Mets shopping Jon Niese, not Ike Davis
Update: Bluejays are the other team joining Redsox, Padres and Rockies pushing hardest for Niese. via Sherman
6 months ago
Rey-O
246 comments
0 recs |
Email
PrintComments
They should be shopping
Jeff Fucking Wilpon
One day, this team is going to kill me.
by fxcarden on Dec 7, 2011 4:23 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
FTFY
They should be shopping shooting
Jeff Fucking Wilpon
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
by Russ on Dec 7, 2011 4:26 PM EST up reply actions 9 recs
They should be shooting
Fred and Jeff Fucking Wilpon
SELL THE METS
by piazza62 on Dec 7, 2011 4:52 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
They should be fucking
Fred and Jeff Wilpon’s wives…it’s a power move
by ZZPops on Dec 7, 2011 5:51 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Are they power bottoms?
"..."
by Thaddeus Ballpheasant on Dec 7, 2011 7:48 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Greenvalanche!
__________________________________________________________________
Really good kid.A very good player.Not a superstar. #BlameWilponz. Never Forget
by ScottfromPeekskill on Dec 10, 2011 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
except he's worthless
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
he is certainly not worthwhile
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
If the Reds are interested, we're interested in Grandal
Yeah, we’ll have to add another player or two.
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
Cesar Puello
What Would Matt Szczur Do?
Fact on Villanova Sports
by Hoyadestroya85 on Dec 7, 2011 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
For Niese and cash considerations
What Would Matt Szczur Do?
Fact on Villanova Sports
by Hoyadestroya85 on Dec 7, 2011 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
Puello is untouchable
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
why?
Russ if you look at Puello’s stats the last few years, they aren’t that good. I am not saying he hasn’t the potential to become a good player…but when your slugging dips below your OPB that’s pretty bad. sorry too lazy to drag up a link to Puello’s stats..
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
Puello is high touted because of his tools
In lobby for: Jaime Cevallos, Zack Lutz, orange unis and Rickroll as the 7th inning song.
The Unwritten Rules of AA
It's not about stats in the low minors
Puello is one of very few hitters in the Mets system with star upside.
Because his value is too low compared to his upside
Cesar Puello and Brandon Nimmo are probably the only OF prospects in the system with MVP potential.
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
certainly it would a big if
but if den Dekker improved his k-rate to at least average, with his above-average rated defense and the ability to fill out the stat sheet across the board, he could become similar to Ellsbury. That is a bad comp because Ellsbury is near elite at not striking out, but he could still improve in that area. It seems more likely though that he would end up maxing out as a left handed version of Mike Cameron, which would be awesome still.
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
den Dekker
will be elite defensively, K 20-25% of the time, hit for a .150 ISO, and walk around 8% of the time. Probably would steal 15-20 bases over the course of a season.
Basically, he’s Andres Torres.
Well, except he struck out 29% of the time at AA.
That’s a huge problem. If he could drop into the 20-25% range, that’d be a huge boost for his stock.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Dec 7, 2011 9:31 PM EST up reply actions
yea
he struck out 29% of the time, yet still put up 102 wRC+ and a nearly .200 ISO. That is why I am hopeful, and keep calling him a lefty Cameron instead of comparing him to a lesser player like Torres
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
The history of AA players with a ~30% K rate is pretty bad.
Basically there is only a couple of them in the majors and they got away with it by hitting 30 homers.
He's exactly the 99% of the guys who don't make the transition well
He’s all glove, doesn’t walk much or hit enough homers to get by with his 220 or so average in the majors.
That's an average wRC+ in double A for a player who's old for the league.
A 24 year old in AA should be a lot better than average if he’s going to be anything in the majors. Not to mention the strikeouts would likely limit his contact, his batting average and his power in the majors.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Dec 7, 2011 11:51 PM EST up reply actions
you guys are missing my point
yes that is average, but considering he struck out that much, it is pretty impressive he was still able to give better than average production. He doesn’t need his k-rate to drop that much for him to be giving above average offensive production with above average defense in CF
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
But aren't k-rates more likely to increase
as he moves into more age-appropriate settings?
I would say that it is different for every player
He had 314 PA there last season and 91 k’s, a huge number obviously. But say that number were only 81 k’s (about 3 k’s per 100 PA less), then his percentage drops to 25.5%, and one can live with that.
Sure, pitchers are throwing with nastier stuff as you move up the ranks, but hitters are getting faster and stronger and better at recognizing stuff as the progress at a level. Maybe he just needs a little more practice identifying which pitches not to swing at. My point is, he doesn’t need to improve that much in that area for people to stop caring about the k-rates
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
The difference is that he's not cutting down on his K rates
so there’s no reason to think he will do so all of sudden at AAA/MLB.
I'd love to get Grandal lets make it happen
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 7, 2011 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
Niese + a ShakeShack franchise?
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
They are good...
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 7, 2011 7:31 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
They are delicious!
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Dec 7, 2011 9:14 PM EST up reply actions
Niese for Pomeranz or Niese for Hanley
Do itttttt
by Criss Angel Couldn't Make Frenchy Vanish on Dec 7, 2011 4:26 PM EST reply actions
we should just stockpile young arms
and watch as they go the way of all our other vaunted pitching prospects:
Puslipher, Paul Wilson, Traber, Heilman, Kazmir, Humber, Pelfrey, Mulvey, Kunz……
"..."
by Thaddeus Ballpheasant on Dec 7, 2011 7:56 PM EST up reply actions
This makes even less sense almost
Why trade a young pitcher when the Mets have craptastic starting pitchers as it is.
This
A billion times. I can actually squint hard enough and see how shopping Ike Davis makes sense. But Niese? I don’t get that at all.
They must want some serious prospects in return
Because Niese is really, really good. Not as good as Ike.
SELL THE METS
Better prospects
Sure, but you put yourself in a greater deficit at an area you already needed to improve: Starting pitching. If this was 2013, and Harvey and Familia and Mejia all look ready to dominate, sure trade Niese for more prospects. But trading Niese , to me, kind of is a move that can be considered as punting 2012, seeing as how I don’t even know who would fill his spot in the rotation.
by MetsCity on Dec 7, 2011 4:59 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
heyman says looking for a starter, infielder, catcher
so i assume a back of the rotation starter, a utility infielder and a good catching prospect. so the back of the rotation starter would fill his spot
"Anybody with ability can play in the big leagues. But to be able to trick people year in and year out the way I did, I think that was a much greater feat." -Bob Uecker
"Who is the girl in the dugout, with the long hair? What's going on here? You have got to be kidding me. Only player personnel in the dugout. I won't say that women belong in the kitchen, but they don't belong in the dugout." -Kieth Hernandez
Feel the same way
I think Niese could be a huge part of the future. He has great stuff is young and misses bats.
Niese, Murph & Parnell
will all have accumulated 3 years of service time at the end of 2012 (unless Parnell gets bumped to AAA) so they’ll be in line for raises next season. If the finances are truly in the toilet then there’s a financial incentive to moving those guys before 2013.
They should be looking to extend Niese
Buy out his arb years and a couple and a FA year at a reasonable price. Lefty’s who strike guys out and don’t walk too many don’t exactly grow on trees.
Unless they get a kings ransom trading Niese is silly IMO.
Niese seemingly gets better every time he pitches. I wouldn’t trade him. I’d trade Parnell before Niese.
Shoot the puck Barry!!!
Niese has more trade value
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
I'm not believing anything Sherman says until it actually happens
by joma16 on Dec 7, 2011 4:34 PM EST reply actions 7 recs
he's in full la-la land these days
The artful muppet formerly known as KrmtDfrog.
Please read my sardonic wit and over-blown sense of self over at headkicklegend.com
by Cory Braiterman on Dec 7, 2011 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
Traid Sherman
for JoePos.
Ralph Kiner: You've gotta change the script, I don't like the script.
Gary Cohen: What's wrong with the script?
Ralph Kiner: Well the script should be the Mets win every day.
by StorkFan on Dec 7, 2011 9:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This.
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 7, 2011 11:20 PM EST up reply actions
The only way it makes sense is if they can get a younger MLB ready pitching prospect with an equally high ceiling and a low-level guy.
Because of Niese’s injury history, they may be afraid he’ll never be able to pitch 175 innings.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
Off the top of my head
Manny Banuelos from the Yankees would fit that mold plus someone like J.R. Murphy or maybe even Austin Romine.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
Yeah, that should have been Banuelos and Murphy or maybe even Banuelos and Romine.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
Banuelos is untouchable it seems
No way we get banuelos even if it was just him straight up.
I think something more like Romine, Phelps, Nunez. That fills catcher, back-end starter, and infielder…
We have leverage.
Ask Boston what’s up and see what the Yankees say then.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
They should be shopping Davis and Niese.
In fact, they should be shopping everyone at this point. Good GM’s don’t sit status quo with their teams. A GM should be trying to figure out the value of their players all the time and if by some chance, a GM throws you a crazy offer, then you jump on it.
I love Davis and Niese. I think they’ll be part of Mets teams for years to come but at the same time, we’re not talking Clayton Kershaw and Joey Votto here. If you can get something ridiculous in return from a GM who just lost out on Albert Pujols or CJ Wilson, for instance, there’s no reason not to test the market, at the very least.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
But
For a team in financial straits, as they say they are, trading your cheap, cost controlled players doesn’t seem like the best move to make. Niese and Davis are established (although still fairly inexperienced) starters who we’ve seen succeed during the rigors of a MLB season. We know we can put them into the roster and get results. If we trade, say for more prospects, who do we then field to take their spots on the roster? We’d either have to spend to fill those spots or call up inferior talent from the minors to fill those roles. Trading the YOUNG pieces on the team is a punt move IMO.
These guys are part of the youth movement we have that we think can get us contending again as soon as 2013. If we are trading these pieces, when is the front office looking to realistically contend? I would have to say a few more years into the future. The key here is finding ways to move the big contracts for whatever we can get if it’s at all possible. I cannot sit here and accept trading more and more young talent while Santana and Bay’s contracts just continue to fester on the roster. That’s the exact opposite of the process we are putting our trust in.
Am I the only one that's okay with punting 2012 if it'll make the team better in the near future?
The youth of Niese and Davis is what makes them attractive trade chips. If you can get good prospects in return, I don’t think winning a few more games this season should stand in the way of that.
You better be damn sure you hit with the prospects you pick up from the trade.
Dear friends, please temporarily stop your footsteps To our website Walk
around A look at Maybe you’ll find happiness in your sight shopping heaven and earth You’ll find our price is more suitable for you.
Exactly
Let’s remember that these are all prospects, and you’ll trading away known talent that is still young and cost-controlled- essentially what you want these prospects to turn into. So you may not just be punting 2012. If most of these prospects don’t pan out, whether it be the ones you traded for or the ones we already or some combination of both, then where does the team stand in 2013? Or 2014, etc.?
Of course, if you stock pile enough talent you are lowering the risk in going this route, but it’s still not a sure thing. I’d rather keep the young, cheap and TALENTED players we have now, and find ways to siphon off the bloated contracts that are still here so we can put more of that cheap, cost-controlled young talent on the field.
by MetsCity on Dec 7, 2011 5:32 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Sure.
You’d obviously have to heavily believe in your scouting system and have some good luck for it to work, but I think trying to capitalize on the value of young players who aren’t stars (like Davis and Niese) is a good thing to do, in theory. A huge part of their value right now is just that—because they are young and still cheap. Obviously it depends what the return is but I’d have to assume they’re looking for bluechip future stars in return and nothing less.
I think it also depends on what the ceiling for each of these players is. Is Ike Davis the next Joey Votto, the next Adam LaRoche or the next Lyle Overbay? Similar question with Niese. I’m sure the front office has a projection on what he could become. The point is, they’re obviously on the lookout for big time talent. If some front office obliges, then why not consider it?
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Dec 7, 2011 5:47 PM EST up reply actions
It's not like Ike and Niese are crusty veterans
They should be part of their future. If you get any younger than them, you’re getting totally unknown quantities.
"I only wanted a few things out of life -- a wife, children, to play baseball and to hunt deer." - Turk Wendell
I wouldn't move Davis because he has elite upside
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
im ok with punting 2012 in the form of Niese being traded
but as far as Davis goes, you keep him around because 1. young power hitters like him don’t come around as often as #3 or even #2 starters, which is where Niese’s ceiling is. 2. Niese doesn’t fit in with the long-term plans as well as Davis does, with Harvey, Wheeler, Familia, and Mejia being here within 3 years (very optimistic, i know) and even if only 2 live up to their potential and the other 2 become #3 or #4 starters (or God forbid a generation K situation) Niese will probably be traded later and the market may not be as good then, whereas if Davis is gone, Murphy can’t provide the power expected from the first base position and will provide defense worse than Ike’s. 3. If we sell high on Niese and get a catching prospect that’s actually worth a damn, we might be competitive by the time the big 4 and Nimmo, etc. reach the bigs and we can have some sustained success.
"Anybody with ability can play in the big leagues. But to be able to trick people year in and year out the way I did, I think that was a much greater feat." -Bob Uecker
"Who is the girl in the dugout, with the long hair? What's going on here? You have got to be kidding me. Only player personnel in the dugout. I won't say that women belong in the kitchen, but they don't belong in the dugout." -Kieth Hernandez
rebuilding is the name of the game at this point
"Anybody with ability can play in the big leagues. But to be able to trick people year in and year out the way I did, I think that was a much greater feat." -Bob Uecker
"Who is the girl in the dugout, with the long hair? What's going on here? You have got to be kidding me. Only player personnel in the dugout. I won't say that women belong in the kitchen, but they don't belong in the dugout." -Kieth Hernandez
It's nuts to trade Niese who has an upside of a #2 or 3
because you think that all four of our minor league starters are going to pan out. Niese is young, good, and cheap…there’s no reason to trade him. Sandy can listen all he wants, but I don’t think anyone is going to offer him something randomly outrageous for him.
"I only wanted a few things out of life -- a wife, children, to play baseball and to hunt deer." - Turk Wendell
oh, i completely agree that nobody is going to offer something outrageous
but if they do, you have to take it
"Anybody with ability can play in the big leagues. But to be able to trick people year in and year out the way I did, I think that was a much greater feat." -Bob Uecker
"Who is the girl in the dugout, with the long hair? What's going on here? You have got to be kidding me. Only player personnel in the dugout. I won't say that women belong in the kitchen, but they don't belong in the dugout." -Kieth Hernandez
i think this is the whole point
throw him out there, if something blows him away then take that but if not now you know how niese looks to these other teams.
Giants Mets, JPP is a MONSTER
Niese doesn't make sense
because of the hand he signs his name with. All our top pitching prospects are right handed… we need a lefty or two.
I'm fine with that
But a 25 year old first baseman with gold glove defense and 30+ homer potential should be on this team for the future. You don’t trade that, you build around it.
by Evan_S on Dec 7, 2011 7:21 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
If you shop your young players as they're coming up
What’s point in even building a farm system? Makes no sense to me. If they’re shopping one of them it should be Duda, or (even if I hate it) Wright.
SELL THE METS
From what I've read
they’re looking to acquire more prospects to group together and have them all come up from the minors around the same time (2013/2014ish). That way, they’re all under team control for about 6 years from that point and you’ve got a wide open window of time to compete. While Niese and Davis are still young, they’re going to start getting more expensive soon as they’re both arbitration eligible for the first time after 2012.
I think ultimately, they’re not going to get dealt but it certainly doesn’t hurt to test the waters and see if a GM goes nuts. Like I said…they’re good players but I don’t think either one is necessarily a superstar (or going to be). While it’s risky to deal them, it’s much easier to find a good enough first baseman or mid-rotation starter should you need one. I’m assuming they’re looking for legitimate franchise anchor players in return.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Dec 7, 2011 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
I thought that player could be Ike
I’m not sure how long I can stick around here if I have to be in a revolving door of prospects.
SELL THE METS
You could say the same about Jose Reyes or any prospect who was here and left.
Every major league player at one point was a prospect. I don’t think this is about being a revolving door of prospects. I think it’s about them finding the right prospects that fit the team’s needs best and then developing them into the core of a big league team. It’s a leap of faith for sure, but I trust this front office to evaluate the talent correctly.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Dec 7, 2011 5:51 PM EST up reply actions
but if they are going to trade someone of that ilk
then it seems obvious that it should be Duda instead, as his value relative to his peak value is way higher than Ike’s right now; because Ike is coming off of a nearly season long injury, whereas Duda just had a good 2nd half and can still be shopped as a 1B/OF – he may prove to not represent a viable option in the OF any longer
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
Yup, although I think strangely Duda's a bit less of a known at this point and thus less valued.
He’s a little older than Davis, didn’t have the same prospect fanfare coming up through the system (Davis being a 1st rounder, Duda a 7th rounder) and overall, might be seen as more of a fluke than Davis (not to mention the difference in defense). But you’re right…Duda’s certainly another guy who can be shopped. He’s also got the advantage of having a full 6 years of team control at this point, since he didn’t play all of last year in the majors (he’s not a free agent until 2018).
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Dec 7, 2011 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
he may be unknown to fans
but good GMs/FOs took notice, or had good enough scouts to take notice, of what Duda has been doing over the past two seasons (albeit mostly in AAA). Plus, if Sandy were actively shopping him, it wouldn’t take much time for a GM to do a little research and form an opinion on him
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
Maybe.
The wildcard is obviously his plus defense, which gives his value a nice boost. He’s got big time power and plate discipline, though he strikes out a bit much and that’ll limit his batting average. Again, I’m not saying I would trade him or Niese but I’d certainly ask around and check in with other teams. No reason not to, really. And it doesn’t look like they were really shopping him anyway, as it’s been roundly denied by the Mets.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Dec 7, 2011 6:05 PM EST up reply actions
Is it really prudent to go all in on your prospects
It strikes me as fool hardy to believe that an Org can be that confident in their evaluations that they could plan to have a group of successful young player all develope within the same rang of time, and in sufficient numbers (nine positions and five rotations spots) to make an impact.
It appears to me that Ike and Niese are teh guys that could provide roster stability while the kids we have come up. I ultimatley don’t belief the Mets were trying to trade away Ike. It just doesn’t make any sense. I could see the logic with Niese. You can potentially haul in a lot for a young, cheap, productive, lefty arm.
I would like to see what their plans are for Anderlin Rodriguez. If they move him to first then perhaps Ike could be shown the door.
Dear friends, please temporarily stop your footsteps To our website Walk
around A look at Maybe you’ll find happiness in your sight shopping heaven and earth You’ll find our price is more suitable for you.
Why would they get rid of Ike
so Aderlin could play 1st? That isn’t an upgrade at all.
SELL THE METS
We actually don't know that right now.
I think the operative word in my statement is “could”, as in that is the only guy in our system that could potentially replace Ike at first. Maybe Marte? Maybe Flores if he starts filling out like Miggy Cabrera, and starts hitting hrs.
I am not proposing that they should have Anderlin replace Ike. Anderline still has something to prove. Ike has legit HR power, which is something we don’t have much of on our MLB roster. I was just cooking up a scenario in which they could move Ike.
Dear friends, please temporarily stop your footsteps To our website Walk
around A look at Maybe you’ll find happiness in your sight shopping heaven and earth You’ll find our price is more suitable for you.
it is Aderlin Rodriguez
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
I agree.
I don’t see them dealing Davis either though I could see Niese being a definite possibility. He’s a nice pitcher but he’s not going to be a number one. We often point to his FIP as a sign that he’ll get better but there are pitchers who routinely undershoot their peripherals (Ricky Nolasco comes to mind). If you could get a big bundle for him, I’d definitely consider it with all of the potentially better pitching we have on the way (knock on wood).
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Dec 7, 2011 6:26 PM EST up reply actions
Why are you mention A Rod?
He is going to repeat at Savannah, he may as well be light years away from affecting this team
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
Ike Davis can be a beast
Shopping him is absolutely retarded, he could very well become Joey Votto or Adrian Gonzalez-esque. And Niese is a young left handed pitcher who should be a solid number two for a while. If you can get a boatload of prospects for Niese, fine, but no way should we be shopping Davis
Shopping him is absolutely retarded
Really? If Texas puts Profar on the table, Sandy is going to listen.
Oh pissing blimey there's jam coming out of the walls!
And that would be a stupid trade.
He’s 19 and in A ball, way too much could go wrong while we, more or less, know what we have with Davis. Throw in Perez or Erlin and we’ll talk.
Didn't they trade Erlin to the Padres?
If they offer Profar I’d accept instantly. He could definitely make the pain of losing Jose much less
Yeah, my bad
I forgot they traded a left handed 20 year old in AA who has never had a walk rate higher than 1.38 and k rate below 8.24 and FIP above 3.53 for a reliever.
Talk about a steal for the Pads there. On the bright side, the Mets now have two guys comparable to Mike Adams, maybe we can get prospects like this for Francisco and Ramirez. Maybe Rauch has a bounce back year as well.
all prospects are risky
but Profar is easily the best SS prospect in baseball and has all the tools and stats to indicate star potential. Legit SS prospects, nevermind elite SS prospects are pretty rare.
by secret defense on Dec 7, 2011 9:42 PM EST up reply actions
He hit .286/.390/.493 as an 18 year old in A ball with
a 63:65 K:BB ratio and 37 doubles, 8 triples and 12 home runs. And he’s a shortstop. That’s a ridiculously talented and valuable player. You can find solid first baseman. You don’t find shortstops like that often.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Dec 7, 2011 9:42 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah I'd trade anybody on the Mets straight up for Profar
not a hard decision at all. Whoever said they’d keep Davis over Profar is nuts.
by robotoverlord on Dec 7, 2011 10:35 PM EST up reply actions
I'd give my left nut for Profar
But he’s more the kind of prospect that gets included in a deal for a Joey Votto type, not Ike Davis or my testicles.
SELL THE METS
What if Daniels really needed a testicle?
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 7, 2011 11:22 PM EST up reply actions
what about if we gave them Ike Davis dog too?
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
I love prospects as much as teh next guy, buy I don't think you understand how they work
He’s 19 going into advanced A. He is far from a sure thing to be great. The chances of him having one season as good as Davis is slim. How many guys in Low A even have a competent second pitch? There’s a reason he’s not gonna be starting in the majors next year, and that’s because he’s an unknown quantity. There are probably dozens of guys with similar numbers at the same age who never did anything significant, Fernando Martinez being one (albeit in a smaller sample size). He’s had one really excellent season in the minors, he certainly has high upside, and there’s the chance he can’t hit a decent curveball because hasn’t seen one consistently yet. To trade a 24 year player with a 3 win season in his rookie year, and looked like he was ready to break out last season for a kid in A ball is insane.
And for fun, guess the shortstop, would you trade Ike Davis for him?
20 years old A+ ball
100 games, 455 PA, 21 home runs, 3 triples, 26 doubles, 12/18 SB/CS, 7.7 BB%, 18.0 K%, .231 ISO, .326/.382/.557 .414 wOBA.
By the way,
scratch out that second part of the subject line, reading it back, it came out meaner than I intended. Woke up from a nap and a bit cranky.
Well, Reid Brignac played in the hitters haven known as the California Leage
while Profar played in the far more neutral South Atlantic League. Brignac also didn’t have quite as good physical tools nor contact ability and plate discipline as Profar, Reid’s 2006 stats were boosted by a .363 BABIP.
by secret defense on Dec 8, 2011 12:37 AM EST up reply actions
Yup.
And aside from the Cal League being a hitters’ paradise, Brignac was 20 when he put up that inflated line. Profar put up those numbers at the age of 18 in the SAL and had a better than 1:1 BB:K ratio. A 12.6 BB% and a 12 K%. That’s incredible for an 18 year old at any professional level, much less full season ball. He’s currently considered the best SS prospect in baseball as an 18 year old. I love Ike Davis but you’d be pretty nuts to turn that deal down. That’s a superstar in the making right there.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Dec 8, 2011 12:56 AM EST up reply actions
A superstar at least 2, probably 3 years away
So you’re forgoing a 2 or 3 seasons with absolutely not return at the major league level in the hopes that this kid turns out to be a star. It just makes no business sense whatsoever. Profar is so far off and so young, you have no idea what you are getting. You can’t possibly predict how he’ll perform at higher levels, it only gets harder and one excellent season can always be an outlier.
Furthermore, if we were to trade Ike for Profar, we’re basically tossing not just 2012, but 2013 and 2014 as well. We’d be losing a young, cost controlled player with all star upside for a young cost controlled player with superstar upside, but deferred three seasons. Honestly, what is more likely, Ike Davis becomes a consistent 5 win player, or Profar becomes a consistent 7 win player? Because for this trade to work out for us, for the time we’re losing, Profar has to be substantially better than Davis year in, year out since he is a significantly higher risk.
Yeah, I'm not sure I would make that deal
Ike is a star right now and the Mets should build around him for the most part. I don’t like the idea of letting prospects develop and make it big just to trade them for more prospects.
SELL THE METS
Also known as the Pirates plan
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 8, 2011 2:00 AM EST up reply actions
yeah, but you still knew exactly what I meant
and until the Pirates can make a decent run (which I think is coming soon), I’ll continue to make jokes at their expense, because, come on, we have to have SOMEONE to make fun of right?
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 8, 2011 2:16 AM EST up reply actions
well the Astros ran away from the NL, so they're not as much fun
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 8, 2011 2:33 AM EST up reply actions
we still have the inevitable firesale to laugh at
they are trying to put together a 1 year super team in a year we aren’t really expected to contend anyway. Every star that they add just adds more pressure to get to and win the WS before the Miami fans realize they would rather be watching the big three hoop it up then the flamboyant 25 poop it up
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
given the team's financial situation
it would take a lot of luck and good moves for this team to compete in the next 2-3 year anyway. 1B is one position this team actually have depth in, whereas you have no clue if you can develop a SS of Reyes’ caliber in the next decade.
by secret defense on Dec 8, 2011 2:41 AM EST up reply actions
And you have no idea if Profar can be that caliber a player either. He looks good after one season.
But it basically comes down to, would you rather keep the guy who is a 4-5 WAR player now who is young and cheap, or trade him for someone who may become a 6-7 WAR player 2, 3, even 4 or 5 years from now. If you’re trading a known quantity for an unknown quantity, you need something else to mitigate the risk. I’m not saying I wouldn’t trade Davis for Profar, I just wouldn’t do it straight up.
Davis for Profar is basically risk free for the Rangers. They’re a win now team and they get a guy who at worst should hit 20 homers, will walk a good amount, play gold glove defense at first and at least be league average with potential to be much more. And they have that player for another four (or five? does DL time count towards arbitration clock?) seasons at reasonable cost. They lose a guy who isn’t going to help them win anytime soon, and may never even make the majors.
And as a rule, I believe it’s silly and naive to expect any prospect to put up all star caliber numbers, especially when they’ve yet to see anything above the Sally league. It’s never wise to expect the best case scenario and if Profar doesn’t become a star shortstop, this is a useless trade for the Mets that sets them back three years in developing a contender.
If the Rangers throw in Perez, then great, do it. At least then you have two chances to make up the value lost by trading Davis.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves. It's not at all clear that Ike "IS" a 4-5 WAR player
He could easily prove to be a guy who had a bit of a lucky run and is more of a 1-3 WAR player going forward.
Profar is very very young and low level, but he’s already widely considered a top-5 prospect in baseball. I don’t know what the success rate is for prospects like him but he’s the type of player that probably would just never ever be traded at this point in his career, simply because his upside and downside are so large that both GMs would be very aware that there’s a large chance one of them comes out looking like a monstrous fool in 3 years.
As for whether you or I would do that trade in the abstract, that’s just a matter of what type of gambler you are.
Top 10 hitters have around 25% chance to become everyday players and 15% of becoming stars.
This is basically rolling the dice on 15% chance that he’ll be better than Ike.
In lobby for: Jaime Cevallos, Zack Lutz, orange unis and Rickroll as the 7th inning song.
The Unwritten Rules of AA
That doesn't sound right to me
Just glanced through the hitters in the BA top 10 for 5 years (2003-2007).
Out of 34 names, I’d say 10-14 are stars (Longoria, Reyes, Mauer, Hanley, etc) and another 10-14 everyday players (Brandon Phillips, Rickie Weeks, Stephen Drew), with the last 7-10 being the Delmon Youngs and Lastings Milledges.
Unless that was an unusually fertile period for top 10 prospects, I’d say your stat is pretty pessimistic.
It was a study made by HT, considering the period of 1990-1999.
Another 10% of bust and 50% of contributors. Even though they use WAB, I’m translating that as
contributors: around 2 WAR
everyday: 2-4 WAR
stars: >4 WAR
In lobby for: Jaime Cevallos, Zack Lutz, orange unis and Rickroll as the 7th inning song.
The Unwritten Rules of AA
Scouting has improved over the past decade
especially for high school level players.
by secret defense on Dec 8, 2011 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
Year to year, there is some selection bias, as the busts move out of the list.
In lobby for: Jaime Cevallos, Zack Lutz, orange unis and Rickroll as the 7th inning song.
The Unwritten Rules of AA
In any case, it would be interesting if they recreated that study with the last 10 years.
Can’t really say if it was scouting, a better crop of prospects or if the difference really increased that much.
In lobby for: Jaime Cevallos, Zack Lutz, orange unis and Rickroll as the 7th inning song.
The Unwritten Rules of AA
He was a 3.5 WAR player to begin with
And only looked better in the short time he played last year. So unless this injury really regresses him, he should be around a 4 win player.
I'd love for that to be true
But you could argue that he played over his head and was poised to regress big-time when he got hurt. Certainly it’s a real possibility that has to factor into his value. We won’t know until he has more than 652 AB on the back of his baseball card.
Why are we shopping the cost control talent on this team
Get creative and move Bay.
Probably because they're the only players people want.
No one wants Jason Bay. That kind of makes it hard to trade him. The Mets are looking for valuable pieces for the future, and no one is going to give up anything valuable for Bay.
Maybe they could've swaped Bay for Street
Colorado wanted to dump Street saying they would eat 90% of the contract. Ok take Bay straight uo then. Saving money plus a yr at $18 million.
But if that was even a remote possibility,
they would’ve done it. Do you really think that this front office is not looking for any and every way possible to rid themselves of Jason Bay and his contract? Nobody wants him because he’s horrible. That’s the bottom line.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Dec 7, 2011 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
Just because we think of it we can't assume the FO already
explored it. Toronto’s manager moved the worst contract in Baseball. It can be done. You have to get creative and find ways. Hopefully they checked in with all the GM’s and not just SF, SD, and Toronto
It's already been reported that no one is interested in Bay
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
anyway
SF would be the team to check in with about a veteran former star
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
That could only work if they have a dumb GM
Oh wait…
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
Sorry - they're done
The Giants won’t re-sign Carlos Beltran or Cody Ross this winter, GM Brian Sabean told reporters, including John Shea of the San Francisco Chronicle (Twitter link).
Here are some other Sabean highlights from Shea and Baggarly:
The Giants’ payroll is maxed out. They’ll have to decide whether to tender a contract to Jeff Keppinger or Mike Fontenot, since they can only afford to retain one. With the help of Matt Swartz, MLBTR projected Fontenot to earn about half as much as Keppinger, so Fontenot may have the edge.
Bay ain’t going anywhere ’till mid-season and even then only if he pops his share over the cozier left-field wall.
don't apologize to me
I was never kidding myself that the Mets could dump Bays contract
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
you cant move Bay alone. But you can throw
him in with a high asset like Davis. kinda like florida did with Lowell to boston. Depends how good your GM is. If your GM is laughing about reyes walking and saying he should give him a box of chocolates then yea probably not gonna get done.
No
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 7, 2011 10:31 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
cmon be rational
the only way you could move bay is either take on an equally onerous contract or give away a really good prospect. Just be patient and platoon the guy — you get decent performance that doesnt hurt the team and keep the option from vesting.
by robotoverlord on Dec 7, 2011 10:38 PM EST up reply actions
Ike Davis a "throw-in" with Bay?
Are you kidding?
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Dec 7, 2011 10:47 PM EST up reply actions
I jokingly made a comment about this on the other post
But we should not sacrifice Ike Davis just to rid ourselves of Bay – and there is no way you are comparing Josh Beckett to Ike Davis, right? We would get nothing back in return, but I would guess that there are a couple of AL teams willing to discuss that deal
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
Bad trade.
Bay (16) Davis (400k) = 8 million each. I would give them each that so, its a bad idea to trade Davis to dump Bay.
why would any team take that deal?
The ridiculously lopsided in our favor
by Mike Clemente on Dec 7, 2011 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
I think it was Sherman who reported earlier that
not a single team has even slight interest in Jason Bay. Let’s face it…they’re stuck with him until he starts hitting or the contract mercifully comes to an end.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Dec 7, 2011 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
or he retires to avoid further embarassment
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
Labeling the improbable and nonsensical
as “creative” is not a way to start an argument in your favor. Bay’s deal is an albatross that we’re going to in all likelihood have to see through to the bitter end.
"Intelligence is not a genetic predisposition. Think stupid!!"
by Wright of passage on Dec 7, 2011 7:42 PM EST up reply actions
The mets are looking for a catcher, inflieder and prospects for niese
According to heyman
so what you are saying
is that Niese will stay a Met, because Heyman knows nothing
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
Trust the Process ©
Though if SM Sandy is going to traid Nose, he must absolutely and undoubtedly win this by a landslide and merciless exploit the other GM.
In lobby for: Jaime Cevallos, Zack Lutz, orange unis and Rickroll as the 7th inning song.
The Unwritten Rules of AA
by Michkin on Dec 7, 2011 6:16 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Yes
Dear friends, please temporarily stop your footsteps To our website Walk
around A look at Maybe you’ll find happiness in your sight shopping heaven and earth You’ll find our price is more suitable for you.
I'm hoping we get vampires or something
by psiogen on Dec 7, 2011 6:29 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
vampires have great tools
and they never get hurt due to their regenerative abilities, so Ray Ramirez can go take a hike.
by secret defense on Dec 7, 2011 9:45 PM EST up reply actions
We'll have pretty extreme day/night splits
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 7, 2011 10:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Unless they're Twilight vampires.
In which case, I would definitely be done with the Mets.
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 7, 2011 11:23 PM EST up reply actions
if they're True Blood vamps
then I suggest we use a bunt strategy and let them run around the bases before the ball hits the ground. We would also have a perfect game every time, as no ball would hit the ground – they could jump in front of homeplate as the guy was hitting the ball and block it
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
knowing our medical/training staff, they'd prescribe garlic pills to them for cholesterol and circulation
and kill the lot of them
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 7, 2011 11:41 PM EST up reply actions
Only if the vampire is Lizzy Caplan.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
Wouldn't True Blood vampires be too busy having sex with everything in sight to concentrate on the game?
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 8, 2011 12:49 AM EST up reply actions
Wow, I read Nose
as if it was Jose with a N. Thought it was a new Reyes nickname.
Darrelle Revis once won a game of Connect Four in three moves.
NO!
Dont TRAID Niese
Mets, Jets, Devils, United Football League
by BlueChill on Dec 7, 2011 6:48 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Apparently the Red Sox are interested
I’d charge Lavarnway, Reddick, Lowrie and a pitching prospect.
i'd pull the trigger on that one, i'd even throw in Bay for free
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 7, 2011 7:02 PM EST up reply actions
I'd just give him Bay anyway
for a bag of baseballs. As long as they pick up the price tag.
Now, kids, being eaten by a crocodile is just like going to sleep; in giant blender.
Hm, then you can go to the Yankees and see if they'll top it
with what I suggested up top: Banuelos and Romine plus.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
Keith
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 7, 2011 7:33 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Well the Jays just dealt their #1 pitching prospect so I don't know what they'd be able to offer besides Travis D'Arnaud or Carlos Perez.
Maybe Noah Syndergaard?
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
Travis D'Arnaud will do
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
If AA gives up D’Arnaud us Jays fans will riot.
My rambling tweets
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing - Vince Lombardi
I thought that Canadians never riot about anything that isn't hockey related
Also, if you do, please post it on YouTube.
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
haha you’re right. We’ll probably write angry letters and blog posts instead.
My rambling tweets
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing - Vince Lombardi
Interested to hear what a Jays fan thinks about Perez.
I really like him (enough that I acquired him in both of my offseason plans the last two years).
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
Me too
Perez seems to me like a Yadier Molina in the making. Great arm, good instincts, good defensively. Not a lot of power in the bat but he can make contact.
Bobby Baseball - The future of Amazin' Avenue.
by Bobby Baseball on Dec 7, 2011 9:09 PM EST up reply actions
Freom what I've read
his power profile seems similar to that of Puello’s. The capacity is believed to be there, he just hasn’t really shown it yet.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
He sounds like he could be good but for the Jays he’s expendable if the right deal comes along. They have a young catcher in Arencibia, who’s basically a placeholder for d’Arnaud. Perez definitely seems to be trade bait. The Jays are pretty set at catcher (Hell they gave up Napoli for nothing because they were so confident).
I’ve seen Perez as high as 8th in the Jays prospect rankings and as low as 21. Right now I think the future is d’Arnaud as starting catcher and Jiminez (Dunedin Blue Jays catcher) with both Arencibia and Perez traded.
My rambling tweets
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing - Vince Lombardi
That's what I thought which is why I targeted him in my offseason plans (yay vindication!).
In my opinion a swap for 3B Jefry Marte makes sense. He’s similar in that he’s seen as a fringe top-10 guy and projection heavy, but he profiles manly as a power threat. Chances are that he can’t stick at 3B and moves to 1B because he has heavy feet but he’s supposed to have decent hands. It makes sense for the two parties involved because we’re filled with 3B/1B guys and like you said, you guys are stacked with catchers.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
Niese is part of the Future
Do you think in 3 or 4yrs when we might be respectable that Dickey will be on this team? Hate to say it but he might bring back more than Niese would. He can take over for Wakefeild in Boston. He’s a fan favorite but so was Reyes. Everybody can be had.
He's a solid #2 starter that teams need
And won’t be on this team when we are done rebuilding. So it does make sense. Affordable #2 starter has some value
Heresy!
Praise thy Dickey!
only thing more overated and soft than osi umenyora is the 2011 eagles
by metseaglesknicks on Dec 7, 2011 8:16 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
As much as I hate to say it, if we are punting 2012 then it really makes a lot of sense to trade Dickey.
Maybe send him to the Yankees, so this way he can still grace the presence of New York
Bobby Baseball - The future of Amazin' Avenue.
by Bobby Baseball on Dec 7, 2011 9:10 PM EST up reply actions
Latest on Niese and Murph
McCulloughSl
Heard the Mets are absolutely listening to offers for Murphy and Niese. But their asking price is high, and right now no deal is imminent.It was described to me as more “listening” than “shopping,” if that makes sense. If the deal is right, of course, they’ll do it.
As a Jays fan
I only know Niese from what I’ve read about him (Mostly since these rumours began). Looking at his stats and comparables at his age he looks to be a great prospect (not that I’d ever want the Jays to pay the reported asking price – unless that catcher the Mets want is Jeff Mathis).
As Mets fans, who’ve seen him pitch, what do you like/not like about him?
My rambling tweets
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing - Vince Lombardi
Lots to like about him
Almost impossible to steal a base against Niese. He has improved every season, if ever so slightly. His best pitch is his 12-6 curveball. He gets in trouble when he falls in love with his cutter and neglects his curve. He seems like a grounded individual. And he’s a southpaw, which is always a plus.
The one downside is that he has yet to get all the way through an MLB season. Each has ended with a minor injury. If he is able to improve his conditioning, he could be a workhorse capable of consistently posting 4.0+ fWAR seasons.
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
Also he has consistently refined his cutter.
In lobby for: Jaime Cevallos, Zack Lutz, orange unis and Rickroll as the 7th inning song.
The Unwritten Rules of AA
also
his intensity and demeanor on the mound is awesome – I see nothing but confidence in himself
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
He really seems like a guy who hates to let base runners score.
Not that any pitcher likes it, but you get what I mean.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
"Capable of posting 4WAR seasons" +cost controlled for 4 more years.
In lobby for: Jaime Cevallos, Zack Lutz, orange unis and Rickroll as the 7th inning song.
The Unwritten Rules of AA
He has gone games with only letting up one or two hits
But also has an injury history
I'm very confient he'll be a #2.
Think Andy Pettitte.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
Could work, especially considering the Jays just traded Nestor Molina to the White Sox, who at his ceiling might be a #2
My rambling tweets
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing - Vince Lombardi
He's a solid strikeout pitcher who doesn't walk many.
His biggest problem is that he allows a lot of hits and has always had high BABIPs (and BAA) because while his secondary stuff is solid, his fastball is kind of straight and sits low-90’s, so it’s easy to square up. He’s also had trouble throwing with durability (he was terrible in August/September 2010 and missed the end of last year with a rib cage injury). He’s got 4 more years of team control (through 2015).
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Dec 7, 2011 10:09 PM EST up reply actions
Morrow was like that with the straight fastball (Although his was much faster). He’s adapted to giving it some movement, though he’s lost some velocity.
Guys who throw straight fastballs always worry me, no matter how fast, because all a good hitter needs to do is figure out the timing, which many do in one or two at bats.
That being said the 4 more years of team control is something I’m sure Anthopoulos loves.
My rambling tweets
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing - Vince Lombardi
The Marlins are like the kid who was in private school his whole life
And now he’s in college and going way overboard with drugs/alchohol/sex, they don’t even need CJ Wilson..
only thing more overated and soft than osi umenyora is the 2011 eagles
by metseaglesknicks on Dec 7, 2011 8:17 PM EST reply actions
The Twitter rumor mill now has Boston and San Diego out
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
I don't think the Phillies would do that
They were willing to do that for Gio Gonzalez…
Maybe
But is seems pretty clear that GMs don’t yet see that in Niese.
Gio has the stench of Ollie Perez on him
But he has the triple crown stats that although GMs shouldn’t care about but somehow still drive up his value.
SELL THE METS
Gio has two consecutive >3 fWAR seasons.
Perez only had one. I doubt he becomes useless like Ollie did.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
No
I have no real basis for this statement, but I have a hunch he will be a big bust
Bobby Baseball - The future of Amazin' Avenue.
by Bobby Baseball on Dec 7, 2011 9:13 PM EST up reply actions
He'd have to be given playing time, first
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 7, 2011 10:35 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Is this the rumor that was already debunked?
http://www.metsblog.com/2011/12/07/pirates-want-ike-davis-mets-price-is-high/
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Dec 7, 2011 9:50 PM EST reply actions
Man
That would not be a good return at all for Ike. No reason at all to pull the trigger on that deal.
The only thing I can think of is that his ankle is totally fucked thanks to our medical staff.
It’s the only reason I can think of. Ike has proven he’s a major leauger with potential to be a stud.
Let's go have a beer, Doc.
Proud inventor of the "Oh Brett" meme.
by Crazy Nyce Dave on Dec 7, 2011 9:59 PM EST up reply actions
Seriously, if they do this I'm going to punch and kick stuff
and then become a full-time Ray fan
SELL THE METS
I'm quitting baseball if it's true
AAARRRRRRRSSSSSHHHHHHHHAAAAAAVVVVVIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNN!
Dream goal!
by Aidan Gibson on Dec 7, 2011 10:01 PM EST up reply actions
So you can leave becasue of Ika
but others can’t because or Reyes?
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
I was joking, god
and are you going to troll me about this forever? I have my reasons.
SELL THE METS
Well you were all over me about being negative about something that actually happened...
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
Why the fuck would we trade Ike David for that?
AAARRRRRRRSSSSSHHHHHHHHAAAAAAVVVVVIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNN!
Dream goal!
Just saw that too
I don’t know. Starling 22/100 bb/k in 536 ABs just turned 23.
Lincoln looks servicable but only 54 Ks in 100 mlb innings. Big drop off from his AAA k-rate.
I can't fathom that the same man who brought us zach Wheeler for 8 weeks of Beltran would make this deal.
Unless Ike is now permently in a wheelchair
Let's go have a beer, Doc.
Proud inventor of the "Oh Brett" meme.
by Crazy Nyce Dave on Dec 7, 2011 10:04 PM EST up reply actions
Not that I put it past the Pirates
But I doubt that Ike would pass the physical at that point
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Dec 7, 2011 10:04 PM EST up reply actions
Good point, friend.
Let's go have a beer, Doc.
Proud inventor of the "Oh Brett" meme.
by Crazy Nyce Dave on Dec 7, 2011 10:05 PM EST up reply actions
If it were the other way around, he totally would.
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 7, 2011 11:27 PM EST up reply actions
With a Vest?
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Dec 8, 2011 12:16 AM EST up reply actions
kind of sad the highlight of the season was trading away one of our best players
even if the return was quite good
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 7, 2011 11:35 PM EST up reply actions
Sounds like we can have Beltran back for peanuts at this point too.
Too bad we don’t have the money and a slot dedicated to Bay.
no way that would happen
or im going to drink myself into a coma
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 7, 2011 11:23 PM EST up reply actions
I think we should be trading for guys like Niese
and not the other way around.
The idea is adding years of cost control
The problem is that Niese might become great next season and get a big raise, but you don’t have the team around him to win 90-95 games. The point is winning championships, not getting to .500. The Mets need to increase their depth, value, options, and years of cost control at C, SS, 2B, CF, etc., to be a consistent contender. If trading Niese helps you do that, that pushes you closer to the goal of championships.
I don’t want a fluke year where the Mets eke out 91 games because everything happened to go well. I want to be good every year.
This makes perfect sense if they're finances are in Marlins territory and they're punting on the next 4 years
one does not simply walk into mordor...unless winter is coming
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Amazin' Avenue
Related FanShots on Amazin' Avenue
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recommended FanShots
Recent FanShots
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
Baseball Nation Recent Stories
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Get a grip: Reds’ Todd Frazier loses bat, still connects for home run (Video)
- Eric Hosmer redefines the Baltimore chop with infield double (Video)
- College player makes impossible over the fence catch to save tournament game (Video)
- Security!: Camden Yards guard collides with Royals’ Mike Moustakas
- The Juice: Nelson Cruz matches career high eight RBIs, Pujols stays hot in Seattle
