Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Ryder Hesjedal Wins Giro d'Italia

The Case for Bobby V

The Red Sox' offseason has been a turbulent one, as befits a team that committed one of the worst regular season collapses in baseball history. (Nearly as bad as...well, never mind.) Their curiously torturous managerial search is the latest example. You'd think there'd be no shortage of candidates for one of the game's most high profile (and most high paying) jobs, and yet somehow the hunt has dragged on longer than the Orioles' quest for a GM. The team's rumored top pick, the immortal Dale Sveum, joined old boss Theo Epstein in Chicago, thus throwing things into further chaos and hysteria.

The latest wrinkle has Boston GM Ben Cherington interviewing Bobby Valentine. Whether Valentine had always been a candidate or is only now being considered out of desperation is unclear. The truth is further muddied by rumors that Red Sox ownership has already made up its mind about hiring Valentine and is simply giving Cherington a thin but face-saving illusion of choice in the matter.

All of these Machiavellian schemes have overshadowed the fact that Valentine may finally have a major league job again, something he has seemingly craved since he was kicked to the curb by the Mets after the disastrous 2002 season. My own thoroughly informal polling of BoSox fans reveals virtually no enthusiasm for this possibility. At best, there is a sense of resignation or acceptance. Most have varying shades of objection, from "I'm not sure about this guy" to "HELL NO."

As an unapologetic fan of Mr. Valentine, I am here to assuage the fears of Red Sox Nation. I'm of the opinion that much of his negative reputation is just as much narrative as it is reality. He is not a man without faults, but I sincerely hope you get to embrace them.

Star-divide

Bobby Valentine's last stateside gig is usually recalled for its turbulence. A USA Today article on his Red Sox candidacy takes all of three sentences to describe him as "confrontational" and say he "rubbed some of his players the wrong way." It's important to remember that he was just one element of a chaotic period in Mets history (though most periods of Mets history are marked by some chaos or another).

When Valentine took over the Mets late in the 1996 season, they were still trying to recover from The Worst Team Money Could By years, and from the flaming wreckage that was Generation K. Less than a year after he took the job, Steve Phillips ascended to the GM seat. His damn-the-torpedoes approach to roster construction wasn't so much team building as it was a very expensive game of Jenga, and it imbued the Mets with a win-now-or-else attitude that would define them (mostly for the worse) for the next decade. Oh, and ownership was feuding with itself, as Fred Wilpon and Nelson Doubleday sniped at each other and struggled to determine the team's direction.

And yet somehow, Valentine is the one who gets the lion's share of the "craziness" of this era. Steve Phillips is probably more responsible than anyone else for the mess the Mets became post-2000. His serial zipper issues are the clear mark of a not-very-good human being, as far as I'm concerned, and far worse than anything Valentine has every done. Despite all this, Valentine remains much less welcome in Queens than Phillips. Just this past year, when SNY produced a special about Ralph Kiner, Phillips was one of many ex-Mets interviewed for the event; Valentine was nowhere to be seen.

The only conclusion I can come to is the differences in how each man handled the press. Phillips played them like a fiddle. He was legendary for the treatment he lavished on writers, from creature comforts to juicy gossip. Valentine? Not so much.

Bobby Valentine was behind the eight ball with the press in New York even before he started. He had a rep from his years in Texas as being combative with reporters, umpires, and opposing players--an entirely deserved rep, to be fair. His tendency to squawk from the highest perch of the dugout earned him the nickname Top Step, which was not meant to be a compliment. He had little collateral or good will on which to draw when he arrived in New York, and he quickly spent most of it with his preternatural ability to aggravate those who covered the Mets.

He'd been a baseball lifer, and yet the fact that Valentine managed a year in Japan (a successful but doomed campaign where he was constantly undermined by the front office) struck some as elitist, effete. His predecessor, Dallas Green, was considered an uncompromising straight shooter. In comparison, Valentine was seen as slick and sophisticated, in the worst sense of the word. In the Times, Harvey Araton summed up the prevailing mood about his arrival in Queens thusly:

With his neatly combed salt-and-pepper hair, his trim physique and his engaging smile, Valentine will come across better to Sound Bite America. He will reach out to those tarnished young pitchers, regale them with stories of the Japanese leagues, instruct them what to watch out for at the sushi bar.

Valentine did not help himself with the few members of the press who were willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. His counterpart in the Bronx, Joe Torre, was adept at giving reporters what they wanted and protecting his players. Valentine pretty much did the exact opposite. If he had an issue with a player, he was not shy about airing it in public, as he did with Todd Hundley over his extracurricular activities. If he found a beat writer's question stupid, he was very bad at hiding his feelings. Worst of all, he lacked the filter between brain and mouth necessary for the modern celebrity. "Sometimes I wish I had the 'no comment' in me," he once lamented.

There's a saying about not offending people who buy ink by the barrelful, and it explains why we don't often hear about Valentine's accomplishments. He juggled his lineup on an almost daily basis to account for opponent, hot streaks, and hunches, and somehow he played his cards right more often than not. For two years--1999 and 2000--he juggled a patchwork outfield and managed to wring maximum value out of it. Though he had little patience for easily bruised egos, he was skilled at getting the most out of rookies and journeymen; the more marginalized the player was, the better they seemed to play for him (think Benny Agbayani). He was one of very few major league skippers who could engage Bobby Cox move for move in a managerial chess match.

Valentine remains the only manager in franchise history to guide the Mets to consecutive playoff appearances. Though neither team won it all, both played--at various times and to varying degrees--over their respective heads, while also taking part in some of the most amazing, heart-stopping, come-from-behind thrillers imaginable. If you want to say Valentine's influence over any of this was minimal, that's your prerogative. I personally feel a manager's role can be overstated, but I don't think it's fair to say he had nothing to do with it, either.

Valentine's infamous "disguise incident" is an emblem of his career, though not in the way most people think. It is constantly pointed to as an example of unprofessionalism and clownery. But to those who recall the context of the incident, it means something else entirely.

It occurred just after the low ebb of the 1999 season, with the Mets having finally extricated themselves from a disastrous losing streak that briefly plunged them below .500. In the middle of the Subway Series, the Mets' front office sent a warning shot across his bow by firing his three most trusted coaches. They then forced him to sit through a sham press conference, during which Phillips insisted that Valentine was not being undermined and everyone still believed in him and everything was sunshine and lollipops.

When Valentine was finally allowed to speak, he told reporters that his team was good enough to win 40 of its next 55 games. And if they didn't, he should be fired. Reporters all but made cuckoo sounds. Thereafter, every minute detail of every game became a small referendum on Valentine's ability to manage, his future calculated on an at-bat-to-at-bat basis.

Flash forward a few days later. The Mets had won three games in a row and were attempting to complete a sweep of the Blue Jays at Shea Stadium. An unexpected rally in the bottom of the ninth against David "Boomer" Wells sent the game lurching into listless extras. In the top of the twelfth, Randy Marsh called interference on catcher Mike Piazza. Valentine was enraged by the call and expressed those feelings in terms that got him tossed from the game.

Moments after Valentine was given an early exit, the Fox Sports cameras spied a lurker in the Mets dugout. Actually, the man was not in the dugout per se. The culprit was careful to make this important distinction later--mostly in a vain attempt to forestall an inevitable suspension and fine. He stood on the last step that connected the dugout to the clubhouse tunnel. On his head, a black baseball cap. Not a Mets hat, but one with an indecipherable logo. He wore a Mets t-shirt, and a cheap looking one at that, the kind of thing enterprising souls sold in the Shea Stadium parking lot to free-spending tailgaters. His eyes were obscured by a large pair of aviator sunglasses, almost Unabomber-esque. Below his nose, a laughably fake mustache painted on with eye-black.

It is the kind of "disguise" a person would wear to stand out rather than go unnoticed. Because that is exactly what Valentine wanted. In the midst of this ridiculous game, where he was tossed for arguing a ridiculous call, amid a similarly ridiculous stretch of baseball where his competence was judged on a ridiculously minute level, Valentine decided to out-ridiculous all of it.

"It was a mistake," he admitted later, "but for a moment in the emotions of a group of tight people, it was a break, and for me too."

The crime he committed, one for which some will never forgive him, was to point out that that maybe baseball didn't warrant life-and-death seriousness, or angry screeds. Maybe it could have done with a few more laughs. Isn't this is supposed to be fun? he said without speaking a word. Valentine's sin was to remind us that this was, after all, a game. If there's one place in America where this notion is more reviled than New York, it's Boston. Which is precisely why it could use such an attitude.

Please hear my plea, Red Sox fans. If Bobby V does in fact manage your team, I promise you it will be great. I'm not saying a World Series or even a playoff berth is in the cards. I am simply saying you are in for a buffet of awesomeness. And if nothing else, imagine what kind of conniptions this man could cause for Dan Shaughnessy.

Comment 40 comments  |  2 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Great read

Now I want Bobby V back. I loved his antics and I miss him as our manager. I was disheartened the second he was fired. To tell you the truth, never really got over it either. We could use him, especially with the projected roster for next year. He does always seem to get the most out of players.

by CCE718 on Nov 22, 2011 10:40 AM EST reply actions  

Agree that Bobby V would be a great hire

but this treatment focuses too much on the already overstated “high jinx” and too little on the man’s shrewdness.

Let’s talk some more about that 2000 starting outfield that made it to the World Series. Timo Perez, Jay Payton, and Benny… are you kidding me? A rotation with Bobby Jones and Glendon Rusch?

However, if you ARE going to talk about the Bobby V’s lovable quirks, I am convinced he went out of his way to pitch Bobby M. Jones in games where Bobby J. Jones started, strictly for entertainment purposes.

by saberkeith on Nov 22, 2011 11:04 AM EST reply actions  

The starting lineup throughout the postseason was hilarious

Timo Perez, Fonzie, Piazza, Ventura, Zeile, Benny, Payton, Mike Bordick and pitcher. They had to have someone fill in for Derek Bell!

Still Amazin'.
Jose Reyes is a MET in 2012.

by piazza62 on Nov 22, 2011 4:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Anyone else wish that was his middle finger he was holding up in that picture?

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 22, 2011 11:40 AM EST reply actions  

I had to check to make sure it wasn't.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place

by Ogre39666 on Nov 22, 2011 6:42 PM EST up reply actions  

The 'stasch in Fenway

Mets, Jets, Devils, United Football League

by BlueChill on Nov 22, 2011 11:43 AM EST reply actions  

i just look forward

to the eventual shitstorm. Bobby and the Boston media… Can’t wait for the first awful pun that calls him Bobby Volatile or some such.

The artful muppet formerly known as KrmtDfrog.
Please read my sardonic wit and over-blown sense of self over at headkicklegend.com

by Cory Braiterman on Nov 22, 2011 12:38 PM EST reply actions  

I, for one, cannot wait for the epic chess matches between Bobby and Joe Maddon.

That’s going to be some crazy gamesmanship there.

"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."

by BobbyV_Incognito on Nov 22, 2011 10:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Hell of a lot better than any Torre-Little matchup

"Amazing strength, amazing power - he can grind the dust out of the bat. He will be great, super even wonderful. Now, if he can only learn to catch a fly ball."
-Casey Stengel on Lucas Duda

by piazza62 on Nov 22, 2011 10:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Real Glasses vs Fake Glasses

Mets, Jets, Devils, United Football League

by BlueChill on Nov 22, 2011 11:05 PM EST up reply actions  

I love V

As a lifelong Met fan I loved V and would assassinate Collins if V were the choice to return. Collins is getting all kinds of credit for keeping the Mets competitive last season when in reality they were competitive despite his inept decisions.

Collins shouldn’t be managing a little league team and those who think he’s great just reveal their lack of knowledge regarding the vital in game decisions that he regularly flubbed. There were times when my jaw would just drop wondering what he was thinking.

V took a team of mostly average players and had them playing at all star levels. I don’t understand why anyone would balk at getting V. The Sox fans don’t know how good they’d have it.

Unfortunately we have the Wilpons in control of Met destiny and they will continue their track record of mismanagement while doing little gimmicky things to keep the fans coming out. They seem happy to have a mediocre team as long as as money keeps rolling in. Collins is a dirt cheap option that has many fans fooled which is exactly what the Wilpons want.

by McMan on Nov 22, 2011 1:09 PM EST reply actions  

You know, I tried to come up with a witty response to this comment

and I just couldn’t. It’s just so dumb it’s beyond belief.

Still Amazin'.
Jose Reyes is a MET in 2012.

by piazza62 on Nov 22, 2011 4:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Which part of it was dumb?

I think it was right on the money, except for the assassinating Collins stuff.

by BrockRocks on Nov 24, 2011 12:45 PM EST up reply actions  

If you really care about Bobby V...
Valentine’s sin was to remind us that this was, after all, a game. If there’s one place in America where this notion is more reviled than New York, it’s Boston.

… why would you wish Boston on him. They hate “It’s just a game!” types on principle.

"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin

by dcrockett17 on Nov 22, 2011 3:43 PM EST reply actions  

If Bobby wants to go...

… then we all should be happy for him if he gets the gig. Still, Boston does not deserve him (or anything good, for that matter). The first time I see him wearing that ugly Red Sox garb, a little piece of me will die.

By the way, I just thought of a joke: Why are Boston’s socks red? Because their vaginas are bleeding!

by chin8tao on Nov 23, 2011 8:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Is there a non-Bobby Valentine source for that?

"I only wanted a few things out of life -- a wife, children, to play baseball and to hunt deer." - Turk Wendell

by Rey-O on Nov 22, 2011 6:55 PM EST up reply actions  

His restaurant said that, so that must be true!

In lobby for: Jaime Cevallos, Zack Lutz, orange unis and Rickroll as the 7th inning song.
The Unwritten Rules of AA

by Michkin on Nov 22, 2011 6:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Read it on the internet

(which he also invented, by the way)

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 22, 2011 8:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh please...

everybody knows that R.A. Dickey invented the internet, apple pie, world peace and the Thighmaster.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.

by Steve Schreiber on Nov 22, 2011 10:53 PM EST up reply actions  

So he got three out of four right.

Now, kids, being eaten by a crocodile is just like going to sleep; in giant blender.

by meigs1414 on Nov 23, 2011 10:08 AM EST up reply actions  

what's wrong with thighmaster?

"I only wanted a few things out of life -- a wife, children, to play baseball and to hunt deer." - Turk Wendell

by Rey-O on Nov 23, 2011 8:28 PM EST up reply actions  

She was a Master-breaker?

It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.

by MookieTheCat on Nov 26, 2011 6:23 AM EST up reply actions  

Reading this it sounds like he was similar to John Tortarella except much better better in-game and with X's and O's than Torts.

What’s weird is that I don’t remember him like that.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place

by Ogre39666 on Nov 22, 2011 6:44 PM EST reply actions  

Other ways that don't relate to strategy perhaps?... Did you read the post?

What did the article say about Valentine?
It said that he was seen as confrontational with the media and often quick to jump into an argument. That’s Torts to a T. He also has been accused of having favorites.
I don’t remember the confrontational part of Valentine.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place

by Ogre39666 on Nov 22, 2011 11:35 PM EST up reply actions  

The Wharton speech.

What's the score, boys?
What did Bugs Bunny do?
What's with the Carrot League baseball today?

by StorkFan on Nov 24, 2011 9:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Love Valentine.

Phillips can die in a fire.

Let's go have a beer, Doc.

Proud inventor of the "Oh Brett" meme.

by Crazy Nyce Dave on Nov 23, 2011 7:42 PM EST reply actions  

He wasn't chubby enough for him

Only bony and angular. So not Phillips’ type.

It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.

by MookieTheCat on Nov 26, 2011 6:24 AM EST up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Madmen_icon_small
Daniel Murphy and Empty Batting Averages
Gary_carter_small
fxcarden's Nightly Rant! - Vol. I, No. 2 (August, 2011)
Small
A projection of the rest of 2012 using two key stats
Gary_carter_small
fxcarden's Nightly Rant! - Vol. I, No. 1 (July, 2011)
159714144_040c6c1501_small
The Greatest Bison: Frank Grant and the Color Line

Recent FanPosts

Img_1435_small
This Week in Mets Quotes
Small
Game Replays
Small
Santana or Sabathia?
Small
Whats to be done with the 'Pen?
Small
What about Oswalt?
61atehunexl__sl500_aa300__small
This Week in Mets' Overreaction

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recommended FanShots

A WIN METHOD (TM) PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT

These guys are playing hardball. Ok, we must all mobilize, everybody... you do realize, this means WAR!

(Click here to embiggen)
At 5:30 PM EDT today Starting today at 5:00 PM EDT, witness one of the greatest renderings of visual sound effects ever!

UPDATE 1: My browser has crashed several times in the process from all the rants (FUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!) - as a result, there will instead be 4 or 5 separate installments of fxcarden's Nightly Rants! from 2011, with a similar pattern for the 2012 rants. Take my word for it, when I say that it's for the best. Here's the revised schedule:

Volume 1: 2011
No. 1: Today at 5:00 PM EDT
No. 2: Tomorrow
No. 3: Thursday
No. 4 and No. 5 (?) TBD

UPDATE 2: Vol. I, No. 1 (July, 2011) is now up!
beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeautiful colorization of Willie Mays' over-the-shoulder catch. Credit from Beyond the Box Score via Reddit. Embiggen at http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7071/7231074678_3faa94a82b_o.jpg
Frank Francisco is... The Most Interesting Closer In The World embiggen
2013 ALL-STAR GAME(TM) LOGO CONTEST

Major League Baseball has formally announced that Citi Field will be the site of the 2013 All-Star Game. (see video) In light of this, I have decided to launch an All-Star Game logo contest. To help get you started, I provided all of you with a sample All-Star Game logo. (click here to embiggen) If you wish to participate, please enter your submission with an image below, in the comments section. The contest ends on May 31st. I will choose a select number of finalists, and the community will vote on which of those logos is the best one.

Can you create a better logo than the sample logo provided? Then, give it a shot. Good luck to all participants!

Recent FanShots

Quick question regarding ISO
3 "Gap" HRs
Beacon makes it official: No Ottawa EL team in 2013
As Memorial Day Nears, a Single Image Continues to Haunt - New York Times
John Maine signs a minor league deal with the Yankees
Indians Reliever Joe Smith Was Forced To Retreat Because No One Summoned Him From The Bullpen
Marlins looking to trade for outfielder to replace Bonifacio
Ike will not be demoted
Mocking the MLB draft

+ New FanShot All FanShots >

Yahoo_full_count

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Madmen_icon_small
Daniel Murphy and Empty Batting Averages
Gary_carter_small
fxcarden's Nightly Rant! - Vol. I, No. 2 (August, 2011)
Small
A projection of the rest of 2012 using two key stats
Gary_carter_small
fxcarden's Nightly Rant! - Vol. I, No. 1 (July, 2011)
159714144_040c6c1501_small
The Greatest Bison: Frank Grant and the Color Line

Recent FanPosts

Img_1435_small
This Week in Mets Quotes
Small
Game Replays
Small
Santana or Sabathia?
Small
Whats to be done with the 'Pen?
Small
What about Oswalt?
61atehunexl__sl500_aa300__small
This Week in Mets' Overreaction

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


THE BIG GUY

Aa_avatar_small Eric Simon

THE INCREDIBLES

Blackfish2_small Alex Nelson

Endy_small Rob Castellano

Img_1262_small Matthew Artus

Kanye_pekka_small Sam Page

Best_infield_ever_small James Kannengieser

Metsstitches_small Eno Sarris

48900_1085732804_4466_n_small Chris McShane

Lg_rocker_ap_small Matthew Callan

Billy_and_daddy_4th_of_july_small Bill Petti

THE NEWS GURUS

Mrmet_small Steve Schreiber

3_small Stephen Schmidt

159714144_040c6c1501_small Pack Bringley

124967042_crop_340x234_small Jeffrey Paternostro