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Seth Smith? Why? He's So Average.


The Mets keep popping up in trade rumors for the Rockies' left fielder Seth Smith. His acquisition would make for a strange fit on many levels.

First, there's the question of where he would play. It's an obvious one, but why trade for a player at a position that is pretty much filled? Is there some thing we're missing about our corner outfielders?

Yes, Jason Bay hasn't been good. He hasn't managed to be above average in two years now. If he can't manage to be an average defender in the corner outfield, he is not a candidate for center field.

If the team is treating him as a sunk cost and is ready to move on, then perhaps it would make sense to get a young, cost-controlled corner outfielder for the future. Lucas Duda can barely play his corner outfield position, he couldn't handle both corners. Brandon Nimmo is the big hope for center field, and the last big hope for center field, Kirk Nieuwenhuis, doesn't look like he has a bat for the corners. At least not while he's striking out more than a quarter of the time. Cesar Puello is in high-A ball and can't take a walk. Maybe there's a need here.

Is Smith the one to fill it?

Star-divide

By most measures, Smith has been above-average with the bat in every year in the bigs -- but not all. Once you weight his runs created and take his home ballpark into account, his 2010 was below average (98 wRC+). And while the rest of his ledger shows offense that's 10% above league average, the package doesn't come without flaws.

Smith has a heavy platoon split. His wRC+ against righties is 125. Against lefties, that number plummets to 47. It's only come in 239 plate appearances, and typically you'd want to regress that split towards the league average until he's accrued about 1000 PAs against both hands. But! Couldn't we add in the 300 or so PAs in the high minor leagues where he was bad against southpaws too? He didn't once slug above .400 against lefties above High-A ball.

So he's about three-quarters of a quality bat. His defense in left field is about scratch -- 1.4 UZR/150 over 2569 innings -- so he's not going to be a plus or a minus with the glove.

That's why he's spent the last two years being almost perfectly average (3.4 WAR over two years, 2 WAR is about average).

He walks at an average rate (8.6% last year, 8.1% was average). He strikes out at an average rate (17.4%, 18.6% was average). He reaches a little more than the average rate (32.2% O-Swing %, 30.6% was average). He makes contact slightly less than average (78.5%, 80.7% was average). He's stolen some bases, but his career speed score (5.8) is just above average (5.0), and Bill James projects him to be average with the wheels next year. Whatever pop he has (.200 ISO last year, .144 was average) he gives back with the platoon split on some level. It's, you know, average.

At 29 years old, he's not about to get better. In fact, his best days are probably behind him. If he was a scratch defender, bad defense could be on the way. If the wheels erode, and the contact skills slip just a little bit, he will fail to be any better than an average player for the third straight year in 2012.

An average player has value, especially when you're unsure you can field an average corner bat with the options at hand. But Smith is also entering his final three arbitration seasons, and he puts up the good batting averages that arbitrators like. He's slated to make just short of three million dollars this year, and his value last year by WAR was just under ten million dollars. By 2013, he won't be much of a bargain any more, and the other Mets outfielders will be close to the majors.

Seth Smith is okay. Average even. But, unless he's paired with Wilin Rosario, and probably a pitching prospect, he isn't a great trade target for the Mets. Even then, if the pitching prospect could be better if the Mets didn't take Smith, that would be a better idea.

Two years ago, Jason Bay had a terrible season. He was worth .2 WAR less than Smith. Last year, Jason Bay had a terrible season, He was worth 1.2 WAR less than Smith. Is that win worth trading for?

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It looks more like the Rockies are pushing him to the Mets.

They aren’t going to get the Nose in return.

In lobby for: Jaime Cevallos, Zack Lutz, orange unis and Rickroll as the 7th inning song.
The Unwritten Rules of AA

by Michkin on Dec 22, 2011 3:24 PM EST reply actions  

If he was a FA and willing to sign for whatever his arb salary will be

than it’s a good move to have him as an insurance policy on Bay’s bat and Duda’s glove. Giving up Niese or really any of our cheap young guys is silly.

by FrancoTAU on Dec 22, 2011 3:30 PM EST reply actions  

Depending on the price

Anyone could be “worth trading for.” Let’s forget about Niese; there’s virtually zero chance Sandy and co. would trade Niese if Smith were the centerpiece of a trade (rather than a throw-in). But let’s say the price were, say, Justin Turner, just to throw out a name. The Mets would be trading from a position where they arguably have depth (in that they have Murphy, as well as Havens and Valdespin waiting in the wings, and even Satin available to play in a pinch) and getting a decent OF and lefty bat. I can’t imagine they really see Smith as starter material – even if Bay is benched, Kirk would likely be next in line, assuming he’s healthy – but Smith would fill what’s currently something of a void on the team (decent major-league caliber lefty bench bat).

by dontstopbelieving on Dec 22, 2011 3:35 PM EST reply actions  

A platoon with Bay

seems highly unlikely but would prevent his 2014 option from vesting.

LIke dontsop says it depends on the other half of the deal and what the other puzzle pieces are. If there’s a Duda deal out there that gives us a stud catching prospect+ then this deal is meant to be coupled with that and maybe it makes more sense . . . or if by some miracle the Rox think Bay will flourish at Coors and will take him + $25m of the $35m owed him . . .

Hard to get too worked up about every rumor that floats by given how so few seem to be rooted in much more than the imagination of a sportswriter or two especially without knowing what we’d give up.

by cpins on Dec 22, 2011 3:52 PM EST reply actions  

Knowing the Mets history with trades

Bay probably would head to Denver and hit 35 HRs. It would be nice to save some of that money though.

by enigma2029 on Dec 22, 2011 6:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Fine by me

He can hit 135 in Denver and if it means we’ve shed his contract, great!

by JJJ on Dec 22, 2011 7:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Seth Smith vs. RHP in 2011: wRC+ 130, Jason Bay vs. LHP in 2011: wRC+ 156

This would not only ensure Bay’s contract would not vest for 2014, but it would give the Mets a very strong platoon in LF.

by Ari Berkowitz on Dec 23, 2011 6:17 AM EST up reply actions  

How credible are said rumors?

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 22, 2011 5:36 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

To be fair to Smith

He has 1072 at bats versus righties and just 213 versus lefties. The Rockies mismanage players and then dump them for pennies (Iannetta) so maybe we can get Smith for F-mart.

Astro Travellin'

by BlackOps on Dec 22, 2011 7:11 PM EST reply actions  

Smith won’t hit as good in NY as he did in Denver, and 29 years old is not like he is 23, only the best outfielders stay good after 29, because they are not as fast as they were at 23, but a lot smarter than they were at 23, maybe Duda’s defence as not as good, but he is learning, Look at Bay, he was good, but when we got him, he got too old, and thats what happened, same will be with Smith, Smith could be a great fil in, or a platoon, or a pinch hitter, but he can’t be a good everyday player

by SteveKiev11 on Dec 23, 2011 1:22 AM EST reply actions  

Rosario

Any Niese deal with the Rockies will almost certainly be built around C Willin Rosario, one of the top C prospects in Baseball, probably a AAA season away from being major-league ready and just a slight notch below D´Arnaud and on a similar level to Grandal with better defense but maybe more questions regarding his hitting.

Of course, Niese for Rosario straight up is too little, so there´d have to be other useful pieces coming the Mets way. Seth Smith could be someone of interest. Same for Eric Young jr.. Probably an arm as well. Maybe the Mets would throw in players to create roster space. DJ Carrasco´s salary or someone like Justin Turner who could be a valuable bench guy for COL.

I´d certainly consider major trade like this:

To COL:
LHP Jon Niese
RHP Bobby Parnell
RHP DJ Carrasco
IF Justin Turner

To NYM:
C Willin Rosario
OF Seth Smith
RHP Alex White
IF-OF Eric Young jr.
plus toolsy OF Kyle Parker who doesn´t need to be protected on the 40-man roster for another year

Rockies get immediate help for 2012 through 2015.
Mets get players who they can control through at least 2017 – plus a nice trade chip in Smith.

That´s the likely structure of a possible deal with COL, imho.

by Doob on Dec 24, 2011 2:46 AM EST reply actions  

no EY jr please

otherwise that’s an interesting deal

"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"

by feslenraster on Dec 24, 2011 7:05 PM EST up reply actions  

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