Mets Trade Angel Pagan to Giants for Andres Torres and Ramon Ramirez
by Chris McShane on Dec 6, 2011 10:06 PM EST
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Shortly after inking Jon Rauch to a one-year deal, the Mets have traded Angel Pagan to the San Francisco Giants for center fielder Andres Torres and relief pitcher Ramon Ramirez. pending physicals, of course.
This is the second time the Mets have traded away Pagan, having previously done so before he made it to the big leagues with the Cubs.
As for the players coming back in this deal, Torres had an awful year at the plate in 2011 - more so than Pagan - but put together an .835 OPS over 740 plate appearances between 2009 and 2010. That's not bad considering the pitcher-friendliness of AT&T Park. On the downside, he'll turn 32 in January.
Ramirez is a right-handed reliever who has strung together four straight sub-3.00 ERA seasons, two of which were supported by his peripherals. He'll turn 31 during the 2012 season,
The early reaction here is that's it's not a slam dunk for either team. Sandy Alderson never spoke too highly of Pagan since taking over as general manager, and in Torres he'll get a defensively gifted center fielder who might be able to bounce back at the plate along with another piece of his new bullpen.
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I think I like it, mostly.
With Bay and Duda at the corners, it makes sense to upgrade the defense in center. But man, this front office must not have believed Pagan could bounce back.
They traded a gamble for a gamble and a good bullpen arm.
And I liked Pagan a lot.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
adding the arm makes it less of a gamble
with good CF coming up possibly soon with Capt Kirk
Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all
by Rickfansince76 on Dec 7, 2011 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
Hi from MCC again
Andres Torres was one of the most inspiring story of the Giants 2010. We’re going to miss him dearly. You are picking up a great centerfielder and just a joyful person to watch.
Get to know your new CF! I made this during that 2010 season, enjoy.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw
by jctGamer on Dec 6, 2011 10:09 PM EST reply actions 7 recs
You are far too pleasant and cheerful for AA
by JaySchu on Dec 6, 2011 10:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
just this week maybe
but since I’ve discovered the sbnation universe I’ve noticed a lot of good vibes between AA and MCC, and I like it
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf. "
– Tug McGraw when asked about his preference for grass or astroturf
by Terry_is_God on Dec 6, 2011 11:05 PM EST up reply actions
Indeed
MCC is, as they say, good people
"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage
by blueandorange4life on Dec 6, 2011 11:23 PM EST up reply actions
He, jctGamer
I’d like you to get to know your new centerfielder, too:
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 6, 2011 10:39 PM EST up reply actions 10 recs
Hahaha, I copied the wrong GIF
No, this is your new centerfielder, excuse me:
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 6, 2011 10:40 PM EST up reply actions
I was going to say that this is the wrong .gif
but it’s still right.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
I literally started giggling hysterically like a little girl when that posted
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 6, 2011 10:41 PM EST up reply actions
Ditto
"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage
by blueandorange4life on Dec 6, 2011 11:24 PM EST up reply actions
It's always the right GIF
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
There is never a situation
where this is the wrong gif
"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage
by blueandorange4life on Dec 6, 2011 11:24 PM EST up reply actions
You have no idea how much this is actually the right gif for jctgamer.
The first six innings are overrated.
/nods
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw
Just as a sidenote
we use the subject line here.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
by Ogre39666 on Dec 6, 2011 11:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Normally I just lurk, but I can't resist sharing this.
hello, by the way
by Eyeball Kid on Dec 7, 2011 12:37 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
haha, wow
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 7, 2011 12:55 AM EST up reply actions
this is the greatest thing ever
Time to update this: 2009 Did Not Happen. Neither did 2010. Or 2011. Sports suck.
Same here
Enjoy watching Andres in the field next season (and hopefully at the plate too). He’ll probably make at least one play a month that makes you jump out of your seat, in a good way.
Don't think he can cut it in the bigs? Brock Bond will be the bigger man and walk walk walk away.
This is a good trade for the Mets
Torres for Pagan straight up might be a good deal
Anyone else not really like this deal?
We’re trading Pagan well below peak value, and I don’t think we’re getting all that much for him.
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 6, 2011 10:10 PM EST reply actions
I disagree.
You gain good defense and a decent reliever, and give up maybe a little offense if Pagan bounces back. I think the Mets will get more value from these two players than they would from just Pagan.
by EricAColucci on Dec 6, 2011 10:20 PM EST up reply actions
You're assuming that last year wasn't his normal.
He’s already past his peak so the likelihood of returning to 2010 form was slim to none.
Yeah, I'm not in love with it at all
Sandy apparently hates all my favorite players. Watch out, Lucas Duda.
Duda is not going anywhere
and if I’m wrong, I am going to drop everything and start an Occupy Citi Field movement.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf. "
– Tug McGraw when asked about his preference for grass or astroturf
by Terry_is_God on Dec 6, 2011 11:07 PM EST up reply actions
Duda is Sandy's kind of player
He walks and hits for power.
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
My first reaction was not that happy
a lot will depend on if this reliever does anything. Torres pretty much sucked last year. Pagan has more upside and is almost 3 years younger.
we are also trading for Torres well below peak value
and neither may ever return to that value, so, as Ogre said, we traded a gamble for a gamble and a bullpen arm
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
Also
Torres probably ends up costing half as much as Pagan
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
Don’t tell the Giants, they think they’re saving money for their owners in this deal.
The above comment is not affiliated with the San Francisco Giants, is not based on a secret source of team information, and may contain personal opinion.
YAY GO GIANTS AND YOUR INFALLIBLE FRONT OFFICE WITH ITS SECRET UNKNOWABLE INFORMATION
by natteringnabob on Dec 6, 2011 11:05 PM EST up reply actions
it should end up being about a push I think
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
though I would bet the Giants spend more on Pagan
than the Mets do on Torres and Ramirez
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
If it works out that way it would be pretty funny given the Giants’ agenda to hold salary down for position players as much as they can. One of the Giants’ beat writers thinks
The Giants likely saved at least $2-3 million in the trade and they could use that flexibility any minute now.
The above comment is not affiliated with the San Francisco Giants, is not based on a secret source of team information, and may contain personal opinion.
YAY GO GIANTS AND YOUR INFALLIBLE FRONT OFFICE WITH ITS SECRET UNKNOWABLE INFORMATION
by natteringnabob on Dec 6, 2011 11:18 PM EST up reply actions
how do they possibly figure that?
Torres was at 2.2 mil last year and had a down year, won’t be over 3 mil from arb. Ramirez made 1.65 mil last season, so I can’t imagine him getting much more than 2 mil from arb. I originally said that cause I thought that Pagan made 4.2 million last year and would be closer to 5 mil, but that was just the max he could have made, and he instead made 3.5, so arb probably bumps him to 4ish mil – so the Giants probably save 500K – 1 mil
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
maybe
figuring more for Ramirez? Or maybe they’re underestimating Pagan’s award. The other beat writer said something funnier yet:
All three players in the deal are arbitration-eligible, and the Mets will be taking on extra salary, if only because it was a 1-for-2 trade.
The above comment is not affiliated with the San Francisco Giants, is not based on a secret source of team information, and may contain personal opinion.
YAY GO GIANTS AND YOUR INFALLIBLE FRONT OFFICE WITH ITS SECRET UNKNOWABLE INFORMATION
by natteringnabob on Dec 6, 2011 11:46 PM EST up reply actions
That's great logic
Obviously, Tim Lincecum is making less money in arbitration this year than Torres and Ramirez combined, right? God, that’s an idiotic statement.
Amazin Avenue Offseason Plan Contest Winner - 2011 Mets
I love Pagan but I am okay with this
Sadly, we need bullpen help more than we needed our Angel in the outfield
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf. "
– Tug McGraw when asked about his preference for grass or astroturf
by Terry_is_God on Dec 6, 2011 11:06 PM EST up reply actions
Rauch, Ramirez, Francisco
That’s a lot of bullpen in not a lot of time. We’ll be great at protecting 3-run deficits.
Snark aside, I wonder if this means that Kirk is going to get a serious look early in the season.
by Potatoes O'Grady on Dec 6, 2011 10:11 PM EST reply actions
yeah
Yogi on the 1969 NY Mets....." overwhelming underdogs "
by SuperSantana on Dec 6, 2011 10:24 PM EST up reply actions
Torres Ramirez and Francisco
Typical Mets. Always going for the Latin players.
by barry_hal_oliver_24 on Dec 6, 2011 10:15 PM EST reply actions
are there any other kind?
I may not be the most noble of men but in a town of lepers, im the one with the most fingers.
Giant LB'zz SUCK!! Mark Herzlich, Jacquian Williams,...Maybe .. Sadly this has been modified.
Burkhart just said:
Not sure if he was referring to Sandy or Collins but “did not want Pagan on this team.”
Apparently they really hated his attitude.
This deal is about $‘s – fill 2 holes for the cost of one guy you don’t like. We’re in the poorhouse – for a poorhouse move it’s fine.
not here for trouble.
Can we send you 2 players for Wright? I’m kidding. He is the face of your team.
74 today and 73 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
Um. Dude---read the username
74 today and 73 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
We will take Tulo + cash and Pomeranz then
by nerfan on Dec 6, 2011 10:19 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Im not even going to comment. LOL
74 today and 73 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
please god no, we don't want him
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 7, 2011 12:00 AM EST up reply actions
Sure.
Pomeranz and that rookie catcher of yours (:
by barry_hal_oliver_24 on Dec 6, 2011 10:18 PM EST up reply actions
I doubt that would happen.
The catcher-probably, Pomeranz. Nope
74 today and 73 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES.
Great trade
Torres is better, cheaper than Pagan and Ramirez on top of it
We got Rauch, Ramirez and Francisco in one night, not too bad. If we get Rauch to pitch somewhere near his previous two years and Ramirez to give his norm and we picked up our closer in Francisco I say it was a good night for Alderson.
Izzy is not a good pitcher anymore
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 6, 2011 10:42 PM EST up reply actions
Torres is a much better player than Pagan...
…using the Mets’ 2011 Translation Manual, where “better” means “cheaper.”
by MoreDireThanDuffyDyer on Dec 6, 2011 10:23 PM EST reply actions
Oh, last year.
I’ll erase my comment in that case.
by MoreDireThanDuffyDyer on Dec 6, 2011 10:26 PM EST up reply actions
Cantaloupe Antelope
"No curses, only incompetent ownership" - Russ
by Help!I'maRock! on Dec 6, 2011 10:39 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
What is this I don't even
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only BLUE WALLS.
The 2012 Mets: Fortune cookie says come back in 2015
by Syler on Dec 6, 2011 10:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It's a Cantaloupe Antelope, can't you read?
I don’t know what it’s doing in the desert, though.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 6, 2011 10:43 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Giants fan friend sent it to me
story goes that an announcer meant to call Torres an “antelope” and instead called him a “cantaloupe”. became “Cantaloupe Antelope”.
So this trade is “The Oxymoron” for “Cantaloupe Antelope” and “RamRam”.
"No curses, only incompetent ownership" - Russ
by Help!I'maRock! on Dec 6, 2011 10:50 PM EST up reply actions
You mean Crazy Horse for Cantaloupe Antelope and RamRam?
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
i like "The Oxymoron" better
"No curses, only incompetent ownership" - Russ
by Help!I'maRock! on Dec 6, 2011 10:52 PM EST up reply actions
Does anyone beside you call him that?
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
probably not
doesn’t matter anymore anyway.
"No curses, only incompetent ownership" - Russ
by Help!I'maRock! on Dec 6, 2011 10:56 PM EST up reply actions
it used to bounce around as a name from time to time
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 6, 2011 10:59 PM EST up reply actions
me too, but once the crazy horse gif appeared
i could never go back
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 6, 2011 11:01 PM EST up reply actions
Ha, ha, bounce around...
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 6, 2011 11:01 PM EST up reply actions
Oxymoron?
__________________________________________________________________
Really good kid.A very good player.Not a superstar. #BlameWilponz. Never Forget
by ScottfromPeekskill on Dec 7, 2011 12:07 AM EST up reply actions
I think it is an obvious win for us
this whole night has been. We just picked up 3 relievers, each of whom probably would have been the best reliever on the team by the end of last season, and we upgraded our defense at CF in a swap of CFers that could end up producing at about the same offensive levels. Torres was pretty bad offensively last season, yet he was still rated more valuable than Pagan overall, and has been the past 3 seasons. This and HanRam not willing to switch positions takes the sting off a bit
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
by astromets on Dec 6, 2011 10:45 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Pagan was better with the bat.
Torres: 85 wRC+
Pagan 99 wRC+
I’d put money on Pagan continuing to do so. Torres is valuable because of his elite defense and (much like Pagan) his ability to bounce back and be dealt.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
Plus the Mets get another whole player.
The above comment is not affiliated with the San Francisco Giants, is not based on a secret source of team information, and may contain personal opinion.
YAY GO GIANTS AND YOUR INFALLIBLE FRONT OFFICE WITH ITS SECRET UNKNOWABLE INFORMATION
by natteringnabob on Dec 6, 2011 10:59 PM EST up reply actions
no I know
I still really like the deal. From quick glances, it seems the split in offensive production is from Torres increased K%, which might get a little frustrating. But he also has a higher walk rate than Pagan and should benefit from the Mets approach of patience
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
That's somewhat mitigated by being 3 years older.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
From a Giants fan
you also received one of the most loveable players in the game. We all loved Andres. We didn’t care if he was struggling a bit last year. We knew he was awesome, could be awesome, and we loved him.
Many adults shed tears when we heard of the trade. Maybe we’re just soft out West, but maybe Andres was really that special. He breaks down the 4th dimension that separates fan and player. I bet RA Dickey is as close as it gets for a comp on fan love.
in a different way.
What RA Dickey means to Mets fans is pretty close to what Andres meant to us. We truly loved him. He touched us all. He was the Talisman of the 2010 WS team. Barefoot workouts in True Religion Jeans and all.
Touch them all Dickey, you deserve it!
In lobby for: Jaime Cevallos, Zack Lutz, orange unis and Rickroll as the 7th inning song.
The Unwritten Rules of AA
by Michkin on Dec 7, 2011 8:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't mind this trade, although I'll miss the Crazy Horse gif
actually reasonably good move IMO
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 6, 2011 10:45 PM EST reply actions
this
He was always a class person
Hoping the Wilpons become the Will-pawns
by exbrooklynite on Dec 6, 2011 10:49 PM EST up reply actions
These bargain bin transactions would be good
If we kept Reyes
by TheKid08 on Dec 6, 2011 10:51 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
we all did (mostly), but at least he brought in some good pieces
some consolation there
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 6, 2011 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
my question is what do the mets do in terms of offensive players.
we already addressed the bullpen but have done nothing to help score runs. I’m guessing a lot of spring training invites.
We were one of the best offensive teams in the NL.
Minus Reyes and Beltran we’re probably average.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
but we should have a fully healthy Wright, Davis and Murphy
and having Duda from the get go should benefit us too. Plus, minor league guys that could be ready to ascend to the show as the season progresses.
It would be nice to upgrade our catcher offense some though
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
yeah Thole/Nickeas is pretty ugly, although Thole could be servicable at least
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 6, 2011 11:09 PM EST up reply actions
yeah but Nickeas would be a joke
at least bring back Omir
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
he's got Papelbons number!
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 6, 2011 11:20 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I wouldn't count on all of them staying healthy
Injuries happen. We’ve had more than our share but guys will still get hurt.
That is a little pessimistic IMHO
I think we still have a respectable offense if Murphy is playing well and every day / Davis is healthy / Wright has the good year I think he’ll have … if nothing else, I’d say the Giants need Pagan’s offense much more than the Mets do.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf. "
– Tug McGraw when asked about his preference for grass or astroturf
by Terry_is_God on Dec 6, 2011 11:11 PM EST up reply actions
Ike, Duda and Wright weren't here all year though
neither was Murphy, plus Kirk and Havens could contribute.
SELL THE METS
still have (so far) duda, murphy, davis, wright, and bay. if they stay healthy should win some games. they won’t be the worst team, i think.
Shoot the puck Barry!!!
Subject lines!
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
by Ogre39666 on Dec 7, 2011 12:18 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It's a community convention.
Don’t want to conform? Then don’t post.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
I thought that was a(n attempt of) joke, but my sarcasm detector has been broken before.
In lobby for: Jaime Cevallos, Zack Lutz, orange unis and Rickroll as the 7th inning song.
The Unwritten Rules of AA
I never go to conventions.
Don’t like freedom of expression? Move.
I'd rather we try to pick up one more starter
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 6, 2011 11:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I feel like we need one more reliable middle of the rotation guy at least
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 6, 2011 11:02 PM EST up reply actions
i figure santana is one neise two, dickey 3 and realistically i see pelf or Gee as a good 5
so really i want a number 4 or an ace. seeing as were not getting an ace ill settle.
I'm just very skeptical about Santana still.
I hope he comes back and has a good year, but he’s a huge question mark as of now.
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 6, 2011 11:04 PM EST up reply actions
i have more faith in santana than most... people forget he was prob top 3 pitchers 2 years ago before he got hurt.
even a fall still puts him as a number 2
I love santana, and I remember how good he was
but I can’t think of many pitchers who came back from this type of shoulder injury to pitch. Its not an easy injury to bounce back from.
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 6, 2011 11:08 PM EST up reply actions
And let's not forget he was declining before it even happened.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
Sign Kuroda for a one year, $12 million dollar deal, and trade him at the deadline?
He costs $7 million that way, and we have a solid guy for half the year.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 6, 2011 11:07 PM EST up reply actions
Kuroda is about as steady as pitchers go
And, he’s good steady.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 6, 2011 11:17 PM EST up reply actions
Torres
is one of my all-time favorite baseball players. I’ll be watching a lot more Mets games this year.
And while I (sadly) was resigned to losing Torres, I didn’t expect Pagan to be headed here. He’ll be most welcome.
The above comment is not affiliated with the San Francisco Giants, is not based on a secret source of team information, and may contain personal opinion.
YAY GO GIANTS AND YOUR INFALLIBLE FRONT OFFICE WITH ITS SECRET UNKNOWABLE INFORMATION
Enjoy Crazy Horse
He’s great
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 6, 2011 11:05 PM EST up reply actions
Now, all they have to do is actually write his name on the lineup card regularly, which can be kind of a problem out here.
The above comment is not affiliated with the San Francisco Giants, is not based on a secret source of team information, and may contain personal opinion.
YAY GO GIANTS AND YOUR INFALLIBLE FRONT OFFICE WITH ITS SECRET UNKNOWABLE INFORMATION
by natteringnabob on Dec 6, 2011 11:14 PM EST up reply actions
its a feeling we know well with some of our guys too
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 6, 2011 11:15 PM EST up reply actions
Hey, I’m kind of excited to at least be able to see Torres in the dugout at Citi this spring!
The above comment is not affiliated with the San Francisco Giants, is not based on a secret source of team information, and may contain personal opinion.
YAY GO GIANTS AND YOUR INFALLIBLE FRONT OFFICE WITH ITS SECRET UNKNOWABLE INFORMATION
by natteringnabob on Dec 6, 2011 11:20 PM EST up reply actions
im sure he's going to be a regular starter for the Mets
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 6, 2011 11:21 PM EST up reply actions
and all you have to do is learn to use a subject line
just joking with the sass, but it can be made into a bit of a deal around these parts
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
sorry
Thanks for that.
The above comment is not affiliated with the San Francisco Giants, is not based on a secret source of team information, and may contain personal opinion.
YAY GO GIANTS AND YOUR INFALLIBLE FRONT OFFICE WITH ITS SECRET UNKNOWABLE INFORMATION
by natteringnabob on Dec 6, 2011 11:47 PM EST up reply actions
He's entertaining, in a (mostly) good way.
You realize this means we now have NO speed.
stolen bases are false hustle
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 6, 2011 11:29 PM EST up reply actions
we traded a guy who can steal 30 bases for a guy who can steal 20
but it always seemed like forever between stolen base attempts when Jose is out of the lineup
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
That's a good point…
…but 20 is opportunistic, while 30 is a threat. Remember that Wright used to steal 20. Still, thanks for the information.
you could get to 30+ steals opportunistically
Wright has. Torres certainly has the speed to be a real threat, he stole 29 in AAA in 2008 and 26 in 2010 – it could have been a team philosophy that prevented him from attempting more, or rather didn’t encourage him to be aggressive stealing, or a number of other factors that stopped him from stealing.
Still, there really aren’t that many speed players in the game – just look at the leaders from last season: only 3 players had above 40 steals
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
Based on what I've read about Alderson and Moneyball,
I don’t think the Mets’ team philosophy will encourage stealing, either. Still, 20 isn’t hay.
Take good care of our Andres.
I recommend this instructional video. Warning: contents are subject to breakage, mental strain, and incurable niceness.
by Lies and Perfidy on Dec 6, 2011 11:15 PM EST reply actions
Also this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beImAskdyqQ
Torres is, by all accounts, literally the nicest and most humble/grateful dude ever.
The first six innings are overrated.
It's sad watching because when "hyperactive" flashed across the screen with him bouncing around in the OF I though "wow, this guy would fit in great with Reyes".
Then I remember he’s gone.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
oh, I didn't see JCT already posted it
by Lies and Perfidy on Dec 6, 2011 11:25 PM EST up reply actions
how do you guys feel about ramon ramirez?
seems like a bit of an afterthought on MCC.
by robotoverlord on Dec 6, 2011 11:26 PM EST up reply actions
He was very good for us. Likable enough.
But sans personal story and fan-friendliness,
His departure pales next to Torres’.
My son, so I'm told. And this stalwart young lad (Hi, free f.p. #14!).
he's actually a pretty good middle reliever
There’s a lot of people, myself included, who distrust him for purely SSS/highlight reel-related reasons. But when you look at the numbers he’s actually a very good RHP. Exactly the kind of piece a contending team should have in the ’pen.
by Lies and Perfidy on Dec 6, 2011 11:32 PM EST up reply actions
Replaceable bullpen arm on the league's second best bullpen.
Still means he was a very good reliever and definitely above average. All relievers will blow some games, and he did his share, but overall, he was nails more often than not in close 1-0 games, which the Giants played too many of.
Hello from MCC
I hope you find as much to enjoy in Yungo as I have.
His chipper attitude, his solid defense, his endless graciousness and modesty.
I can’t wait to see what he does for your team.
It’s a bless!
My son, so I'm told. And this stalwart young lad (Hi, free f.p. #14!).
wow
i had no idea any of this happened. shocked to find how many moves we’ve made in the last 2 hours
"it's not easy being green"-kermit the frog
"we the mets are an improved ball club, now we lose in extra innings"-casy stengel
i cant spell a nosebleed
The Official Seinfeld Gif-Man of GGN!!!!!!!!
i'm a moderator for GGN. I will accept tribute.
Pagan was one of my favorites so this kind of sucks but
It seems like a pretty fair trade. I have always really liked Torres though, so with players from my list of favorite Mets being dealt off at a rapid rate it’s nice to add someone like him.
Damn, sad to see Pagan go
I was hoping to see him bounce back with his defense and BABIP. Torres is basically a Pagan type of player that plays better defense and strikes out more. I like the trade overall though.
This sucks that Reyes is leaving, but if the offense can roughly stay the same
And the pitching is better, with the new bullpen, we can finally break .500 again. There was no offense in 2010, but we won 2 more games than in 2011 because of pitching. I think this season will be OK.
SELL THE METS
honestly, as if I didn't already think this was a Mets win
with all the nice MCC folk coming over and congratulating us on getting Torres just makes me feel more confident that the Mets will come out of this winners
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
Bill James
projects Torres to have a slash line of 255-332-405 in 2012. which is solid, and you throw in excellent D and he could be very valuable.
He projects .278 /335/.399 for Pagan.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
Bill James is always overly optimistic
And Pagan’s D in CF is scratch
I am aware.
I was just responding to graves posting Bill James’ prediction of Torres in kind.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
Honestly,
I’ll take Torres’ defense over Pagan’s offense, just because Duda will be out there in left next to him.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 7, 2011 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
I was not saying one way or the other.
Just relaying information.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
another positive
Mets would have likely been hoping that Kirk forces his way into some major league CF playing time this season anyway, so why not have a cheaper CF with a better defensive history AND a reliever who has been effective
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
id like to see the cap'n break into the bigs too
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 7, 2011 12:07 AM EST up reply actions
Haha, stop being so enthusiastic
if Torres ends up hitting below the Mendoza line, you’ll regret it. I like the trade too, though, good process at least.
by robotoverlord on Dec 7, 2011 12:09 AM EST up reply actions
Fuck that, all I need to hear is
GOOD PROCESS
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
Is Torres a lead off guy?
With Reyes and crazy horse gone we might need one.
__________________________________________________________________
Really good kid.A very good player.Not a superstar. #BlameWilponz. Never Forget
by ScottfromPeekskill on Dec 7, 2011 12:11 AM EST reply actions
with a 320 OBP he better not
I didn’t like Pagan leading off either. Should be Tejada probably. Weird thought — Bay leading off?
by robotoverlord on Dec 7, 2011 12:13 AM EST up reply actions
At this point
Why not? Bay still has great discipline and he’s not going to kill you on the basepaths, either. Maybe Bay / Murphy / Wright / Davis / Duda / Tejada / Torres / Thole
That would never happen though
Bay is slightly more feasible
Although if Tejada is putting up a .360+ OBP
He’s the man for the job
Wright is a good thought.
If he got out of that “I’ve got to hit homers” mode, he’s fully capable of hitting .330 and drawing quite a few walks. Might even cut down his strikeouts. I like it.
might as well make it Thole, Bay k's too much
he walked and struck out at about a 10% clip last season, so he has the plate discipline.
Tejada is actually a good option leading off also for the same reason – technically so could Turner be.
If Baxter or Kirk were on the team or in the lineup, I bet they would be given chances to lead off too
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
Duda
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 7, 2011 12:28 AM EST up reply actions
.370 OBP
he can keep doing that, he’s the man for the job. I like Duda, Tejada, Wright, Davis, Murphy, Bay, Torres, Thole, Dickey
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 7, 2011 1:26 AM EST up reply actions
I'd actually go with Murph as the lead off guy, but
I wouldn’t have an issue giving Tejada a shot there.
leading off
Daniel Murphy is probably the best option at this point. Torres would add speed in the #2 spot but Josh Thole has better bat control and would prevent our bottom 3 from being totally anemic (with Tejada and the Pitcher)
How can Murph lead off if he is playing at 2B?
2B must bat 2nd
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
Put Torres 9th.
I think I’d like to see:
Murphy
Wright
Duda
Ike
Bay
Tejada
Thole
Pitcher
Torres
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
So I guess trading with Brian Sabean is the new market inefficiency
Time to update this: 2009 Did Not Happen. Neither did 2010. Or 2011. Sports suck.
by cjmulrain on Dec 7, 2011 12:35 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
new?
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 7, 2011 12:55 AM EST up reply actions
Ghosts of Earl Weaver past
station to station and three run bombs. You know if Earl was managing, Pagan and Reyes would have been the first guys to go.
Aloha from the West Coast
What’s your opinion on what happened with Pagan’s D last year?
He went from 13.3 UZR/150 to -16.1 in CF!!
I still think he's a true-talent above average fielder.
He lacks some instincts, but his athleticism is through the roof. It’s possible his less than stellar play was the result of thinking he could get away with not-so-great reads and routs with his speed after such a good year in the field the season before. Plus he had some nagging type injuries early.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
All of the tools are still there to be an elite defender
It might have been poor concentration, poor decision making, or something else.
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
i know im late to this party
but somewhere, someone is playing Angel by Shaggy, shedding a single tear
by the mookie monster on Dec 7, 2011 2:29 AM EST reply actions
Looks like a good deal for both teams
We needed the arm in the bullpen and Torres i good enough in CF. I think that there is a much bigger chance Pagan will rebound in 2012 than Torres.
Best case scenario would be that Kirk shows himself ML ready and graualy takes over at CF during 2012.
Pagan was a favorite
Saw him regularly back in the day in Norfolk. This is probably a solid trade though. Makes me think non-tendering or trading Pelf is imminent.
Astro Travellin'
"On the downside, he'll turn 32 in January."
Worse than that. 34 according to B-Ref.
by Gobias Industries on Dec 7, 2011 8:24 AM EST reply actions
lol that's weird
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
His age is changing already?
Did we pick up Leo Nunez, too?
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 7, 2011 6:56 PM EST up reply actions
I like the trade
But mostly because we got Ramon Ramirez
by MetsCity on Dec 7, 2011 9:27 AM EST via mobile reply actions
sorry if this is linked above
but here’s a nice article about Torres from an SF Chronicle writer.
The above comment is not affiliated with the San Francisco Giants, is not based on a secret source of team information, and may contain personal opinion.
"I'll never forget San Francisco and all those beautiful moments."- Andres Torres
So, what are the odds Brian Sabean non-tenders him?
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 7, 2011 3:06 PM EST reply actions
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