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2011 Postmortem: Catcher

2011 Postmortem: A position-by-position look back at the season with some preliminary thoughts on 2012. Plate appearances listed for each player represents overall plate appearances, not just those logged at the position in review. The stat wOBA is weighted on-base average -- read more about it here. It's like OPS but better, and on the same scale as on-base percentage. Cliff's Notes version: a wOBA below .300 is poor, .330 is about average, .400 is elite. fWAR is FanGraphs wins above replacement -- read more about it here.

Catcherpostmortem_medium

Josh Thole's MLB triple slasher pre-2011 was an encouraging .286/.357/.373 in 286 plate appearances, better than the National League average line for catchers. The patience and contact skills he demonstrated in the minor leagues translated to the bigs over a smallish sample size, leaving most fans bullish but not completely sold on young Thole's offensive skills. His defense seemed adequate as well, as he gunned down 42% of attempted baserunners (13 of 31) from 2009 to 2010. Compare to the league average rate of 29% over that period. Attempts to quantify catcher defense portrayed Thole favorably as well. The Mets may have had an average-or-better catcher on their hands for cheap, and a full season's worth of playing time would help determine his long-term role with the organization.

Thole entered 2011 as the primary catcher, with newcomer and leftist crusher Ron Paulino the planned sidekick. Due to an unfortunate 50 game suspension for PEDs rolled over from 2010, Paulino had to sit out the first 8 games of the season and missed several weeks on top of that due to anemia. Organizational filler/matinee idol Mike Nickeas was the Opening Day backup in Paulino's stead.

The opening months of the season were a struggle for Thole. He had just 6 extra base hits (all doubles) in 146 plate appearances by May 31st and his OPS was a feeble .575. Defensive miscues were numerous and memorable. Unsurprisingly, his playing time slightly decreased when Paulino returned and went 5-for-7 in his first start of the season, the Osama bin Laden game on May 1st. Paulino continued to hit and boasted a batting average heavy .830 OPS by the end of June. But from June onward, the catchers' performances at the plate reversed.

Star-divide

Thole improved his power numbers over the final four months, hitting 3 home runs and 11 doubles while sporting a .759 OPS. The shoddy defense continued though, and he finished with a poor 21% caught stealing rate and led the league in passed balls with 16. It's worth noting that catching R.A. Dickey's divine knuckleballs is no easy task for any mortal. Meanwhile, Paulino descended into the Henry Blanco Second Half Of Suck, posting a .524 OPS from July through September. Also, reports indicated that the club wasn't happy with Paulino's game preparation. Nickeas didn't hit at all and likely never will, but he earned praise for his defense from Mets coaches. As a group, Mets catchers were well below average in 2011.

There is talk that the Mets might move on from Paulino and feature a Thole/Nickeas tandem in 2012. Thole deserves a spot on the team in some capacity going forward, but if Thole/Nickeas is indeed the plan for next season, then not much improvement from the catcher position is to be expected. This is just early speculation though, and enhancing the backstop situation should be a goal for the near future.

Unfortunately, the Mets don't have other viable internal options. Maybe Dusty Ryan? As for outside players to target, I'll stick with my annual tradition of advocating a trade for Braves backup David Ross. He's the best reserve catcher in baseball and with the Braves reeling from their September collapse maybe they're looking to shed some players. If not Ross, then free agents Ramon Castro, Ramon Hernandez and Jose Molina are worth a look.

Desired 2012 starting catcher: David Ross

Projected 2012 starting catcher: Josh Thole

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Keep Paulino and keep the platoon going.

Thole still has issues with lefties, Paulino has issues with righties. It’s a perfect fit, except both suck at catching the ball.

Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.

by garik16 on Oct 5, 2011 12:28 PM EDT reply actions  

NOOOOOOOOOO

Paulino is not good when he’s not using steroids. Get rid of him.

by Mike Clemente on Oct 5, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not a fan of Paulino either,

especially considering his role, playing time, likely salary, and our total financial picture, but there aren’t too many better options out there.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Oct 5, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

We need a solid right handed bat (walks, decent pop) with excellent defense

There’s gotta be an old timer that fits that mold. I’d even take blanco again over him.

by Mike Clemente on Oct 5, 2011 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Paulino has no power, doesn't get on base, and is abysmal against righties

Him being moderately effective against lefties doesn’t make up for that

There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ

The 2011 Mets- Rock bottom: We haven't reached it yet

by Syler on Oct 5, 2011 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

If it's a true platoon situation based on handedness,

it doesn’t matter what his numbers against righties is.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Oct 5, 2011 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Except Terry Collins isn't going to play it based strictly on handedness, so it's moot.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.

by Steve Schreiber on Oct 5, 2011 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is that really such an "advanced" thing that '"dumb" managers don't comprehend?

He does it with pitchers, calling in Byrdak and Herrera to face lefties, so he clearly must understand platoon splits and such…

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Oct 5, 2011 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Apparently it is...

Paulino had 90 at bats against lefties, 138 against righties.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.

by Steve Schreiber on Oct 5, 2011 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not just Pelf's.

When he was on his hot streak early, Collins made him Dickey’s ‘personal catcher’ for three-four-five starts because Thole was racking up so many passed balls. Turned out Paulino couldn’t catch him, either, and that eventually came to an end.

by Curtis3331 on Oct 6, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I say we trade for Ross

If McCann had 0 hits in the final game of the season, I say we try to convince Wren that he SUX and trade for him too.

by Shevshevy on Oct 5, 2011 1:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Jose Molina makes sense as a back up

I’m a big David Ross fan, but the Mets have no shot at getting him from the Braves. Nickeas is fine as the third catcher but I have no interest in seeing him back up Thole. I dunno maybe get the Rockies to trade Iannetta for Pelf or Gee? I highly doubt they’d do that.

by graves9 on Oct 5, 2011 1:20 PM EDT reply actions  

Ianetta is signed for a favorable team deal, for cheap

Their back-up prospect, Pacheco, however, can be had.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Oct 5, 2011 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pacheco

I don’t know that the bat will really play, his MiLB numbers have been inflated by a bunch of hitter’s leagues and he didn’t exactly rake in hitter’s paradise Colorado Springs this year. Also, he’s probably just as bad defensively as Thole, as he’s also a conversion project.

The guy I would target is Ryan Hanigan. The Reds are probably going to start Mesoraco next year, and the Hanigan is decent behind the plate and hits lefties well.

the artist formerly known as TeufelCat
@jeffpaternostro

by Jeffrey Paternostro on Oct 5, 2011 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Scouting reports I've read tab his defense as steadily improving and unimpressive, though not an outright liability

As for his offense, as compared to the league average in the leagues he played in from 2009-2011

Single A-Ashville (Sally): .322 /.379/ .492
2009 Ashville Tourists averages: .269/.329/.397
2009 South Atlantic League averages: .254/.323/.368

High A-Modesto (California): .321/.407/.444
2010 Modesto Nuts averages: .270/.342/.402
2010 California League averages: .275/.344/.423

Double A-Tulsa (Texas League): .333/.396/.436
2011 Tulsa Drillers averages: .256/.329/.389
2010 Texas League averages: .260/.334/.387

Triple A- Colorado Springs (Pacific Coast League): .278/.343/.377
2011 Colorado Springs Sky Sox averages: .305/.366/.489
2011 Pacific Coast League averages: .286/.359/.448

At all levels except AAA, he’s hit well above the average of both his team, and of his league- and, the fact that he didn’t outperform either in AAA is a bit curious, since it’s the most hitter friendly of all of them.

But, regardless, the difference between him and Hanigan (31) is availability. If they’re going to be starting Mesoraco next season, it’s highly unlikely they bring back Ramon Hernandez, meaning Hanigan will be their secondary catcher- and, an erstwhile catcher for them he has been. The Rockies, they have Iannetta (28) as their primary catcher, and will have him at a team-friendly rate for a few more years. Their back-up to him, Eliezer Alfonzo (32), is making the minimum and has good numbers in the limited ABs he gets. Then, they have Wilin Rosario (22), one of their top prospects, who got a cup of coffee, and will be taking over catcher duties when Iannetta’s contract expires. Pacheco (25) is the odd man out- especially since the Rockies are going to try to use him primarily as a corner infield utility guy. The Mets have a guy or two laying around that doesn’t exactly fit into any future plans the club has (that might be better hitters than Pacheco, or more versatile, but lack the ability to play catcher outside of horrible emergencies gone wrong) can be dangled in front of the Rockies to obtain him.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Oct 5, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm pretty sure he'll hit in the majors.

His final stats don’t look great, but he himself did look good at the plate, he also spent a couple games in the middle of the order when Tulo/Gonzalez were hurt. He’s got a pretty good handle of the strike zone and will hit for more power than Thole. I didn’t see him play catcher but he looked decent at 1B/2B/3B, also played shortstop in college (he was also the punt returner on the football team for context.)

I’m also pretty sure he’d be a better backup option than Turner. But really, how great would it be to have a guy who can play more than just catcher? The Rockies love him though, I don’t think they’ll just give him away.

Kicking knowledge in the face.

by BlackOps on Oct 5, 2011 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gah

I can’t find any evidence he was the punt returner for UNM. Why would the Rockies’ announcers say that…?

Kicking knowledge in the face.

by BlackOps on Oct 5, 2011 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Easily the worst position spot for the Mets this year

Thole looked and measured decidedly mediocre and Paulino was pretty much useless outside of occasionally smashing lefties. I would love to see this addressed out-of-system this offseason, but as with everything else, it’s all predicated on what happens with Jose and what they do to the pen. If C ends up being the only weak link in the ‘12 season I’d be OK with that.

The artful muppet formerly known as KrmtDfrog.
Please read my sardonic wit and over-blown sense of self over at headkicklegend.com

by Cory Braiterman on Oct 5, 2011 2:41 PM EDT reply actions  

Actually i think LF was the worst for the Mets

and even with two spots in the lineup barely producing at all, the Mets were still 5th in the NL in total wOBA.

A deadline has a wonderful way of concentrating the mind.-Professor James Moriarty
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.- Former Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

by Blame-everyone-else on Oct 5, 2011 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

LF was better than CF this year

So no

El Esta Gone!
7/28/2011...We will never forget.

by RudyTerrasasWarRoom on Oct 5, 2011 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I demand proof.

"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."

by BobbyV_Incognito on Oct 5, 2011 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bay > Pagan

2011 Season

El Esta Gone!
7/28/2011...We will never forget.

by RudyTerrasasWarRoom on Oct 5, 2011 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nope.

Bay = 0.7 fWAR.
Pagan = 0.9 fWAR.

"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."

by BobbyV_Incognito on Oct 5, 2011 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

Damn, so close

Long live Bay!

El Esta Gone!
7/28/2011...We will never forget.

by RudyTerrasasWarRoom on Oct 5, 2011 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes.

Bay = 0.6 rWAR.
Pagan = 0.2 rWAR.

El Esta Gone!
7/28/2011...We will never forget.

by RudyTerrasasWarRoom on Oct 5, 2011 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

rWAR? Not familiar with it.

I’ve only seen WAR calculations from BBRef and FG.

"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."

by BobbyV_Incognito on Oct 5, 2011 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's baseball-ref

Just messing, you were right with the salary difference, argument over, you’re victory

El Esta Gone!
7/28/2011...We will never forget.

by RudyTerrasasWarRoom on Oct 5, 2011 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought that was referred to as bWAR.

"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."

by BobbyV_Incognito on Oct 5, 2011 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I always called it bbWAR, but apparently, it's more commonly rWAR

r for Reference.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Oct 5, 2011 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

rWAR= Baseball Reference

That said, Baseball Reference WAR utilizes Total Zone, which is generally regarded as an inferior defensive tool as compared to UZR, which Fangraphs uses for defense (Fangraphs’ WAR calculation also further breaks down the running game). So, Fangraphs WAR (fWAR) is better than Baseball-Reference (rWAR).

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Oct 5, 2011 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's close enough

To see that both are just awful

El Esta Gone!
7/28/2011...We will never forget.

by RudyTerrasasWarRoom on Oct 5, 2011 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Except Pagan's was much better the previous two seasons,

so this one could just be an outlier, whereas Bay’s had two awful seasons in a row, and is older.

"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."

by BobbyV_Incognito on Oct 5, 2011 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Bay wOBA = .315

Pagan wOBA = .313

El Esta Gone!
7/28/2011...We will never forget.

by RudyTerrasasWarRoom on Oct 5, 2011 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow, 2 whole points.

Yeah, that’s a huge difference. Even by that measure, Pagan’s still more valuable, since he’s not being paid $16 million a year.

"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."

by BobbyV_Incognito on Oct 5, 2011 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bay played a very good defense at least

Which is one positive Thole does not have.

The artful muppet formerly known as KrmtDfrog.
Please read my sardonic wit and over-blown sense of self over at headkicklegend.com

by Cory Braiterman on Oct 5, 2011 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can haz Ryan Doumit?

There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ

The 2011 Mets- Rock bottom: We haven't reached it yet

by Syler on Oct 5, 2011 3:08 PM EDT reply actions  

He can hit

But he can’t stay healthy and can’t really play the position he’s supposed to play. Sounds like a Met.

by Philip Larkin on Oct 5, 2011 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Worst Catcher in baseballl

Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.

by garik16 on Oct 6, 2011 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

(c) Grission, Inc. in the top right corner.

Priceless.

Now, kids, being eaten by a crocodile is just like going to sleep; in giant blender.

by meigs1414 on Oct 5, 2011 3:23 PM EDT reply actions  

Ramon Hernandez

What kind of deal is he looking for? He seems like the best FA option.

by Philip Larkin on Oct 5, 2011 4:36 PM EDT reply actions  

In terms of money, a few million and a starting gig, most likely

He’s older, so I don’t know what he expects in terms of contractual length, but I’d be surprised if anyone gives him more than a year, maybe with a vesting or club option for a second year.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Oct 5, 2011 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe they'll be someone in Rule V?

Doubtful of course, but look at what a smashing success Emaus was…for the Colorado Springs SkySox.

by David G on Oct 5, 2011 5:47 PM EDT reply actions  

The Mets may not draft in Rule V this year

There are too many Mets farm hands that are now Rule V eligible and need to be protected.

__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden

by Russ on Oct 6, 2011 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

Doesn't mean we won't take part in the draft.

Also I’d debate there are “too many farmhands” We’ll probably leave a spot off of the 40.

Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.

by garik16 on Oct 6, 2011 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

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