On Andy Pettitte's Hall Pass
The morning after Andy Pettitte announced his retirement, I was woken up (as I often am) by the sports update on CBS News Radio. Jared Max led his update with the news, then immediately asked this rhetorical question: Does the Yankees lefty deserve Hall of Fame consideration? He seemed to have already decided "yes," since he recited Pettitte's vital statistics while making special note of his work in the posteason. Max concluded by wondering aloud, "I wonder if Pettitte will pave the way for performance enhancing drug users to get into Cooperstown."
Well, that certainly jarred me out of bed. Did a sportscaster just wonder if Pettitte could "pave the way" for other exposed PED users to get into the Hall of Fame, as if that would make him the Jackie Robinson of HGH? Yes, he did.
I can't imagine anything remotely similar being said about Mark McGwire or Sammy Sosa or Roger Clemens, or any other potential Hall of Fame candidate who used PEDs. But then again, Andy Pettitte has long been an exceptional case, someone who doesn't suffer from the same judgments cast on other players tainted by the Steroid Era.
Max was far from alone in his Hall of Fame speculation. Pettitte's retirement caused many sportswriters to ponder the same question. Some considered him a no-doubter, while others thought he came just short of Cooperstown. Very few of them considered Pettitte's admitted use of HGH an important part of the discussion. This stood in marked contrast to the way many of them discuss other people involved in PED use, even those only tainted by rumor.
On Friday, ESPNNY's Ian O'Connor wrote a lengthy appreciation of Pettitte. He acknowledged that Pettitte's excuse for taking HGH "wasn't any more redeeming than the explanations offered by other performance-enhancing cheats." But he also credited the lefty for confessing "his not-so-venial sin" and testifying against former BFF Roger Clemens at Congressional hearings. "Even at his lowest moment," O'Connor insisted, "Pettitte was hailed for his integrity and credibility."
Compare that with O'Connor's take on other people connected to PEDs--Sandy Alderson, for instance, from whom he demanded an apology for steroids in baseball when he was hired as the Mets' new GM. While he seems to believe Pettitte's character outshines "one reckless choice," he does not think the same of the Yankees' third baseman, to whom he addressed an article entitled "Alex Rodriguez's steroid stain will last forever."
ESPN's Buster Olney wrote something similar two years ago ("A-Rod now tarnished forever"), but that didn't prevent him from discussing Pettitte's Hall of Fame chances on a pure statistical basis, with only a passing reference to HGH. Kevin Kernan of the New York Post, while admitting Pettitte's HGH use is a "huge negative," compared his Hall of Fame case to that of Whitey Ford. This time last year, Kernan ripped Mark McGwire for his appearance with Bob Costas on MLB Network and called him "still one of the biggest cheats in baseball history."
Danny Knobler of CBS Sports caused a stir last year when he wrote a column in which he said he wouldn't vote for certain unnamed Hall of Fame candidates because he believed they had built their credentials through "cheating." His evidence? "It’s just strong suspicion, or word of mouth. It’s nothing I can prove, and nothing I’d feel professionally comfortable writing in a story." But when admitted "cheat" Andy Pettitte retired, he discussed his Hall of Fame chances at CBSSports.com by focusing on his postseason success. Knobler did not once mention PEDs.
In the Hall of Fame discussion, Pettitte's merits as a player are being debated first, with HGH mentioned mostly as a sidenote. That's fine in and of itself, as far as I'm concerned. I tend to agree with Joe Posnanski's take: It seems unfair to give him more consideration for playing for such a high profile team, but it also seems unfair to completely dismiss what he did in the postseason. I fall on the short-of-the-HOF side of the fence, but I don't think it's crazy to debate the matter.
The problem is, the courtesy Pettitte receives--dismissal of his HGH use--is extended to literally no other player. Performance enhancing drugs are a central part of the Cooperstown debate even for players who are simply rumored to have used them (see: Jeff Bagwell). How did Pettitte get a PED hall pass?
Is it due to the fact that he fessed up? That's often cited as a show of his character, although it's not like he revealed this sin because of a guilty conscience. Pettitte was named in the Mitchell Report and forced to make an accounting of himself. Admitting something you've already been caught doing is not really confession. It's basically just one small step better than continuing to lie about it.
Is it because he used them only a few times, and only to recover from injury? That requires us to believe the word of someone who'd been quietly "cheating" for years. And if you want to get technical, everyone who takes PEDs does to recover from injury.
For the most part, I think Pettitte gets a pass in this regard not so much because people believe his excuses for using HGH, but because people simply want to let it slide in his case. He's been portrayed and perceived as a Nice Guy for so long, nothing he does can be seen as coming from a Not-Nice place.
I have no doubt Pettitte is a nice guy. The writers who've covered him have nothing but good things to say about the man, and I've never seen any public actions or heard any whispers that suggest otherwise. In a baseball-mad city like New York, you'd think if Pettitte so much as tipped a barista poorly once, we'd hear about it. As a Nice Guy, we're inclined to believe him when he says he did HGH for selfless, team-oriented reasons, no matter how flimsy that excuse looks under even the most basic scrutiny. If it's not entirely true, I'm sure he sincerely believes it is.
Players with different reputations receive different treatment from the media when it comes to PEDs. You don't have to look hard to find writers who think Barry Bonds destroyed the game of baseball. It has less to do with what Bonds actually did to baseball and more to do with how terribly he treated the fourth estate. It also doesn't help that he is, by all accounts, a miserable human being. Roger Clemens enjoyed a better relationship with the press, but he also had a reputation as a win-at-all-costs type. That was once celebrated as a virtue, even when he did something insane like throw a shattered bat during a World Series game. But when it was revealed he used steroids, that do-whatever-it-takes-to-win mentality took on a much darker cast.
What about Mark McGwire? He was considered a nice guy too, but when his PED use was revealed, he became irredeemable in many HOF voters' eyes. This brings up another important point: Pettitte benefits from being a pitcher. Among baseball's many unshakable creeds, one of the biggest and most sacrosanct is that home runs are holy relics. Anyone who interferes with their purity commits sacrilege.
People are less sure what to think about pitchers who take PEDs, even though you could argue their use benefits that position more than any other. The very act of pitching is harmful to the body. Your arm is not made to do what a starting pitcher does to it every five days. Steroids can help a pitcher recover between starts and provide the kind of "rest" that time can not. So while home run hitters get the most scrutiny and scorn for steroid use, you could say that pitchers who take them are artificially enhanced far more than sluggers. Not every hitter who takes steroids will automatically club taters, but every pitcher who takes them will benefit from healing their tired arms much faster.
Whether Pettitte enters Cooperstown or not does not really concern me, but it will be interesting to see what happens in a few years, when Bonds and Pettitte are on the same ballot. Some voters should bone up on their math right now, because in order to vote for the latter and snub the former, they're going to have to do some highly advanced rhetorical calculus.
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I say yes, playoff record pushes him in
look, he was a clutch playoff starter. Steroids do not make you clutch. I think he gets in, plus the media loves the Yankees. A-Rod will get in too
Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all
by Rickfansince76 on Feb 7, 2011 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
Ahh yes, clutchiness
Andy Pettite regular season winning pct: .635
post-season: .655
Regular season ERA: 3.88
Post-season: 3.83
Regular season WHIP: 1.357
Post-season: 1.304
He was the same pitcher in the post-season as he was in the regular season. And for all the admittedly memorable post-season performances, he also had some stinkers. Everybody remembers his performance in Game 5 of the 1996 World Series, but it’s funny how they forget him getting shelled in game one. Or his nightmare performance in the 1997 ALDS, or getting blitzed in the 2001 World Series in game six when the Yanks had a chance to clinch.
I’m not saying he wasn’t a great pitcher, or perhaps borderline Hall of Famer, but let’s not make him out to be more than he was.
by dcmetsfan on Feb 7, 2011 3:45 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
i'm really beginning to believe when people say "clutch in the playoffs"
they really just mean “doesn’t choke in the playoffs”
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Feb 7, 2011 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
I find it very curious how over a large enough sample size, regardless of situation, every player's numbers are essentially the same.
And by curious, I mean how the fuck doesn’t everyone realize this yet????
Scott was asked if this win meant that Rex Ryan could now be looked at as an equal of Bill Belichick's as a coach.
"Why not better? Belichick is one Mo Lewis hit from being fired," Scott said. "[Brady] don't come in we might be talking about him on the unemployment line."
by Evan_S on Feb 7, 2011 6:33 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
His regular season averages basically mirror his postseason career except Pettitte was slightly less mediocre in the postseason.
19-10, 3.83 ERA in 263 career postseason innings.
17-10, 3.88 ERA in 215 regular season innings (average).
by Five-Tool Tool on Feb 7, 2011 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
One more thing
Andy Pettitte, playoffs: 19-10, 3.83 ERA, 1.304 WHIP, 9.3 H/9, 2.5 BB/9, 5.9 K/9 in 263 IP
John Smoltz, playoffs: 15-4, 2.67 ERA, 1.144 WHIP, 7.4 H/9, 2.9 BB/9, 8.6 K/9 in 209 IP
Randy Johnson, playoffs: 7-9, 3.50 ERA, 1.140 WHIP, 7.9 H/9, 2.4 BB/9, 9.8 K/9 in 121 IP
I’ll take Randy Johnson’s credentials in the postseason over Pettitte’s even with the losing record.
by Five-Tool Tool on Feb 7, 2011 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
Gee, I didn't know it was up to him.
I don’t think Pettitte belongs either, and I have just as many HOF ballots as Fatso—zero.
by madisonmetsfan on Feb 7, 2011 4:07 PM EST up reply actions
That means
he gets in first ballot.
What's the score, boys?
What did Bugs Bunny do?
What's with the Carrot League baseball today?
Slammin' Sammy is a nice guy too
Plus he’s a warning to all the youths out there thinking of (ab)using PEDS.
Once you start juicing, your skin will become allergic to your blood. You don’t need that…
Image credit for Jerrysaurus goes to astromets
No to the HOF
No because of PEDs, but also no because of an ERA+ of 117 (about the same as Don Newcombe’s).
by Steve OnceBrooklynNowMets on Feb 7, 2011 12:50 PM EST reply actions
He better not be the first PED guy to get in
PED’s either matter to the voter or not, and if they don’t then there are going to be far more deserving candidates than Pettite to be elected who will have been passed over several times already. Personally, I think we need to just accept the fact that the majority of players were likely doing something to help themselves during that era and just stop trying to pretend it wasn’t something baseball was ok with. If the voters are taking a stand on guys like McGwire and Bonds though, Petite should be locked out as well.
by Stephen Schmidt on Feb 7, 2011 12:55 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Petitte Is Not a HoFer
based on stats alone. The one area Petitte is impressive in is wins but he has a high ERA (3.88 lifetime) and very mediocre WHIP. Petitte wasn’t even the best pitcher on the staff’s he pitched on.
In my mind, HoFers have to be truly dominant players, the ones you truly fear facing. In Petitte’s era, there were some beastly pitchers including Pedro Martinez, Randy Johnson, Greg Maddux, John Smoltz, Roger Clemens, etc.
Nothing against Petitte, he was a fine pitcher in his day but he doesn’t rise to that level. In my mind he falls into that level just below HoF.
I don't like that he gets a pass
Especially when others with no evidence of PED use (Bagwell, Piazza) are getting tarnished. If Pettitte had the numbers to make the hall, I’d say he belongs, but I think he comes up short. He’s better than Jack Morris (heh), but still not a Hall of Famer in my book. He’s certainly nowhere near the level of contemporaries like Pedro, Maddux, or Randy Johnson.
"It’s just everytime we think the bar can’t get lower, they lower it. Now next year we’ll just be happy to hear that rogue shirtless officials aren’t implementing useless detrimental drills in spring training for no apparent reason."
-Gina, 3/1/10
Some basement blogger
thinks Piazza used steroids even though said blogger hasn’t provided any evidence to support his claim. Here he is outside of his mom’s basement:

What's that about?
by Brian. on Feb 7, 2011 3:40 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Pettitte getting into the Hall would be very useful.
While there’s little evidence that HGH is any more performance-enhancing that magnetic wristbands, they’re still perceived to be a PED and Pettitte in the Hall would help destroy the argument of people that don’t let significantly better players that also likely maybe/probably/certainly used PEDs into the Hall.
I hate Andy Pettitte (the public figure)
He’s one of those guys who is constantly given a free pass just for being Andy Pettitte. A cool guy. A nice guy. Oh, he did PEDs? Well, that’s ok! He’s Andy Pettitte! It was only once and he had a good reason. Let him into the HoF.
I am tired of the constant hard-on the media have for this guy.
by hunterfan on Feb 7, 2011 1:44 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
And don't forget,
he IS a True Yankee™…
Oh, the butcher and the baker and the people on the street: wheredotheygo?!?!? Right here: http://myentireteam.wordpress.com/
But....but....
…I just saw his Yankeeography and there will never ever be another pitcher – strike that, PERSON – to walk on this planet like Andy Pettite. John Sterling said so.
Thank you Matt Moulson!
Amen to this article
Since Pettitte first confessed, after being caught, he has gotten a free pass. Either PEDs matter or they don’t. The nice guy defense is not one.
As for the HOF, Pettitte deserves the honor of being debated as HOFer, then rejected as inadequate. Kevin Brown was a much better pitcher, used PEDs also, but was always viewed as a jerk. He only got one ballot. Methinks Andy’s halo will mean we will have a few more years to debate the merits of his selection.
The Users Caused This Dilemma...
…and as such they do not belong in the Hall. You could make the argument with some, certainly Clemens, Bonds and some others, that even without steroids they would have had good enough numbers to make the Hall. But we’ll never know that, and that is their fault. So penalize them for causing this problem. I loved Rafael Palmeiro in Baltimore, but he would not get my vote.
Good piece about why Pettitte appears to be given a pass Matt, although I do not think he should. I noticed you didn’t speculate that it just may be because he was a Yankee. I don’t know if I would entirely rule that out, especially after reading Ian Connor’s relative quotes about Pettitte and Sandy Alderson.
Overall the baseball writers should consider this very carefully. By allowing users into the Hall, they’re basically saying it was okay, and it was not. The season and lifetime home run records were impressive achievements that stood for a long time, and suddenly they were shattered by PED-users. And we’re not even talking about the influence these guys—especially home run hitters—have on kids.
Everything from parking to peanuts at the ballgame...check out www.BallparkEGuides.com!
If MLB didn't want PED users in the Hall of Fame, their rules would reflect that
Pete Rose did something that MLB deems egregious enough to preclude him from HOF consideration. MLB has not quite done this with PEDs. There are now punishments in place for using — when you use and get caught, the punishment is [x] games (whatever the punishment is). That’s it. That’s time served. If you get caught three times, you are banned from baseball. Only then should a player not be considered for the HOF. MLB views it this way and that’s how the subject should be treated.
There were no rules pre-testing, hence there is no grounds for keeping pre-testing suspected PED users out of the HOF. Especially when there is no hard evidence of usage.
This is a summary of a longer and much more eloquent take on the topic, which you can read here.
by James Kannengieser on Feb 7, 2011 3:44 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
You know I agree with your position re: PEDs
That it has all been overblown. But I have to argue that Pete Rose has gotten a bum rap. IIRC, there is nothing that proves, or even suggests, that Rose bet on games that he was involved in. While gambling on games that you have the ability to influence has traditionally been a reason for a ban, and for good reason IMO, betting in general should not be. Am I wrong? Is there evidence that Rose bet on games that he was involved in? If not, it’s total BS that’s he’s been excluded from the game.
It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.
Separate issues
Whether Rose is unfairly banned from MLB doesn’t really matter, re: the HOF. He’s banned and that’s that.
But as to whether or not Rose bet on games he was involved in — the answer is yes, he did. He admitted as much in his autobiography. Here’s the Wikipedia page.
by James Kannengieser on Feb 9, 2011 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
Ah ok
Must have missed that. I stand corrected
It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.
Naw dude, Pettitte isn't a Hall of Famer.
Am I missing something here? Every time I look over his stats, I just don’t see a pitcher who dominated his contemporaries. He was a very good pitcher on some fantastic teams but that’s it. Even going from the foggy memory banks, he was never a pitcher I’d think of in nearly the same light as the top pitchers of the late 90s through the 00s.
by Jamesir Bensonmum on Feb 7, 2011 3:09 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I say no to HOF he's a good pitcher, very very good
but he is similar to Mussina, Cone…etc. PEDs aside, to me Andy isn’t the prototypical HOF.
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
Mussina was a lot better
It’s funny, but I feel like Mussina should be getting a lot more hall of fame talk, and yet when he retired, I don’t remember a lot of “is he a hall of famer?” talk, at least not relative to Pettitte, and yet Mussina was far, far better a pitcher than Pettitte.
I wonder if this is the flip side of the “True Yankee” bullshit. Mussina never won a ring, so idiots like Murray Chass think he doesn’t belong in the hall. Meanwhile, Pettitte’s 5 championships make him Hall of Fame worthy because he earned his pinstripes.
"It’s just everytime we think the bar can’t get lower, they lower it. Now next year we’ll just be happy to hear that rogue shirtless officials aren’t implementing useless detrimental drills in spring training for no apparent reason."
-Gina, 3/1/10
by Greenpoint Ian on Feb 7, 2011 5:07 PM EST up reply actions
Mike Mussina is the pitching version of Carlos Beltran.
So good yet so under appreciated.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
by Steve Schreiber on Feb 7, 2011 8:54 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Completely Agree
Mussina had some very good years with the Yankees but his best years were in Baltimore. I was at his 1 hitter in the 1997 ALCS which the Os lost when Armando Benitez hung a slider to Tony Fernandez in the 10th inning.
The only thing that would push Pettitte into the Hall of Fame
Would be his playoff performances, which is utter crap because
a) he was the same pitcher
b) he got in the postseason because he was on a good team
He’s not a Hall of Famer, with or without PEDs
Squeezed to Song and Bendtner and Song and Nasri oh lovely lovely lovely!
-Peter Drury, the one time his commentating has ever been acceptable.
I vote no because
he’s not better than guys like Newcombe, Brown or even Cone, and none of those guys deserve it, either. If he didn’t play on the Yankees his whole career, he’d have been just another pitcher.
For some reason, whenever I hear the name Andy Petitte, I don't even think about PEDs
But he just isnt a HOF worthy player, PEDs or no PEDs.
Gas prices today are a lot like a pitcher's ERA. Anything under 3 is amazing, under 4 is pretty good and anything 5 and up is something you want to avoid.
Yeah, pretty much this
A good pitcher, yes. But they don’t call it the Hall of Good.
What's the score, boys?
What did Bugs Bunny do?
What's with the Carrot League baseball today?
gonna be a very lonely place
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Feb 7, 2011 11:12 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Agreed
Hank Aaron needs to be kicked out immediately.
Scott was asked if this win meant that Rex Ryan could now be looked at as an equal of Bill Belichick's as a coach.
"Why not better? Belichick is one Mo Lewis hit from being fired," Scott said. "[Brady] don't come in we might be talking about him on the unemployment line."

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