How about signing CF Yoenis Cespedes?
by Steve OnceBrooklynNowMets on Nov 7, 2011 10:27 AM EST
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PrintAdam Rubin and others expect the Mets to non-tender CF Angel Pagan and also to fail to sign Jose Reyes. How about using some money to sign Cuban defector and center fielder Yoenis Cespedes, who should be available this month? He's 26 years old and is fast and strong. Just what we need! He is expected to get a contract that's similar to that given to Aroldis Chapman, according to both Kevin Goldstein and Jeff Passan (i.e, about $30 million).
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More expensive then Pagan and other options
On the market.
Also this should be a FanShot
Rey-sign Rey-ass
Logic Your Sense Makes None.
by JoeBighead on Nov 7, 2011 10:42 AM EST reply actions 5 recs
Will he really be more expensive than Pagan?
Goldstein talks about a deal similar to the Aroldis Chapman 6/$30.25m contract. That averages about $5m/year which if you step at $4m-$4m-$5m-$5m-$6m$6.25m would likely be cheaper than Pagan in 2012.
I don’t know enough about the guy to know if he’s a real value but those are pretty reasonable financial terms if the guy has breakout potential. Plus, assuming the club doesn’t pony up for Reyes, he would likely generate more fan buzz than a Peter Bourjos. I’m not a big guy for buzz BUT if it comes in a 25 year old with projectable plus tools locked up for 5-6 years at 1/3 the cost of Jose . . . well seems to me that’s the type of calculated gamble with upside that a team on a budget could afford to take.
How is he more expensive than Pagan?
5 mil/year vs. 5 mil/year.
by SFloridaMetsFan on Nov 7, 2011 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
5 million/1 year
is much less expensive than 30 mil/5-6 years. Yeah, they are roughly the same per, but a 1 year contract forgives easier than a 6 year one, when it comes to injury and other things such as the possibility of this guy being a bust, headcase, or older than he says he is.
Rey-sign Rey-ass
Logic Your Sense Makes None.
Must be signed
For the awesome name alone.
You lost me at non-tendering Pagan
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 7, 2011 12:47 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
I'd actually be good with this
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
Non-tendering Pagan
The expectation by many is that Pagan will be non-tendered. That would give the Mets another $5-6 million to spend on Cespedes.
by Steve OnceBrooklynNowMets on Nov 7, 2011 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
I think that the Mets will re-sign Pagan
If Cespedes is signed, Pagan could be traded.
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
Yeah, I think this is more likely.
I don’t see them outright non-tendering Angel. If he’s not on the team, he’ll be dealt.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Nov 7, 2011 6:10 PM EST up reply actions
I'm sure Cespedes would spend time in the minors
The team that signs him isn’t going to expect him immediately be a starting center fielder in the big leagues. So we’d still need a CF for 2012 anyway.
well then many people are not thinking clearly
there is no reason to non-tender him, he still has value to some club – especially us for now
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
by astromets on Nov 7, 2011 5:02 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
This, this, this
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 7, 2011 5:17 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
we should sign him based on the video of him circulating the 'net
His at-bat music would then be “Sailing” by Christopher Cross.
Mark Cuban for owner! Save us from the Wilpons!
Well, we do need a long term CF
and considering he’s highly touted, why the hell not?
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2011 Mets- Rock bottom: We haven't reached it yet
That's what I'm thinking
It seems that his agent wants a five or six year deal worth about $30 million. That comes out to $5-6 million/year. Not cheap, but not franchise crippling if he doesn’t work out.
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
Yup and if he turns into a star?
You’ve got a star level center fielder locked up for 5-6 years at 5 million a year. For that little money, there’s almost no risk, as long as he’s not a complete and total failure (like it’s all hype and he literally can’t hit and can’t field and is actually 45 years old).
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Nov 7, 2011 6:12 PM EST up reply actions
Unfortunately that is a very valid concern
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
Even if he just turns out to be a 4th OF
it will be worth it as long as he averages at least 1.5 fWAR/year.
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
I like this
If they can’t resign Reyes, Cespedes could be a nice, relatively low-cost gamble. If they can resign Reyes, I assume they will not have the flexibility to add in Cespedes as well.
I think there is a fair question of “which is higher risk”: Cespedes at 5/30, or Reyes at 6/110? Cespedes at 5/30 is certainly less likely to be crippling to the team.
If they do sign him, expect a healthy dose of jokes from me about "The Human Cespede"!
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
As long as he doesn't play
Like a human cesspool we should be fine
A deadline has a wonderful way of concentrating the mind.-Professor James Moriarty
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.- Former Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan
by Blame-everyone-else on Nov 7, 2011 9:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
a Chin Lung Hu-man cesspool?
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Nov 7, 2011 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
Letting him get those ~50 PAs was a Mischtake if I ever saw one...
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 7, 2011 11:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I thought you would have gone with
human cestodes
A deadline has a wonderful way of concentrating the mind.-Professor James Moriarty
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.- Former Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan
by Blame-everyone-else on Nov 8, 2011 5:55 PM EST up reply actions
so many fine choices
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Nov 8, 2011 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
I think we should definitely be on this
much different from Chapman in that he is a) older and b) a position player. Much less risk.
As others have pointed out, he’d have to be an utter and complete bust for this not to be worth it.
a) he could be much older
b) or injured or a headcase
Rey-sign Rey-ass
Logic Your Sense Makes None.
Should we really be worrying about a guy being a headcase?
That shouldn’t ever be a concern, unless the guy has obvious psychological issues like schizophrenia or something. Teams can do research on this guy…it’s not like they’re signing him blindly.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Nov 7, 2011 7:39 PM EST up reply actions
Just listing some of the things that people aren't taking into account.
Him being a headcase is probably the least likely of those three things, though.
Rey-sign Rey-ass
Logic Your Sense Makes None.
AT ALL COSTS!!!!!!!!!
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 7, 2011 11:51 PM EST up reply actions
Why...
…would the Mets want a CFer who could hit three times as many homers than Pagan, throw like a big leaguer, not make ridiculous mistakes in the field, and steal as many bases, for the same annual salary as the present occupant?
by Steve OnceBrooklynNowMets on Nov 7, 2011 11:15 PM EST reply actions
The Marlins!
Are the co-favorites to sign Cespedes, and could sign Reyes, as well. Wake me up in a few years—to see if Harvey and company are any good!
by Steve OnceBrooklynNowMets on Nov 7, 2011 11:44 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, and...
…if the Marlins sign Reyes, we don’t even get their First Round Draft Pick (which is protected).
by Steve OnceBrooklynNowMets on Nov 8, 2011 9:11 AM EST up reply actions
I doubt the Marlins are going to sign him.
Cuban or not, Loria hates paying for FAs.
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on Nov 8, 2011 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
I dont see him going to the Fish
not cuz of money, but years. i can see Loria trying to hit Reyes with a 2/40 or something stupid just to create a buzz for the new stadium.
by SFloridaMetsFan on Nov 8, 2011 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
Because Pagan has been a good, sometimes great MLB player
And this guy plays in Cuba. And, 2011 excluded, Cespedes would have to be pretty spectacular to be a better center fielder than Angel.
by Evan_S on Nov 8, 2011 12:32 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
but with the way Bay has been playing
and the ? surrounding Pagans ability, wouldnt having 4 good OFers be a good thing?
This guy is new to the league, gives a chance to asses the cuban kid slowly and if we run into the problem of having Pagan rebound, Bay gets his heads out of the clouds, Duda mashing and the cuban living up to the hype… well… that would be sweet.
for 5 mil a season.. that could be a good gamble.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
Like the really funny uncle with a healthy bourbon habit who matches every brilliant Thanksgiving story with one or two ill-advised racist jokes or boob grabs, we’re stuck with Melo. So we might as well learn to love him — quirks and all. http://knickerblogger.net/2011-report-card-carmelo-anthony/
I agree he's worth a gamble.
I’d love the Mets to sign hm and start him off in Buffalo or something, but let’s be realistic here, Angel has proven that he can at the very least be an average MLB player while Cespedes has proven nothing.
really though
all Angel has “proven” is that he is inconsistent.
He most certainly could be an average player moving forward, but he has just as much a chance of being a below average player.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
Like the really funny uncle with a healthy bourbon habit who matches every brilliant Thanksgiving story with one or two ill-advised racist jokes or boob grabs, we’re stuck with Melo. So we might as well learn to love him — quirks and all. http://knickerblogger.net/2011-report-card-carmelo-anthony/
Not to mention that Angel's already 30 and set to become a free agent after 2012.
That’s not old necessarily but for a rebuilding team, let’s face it…he’s not likely to be the starting center fielder on the next Mets contending team. As it is, there are rumors flying that the front office isn’t thrilled with his play. Ultimately they’re bringing him back because it’s the right move…you don’t give up potential value no matter how much you dislike the player. At the same time, they’d probably want somebody a little younger and a little better on both sides of the ball than Angel. He’s just a stopgap, unless he comes back with a year like 2009 or 2010 (and even then, you probably should just sell high).
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Nov 8, 2011 1:32 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Last offseason
I was begging for Pagan to be dealt, while he was at his peak value.
Irregardless, I don’t really see him as the starting CF in 2012. Don’t ask me who’s playing, I just see someone new there.
It's a word
Ironically, with the same meaning as “regardless”
It's not a word
It’s just something people say when they mean regardless because we were taught that “ir” is a negative prefix and people feel the need to attach it to regardless to sound negative even though it actually creates a double negative being paired with “less.” So logically, “irregardless” should mean “regard,” but since it’s not really a word, it doesn’t matter.
I recognize that it's improper
but it’s also common dialect where I’m from.
Recognized by meriam webster as "nonstandard"
which basically is the same as saying it’s not a word.
Well...
at least you didn’t cite Urban Dictionary as a source.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Nov 12, 2011 10:41 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
That was awesome
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 14, 2011 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
GOOD TEAMS
Good teams take gambles- they win some, they lose some. How about signing Cespedes & tendering Pagan a contract? Can’t hurt to have options & depth. If Bay is miraculously traded, one of them could man left field.
This would be ideal
When is the deadline to tender Angel a contract, because I’d make a play on Cespedes and if he’s gonna cost the same per year, I’d rather take the gamble on him. My biggest hope with Pagan is that he rebounds and plays more like 2009/2010 and nets us a top prospect at the deadline.
One of them would move to right
Duda would move to left.
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
Kaz Matsui also hit tons of home runs and won Gold Gloves in another country
Doesn’t mean you can do it here.
by psiogen on Nov 8, 2011 10:14 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Ichiro would like a word with you
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Ichiro is the exception to the rule.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Nov 8, 2011 8:37 PM EST up reply actions
Hideki Matsui would have covered a 6/30 contract as well
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
Two exceptions.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Nov 8, 2011 8:55 PM EST up reply actions
Here are all the hitter who played in the NPB and then came to the MLB:
Ichiro*
Hideki Matsui*
Kaz Matsui*
Kosuke Fukudome*
Tsuyoshi Nishioka^
Tsuyoshi Shinjo
So Taguchi
Tad Iguchi^
Norihiro Nakamura* (He almost signed with the Mets, but decided not to because he felt he couldn’t trust a team that leaked signing information!. He only had a few ABs in the MLB, with the Dodgers).
Kenji Jojhima*
Akinori Iwamura*
(The guys with asterisks are guys who had pretty good careers in Japan, the guys with whatever this symbol is called (^) are borderline in my opinion.)
Of them, Ichiro, Hideki Matsui, Tad Iguchi, So Taguchi, Kenji Jojhima, and Akinori Iwamura all had more or less decent MLB showings- Ichiro and Matsui being the best two, obviously.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 8, 2011 9:06 PM EST up reply actions
I just learned something
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
As did I
AA is a very intellectual place. Very classy, too.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 8, 2011 9:50 PM EST up reply actions
whats up doc?
Hoping the Wilpons become the Will-pawns
by exbrooklynite on Nov 11, 2011 7:56 AM EST up reply actions
shhhhhhh!
you had me at Tsuyoshi Shinjo
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Nov 8, 2011 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
Wait...you're putting Iguchi, Taguchi, Johjima and Iwamura on the same pedestal as Ichiro?
Ichiro’s been worth 53 fWAR, Matsui 15 fWAR. None of those other guys listed would’ve covered a 6/30 contract, mostly because they didn’t even last 6 seasons…their careers fell apart after 3 or so. Ichiro is certainly an exception to the rule, considering the “rule” is all of the other guys you listed. There hasn’t been another offensive player from Japan that has been half as valuable as Matsui in the MLB, who isn’t even close to half as valuable as Ichiro.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Nov 8, 2011 10:26 PM EST up reply actions
No
I clearly stated Ichiro and Matsui were the best of the best. I said that those players from Japan who were very good there had decent MLB showings.
A 6/$30 contract has nothing to do with anything I’m talking about.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 8, 2011 10:57 PM EST up reply actions
to be fair
most of the Japanese guys come over here much later than 25 years old. A 25 year old is much more likely to cover a 5 year deal than a 30 or 31 year old is.
Time to update this: 2009 Did Not Happen. Neither did 2010. Or 2011. Sports suck.
OT question about Japanese players
When do they decide if they want to be posted? Meaning when can we expect a decision from Darvish?
A deadline has a wonderful way of concentrating the mind.-Professor James Moriarty
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.- Former Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan
by Blame-everyone-else on Nov 9, 2011 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
They have to make the decision and inform their team between November and March
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 9, 2011 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
That's quite a large time frame
is there any precedent as to when it is normally done? And wouldn’t it be prudent to decide early, before most teams move to lock up free agents? If they wait too long and the Yankees sign Wilson, they are effectively out of the bidding for Darvish.
A deadline has a wonderful way of concentrating the mind.-Professor James Moriarty
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.- Former Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan
by Blame-everyone-else on Nov 9, 2011 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
Historically,
Eight postings in November (Ichiro, Akinori Otsuka, Daisuke Matsuzaka, Akinori Iwamura, Kei Igawa, Tsuyoshi Nishioka, Hisashi Iwakuma and Yusaku Iriki), three in December (Shinji Mori, Akinori Otsuka, and Koji Mitsui), three in January (Norihiro Nakamura, Kazu Ishii, and Koji Mitsui again), and three in February (Alejandro Quezada, Ramón Ramírez, and our good friend Timo Perez).
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 9, 2011 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks for the great info, btw
where does it come from? Do you follow the Japanese game closely, or is there some sort of Baseball-reference for the Japanese game?
A deadline has a wonderful way of concentrating the mind.-Professor James Moriarty
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.- Former Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan
by Blame-everyone-else on Nov 9, 2011 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
That came from Wikipedia.
No need to make things harder than they are. ;)
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 9, 2011 6:48 PM EST up reply actions
Otsuka posted twice?
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on Nov 9, 2011 7:45 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah
2002, he was posted, and no one bid on him. 2003, he was posted again, and this time got bites.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 9, 2011 7:57 PM EST up reply actions
According to the Daily News
The Skankees are interested
Rey-sign Rey-ass
Logic Your Sense Makes None.
minors
If the Mets do sign him, will he begin the season in the minors? At what level?
Probably High-A
then rapid promotions…
by SFloridaMetsFan on Nov 8, 2011 5:23 PM EST up reply actions
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