Jose Reyes, His Future, And The Mets
This is a big year for Jose Reyes. He's in the last year of his contract, in the middle of his peak age range, and yet has a glaring 166-PA 2009 season pulling down his resume. He's been exciting, upsetting and even forgettable at different points of his young career so far, and yet a good season would put him in the position to put his signature on a nine figure contract. Should the Mets be the team offering him that contract? Perhaps a look at some comparable players would help.
Think of modern-era shortstops that relied more on their legs than power for their value, and one name might immediately come to the fore, especially in New York. Crosstown hero Derek Jeter perhaps? He seems to be a good comp even if he walks more and is a worse defender than Reyes (and has also never had as empty a season as Reyes did in 2009). He's an athletic player that would suffer greatly from a leg injury, it seems.
Run a query on Baseball-Reference asking for shortstops under 28 that stole 30 bases and hit more than 10 home runs and fewer than 20, and you only get 20 player-seasons, of which Reyes owns four. Jeter owns one, so were were on the right track there. Jimmy Rollins owns four as well, so let's consider him a comp even though he owns more power. Finally, though Barry Larkin only appears once on the list, he only hit more than 20 home runs once in his career, didn't walk a ton until he hit 27, and had many injury-ridden seasons to his name. He seems like a great comp. Another player that appears more than once is Rafael Furcal, who might just be the best name on the list.
Now that we've found Barry Larkin, Jimmy Rollins and Rafael Furcal, is it time to eliminate our first name? Jeter did show up twice on the list, so there is a reason for him to appear here, but between his full-season debut and his year-28 season, he walked more than 7.3% every year and stole 30 bases once. Reyes walked 3.7% of the time in his rookie year and 5.1% last year - and stole 78 bases one year. Along with the defensive differences, this seems like it might be a poor comparison. Perhaps it's the benefit of hindsight, but Jeter also hasn't been as injury-riddled. He didn't have a Reyes 2009 on his resume in 2002 either.
Now, let's line up some relevant statistics for our four-man group. These numbers were all accrued before their age-28 season, and the low PA thresholds come from non-debut seasons. Reyes may have the most games, but he also started his career at the youngest age.
Jimmy Rollins seems to emerge as the best comp - except, ironically, he was the healthiest young shortstop of the bunch. Actually, maybe we should think about the recency effect - Rollins has crossed the 600 PA threshold every year but one, it's just that the one low-PA season was last year. He's been healthy! And, it looks like his performance up to age 28 actually suggested that might be the case.
Let's instead focus on the the two frailer shortstops, Barry Larkin and Rafael Furcal. Reyes actually showed more power than the two of them, but walked a little less and at least showed a similar offensive profile if you zoom out far enough. What this comparison seems to suggest, at first, is that Reyes has as much upside as any of his comps - based on his higher ISO and SB totals - but that his floor is lower - based on his 2009 PA total.
To try and show this graphically, here are the WARgraphs for the four players, courtesy FanGraphs:
This one seems to tell us that we are on the right track. Reyes had a nice early bump, but that may prove to be his peak and his career longevity will have a lot to do with how he stacks up at the end.
Now we see clearly that Reyes' best seasons so far have been comparable to Larkin's but that the seasons surrounding those peak three years are clearly inferior. Reyes' walk rate may have something to do with this, as that's oscillated pretty wildly so far in his career, and he hasn't hit that sustained double-digit walk rate that Larkin found at 28 years old.
It does look like Furcal, even with his injury issues, has been more consistent that Reyes so far. On the other hand, give Reyes three more three-WAR seasons, and his line would even out and come in above Furcal's, and possibly even Rollins'. Let's look at this one last way.
It's a little hard to read, but this is the best way to look at it, probably. You can clearly see how Reyes' peak three years were awesome, and that his 2009 valley was worse than most. With his graph being the shortest, you can see that he could easily return to the four-WAR level next year, show another good peak year or two, and end up as slightly worse than Barry Larkin. Or he could follow Rafael Furcal's pattern and show four-WAR seasons when healthy, and half of that when not. He doesn't seem to have much in common with Jimmy Rollins in this chart.
The search for comps often comes to this moment. Is Jose Reyes more like Barry Larkin or Rafael Furcal? If he's Barry Larkin, he'll improve his walk rate as he ages, and find a way to produce near his peak level in healthy seasons. Larkin had seven seasons of near-six-WAR work, Reyes has three so far. This comp should make you feel rosy inside and might make you more likely to offer the contract despite the health issues. Larkin had some health issues and turned out pretty good anyway.
Furcal didn't have the same peak as Reyes, but he's had some comparable valleys. And Furcal never hit that second gear that Larkin found - he didn't improve any core statistic the way that Larkin did when he went from 7-% walk rates to 10+% walk rates annually. If Reyes doesn't find his way back to better walk rates and better defense, Furcal's curve could have been the warning sign.
And there you have it, really. This year is about staying healthy, walking more, and playing strong defense. The stolen base and home run totals would be nice (particularly in fantasy leagues), but a 9% walk rate would really raise eyebrows and make a long-term contract in New York more likely.
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I like Jose Reyes
He is good at baseball and exciting to watch. Hopefully he performs, Sandy signs him midseason and Mark Cuban goes all in on Pujols on the offseason.
Bottom line
is no one has a crystal ball to look into the future.
I see of those who voted so far, the overwhelming majority want Reyes resigned. Count me in that camp.
In other news, looks like Wainwright heading towards TJ surgery. Ouch.
by MetsFan4Decades on Feb 23, 2011 10:43 AM EST reply actions
This franchise has a history of getting this type of decision 100% wrong
I can see it now. We trade Reyes to San Fran for Jonathan Sanchez and two prospects that amount to nothing, and Jose puts up 6 WAR seasons for the next eight years. It almost seems inevitable.
The difference between this year and every other year
We have Depodesta and Ricciardi conducting our scouting and Sandy Alderson in charge of all executive decisions.
I’m optimistic that he won’t pull the trigger on any Kazmir/Seaver-esque deals.
by TheBigStapler on Feb 23, 2011 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
Definitely leaning towards wanting him. Even in his overall-down season last year (offensively and defensively he was below what you’d expect from Jose in a season), he was still worth +2.8 WAR, which ranked 6th among SS in the NL, 9th best in all of baseball. And I think most would agree he certainly has the upside to be worth more than that in the future, potentially returning to his ~6ish WAR form of 2006-2008.
I'm all in favor of locking him up long-term
In his early career, he had various leg injuries and such that limited his playing time and effectiveness. He then came back, and posted, basically, three 6.0 WAR seasons. Now, again, he’s facing various maladies, some of which are the same, or similar problems he’s faced earlier on in his career. If he was able to get over those things once, and be an elite-level player, now, in his baseball prime, I see no reason why he won’t be able to do so again.
Price is more murky.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 23, 2011 11:45 AM EST reply actions
Something, I think
That can be chalked up, to some degree, to pressing, which directly correlates to the injuries he had, and to the general status of the team, at points, last season. Partially.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 23, 2011 2:48 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I see no reason to think that his agent is a real master of the game
Given the contract he accepted last time, and other teams will be just as cautious about his injury history. I think we can get a pretty friendly deal (I do think he should be given an entirely fair deal, of course).
Although I fear for the wayward debate
at the actual negotiations I surmise from the principal arguments that it boils down to who’s going to convince who of what more compellingly. At the moment Sandy has one hell of a base to stand on regarding Jose’s injury history and all the histrionics that come with it. This is the reason he hasn’t been signed yet in addition to playing with fire in what I actually believe their hopes he shows that a return to ‘08 standards in lieu of their obsevatory season.
Now Reyes has the ball in his court in the potentials of nearly all aspects of the said negotiations and I think its based solely on one thing. That conflicting principles are weighing the payroll flexibility that potentially exists if he doesn’t re-up versus the degree of validity in justification to use that payroll flexibility that we haven’t had in quite some time. The caveat to a potential train wreck is simply the very real possibility of a jail break type run on Reyes’s market value which is in the hands of a couple GM/ownership tandems that make my blood boil at the very idea of them being involved to any degree. So essentially its whatever Jose makes of it until he reaches the market if he decides to let it get that far which is what I fear most. From there on my hopes of keeping Reyes take a significant hit which I will not be happy with unless there’s a REALLY justifiable and MAJOR addition via trade or one that legitimately coincides with the need for removal of Reyes’s potential bite into the budget.
by Wright of passage on Feb 23, 2011 12:08 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I think I understand this article perfectly
You’re saying Jose Reyes is going to be better than Barry Larkin.
Scott was asked if this win meant that Rex Ryan could now be looked at as an equal of Bill Belichick's as a coach.
"Why not better? Belichick is one Mo Lewis hit from being fired," Scott said. "[Brady] don't come in we might be talking about him on the unemployment line."
haha
No, not really. I’m saying that the best-case scenario is that he’s almost as good and as heatlhy. I mean, Larkin has three or four seasons better than Reyes’ best so far.
I choose to believe what I choose to believe.
Scott was asked if this win meant that Rex Ryan could now be looked at as an equal of Bill Belichick's as a coach.
"Why not better? Belichick is one Mo Lewis hit from being fired," Scott said. "[Brady] don't come in we might be talking about him on the unemployment line."
I'm a huge fan of watching Reyes play
but if we want him back we need to get him an extension at a team friendly rate. If he’s looking for the kind of money and more importantly years he’s projected to get on the free agent market, I’m more hesitant just because it’s a ton of money for a player who’s going to need his legs. I’m not overly concerned injury wise (Hiram-Birthorn stadium takes the blame for his missed time last year), it’s just a question of whether or not he can keep up his value. His defense slipped a bit last year (possibly due to the oblique injury but it’s hard to tell) and he’s going to depend on his speed to keep his OBP at an acceptable level as he ages since he doesn’t walk at a great rate and K’s a bit too much for a leadoff hitter. He’s still young enough where a contract for the right length would be worth a high annual value, but anything in excess of 4-5 years makes me fairly apprehensive.
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Feb 23, 2011 2:20 PM EST reply actions
One thing I take issue with his his strikingout
Since 2006, only 16 players have a better K% than him, 3 of which are retired and 11 who have lower BB%.
Scott was asked if this win meant that Rex Ryan could now be looked at as an equal of Bill Belichick's as a coach.
"Why not better? Belichick is one Mo Lewis hit from being fired," Scott said. "[Brady] don't come in we might be talking about him on the unemployment line."
And for the record
Reyes’ career 12% K% is lower than Rickey’s 15.5%. Of course Rickey had a ridiculous 16.4 BB%.
Scott was asked if this win meant that Rex Ryan could now be looked at as an equal of Bill Belichick's as a coach.
"Why not better? Belichick is one Mo Lewis hit from being fired," Scott said. "[Brady] don't come in we might be talking about him on the unemployment line."
yeah guess it's not as bad as i thought it was
for some reason i thought he was a bit over 11-12%. Not sure why. Walk rate could still use some improvement though
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Feb 23, 2011 5:33 PM EST up reply actions
the best strategy is wait and see. I like production BEFORE the contract
a novel concept practiced by certain MLB GM’s in the National League. I always liked the Jose’s hair though. I wish they sold a Mets cap with Jose’s dread locks glued on
I'm torn:
I don’t know if I like Jose with dreads, or the classic Jose, with puffy hair better.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 24, 2011 12:31 AM EST up reply actions
Puffy hair.
Dreads are for football. However, should he grow an afro, in Fran Healy voice Hall of Fame.
Can o’ corn.
by Jamesir Bensonmum on Feb 24, 2011 8:40 AM EST up reply actions
There was a guy on my hockey team who had dreads the just touched his shoulders (yes, he was black).
Awesome flow.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Without a doubt,a healthy Reyes is our most important offensive weapon.The Met
offense goes as he goes. His injuries and health issues have killed this offense the last 2 seasons.Mets should try to sign him now when it will be a lot cheaper than after he lights up the league.None of the injuries he has had are career killing and he will be back to form this season.Don’t lose the most exciting player in Met history and put him in pinstripes as a free agent..
sandy will ow ball him ?
he is going to have a monster year and put up good numbers to get his money i would like him to be a part of the future of this team him and wright were homegrown players . but sandy will low ball him giving him like a 5 year 50 million deal that reyes will not take or he will deal him at the trade deadline to a contender for some monster pitching prospects i just got a feeling he is not a alderson type of ballplayer but what do i know i hpoe i am wrong on this one .
lohaus #54
Alderson's type of ballplayer = good.
Reyes = good.
Therefore, Reyes = Alderson’s type of ballplayer
(Yay math!)
Save Jenrry Mejia!
by Ogre39666 on Feb 23, 2011 9:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This.
If anything, he wasn’t an Omar type of ballplayer since Omar really liked ballplayers of the bad variety.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
by Steve Schreiber on Feb 23, 2011 9:38 PM EST up reply actions
I think low balling is handled
at the table and stays there if it happens at all in this instance. But its the gray area between what Alderson see’s fit as being a suitable percentage of the budget to commit to him versus the mega bucks that Reyes and his handler(s) feel he is capable of commanding and are going to privately try to convince him of instead. Don’t get me wrong, I love me my Jose Reyes but my ravenous appetite for a run at a title is kind of tipping the scale against even that strong a sentiment. If it means saving me from having to cut off my arm to be able to wiggle into a better position for that post season run then so be it.
by Wright of passage on Feb 23, 2011 9:10 PM EST up reply actions
i dunno ow-ball sounds like a fantastic game
lets start making up rules
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Feb 23, 2011 9:13 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I believe Jackass already has that covered.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
by Ogre39666 on Feb 23, 2011 9:25 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think you're confusing
their episode of citrus fruit slinging in Jai Alai hand things with the newly concieved concept of “ow-ball”. And I too lobby some rule maker uppers.
by Wright of passage on Feb 23, 2011 9:59 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Okay rule #1:
You may only walk backwards during play and may not turn your head to look behind you.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
by Steve Schreiber on Feb 23, 2011 10:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
"may not turn your head to look behind you"
Does this only apply to when you’re walking backwards during play, or walking forwards during a play which is permissible at all times?
by Wright of passage on Feb 23, 2011 10:37 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
according to rule 1, walking forwards is not permissable
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Feb 23, 2011 10:40 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
rule #2
each player is allotted one pouch containing 50 marbles per period, to use as they see fit.
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Feb 23, 2011 10:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
and when do the "rollover period marbles"
come into play?
by Wright of passage on Feb 23, 2011 10:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
all marble effects are cumulative
their over or under use could be strategic
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Feb 23, 2011 10:52 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
and usage of the bidet?
should these marble accumulations be found to be excessive for the bidet, should a bidet penalty be enforced? IN THE BIDET?
by Wright of passage on Feb 23, 2011 11:01 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
No, I'm thinking of the game they played
where they were sitting with their legs spread apart and tossed various spheres at particular delicate areas of the body. The final match-up was played with a fairly large dog bone.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
by Ogre39666 on Feb 23, 2011 11:02 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This is a faulty poll
as it does not include a “wait and see” option, which is why you have the overwhelming result that you have.
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
"Who has more fun than people?"
- Ralph Kiner
I think that's the purpose of the poll.
The question is which way we’re leaning right now. If there was a wait and see option, 90% of the people would have chosen that.
Scott was asked if this win meant that Rex Ryan could now be looked at as an equal of Bill Belichick's as a coach.
"Why not better? Belichick is one Mo Lewis hit from being fired," Scott said. "[Brady] don't come in we might be talking about him on the unemployment line."
Its all about how much for me
If Reyes signs a reasonable deal (5/60 max) then I would want him back. If he wants Crawford money, then he has to go.
since the difference between Reyes having a so-so season and a great season
will be around $50 million on the free agent market, the Mets shouldn’t re-sign him if he has one of his peak years. FAs are almost always vastly overpaid if they put up an excellent season in their walk year. It doesn’t make sense for the Mets FO to match the most excessive offer Reyes will get. Strange, but we should probably hope Reyes has a decent season roughly in line with his 2010 performance rather than a great year. That makes it much less likely the team will need to match an offer from a GM hoping 2008 is juuust around the corner.

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