What You Tell Yourself
You would have had to say goodbye to him sometime. You know this.
In another universe, where Fred Wilpon never meets Bernie Madoff and Jeff Loria is a humble art dealer with no sports ambitions, you might have seen him for a few more years. You might have seen him leg out more triples in a Mets uniform, steal some more bases, execute some more joyous steps in the dugout. You would have seen age catch up to him, as it catches up to all athletes, as it catches up to all of us, and you would have seen his legs slow and his bat slow and his game change, and you would see him leave for elsewhere or retire. Even in the sunniest, Panglossian best of all possible worlds, you never could have had him forever. You know this.
Even if the Mets were in decent financial and competitive shape, they'd be unwise to match the contract he's getting. The likelihood of him staying healthy for the duration of that contract, or remaining with one team over those six years, is slim. The new front office regime is imposing the kind of painful but necessary fiscal sanity it should have adopted a long time ago. You know this.
The Mets have benefited from other teams' hard times over the past decade plus. Everyone from Mike Piazza to Johan Santana came here because someone else couldn't afford them. Perhaps it's only fair, only karma, that the Mets lose one every now and then, and decrying another team "buying" a roster would be the height of hypocrisy for you. You know this.
You consider your child, who knows only one baseball player, who thinks everyone with dreads is him, who has chanted his name at the ballpark, who has said to you more than once this offseason that she misses him. But she is still very young, still learning so much about the world and her place in it. She'll get over it. You know this.
You'll get over this too, someday, though the mere thought of this hurts. There is the pain of any loss, and then there is a moment during that pain when you realize time will pass and you will move on, which is a different pain altogether. That you lose people and you think the world is going to crumble without them but life goes on.
You've done it for other people in your life, people who helped raise you, people you couldn't imagine living without, until you had to. So you'll do it for Jose Reyes. You know this.
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Comments
At least 1-2 of the 2013 free agents
Better be in NY Mets uniforms. I’m looking at you cain, ethier, Hamilton, kinsler,haren
by SantonioBurress on Dec 5, 2011 11:17 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Not happening
That is unless the Wilpons sell the team to someone with money and is willing to spend it.
by graves9 on Dec 5, 2011 12:04 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The Wilpons' investments are in NYC real estate.
I wouldn’t worry about their future. I don’t particularly care for them, but when they had money they spent on the team, and they will have money again, probably sooner than later. This was a (goddamn disappointing) liquidity problem, not a harbinger of the Mets turning into the Pirates.
The Wilpons real estate investments are nationwide
Just like this gem.
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
by Russ on Dec 5, 2011 1:28 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
That's if they can hold on to their holdings and pay the loans on their real estate loans,Banks foreclose quickly
on commercial real estate.How much confidence would you have if the Wilponzie empire owed you a billion dollars?
by Putnan Prince on Dec 6, 2011 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
Pretty sure..
….it’s still only Baseball.
It stings now but it’s not the end of the world. I can not have what 25 people do on a baseball field determine the outcome of my life and how it impacts it. Jose wanted the $$ and took it. Can’t blame him.
To all those who will leave and say they’ll never come back because of this, that’s your choice and I will respect that. Just know that when this team contends and becomes great again and you want to come back, just respect my decision to call you a front runner.
Thank you.
by barry_hal_oliver_24 on Dec 5, 2011 11:19 AM EST reply actions 8 recs
Thank you for the first sentence
I’m as die hard a Met fan as they come, and I’m as upset about this news as anyone, but the eulogy-esque aspects of some of this morning’s reactions are a bit extreme. There are a heck of a lot more things worth wondering what you can tell your kid about, like why that person sleeping on the street corner doesn’t have anywhere to live or anything to eat. It’s a lot easier to get worked up about baseball, but let’s not go overboard here.
by dontstopbelieving on Dec 5, 2011 11:24 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree
Sack up, Callan.
"RBI’s does measure something – Wins."
-Bayonne Mets Fan on MMO
by Dandy Salderson on Dec 5, 2011 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
Thank you for the first sentence
I’m as die hard a Met fan as they come, and I’m as upset about this news as anyone, but the eulogy-esque aspects of some of this morning’s reactions are a bit extreme. There are a heck of a lot more things worth wondering what you can tell your kid about, like why that person sleeping on the street corner doesn’t have anywhere to live or anything to eat. It’s a lot easier to get worked up about baseball, but let’s not go overboard here.
by dontstopbelieving on Dec 5, 2011 11:23 AM EST reply actions
Crap, reply fail
This was meant in reply to barry_hal_oliver_24 above
by dontstopbelieving on Dec 5, 2011 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
dontstopbelievinglohaus
dontstopbelievinglohaus
"Intelligence is not a genetic predisposition. Think stupid!!"
by Wright of passage on Dec 5, 2011 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
I agree with the "fans will get over it" part
but I don’t agree with this:
Even if the Mets were in decent financial and competitive shape, they’d be unwise to match the contract he’s getting. The likelihood of him staying healthy for the duration of that contract, or remaining with one team over those six years, is slim. The new front office regime is imposing the kind of painful but necessary fiscal sanity it should have adopted a long time ago. You know this.
This Dave Cameron piece makes a compelling argument that this isn’t such a bad deal, maybe even a favorable one for the Fish. I don’t want to rehash that whole debate, but the “he’s always hurt!” meme has been way overdone.
This is FAR more about the Wilpons specific financial situation than it is about the baseball wisdom of this particular deal. This contract would not have been fiscal insanity. That doesn’t detract from your broader point, that players come and go, but right now the Mets are dysfunction city.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
Agree with your disagreement!
With the looming debts, jury trial, Omar contracts ($66 million to 3 players in 2013), etc. the Wilpons (if they’re allowed to keep the team) will keep the Mets in the cellar for the next half decade or more.
by Steve OnceBrooklynNowMets on Dec 5, 2011 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
Can we stop with the baseless hyperbole?
The Mets will not be “in the cellar for the next half decade or more.”
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
No one knows for sure
But we can look at existing players and make reasonable projections. “In the cellar for the next half decade or more?” Please.
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
Are you sure? It might happen. It might not.
The only thing we know for sure is the Miami Marlins are going to win a World Series in 2015.
Oh pissing blimey there's jam coming out of the walls!
With LeBron James in center field
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
by Russ on Dec 5, 2011 12:03 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
to be fair
I think there’s a much greater chance of the Mets stinking for a number of years than there is that they are contenders, much less big winners.
NL East is a very, very rough division. Philadelphia is very good. Atlanta is good and young. The Nationals are getting better and (mostly) young. The Marlins have some great pieces in Johnson, Sanchez, Nolasco, Stanton, Sanchez, Morrison, Ramirez, etc. Personally, I see our ceiling for some time as the Blue Jays, while the basement is the Orioles.
The artful muppet formerly known as KrmtDfrog.
Please read my sardonic wit and over-blown sense of self over at headkicklegend.com
by Cory Braiterman on Dec 5, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
Do you really think that the Mets will be in last place every single season for the next several?
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
No, not even mets fans are stupid enough
To realistically believe this. People are just too busy shitting their pants as if no team has ever lost a player before
"Amazing strength, amazing power - he can grind the dust out of the bat. He will be great, super even wonderful. Now, if he can only learn to catch a fly ball."
-Casey Stengel on Lucas Duda
by piazza62 on Dec 5, 2011 1:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
very close to it
Barring injuries, Philly for this year and next will still have reeeeeeeeeeeeediculous pitching. Atlanta will be good for a long time with all their young talent. Washington and Miami have a lot of pieces and are spending money. The ceiling right now is 3rd, maybe a 2nd place finish if something ridiculous happens (like the Jays, as I said). The basement is literally that – the worst team in a division of monster teams – the Orioles.
The artful muppet formerly known as KrmtDfrog.
Please read my sardonic wit and over-blown sense of self over at headkicklegend.com
by Cory Braiterman on Dec 5, 2011 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
It depends when Harper and Rendon come up.
If it’s soon (like mid-season next year), then yes because there are clearly already 4 better teams than us in the division.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
hahaha
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
And the Marlins still sucked
I’m not buying this at all. There is no chance that the Mets are not good by 2013. PIITB
"Amazing strength, amazing power - he can grind the dust out of the bat. He will be great, super even wonderful. Now, if he can only learn to catch a fly ball."
-Casey Stengel on Lucas Duda
by piazza62 on Dec 5, 2011 1:22 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
the fish are not going to be big time contenders
without signing a pitcher. or maybe josh johnson will actually pitch a full season again at some point
Five whole games
is not a lot. That is Jose’s WAR right there. Bell is let’s say 2. Get another pitcher and that’s another 4 or 5. Fuck it, they go full Pujols and suddenly have a turnaround of 20 games next year. They are actively doing what it takes in the FA market to radically improve their team.
The Mets’ farm system is not bad, but not some absurd Rays/Royals system where half a dozen people are going to come in and play at near all-star levels. Name me five position players in A+ or higher that look they’ll be all stars. Name me three pitchers. Now halve that because close to half of all prospects don’t make it. Then cut it some more because they never realize their ceilings.
There are a tremendous amount of holes to fill on this club in order to be a really good team again, and so far this offseason, the ownership/management aren’t addressing them.
The artful muppet formerly known as KrmtDfrog.
Please read my sardonic wit and over-blown sense of self over at headkicklegend.com
by Cory Braiterman on Dec 5, 2011 2:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
There have been what, a handful of signings?
So only 2 or 3 teams are addressing their issues I guess.
"Sometimes you make a mistake and you get hit in the head." - Eli Manning
good point
However, the Mets have also shown no indication so far of being actively interested in any of the more successful free agents. Perhaps this changes, but so far it isn’t looking like there’s going to be much to be happy about.
The artful muppet formerly known as KrmtDfrog.
Please read my sardonic wit and over-blown sense of self over at headkicklegend.com
by Cory Braiterman on Dec 5, 2011 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
I think the Mets offered him enough
That if he were interested in being loyal to this franchise and its fans, he could have signed here and not lost very much money if at all.
I actually think that Reyes did not want to play here anymore, and prefers the idea of playing and hanging out in Miami. I don’t even think necessarily that it’s about ‘wanting to win’. That eases the sting.
What also eases the sting is that while it’s certainly possible that Reyes has several more seasons like the last one, it’s also possible, even probable, that he reverts to hitting .280 and/or has hamstring problems every year.
When Reyes came up, he was perfection to me – a speedy shortstop triple machine wearing #7. But when a free agent chooses to leave, it tells you something about them. As much as Reyes’ season rekindled my hopes for him, his abdication dashed them. In the end, he wasn’t what I thought he’d be.
Get The Frickin' Rebound
I'm guessing you buy into the BS motivational posters in your workplace, right?
Give your all, for as little as the assholes can get away with giving you?
Baseball is a workplace, for baseball players. Why is that so hard to understand?
by SuperT on Dec 5, 2011 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
I guess it comes down to the Wilponzies saying that the Mets were a crap team with him,they may as well be
a crap team without him for $100 million less.Simple as that! With the Mets, the more things that change the more they remain the same.
Thought
Why not extend Wright now.
Pick up the 2013 option now and offer him a 4 yr/ $60-65 extention to 2017.
Squashes all the trade Wright press, ensures he’ll be here for the next 5 years (5 Prime of his Life years), build the team up with Davis and the pitching coming up, also takes the sting a bit off from Reyes leaving.
by barry_hal_oliver_24 on Dec 5, 2011 11:50 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
It's not a bad idea
If only for the part about squashing all the trade Wright press. I really don’t want to go through this for the next two years still with Wright.
I think there are two options regarding David.
Either sign him to an extension now, or go ahead and trade him this offseason. I definitely would like to see him extended, but I could also see the value in taking advantage of the situation with Reyes by making a clean break with the past few years. It would feel terrible, but at least it would be done with. With how devastating it feels to lose Reyes, would it be that much worse to add losing Wright to the heartbreak? The absolute worst situation would be to have a long drawn out deal where Wright is traded mid-year or next offseason. It would be devastating for Mets fans to have this emotional wound reopened.
Wright should not be traded this offseason
He just finished the worst season of his career, so the Mets would be selling low.
My view is that we should see how he is performing next season. If Wright performs at an elite level again, then he stays. If he’s performing well, but nothing special, then trade him.
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
If you trade him mid-season
though, that’ll be a half-season rental, as only the Mets have the option for 2013.
Sandy did well with the half-season rental of Beltran
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
Using 20/20 hindsight
this is what should have happened last offseason.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
Well said...
It’s hard to think on this rationally. It feels like the Mets are cursed to lose their best homegrown players during their prime years. Nolan Ryan, Amos Otis, Tom Seaver, Lenny Dykstra, Darryl Strawberry, and now… Jose Reyes (it’s painful to even write). Hopefully, when we look back on this, Jose Reyes in a Marlin uniform will look more like Darryl Strawberry on the Dodgers and not Amos Otis with the Royals.
No curses
Only incompetent ownership
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
I'm so torn right now
I became a Mets fan in Texas because of Jose Reyes…what do I do now? I’ve invested so much time and energy into learning all there is to learn about the Mets because of Reyes. Now he’s gone. Do I go with him?
Enjoying what may be the final season of two of my favorite Mets in Blue and Orange: Jose Reyes and Carlos Beltran
If you're a loyal fan you don't turn your back on the team because of one player
No matter how great he is.
by graves9 on Dec 5, 2011 12:11 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
You can learn about Ike Davis, and about Matt Harvey, Zack Wheeler and Brandon Nimmo.
There are still players that are interesting and worth your time.
I also fully appreciate all of that emotional energy that you invested. I remember when Seaver was traded. That was the worst. And I remember watching Doc and Straw’s careers get derailed, and then continue in other uniforms. It is not easy. You’ll have to figure out your own way to deal with this. If nothing else, you have Amazin’ Avenue to offer support, which is what an AA is supposed to do.
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
Haha, you are exactly right
Enjoying what may be the final season of two of my favorite Mets in Blue and Orange: Jose Reyes and Carlos Beltran
Do what I'm doing
I enjoyed Jose’s presence for 8 years, and now it is time to find someone else to watch.
One day, this team is going to kill me.
Putting my optimistic idea out there
Ok, being a NY Giants fan in addition to my Met fandom, I am taking this approach. The Giants lost Steve Smith this past off-season to an in division team. I was upset (not nearly as upset as losing Reyes because Reyes means more to the Mets than Smith ever did to the Giants, but that is not the point of my analogy), but have gotten over it with the performace of Cruz. He has surpassed Smith as a playmaker in my opinion and much more likeable. So, taking that idea and running with it, my hope is that the Mets can find their version of Cruz. Maybe it is one of the young pitchers coming up through the minors or maybe it is a someone on their radar that they bring into this organization, who knows? Maybe it is Tejada himself that will make awesome defensive plays and increase his offensive with another year under his belt. Maybe it is someone the have targeted in the Rule V draft. Alderson is not a fool and knows he will need to do something to improve the morale of this fan base. Cause let’s face it, we are talking a serious low morale right now.
I hate losing Reyes but I am keeping myself sane right now with the thought that this could be openning the door for someone else to come in here and win our hearts like he did.
Rueben Tejeda = Victor Cruz!
I like your style.
Now, kids, being eaten by a crocodile is just like going to sleep; in giant blender.
or Luis Hernandez
and Ramon Martinez
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
I dont think Victor Cruz has eyebrows that nice
how dare you insult Ruben like that.
Cruz is my second favorite Giant behind Eli.
Maybe Cruz can teach Tejada the salsa dance!
by SFloridaMetsFan on Dec 5, 2011 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
get rid of wilpon
it is very simple to get rid of wilpon nobody spend a cent on anything mets til he sells the team done
He's not selling this team, maybe ever
And even if we did “boycott” all that would do is ensure wright gets traded
"Amazing strength, amazing power - he can grind the dust out of the bat. He will be great, super even wonderful. Now, if he can only learn to catch a fly ball."
-Casey Stengel on Lucas Duda
by piazza62 on Dec 5, 2011 12:50 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Couldn't disagree more with this:
“Even if the Mets were in decent financial and competitive shape, they’d be unwise to match the contract he’s getting.”
You should read Dave Cameron’s piece on this today. There’s an excellent chance this contract will be a bargain. It’s not a Bay contract, it’s not an A-Rod contract. It’s not even a Johan contract where there was even more risk because he was a pitcher. It’s a fair contract that takes him through his age 33/34 season. That’s not ancient. Reyes could easily be a 3-4 WAR player at that age even playing only 130 games. And the alternative is that this team will be borderline unwatchable for the next 2 years. It’s not about avoiding past mistakes. It’s about retaining a franchise player that would probably outperform the amount of this particular contract, and that’s the kind of deal you should be making if you want to turn things around.
by David G on Dec 5, 2011 12:30 PM EST reply actions 11 recs
at least...
At least we got this Steve Henderson kid, who can hit .300, I think. Pat Zachry has a good arm, if he can keep his temper under control. Doug Flynn can pick it in the field, and I have pretty high hopes for Dan Norman, too.
by jimwindolf on Dec 5, 2011 12:35 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Yes!
I was 10 years old on that dark day in 1977, but I loved those guys. Thank you Steve, Pat, and Doug. I’ll leave out Dan Norman, that was kind of a drag, especially when Joe Torre sent him up to pinch hit lefty and he struck out.
Get The Frickin' Rebound
I loved them, too.
Hating the Seaver trade is revisionist history. At the time it looked like a good deal.
The Seaver trade was widely hated when it happened
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
We'll All Miss Jose, But...
…I don’t begrudge him signing with another team. I begrudge the Wilpons for putting us in a position where we couldn’t even put up a fight, dollar-wise, to retain him.
If the Mets make a fair offer and Reyes turns it down, fine. But last time I checked the Mets play in the largest media market in the world. Time will tell how good/bad of a contract this is, but New York teams don’t let players walk because they can’t afford them. This is just downright embarrassing and the blame falls squarely on the Wilpons’ shoulders. This is what’s most upsetting to me.
I look at it this way: I’ve pretty much known he’d be gone, so I had 4-5-6 months to prepare for it. The Mets are years from contention, and unless signing Jose Reyes meant getting six Jose Reyes’, that wasn’t going to change.
I got over Straw with the Dodgers, I’ll get over this too.
Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers
Big Blue View: Unofficial New York Giants blog
by Jim Schmiedeberg on Dec 5, 2011 12:37 PM EST reply actions
Words are meaningless.
Jose is gone.
I typed your symptoms into this thing up here and it says you could have network connectivity problems.
by TKFJ on Dec 5, 2011 12:41 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
W. H. Auden
Stop all the clocks, cut off the telephone,
Prevent the dog from barking with a juicy bone,
Silence the pianos and with muffled drum
Bring out the coffin, let the mourners come.
Let aeroplanes circle moaning overhead
Scribbling on the sky the message He Is Dead,
Put crepe bows round the white necks of the public doves,
Let the traffic policemen wear black cotton gloves.
He was my North, my South, my East and West,
My working week and my Sunday rest,
My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
I thought that love would last for ever: I was wrong.
The stars are not wanted now: put out every one;
Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
Pour away the ocean and sweep up the wood.
For nothing now can ever come to any good.
by Kepler on Dec 5, 2011 1:18 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
Another thought
How happy are we going to be if Jose misses half the season with a hammy injury? I mean not happy that the dude is hurt, but happy that he will not be sitting on our DL. Also, when he faces our own RA Dickey, how much are we gonna laugh when he looks foolish swinging at a knuckeler? I really do not know where all of this optimism is coming from, but I am just going to roll with it for now. I am sure the pessimism is lurking somewhere in the shadows.
Hearts can only be broken once
and losing Rusty Staub broke mine when I was 12.
So to all the 12-year olds out there for whom Jose is all that: this really sucks for you, we know, we’re sorry.
And if it’s any consolation, you don’t actually ever get over it.
OK, that’s not consolation at all. But it is only just baseball.
God...
I could only imagine how bad this would be if I was a diehard 12 year old Met fan.
I would wallow in pity for weeks.
Now I only do it for days.
Maturity.
I typed your symptoms into this thing up here and it says you could have network connectivity problems.
this is an oddly inspirational post
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 6, 2011 1:01 AM EST up reply actions
Disagree, completely, with this whole post.
You would have seen age catch up to him, as it catches up to all athletes, as it catches up to all of us, and you would have seen his legs slow and his bat slow and his game change, and you would see him leave for elsewhere or retire.
Yeah, that’s how it should have happened. He stays on the Mets his whole career, gracefully (or less gracefully, depending on his career arc) declines and retires. We get to say good bye to him on a victory lap-type last season. We get to watch the whole career arc, knowing he was ours. That’s not the same as what just happened, and you know it. To try to present this as equivalent to what should have happened is disingenuous. “Yeah, your middle-aged father was killed by a drunk driver, but he was gonna die someday ANYWAY, so no big deal.”
Even if the Mets were in decent financial and competitive shape, they’d be unwise to match the contract he’s getting.
Nonsense. This is a good contract. It’s not Crawford money. There’s a chance he won’t be worth it, but I’d bet he gets really close. And I wouldn’t be wrong to make that bet.
You consider your child, who knows only one baseball player, who thinks everyone with dreads is him, who has chanted his name at the ballpark, who has said to you more than once this offseason that she misses him. But she is still very young, still learning so much about the world and her place in it. She’ll get over it.
Maybe a kid’ll get over it, but maybe this is a moment when you can help your kid realize that this while baseball fandom thing is a waste of time and energy. Fuck the Mets, fuck fandom, fuck the Wilpons, etc. I could have learned to play the piano in the time I wasted following this team. Learned French. Painted. Biked. Done anything useful. Instead, I wasted it all. Don’t let your kid make the same mistake.
by AceMcFlint on Dec 5, 2011 1:31 PM EST reply actions 11 recs
Rec'd and wholeheartedly agreed
This is what baseball needs: home-grown, beloved superstars spending their careers with the teams they came up with. The pain of losing a player like Reyes threatens to lose baseball its most passionate young fans, some for life. If a huge-budget New York team can’t afford to make that happen, the commissioner should invoke the “best interests of baseball” clause and take that team over.
by anonymous on Dec 5, 2011 1:36 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
That would be nice
But unfortunately we have the displeasure of having the only owner in dire financial straits that also happens to be best buds with the Commissioner and has taken a very hypocritical stance with how the Wilpons are handled versus other owners who are running their franchise into the ground.
by MetsCity on Dec 5, 2011 1:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'd like to have just one future HOFer before I die
In the largest market in the country, why is that too much to ask?
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
Because you are a Mets fan.
I typed your symptoms into this thing up here and it says you could have network connectivity problems.
OK, which Wilpon are you?
Fred? Jeff? Shemp?
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
I understand the desire for Hall of Fame players
but what on earth does being in New York have to do with it? Do fans of Milwaukee, Los Angeles, Pittsburgh, Oakland, etc not deserve the same? I’m upset, but I can’t stand the elitism.
"Amazing strength, amazing power - he can grind the dust out of the bat. He will be great, super even wonderful. Now, if he can only learn to catch a fly ball."
-Casey Stengel on Lucas Duda
What elitism?
The fans of small market teams have had that, but the Mets have not. The point about being in New York is that the money is here to keep players, assuming competent ownership.
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
Competent ownership, money, and New York
are all mutually exclusive for the Mets.
"Amazing strength, amazing power - he can grind the dust out of the bat. He will be great, super even wonderful. Now, if he can only learn to catch a fly ball."
-Casey Stengel on Lucas Duda
this has to be at least top 10 reaction so far:
I could have learned to play the piano in the time I wasted following this team.
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
Rec'd for calling the bullshit
But time spent watching baseball is never wasted. Like any other human activity, it’s not pure, but it does contain some purity. Baseball, in itself, is and will remain beautiful.
by SuperT on Dec 5, 2011 1:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Brilliant
maybe this is a moment when you can help your kid realize that this while baseball fandom thing is a waste of time and energy. Fuck the Mets, fuck fandom, fuck the Wilpons, etc. I could have learned to play the piano in the time I wasted following this team. Learned French. Painted. Biked. Done anything useful. Instead, I wasted it all. Don’t let your kid make the same mistake.
It is too late to save me, but I can save my kids!
"RBI’s does measure something – Wins."
-Bayonne Mets Fan on MMO
by Dandy Salderson on Dec 5, 2011 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
Subject lines please
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
Why save them?
Make them suffer like you did! ha!
"Sometimes you make a mistake and you get hit in the head." - Eli Manning
Maybe kids will feel an affinity for Ruben Tejada
Because they used to look like that when they were 8 years old.
Nice to see the Mets have an intern program
"Sometimes you make a mistake and you get hit in the head." - Eli Manning
So, sayeth Steve Phillips
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
" We get to say good bye to him on a victory lap-type last season."
Yeah, and he makes one plate appearance, bunts, and then goes to the bench, never to be seen again.
This is tough to take
Been a Mets fan from London since around the Reyes and Wright era began (bandwagon ftw)
Losing Reyes comes a few months after the team I follow in England, West Ham, sold their best player to their biggest rival that play down the road for a measly 5 mill. This was after he was named player of the year even though we were relegated… so we’re no longer even in the EPL. 5 mill for an England starter grrrr.
And now this, sigh.
Supporting terrible teams since I can remember
by Hawkins the Hammer on Dec 5, 2011 3:01 PM EST reply actions
I like what Klaw had to say about the Mets wrt Reyes
“The biggest winners here — besides Reyes, obviously — are the New York Mets, who get to say they made a good-faith effort to retain their star but weren’t willing to go to the lengths to which the Marlins went to sign him. There is no rational argument that the Mets should have invested for that length of time in a player as risky as Reyes is — they should be thinking long-term, and Reyes’ risk increases exponentially as time goes on. Shortstop is a tough hole for them to fill in the short term, but given their other issues, they are better off with Reyes in South Florida.”
I agree with this completely. It’s the only thing i’ve read that jives with my feelings and thoughts perfectly.
Oh pissing blimey there's jam coming out of the walls!
Everyone has a right to their feelings, so I can't argue with anyone's sentiment
but the opinions expressed in that quote are the worst kind of hyperbole.
No rational argument… Huh? The Dave Cameron piece linked several times in this thread more than qualifies. Reyes signed a market deal. It wasn’t exorbitant.
Reyes’ injury risk increases exponentially… Come on. People are making him out to be Grady Sizemore. As Cameron notes, Reyes could miss a month of the season every year of the deal and his conservative projections would easily perform to the contract.
I won’t get into the good faith effort.
For me this isn’t even just about Reyes. This was about a franchise decision that had everything to do with the personal finances of an ownership group who could have basically solved them during the season. They chose not to, lest they lose too much control for their tastes.
Given that, I cannot for the life of me see how any fan can have ANY confidence that this group is capable of putting this franchise on the path to contention in the foreseeable future. (Now THAT’s how you do hyperbole.)
In all seriousness though, I’m sympathetic to the argument that says the Mets can’t invest that much in any one player. Fair enough, but I honestly don’t see a path to contention that isn’t at major risk of sabotage at the hands of our “can’t do” ownership. The system will take several cycles to build up to even being above-the-median. Why should fans think that the Wilpons will make the kind investments it takes to turn things around?
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
by dcrockett17 on Dec 5, 2011 4:13 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
This:
This was about a franchise decision that had everything to do with the personal finances of an ownership group who could have basically solved them during the season. They chose not to
They had their savior in Einhorn, but they let their selfishness/hubris destroy themselves.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
by Ogre39666 on Dec 5, 2011 5:40 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Ugh
the fact that Law thinks it was a good move only proves it was probably stupid. Cameron’s article makes a lot more sense. The Marlins will get great value on this contract even if Reyes only averages 130 games a year. Law is an obnoxious idiot.
Why does it matter what the Marlins get out of him?
All that matters is that in the Mets current financial situation, it made little sense to resign him.
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only BLUE WALLS.
The 2012 Mets: Fortune cookie says come back in 2015
Why doesn't it make sense to sign
a franchise player for a below market value? Really? And have one of the better shortstops in the league for the next six years? If he had signed for 120 million or seven years I could see this argument. They absolutely could have afforded this signing. It may have meant punting Mike Pelfrey, but so effing what. You’d have Reyes. And if they knew they couldn’t even go to $106 million, then they were delusional in thinking they had a chance at him, and should have traded him.
by David G on Dec 5, 2011 7:55 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Market value can't be the emphasis here
It’s the fact that Bay, Santana, and Wright already take up significant portions of the payroll, and if you sign Reyes, you’d be tying up about 80 million in four players for the next two years.
When your payroll is seemingly dropping on a daily basis, you cannot afford to tie up that much of your payroll on one player, no matter how good he is.
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only BLUE WALLS.
The 2012 Mets: Fortune cookie says come back in 2015
First off, your math is off
if you get $80 million from those 4 contracts.
Since when do terms like "market value"
and “franchise player” and “fans” mean anything to the Wilpons? You give them too much credit.
"Amazing strength, amazing power - he can grind the dust out of the bat. He will be great, super even wonderful. Now, if he can only learn to catch a fly ball."
-Casey Stengel on Lucas Duda
That might have some merit if
1) Anyone actually buys that “they made a good-faith effort”, and/or
2) Reyes wasn’t lost on a market-value contract.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
they'll firesale in a year or two
They have enough to pay the contracts for a year or so, and know big names are easy to trade the second they fall out of contention. I’m sure they’ll spend their asses off, totally on the assumption most of these players won’t be around more than a year or two.
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 6, 2011 1:04 AM EST up reply actions
So are we allowed to start hoping for them to do a Delgado now?
I look forward to the second coming of Jose. Next year, in Jerusalem Citi Field.
OK, then would you trade....
…Nimmo, Wheeler and Mejia for Reyes?
Cause that’s what they’re gonna ask for.
by barry_hal_oliver_24 on Dec 6, 2011 8:44 AM EST up reply actions

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