A Mets Fan's Christmas List

by Matthew Artus on Dec 23, 2011 12:01 PM EST

Dear Santa,

I don't need any more coal.

The precarious financial situation paralyzing the New York Mets has provided more than enough black gold to keep all of Metsopotamia warm for decades. If there were ever a time to reward the weary fans with some Christmas cheer, this year would be it.

It turned out the 2011 Hump was really just the tip of an iceberg which could sink the team's postseason aspirations for years to come. We already watched Jose Reyes flee to the Miami Marlins and most recently Carlos Beltran to the St. Louis Cardinals. We don't expect to see much of Johan Santana in 2012, and don't know if we want to see any of Jason Bay in the interim. But hey, the bullpen's looking pretty good!

The previous management has made us grow accustomed to finding new presents under the tree on a yearly basis, from Mike Hampton to Beltran to Bay and everyone in between. It's a bad habit we need to shake, but that hardly means we don't need any gifts this year.

So on behalf of Mets fans everywhere, here's a plea for a few nice things for Mets fans to find under their tree come Sunday:

The Bottom. Ever since Mets fans learned the name of Bernie Madoff, we've watched the ownership's finances flounder in a downward spiral with no end in sight. I know it's likely past the point where the Wilpons could voluntarily sell and presume that they'll only go if the club is pried from their cold, dead hands by MLB or bankruptcy. But it would be nice to reach the point where it actually couldn't get worse. It would help to not see Sandy Alderson constantly revise the payroll projections because the team's diminishing finances force him. I don't know if Mets fans really want to know what rock bottom looks like, but I do know we're all exhausted from being in free fall for so long.
A Home for Daniel Murphy. There's a lot to like about Murphy, whose coming off a solid year and showing a bit of power at the plate. I'd just like him more if he could stay healthy enough to give us a real sample of his defensive capabilities at second base. His bat looks even better there than the other spots the Mets have stuck him, but he hasn't been good enough defensively to definitively fill in a hole on the diamond. Second base might very well be his last shot at becoming a starter instead of a super sub, but I hope he sticks here instead of at a new home in another ballpark someday.
A Bucked Trend for Bay. We all know what Jason Bay accomplished before Omar Minaya signed him in his last foray into free agency as Mets general manager. Unfortunately, we also know what he's done since -- two subpar seasons with a complete disappearance of his power. The redesigned walls at Citi Field will hopefully help that a bit, but two seasons of futility is a heck of a sample size and I'd really rather not see it get to three in fear of seeing another player get the Oliver Perez treatment.
The Anti-Ollie. Speaking of Perez, could you make sure Mike Pelfrey doesn't end up that way, either? I've given up hope that the Mets' 2011 Opening Day starter will ever resemble an All Star on the mound, but could we knock it off with the epic implosions for the guy? He's not doing anything wildly different except alternating years in which he ponies up fly balls, but we keep hearing about some magical second pitch or his sinking fastball not sinking or GEEZ... IS HE AGGRAVATING OR WHAT?!?
A No Hitter. If 2012 turns out to be the rebuilding year that no one in the Mets' marketing department wants us to think it is, we're going to be rooting for individual achievements as much as we pray for the team's success. Rooting for Reyes winning the batting title made September baseball in Flushing a bit more worthwhile, but there's one achievement we want more than that and that, deep down, no Mets fan wants to miss. Wouldn't it be great if the R.A. Dickey knuckleball was perfect for a night, or Jon Niese put an exclamation point on a breakout season with a no-no? Come on, Santa. We're due.
A Banner Day on Banner Day. I get that Banner Day has felt at times like a cause célèbre for Mets bloggers on a slow news day, but it really can be a great thing if done well. There is a charm in seeing fans expressing themselves with signs draped around the ballpark or carried through the stands, even if it might look like an elementary school art show to some. It was the running commentary at Shea Stadium once, and could make for it once again at Citi Field if the fans who pleaded for it so vociferously actually show up and make it a day to remember with a marked-up bed sheet and a professed love of the Mets.
A New Name on the Marquee. We keep hearing about the promising prospects of the likes of Matt Harvey or Jeurys Familia, but it would be nice to see one of them stop plying their trade at Binghamton or Buffalo and start plowing through the Majors with reckless abandon. I'm not saying they should be rushed or put on the spot, but there'll be ample opportunities to experiment with a near-ready prospect at the Major League level this season if guys we pencil in to the Opening Day lineup can't hack it or stay healthy long term. Wouldn't it be great if this is the year Fernando Martinez finally puts it together, or Reese Havens stays healthy long enough to take the second base job for good?
A World Series Trophy. If you don't ask, you'll never get it.

Thanks, Santa. Safe travels up and down all those chimneys this weekend, and pace yourself with those cookies. And if you could also give a look to the wish list or revisions to mine left below in the comments, I'd appreciate that, too.

Give our regards to the Missus. Happy Holidays!

Matt

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Comments

A great point you made

It would help to not see Sandy Alderson constantly revise the payroll projections because the team’s diminishing finances force him.

I didn’t realize it when at the time, but that’s a spectacular point. The best evidence we have that things are actually progressively worsening is that Alderson’s budget keeps shrinking, as if he didn’t know that the money wasn’t going to be there.

Learn something new every day: http://dlewis.net/nik

by Dan Lewis on Dec 23, 2011 12:08 PM EST reply actions

Or they knew how bad things were

but they didn’t want to admit it at the time, deciding to do so in increments instead. It was reported last year that the Mets payroll would be cut down to 95 million, and the Mets laughed it off, said no way. Now after months of revisions, that’s exactly where we seem to be.

And I don’t buy the idea that poor Sandy had no idea about any of this. Him and Selig knew what the Mets finances were when they offered him this job. It’s not like gain anything by keeping him in the dark. And frankly, he’s had his own part in this bullshit too; for instance, saying that he expected the Mets payroll to be 100-110 milion, but then weeks later admitting that he was including draft bonuses in that figure, which drops it another 10 million bucks. Nobody includes draft signings in their payroll figure. They knew, they just didn’t want to admit it. Doesn’t change how hard Sandy’s job will be, of course.

"I only wanted a few things out of life -- a wife, children, to play baseball and to hunt deer." - Turk Wendell

by Rey-O on Dec 23, 2011 12:47 PM EST up reply actions

You keep harping on this, and it still reeks of a bad conspiracy theory

I will agree that all parties involved knew that the Mets finances were in bad shape back in January, a year ago. We knew this too.

That’s why, midseason, or whenever it was during the season, we heard that finances were going to drop to a projected $100-100 million dollars or so, a roughly 33% payroll decrease. Here at AA, we all anticipated this. Most were floating theoretical 2012 budgets of $100 million to $120 million up until more word of the projected payroll started coming in. As it got closer and closer to the actual off-season, and then the off-season began, we started hearing figures being revised to be closer to the $100 million dollar mark than the $110 million dollar mark, and then slightly under the $100 million dollar mark.

This doesn’t reflect that, a year ago, when he was hired, Alderson (or Selig, or Wilpon) knew that the payroll would be dropping from roughly $140 million dollars to $95 million, let’s say, and that they’ve all known all along, but decided to let everyone down slowly. More accurately, it reflects that it was known by the relevant individuals that payroll was going to go down, but that the figure gets adjusted as new financial information about the Mets/Wilpons/SNY/whatever comes in. How would the relevant people know that payroll would need to be dropped to $95 million dollars in order to cover operational costs and pay back however much debt the Wilpons/Mets are paying back back in January 2011? January 2011 is before the season began, when all sorts of litigation hearings were still pending, when the state of the economy was different, state and federal politics were different, before the 2011 season had ended and all of the revenue from ads, tickets, merchandise, concessions, parking, etc. were counted out and weighed against operational costs to determine profits, and so on. While the organization, and as such, Alderson when he was hired, would not have been blindsided by the difference in available money when the season began, and the present, it would have had to be amended and modified as new figures were calculated. And, that’s exactly what has happened. Theoretical revenues can be projected, but until they’re actually calculated after everything is said and done, they’re still just projections. When everything was said and done, and those projected finances were calculated definitively and smoothed out. A theoretical September that did not see the Mets sell enough tickets/merchandise/concessions/parking to cover operational costs, and as such, leave them with a theoretical net loss instead of a theoretical net gain, the money needs to be recovered by the owners somehow, and less money invested is how they do it, in this case. There’s no way, in May, for anyone to know that, in September/October, the team is going to run into a net loss, and have to cover those expenses by investing less money in the future.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 23, 2011 2:18 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs

Even after all this was reported

They were still doing damage control.
This is at the end of the season;

Alderson: I haven’t found it to be the obstacle that most believe it to be. It doesn’t necessarily limit our ability to spend money. Whether our payroll is at $120 million next year or $110 million, it’s not because of anything Madoff-related. It’s because we need to get a better balance between the revenues we generate and the expenses we incur.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/mets/q-a-with-mets-gm-alderson-1.3203320

Three weeks ago, November 30th - “The bottom line is this: Alderson has acknowledged the Mets’ payroll will be between $100 million and $110 million in 2012.”

And then he reveals that this numbers was taking into account amateur draft bonuses included. Even you have to acknowledge that is incredibly shady, and that weak tactic itself should make you question his payroll numbers. When have you EVER heard someone include draft bonuses along with their expected payroll? Psychologically, 100 million bucks is the threshold which they didn’t want to admit dipping under, so for that reason he BS’ed to keep it above that mark..

And frankly, what’s changed in the past few months? I’m not sure why you say no one predicted the Mets would be running at a loss; it was reported at the beginning of the season that the Mets were expecting to lose 70 million bucks in 2011 (http://www.inquisitr.com/108534/the-new-york-mets-may-lose-70-million-dollars-in-2011/) …and they did. As far as the Maddoff situation, it didn’t get any worse, and in fact got better, because the judge ruled in their favor and they don’t have to worry about giving paying out too much on the high side. They had a deal worked out with Einhorn, and then nixed it once this favorable decision came their way. It’s not like there was an unexpected loss for them, or some horrible ruling against them in the Maddoff trial that made them drop 30 million bucks in payroll expectations since September 30th. It’s basic PR, but it seems people want to pretend like Alderson would be 100% honest with the fans, and it must be the mean Wilpons who are making him revise his figures.

Fact is, we’ve been having this discussion for a while now. You posted your article about how the Mets had enough money for Jose Reyes a long time ago, and I disagreed. It’s not because I’m a fortune teller, but because I didn’t trust the numbers that the Mets were throwing out there. I don’t think Sandy ever through the payroll would be 130-150 million as he first said, or 120, or even 110. I mean, he was still throwing 110 out there in the beginning of November. They just didn’t want to admit what was painfully obvious to everyone else.

And I’m not saying Sandy is a bad guy or has done a bad job. I can’t think of really anything I’d do differently. The Mets have no business spending money right now, so sitting tight and signing players to one year deals is the way to go. But I’m also not going to hold my hands over my eyes and think that poor Sandy is being tricked by the Wilpons, or actually has to revise his projections every month, just because I happen to like the guy.

"I only wanted a few things out of life -- a wife, children, to play baseball and to hunt deer." - Turk Wendell

by Rey-O on Dec 23, 2011 3:05 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs

How does any of that confirm your claim that Alderson knew ahead of time that the Mets would be running with a sub $100 million dollar payroll when he was hired back in January?

The only thing that you point at is the fact that payroll projections have changed since September, since October, since November, since a few weeks ago. No doubt, plenty of projected payroll revisions have occurred: We had projected numbers narrowed down the payroll numbers to around $100-110 million dollars as the 2011 season was winding down and the off-season was beginning. Reports then pegged them as being closer to $100 million dollars than $110 million dollars. Then we find out that of that closer to $100 million dollar figure includes other monetary allotments, so in reality, it’s closer to say, $95 million dollars. How does the fact that projected payroll figures have changed support your claim?

We have two situations:

(A) When Sandy Alderson was hired, he was briefed by the owners and anyone else important to financial going-ons that, because of their financial situation, the payroll would be no higher than X (whatever it winds up actually being), and to not cause incendiary reactions among the fanbase and the media, they conspired to slowly release bits and pieces of the fact, as to let people down slowly instead of ripping the band-aid off.

(B) When Sandy Alderson was hired, he was briefed by the owners and owners and anyone else important to financial going-ons that, because of their financial situation, the payroll would be Y (whatever was wanted at the time). Like any other business, only so much can be projected a year, a half year, however long in advance. As the season came to a conclusion, and projected profits were calculated against projected losses, the profit column was not as large as officials wanted it (or needed it) to be. As a result, funds that would have been allocated for the 2012 payroll are used elsewhere to cover financial losses. These projections get refined as time passes, leading to figures that have variations in them from projection to projection. Having been the treasurer of a school club for a few months, I can attest that this happens. When our group first went to the Student Activities Board, we were told that $500 would be allotted to our club. When the money finally was given to us about three weeks later, we only got $350 dollars because that was all that was in the budget for us.

The more likely hypothesis is the one that makes they fewest assumptions and isn’t unnecessarily complex. Your hypothesis is unnecessarily complex- you are assigning conspiratorial motives to a relatively large group of people (that somehow wasn’t leaked, in whole or in part, to the media despite this conspiracy existing for about an entire year until sprung on the public) that doesn’t take into account the varying economic conditions that unfolded around the team as the year went by (as in, if the team made a surprise run at playoff contention, and/or the Einhorn deal went through, and/or the various lawsuits that are pending against the Wilpons had different rulings, would the ~$100 million dollar payroll limit that was imposed in your scenario at the beginning of the year before the year even started still be in play).

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 23, 2011 8:39 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs

Suggesting the Mets are playing the PR game with their payroll is not unnecessarily complex nor conspiratorial

It’s a simple, common business decision. Fred Wilpon said he expected the team to lose about 70 million bucks about 8 months ago, and they did. It’s not a “conspiracy” to say that the rest of the front office was aware of these figures, and planned accordingly. Do you really believe the Mets were projecting themselves for 70 million dollar losses, but Sandy was thinking that the payroll would be 130-150 million bucks a year?

The Mets simply did not want to acknowledge that their payroll would be under 100 million bucks. That’s the line that they thought would be unpalatable to fans. Sandy saying he could not imagine that the payroll would be less than 100-110 million, and later amending that to include the amateur draft is probably the most telling aspect of that. He didn’t want to say, “Yeah, we’ll be at 90-95 million this year”, so he says “Yeah, we’ll be at 100-110 million, including the amateur draft and in season dealings”. That’s a pathetically weak attempt to inflate the numbers. At least admit that much.

"I only wanted a few things out of life -- a wife, children, to play baseball and to hunt deer." - Turk Wendell

by Rey-O on Dec 23, 2011 9:19 PM EST up reply actions

The Mets, in May 24, 2011, when that article was published, could have lost $70 million dollars

They could have also, after May 24, 2011, gone on a strong run that generated added interest, resulting in more merchandise sales, ticket sales, concession sales, parking fees, etc., increasing the net profits the team was taking back- an additional 4,000 fans on average at the 70 home games that took place after May 24th, following the formula provided in that article, nets an additional $14 million dollars. Is an additional $14 million dollars enough to erase a deficit that existed in the tens of millions of dollars? No. It is, however, a sizable amount, and the possible infusion of $14 million dollars contributes to the point I am trying to make: These finances do not exist in static. Say there were an additional 4,000 fans, generating an additional $14 million dollars in revenue. If that added money came into existence, would the team still have to stick to their pre-2011 season 2012 budget plans you are saying everyone met and drafted? The Einhorn deal goes through, and they have an additional $40 million lets say. If that added money came into existence, would the team still have to stick to their pre-2011 season 2012 budget plans you are saying everyone met and drafted? The Einhorn deal goes through, and the Mets do better than expected, generating that additional $14 million dollars, coming to a grand total of an additional $56 million dollars. If that added money came into existence, would the team still have to stick to their pre-2011 season 2012 budget plans you are saying everyone met and drafted?

Sandy was incorrect when he said he didn’t think those extraneous things would affect the team in a substantial way, but he is absolutely correct when he said, “I think it depends on what happens with the lawsuit. I think it depends on what happens with the sale to a minority participant. I think there are a lot of things that have some impact, positive or negative, going forward.”.

In the non-static financial climate that the Mets operate in (like any business that fluctuates), it doesn’t make as much sense to say that, before the year began, the Mets projected their net gains and net losses to get a sense of how much they might stand to lose, and enact a damage control plan (letting everyone down gradually, in terms of what the payroll is) before allowing those projections to actually happen (games get played, selling actual tickets, merchandise, concessions, parking, etc.) adjusting accordingly. That’s not to say that things came as a complete surprise to anyone- that’s what the financial projections are for. A projection made in January 2011 isn’t going to end up being as accurate as a projection made in August 2011, based on the simple fact that a great deal is happening in the period in-between.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 23, 2011 10:56 PM EST up reply actions

I don't think theres any way Selig didn't know what state the mets finances were in back in mid/late 2010

and from that it’s hard to imagine Sandy wasn’t informed.

one does not simply walk into mordor...unless winter is coming

by Gina on Dec 24, 2011 1:22 AM EST up reply actions

Nobody is saying that the poor financial state of the Mets came as a complete surprise to everyone

As was linked, in May the team was projecting to lose around $70 million dollars as things stood then. There is quite a difference between knowing you are in a poor financial state, and before anything is said and done, creating an payroll ceiling based on those projections before the season began, and sticking too them throughout the year regardless, and knowing you are in a poor financial state, and adjusting accordingly as the projections turn into actual profits and actual losses as the year goes on.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 24, 2011 9:46 AM EST up reply actions

I disagree entirely

there’s absolutely no way a competent large buisness, especially one with as many fixed costs as the mets, should not be able to forecast and plan multiple years in the future. Outside of external shocks nothing that happen’s in season financially should have come as a surprise, except maybe them convincing another financial institution to actually give them a loan. There’s no reason their payroll projections for this 2012 in November 2011 should differ drastically from payroll projections for 2012 in November 2010, once again barring external shocks which they didn’t have. The only variables would likely be on the profit in terms of attendance end and even those they could estimate fairly reasonable since they should know how much profit they should make per attendant. Nothing has happened in the last year and a half, to justify drastically different payroll estimates. No external shocks that I can think of happened to justify them suddenly cutting their payroll projections and in fact what happened is just what they predicted to happen. So if they were predicting 70 million in losses in March and that’s the result seen then there’s no reason their payroll prediction should fluctuate.

one does not simply walk into mordor...unless winter is coming

by Gina on Dec 24, 2011 10:45 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs

forecast accurately I should say

and given the lack of shocks the only explanation for the cut in payroll estimates is that they were overoptimistic/lying in March. If they expected to lose 70 million, and they did, then they should have based their payroll prediction of that, which they apparently didn’t. And there’s very very very few legitimate explanations for that.

one does not simply walk into mordor...unless winter is coming

by Gina on Dec 24, 2011 10:47 AM EST up reply actions

also

How would the relevant people know that payroll would need to be dropped to $95 million dollars in order to cover operational costs and pay back however much debt the Wilpons/Mets are paying back back in January 2011? January 2011 is before the season began, when all sorts of litigation hearings were still pending, when the state of the economy was different, state and federal politics were different, before the 2011 season had ended and all of the revenue from ads, tickets, merchandise, concessions, parking, etc. were counted out and weighed against operational costs to determine profits, and so on.

they would know because this is literally what entire sections of buisnesses, are paid to predict and know. Virtually no change has happened in the state of the economy, or in current federal or state level policies so theres zero excuse for them to have not factored that in. When you run a buisness, especially one on the size of Sterling and the Mets and SNY, those are just basic things you should always know. Or be able to reasonable predict. This is essentially what finance, and economics “workers” exist to do. Even down to the revenue they could expect from tickets,ads,concessions, ad contracts for example are decided on years in advance so nothing new would have come from that. Attendance predictions are simple and generally fairly accurate. None of those things you listed are things that a well run business wouldn’t be expected to know in January 2011. In fact they would have been expected to know them in July 2010. And like I said above nearly every operational cost is fixed, and the amount of debt owed is and has been fixed and the mets knew back in 2010 that they were well above MLB debt limits, and they knew what they were paying on those debts and what they owed, they should have known that in 2009, and that financial institutions were giving them junk bond status.

For them to not know, or at least have a reasonably accurate estimate, on all those things you listed would mean gross incompetence and that the mets front office is in ten times worse shape than we thought and they should probably just be taken over by the league. Also this is why sports teams are considered such no brainer investments because, once again barring external shocks none of which have occurred in the last 3 years, everything is absurdly easy to gauge and predict months and even years in advance.

one does not simply walk into mordor...unless winter is coming

by Gina on Dec 24, 2011 11:07 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs

Mindset

I more or less agree with as well. They should have had those revenues and budget projected out at least a year in advance. Things can change you didn’t count on (like the Mets going to the WS…) but on average the flucuation should have been in the ballpark of projections.

Either that, or they’re truly delusional and had their fingers crossed revenues would be up in 2011.

by MetsFan4Decades on Dec 24, 2011 2:48 PM EST up reply actions

This doesn't particularly discredit what I was saying

The two scenarios are: Mets project finances into the future using available resources and decide on a drastically low salary cap before the 2011 season begins for the 2012 season, and stick to it regardless of what transpires during the 2011 season, or Mets project finances into the future using available resources, foresee losses, and have those losses confirmed when the accounting is done, modifying future payroll accordingly as time passes, to account for increased/decreased attendance revenue in relation to what was expected, new business deals, and the various other variables that occur during the season.

(Federal or state policies that have been in debate could have influenced things: Continually ongoing on the federal level is the continued renewal of the Bush Tax Cuts. In New York State, the ’Millionaire’s Tax’ would have increased or decreased their state taxes by 2%.)

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 24, 2011 6:34 PM EST up reply actions

like what the do at the airports

they give the flight delays in 15 minute increments so you don’t get pissed when they say an hour right off the bat

"Anybody with ability can play in the big leagues. But to be able to trick people year in and year out the way I did, I think that was a much greater feat." -Bob Uecker
"Who is the girl in the dugout, with the long hair? What's going on here? You have got to be kidding me. Only player personnel in the dugout. I won't say that women belong in the kitchen, but they don't belong in the dugout." -Kieth Hernandez

by metman726 on Dec 23, 2011 3:30 PM EST up reply actions

I just want new ownership for Festivus

That’s all.

__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden

by Russ on Dec 23, 2011 12:11 PM EST reply actions 2 recs

When a bell rings

@JavaJoeX

by JavaJoe on Dec 23, 2011 12:20 PM EST reply actions 15 recs

this is awesome

by BurleighGrimes on Dec 23, 2011 12:43 PM EST up reply actions

Ha!

Green’d

by MetsFan4Decades on Dec 24, 2011 2:49 PM EST up reply actions

I love you

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf. "

– Tug McGraw when asked about his preference for grass or astroturf

by Terry_is_God on Dec 24, 2011 3:10 PM EST up reply actions

Santa sez

I already gave you Sandy F*cking Alderson, replacing “The Contest” GM. What more could you possibly want? There is only so much I can do. Now get off my ~~lawn~~ iceberg!

In lobby for: Jaime Cevallos, Zack Lutz, orange unis and Rickroll as the 7th inning song.
The Unwritten Rules of AA

by Michkin on Dec 23, 2011 12:26 PM EST reply actions

All I want for Christmas....

New ownership, with money to spend

by Neutral Density on Dec 23, 2011 1:05 PM EST reply actions 1 recs

i want

to rec via the app. oh and win/2b permanent residence for the hammer/wins

I hate Philadelphia so much.

by the caveman on Dec 23, 2011 1:38 PM EST via Android app reply actions

Is it too much to ask for Bud Selig to sell the Mets and gift the Phillies to the Wilpons?

by Stephen Schmidt on Dec 23, 2011 2:20 PM EST reply actions

No, I think it is quite justified.

He forced the Rangers and Dodgers owners out, moved a franchise from Canada to Washington after allowing it’s (sleazy) owner to acquire wither franchise and had a hand in the sale of the Astros.

But he is in the Wilpons pocket because they helped him acquire the commisionership and while the Madoff mess is still a steaming pile of shit he isn’t going to force his god buddy’s hand.

We meanwhile, are bent over being ass raped by every team who wants our players.

All I want for Festivus is Wilpons hands off of the Mets. Please Santa Dickey, won’t you make this happen?

__________________________________________________________________
Really good kid.A very good player.Not a superstar. #BlameWilponz. Never Forget

by ScottfromPeekskill on Dec 23, 2011 7:24 PM EST up reply actions

Damnit! Replied to the wrong post.

A Festivus miracle of Selig being dragged off into the woods by 12reindeer isn’t too much too ask is it?

__________________________________________________________________
Really good kid.A very good player.Not a superstar. #BlameWilponz. Never Forget

by ScottfromPeekskill on Dec 23, 2011 7:26 PM EST up reply actions

Who would have thought that, at any given day,

we would have percieved R.A. Dickey to theoretically throw a no-hitter? He’s almost done it twice in two years now.

I remember saying in my 2010 AAOP that I would have signed Dickey because of his name, the knuckleball, and that he would provide bullpen depth as a guy who could constantly be called on, and could even provide a spot start or two. I don’t think I’ve ever been so glad to get it so wrong.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 23, 2011 2:21 PM EST reply actions 3 recs

That's My One Hope For This Year Too

The games to see this year are Dickey games. I used to only go to mid-week day games, when there was less competition for tickets, but this year that might not be a problem.

by WT Economist on Dec 23, 2011 4:32 PM EST up reply actions

I got tickets last season thinking I was going to see Dickey

I didn’t account for an off-day, and saw Gee instead. Gee walked six batters and let the Oakland offense run wild on him. Dickey struck out ten.

Suffice to say, I was pissed off.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 23, 2011 8:42 PM EST up reply actions

In Dickey we trust.

__________________________________________________________________
Really good kid.A very good player.Not a superstar. #BlameWilponz. Never Forget

by ScottfromPeekskill on Dec 23, 2011 2:53 PM EST reply actions

The Bottom

Won’t come until 2014, when everyone is earning less than $5 million, 2/3 of the team is at the major league minimum, and the payroll is under $40 million, perhaps well lower. Because spending more will not be enough to get the Mets better enough to make a difference until 2015.

I stand by what I said — losing Reyes (and the financial problems that made it necessary) set the Mets back two years, from a potential contender in 2013 or 2014, when help might arrive from the minor leagues and dead salaries come off the books, to 2015 at the earliest.

You’re looking at a team that might be trading players to get out of their arbitration years, let alone free agency years. And the Mets won’t be ready to contend until the drafts from the next two or three years are ready to play, not just the past two or three years. That’s for all the years being the only team not to go overslot, and the draft choices lost to sign free agents.

Even contending in 2015 will be a stretch, unless veteran players who aren’t superstars can become the new “market inefficiency” as a few teams chase players like Pujols and Reyes and others are only interested in salary controlled players. Then the Mets can sign a few in the $5 to $10 million range after the current high salary players are off the books and some debt is paid down, or the team is sold.

by WT Economist on Dec 23, 2011 4:31 PM EST reply actions

One More Point

Exempt Bay, Santana and Wright as “legacy players” who are just being carried because they have to be, with their salaries covered by borrowing and selling chunks of the team.

What, then, is the Mets “real” budget excluding these three?

by WT Economist on Dec 23, 2011 4:34 PM EST up reply actions

All I want for Christmas, is a team that doesn't suck.

One day, this team is going to kill me.

by fxcarden on Dec 23, 2011 5:39 PM EST reply actions

We always got the Giants

Wait, scratch that…

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 23, 2011 8:41 PM EST up reply actions

It's gonna be a long weekend at the FX household

Jr. is a Jets fan

Older bro is a Giants fan

They are both going to the game together

One day, this team is going to kill me.

by fxcarden on Dec 23, 2011 8:43 PM EST up reply actions

Older bro needs to beat Jr. up

That’s how I’d handle parenting, anyway.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 23, 2011 9:10 PM EST up reply actions

sounds like fun times lol

my fam is the same way.
I’m a Jets fan.
younger bro is a Giants fan.
And get this….my youngest brother a Cowboys fan.

At least we all agree on the Mets and can see each other thru these troubled times.

sreh ladien e' ta janjia

by Lord Smackington on Dec 23, 2011 10:02 PM EST up reply actions

Two Bald Men

Fighting over a comb.

Especially in the NFC, where three great teams have left the rest behind, as in the 1970s. No one else has a chance.

by WT Economist on Dec 24, 2011 8:44 AM EST up reply actions

Patience

Most of all, I want patience – both for me & fellow Mets fans. Patience and faith that a competent front office will eventually figure out a way to turn this franchise into a consistent winner – and actually a cash cow for whoever owns it. Right now, we´re basically where the Yankees were in the early 1990s. Mostly stupid spending on frontline free agents, always believing “we´re just one player away” has finally stopped. Both times, issues for the respective owners have been the main cause for it.

And while it´d be great if the Wilpons sell tomorrow or are forced out by MLB, I´m expecting the worst and see them sticking around. However, that doesn´t mean that this franchise is doomed because of it. The goal right now has to be building the organization the right way. From bottom up. And from bottom up unfortunately isn´t possible in one or two years but probably takes three to five years – at least. And actually, the financial issues may be a blessing in terms of blame for this hard but necessary procedure not going to Sandy Alderson & Co. but mostly towards the Wilpons. If there was enough money around, sure, Reyes probably returns. But also, there´d be media pressure to sign an expensive CLOSER like Madson or a proven veteran SP like Edwin Jackson to an absurd contract. And not TRAID the coeur but rather TRAID the top prospects for a Gio Gonzalez type – even though Gio G (acquired in a deal for Zack Wheeler, Jeurys Familia and Kirk Nieuwenhuis), Edwin Jackson and Ryan Madson probably wouldn´t be enough to turn this team into a sustainable winner. Yet, the 2012 payroll would be at 125 million $ instead, the farm system somewhat depleted again and the odds that the Mets have to spend again to patch holes on an annual basis would be extremely high.

As it is, 2012 and 2013 probably are re-building years. If the team is more competitive than anticipated because Ike Davis emerges as a stud, Daniel Murphy, Lucas Duda and Ruben Tejada show a lot of grit and the pitchers exceed the modest expectations, great.
However, the key will be building a roster that can take this franchise from 2014 through 2020 and have a team that averages 90 wins per season. Which we had from 1984 through 1990 for those who remember – though it pretty much started falling apart with bad decisions from 1989 on.

Since the other 4 NL East teams are all in “go for it” mode, this opens the chance for the Mets to rebuild the right way with extremely low expectations and be there by 2014 when the Phillies have broken down due to age and salary restrictions, the Marlins have to hold their next fire sale, while the Braves & Nationals may still be good but busy trying to retain their own players, entering the expensive arbitration phase instead of being able to trade for / sign marquee talent from the outside.

Already, the Mets have the deepest farm system in the NL East right now. That trend figures to continue for the next couple of years – until that talent either emerges or gets traded. And at some point, the financial issues will be settled one way or the other.

So, P A T I E N C E is what we´ll need most of all. Oh, and some luck. And peace.

by Doob on Dec 24, 2011 2:27 AM EST reply actions 3 recs

I endorse this sentiment. Merry Christmas.

by Curtis3331 on Dec 24, 2011 11:16 AM EST up reply actions

Rec'd

If there was enough money around, sure, Reyes probably returns. But also, there´d be media pressure to sign an expensive CLOSER like Madson or a proven veteran SP like Edwin Jackson to an absurd contract. And not TRAID the coeur but rather TRAID the top prospects for a Gio Gonzalez type – even though Gio G (acquired in a deal for Zack Wheeler, Jeurys Familia and Kirk Nieuwenhuis), Edwin Jackson and Ryan Madson probably wouldn´t be enough to turn this team into a sustainable winner. Yet, the 2012 payroll would be at 125 million $ instead, the farm system somewhat depleted again and the odds that the Mets have to spend again to patch holes on an annual basis would be extremely high.

This, so much this. It makes the whole fiasco actually bearable. After the cycles of bloat and futility I’m glad that the team is going to suck because it’s rebuilding instead of sucking in spite of its ambitions.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf. "

– Tug McGraw when asked about his preference for grass or astroturf

by Terry_is_God on Dec 24, 2011 3:18 PM EST up reply actions

Or we could have kept Reyes and trust Alderson not to be an idiot?

Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place

by Ogre39666 on Dec 24, 2011 3:28 PM EST up reply actions

Kinda looks like that was never in the cards at this point..

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf. "

– Tug McGraw when asked about his preference for grass or astroturf

by Terry_is_God on Dec 24, 2011 9:04 PM EST up reply actions

I was going off the premise of

Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place

by Ogre39666 on Dec 24, 2011 9:30 PM EST up reply actions

premise of "If there was enough money around".

Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place

by Ogre39666 on Dec 24, 2011 9:31 PM EST up reply actions

Great read Matthew, but one disagreement

I think you’re way off-base on Pelfrey. He doesn’t alternate years where he ponies up flyballs. His FB% has gone up every year since 2007, and what’s worse, his GB% has dipped dramatically in each of the past two seasons. A quick scroll through PitchFX data shows that Pelf simply isn’t putting the ball down. You throw out the “sinker isn’t sinking” line like it’s something a WFAN caller would say…and maybe you’re half right. It’s not that the sinker isn’t sinking. He just isn’t throwing the sinker anymore. His K/9 has also sunk in each of the last two years, signaling that his non-sinker offerings just aren’t Major League worthy. Pelfrey needs to get the ball down in the zone, throw his sinker, and he will get ground balls and become an average pitcher again. That’s all there is to it.

I think when you made the flyball remark you might have meant home runs. Pelf had pretty great luck in 2008 and 2010 with the home run ball, and pretty terrible luck in 2009 and 2011 (though the argument can be made that 2011 was closer to true talent considering his trend towards becoming a flyball pitcher). With all this in mind, he’s probably a 0.5-1 WAR pitcher for next season, and should have been non-tendered. With the money saved from Pelfrey we could have signed Hiroki Kuroda to a fat one-year deal and flipped him for a prospect or two in July.

"F***ing shocker." -Billy Wagner

by nymgb44 on Dec 24, 2011 2:35 AM EST reply actions

Kuroda

Kuroda will probably get at least 10 to 12 million $ for 2012 – thus about twice as much as Pelfrey makes. Also, not sure why Kuroda would head to a projected non-contender.

Pelfrey is what he is. A pedestrian innings gobbler with a hard fastball and the inability to put hitters away due to a lack of quality secondary stuff and a lack of command within the strike zone. Pretty much a # 4 starter. Since he still sits in the 91-96 mph range velocity wise, there´s always the chance he could discover something and improve significantly. However, I´m afraid that´s highly unlikely at this point. Anyway, like Dillon Gee – a much smarter, grittier SP with lesser ability – Pelfrey figures to be a “bridge” SP until the next generation of – hopefully better – Mets SP….

by Doob on Dec 24, 2011 2:54 AM EST up reply actions

Kuroda isn't even sure if he's going to play in the U.S.

He’s received offers from the Hiroshima Toyo Carp, and he’s mulling it.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 24, 2011 9:51 AM EST up reply actions

Shoulnd Selig be conserned that the Mets organization has been used to launder money

for the last 25 years (rhetorical question). The more this goes on I blame Bud solely. The Wilpons are at best fools at worst crooks, I am sure the answer is somewhere in between. If Selig didn’t get so involved with the Dodgers and the precedent hadn’t been set in recent history, I would have less of a problem with him personally.

Just venting. Ill go back to bitching about the Isles

by ATL Jim on Dec 24, 2011 8:45 AM EST reply actions 2 recs