Make-The-Mets-O-Meter, Week 1: Pitchers
by Eric Simon on Mar 1, 2011 10:00 AM EST
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PrintAs in years past, we'll use the Make-the-Mets-O-Meter this spring in an effort to divine the Mets' Opening Day roster. The Mets have a ton of players in camp this year including 16 non-roster invitees. By definition, NRIs are less likely to make the team than their 40-man-roster counterparts. The selection of any NRI for the Opening Day roster will require a concomitant 40-man roster move, which then requires that someone be exposed to waivers, and so forth. Given two identical players, the one who is already on the roster has a huge advantage.
Here, then, is the first Make-the-Mets-O-Meter of the spring. Pitchers today, hitters tomorrow.
| Player |   |
Comment |
|---|---|---|
| Manny Acosta, RHP |  |
Acostalypse has a pretty good chance of making the team. |
| Manuel Alvarez, RHP | |
Struck out 10.9 and walked just 1.1 batters per nine (9.50 K/BB) in 47 innings with Double-A Binghamton as a 24-year-old last season. |
| Pedro Beato, RHP | |
Has allowed a run in two spring innings so far. The Mets plucked him from the Orioles in December's Rule 5 draft, which means they have to keep him on the active roster all year or offer him back to the O's for $25k. That fact alone gives him a small advantage over the other righties in camp. Being a local Brooklyn kid doesn't hurt, either. |
| Boof Bonser, RHP | |
He's a non-roster invitee which puts him at a disadvantage before we even get started. Then again, this and this. |
| Blaine Boyer, RHP | |
Very unlikely that Boyer will make the Opening Day roster. Effective against righties but not much else. |
| Taylor Buchholz, RHP | |
The Mets signed him to a major league deal this offseason so it's unlikely he doesn't make the team. I've included him here just in case. |
| Tim Byrdak, LHP | |
"The Byrdman" is a serious LOOGY, excelling against LHB and struggling against RHB. That he throws with his left hand can only help his chances. |
| D.J. Carrasco, RHP | |
The Mets gave him a two-year contract this offseason to pitch out of the big league bullpen. He'll be on the team. |
| Dillon Gee, RHP | |
Gee had a nice debut with the Mets in September, but unless a few guys get hurt he'll lose the numbers game this spring. |
| Ryota Igarashi, RHP | |
Struck out two in an inning of work on Monday, but he also gave up a two-run home run to Mike Morse. He cleared waivers earlier this offseason so the Mets would have to put him on the 40-man roster if they want him on the big club for Opening Day. |
| Jason Isringhausen, RHP | |
Tossed a scoreless inning on Monday and got three ground outs in the process. Tried out his changeup and hit a batter with it. He's a good story, though. |
| John Lujan, RHP | |
Struck out 45 and walked just 12 in 37.1 innings with Triple-A Buffalo in 2010. Appears to be a ground ball pitcher, too. He'll turn 27 in May. |
| Jenrry Mejia, RHP | |
Sandy Alderson isn't like to repeat Omar Minaya's mistake with respect to Mejia. The Mets' top pitching prospect will begin the year in the minor leagues. |
| Pat Misch, LHP | |
Being left-handed and grounder-prone makes him a better option than Dillon Gee. Like Gee, however, Misch will need some injuries to get a shot out of the gate. |
| Michael O'Connor, LHP | |
Pitched a scoreless inning on Monday and would require a 40-man adjustment to make the Opening Day roster. Then again, he's a lefty. |
| Oliver Perez, LHP | |
Har, har! I'm delighted that Perez is even on this list, but if he continues to drop three-walk, four-run outings this spring like he did this weekend he could find himself out of a job. |
| Armando Rodriguez, RHP | |
Rodriguez had a great season as a 22-year-old with the Low-A Sand Gnats last season, striking out 152 in 146 innings as a starter. He's not likely to make the big club this spring. |
| Tobi Stoner, RHP | |
Still has a great name, but the Mets dropped him from the 40-man roster this offseason and I can't imagine they're in any rush to put him back on it. |
| Taylor Tankersley, LHP | |
Gave up three runs in an inning on Monday including a two-run shot to Mike Morse. Another mediocre lefty competing for Pedro Feliciano's old spot in the bullpen. |
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Tomorrow??
I want it now. Not 24 hours from now.
Just kidding, I love this site!
by SFloridaMetsFan on Mar 1, 2011 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
Guys like O'Connor and Igarashi you hope will stick around in the minors to get there stuff worked out
Both of these guys might help strengthen the pen when injuries occur, and we know injuries will occur.
by ScottfromPeekskill on Mar 1, 2011 10:07 AM EST reply actions
I think will be anyway...
in 2013.
Now, kids, being eaten by a crocodile is just like going to sleep; in giant blender.
yeah, his high profile blown saves kinda make people forget just how dominant he was
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Mar 1, 2011 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
Of all the observation bias cases out there
his is admittedly the easiest to understand.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
yeah, i even remember hating the guy for a while
before i started looking into it and realizing just what he had accomplished. Anyone can have a bad day, he just chose some really bad times to do it
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Mar 1, 2011 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
No, this is revisionist history, and I'm going to strenuously refute it for as long as I draw breath.
The man had no intestinal fortitude, no control over his emotional state. It’s why he beat his girlfriend, it’s why he couldn’t close an important game. And sure, being able to close a lot of games and get to the important games matters somewhat, but it doesn’t matter much when it comes right down to it, if the post-season games are (almost inevitably) going to be blown. You KNOW the only reason Bobby left Leiter in that game, pitching on fumes, is because nobody – with good reason – trusted Benitez to do his freaking job. God, I hate that guy.
Saying he wasn't as bad as people remember it's not revisionist history.
Saying Benetiz came to us from the Orioles in exchange for a Tod Hundley very much still in his prime is revisionist history. You have no evidence that Benitez had a weak stomach. The dude gave up over 1 HR/9 (so you shouldn’t be surprised when he gave one up), yet still had decent FIP’s and great ERA’s.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
it burns
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Mar 1, 2011 9:35 PM EST up reply actions
who among these guys is out of options...
…or otherwise not able to be sent to Buffalo in the event they don’t make the club? I believe Acosta and Misch fall into that category. We already know that Ollie won’t go to the minors. O’Connor maybe? This FO seems to be very big on building depth in the system, so guys who are out of options might also have a bit of an advantage because they can’t easily be sent down.
Acosta and Misch are out of options.
Mike O’Connor is an NRI on a minor league contract so he doesn’t need options to be sent down since he signed a minor league deal. Same with Tankersley, Byrdak, Izzy, Boyer and Bonser. The only thing is that some of these guys could have “out” clauses in their contract where they can request their release if they don’t make the big league team. I’d assume that maybe Byrdak has it since he’s a veteran pitcher with some history of success and could probably find a gig elsewhere. On the hitting side, I’d imagine that Willie Harris probably would have an out clause as well, since he is also a vet with some big league success.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
by Steve Schreiber on Mar 1, 2011 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
Ahem
Being a local Brooklyn kid doesn’t hurt, either.
He is from Ridgewood, Queens, thank you very much.
He did
But he grew up in Ridgewood according to all the sites I’ve seen. I went to high school in Manhattan but would consider myself a native of Queens. The again, Ridgewood is right on the border – heck, my subway stop was in Brooklyn.
And I’m just joshing you a little, anyway.
I'm from NJ.
So your meaningless inter-borough squabbles mean nothing to me!
Though I was born in a hospital in Ridgewood, New Jersey, so that’s something.
he also grew up a Mets fan
Add in his elite potential, and Beato should be a no-brainer to make the roster.
"The Mets are gonna be amazin'!" - Casey Stengel
"Bounding and astounding!" - Clyde Frazier
I was only half listening, but was he the guy Burkhardt was talking to during the game
Who was talking about how early he had to get up to travel to his high school? So you’re likely both right.
The death of Ollie
Wasn’t he supposed to have already buit up armstrength in Mexico!! Or do you guys think he going though a dead arm phase and eventually will get back to 90?
by The real Julio from Paterson on Mar 1, 2011 10:50 AM EST reply actions
He is toast
I really dont know what to make of him. No reports of ANY sort of arm/shoulder/whatever(phantom knees aside) and he goes from 9-1-94 to 82-84 in 2 years? Hes relatively young as well, Im confused.
by SFloridaMetsFan on Mar 1, 2011 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
being a lazy sack of crap has that effect on pitching velocity
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Mar 1, 2011 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe he got old fast
Ive never seen that many greys out of nowhere on a guy in his twentys. Ollie get some just for men!!!
by The real Julio from Paterson on Mar 1, 2011 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
By no means am I saying anything nice about him.
Im just woundering how he lost close to 10 mph for no apparent reason other than being a lazy sack of crap.
by SFloridaMetsFan on Mar 1, 2011 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
Its the Mechanics for sure...
He was going to be wild and effective but some genius somewhere decided to try to make him Tom Glavine and now u have a hot mess.
by The real Julio from Paterson on Mar 1, 2011 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
I don't know about that.
I mean maybe the mechanical changes had some to do with his stinking up the joint but I think the guy is mainly just a little crazy and really lazy.
I mean how do you go from that 5.1 WAR 2004 season where he K’d 11 batters per 9 and put up a 2.98 ERA to the absolute shit he put up in 2005 (a -.8 WAR in 20 starts)? This is a guy with a history…he put up that ridiculous 2004 only to follow it up with a wretched 2005 and 06, the Mets saved his ass while he still had good stuff and he got himself back to respectability in 2007 and 08 only to see it come crashing down literally on day 1 of 2009 right after signing that huge contract. It’s just too coincidental to me. Now, even if he wants to resurrect himself a third time, he can’t because he wasted his stuff away. A change in mechanics could’ve dropped him a couple of MPH but this is a guy who’s seen his mid 90’s fastball turned into a Jamie Moyer-esque fastball. I’d like to think that changing his mechanics isn’t going to hurt his FB that much.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
by Steve Schreiber on Mar 1, 2011 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
Mechanics
I think they ruined him with all the adjustments and modifications….
by The real Julio from Paterson on Mar 1, 2011 11:00 AM EST reply actions
Can we just punt on the entire group?
by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Mar 1, 2011 11:09 AM EST reply actions
don't see why, we've got some good guys in there
the point of spring training is to sift out the crap
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Mar 1, 2011 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
Hah!
Heard the exact same thing 1 year ago…
by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Mar 1, 2011 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
that we have some good players and we need to sift out the crap?
thats because it was true last year, and it’s true again this year. We have some good players, some of the players at spring training suck, the point of spring training is to get rid of said players. It’s the same every year. The only difference now is our coaching staff isn’t quite as borderline retarded as last year, so we might actually make the right choices. Im not saying we’re world series bound, but it’s hardly fair to say theres not a worthwhile arm in the bunch just because you feel like taking a piss in the punchbowl.
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Mar 1, 2011 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
not saying there
isn’t a worthwhile arm in the group… what I’m saying is that as a group I expect the pen to be a major source of trouble in 2011… and if you asked me to rank 2011 ML pens, I’d project the Mets to have a bottom 5 one.
by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Mar 1, 2011 2:42 PM EST up reply actions
not sure I agree with you there
bullpens are fairly volatile, so it’s hard to gauge, but we’ve got enough solid arms to have at least a middle of the pack bullpen in my opinion.
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Mar 1, 2011 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
not feeling it
I recall very similar sentiment going around a yr ago… but hey, I guess not having the ability to spend any money has handcuffed the team the past few yrs…
by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Mar 1, 2011 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
we ranked 23 in ERA last year (yeah i know ERA is crap, but its the easiest ranking to find)
not impressive, i’ll grant you that, but not bottom five. Do you really think our bullpen has gotten worse this offseason? I think we have more viable arms than we did last year, which should push us up a little to the middle of the pile somewhere. We’re not gonna be great, but i doubt we’re worse than last year.
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Mar 1, 2011 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
actually i lied, fangraphs does the work for me
21st in WAR, but only 11th in FIP (i’d take that any day), 16 in xFIP (Agrees fairly well with FIP), 13th in K/9, 6th worst in BB/9 (thats what hurt us), 6th in HR/9. Aside from the walk rate, which was pretty bad, we were an average to slightly above average bullpen. I expect we’ll be average to slightly above average again this year as well.
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Mar 1, 2011 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
this is misleading.
as a team the Mets pen had 2.1 war… that was comprised of FreakRod’s 1.4, Taka’s 1.3 in 57 relief IP, PedroF’s .8, Parnell’s .7 and just about everyone else in negative territory or close to it (Acosta .3)… so that’s a lot of bad relief pitching to go from those few which were 4.5 to get to 2.1…
look, there’s a lot of spit being thrown at the wall here… but let’s not kid anybody that this is going to be a top half group… any real success from this group will constitute a major surprise.
by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Mar 1, 2011 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
i never said this would be a top half group
i said we were not impressive last year but our acquisitions this offseason would push us to the middle of the pack. If you think calling somebody middle of the pack is some great compliment, you’re more optimistic than I. I just think we’ll probably move up to an average bullpen this year, if for no other reason than our coach might actually understand how to use a bullpen.
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Mar 1, 2011 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
But that 2.1 was still good for 21st overall (meaning not bottom-5).
And Takahashi’s 1.3 bWAR was accumulated through relieving and starting.
I’ll take Carrasco, Buchholz, Beato, and whatever LOOGY emerges from Misch, Byrdak, Tankersly, and O’Connor over Tak, Felicano, Iggy, Dessens, and Nieve.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
no, according to f/g
Tak had 1.3 war in 57 relief IP and .3 war in 64 SP innings for a total of 1.6
by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Mar 1, 2011 5:40 PM EST up reply actions
Where is that?
I see the (as far as I know, new) Starting and Relieving Runs Above Replacement based on FIP, but no division of WAR.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
I think Krod Parnell Bucholtz and Carrasco are real solid.
And all bullpens have question marks anyway.
by The real Julio from Paterson on Mar 1, 2011 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
This
There is a core of good arms (Kord, Parnell, Carrasco, Buchholz), a bunch of high-upside/low-risk guys (Beato, Izzy, Alvarez, Byrdak), and at least one reliably average but cheap arm (Acosta). Considering the money spent, that’s a job well done.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
you don't really know
that Buchholz can get anybody out post-injury yet.
and till he proves it further, Parnell had a nice 35 inning run in a bunch of relatively meaningless games last year. This year there are quite a bit more expectations of him. I’d love to see him step his game up and show that he’s worthy of the status that he’s already been handed.
As far as everyone else (other than FreakRod), until they prove anything they are all just “live arms…”
by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Mar 1, 2011 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
Everyone keeps saying that Acosta is terrible when it's just not true.
The guy puts up near replacement;level value for 100K more than league minimum. That’s good value.
He does have a higher BB% than what you would like, but his K% is up there too. And there’s always the hope that he can learn to keep the walks down.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
no, he's pretty terrible.
a few uncharacteristically decent innings doesn’t make one a good pitcher.
Frankly, I’m sick of the standard constantly being dropped here… now it’s, well he’s good value b/c he might be near replacement level and we’re not paying him much, etc…. geez, it’s bad enough that our owners have run this thing into the ground the past several years but this isn’t Pittsburgh…!
by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Mar 1, 2011 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
The Acostalypse as a whole was mediocre
but against lefties he was actually quite good, 8 K/9, 2 BB/9, even against righties he had over 10 k/9, but he walked righties like it was going out of style at a rate of 5BB/9. He wasn’t an all star for sure, but if they had used him primarily as a LOOGY (a role I think he could take on this year in the void left by Pedro) he’d be pretty valuable.
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Mar 1, 2011 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
use him as a LOOGY!?
now he’s a LOOGY cause he threw 13 inning last year against LHed hitters and he wasn’t terrible?!?
by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Mar 1, 2011 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
Not for nothing but Pedro Feliciano threw 33 innings against lefties last season.
That seems to be a small sample size as well.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
by Steve Schreiber on Mar 1, 2011 5:42 PM EST up reply actions
kidding, right?
and I suppose his excellent 150+ IP against LHed hitters prior to last year meant nothing?
by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Mar 1, 2011 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
better than he was against righties
and we need a LOOGY, why not see how he does
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Mar 1, 2011 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
It's the friggin bullpen.
What more do you want? A $4M middle reliever who may not repeat his career year? No thank you. I’ll take the perfectly acceptable replacement level pitcher who makes next to nothing.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
or you could just
throw a lot of smack against the wall and hope for the best… oh wait, that’s what they’re doing.
by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Mar 1, 2011 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
This.
The best bullpens are made up of cheap, interchangeable parts. Everybody was gushing over the San Diego Padres bullpen at midseason a year ago but how many people though they were that good last spring training? Aside from Heath Bell, most fans would say “who the hell is Luke Gregerson and Mike Adams? They’re nobodies!” I’m not going to say that the Mets have anybody as dominant as Gregerson or Adams but it’s much better this way than to be tied down to expensive garbage like Schoeneweis and Mota all season.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
by Steve Schreiber on Mar 1, 2011 5:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
cheap is one thing
cheap and talented is quite another.
by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Mar 1, 2011 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
we heard the same exact things a year ago...
Sean Green is really good “if used correctly…”
“Igarashi was a shrewd pickup…”
“Fernando Nieve has a live arm…”
and other assorted sugar-coatings…
by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Mar 1, 2011 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
Who's sugar coasting Acosta?
He’s replacement level and makes just over league minimum. What gets glossed over there?
Save Jenrry Mejia!
First of all nobody here liked Sean Green.
Second Igarashi was a shrewd pickup…like you said, cheap and talented. But Minaya is not a miracle worker. He can’t see into the future. It didn’t work out. And third, Nieve does have a live arm (throwing mid 90’s is by definition a live arm). Doesn’t mean he’s any good.
In the end, what the team gives us is what we as fans have to live with. It’s called optimism. All of those statements are optimistic traits about these guys that we’re trying to point out (although I never heard anybody say anything good about Green last season…maybe in 2009 when he looked to be a decent pickup in the Putz trade but after that awful season he put up?)
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
by Steve Schreiber on Mar 1, 2011 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
Nieve had a live arm
and then we killed it
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Mar 1, 2011 5:54 PM EST up reply actions
And cheap and non-sucky is another.
I’’d rather have cheap and non-sucky than expensive and bad.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
why would I be advocating
for expensive and bad?
by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Mar 1, 2011 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
So a guy like Beato isn't talented?
A guy like Parnell isn’t talented? Even Acosta isn’t talented? They are cheap and talented…mid to upper 90’s fastball is talent. Doesn’t always translate to good results but remember, the front office doesn’t have the skills to predict the future.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
by Steve Schreiber on Mar 1, 2011 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
what's wrong goes deeper than
what Sandy and PDP apparently could have fixed given the limitations that have been revealed over the past few weeks.
The problem is that there is a core in place that if healthy could carry this team to contention but the pitching staff is all QMs… just having some young talented arms and a bunch of injury projects is ultimately going to have this team fall flat only if everything goes right and we get a bunch of RA Dickey stories this year…
there are just too many Beatos on this team… players that have never had a moment of ML success or are a few years from it…. hard to win that way.
by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Mar 1, 2011 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
There aren't very many bullpens that aren't filled with at least a few question marks.
Tell me, would you be saying the same thing about Edward Mujica form San Diego prior to last year? He of 3.62 ERA, 3.88 FIP, 2.82 xFIP last season but only 0.7 career WAR?
Save Jenrry Mejia!
the Met pen
will be all QMs though… aside from maybe one.
by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Mar 1, 2011 5:57 PM EST up reply actions
You may be right but in the end
this is on Omar Minaya for spending on expensive garbage and clogging up the payroll. The payroll is going to be right around 140 million when all is said and done and that’s the Wilpons budget. It’s a shame but that’s partially why Omar was rightfully fired in the first place. Just imagine if we didn’t have to pay Ollie, Castillo and Gary Matthews Jr’s contracts this season…that’d be 20 million extra in the budget and perhaps they could pick up some more “reliable” players.
The thing is, though that most bullpens are put together this way. The Padres put together dominant bullpens year after year using waiver wire pickups, minor league signings, failed starters, etc. Heath Bell was the Mets “garbage”, Mike Adams bounced around on waivers for years before finding himself as a 30 year old in SD, Gregerson was 28th rounder out of college and was dealt for a fading Khalil Greene, going back a few years Scott Linebrink was a waiver wire pickup from the Astros, etc etc. And a lot of pens are built like this…Mariano Rivera was a failed starter, Papelbon was a starter who was squeezed out of the rotation. The point is that bullpens tend to be better when you use young talented guys on the cheap. Most of the good teams do it that way.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
by Steve Schreiber on Mar 1, 2011 6:01 PM EST up reply actions
of course you must realize
how much the RedSox pen is going to cost this season…?
whenever someone tries to make a point, the counterpoint is not to demonstrate that the polar opposite isn’t beneficial. Nowhere ever did I say that the Mets should have spent $40M on their bullpen this season. Look, it’s all academic anyway since the team has now obviously spent money it doesn’t even have so I guess they were never going to add a RP on a $5M or $6M obligation…
and btw, I was deadset against the sigings of both Ollie and Luis for any amount of money… I couldn’t stand both players so the money pissed away to both has always been appalling to me. That said, the Pons are totally complicit in this mess and more so than OM… they gave him free reign a year or 2 longer than he should have had.
by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Mar 1, 2011 6:10 PM EST up reply actions
there's a difference between
getting lucky and being able to recognize, cull, and development talent. You can say that the Pads just got lucky b/c they aren’t able to see into the future, but that gives no credit to their program, coaching, or development.
I’d love to see a few arms emerge from the group that we have, but that’s not an excuse for not going out and adding players who have track records… and again that doesn;t mean I advocate Frankie Rodriguez type contracts… but I think there is value in a lot of mid level players these days.
All that said, I strongly believe that in order to be successful, an organization MUST at least be able to develop bullpen arms regularly and this team has a woeful track record of doing that.
by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Mar 1, 2011 6:19 PM EST up reply actions
"I think there is value in a lot of mid level players these days."
Yet you refuse to admit that Acosta has any value despite being paid only $600K…
Looking into the future, Alvarez, A. Rodriguez, De la Torre, and Carson could all be bullpen pieces next year.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
uh yeah,
b/c I think Acosta is garbage. I just don’t think he’s a good pitcher or ever will be, so to me it’s a waste of $600K… just b/c he had 30 IP last season that were replacement level doesn’t make him valuable.
by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Mar 1, 2011 9:26 PM EST up reply actions
30 IP of replacement level performance last year
plus 37.1 IP the year before that and 23.2 IP 2 years before that. Over 153.2 career IP he has a -0.01 WAR. The dude is decidedly replacement level. Going by the 1 WAR = ~$4M model, then Acosta’s 0.3 fWAR was worth $1.33M last year. He made $400K – 600K (no site seems to have the exact number).
(and he had a .163 BAA and 0.75 WHIP v. LHP last year suggesting the possibility he might be turning into a decent LOOGY.)
Save Jenrry Mejia!
fair enough.
His numbers prior to 2010 seemed to indicate that he was really awful though, and I was really unimpressed after seeing him pitch several times last year. I’m hoping he’s an arm of last resort this year.
by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Mar 2, 2011 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
Is De La Torre even in camp?
I think he could be better than several guys on this list. He’s at least got very good AAA numbers. Hi K rate, and he rarely gives up homers.
Yeah, I'm surprised we haven't heard anything about him.
I wouldn’t expect him to beat anyone who is out of options or has a major league deal, but at least to get the big-league camp experience.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Here's my final bullpen prediction du jour
- K-Rod
- Parnell
- Bucholz
- Carasco
- Izzy
- Beato
- O’Connor
"The Mets are gonna be amazin'!" - Casey Stengel
"Bounding and astounding!" - Clyde Frazier
He's reading his pink slip
"The Mets are gonna be amazin'!" - Casey Stengel
"Bounding and astounding!" - Clyde Frazier
O'Connor!
"The Mets are gonna be amazin'!" - Casey Stengel
"Bounding and astounding!" - Clyde Frazier
I'd like to see it happen!
there’s gonna have to be a couple of arms step up and grab the brass ring, so to speak.
by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Mar 1, 2011 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
I think that he'll be a serviceable LOOGY
"The Mets are gonna be amazin'!" - Casey Stengel
"Bounding and astounding!" - Clyde Frazier
If it was up to me, Misch would be in the bull pen
in place of Bucholz and/or Carasco. I’ve just got a feeling that as long as the Wilpons own this team, they’ll be reluctant to eat contracts – even if they are small.
"The Mets are gonna be amazin'!" - Casey Stengel
"Bounding and astounding!" - Clyde Frazier
Hey, at least he bats righty
"The Mets are gonna be amazin'!" - Casey Stengel
"Bounding and astounding!" - Clyde Frazier
well the Dickey isn't going anywhere
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Mar 1, 2011 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
His name isn't goofy.
It’s Dickey like. That’s right he is his own entity. Like God or Jesus.
by SFloridaMetsFan on Mar 1, 2011 2:44 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Does LOLiver count till his release?
by SFloridaMetsFan on Mar 1, 2011 2:45 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
nope he's not goofy, he's tragic
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Mar 1, 2011 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
Tragically nauseating
"The Mets are gonna be amazin'!" - Casey Stengel
"Bounding and astounding!" - Clyde Frazier
test
testing, please ignore.
_________________________________________________________
"If you do this you will be suspended from the league. You will find that the friends you think you have in the press box will not support you, that you will be outcasts. I do not care if half the league strikes. Those who do it will encounter quick retribution. All will be suspended and I don't care if it wrecks the National League for five years. This is the United States of America and one citizen has as much right to play as another. The National League will go down the line with Robinson whatever the consequences." -- NL Commissioner Ford Frick, in 1947, deterring Cardinals players from boycotting the Dodgers and Jackie Robinson
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