Sandy Alderson talks new players, Pagan, and Reyes

Sandy Alderson talks new players, Pagan, and Reyes | MetsBlog.com

"Long-term contracts are what they are. Their history is not great. But some of them turn out very well. It’s really not the right time to get into the issues directly related to Jose. We did what we thought we could do under the circumstances and givcen where we are as a franchise, and the lessons we’ve learned as a franchise, even though he was a home-grown player and a guy we all wanted to keep. We get criticized for not making an offer, but we get criticized if we make an offer and it looks like we’re trying to finish second."

The emphasis is mine.

6 months ago Eric Simon 46 comments 0 recs |

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Comments

Jose got a new girlfriend

but he doesn’t want the old one to hate him, so he’s blaming everything on her dad.

by SuperT on Dec 8, 2011 12:24 AM EST reply actions

soon he realize shes really ugly

It might take some time but hell see it. Well all sit back and laugh and point out our hot new gf…..uh….umm….I miss you jose !!

I hate Philadelphia so much.

by the caveman on Dec 8, 2011 12:36 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs

I love articulate people in public jobs

I know it’s not a “requirement” but I just try and compare every difficult situation where Alderson gives a sensible and balanced answer and (genuinely) feel bad for the times Omar had to cringe and give his opinion on matters like these.

All he said is true. I guess Reyes has the right to feel a little hurt too, but what Alderson’s said is pretty much spot on.

The idiot formerly known as pkyankeefan! Now in Technicolour!

by Hasan Paliwala on Dec 8, 2011 12:27 AM EST via mobile reply actions

I know what you mean ...

I swear that if I could have bitten my ears own off every time Omar weent into a Tourette’s like spasm of “Uhs”, I would have.

by brooklynlou on Dec 8, 2011 8:52 AM EST up reply actions

Or you can be inarticulate but use a TelePromTer

by tmu on Dec 8, 2011 10:42 AM EST up reply actions

While this is all very true

I still would like to know what would have happened if he had made a formal offer of 5/$75M (or whatever the figure that was rumored to have been their limit) after the Marlins made their initial offer of 4/$80M. Maybe he says “sure, I’ll take a $5M hometown discount” and never gives the Marlins a chance to “blow” everyone else out of the water. Maybe he doesn’t. But at least we would have had a puncher’s chance.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place

by Ogre39666 on Dec 8, 2011 1:14 AM EST reply actions

Not to pump my own tires, but wow compare what I wrote with this guy at Metsblog:

LongTimeFan1
The onus is on Alderson who could have gotten a deal done if he really wanted. Long term contracts totally contrast with his antiquated beliefs and he made sure he wouldn’t have to stretch beyond his comfort zone by not making an offer. Alderson was a U.S. Marine, but these days, he is what he is – a coward. He claims he didn’t want to make an offer so as not to hear it was good enough for second, so he opts for the alternative of wimping out behind some bull conceptualization and lets a beloved superstar homegrown player walk away feeling unwanted.
Don’t let his disposition and manner of communication fool you into thinking he played his hand right and that somehow the blame is elsewhere. Alderson had the opportunity to do the right thing, but chose to do nothing but pass the buck instead..

It’s like people assume if you are going to criticize a course of action or decision, you have to attack on a personal level too.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place

by Ogre39666 on Dec 8, 2011 2:07 AM EST up reply actions

say that to the face of the Marine

see what happens

2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!

by astromets on Dec 8, 2011 9:31 AM EST up reply actions

Nope, no puncher's chance

Sorry. There is absolutely no way in Hades that offer would have been accepted without Reyes having a mollusk for an agent. That’s just the way it is. Alderson is essentially blameless here. But I know that as the season progresses, there’s going to be some sort of myth developing that “we’ll never know if we could have signed him” blah, blah, blah. We know.

by tmu on Dec 8, 2011 8:39 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs

what do you mean?

i’m sure that if when Reyes agent told Alderson that the Marlins were offering 6 years 106 that if Alderson “officially offered” a 5 year 90 million dollar contract and a box of chocolates he would have signed.

by Phildo on Dec 8, 2011 5:05 PM EST up reply actions

I'm talking about before that.

When the Marlins offered their initial offer, it was 4/$80M. If at that time Alderson officially offers 5/$75M, maybe Reyes takes the hometown discount and doesn’t even bother to give Miami the chance to up their offer to 6/$106M.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place

by Ogre39666 on Dec 8, 2011 5:26 PM EST up reply actions

Ctrl+C Cltr+V from other thread

A person close to Reyes told The Post there is almost no chance the shortstop will accept a hometown discount to remain with the Mets. A second person, who regularly spends time with Reyes, indicated the fact the Mets probably aren’t on the cusp of playoff contention may kill the team’s chances of re-signing Reyes.
“I think that might play into [Reyes’] decision more than he let on to anybody,” the person said. Link

About the lack of a formal offer:
Multiple reports indicated that the Mets were dead set on not giving a guaranteed 6th year. The parameters Sandy floated around were around 5years and about 75-85m, maybe a 6th year option.

There were 2 strong suitors for him, Mets and Marlins. I don’t think anyone foresaw the Marlins being in the bid or that they would come out that aggressively and actually sign high ranked FA. Early in the process, many people thought they were making offers to all FA "just for show".

In conclusion, I believe it’s a bit precipitated to criticize how the negotiations proceeded given how we don’t know all the details and the Marlins unexpectedly tossed money around.

In lobby for: Jaime Cevallos, Zack Lutz, orange unis and Rickroll as the 7th inning song.
The Unwritten Rules of AA

by Michkin on Dec 8, 2011 5:41 PM EST up reply actions

Sorry to say it but I think you're naive if you don't think that Reyes' agent

would just take the Mets 5/$75 offer back to the Marlins and say “okay…what’s your next offer?”, which would’ve led to something like the 6/106 he got anyway.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.

by Steve Schreiber on Dec 8, 2011 10:22 PM EST up reply actions

As I originally said

that is a distinct possibility, if not a probability. But at least we would have made them reject it.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place

by Ogre39666 on Dec 8, 2011 10:39 PM EST up reply actions

don’t really think so. He takes the mets offer to the marlins and they raise their offer to what they need to sign them. This is exactly what happened, but without a formal offer.

by Phildo on Dec 8, 2011 11:05 PM EST up reply actions

Reyes sounded like he didn't want to leave

Why not just add that 6 yr with a buyout like the Marlins did? He might’ve taken it. Well never know. All I know is no other team was in on Reyes. If that Marlin staduim was just built one yr earlier or 1 yr later. Typical Mets Fate.

by TheKid08 on Dec 8, 2011 1:26 AM EST reply actions

If you read between the lines of the contract ...

Monetarily. its actually two seperate contracts. A 3 yrs / 36 Million (of which he’ll be a Marlins player) and 3 yrs / 66 Million (of which he’ll be traded to someone else or become the new Marlin owners headache).

I really believe that the Mets didn’t offer him a contract, not because they were afraid of seeming poor, but because knowing what they know about his legs they were afraid he would say yes.

by brooklynlou on Dec 8, 2011 9:03 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs

Oh Dear Christ

The comments on that story…

"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage

by blueandorange4life on Dec 8, 2011 1:32 AM EST reply actions

WTF?

Why are the only two options he’s willing to acknowledge (1) not making an offer and (2) “trying to come in second”? What happened to (3) actually try to make him the best offer?

by anonymous on Dec 8, 2011 1:36 AM EST reply actions 2 recs

the Wilpons happened.

Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?

by KeithsMoustache on Dec 8, 2011 1:45 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs

They weren't getting into a bidding war, first off

and the Wilpons would not allow it

SELL THE METS

by piazza62 on Dec 8, 2011 1:52 AM EST up reply actions

and The Wilpons would not AFFORD it

There, edited for accuracy

by brooklynlou on Dec 8, 2011 9:05 AM EST up reply actions

Nice catch

The Mets were just not in on Jose this year.

"I only wanted a few things out of life -- a wife, children, to play baseball and to hunt deer." - Turk Wendell

by Rey-O on Dec 8, 2011 6:50 AM EST up reply actions

I think the explanation for (3)

is that the actual “best offer” he likely would have been authorized to make would have been a heck of a lot lower than what was rumored, to the extent that it would have made blindingly clear exactly how screwed we are with the ’Pons.

by tmu on Dec 8, 2011 8:45 AM EST up reply actions

I don't care if you're in New York.

If you’re worried about getting criticized or not you have a problem.

Astro Travellin'

by BlackOps on Dec 8, 2011 1:53 AM EST reply actions

this isn't really about being worried about being criticized

His choices were make an insultingly low offer to Jose compared to what was already floating out there, or resign himself to the fact we weren’t getting him and focus on the moves he actually could make.

Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?

by KeithsMoustache on Dec 8, 2011 1:56 AM EST up reply actions

Yeah, I realized it was a dumb/pointless comment after I posted it

It’s a bad feeling!

Astro Travellin'

by BlackOps on Dec 8, 2011 4:10 AM EST up reply actions

I am not sure how I feel yet about all of this

But I am not automatically giving Sandy a pass just yet even though he had to deal with the Wilpons. There is something about the way this went down that sticks in my craw even if letting Reyes walk is what is needed for the long term health of the team. As scary as it is to me, I find myself sort of agreeing with that Metsblog guy.

Also, given what we know now, that the Mets were never reaally in the hunt and Reyes knew it, shame on Reyes, Collins and everyone involved for taking him out of the final game the way they did.

by Endys Game on Dec 8, 2011 5:39 AM EST reply actions 1 recs

The Mets wanted him and made a strong, but constrained, effort to sign him

This is what Sandy said:

"…as late as Saturday morning and through the course of Friday I thought it might be a possibility…. Friday there was an interest in having dialogue based on some of the conceptual ideas that I had floated. There was still interest in doing that Saturday morning. By Saturday evening things had gone way beyond what I had floated apparently."

I think the Mets were interested and working on it, and then the Marlins decided to go way beyond what anyone else would do. And as has been pointed out, not even the Marlins are actually interested in paying him that much, which is why the deal is so heavily backloaded.

Also, Sandy listed yesterday, in the “box of chocolates” talk, the ways they had tried to show love (the reporter’s word) to Reyes in order to woo him back, and the deference they showed him at the end of the season was one of those ways. (What gets reported, of course, is the throwaway box of chocolates line.)

by SuperT on Dec 8, 2011 10:12 AM EST up reply actions

The "Reyes Standard"

As noted, I’m very disappointed the Mets have never kept a home grown star through the bulk of his career. No Jeter, no Bernie Williams, no Posada, no Rivera, etc. I guess they kept Mookie.

But now that they have let Jose go, Met fans should tear them a new one if they turn around do a signing that is inconsistent with this. That means bringing someone in at a similar age on a long term deal in a premium position, let alone at a non-premium position (Bay). Or even keeping someone homegrown (Wright). Particularly a pitcher, given the injury risk (Johan).

by WT Economist on Dec 8, 2011 6:15 AM EST reply actions

Perhaps The Wilpons Are Taking One for the Team Again

The Mets will not contend for years because the Wilpons played along with Seligs voluntary slotting rules while no one else did, and once the Mets decided to go for the draft Selig got it in the CBA.

And perhaps in a decade, we will see the end of guaranteed contracts in excess of two years.

by WT Economist on Dec 8, 2011 6:19 AM EST up reply actions

Don't Mean to be Rude, But This Is Kind of Annoying

by tmu on Dec 8, 2011 8:40 AM EST up reply actions

At least IT isn't like BAYONNE

Where WORDS are CAPITALIZED without any REASON or PATTERN

SELL THE METS

by piazza62 on Dec 8, 2011 8:54 AM EST via mobile up reply actions

WT is not any too logical,

for an economist.

by SuperT on Dec 8, 2011 10:14 AM EST up reply actions

Mookie finished his careee in Toronto.

by graves9 on Dec 8, 2011 2:31 PM EST via mobile up reply actions

I guess he guessed wrong

2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!

by astromets on Dec 8, 2011 3:17 PM EST up reply actions

wow

I’m surprised to see them suggest that Torres will lead off. Happy, but surprised.

The above comment is not affiliated with the San Francisco Giants, is not based on a secret source of team information, and may contain personal opinion.

"I'll never forget San Francisco and all those beautiful moments."- Andres Torres

by natteringnabob on Dec 8, 2011 9:08 AM EST reply actions

I wonder

If there had been blogs back in 1981 what the reaction would’ve been like when Frank Cashen traded Lee Mazzilli, the homegrown local face of the franchise and still only 26, to the Texas Rangers for two minor league pitchers? Of course that trade turned out to be part of the foundation for the Mets’ success in the latter part of the decade.

by kd bart on Dec 8, 2011 9:53 AM EST reply actions

I had a Lee Mazzilli glove

"Sometimes you make a mistake and you get hit in the head." - Eli Manning

by blains2000 on Dec 8, 2011 10:55 AM EST up reply actions

I think there would have been

a lot of misspellings and weird GIFs.

by tmu on Dec 8, 2011 11:32 AM EST up reply actions

Lee Mazzilli also kind of sucked, so there is that

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 8, 2011 5:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs

Probably, I mean he was a good hitter but never should have been in CF

But no one would have agreed with you then.

SELL THE METS

by piazza62 on Dec 8, 2011 7:11 PM EST up reply actions

The team sucked so badly, we thought the condo was the mansion

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 8, 2011 10:40 PM EST via mobile up reply actions

Smell you later, Jose

The Mets never made Jose an offer, but he’s living in La-La Land if he thinks the organization didn’t want him.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 8, 2011 2:53 PM EST via mobile reply actions

I don't know, seems like it's becoming less and less clear they did want him (at market price) every time they open their mouths

by anonymous on Dec 8, 2011 3:01 PM EST up reply actions

I just thought of this for the first time, so apologize if it's not new

but the Florida Marlins are the dumbasses who hated Reyes for dancing and celebrating with all the Mets, they best not be on the sidelines dancing with him all of a sudden

2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!

by astromets on Dec 9, 2011 2:27 AM EST reply actions