News To Me: A Ground Rule Double Used To Be A Home Run

by James Kannengieser on Mar 12, 2011 1:00 AM EST

Apologies in advance if this is common knowledge. Until 1930, a ball that went over the wall after bouncing in fair territory was ruled a home run. I read this in one of those books of random trivia and confirmed on Wikipedia and various other Internet sites. Such a play isn't technically a "ground rule double" -- those are a result of the ball leaving the field of play due to a circumstance of the ground rules -- but a ball bouncing over the wall has come to be referred as such. Call it a "league rule double", or something similar.

The current application of the rule makes sense, considering changes to ballpark dimensions and the ball itself since the early 1900s. But the concept has always seemed peculiar. The ball goes over the wall and the hitter has to... stop at second base? Run until you're tagged out, right? Shouldn't a home run be awarded? I'm not endorsing a rule change, but merely thinking out loud and trying to make sense of it.

While growing up, the rule was always in effect in little league and high school ball. Yet there was never a special ground rule in place on fields which lacked an outfield wall, leading to more than a few instances of the coveted "groundball home run". It was always a blast playing on fields which the opposing team's grounds crew turned into a putting green. Outfielder positioning and overall offensive strategy changed based on whether a field had an outfield wall, and how far away that wall was from home plate. Few games were ever out of reach.

If the pre-1930 rule was suddenly re-implemented in MLB today, what kind of effect on the game would it have? Maybe teams would plan to move the walls back in stadiums or construct their own versions of the Green Monster. Speedy players would likely rise in demand, both for offensive and defensive reasons. The larger dimensions would allow players to run for days. One-skill slugging outfielders would probably decline in value, with plus defenders desired at all three outfield positions. Would players practice hitting one-hoppers over the wall?

Anyway, I found the news of this rule change intriguing and worth pondering for a few minutes. Enjoy this diagram of the Polo Grounds' dimensions, courtesy of BallparkTour.com.

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how common are league rule doubles?

It seems like thus must be somewhat declining, with the rise of more and more “retro” styled parks, which inevitably have a section with pointlessly higher walls. There’s also barely any astro turf left, which probably also helps.

by Freneau on Mar 12, 2011 1:04 AM EST reply actions

True

Hitting one at Citi Field has to be a near impossibility given the dimensions and walls. I’ve tried finding stats on it but apparently all doubles are treated the same, no matter if they’re regular or league rule.

by James Kannengieser on Mar 12, 2011 7:32 AM EST up reply actions

The MLB office has to know that info

I would think. If it doesn’t, it should.

Very interesting article. I love the dimensions of the polo grounds. Wow.

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by The Glider on Mar 13, 2011 3:24 AM EST up reply actions

I can safely say I never knew what the Polo Grounds Dimensions were like

That outfield is wild though, did anyone ever hit a homer in the deepest part?

"I only wanted a few things out of life -- a wife, children, to play baseball and to hunt deer." - Turk Wendell

by Rey-O on Mar 12, 2011 2:37 AM EST reply actions

According to several sources, no

“Only Luke Easter (in a Negro League game), Joe Adcock, Hank Aaron and
Lou Brock hit home runs into the center-field bleachers. The dimensions were
enough to give a pitcher headaches.”

Source: http://www.ballparktour.com/Where_Giants_Roamed.html

Hu's at first(?)

by sj10689 on Mar 12, 2011 6:17 AM EST up reply actions

I know Aaron and Brock hit theirs off
The Mets and I’m pretty sure Adcick did too.

by Sylow59 on Mar 12, 2011 7:45 AM EST via mobile up reply actions

To drop dead center: no.

by Sylow59 on Mar 12, 2011 7:46 AM EST via mobile up reply actions

Ditto

Wikipedia (yeah, I know) makes it sound even crazier than it looks:

This version of the ballpark had its share of quirks. The “unofficial” distances (never marked on the wall) down the left and right field lines were 279 and 258 feet respectively, but there was a 21 foot overhang in left field, which often intercepted fly balls which would otherwise have been catchable and turned them into home runs. Contrasting with the short distances down the lines were the 450-some foot distances in the gaps, with straightaway center field 483 feet distant from home plate; the corners of the bleachers on either side of the clubhouse runway were about 425 feet. The catch that Willie Mays made in the 1954 World Series against Vic Wertz of the Cleveland Indians would have been a home run in many other ballparks of the time. The bullpens were actually in play, in the left and right center field gaps. The outfield sloped downward from the infield, and people in the dugouts often could only see the top half of the outfielders.

Those last two sentences are ridiculous.

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by Doghnut on Mar 13, 2011 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions

Who the hell designed that place?

Less than 300 down the lines, but over 450 to center, the field actually sloped, and the bullpens were in play? Sounds like a complete failure of design.

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by BobbyV_Incognito on Mar 13, 2011 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions

And it was actually a redesign

It wasn’t so bad to begin with, then they redesigned it.

"If I have asthma, they won't let me scuba. And if I can’t scuba, then what’s this all been about?? What am I working toward??"

"You look like you should be married to one of the San Diego Padres."

by Doghnut on Mar 13, 2011 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions

I actually knew this before and...

… my understanding is that Babe Ruth had none of them. This came up during Bonds’ race to pass Ruth where people were looking for other homers, or ruling some out.

However, Ruth lost as many as 75 (!) homers due to another rule — infinitely extended foul lines. The idea: if a ball hooked the foul pole and landed in what would have been in foul territory, even though it went 650 feet, it’d be a foul ball and not a homer.

Also, walk off homers weren’t always homers.

I’ll be writing about this in my “”http://dlewis.net/nik" >learn something new" email newsletter at some point, now :) Just have to verify some stuff

by Dan Lewis on Mar 12, 2011 8:24 AM EST reply actions

cool

by HotChipWillBreakYourLegs on Mar 12, 2011 8:28 AM EST up reply actions

From what I understand

There’s one for sure, verfied instance where Ruth hit a walkoff HR that didn’t count; particularly, he hit it in a tie game with a runner on first, and the rule at the time was that the game officially ended when the lead runner crossed home, so the Babe was only credited with a triple.

I had a link here to my blog, but it's now defunct and I guess I've lost the URL. Currently taking suggestions for a new signature.

by Lefti on Mar 12, 2011 8:38 AM EST up reply actions

Yeah, I can only find one also.

Do you have the box score/date for that one?

I’ll let you guys know when I run this edition of my email newsletter. I don’t often write baseball because I have a ton of “natural” knowledge about it, so stuff which most people would find arcane is pretty pedestrian to me.

I’ve written three to date:

by Dan Lewis on Mar 12, 2011 8:56 AM EST up reply actions

LOL at

“confirmed on wikipedia”.

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by Dandy Salderson on Mar 12, 2011 9:34 AM EST via mobile up reply actions

* snark fail

A reply to c. geyser, not ddl

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by Dandy Salderson on Mar 12, 2011 9:35 AM EST via mobile up reply actions

I'm on my phone and can't search

A few months, someone made a fanpost polling who we thought the “true” home run king was. We got into discussing a lot of the old rules and park factors and things like that that worked against Ruth. Anyone who can do an archive search, a link for posterity would be cool.

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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Mar 12, 2011 11:48 AM EST via mobile reply actions

silhouette of Polo Grounds' dimensions looks like an Acorn Nut

by nelsonc on Mar 12, 2011 4:15 PM EST reply actions

The Polo Gorunds dimensions may have been illustrated best in

1954 WS Game 1:

1) Willie Mays made The Catch. It would have been a home run anywhere else.

2) Dusty Rhodes won the game with a home run to right in the 10th inning. The ball would have been an easy fly ball anywhere else, but cleared the fence by a few feet down the right field line. The Indians haven’t won a WS since.

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by StorkFan on Mar 13, 2011 9:25 AM EDT reply actions