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"I think Mejia works really hard to throw the baseball," the pitching coach said. "And I worry about the volume of pitches during the course of a year. You get 30 to 35 starts, and you're throwing 100 pitches each time, every fifth day, I worry. ... You just watch his arm swing. It's a long arm swing. His ball natural cuts -- again, [like] a Mariano Rivera. If Mariano had to go out there and throw 100 pitches every fifth day, when a ball cuts all the time, instead of staying behind it, I think you find a lot of torque on your elbow and your shoulder. But, again, that's a singular opinion. He's a very strong individual."

over 1 year ago 1986-mets-ray-knight_tiny Russ 66 comments 0 recs  | 

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I've got some problems with what Warthen said

The first is that this statement reduces Mejia’s trade value.

The second is that this ambiguity about Mejia should not be something that Mejia hears. He needs to focus on becoming a starter.

The third is that Warthen could be wrong, just like Tommy Lasorda was wrong about Pedro Martinez.

"The Mets are gonna be amazin'!" - Casey Stengel
"Bounding and astounding!" - Clyde Frazier

by Russ on Feb 11, 2011 12:47 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

My thoughts exactly

Why would Warthen share this with the rest of the world?

by James Kannengieser on Feb 11, 2011 1:22 PM EST up reply actions  

lol'd

and so completely off base that i rec’d out of utter confusion.

by Wright of passage on Feb 11, 2011 6:20 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm confused

You know Warthen said that about Maine last year? Just can’t tell from your comment. I assume fx was just joking.

by wobatus on Feb 12, 2011 5:44 PM EST up reply actions  

fx = joking

it’s a constant of the universe

by fxcarden on Feb 12, 2011 10:04 PM EST up reply actions  

The patented Dan Warthen

knee-jerk reaction

"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage

by blueandorange4life on Feb 11, 2011 7:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Because the rest of the world has scouts and video equipment. They will have formulated their own opinion based on their own research. Warthen is a professional pitching coach. The rest of baseball probably has a similar opinion.

by Sylow59 on Feb 12, 2011 11:25 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I don't know if I'd call Warthen professional...

Most Minor League prospect guys I’ve all heard say Mejia has the potential upside of a middle-to-front line starter. Much higher than being a run of the mill relief pitcher.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 12, 2011 2:25 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

No

The Mets organization is not united behind the idea that Mejia is destined to be a reliever, let alone the rest of baseball.

Warthen was complicit in placing Mejia in the bullpen last year. My guess is that he rationalized the move, and began to believe his lie. Combine that with a motor mouth, and we get his view broadcast.

"The Mets are gonna be amazin'!" - Casey Stengel
"Bounding and astounding!" - Clyde Frazier

by Russ on Feb 13, 2011 1:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Yup

We now have the evidence to blame Warthen for the Mejia in the pen fiasco.

Save Jenrry Mejia!

by Ogre39666 on Feb 13, 2011 3:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not sure I believe it will hurt his trade value

Other teams do the whole due diligence thing with their own scouts. Those scouts are going to form their own opinions about Mejia’s “arm swing” and “elbow torque.” Nothing is being pointed out to other organizations by Warthen.

If it has any negative impact at all, I imagine it would be on Mejia’s self esteem.

In general, I don’t believe it is a bad thing to look for potential physical stresses to protect a player’s arm. This is exactly what a pitching coach should be doing (and fixing, if possible).

by TheBigStapler on Feb 11, 2011 2:41 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Let me point out also re: scouting in other organizations

that I’m not an expert and don’t really know what I’m talking about. I just have to assume that professional scouts are experienced enough and keen enough to realize how mechanics affect value.

by TheBigStapler on Feb 11, 2011 2:43 PM EST up reply actions  

It may not effect what other teams believe Mejia's value is

but I think that Warthen’s quote will be thrown at the Mets during negotiations, should the Mets elect to trade him.

"The Mets are gonna be amazin'!" - Casey Stengel
"Bounding and astounding!" - Clyde Frazier

by Russ on Feb 11, 2011 2:43 PM EST up reply actions  

It'll be thrown at them

in conjunction with their own scouts assertions who probably find themselves in agreement with, to whatever degree to begin with. I’ve been trampled on a couple times for daring to say that I believed that Mejia’s starting detractors were right from the get go. Having a closer in waiting is not the worst thing to have. Not especially if you’ve got a big fat contract coming to its end in K-Rod and a much more effective use of that kind of money that could and should be thrown into the rotation one way or another. Maybe loosen up enough pocket change to find yourself in the market for Francisco Liriano?

by Wright of passage on Feb 11, 2011 6:28 PM EST up reply actions  

In addition

Do you think for the sake of Mejia’s prospective value as a starter that we’d perpetuate that idea by keeping him as a starter in the minors with the knowledge and opinion that he’s best suited in the pen? Its just an opinion and the actions that follow would best dictate our true assessment on Mejia anyway.

by Wright of passage on Feb 11, 2011 6:31 PM EST up reply actions  

I think its more than just precieved value Wofpass

when you get someone as talented as Mejia is/was, why waste him in the bullpen right away? wouldn’t serve the team better if they can find out whether or not he can cut it as a starter?

to me, yes the game has changed, but the overvalue of a middle reliever has gotten beyond ridiculous proportions. A good and even decent starter is far more valuable than a middling middle reliever.

that said, you can always switch Mejia back to the pen if the “leave Mejia as a starter for one year at one level” experiment blows up.

"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"

by feslenraster on Feb 11, 2011 7:30 PM EST up reply actions  

This

Were not going to miss out on anything giving Mejia a shot at starting. We already know he’s ineffective as a reliever at this point in his career.

Save Jenrry Mejia!

by Ogre39666 on Feb 11, 2011 7:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I think this is just partly true

Other teams will form their own opinions, but no one knows a prospect better than his own organization. And if the pitching coach for the Mets thinks this guy is a reliever, I have to think other teams who viewed him as a potential starter would at least want to rethink that.

And there’s nothing wrong with him being candid and looking for physical stresses to Mejia’s arm. Just be candid with Alderson/Collins, not with Adam Rubin.

by Bieser's Balk on Feb 11, 2011 3:16 PM EST up reply actions  

You are pretty much spot on Russ

Pretty damn perplexing. Oh, and am I wrong in thinking that having Mejia start would at least allow him to refine his secondary pitches.

I seem to remember that Mejia was sort of bothered by the fact that he could not develop his other pitches, because he would be asked to throw something other than a fastball once a appearance. Not to mention he didn’t make to many appearances.

by Coolpapabell on Feb 12, 2011 9:45 AM EST up reply actions  

here's an idea

let’s shut the hell up and let him start. if he can’t handle it, we’ll find that out and he can be a reliever. this is getting to be a bit ridiculous. he comes up as a starter, but we force him to be a mop up relief guy. then we send him back down to be a starter, but tell him we don’t think he has any future there. just STFU mets

"I only wanted a few things out of life -- a wife, children, to play baseball and to hunt deer." - Turk Wendell

by Rey-O on Feb 11, 2011 12:56 PM EST reply actions  

Weird

Most scouting reports I’ve seen say he has “a clean arm action” or something to that effect, and so he has a decent chance to stick as a starter.

by EricAColucci on Feb 11, 2011 1:39 PM EST reply actions  

Me thinks Sandy should have a little talk with Warthen

There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ

The 2011 Mets- Rock bottom: We haven't reached it yet

by Syler on Feb 11, 2011 1:44 PM EST reply actions  

This

Sandy SMASH!

Save Jenrry Mejia!

by Ogre39666 on Feb 11, 2011 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

the moneyball response

if the manager is of a lesser importance than normal, then the pitching coach is of an even lower importance. someone in the front office will rectify this situation, and they’ve done that by saying that he will stay in the minors as a starter.

What Would Matt Szczur Do?

Fact on Villanova Sports

by Hoyadestroya85 on Feb 11, 2011 2:01 PM EST reply actions  

What a moron

There’s not a single good thing that can come from saying this. I feel like I’m back in JerryWorld.

by Bieser's Balk on Feb 11, 2011 2:11 PM EST reply actions  

FIRE WARTHEN

seriously, why does he still have a job, when everyone else under Omar’s reign was fired? …this kind of idiocy prevailed the past decade. … ugh. maybe next he thinks he can fix LOLie.

"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"

by feslenraster on Feb 11, 2011 2:13 PM EST reply actions  

If it was ever borderline whether Alderson was going to bring him back

this might just be a fire-able offense – which is funny because he also said “I’d just as soon not get in trouble the first day.”

Save Jenrry Mejia!

by Ogre39666 on Feb 11, 2011 2:29 PM EST up reply actions  

It was Fred Wilpon

who insisted that Warthen cannot be fired. Fred is also lobbying hard to keep Omar around for some reason.

by aparkermarshall on Feb 11, 2011 3:13 PM EST up reply actions  

The sooner

Picard can sue the Wilpons into oblivion, the sooner the team can finally improve.

by aparkermarshall on Feb 11, 2011 3:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Make it so, #1

Image credit for Jerrysaurus goes to astromets

by hotspur on Feb 12, 2011 4:28 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Link?

There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ

The 2011 Mets- Rock bottom: We haven't reached it yet

by Syler on Feb 11, 2011 3:43 PM EST up reply actions  

no secret: without someone worse and inept than yourself...you are the open target

look how much douchbaggery has flooded out in the public since Omar’s firing…

"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"

by feslenraster on Feb 11, 2011 4:25 PM EST up reply actions  

goddamnit, i was just coming here to post that exact sentence word for word

well played sir.

Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?

by KeithsMoustache on Feb 11, 2011 3:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Nicely done

I’m sure there is an appropriate de-motivational poster for this, I just need to find it

"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage

by blueandorange4life on Feb 11, 2011 7:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Just weird.

It this came from Sickels, Law or basically anyone not employed by the Mets, I would find it very interesting. Coming from our pitching coach it seems like pure stupidity.

by FrancoTAU on Feb 11, 2011 5:58 PM EST reply actions  

Law on Mejia

Jenrry Mejia, RHP, NY Mets
Missed by: About 30 days
Would have ranked: No. 30-40

    Mejia’s development was arrested, but probably not stalled, by last year’s abortive plan to make him a reliever even though he didn’t have the command to be in the big leagues. He wasn’t awful in the majors, but Mets fans didn’t get much of a sense of how good his raw stuff is; he has the potential for three above-average pitches if he gets the time and innings to figure out how to use them. With sanity ruling the day in the Mets’ front office (if not in the ownership suite), look for Mejia to resume his development as a starter, with his ceiling roughly where it was before the bullpen debacle.

by wobatus on Feb 12, 2011 5:51 PM EST up reply actions  

SNY's very own Rob Steingall has this to say:

“He’ll start in Triple-A to work on secondary pitches and prove his health as a starter, but could wind up in New York quickly if one of the club’s rotation reclamation projects hits the disabled list. Mejia has top-of-the-rotation stuff, but a high-effort delivery could eventually relegate him to a career in the bullpen, where he could excel as an elite closer.”

by Wright of passage on Feb 12, 2011 7:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks, my point was more of if you're a Mets coach than any public statement

should be nice or nothing at all. Law could take a big dump on Mejia if he felt that way truly.

by FrancoTAU on Feb 12, 2011 8:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Got it

Just used that as a jumping off point to show what Law really thinks. His upside is still there, as a top starter.

by wobatus on Feb 16, 2011 7:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Green'd

"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage

by blueandorange4life on Feb 11, 2011 7:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Is that coach K?

What was the cause of the face palm?

by Coolpapabell on Feb 12, 2011 9:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Probably something Mike Dunleavy did

like missing a wide-open 3-pointer

Thus Spoke Keith Hernandez

Twitter: ThomasTSKH

"Everything's gonna be awesome." -Ken Oberkfell

by Thomas Wachtel on Feb 12, 2011 7:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I hope

it was Carolina winning their 4th game in 4 years at Cameron Indoor Stadium.

Yeah, that’s Collins, Coach K and Wojo.

by wobatus on Feb 16, 2011 7:51 PM EST up reply actions  

This makes no sense

All people have done is make grandiose pronouncements about his arm since the moment he got hear. Said above already, but can we just let him pitch without heaping expectations on his shoulders? Telling him he’s a closer in waiting gives him just as much to worry about as any other role we try to verbally shoehorn him in to.

"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage

by blueandorange4life on Feb 11, 2011 7:56 PM EST reply actions  

Thats right Dan Warthen

Yours is a singular opinion, so STFU.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 11, 2011 8:10 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

I find Warthen's comment odd for so many reasons

Rivera could never make it as a starter because he’s a one-trick pony; granted, that trick is an 80 cut fastball that defies time but still, Mejia flashes a plus powercurve and a plus changeup in addition to the plus-plus fastball he possesses. It would be lunacy to breed him to be a reliever now because he’s 21 years old. Rivera didn’t sniff the majors until he was 25 and didn’t close until 27 and that was after gaining 4-5 mph in velocity in his mid-20s. Also, from all the scouting reports I have read, Mejia’s fastball doesn’t cut, it has natural sinking motion so that confuses me as well.

However, I’ll play devil’s advocate and say that I do see the context in which Warthen made those comments, and the fact is that Mejia’s never pitched more than 92.6 innings in a season since being signed. Maybe if the injuries persist, then this comment could have some real validity, yet still it seems strange to make such comments on your 21 year old phenom who projects to be your 1 or 2 in the near future. All that being said, I pray Mejia doesn’t sniff the Met roster until September if that need be the case because getting a 100-120+ inning workload of Buffalo is imperative for his development and future prospects with the Mets.

by Five-Tool Tool on Feb 11, 2011 8:34 PM EST reply actions  

.....
However, I’ll play devil’s advocate and say that I do see the context in which Warthen made those comments, and the fact is that Mejia’s never pitched more than 92.6 innings in a season since being signed.

Maybe he’s never pitched more than 92.6 innings in a season because some clowns posing as a manager and pitching coach decided to jerk him around last season in the big league bullpen when he could’ve thrown close to 150 innings as a starter between AA and AAA. Then they decided “let’s throw him on three days rest for his minor league starts” when they finally sent him down to the minors.

I’ll never get the logic behind these decisions. Is Jerry Manuel really dumb enough to believe that an 8th inning guy was going to save his job? Apparently, that’s true. God do I hate the Mets.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!

by Steve Schreiber on Feb 11, 2011 8:57 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Oh yes.

Sending Mejia down after his spring last year would have been a tough decision, but a worthwhile one, and the previous baseball operations people wanted nothing to do with making tough decisions.

by Five-Tool Tool on Feb 11, 2011 9:08 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't know...I didn't think it was that tough a decision to be honest.

First off, he was 20 and had all of 44.1 mediocre innings above A+ ball. Second, he looked good in the spring but mainly pitched against minor leaguers when he came in. Third, he’s 20 and should be developing as a starter until he proves that he cannot be a legitimate major league starter (something that he’s never proven at this point that he can’t do). Fourth and most importantly in my eyes…he wasn’t on the 40 man roster and wouldn’t have been Rule V eligible until this year. By adding him to the 40 man and keeping him up from April through June, they wasted not only valuable minor league development time but also a good 3 months of ML service time along with burning a very valuable option year. Now if they had to add him to avoid losing him in the Rule V draft, then by all means add him to the roster. And if he proved ready for the majors as a starter, okay. But they didn’t have to do the first thing and didn’t prove the second thing. It’s not a big deal at the moment but it gives the Mets a lot less wiggle room down the road in case he needs some more minor league seasoning. Ruben Tejada’s in the same boat.

Adding him to the team on opening day just wasn’t warranted. Personally, I would’ve been fine with letting him start at AA in April, see if he deserves a promotion to AAA and then if they wanted to, they could’ve added him to the 40 man and called him up in August or September. That way he gets his slate of innings in the minors, works on his pitches, gets a promotion to AAA and finishes his season with a big league callup as a reward for the hard work, all while saving an option year (since they wouldn’t have to demote him at season’s end…his next demotion to the minors would be Opening Day 2011).

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!

by Steve Schreiber on Feb 11, 2011 9:38 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

+1

to everything mistermet just said

by El Duq of Hurl on Feb 12, 2011 11:22 AM EST up reply actions  

Rec'd for extreme Truthiness

"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage

by blueandorange4life on Feb 12, 2011 1:28 PM EST up reply actions  

This...is...

freaking epic.
Holy shit. I love it.

"go watch another episode of dahrma and greg you butt nutt"
-lohaus#54
The fan formely known as 0(+> (pronounced MetFanWithaPlan)

by JoeBighead on Feb 12, 2011 12:00 AM EST up reply actions  

I just busted a gut

rec’d

"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage

by blueandorange4life on Feb 12, 2011 12:11 AM EST up reply actions  

buahahaha! great one mistermet!

"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"

by feslenraster on Feb 12, 2011 8:08 AM EST reply actions  

i think Warthen said it to energize the fan base

he knew the nerds on this site would go batshit for weeks about it, thus raising interest in the club and maybe attendance/merchandise sales. there’s no other explanation.

I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya

by itsmetsforme on Feb 12, 2011 1:53 PM EST reply actions  

I think it's time Sandy tells Warthen to shut up or get fired

Squeezed to Song and Bendtner and Song and Nasri oh lovely lovely lovely!
-Peter Drury, the one time his commentating has ever been acceptable.

by Aidan Gibson on Feb 13, 2011 7:02 AM EST reply actions  

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