make do with what we have for now.  The good news is that help is on the way.  The Mets have four elite starting pitching prospects that could reach Citi Field in 2012.  Matt Harvey is the most likely, and he could join The Show as early as mid-season depending on how he pitches.  Jeurys Familia will start in AAA, and it is not reasonable to expect to see him with the Mets until the end of the season, provided he is not traded.  Jenrry Mejia is still recovering from Tommy John surgery.  It is possible that he can be fully recovered by mid-season, dominate AAA, and get a late season call up.  Don't count on it.  2013 is more realistic.  And then there is Zack Wheeler.  He has yet to pitch in AA.  Wheeler would have to be lights out in AA, get a mid-season promotion to AAA, and dominate that level if there is to be any chance at pitching in the majors in 2012.  It's possible, but it is more realistic that we don't see Wheeler until some time in 2013.

So we'll start the season with who we have.  Johan Santana will be back, although no one knows how effective he'll be.  R.A. Dickey is rock solid.  Jon Niese will try for his first complete season in the majors.  Chris Capuano was respectable, so we'll bring him back.  Mike Pelfrey will rejoin the Mets for his final season with the club.  Why will this be Big Pelf's final season?  He'll be a Type B free agent.  We'll trade him during the season, or let him walk and collect the draft pick.

The Bullpen

Suckage be gone!  We're adding Kensley Jansen, Sean Marshall and Jeremy Horst to Manny Acosta, Miguel Batista, Pedro Beato, Tim Byrdak, Daniel Ray Herrera and Bobby Parnell.  Actually Batista and Beato did suck to varying degrees, but they stay in the organization.  Beato is a tremendous raw talent, but he needs more time in the minors.  AAA for Pedro until he figures it out.  Jeremy Horst will also start the season in Buffalo.  Batista had a scary BB/K ratio, but somehow performed well with the Mets.  We just need him as a long man until one of the kids in Buffalo is ready.  Don't expect to see Batista with the Mets at the end of August.  We're just buying time.  By the end of 2012, if we need to still upgrade the bullpen, we'll need to get fewer pieces than we currently need.

 

The Transition to Contention

Projected Lineups

Opening Day Salary Opening Day Player Position Trading Deadline Player Elite?
$430,000 Josh Thole Catcher Yasmani Grandal "Yasmani" is Cuban for "elite."
$430,000 Ike Davis First Base Ike Davis Ike was looking elite before that fluke injury.
$430,000 Ruben Tejada Second Base Jordany Valdespin Valdespin is an elite talent with an elite temper.
$15,000,000 David Wright Third Base David Wright Dubs once was, and he's young enough to be again.
$20,000,000 José Reyes Shortstop José Reyes Uh, yeah.
$16,000,000 Jason Bay Left Field Juan Lagares Lagares probably isn't, but he might be.
$4,700,000 Angel Pagan Center Field Angel Pagan Crazy Horse was elite in 2010, but not even close in 2011.
$430,000 Lucas Duda Right Field Lucas Duda Duda's bat is elite. His glove?  Duda's bat is elite.

Projected Bench

Opening Day Salary Opening Day Player Position Trading Deadline Player Elite?
$430,000 Mike Baxter OF/1B Mike Baxter Nope.
$430,000 Nick Evans 1B/3B/LF/OF Nick Evans Who?
$430,000 Mike Nickeas Catcher Josh Thole Are you kidding?
$430,000 Jason Pridie OF Jason Pride He has an elite wife.
$430,000 Justin Turner IF Justin Turner Other than Turner's grission, no.

Projected Pitching Rotation

Opening Day Salary Opening Day Player Position Trading Deadline Player Elite?
$24,000,000 Johan Santana LHP Johan Santana Once upon a time, Johan was very elite.  The only thing about him that is now elite is his contract.  With some divine intervention Santana might be elite again.
$4,550,000 R.A. Dickey Knuckler R.A. Dickey He's a freakin' deity.
$430,000 Jonathon Niese LHP Jonathon Niese No, but he is better than league average and getting better.
$6,000,000 Chris Capuano LHP Chris Capuano He was for one game in 2011, but otherwise, not at all. Cap is just holding down the fort until enough of the elite pitching prospects are ready.
$5,700,000 Mike Pelfrey RHP Matt Harvey Oh, Harvey just might be the real deal. We'll find out soon enough.

Projected Bullpen

Opening Day Salary Opening Day Player Position Trading Deadline Player Elite?
$1,000,000 Manny Acosta RHP Manny Acosta The Acostalypse isn't, but he's become an acceptable bullpen piece.
$900,000 Miguel Batista RHP Pedro Beato Beato has the potential to be elite, but he needs more seasoning in the minors.
$1,200,000 Tim Byrdak LOOGY Tim Byrdak Nah, but he gets the job done.
$430,000 Daniel Herrera LOOGY Daniel Herrera He has the most elite screwball in the majors, but otherwise, not even close. 
$430,000 Kenley Jansen RHP Kenley Jansen Hell yeah!
$3,100,000 Sean Marshall LHP Sean Marshall You betcha!
$400,000 Bobby Parnell RHP Bobby Parnell The speed of Parnell's fastball is quite elite.  After that he's just a lottery ticket to someday become elite.

GM mistakes

Opening Day Salary Opening Day Player Position Trading Deadline Player Elite?
$1,200,000 D.J. Carrasco RHP D.J. Carrasco Only at weddings and bar mitzvahs.
$1,000,000 Gary Matthews, Jr. OF Gary Matthews, Jr. His dad thinks he is.

Adding it up

$109,940,000 We're within budget.

 

What did we do?

We held onto our elite talent. We traded for an elite catcher, something that the Mets have done before with very good results. This helps the lineup transition into one of the best in baseball. The starting rotation is slightly improved. As Harvey, Familia (if kept,) Mejia and/or Wheeler become ready, it will also become good enough for the post-season, but not in 2012. The bench is static for now and can be improved at a later date. The bullpen is greatly upgraded. If the bullpen still needs to be upgraded, there won't be as many positions that need to be improved. So, we're getting ready. We're getting ready for a dynasty.

This FanPost was contributed by a member of the community and was not subject to any vetting or approval process. It does not necessarily reflect the opinions, reasoning skills, or attention to grammar and usage rules held by the editors of this site.

Comment 77 comments  |  10 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

not happening,

Josh Stinson and Allen Dykstra for one of their better pitchers, let alone relievers?

the Reds are NOT trading Grandal either, not for so little anyway. that’s very wishful thinking.

plus you didn’t change the team at all with the average starting rotation….well, meh.

you seriously want Miguel Batista back? ugh….

"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"

by feslenraster on Oct 22, 2011 12:06 PM EDT reply actions  

First, the Reds ARE trading Grandal or Mesoraco in the right deal

There is no reason for them to hold onto both. If Murphy, Kirk and Gee is not enough, the pot can be sweetened with Marte or Flores.

I didn’t try to upgrade the rotation because I believe that doing so is pointless. Are we going to trade assets for WAR 2.0 pitchers? That’s a meh move that I want to avoid, especially with elite Mets prospects approaching major league readiness. We’re not contending in 2012, so there is no point compromising our ability to do so in future years. Why shoot for a wild card when you can actually build a dynasty?

Stinson and Dykstra probably won’t happen for Marshall now that Theo Epstein is there, but it doesn’t hurt to try. Why might they make such a trade? Marshall becomes a free agent after the 2012 season. Would you rather have two draft picks, or a former first round draft pick who appears to be taking steps forward to his potential? The feasibility of such a trade really comes down to what Cubs scouts think of Dykstra.

Batista was serviceable. He’s just a place holder so that reliever prospects can get more time in, and as insurance for injuries.

__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden

by Russ on Oct 22, 2011 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why do you bother resigning Reyes if you don't think the team has a chance of contending next year?

There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ

The 2011 Mets- Rock bottom: We haven't reached it yet

by Syler on Oct 22, 2011 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Because it's not a 1 year contract, and elite shortstops are rarely available

You can’t simply fill in all of the holes in one offseason. Pieces need to be left in place. Reyes is left in place.

__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden

by Russ on Oct 22, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

This.

I don’t see this team or any Mets team having a realistic shot at the playoffs (neither did TB or the Cards, but don’t count on it) this could be an 82-87 win team which at the least can put fans at the park, which will leave much more financial flexibility for the future.

Mets, Jets, Islanders, Knicks.
GO RANGERS! Get Endy a ring!

by piazza62 on Oct 22, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Right, but the payroll will tighten immensely next offseason

so in effect, you’re saying you have no plans of competing until 2014 at the earliest.

There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ

The 2011 Mets- Rock bottom: We haven't reached it yet

by Syler on Oct 22, 2011 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Strawman

What I believe that I explicitly said was that the team, as it ends the 2012 season, will be capable of competing in 2013. As the season progresses:

  • Thole will be replaced with Grandal
  • Tejada will be replaced with Havens or Valdespin
  • Pelfrey will be replaced with Harvey
  • Bautista will be replaced with Beato or Horst. I didn’t mention other relievers in the minors such as Edgin or Leathersitch who could also be ready by the end of the 2012 season.
  • Bay will be replaced with F! or Lagares, which may not be an upgrade, but might be done in such a way as to clear up payroll.
  • Cap will be traded as soon as Familia, Mejia or Wheeler is ready, and that will open up more payroll. This might not happen until 2013 for the benefit of available off-season payroll, but doing so should be an upgrade of the rotation making the Mets even more competitive.

In addition, if Sean Marshall is allowed to walk, the Mets clear up payroll and net two draft picks.

If Batista, Cap, Marshall and Pelfrey are replaced with players earning the league minimum, an additional $14 million is available. Let’s say that Pagan is allowed to walk after the 2012 season. That’s an additional $4.7 million. Now we’re looking at about $18.7 million available for next offseason. What if we can move Bay, and not have to eat his entire contract? Not only do we have a competitive team at the end of the 2012 season, but we can make a run at Matt Kemp. We would have eight position players with the potential to be elite, and by elite, I mean 5+ WAR seasons. I believe that this does allow us to compete in 2013.

And the 2013 rotation? Santana, Dickey, Niese, Harvey, Familia, Mejia, and/or Wheeler each at about 3 WAR.

I haven’t even added in the bench or bullpen, and we’re already looking at a team that could win over 100 games barring injuries.

__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden

by Russ on Oct 23, 2011 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

i would replace

anyone on the bench with those call-ups before Tejada.

You bench and starting pitcher really scare me.

You spend a ton of money on caps and pelf, with a best case scenario in mediocrity.

The bench, i get will be replaced, but it will be very frustrating when TC needs to call a pinch hitter.

I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."

Like the really funny uncle with a healthy bourbon habit who matches every brilliant Thanksgiving story with one or two ill-advised racist jokes or boob grabs, we’re stuck with Melo. So we might as well learn to love him — quirks and all. http://knickerblogger.net/2011-report-card-carmelo-anthony/

by gbaked on Oct 23, 2011 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

The trades with L.A. and Cincy are not realistic

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Oct 22, 2011 12:20 PM EDT via mobile reply actions   1 recs

The LA trade is probably not realistic, but I had a lot of fun writing it

It would have to be bolstered, perhaps with Zack Lutz to have a chance at being feasible.

As far as the Cincy trade, I’m not sure. Murphy is probably worth 3+ fWAR next year, and they need affordable help at 3B. Kirk’s viability depends on what the Reds scouts think of him, and the same can be said for Gee. Ultimately Cincinnati really wants an elite MLB ready starting pitcher, which the Mets can’t offer. Switching out Gee for Familia probably gets it done, but is that too much?

__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden

by Russ on Oct 22, 2011 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Personally, I don't think it is

In effect, it’s turning a highly regarded pitching prospect into a highly regarded catching prospect- neither grow on trees, exactly, and both are addressing each others’ weaknesses.

With a few other arms in the system, I wouldn’t be too afraid to trade one, for about the same value in another prospect, at another position.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Oct 22, 2011 12:58 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

oh, ok you you answered what I was going to ask in response Russ...(where Murph would fill in for Reds)

I honestly think Kirk doesn’t do much for them though. they have a whole bunch of 4th OFers vying for spots as is…

Familia for Grandal might be fair, depending on what you think both prospects will turn out to be. and sorry to burst your optimism, but I don’t see this team as a dynasty or making the playoffs in 2012, even if everything went right for us.

"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"

by feslenraster on Oct 22, 2011 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think MY trade with LA was more realistic than that.

Mike Pelfrey is like the perfect Ned Coletti starting pitching acquisition.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.

by Steve Schreiber on Oct 23, 2011 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yasmani is Cuban for "elite"

that is all I need to hear…..rec’d

One day, this team is going to kill me.

by fxcarden on Oct 22, 2011 12:58 PM EDT reply actions  

Some similarities to what I was planning

and for this I curse you.

Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?

by KeithsMoustache on Oct 22, 2011 1:07 PM EDT reply actions  

You should still post yours

It’s not like mine is perfect.

__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden

by Russ on Oct 22, 2011 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh i did, they're still reasonably different

just one player we both went for that might be a bit outside the box is all.

Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?

by KeithsMoustache on Oct 22, 2011 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

You said you're not aiming to contend in 2012

and well, you won’t.

And as said by others, I don’t think those trades as presented are realistic.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.

by Ogre39666 on Oct 22, 2011 2:05 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

It was the best line

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Oct 22, 2011 8:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Giggity Greened Giggity

__________________________________________________________________
Really good kid.A very good player.Not a superstar. #BlameWilponz. Never Forget

by ScottfromPeekskill on Oct 25, 2011 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Besides what's been said,

Would not give Capuano 2/12 by any means. Would probably offer 2-3mm for a single year, and wouldn’t even offer a second year at that rate. I do like the guy, but he is nothing more than a low-end 4/high-end 5 who is probably replacable, to a decent extent.

Mets, Devils, Jets, Knicks
Follow me on Twitter: @ZachandKovy917
Dickey be Praised!

by santana9237 on Oct 22, 2011 4:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Cap posted 1.6 fWAR, and that was worth $7 million

It should be no surprise that many think that he’ll get that considering the lack of quality starters on the free agent market. You might not give him that much, but there are many teams that would.

__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden

by Russ on Oct 22, 2011 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well the lack of quality starters

Probably pushes it up, so agreed on that front. The second year is just something I wouldn’t want to guarantee.

Mets, Devils, Jets, Knicks
Follow me on Twitter: @ZachandKovy917
Dickey be Praised!

by santana9237 on Oct 22, 2011 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

For that money/time

Jeff Francis is the way to go.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Oct 23, 2011 2:06 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I like Jeff Francis

A 4 WAR ceiling in the back of your rotation is an excellent thing to have. Plus he was a big part of that awesome ’07 Rockies team.

Mets, Jets, Islanders, Knicks.
GO RANGERS! Get Endy a ring!

by piazza62 on Oct 23, 2011 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

In my AAOP draft I signed him

but I did a few other things, and in the end, I decided not to. I still like him, though.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Oct 23, 2011 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Duda's bat is elite. His glove? Duda's bat is elite.

That line cracked me up.

Now, kids, being eaten by a crocodile is just like going to sleep; in giant blender.

by meigs1414 on Oct 22, 2011 8:04 PM EDT reply actions  

nice one

Although some may quibble with the details or likelihood of the trades happening exactly as presented, the logic and mind-set behind this AAOP are spot-on. For this, sir, I salute and rec you.

by neoncleon on Oct 23, 2011 3:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Good job Russ

contrary to what others might think, I think you actually gave up too much for Grandal, who hasn’t sniffed the majors yet. Trading Murphy (who has shown that he is an above average player this year) and Gee, who is a middling starter (but is ML ready), plus Kirk, who is our top outfield prospect and fills a need if Pagan isn’t good, is too much for him. Don’t get me wrong, Grandal is a very good prospect, and I would love to have him. But I don’t think you need to give up as much as you propose.

by Ken FS on Oct 23, 2011 4:20 PM EDT reply actions  

I agree with your assessment that I'm overpaying for Grandal

I believe, however, that it is necessary because of market scarcity for superior catchers. When is the last time that an elite catcher, in his prime, hit the free agent market? It rarely happens. The only way that I believe a top flight catcher can be obtained is if an organization has a surplus, which Cincinnati does. If the Reds shop Grandal, most teams will be interested. They will be able to extract a premium in such a market, and we will have to pay a premium.

I believe the the Mets can afford to lose Murphy without diminishing the team. The Mets have depth in the positions that he plays, including options that are, or who have the potential to be superior. Third base is an area of need for the Reds, and Murphy’s contract status should make him attractive to them.

The Reds also need starting pitching help. An elite starter would be much better than Gee of course, but he does help the Reds shore up their weak rotation. The Mets, in my opinion, can afford to lose Gee. With five starting pitchers who should be at least as good as him, we can get by. If an injury hits, we have Batista with the club, and Schwinden in the minors. If Cohoon manages to put it together, he would be even more depth. We don’t bring up an elite prospect prematurely to cover for a stint on the 15 day DL. By the end of the season, at least Harvey should be ready, which makes Gee even less necessary.

I’m willing to trade Kirk because I don’t believe that he has an elite ceiling. He could be a decent cost controlled 2 WAR outfielder for them, and they need a left fielder.

If this trade were to come to pass, I can see all of the other players involved becoming nothing more than trivia questions in future years.

__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden

by Russ on Oct 23, 2011 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd honestly still try and trade for a number two type pitcher

say, someone like Wandy Rodriguez, whom I hear is available.

"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"

by feslenraster on Oct 23, 2011 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like this plan in theory, execution may be a bit tough with all the trades, but thats what imaginationland is for after all

My only complaint is that while I agree spending a lot on the bench during rebuilding is somewhat unproductive, that bench is going to make late innings painful to watch. We would be well set up for the future though

Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?

by KeithsMoustache on Oct 23, 2011 4:22 PM EDT reply actions  

Well the trade with the Dodgers became too amusing to alter

Is Ned really that dumb? We can only hope. If not, I’d still try to make it happen by upgrading it. Perhaps Zack Lutz also.

I actually think that the trade with the Reds is possible. I’d also be willing to alter it with a Murphy + Familia for Grandal + Horst. If they insist on keeping Horst, I’d do it. It would be an overpay, but we would have a catcher.

The trade with the Cubs is hard to gauge. It really comes down to what their scouts think about Dykstra. If they are not enthused about his ceiling, then it doesn’t happen. If they do like him, it could happen as is, or perhaps being sweetened up a bit with a prospect like Gorski.

The bench is not very good, but it will be better later in the year than in in April. It’s simply a choice to spend on assets that will benefit the team in 2013, or that can be flipped (Pelfrey, Capuano and/or Marshall) for team assets for the future.

__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden

by Russ on Oct 23, 2011 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Reds trade is definitely possible, I think Grandal will be moved for a good package, and you're offering quite a bit for him

The sad part is I dont know if Ned is that dumb or not. And I understand why you don’t upgrade the bench, and it makes perfect logical sense, I"m just saying it’s going to be rough to watch that team in 2012. Of course the champaign will just be that much sweeter down the road

Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?

by KeithsMoustache on Oct 23, 2011 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would not get rid of Familia

I know its a high ceiling propect catcher but I think Familia, Majia, Wheeler and Harvey are untouchable and critical for the Mets 2013 and beyond dynasty.Wilson Ramos was traded straight up for Matt Capps. So deals can be done for less at the trading deadline.

by TheKid08 on Oct 25, 2011 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I agree that it'd be tough for me to trade one of these starters.

I’d love to have a high upside catching prospect but this team’s biggest problem is still quality starting pitching at this point. Until that improves, I wouldn’t move any of these guys.

That probably means no Grandal, but so be it. I want studly pitching. Thole is decent enough.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.

by Steve Schreiber on Oct 25, 2011 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

This

Like I said near the top, a theoretical trade involving Familia and Grandal basically turns a highly regarded pitching prospect into a highly regarded catching prospect. Neither grow on trees, but we have more top end pitching prospects than we do catching prospects, so we’re not making ourselves weaker necessarily to address our catching situation.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Oct 25, 2011 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Whoops

Not agreeing, lol, only read part of the post.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Oct 25, 2011 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

These trades normally don't happen.

Prospect for prospect trades are rare.

Also, Grandal is a nice prospect, but he’s no guarantee to be as good as Thole. Why should we trade a big arm for someone like that? Seems like a waste of a resource. I’d use Familia in a trade for Shields, not a catching prospect.

Oh pissing blimey there's jam coming out of the walls!

by TWilliAM on Oct 25, 2011 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

There's no guarantee Familia works out either

Quality catching prospects and quality pitching prospects are in short supply all around.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Oct 25, 2011 6:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

We should load up with good middle relief pitchers

with 2 yr deals. Then Flip them at the trade deadline like Washington did.

by TheKid08 on Oct 25, 2011 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's true

but but the value of a competent starting pitcher is so high that it doesn’t make too much sense to trade away a potential one if you’re not getting a sure thing in return.

I’d rather keep my pitching prospects, especially the ones with high ceilings, and try and fill catcher from year to year, than lessen the chance of developing a true top of the rotation starter.

by vigouge on Oct 25, 2011 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Carpe Diem

The reason to target Grandal is market scarcity and opportunity. Quality catchers are so scarce that simply spending money is rarely an option. How often can an elite catcher, not past his prime, be signed in the free agent market? There is a rare opportunity with Cincinnati. Preferably it is done without trading an elite pitching prospect. If it can only be done by trading Familia, the Mets will have one less elite pitching prospect. Bringing another high quality pitcher in the organization to compensate for the loss of Familia, whether through a free agent signing or a trade, is far more feasible than obtaining a quality catcher.

Another way of looking at this is how we value Jose Reyes. It is so difficult to find a highly productive shortstop that simply having that position locked up makes it easier to assemble a contender. How many teams get that kind of production there? There were only three shortstops who posted 5+ fWAR in 2011, and an additional five who were between 4.0 and 4.9 fWAR.

Quality catchers were even scarcer. Only two above 5.0 fWAR, and none above 6.0 fWAR. There were an additional three between 4.0 and 4.9 fWAR.

We don’t know what type of production Grandal will supply. We do know what level of production that we are getting from that position, and that upgrading it is very difficult. Delaying the acquisition of a quality catcher until later is risky. It may not be possible when we’re ready to make a move. That’s why I believe that we should seize this opportunity now.

__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden

by Russ on Oct 25, 2011 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

Quality catchers are so scarce that simply spending money is rarely an option.

Most teams don’t have big hitting catchers. The Mets have higher priorities and limited resources. (Also, there is no guarantee the Reds would be interested in trading Grandal for anything other than a proven major leaguer. I’m sure they’d do it for David Wright. Still interested?)

Oh pissing blimey there's jam coming out of the walls!

by TWilliAM on Oct 25, 2011 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Let's take these points one at a team
Most teams don’t have big hitting catchers

Most teams also don’t make the playoffs. Superiors teams have things that most teams don’t. Considering how awful the Mets catching is, this is an area where a lot of additional WAR can be accumulated fast.

The Mets have higher priorities and limited resources.
I’m not sure what you think a higher priority is, but if it is pitching, catching is tied into that. Grandal knows how to call a game, which is more than we can say about Thole. And yes, we have limited resources, which is why we’re going after a real catcher who be paid league minumum.
Also, there is no guarantee the Reds would be interested in trading Grandal for anything other than a proven major leaguer. I’m sure they’d do it for David Wright.
The Reds do need a proven major leaguer, but they can’t afford to pick up David Wright’s contract. They’re paying Scott Rolen several million next year, with no idea when he’ll play again. Daniel Murphy meets one of the Reds’ needs exactly.

__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden

by Russ on Oct 25, 2011 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Grandal knows how to call a game

He hasn’t proven anything. Most scouts consider his defense to be shaky at best. Mesoraco isn’t some elite prospect. Mesoraco is a guy who needs polish defensively as has average to above-average offensive upside. That Grandal isn’t as good doesn’t really excite me enough to actually part with top prospects.

And the Brewers made the playoffs with Jonathan Lucroy. Who was Tampa’s catcher? Grandal does not project as an impact catcher. He could easily top out as Kelly Shoppach.

The Mets need pitching. Lots of it. They aren’t in a position to trade it for a lottery ticket.

Oh pissing blimey there's jam coming out of the walls!

by TWilliAM on Oct 25, 2011 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

This.

“The Mets need pitching. Lots of it. They aren’t in a position to trade it for a lottery ticket.”

Maybe if they had the Braves level of pitching depth with a solid big league rotation AND a bunch of potential front of the rotation starters at AAA ready to contribute, sure. But this is a team with very little above average pitching depth. You’ve got Dickey and Niese and that’s basically it. I’d prefer to hang onto as many of those lottery tickets as possible. Even if Familia doesn’t make it as a starter, he’s likely to still be pretty valuable as a reliever anyway.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.

by Steve Schreiber on Oct 25, 2011 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I really like this one.

My front runner for the best, thus far.

by Trey111 on Oct 23, 2011 6:45 PM EDT reply actions  

I'd do an AAOP, but I'm too lazy this time

"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"

by feslenraster on Oct 23, 2011 8:24 PM EDT reply actions  

TRAID.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.

by Steve Schreiber on Oct 23, 2011 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Needs moar grissionz

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Oct 23, 2011 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Prob the best AAOP so far

I like the trades and the logic. You can always argue if the trades are realistic, but these are at least somewhere close. Rec’d

by SwedeMet on Oct 24, 2011 5:54 AM EDT reply actions  

Addendums Added

Many have correctly pointed out that the three trades may not be balanced. To clarify that what was posted are not final offers, and about how far I’d go, three addendums were added: One after each trade, and in italics.

__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden

by Russ on Oct 24, 2011 11:11 AM EDT reply actions  

Here's what I do

If Reyes goes (and I think he will):

Trade Wright (Pomeranz/Iannetta); Murphy to third (Time to move on. Saves the Mets money and opens a spot for Murph.)
Sign Javy Vazquez
Sign Furcal short-term. Tejada starts at second.
DeJesus or Crisp for CF if Pagan goes (he shouldn’t go, BTW.)
Trade/Sign Uehara/Broxton/Lidge/whomever… Just don’t sign any reliever to a multi-year deal. Ever.
Check on Kelly Johnson. Sign if demands are reasonable. Valdespin/Havens have too many question marks to rely on and can be used to acquire other pieces.

Oh pissing blimey there's jam coming out of the walls!

by TWilliAM on Oct 25, 2011 3:36 PM EDT reply actions  

Sounds like Furcal wants to stay in St Louis

and the Cardinals want him back.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.

by Steve Schreiber on Oct 25, 2011 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why is it "time to move on" from Wright?

There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ

The 2011 Mets- Rock bottom: We haven't reached it yet

by Syler on Oct 25, 2011 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Because it's time for a (semi) re-build

He’s not good enough to build around and he’s going to be a free agent and want 17M+ a year.

Considering his injury woes and defensive issues (he’s a -10 to 15 defender now and that hurts his value) I don’t think it’s a good idea to keep him.

Oh pissing blimey there's jam coming out of the walls!

by TWilliAM on Oct 25, 2011 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

He's declined, but he's still a very good player

and do you honestly think Murph is good enough offensively or defensively to play third full time?

Also, it seems kind of odd that you let Reyes/Wright both go, and think the team has any chance of competing next year.

There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ

The 2011 Mets- Rock bottom: We haven't reached it yet

by Syler on Oct 26, 2011 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Moving Wright now would be selling low.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.

by Ogre39666 on Oct 26, 2011 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

Why are you assuming the Rockies would give up their most elite prospects for Dubs

Because they claimed him off waivers? What team wouldn’t claim a player who was one of the best in baseball a couple years ago, especially now that his “untouchable” status is dwindling.

And we don’t know if Murph is as good as 2010 Wright, let alone if he has a real bounceback, in which case he isn’t even close. Trading Wright could be a good move if his value was higher, possibly in the future. But at this point, swapping him because of exactly bad season for someone with exactly one good season makes little sense to me.

Mets, Jets, Islanders, Knicks.
GO RANGERS! Get Endy a ring!

by piazza62 on Oct 25, 2011 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why are you assuming the Rockies would give up their most elite prospects for Dubs

Because they would. I don’t think Pomeranz untouchable. Not at all. He has flaws as a player and he’s already been arrested. Colorado is not an organization that I expect will tolerate any personality issues.

Oh pissing blimey there's jam coming out of the walls!

by TWilliAM on Oct 25, 2011 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why are the Mets an organization that would?

Mets, Jets, Islanders, Knicks.
GO RANGERS! Get Endy a ring!

by piazza62 on Oct 26, 2011 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kudos for the thought put in.You're correct with the Mets not bringing their young players up to start the season

until after Jun 01 so they will not have a season vested.Think Harvey and Valdespin would really help but until the Jose’situation is resolved we are stuck in neutral.

by Putnan Prince on Oct 25, 2011 5:27 PM EDT reply actions  

There's no way Cubs would want Stinson and Dykstra for Marshall

Dykstra has very little power for 1b and was old for AA, while Stinson hardly strikes out anyone and really doesn’t have a plus pitch. A lot of decent ideas, but that was a reach. Also think you are giving up a lot for Grandal, who’s not actually that good behind the plate. He had 14 passed balls in 44 games at Hi A last year. I would not trade Familia at this point. I also wouldn’t be willing to give up on N-house yet, when he could be their future CF.

by David G on Oct 25, 2011 6:21 PM EDT reply actions  

You may very well be right that I'm offering too little for Marshall

As far as Grandal’s passed balls, he improved. That he had 14 in 44 games in Hi-A, and then 5 in 42 games in AA is a positive trend. You’ll need more evidence that he is bad behind the plate when every current scouting report that I’ve read says that he is quite good. His arm is average, but his game calling skills are apparently excellent.

If we can trade fror Grandal, while keeping Familia, then sending over Niewenhuis is a no-brainer. He simply does not have an elite ceiling. If Kirk ever becomes the Mets center fielder, it will be in a purely transitional capacity until someone better comes along.

__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden

by Russ on Oct 25, 2011 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Since when is Dykstra a top prospect? He's basically a non-prospect at this point.

Valdespin is not an elite prospect. I have no idea where you got that idea from. Stinson doesn’t look like anything more than a middle reliever. And Kenley Jansen for a bunch of crap? Really?

The only thing that caught my eye was the Grandal trade proposal. Not bad.

by Vega-0021 on Oct 25, 2011 7:27 PM EDT reply actions  

Why do so many people think the Reds will trade one of their catchers?

Excellent catchers are nigh impossible to come by neither of those two has proven a thing in the majors. This is almost the same as us trading one of Mejia, Familia, Harvey or Wheeler because we have too many good pitching prospects. The chance both Yasmani and Mesoraco turn out to be stars is about zero, the chance either does is miniscule. Why are the Reds gonna lower their chances of having an elite, cost controlled catcher? Better yet, why would they do it for Murphy, Nieuwenhuis and Gee? Maybe replace Gee with Familia and the deal gets done.

by Evan_S on Oct 25, 2011 9:13 PM EDT reply actions  

Well,

the thought process behind it is that you wanna get the most you can for one of them while their value is at its peak because only one will be able to start for the Reds since Votto is locked in at first base for a long time & it doesn’t appear that either Grandal or Mesoraco can play another position. I think the Reds will trade one of them at some point & that the Rays might be involved.

What's that about?

by Brian. on Oct 25, 2011 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

All the pieces fit

The Rays have surplus middle-of-the-rotation starting pitching. They need a catcher.
The Reds have surplus catching. They need middle-of-the-rotation starting pitching.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Oct 25, 2011 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Reds actually have depth at starting pitching

Cueto, Volquez, Bailey, Leake, Woods, Lecure and are grooming Chapman for the rotation. The need for them is a 3rd baseman and MI, especially if they buy out Phillips option.

by TheKid08 on Oct 26, 2011 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

I could see Grandal going to Tampa Bay

The Rays just might outbid everyone else.

__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden

by Russ on Nov 7, 2011 12:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think the trades are realistic.

Especially the one with the Dodgers…

Rica raka fire cracker! Sis boom ba! R.A. Dickey! R.A. Dickey! Raa! Raa! Raa!

by FreakSoprano on Oct 26, 2011 1:49 PM EDT reply actions  

Don't see the Reds or Dodgers doing it

nor do I like the second base competition you got going on over there. Otherwise, this plan, I like this plan

by METSMETSMETS on Oct 26, 2011 6:10 PM EDT reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Madmen_icon_small
Daniel Murphy and Empty Batting Averages
Gary_carter_small
fxcarden's Nightly Rant! - Vol. I, No. 2 (August, 2011)
Small
A projection of the rest of 2012 using two key stats
Gary_carter_small
fxcarden's Nightly Rant! - Vol. I, No. 1 (July, 2011)
159714144_040c6c1501_small
The Greatest Bison: Frank Grant and the Color Line

Recent FanPosts

Img_1435_small
This Week in Mets Quotes
Small
Game Replays
Small
Santana or Sabathia?
Small
Whats to be done with the 'Pen?
Small
What about Oswalt?
61atehunexl__sl500_aa300__small
This Week in Mets' Overreaction

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recommended FanShots

A WIN METHOD (TM) PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT

These guys are playing hardball. Ok, we must all mobilize, everybody... you do realize, this means WAR!

(Click here to embiggen)
At 5:30 PM EDT today Starting today at 5:00 PM EDT, witness one of the greatest renderings of visual sound effects ever!

UPDATE 1: My browser has crashed several times in the process from all the rants (FUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!) - as a result, there will instead be 4 or 5 separate installments of fxcarden's Nightly Rants! from 2011, with a similar pattern for the 2012 rants. Take my word for it, when I say that it's for the best. Here's the revised schedule:

Volume 1: 2011
No. 1: Today at 5:00 PM EDT
No. 2: Tomorrow
No. 3: Thursday
No. 4 and No. 5 (?) TBD

UPDATE 2: Vol. I, No. 1 (July, 2011) is now up!
beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeautiful colorization of Willie Mays' over-the-shoulder catch. Credit from Beyond the Box Score via Reddit. Embiggen at http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7071/7231074678_3faa94a82b_o.jpg
Frank Francisco is... The Most Interesting Closer In The World embiggen
2013 ALL-STAR GAME(TM) LOGO CONTEST

Major League Baseball has formally announced that Citi Field will be the site of the 2013 All-Star Game. (see video) In light of this, I have decided to launch an All-Star Game logo contest. To help get you started, I provided all of you with a sample All-Star Game logo. (click here to embiggen) If you wish to participate, please enter your submission with an image below, in the comments section. The contest ends on May 31st. I will choose a select number of finalists, and the community will vote on which of those logos is the best one.

Can you create a better logo than the sample logo provided? Then, give it a shot. Good luck to all participants!

Recent FanShots

Quick question regarding ISO
3 "Gap" HRs
Beacon makes it official: No Ottawa EL team in 2013
As Memorial Day Nears, a Single Image Continues to Haunt - New York Times
John Maine signs a minor league deal with the Yankees
Indians Reliever Joe Smith Was Forced To Retreat Because No One Summoned Him From The Bullpen
Marlins looking to trade for outfielder to replace Bonifacio
Ike will not be demoted
Mocking the MLB draft

+ New FanShot All FanShots >

Yahoo_full_count

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Madmen_icon_small
Daniel Murphy and Empty Batting Averages
Gary_carter_small
fxcarden's Nightly Rant! - Vol. I, No. 2 (August, 2011)
Small
A projection of the rest of 2012 using two key stats
Gary_carter_small
fxcarden's Nightly Rant! - Vol. I, No. 1 (July, 2011)
159714144_040c6c1501_small
The Greatest Bison: Frank Grant and the Color Line

Recent FanPosts

Img_1435_small
This Week in Mets Quotes
Small
Game Replays
Small
Santana or Sabathia?
Small
Whats to be done with the 'Pen?
Small
What about Oswalt?
61atehunexl__sl500_aa300__small
This Week in Mets' Overreaction

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


THE BIG GUY

Aa_avatar_small Eric Simon

THE INCREDIBLES

Blackfish2_small Alex Nelson

Endy_small Rob Castellano

Img_1262_small Matthew Artus

Kanye_pekka_small Sam Page

Best_infield_ever_small James Kannengieser

Metsstitches_small Eno Sarris

48900_1085732804_4466_n_small Chris McShane

Lg_rocker_ap_small Matthew Callan

Billy_and_daddy_4th_of_july_small Bill Petti

THE NEWS GURUS

Mrmet_small Steve Schreiber

3_small Stephen Schmidt

159714144_040c6c1501_small Pack Bringley

124967042_crop_340x234_small Jeffrey Paternostro