A Modified DH Proposal

by cpins on Dec 1, 2011 2:30 PM EST

I hate the DH. You probably hate the DH. But the MLBPA loves it so we're stuck with the DH.

I also hate two sets of rules for inter-league and World Series play. Most fans and powers-that-be probably agree. We NL fans dread the thought that those powers-that-be might someday force the "AL-Style-DH" on our beloved senior circuit. But should that idea gain momentum, there might be an imperfect compromise that saves the NL from the current DH rule.

This modified DH improves the quality of play on both sides of the NL ball and betters defense in the AL. I'm not 100% sold but it could well be something both leagues would agree on. Here goes:

Each team still has 9 spots in the batting order. Each club gets to use a DH. BUT each pitcher must take his turn at bat in order to remain in the game.

So to use the DH you play one defensive player who does not bat.

Clubs could more easily carry an all-glove/no-hit fielder and an all slug/no glove hitter.

Say we lose Jose, Murphy gets injured again and we're looking at an offensively challenged Tejada/Turner middle infield . . . you could DH Lucas Duda for either Tejada or Turner and have your 4th OFer play right field be it Harris, Hairston, an Endy Chavez type etc.

Advantages:

Pitchers get better defense behind them.
Better offense from the 1-8 slots.
All Slug/No Glove players like Lucas Duda maximize and equalize their value across leagues.
All managers must master the double switch and know when to pinch-hit or pull a starting pitcher that is due to hit in a close game.
The players union gets another higher-paying NL roster spot.
We get uniformity of rules again.
The NL is protected from the "AL-Style DH"
Both leagues have to "give something" from the status quo.

Downsides:

You stunt the offensive development of young Tejada-like players that lose 200-400 PA's a season.
All glove players might see a decline in their salary which could raise some MLBPA objections.
It's still a DH - which sucks - but it seems better than the one out there now.

So NL fans - is that a tradeoff worth making in order to ensure the senior circuit never has to adopt the dreaded current DH rule?

* Someone I mentioned this to a couple of years ago said they thought this rule/one like it may already exist in HS ball. It sure didn't way back when I was in HS. I'd love to know if that's the case though and if there are any differences. Thanks.

Poll

Is a "Modified DH" acceptable in the name of unifying rules across the NL & AL?

Keep the current two rules for two leagues

41 votes

Unify the rules with the "Modified DH"

8 votes

Use the current DH across both leagues

6 votes

55 votes | Poll has closed

This FanPost was contributed by a member of the community and was not subject to any vetting or approval process. It does not necessarily reflect the opinions, reasoning skills, or attention to grammar and usage rules held by the editors of this site.

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Comments

This...

The evolution of all sports call for changes like what your proposing. Instead of the MLBPA seeing the value of all glove/no bat players going down they should consider that the current market for 5 tool players going into FA for the first time will surely skyrocket as well as keep players that would have normally retired still in the league while maintaining the purity of the National League version of the game. I would also move that an additional roster spot be created for all teams to accomadate this change…

Undefeated is the new "Winning".
Duh, undefeated....

by The real Julio from Paterson on Dec 1, 2011 2:42 PM EST reply actions

Not sure I understand.

The big reason AL people love the DH is because they don’t want their pitcher to blow a hammy rounding 1st. With this plan pitchers hit.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place

by Ogre39666 on Dec 1, 2011 3:18 PM EST reply actions

Yes - those folks would be unhappy with it

And that might mean the AL would never go for it. But part of the point is that if the NL is going to have to swallow some sort of DH, the AL has to give something up as well. The payoff is uniformity of rules plus more good defenders in the field. In the NL you also get more offense but less in the AL and you preserve the strategy of NL ball where managers have to ponder multiple variables when considering a pitching change.

by cpins on Dec 1, 2011 3:37 PM EST up reply actions

Proposal: No DH, no pitcher hitting, lineup of 8 hitters.

AL fans don’t have to watch pitchers hitting, NL fans don’t have to watch DH.

In lobby for: Jaime Cevallos, Zack Lutz, orange unis and Rickroll as the 7th inning song.
The Unwritten Rules of AA

by Michkin on Dec 1, 2011 3:44 PM EST reply actions 1 recs

I like the current system, but I would much rather have this than a DH in both leagues.

Bobby Baseball - The future of Amazin' Avenue.

by Bobby Baseball on Dec 1, 2011 5:04 PM EST up reply actions

What about having a DH bothers you?

A deadline has a wonderful way of concentrating the mind.-Professor James Moriarty
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.- Former Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

by Blame-everyone-else on Dec 1, 2011 5:27 PM EST up reply actions

see my post below

Bobby Baseball - The future of Amazin' Avenue.

by Bobby Baseball on Dec 1, 2011 9:44 PM EST up reply actions

I like the way things are now

Pitchers hitting is fun. Nine times out of ten nowadays, they fail, but when thee don’t, it’s awesome.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 1, 2011 4:53 PM EST via mobile reply actions

If you think thats awesome

you should come by my baseball league. We all hit like pitchers

A deadline has a wonderful way of concentrating the mind.-Professor James Moriarty
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.- Former Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

by Blame-everyone-else on Dec 1, 2011 5:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

Sorta like Felix Hernandez smacking a homer off Santana? OOF!

by chakrabs on Dec 1, 2011 8:14 PM EST up reply actions

Exactly

Crazy insane awesome moment. It hurt us, but still, if, as a baseball fan, you can’t recognize how crazy awesome that moment was, GTFO.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 2, 2011 11:40 AM EST up reply actions

How about we just play real baseball the right way

and get rid of the DH altogether. The whole concept of the DH is stupid. Baseball is sport where you need to be good at two things. Baseball consists of offense and defense, much like any other sport. If you want to play in the field, you have to hit. If you want to hit, you have to play in the field. If you want to pitch, you have to hit.

That is how you play baseball. I hate the concept of “Lets not have the pitcher hit because he is bad at hitting. He can’t spend time practicing hitting because then he will lose out on his time for practicing pitching.” Well if that is acceptable to you, is it ok that I am a student in school but “Lets not have me do math because I am not good at math. I can’t spend time studying math because then I lose out on my time for studying science and history”?

There are two acceptable ways to look at it in my opinion.

1: The pitchers have to hit, I don’t care if they suck at hitting as long as they are good at pitching. I don’t mind them not practicing hitting as long as they excel at pitching.

2: Baseball is a game with offense and defense. If you are not going to put the time in to learn 50% of your profession, then you shouldn’t be a professional baseball player.

That’s why I absolutely hate the DH.

Bobby Baseball - The future of Amazin' Avenue.

by Bobby Baseball on Dec 1, 2011 5:13 PM EST reply actions 17 recs

Someone get the kid a medal

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 1, 2011 6:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions

this, the game is way too specialized in my opinion

Yogi on the 1969 NY Mets....." overwhelming underdogs "

by SuperSantana on Dec 1, 2011 6:59 PM EST up reply actions

You're wise beyond your years, Bobby.

"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."

by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 1, 2011 10:45 PM EST up reply actions

he is really 47

One day, this team is going to kill me.

by fxcarden on Dec 2, 2011 1:24 PM EST up reply actions

Didn't need to read past the first sentence to know it was getting a rec

by ZZPops on Dec 1, 2011 11:54 PM EST up reply actions

you sir are correct

Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?

by KeithsMoustache on Dec 2, 2011 12:17 AM EST up reply actions

If only my kid were as baseball savvy as you, Bobby...

le sigh.

The 2011 New York Mets: Assume crash position

by CTRefJay on Dec 2, 2011 12:39 AM EST up reply actions

This eight times, and then batting ninth this.

by Ownbey4Mex on Dec 2, 2011 5:26 AM EST up reply actions

the idea that pitchers cant spend time practicing hitting

is the dumbest thing in the world to me.

I kinda get the idea that there is an injury risk… but that exists anywhere. Like they cant spend an hour a day in the cage to at least be passable.

I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."

Like the really funny uncle with a healthy bourbon habit who matches every brilliant Thanksgiving story with one or two ill-advised racist jokes or boob grabs, we’re stuck with Melo. So we might as well learn to love him — quirks and all. http://knickerblogger.net/2011-report-card-carmelo-anthony/

by gbaked on Dec 2, 2011 12:45 PM EST up reply actions

Practicing in the cage isn't even an injury risk

Pitching machines don’t make bad pitches that hit you in the head and give you a concussion. The only way you could get hurt in the cage is if you pull a muscle if you didn’t stretch properly or something, but you could just as easily do that pitching as you could hitting. It doesn’t even matter how bad your training staff is, any professional training staff would be smart enough to prevent an injury swinging a bat in a cage.

You don’t even need a cage to practice hitting. As my little league coaches used to say, during the TV commercial just stand up and practice the hand motions. It’s not that hard.

Bobby Baseball - The future of Amazin' Avenue.

by Bobby Baseball on Dec 2, 2011 11:03 PM EST up reply actions

and its not like they need to hit .300

a pitcher that can hit .250 with a obp over .300 would help his own cause sooooo much.

I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."

by gbaked on Dec 3, 2011 12:47 AM EST up reply actions

How about pitchers only qualify for wins if they hit in the game they're pitching in

but can opt to have a DH and only get half a win? Lets see how long pitchers will forego WINZZZ just so they don’t have to learn how to hit.

Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?

by KeithsMoustache on Dec 3, 2011 12:52 PM EST up reply actions

clever

by SuperT on Dec 3, 2011 3:04 PM EST up reply actions

Who would decide if the pitcher hits? The pitcher or the manager?

Because if it’s the manager’s choice, the pitcher will never hit. Even if it is the pitcher’s choice, most pitchers would probably choose to use a DH for the benefit of their team, and if they didn’t there would be discussions about character issues and whatnot.

I do like how this would really downplay the value of pitcher wins, but being as those are such an important stat to get into the Hall of Fame and the basis for Cy Young and I believe arbitration as well, I highly doubt the Players Union would go along with this.

Bobby Baseball - The future of Amazin' Avenue.

by Bobby Baseball on Dec 3, 2011 9:59 PM EST up reply actions

oh I'm sure it would never be instituted, but it would certainly incentivize hitting as a pitcher.

More a thought experiment than a real suggestion

Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?

by KeithsMoustache on Dec 4, 2011 2:44 PM EST up reply actions

this

they usually have one pitching session and lots of running between starts, why shouldn’t they be able to practice some? If they can’t hit, they can practice bunting extensively and become much more proficient at that than the majority of current starters are

2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!

by astromets on Dec 4, 2011 1:03 PM EST up reply actions

yeah thats the shocking part.. I know bunting is deceptively difficult

but still, it’s the only thing pitchers are required to do with a bat, and most suck at it.

Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?

by KeithsMoustache on Dec 4, 2011 2:45 PM EST up reply actions

and they all could be helping themselves out by improving on it

2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!

by astromets on Dec 5, 2011 4:17 PM EST up reply actions

whoops, read the pole wrong. I want it the way it is i suppose, not choice three.

Yogi on the 1969 NY Mets....." overwhelming underdogs "

by SuperSantana on Dec 1, 2011 6:58 PM EST reply actions

well, actually, i would prefer bobby baseball suggestion anyway

Yogi on the 1969 NY Mets....." overwhelming underdogs "

by SuperSantana on Dec 1, 2011 7:00 PM EST up reply actions

No DH would be ideal

but your plan is much better than DH in both leagues and probably the most realistic alternative for future years.

And for that, we rec you.

Rey-sign Rey-ass
Logic Your Sense Makes None.

by JoeBighead on Dec 1, 2011 7:07 PM EST reply actions

The players union can be easily persuaded to dump the DH

Expand baseball by 2 teams contingent upon the abolition of the DH. 15 DH jobs are eliminated as 50 new jobs are created. Problem solved.

__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden

by Russ on Dec 1, 2011 7:39 PM EST reply actions

yeah

because baseball needs moar teams

One day, this team is going to kill me.

by fxcarden on Dec 1, 2011 8:06 PM EST up reply actions

Actually, regular expansion is fine

I think people who believe the talent pool gets overly diluted are laboring under the misconception that in 1960, every player on every team was good. The population of the US is ever-expanding, of course, and the number of foreign-born players in MLB is approaching 30% — it was like 10% in 1990. In 2013 it will have been 15 years since the last expansion, right?

I think two new teams in exchange for no DH is a brilliant idea. I don’t think it will be thought of that way, though, because people who love real baseball just don’t have enough pull.

by SuperT on Dec 1, 2011 8:28 PM EST up reply actions

I was breaking Russ'

One day, this team is going to kill me.

by fxcarden on Dec 1, 2011 8:34 PM EST up reply actions

balls

because I miss him since the season ended

One day, this team is going to kill me.

by fxcarden on Dec 1, 2011 8:35 PM EST up reply actions

Hey, I miss you

My off season has been impacted by you more than anyone else. Ever since you posted this, I’ve switched over to hard liquor in an attempt to become an alcoholic. From AA to AA has been my goal. I’ve purchased eight bottles of booze since that epiphanous game thread.

Unfortunately, after I get a buzz, I lose interest in drinking further, so I have yet to actually get drunk. I have one unopened bottle of Tito’s in my freezer, so only seven bottles have been tapped. My first two bottles of whisk(e)y, Buffalo Trace and Teacher’s, sit empty in my kitchen in empty tribute to you. I’m currently rotating another bottle of BT with Eagle Rare 10, George Dickel #12, Great King Street Artist’s Blend and Ardbeg 10.

All in all, my currently failed attempt to get to the Betty Ford Clinic has been enjoyable. The one thing that I’ve learned so far is so much whisk(e)y, so little time.

Since you are as close to a carousing Cuban uncle that I’ll ever have, I hope that you approve.

Miss you man.

__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden

by Russ on Dec 2, 2011 7:57 AM EST up reply actions 5 recs

You da f-ing man, bro

I lobby AA get together.

I have time now.

One day, this team is going to kill me.

by fxcarden on Dec 3, 2011 11:06 AM EST up reply actions

It's getting about that time

Last year it was in January, so…

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 3, 2011 3:20 PM EST up reply actions

December would work best for me

January might be tough, but whatever

One day, this team is going to kill me.

by fxcarden on Dec 3, 2011 4:02 PM EST up reply actions

How about September 17th at the Ginger Man?

__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden

by Russ on Dec 3, 2011 5:10 PM EST up reply actions

DECember?

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 3, 2011 5:25 PM EST up reply actions

DOH!!!

December 17th would be correct.

__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden

by Russ on Dec 3, 2011 5:35 PM EST up reply actions

January works better for me.

Got an Xmas party that night, and I have to cook for it beforehand.

"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."

by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 4, 2011 2:45 AM EST up reply actions

Hard liquor?

Sounds like this guy doesn’t even drink beer while following offseason baseball news.

Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?

by KeithsMoustache on Dec 3, 2011 12:53 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs

He has a fat face

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 3, 2011 3:20 PM EST up reply actions

And a scummy scum.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place

by Ogre39666 on Dec 3, 2011 3:22 PM EST up reply actions

Players union

would want both more teams & the DH. They might fallback to no DH as a compromise but it would be anything but easy.

by cpins on Dec 1, 2011 8:36 PM EST up reply actions

The owners

don’t want to abolish the DH. They see it as lesser risk of their investment (pitchers) getting hurt, and more HRs to put asses on the seats.

Which is all too bad because the DH should be abolished and real baseball should be played in both leagues.

by SwedeMet on Dec 2, 2011 3:58 AM EST up reply actions

If that was the case, then why doesn't the NL have the DH?

I’ve never accepted the DH as a form of risk management for pitchers. Even though pitchers frequently get injured, how often do they do so while batting or running the bases?

__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden

by Russ on Dec 2, 2011 8:09 AM EST up reply actions

Becasue sports is very conservative.

And change is often met with skepticism by fans. I agree with you that the arugument to protect the pitches is a good one, but it is still there.

I don’t see the AL abolishing the DH, the risk is much greater that the NL eventually will adopt the rule and it will be a very sad day.

by SwedeMet on Dec 2, 2011 9:47 AM EST up reply actions

The DH was originally implemented simply to create more offense

A lot of AL teams view it as a way to “protect” pitchers, like Steinbrenner did when Chien-Ming Wang got injured, but to counter that, how often are NL pitchers hurt while at bat?

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 2, 2011 11:43 AM EST up reply actions

You're right that it might not be that easy, but it is certainly not impossible.

I still believe that if the MLBPA had to choose between the DH and two more teams, the DH would be gone.

__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden

by Russ on Dec 2, 2011 8:12 AM EST up reply actions

Could also just go to a full-time 26 man roster to increase jobs

if expansion is not feasible. Anything that gets rid of the DH is okay by me. Well, maybe not anything.

"Sometimes you make a mistake and you get hit in the head." - Eli Manning

by blains2000 on Dec 2, 2011 11:46 AM EST up reply actions

I don't like the DH at all

But if we’re discussing DH inclusive alternatives why not a 10 man softball-ish extra-hitter batting lineup? All 9 fielders would bat including the pitcher and in addition, an extra-hitter, who would not play the field, would also bat. I guess Designated Hitter would still be an okay name but he wouldn’t be “designated” to hit for any fielder.

"Sometimes you make a mistake and you get hit in the head." - Eli Manning

by blains2000 on Dec 2, 2011 11:44 AM EST reply actions

In addition

the reason I like the extra hitter concept over what is proposed above is that this does not increase the specialization. The concept proposed above expands the specialization from just hitter only to include fielder only as well.

"Sometimes you make a mistake and you get hit in the head." - Eli Manning

by blains2000 on Dec 2, 2011 11:56 AM EST up reply actions

I don’t see how this idea would work, why make the pitcher hit but let someone else who is bad at hitting (but not as bad as the pitcher) the ability to only play the field.

The point of the DH is to have 9 hitters in the lineup, having the DH but still only 8 good hitters seems pointless.

by Phildo on Dec 3, 2011 8:11 AM EST reply actions

More thoughts

People on both sides of the debate have pro/con lists for the DH, and this seems to just take all the cons and make them the rule, making everyone unhappy.

If a change must be made, remove the part of the rule that says the DH MUST replace the pitcher. Sure, the DH will replace the pitcher 99.9% of the time, but you never know.

by Phildo on Dec 3, 2011 8:37 AM EST up reply actions