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An In-Depth Look at the Mets' Finances

The Mets' financial situation is worse than we thought. I've written a few things over the last week or so, and during the process, I keep finding new facts alleged by the media about the dollars and cents -- or lack thereof -- which make this team run.

All these items are spread over tens of articles spread across, at this point, a half dozen different publications. After the jump, I try and cobble as much of it together as I can, with copious amounts of links.

Do the Mets have any money?

This isn't an easy question to answer directly, but the short answer is, "probably not," as explained below.

The Mets had "big losses" in 2011, "irrespective of Bernie Madoff." Perhaps as much as $70 million.

Those aren't my words -- they're Sandy Alderson's. Alderson, in the same piece, said that the Mets had lost $70 million, but wouldn't say whether that was in 2011 alone. If it is, that'd be perfectly consistent with what Fred Wilpon said earlier this year, as well as a more recent report from the NY Post. And it's also close to what Forbes came up with -- $77 million in losses, if you don't include SNY profits (discussed below) -- if you assume operational revenue is for 2011 is $0.

We don't know what the exact number is -- it could be $40 million, $70 million, $100 million, etc. We also don't know if the losses Alderson (or, for that matter, Wilpon) was talking about included the Mets' share of profits from SNY. We don't know, explicitly, whether the losses are operational losses or whether they include debt service, but given the size of the loss, debt almost certainly needs to be one of the factors.

Star-divide

Let's look at the Mets' revenue.

Forbes estimates that the Mets had $268 million in revenue in 2009 and $233 in 2010. I can find estimates for three big chunks of money, excluding its share of profits from SNY.

1) The Mets are getting $25 million a year from Citibank for naming rights of Citi Field, per Adam Rubin. Note that he believes that most people have it as $20 million.

2) Forbes estimated that gate receipts were $164 million in 2009 and $123 million in 2010 (see links above).

3) SNY pays the Mets an estimated $60 million to $70 million for the rights to broadcast Mets games, according to the New York Times (second to last sentence). Note that this is independent of (and in excess of) any of SNY's profits which flow to the Mets.

With a player payroll of roughly $150 million, it's pretty clear that the team's debt service is what's keeping these losses so high.

So, how much debt does the team have?

Forbes estimates that, going into the 2011 season, the team owed $1.07 billion. Most of that -- $695 million -- is tied to Citi Field construction, but $375 million is team debt. This does not include the $25 million emergency loan MLB made to the team, which only came to light after Forbes made its estimations.

The Daily News has the Mets' debt at $427 million (and may attribute that number to Wilpon; their language is unclear and may be intended to mislead). Whether this includes the $25 million MLB loan is unlikely but questionable; whether it includes Citi Field debt is unknown.

How does that turn into (say) $70 million in losses?

Again, let's go to Forbes: they assert that the Mets owed $52 million on loans regarding Citi Field, and another $25 in debt service to that $375 million in team debt.

How did the Mets cover that budget deficit?

We don't really know. Some of it -- probably around $40-50 million -- came from their SNY stake. Another $25 came from the loan from MLB. That comes close to, and might even exceed, $70 million. However, the New York Post (third to last sentence) claims that the Wilpons put $38 million into the Mets this year in order to keep the team solvent. Where this money came from is unknown; it may have simply been the Mets' share of SNY profits; it may have been additional.

Can they cover it in the future?

As of now, almost certainly not. The team hasn't paid back the $25 million emergency loan from MLB as of December 1. Further, Wilpon apparently told SI (per the Daily News) that the $200 million the Mets were hoping to raise by selling 20-25% of the team (discussed later) was already armarked, with $100 million going toward operating costs -- basically, money set aside to keep the Mets solvent.

Wait -- can't SNY keep the Mets solvent? I hear that SNY is incredibly profitable.

This is true, but context matters. The Times states that SNY does about $120 million in free cash flow a year, which we'll use as an approximation for earnings before debt service. SNY has about $450 million in debt, per that same article as well as others. Given reports (mentioned above) that the team earned $40-50 million from its SNY stake, and that the team owns 65% of SNY, the television station is probably clearing $75 million or so a year in profits. That's a ton of money when your expenses are in the $200-$400 million range -- in other words, SNY is extremely profitable in that its margins are great.

Margins? Why is that important to note?

Two reasons:

1) It means that SNY's earnings can't really save the Mets, in and of themselves. While the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim's recent TV deal earns them $150 million a year for the next 20 years, the Mets' arrangement with SNY is only starting to approach that. (I don't think the Mets could get $150 million a year in a negotiated contract, for what it's worth; and I think the Angels only did because of what's going on with the Dodgers -- and probably only because they signed Pujols.) So it's probably wrong to look at SNY as something which can, in and of itself, buoy the Mets indefinitely. Yes, SNY is insanely profitable, but that's only when you compare their revenues to their expenditures. Compare gross profits to the Mets' payroll and it's probably a negative number for a long, long time, if not forever.

2) It means that SNY's valuation is fantastic. It may be worth $1 billion -- that is, more than the Mets itself.

Wait: how much are the Mets worth?

Right now, the best guess is $700 million to $1 billion, excluding the team's debt. Before the 2011 season, Forbes estimated it to be about $757 million, down from $858 million a year earlier. The team is looking to raise $200 million in a mix of equity and debt and apparently, that equity is based on a valuation of $950 million. The Wilpons had previously stated that they'd sell up to 25% of the team, so this range makes sense given the decision to raise $200 million. Of course, this new $200 million raise is going slowly per one account (or well, per another) so perhaps the $950 million valuation is too high.

So the Wilpons are going to sell part of the team. Problem solved, right?

No -- because of the debt, it can't be a straight sale. Assuming that the Mets owe $700 million total (which is probably too low), and that the team's valuation absent the debt is $900 million (which is probably too high), the team's "book value" is $200 million. (If you don't get this: imagine homeowners selling their house for $250,000, but with a $200,000 mortgage they have to pay off. The homeowners only get $50,000. The analogy isn't quite perfect but it does the job.)

Twenty five percent of that is $50 million, but the Mets are hoping to raise $200 million -- that is, the full amount as if the team had no debt. In order to get that "full amount," the Mets have to do some weird things in the equity purchase contract -- things which muddy the waters.

Like what?

The David Einhorn dealings contained an odd contractual clause. Einhorn was to pay $200 million for a non-controlling, non-voting stake in the team, probably around 33% of it. If that was the full deal, we'd have a pretty straightforward equity sale, putting the team's valuation well north of $650 million. (Because Einhorn's 33% would be non-voting, it'd be cheaper, on a per-share basis, than the Wilpons'.)

But that wasn't the full deal. Apparently, per the contract, the Wilpons had three to five years to pay back Einhorn's $200 million investment. If they did, Einhorn would still retain a roughly 17% stake in the team; if not, Einhorn would have the option to buy a controlling stake in the team -- totaling 60% ownership for one dollar.

The new investors the Mets are trying to attract are also getting a sweetened deal with an out clause. These investors are, collectively, buying $200 million in equity, but if after six years, they want out, the Wilpons will pay them back their investment plus 3% interest (compounded annually, I assume).

In other words...

In six years, there's a very good chance that the Wilpons will need to come up with $240 million, give or take, to pay back these investors. After all, even if the Mets' valuation shoots up over the next six years, it'll be hard for investors/lenders to keep a very tiny (roughly 2 percent) stake in the team while forgoing a nearly $4 million profit payday.

OK, let's talk SNY. You said it was worth $1 billion... can't the Wilpons sell part, and get money out of it?

Maybe.

First, they don't own the whole thing.

SNY is owned by the Mets (65%), Time Warner Cable (27%), and NBCUniversal (8%). NBCUniversal is co-owned by Comcast (51%) and GE (49%), with Comcast operating it. The Mets' stake in SNY is a bit unclear -- I've read in some places that the Wilpons own SNY independent of the Mets, but I can't find a citation for that any more, and I've read things which suggest otherwise as well. It's probably a non-issue, though, as the Wilpons could reorganize the Mets' cap table to get around that if need be, I think.

The minority owners have some rights. We're not sure what those rights are, but in March, TWC and NBCU apparently threatened to block a sale of some of the Mets' share of SNY. And there's a good chance that TWC and NBCU have a right of first refusal over any sale, which, especially in NBCU's case, is interesting, as Comcast has a growing network of sports stations -- and no New York foothold.

Second, SNY has a LOT of debt.

As in $450 million. Apparently, the Mets/Wilpons, TWC, and NBCU refinanced the debt on SNY in 2007 and, in doing so, added a lot more debt so they could pay themselves a dividend worth, in total, $240 million. (Where that money went is anyone's guess.) Because of the debt, and because that debt went in part to the owners as a dividend, it's near certain that the first dollars of any such sale would go toward that debt. Basically, if SNY is worth $1 billion, it's only worth $550 million after the debt is deducted, meaning the Mets' share is worth about $357.5 million.

That doesn't mean the Mets couldn't recoup another $200 million or more by selling part of their interest in SNY. It does, however, mean that doing so would almost certainly cost them control of SNY, as Comcast or TWC would likely be purchasing the sold amount and adding it to their stake. In order to get $200 million out of SNY, the Mets would need to sell 36% of the network -- that's enough to give TWC a majority share or to make Comcast the lead shareholder.

Oh, and selling that much of SNY would effectively cut the $40 million or so SNY throws off to the Mets in half. That would mean the team is running additional losses of $20 million a year, which the Wilpons may not be able to survive.

Sum it up?

Sure.

Right now, the Mets are running serious losses annually -- even including their profit share from SNY. There's no easy way for them to get enough cash to run the team, unless the Wilpons keep putting money in (if they can), and the current plan has a $240 million price tag attached to it, due 2017. They could sell a lot of their SNY stake, but that'd be a very painful sale -- and perhaps one fatal to the Wilpons' efforts to maintain their ownership of the team.

At least the Wilpons don't have to worry about Bernie Madoff any more.

Untrue: Irving Picard is still trying to recover money from the Wilpons -- somewhere between $83 million and $386 million.

This FanPost was contributed by a member of the community and was not subject to any vetting or approval process. It does not necessarily reflect the opinions, reasoning skills, or attention to grammar and usage rules held by the editors of this site.

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Comments

Display:

Wow

That is an informative and bleak picture you’ve drafted.

"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"

by I'mGivingYouARaise on Dec 12, 2011 2:16 AM EST reply actions  

I think you should write a fanpost

I’ve been thinking about writing a rebuttal to this Mets insolvency stuff by Dan (which is good stuff, Dan), because I think it’s overly dramatic — but I don’t have the accounting chops to do it. Can you?

by robotoverlord on Dec 12, 2011 4:50 PM EST up reply actions  

I didn't actually use the word "insolvent" this time

Thought better of it — it’s not true, as much as I kind of wish it were.

Learn something new every day: http://dlewis.net/nik

by Dan Lewis on Dec 12, 2011 4:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Jesus Dickey!

I came to AA for baseball news and get an accounting lecture!

Ban Accounting from AA!!!!

Just kidding. Very interesting to hear people talk about this.

Sell Wilpons!

__________________________________________________________________
Really good kid.A very good player.Not a superstar. #BlameWilponz. Never Forget

by ScottfromPeekskill on Dec 14, 2011 5:32 PM EST up reply actions  

except Wilpons are worthless

"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"

by feslenraster on Dec 24, 2011 7:00 PM EST up reply actions  

that quoted wrong

for clarity:

Meanwhile, new documents about the Mets show that several sources of revenue at Citi Field fell 20 percent in 2010 to $143.9 million. The slide does not appear to be continuing this season, with attendance down 7 percent after 14 home games to an average of 27,022 fans a game

Revenue from the ballpark’s most expensive 10,635 seats took the biggest fall, tumbling 35 percent to $64.5 million from $99.3 million, according to financial statements filed with the city’s Industrial Development Agency, which issued the tax-exempt bonds for Citi Field. The decrease is not surprising given the team’s poor on-field performance, and the impact the recession had on fans buying high-priced seats.
Concessions and parking had modest decreases; luxury suite rentals leaped 54 percent to $5.8 million; and advertising, the biggest source of revenue after club seats, was $47.9 million, up about $1 million.

The information is from documents filed by Queens Ballpark Company, a Mets subsidiary that leases the stadium from the I.D.A. The revenue they cite offer an incomplete picture of the Mets’ situation.

The filing excluded gate receipts from about 30,000 seats, the sale of local and national broadcasting rights and expenses like the team’s $140 million player payroll. Queens Ballpark’s profit fell to $52.5 million last year from $98.7 million in 2009 — still enough money to cover its bond payments.

The team, said a person with knowledge of its finances, is far from profitable. It lost $9 million in 2009, $51 million last year and expects to lose $60 million this year. Gate receipts, which flow to Sterling Mets LLC, the team’s owner, fell from $181 million in 2009 to $115 million last season.

After that it’s me, starting with “If we break this down…”

by acerimusdux on Dec 12, 2011 4:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Bottom bottom line?

That is the most impressive sounding rundown I’ve read anywhere of the Mets’ finances. Most journalists just seem to prattle off numbers they’ve read elsewhere without really showing an understanding of those numbers or digging deeper into their meaning, and they simply gloss over important facts (like the real impact and meaning of the Mets’ stadium debt which you explain here).

Question: From what you know, is the Mets current financial outlook better or worse than the picture of impending doom most are painting now? Also, what is your prediction of who will own the Mets a year from now? Do you think the Wilpons will hang on longer for the foreseeable future? (Assume the liability for the Picard lawsuit ends up to be about 150 million.)

by caseyB on Dec 14, 2011 4:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Best guess

My best guess is they squeak through. But the biggest factor might not be the team itself, it might be the commercial real estate market, which is beginning to recover some. The Wilpons control over $4B in real estate; not sure what their share of that is, but it’s large. It might even be that one reason they aren’t investing in the team right now is that commercial real estate at the moment is potentially more profitable. But if we get another slump in 2012, they could also be in trouble there.

I do think though that they’ve probably taken near as much out of the team as they would be permitted to take out. I think they could probably lose $40M this year on the team and cover that with profits from SNY. But I doubt they can keep running up losses of much larger than that, and still expect to pay off Picard.

by acerimusdux on Dec 14, 2011 7:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm missing the central fund......

Those advertising revenues all go to the ballpark. The Forbes numbers don’t count any of that, they count mostly just gate receipts + broadcast revenue + central fund revenues.

2009: $164M+$64M+$40M
2010: $123M+$66M+$44M

I don’t know exactly how much the central fund revenues are, but the leaked financials for the Angels had $37.7M revenues and $10.9M expenses. Other teams record a net amount; the Mariners in 2008 had $28.1M as “national revenues – net”. But I’d guess that the $40M-$44M in additional revenues there is mostly central fund revenues, plus some amount of additional advertising or merchandising that isn’t stadium related.

But the bond agreements spell out that all the stadium advertising, parking and concessions, and “retained rights” (the extra fees for the expensive seats) do go to Queens Ballpark.

So revenues were probably over $460M in 2009 and over $360M in 2010.

by acerimusdux on Dec 16, 2011 5:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, this is the way I see it too

I’m no accountant, but it seems to me that if the operational losses are debt-service related, then no equity has really been lost — if you take out a second mortgage, it doesn’t effect the worth of your house, you just can’t borrow any more against it. As long as MLB continues to provide short-term cash with low interest and few penalties, the Mets can continue indefinitely.
The 200M they are trying to raise is really a loan — at 3% it’s a steal. If the mets did lose 70M against 200M or so in revenue, then at 2009’s 268, they’d have come close to break even. If they raise revenues back to pre-2010 and cut costs to 100M, they’d make back 40M or so. I see the 2013 and 2014 Mets being very very profitable — which will probably mean that the 200M in shares are more likely to get bought out if anything.

by robotoverlord on Dec 12, 2011 4:42 PM EST up reply actions  

How much would SNY be worth separated from the Mets?

Without the rights to broadcast Mets games in perpetuity, are they still worth $2B? What does the contract between SNY and Mets look like?

And what happened to the $250M dividend that they got by taking on more debt? Do the other partners have to say what the terms of that were in their public filings?

by hotspur on Dec 15, 2011 11:11 AM EST up reply actions  

SNY Valuation

It seems pretty clear that there is a put from the other partners on the Wilpons should they wish to sell a percentage of SNY. that being said, when YES (fair comparison) put out the prospectus on an equity sale years ago (i think GS was selling their share) the EBITDA was nearly 19×.

Thats too high given the audience and growth potential and timing of a sale, but as a non matured business and as a cable property I wouldnt be surprised if for valuation was somewhere 11-14x EBIDTA for SNY. And depending on the terms between SNY and the Mets it could be even higher as it would be a sweetheart deal and better for the wilpons and baseball to keep the profits in the network.

by Robbish229 on Dec 21, 2011 5:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Great job; who knows if you are even close to correct since the Mets are a tight lipped private organization but...

great job trying to piece it together. You would probably need to be an accountant reading their financials to actually discover the origin of the $70 mill number.

I don’t doubt the Mets are any different then every other industry during the bubble. They over leveraged. Forbes 2008 article projects the revenues in a little graph for 7 years or so. You can see the steady climb that no doubt the Mets expected to continue. The Mets went and leveraged themselves purchasing a new stadium expecting the new stadium to increase revenues in enough proportion to cover the added debt (I doubt somewhat the above post that states no increased debt). The Mets revenues did in fact spike in 2009. Then everything collapsed. 2010 revenue fell back below the 2008 revenues but the new debt remained. Who knows what the revenues for 2011 were, but just as a fan, you can calculate how many fewer games you and your friends went to this year compared to the past.

Its much the same, per your example OP, of the dude that has gotten a pay raise every year, and expecting that raise, he buys a new house. Fast forward, and his job scales back bonuses and switches a greater burden for health care to the worker. Essentially, the worker makes less money and has a greater debt on his home, thereby doubly decreasing his in pocket spending money this year. If like Clark Grisawld, he already wrote a check for the new swimming pool, and the bonus doesn’t come, he must scrounge for the money elsewhere. If the value of his home has decreased, he can’t take an additional loan against the home. Read here: the Wilpon’s can’t get loans or sell anything until the Modaoff situation is settled. So the dude has to trade in his BMW for a Kia and use the extra cash for his debts… much like the team has to downgrade payroll to cover other expenses.

I dunno. Thats my attempt at being smart.

by CervezaVerde on Dec 12, 2011 3:56 AM EST reply actions  

Here's my brief take

In 2005, the Mets were probably like every other company out there — leveraged more than they should be.

In 2006, it got worse. Championship caliber team, new stadium coming, new TV network coming, and they have the I-banker from heaven in Bernie Madoff turning all that extra straw into gold. So, more leverage.

Yikes.

Learn something new every day: http://dlewis.net/nik

by Dan Lewis on Dec 12, 2011 9:47 AM EST up reply actions  

The really insidious thing....

If I’m right, it could even be in the Wilpons’ interest to make sure the team doesn’t do very well the next few years. If all they end up owing on Madoff is around $83M, they can probably make that out of the SNY earnings. And they have the investors money basically financing any team losses.

So they would really only need to come up with the money to buy those investors out, in which case a recovery in commercial real estate in that time would likely be enough (Sterling controls over $4B in properties there).

So their biggest concern will be that if the team is increasing in value, those investors will prefer the equity. Thus the smart thing for the Wilpons to do would be to try to be sure the team doesn’t increase in value too much, which as you point out would make the interest payment more attractive, in which case they could then buy those investors out and regain full control.

OK, I’m not sure how realistic that scenario is, but it would maybe make a good John Grisham novel.

by acerimusdux on Dec 12, 2011 4:09 AM EST reply actions  

or a Mel Brooks movie/play/movie

and Larry David season finale.

well done sir. I have thought this but never had the figures (nor the mind) to back it up.

Am I doing this right?

by brooklynberger on Dec 14, 2011 3:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Happy to green this!

Suck ma balls Wilpons!

__________________________________________________________________
Really good kid.A very good player.Not a superstar. #BlameWilponz. Never Forget

by ScottfromPeekskill on Dec 14, 2011 5:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Great post

Obviously ill gained Madoff profits floated this team for many years, and even more obvious is that the Wilpons are terrible owners without Bernie’s guaranteed 12%.

by bob c on Dec 12, 2011 11:40 AM EST reply actions   2 recs

I'd argue the opposite

The Wilpons are fucked. That means we’ll likely be rid of them at some point.

by Stephen Schmidt on Dec 14, 2011 7:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Hmm, I disagree

Wilpons will be fine, they’ll get their 200M, run the team on a budget less $100M/6 (oddly, exactly how much Jose Reyes got), and buy out those shares as soon as they can. Should be more than doable to win on that kind of budget (90-100M) if Sandy knows what he’s doing - and I for one believe he does.

Everything is going to be OK.

by robotoverlord on Dec 14, 2011 7:39 PM EST up reply actions  

These Shares are merely part of the overall Ponzi scheme that is the Mets finances.How will they ever

buy these back in 6 years with interest? The Wilponzies will merely borrow $200 million from some suckers unless they are stopped by MLB,Creditors,SEC or Irving Picard.

by Putnan Prince on Dec 14, 2011 10:40 PM EST up reply actions  

From what I am getting from the above,

they’re not that fucked. Or, rather, they’re not fucked to the point that they have to drop the team like a hot potato ASAP. Because they’re not that fucked, therefore, we’re fucked.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 14, 2011 10:58 PM EST up reply actions  

this is a great .gif. I think we need to keep this one around

Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?

by KeithsMoustache on Dec 12, 2011 6:44 PM EST up reply actions  

I see Murphy going down in a heap here

but where the heck is Jose Costanza in the gif?

"Intelligence is not a genetic predisposition. Think stupid!!"

by Wright of passage on Dec 15, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions  

This news just came out...let me toss it on the pile:

The Wilpons apparently took out another $40 million bridge loan from Bank of America within the last six weeks.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.

by Steve Schreiber on Dec 12, 2011 7:40 PM EST reply actions  

This is a non-issue

It’s a bridge loan. It’ll go away once the Mets close on $40m in sold equity — basically, the team is paying probably a few hundred thousand in order to get the money now (so they can pay off other obligations) instead of three months from now.

Learn something new every day: http://dlewis.net/nik

by Dan Lewis on Dec 12, 2011 8:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Gotcha.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.

by Steve Schreiber on Dec 12, 2011 8:22 PM EST up reply actions  

beat me to the punch

none of us will ever be able to look at any period of time with a 3 in front of it the same way again will we?

Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?

by KeithsMoustache on Dec 12, 2011 10:47 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I don't think so, no.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 12, 2011 11:53 PM EST up reply actions  

I just want to point out that

my “three months from now” comment was entirely intentional.

Learn something new every day: http://dlewis.net/nik

by Dan Lewis on Dec 13, 2011 9:53 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

But as the Gennaro quote says

doesn’t it mean that $65m goes right out the door to pay off the $25m to mlb & this new $40m to BOA once the “shares cash” is collected? Under the original belief that $100m was for operating expenses that gets crunched down to $35m pretty quickly. Seems like the margin for future is a lot smaller than it was 24 hours ago.

by cpins on Dec 12, 2011 10:01 PM EST up reply actions  

You're double-counting.

The $40m bridge loan goes toward operating expenses. It doesn’t just disappear. So when the Mets close the equity deals, yes, the first $65m goes to MLB and to the bridge loan repayment, but $40m of operational expenses are already taken care of.

Learn something new every day: http://dlewis.net/nik

by Dan Lewis on Dec 13, 2011 9:55 AM EST up reply actions  

of course

wasn’t this the idea behind the $25 mill MLB loan that they ended up not paying back?

The way I’m reading it is they’re playing super conservative with the team trying to get solvent so to speak. Playing not to lose too much instead of trying to greatly boost profits. (i.e. even though Reyes may have been ‘worth it’ so to speak, he likely wouldn’t have netted a 20million per year gain in revenue. (I disagree, but it works as an example)

Of course, it seems like the Wilpons are just putting off the inevitable unless the Mets do turn it around. Just the first two rounds of the playoffs nets a ridiculous amount of money.

-Ceetar, the Optimistic Mets Fan

by Ceetar on Dec 13, 2011 10:49 AM EST up reply actions  

wait..........they are going into the bridge business now ?

there go the tolls

One day, this team is going to kill me.

by fxcarden on Dec 18, 2011 5:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Anyone know if there are legal reasons to not sell until the Picard showdown is resolved?

I’m thinking if the Wilpons cashed out by selling the club they’d suddenly have more liquid cash for Picard to grab. Is it irrelevant whether they’ve got non-liquid assets vs. cash?

by cpins on Dec 13, 2011 4:13 PM EST reply actions  

Because Picard can only estimate a value for the team. If the Wilpons sell then there is hard cash for him to grab, nice and easy.

It also gives Wilpon extra incentive to put crap on the field, drive the value lower still then when Picard is done, he hopes he can rebuild the team.

This is a case of Mets fans being screwed by billionaires who dont care about us, only their reign on power.

__________________________________________________________________
Really good kid.A very good player.Not a superstar. #BlameWilponz. Never Forget

by ScottfromPeekskill on Dec 14, 2011 5:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Caption time ...

Can’t explain my sudden urge to dress up in a Met uniform and stand outside of SNY studios with a little bucket on a tripod collecting money for Mets Debt Relief.

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

by brooklynlou on Dec 14, 2011 1:59 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

"Japan Relief Fund"

Japan Picard Relief Fund

__________________________________________________________________
Really good kid.A very good player.Not a superstar. #BlameWilponz. Never Forget

by ScottfromPeekskill on Dec 14, 2011 5:40 PM EST up reply actions  

how about

“a dollar donation to the fan ownershiip fund to see fred’s head” and his head is in the bucket

by nynjmetsfan on Dec 14, 2011 5:52 PM EST up reply actions  

"Don't go pulling our Dickey!

Donate to save R.A. and the Mets."

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.

by Steve Schreiber on Dec 14, 2011 6:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Mets fans, after an offseason of searching, we'd like to introduce

The best backup catcher and starting pitcher the Mets money could buy

Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?

by KeithsMoustache on Dec 14, 2011 10:00 PM EST up reply actions  

all of these numbers make my head hurt

"Anybody with ability can play in the big leagues. But to be able to trick people year in and year out the way I did, I think that was a much greater feat." -Bob Uecker
"Who is the girl in the dugout, with the long hair? What's going on here? You have got to be kidding me. Only player personnel in the dugout. I won't say that women belong in the kitchen, but they don't belong in the dugout." -Kieth Hernandez

by metman726 on Dec 14, 2011 2:38 PM EST reply actions  

Nice work

__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden

by Russ on Dec 14, 2011 3:25 PM EST reply actions  

Wanted: New Owner

I think we all know that this will only end when a new owner emerges. We should put on our thinking caps as to who might be a good choice. Virtually unlimited wealth, of course, but also we need someone who is a long-term player with an absolute revulsion at losing…sort of in the mold of the late Steve Jobs….

Helps a ton if he/she (come on, now, it could be a girl) is a New Yorker…

by Jim Pharo on Dec 14, 2011 3:30 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

My head hurts now.

Seriously, some great work/explanations Dan and acerimusdux.
Being no expert, I’m probably not following all but I did pick up on the suggestion on the points concerning why it might be a good idea if the Mets didn’t show any profit for the next few years.

Ugh.

by MetsFan4Decades on Dec 14, 2011 4:23 PM EST reply actions  

wow this is a good fanpost

from a fanpost perspective at least, b/c in reality its quite terrible. well done dan, though. quite impressive!

metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?

by dabu7 on Dec 14, 2011 5:20 PM EST reply actions  

Know we all know what it is like to be Islander Fans.

__________________________________________________________________
Really good kid.A very good player.Not a superstar. #BlameWilponz. Never Forget

by ScottfromPeekskill on Dec 14, 2011 5:41 PM EST reply actions  

No you don't.

"Let them be stud muffins"
-Tom Seaver

by piazza62 on Dec 14, 2011 5:51 PM EST up reply actions  

I already knew, I already knew

Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?

by KeithsMoustache on Dec 14, 2011 10:01 PM EST up reply actions  

I Look At It This Way

The Wilpons have one business that is making money — SNY. And two losers — the Mets and real estate — that are losers through some combination between bad management, bad luck and global economic trends.

For the Mets, the new stadium meant a big increase in costs — debt service — but should have meant a big increase in revenues. But the team went downhill, in part because the Mets were among the last teams to realize the post-steroids reality that the farm matters and and that big contracts for long term stars are risky. The very New York practice of deferring costs and advancing revenues through borrowing didn’t help.

So the question was, could SNY carry the real estate and the Mets until they turned around. Then Madoff happened.

by WT Economist on Dec 14, 2011 6:30 PM EST reply actions  

Viewpoint Of A Financially (and possibly generally) Illiterate Person

Much of this did not make sense to me. Particularly the analysis of SNY’s revenues and how that may affect our ability to re-sign prima-dona shortstops and remain solvent on our obligations towards Venezuelan pitchers with damaged arms.

One thing that is clear, is that the Wilpons are basically really, really wealthy versions of dope-freaks who ask their dealer to “front ’em somethin” till whatever crazy arse s**t they have schemed up comes through.

Sandy is their wise cousin from the sticks who takes it all in stride

by Ball Four on Dec 14, 2011 8:30 PM EST reply actions  

Carlos Beltran does indeed work at S&P, as I've attested to in the past

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 14, 2011 11:00 PM EST up reply actions  

If The Mets sold away part of SNY

That would be horrible for the future of the franchise.

What Would Matt Szczur Do?
Fact on Villanova Sports

by Hoyadestroya85 on Dec 14, 2011 10:46 PM EST reply actions  

why

it’s not like they weren’t successful before SNY.

Let’s face it, they tried to copy the Yankees, and fucked themselves in the process.

One day, this team is going to kill me.

by fxcarden on Dec 24, 2011 10:12 PM EST up reply actions  

How so?

The programming may suck but SNY makes them money.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place

by Ogre39666 on Dec 25, 2011 12:01 AM EST up reply actions  

They've also got $450 million of debt that was taken to start SNY, which is due in like 2014 or 15.

So there’s that.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.

by Steve Schreiber on Dec 25, 2011 1:07 AM EST up reply actions  

thank you

probably went like this……

“oh the Yankees have a network, we should have one too”
“lets borrow some money against our fake money”
“yeah good idea”

and the rest is history

One day, this team is going to kill me.

by fxcarden on Dec 25, 2011 12:03 PM EST up reply actions  

It was back in '06 though.

They didn’t have many financial concerns then.
I’m not an economics guy but Forbes values the Wilpons’ 60% share of SNY to be worth $1.3 billion. They might be illiquid but they made money.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place

by Ogre39666 on Dec 25, 2011 12:45 PM EST up reply actions  

and don't forget the Mets still owe monies to Jason Nay and

bobby Bonilla

"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"

by feslenraster on Dec 24, 2011 6:57 PM EST reply actions  

I have a feeling

a few of us will be able to teach a class in sports business by the time the Mets are competitive again.

Dear friends, please temporarily stop your footsteps To our website Walk
around A look at Maybe you’ll find happiness in your sight shopping heaven and earth You’ll find our price is more suitable for you.

by Coolpapabell on Dec 28, 2011 11:05 PM EST reply actions  

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