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Around SBN: VIDEO: Veterans Share Favorite Sports Memories

Outsiders Attacking The Family

(Bumped from FanPosts. --Eric)

---

"It's as though we were made for each other. Beauty and the beast. Of course, if anyone else calls you a beast, I'll rip their lungs out." - The Joker

"I stands what I can stand, and I can't stands no more." - Popeye

I'm not sure at what point I looked at the 2011 edition of the Mets and thought to myself, "Self, this could be a halfway decent team." There was a part of me that almost felt ashamed at such moderately optimistic sentiments. After all, this is an organization that has caused me no small amount of heartburn over the years, and especially the last two. Had I lost my senses? The Mets not sucking? I would have to withdraw from the AA community for such senselessness. 

And then, in dribs and drabs, I noticed people making similarly semi-optimistic predictions for the forthcoming year.  I wasn't alone! I could come out of the closet and proclaim my convictions that the Mets were not completely awful  What joy!

But then there's that entity know as the mainstream sports media.

Star-divide

Two years ago Sports Illustrated boldly predicted the Mets would win the World Series. Now they're picking them dead last in the division, behind a team that boasts Livan Hernandez as their "ace." And they're certainly not the only ones. Most "insiders" are picking the Mets to finish at or near the rear, struggling to win anywhere close to 81 games. Jayson Stark, in a column so bizarre and poorly written that I can only explain it away by assuming that Stark ingested heavy doses of cough medicine before writing it, dismisses the Mets and places them among the dregs of baseball. If you flip on talk radio here in DC you'll here other "insiders" writing off the Mets, taking it for granted they are certainly a franchise doomed for years of suckitude. 

The consensus isn't unanimous. Peter Gammons recognized early on that the Mets could have a deep lineup that will keep the team floating above .500, but he's pretty much out there on an island.

So who cares? The Mets aren't going to lose or win even one more game because most people are expecting them to finish last or near last. And really, who are we to complain about the MSSM's pessimism when we've all engaged in our fair share of it?

There are two reasons why I find this consensus talking point so frustrating, one specific to the Mets and one more general. First of all, I think that like the dysfunctional family, we have no problem ragging on each other, but we dislike it when outsiders dare to critique us. We're a family of a sort, and no outsider is going to bash us, even if some of their criticisms are warranted.

But more than that, the main reason this groupthink is so annoying is that it is indicative of the lazy, unoriginal and thoughtless "analysis" that has become such a hallmark of the mainstream sports media. At the same time we hear how awful the Mets are gonna be, we're fed a steady diet of Phillie worship. "Oh, they've got the big four.  They are unstoppable!" Yes, pay no attention to the fact that their lineup is a porous mess containing a legion of past their prime former stars, and that their best every day player might miss a significant amount of time due to injury. Keep talking about the big four and ignore an entire element of their team.

But these memes are repeated because journalists are too lazy to do the sort of digging that little stat nerds like us do. All you have to do is just perform some basic research on the rosters of each team in order to get a sense of how good they'll be. I'm not asking these writers to spend each hour of the off-season digging into every nook and cranny of every organization, but when chump bloggers who don't even do this for a living have more familiarity with each team, then what does it say about the professional pundit class? If you hear the name Lucas Duda and all you can say is "Ha ha, what a funny name," then you aren't doing your job. Yes, he does have a funny name. He also happens to be a fairly decent prospect who could be a useful role player on the Mets. But most of the guys ragging on the Mets have no idea who he is, and so they'll just write him off as another useless piece for a bad team.

There's also the laziness of just assuming that because of the financial concerns involving the ownership group that automatically means that the team on the field will be bad. Yes, the Wilpons have messed up royally and are probably on the brink of being forced to sell the team. But why does that signify that the Mets won't be any good this year? 

Now I don't want to come off as saying that any pessimism surrounding the performance of this team is wholly unmerited. It's not unreasonable to forecast this team as a sub .500 team, especially if there are injuries to any of their established stars. But so much of the negativity towards this team isn't based on a rational evaluation of the merits of the roster and the players that are assembled. People are just picking up on a meme and aren't interested in doing their own research or going beyond the groupthink.

This FanPost was contributed by a member of the community and was not subject to any vetting or approval process. It does not necessarily reflect the opinions, reasoning skills, or attention to grammar and usage rules held by the editors of this site.

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football analogy

everybody and thier mother predicted the cowboys to win the superbowl last year… look how that turned out. the main steam sports media know less then we do. they just have a microphone pinned to thier shirts.

by Plaxico Burress on Mar 31, 2011 4:52 PM EDT reply actions  

Good analogy

Of course sometimes the consensus happens to be right. I do think the Red Sox will be very, very good this year. But so often the consensus just forms out of some snowball effect.

by dcmetsfan on Mar 31, 2011 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

well said

Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?

by KeithsMoustache on Mar 31, 2011 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Concurred

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Mar 31, 2011 8:03 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I think the other thing is

The fact that they “have no money” will somehow effect whether this year’s team can win or not. In reality, those 25 guys could care less about the Mets financial problems, they go out everyday and just play. Their lineup doesn’t really have an easy out anymore, and there’s enough talent to do some serious offensive damage. Most of the main stream media has completely overlooked that.

by David G on Apr 4, 2011 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Over at ESPN Rubin is already talking about a possible trade scenario of Reyes to San Francisco.

"You can spend minutes, hours, days weeks or even months overanalyzing a situation; trying to put the pieces together, justifying what would’ve, could’ve happened – or you can just leave the pieces on the floor and move the **** on."
-Tupac Amaru Shakur

by NetsMets4Life on Mar 31, 2011 5:19 PM EDT reply actions  

He lobby for GM job?

Sorry, but it doesn’t get old for me.

"Sometimes you make a mistake and you get hit in the head." - Eli Manning

by blains2000 on Mar 31, 2011 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

He also lobby to be a jerk.

"You can spend minutes, hours, days weeks or even months overanalyzing a situation; trying to put the pieces together, justifying what would’ve, could’ve happened – or you can just leave the pieces on the floor and move the **** on."
-Tupac Amaru Shakur

by NetsMets4Life on Mar 31, 2011 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

i'd take that deal

Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?

by KeithsMoustache on Mar 31, 2011 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

The saddest reyes deal I saw

was Joel Sherman suggesting they’d deal him this summer to the Reds for Zack Cozart and Homer Bailey. Ugh. Cozrt will be 26 in August and his OBP was .310 in AAA last year.

by wobatus on Apr 1, 2011 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

And Bailey was a mostly flop of a prospect until last year

And even then he didn’t come close to fulfilling his promise.

Save Jenrry Mejia!

by Ogre39666 on Apr 1, 2011 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good God is that awful.

Thus Spoke Keith Hernandez

Twitter: ThomasTSKH

"Everything's gonna be awesome." -Ken Oberkfell
"ARSHAVIN IS MAGIC" -Brooks Peck

by Thomas Wachtel on Apr 2, 2011 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why is everyone trying to trade Reyes?

Geeze…

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Mar 31, 2011 8:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

TRAID TEH CORE !!!!!!

A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.

by fxcarden on Mar 31, 2011 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

rule 1 of AA

Dont talk about TRAIDIN TEH CORE!!!!!!!

unless your tlaking about voltron. ship him if hes productive for an arm cause hes selfish

I hate Philadelphia so much.

by the caveman on Mar 31, 2011 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

semi-off topic

Rubins dad was my high school genetics teacher. I would stay after class to hear what he thought of his sons escapades with omar.

by islesftw on Apr 4, 2011 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sports Media

In recent years I’ve been able to figure of the Sports Media. For Baseball the media is kissing the ass of the Yankees, the Phillies and obviously the WS champion. In football its the Colts, the Pats, Bret Favre and the Cowboys, basketball its Celtics, Lakers and LeBron. Sadly the NHL gets virtually no love as it is. The sports media loves to kick teams who are down, especially big market teams. SI, ESPN, Mike Francesa and the rest can piss off, the team can shut them all up by doing what no one expects them to do.

by BlueChill on Mar 31, 2011 7:29 PM EDT reply actions  

amen to all this

this may just be one of the better pieces i have ever read

metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?

by dabu7 on Mar 31, 2011 7:39 PM EDT reply actions  

i hate si prodictions

i also hate when they say “rival scout” or “baseball scout” when they give a prodiction. i honestly don’t believe a good scout sees more upside with the nats this year then the mets. and who decided livan hernandez is a good #1 when pelfrey is no better than a “solid” 3. i guess 15-6 and still young is 3 material

"it's not easy being green"-kermit the frog
"we the mets are an improved ball club, now we lose in extra innings"-casy stengal
i cant spell a nosebleed
he's gone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!OLIE PEREZ IS GONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by rexthejet on Apr 1, 2011 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sad but true.

That 99 ERA+ from 2008 through 2010 is nothing remotely special, particularly when we consider that his game is tailor-made for Citi and Shea.

by Brian Singer on Apr 3, 2011 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Luckily

he’s also probably our third-best pitcher, no?

Thus Spoke Keith Hernandez

Twitter: ThomasTSKH

"Everything's gonna be awesome." -Ken Oberkfell
"ARSHAVIN IS MAGIC" -Brooks Peck

by Thomas Wachtel on Apr 4, 2011 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

There are three major groups

that get paid even though they fail more often than succeed:

1) Baseball hitters

2) Weather forecasters

3) MSM columnists making pre season predictions.

What's the score, boys?
What did Bugs Bunny do?
What's with the Carrot League baseball today?

by StorkFan on Mar 31, 2011 8:57 PM EDT reply actions  

McShay is worse

You could drop an iguana on a keyboard and end up with better picks.

by tmu on Apr 4, 2011 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

plus

4) anybody drafted by the oakland raiders

metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?

by dabu7 on Mar 31, 2011 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Two words:

Jamarcus Russell.

"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."

by BobbyV_Incognito on Apr 1, 2011 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

I mean, I don't really care enough to argue it very much

but as big of a failure Russel was, Wooden was at least as much of a success.

Save Jenrry Mejia!

by Ogre39666 on Apr 1, 2011 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

woodson was yrs ago, back when the raiders were actually good and maybe al davis still operated at a quarter of brain power

mcfadden has been alright but quite injury prone and hasnt been the superstar they (or i for that matter) thought he’d be. and dont forget darius heyward bey

metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?

by dabu7 on Apr 1, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

another group, all by himself, is oliver perez

"it's not easy being green"-kermit the frog
"we the mets are an improved ball club, now we lose in extra innings"-casy stengal
i cant spell a nosebleed
he's gone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!OLIE PEREZ IS GONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by rexthejet on Apr 1, 2011 1:08 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

completely true

i cant agree more, in the build up to opening day the internet, radio and tv were flooded with the same commentary about the Mets, it was like they all were repeating the same no stats, no comparisons between our opening day team from a year ago and the opening day team this year, its all been praise to the phillies big 4, Atlanta as a lock for the wild card has also been a popular commentary and how the Marlins are a good team and how the nationals are at par with the mets, thats nonsense their rotation is completely awful and the Mets lineup hands down as a whole is better than the nationals and marlins, and as good as the Braves, sports writers are quick to pour on the NY hate!!

Audentes fortuna iuvat

by Bianconero on Apr 4, 2011 4:17 PM EDT reply actions  

Season's young, but

Last year at this time, I just knew that season was going to be awful. No faith in Omar, none in Jerry, and felt the team just was weighed down by injuries, bad contracts and more. Instant Karma spread over the land and it was bad.
This year is completely different. Management can set a good course and follow it. Collins seems aggressive and able to inspire the team. I feel good about this year.
(Of course, if K-Rod actually lost game two, I’d be back on the ledge, cancelling my MB11 app and looking for a last will and testament app.)

by popshobby on Apr 4, 2011 4:45 PM EDT reply actions  

Yea it was about game 2 last year when we were thinking

“why is mike jacobs playing, ever?”

I believe in one Dickey, Maker of knuckles and balls

by HotChipWillBreakYourLegs on Apr 4, 2011 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Game 1 for me.

"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."

by BobbyV_Incognito on Apr 4, 2011 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was being kind

ha

I believe in one Dickey, Maker of knuckles and balls

by HotChipWillBreakYourLegs on Apr 4, 2011 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

I dont think I have ever seen the SI be right...ever!

A few years ago (2007 I think) they picked the Mets to win the world series before the season started…how did that work out for them,?

One 15 minute call could save you hundreds on your Dickey insurance. Your going to need it punk!

by ScottfromPeekskill on Apr 4, 2011 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Even worse...

they picked us to win it all in 2009.

by supermets on Apr 4, 2011 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Instead of tuna salad and being intimidated by women,

chicken salad and going right up to them!

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!

by Steve Schreiber on Apr 4, 2011 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

up there!

with out all the assistance, of the big four

by the mookie monster on Apr 4, 2011 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Recs for both of you.

Buddy Rich lines rule!

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!

by Steve Schreiber on Apr 4, 2011 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I for one

am excited that the mets have no expectaions to win.

Non-Blog Sports Media in general is bad.
Add in the pathetic NY Sports Media to that and its extra bad.
Add in the fact that its all Yankee love and Met hate for them and its super extra bad.

Let them ignore us. I would rather the team not have the distraction.

I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."

by gbaked on Apr 4, 2011 6:02 PM EDT reply actions  

Disagree

This may stem from the level of intimacy we have with the team, but I firmly disagree with the notion that the rotation is significantly weakened from last season. It’s this belief, coupled with a strong lineup and deep bullpen, that has given me hope the Mets can stay within striking distance of the playoffs until Johan comes back.

Sure, my POV could be totally biased, but look at the Yankee rotation (for the sake of convenience.) Who are their 4/5 starters? Who do they have in the minors that could come in and pitch reasonably well for them? Obviously, their concerns about the back end of their rotation is mitigated by their All Star lineup, strong bullpen, and ability to add payroll at the deadline to address any rotation issues. However, the way I see it, this Mets rotation has 5 pitchers who will keep them in games through 5/6 innings, as opposed to last year when you had to deal with Ollie and Maine getting smoked and exhausting the bullpen. Of course, health is a key component to the Mets success this season, but I maintain that what their rotation lacks in high ceiling excellent, it somewhat makes up for in being solid pitchers that do a good job of avoiding catastrophe.

As for MSM writers being “lazy” I think it’s either lazy or stupid to think that the Madoff issue will trickle down to on field results. I really don’t see what the Madoff scandal has to do with how David Wright hits, Jose Reyes fields, or Jon Niese pitches.

by keithprime on Apr 4, 2011 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

well

fine but i’d say any rotation without Johan is a weaker rotation. I hope too that the reclamation projects at the end of this rotation fare better than Maine and Ollie, but that’s just speculation.

I don’t know how Wilpon’s finances will affect this team on the field, other than the obvious observations that 1) it won’t help and 2)it could distract and 3) if they got near a wildcard it might lessen the chances of the mets spending/committing to some big trade piece. But i don’t think it’s unreasonable to worry that a midseason firesale—whatever its impetus— may commence earlier than it might if the finances were stable. Anything is possible with the Wilpons who have not been forthcoming at any other stage of this debacle.

I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya

by itsmetsforme on Apr 4, 2011 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

RE: Speculation

Sure, a Johan-less rotation is weaker, but I don’t think it will be significantly weaker as the MSM believes. It’s reasonable to expect improvements from Niese and Dickey, Pelfrey is Pelfrey, and Capuano/Young are wildcards but still somewhat projectable, given health.

Here’s the thing, at least with speculation regarding Capuano/Young, we have reasonable ways of projecting how they will perform if they give the team X amount of starts. The Madoff stuff, whether it will be a distraction or whether it will result in a firesale, is basically imagining possible fallouts and making a random, rather than educated, guess.

by keithprime on Apr 4, 2011 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

im in no way

suggesting that I don’t like the Capuano/Young gambles, but multiple Tommy Johns don’t suggest stable projections to me at all. Whereas it seems very likely that the Mets won’t be adding payroll anytime soon. Less likely but also imaginable is that Reyes’ performance suffers as his name gets bandied about as trade bait in the world’s most intense media environment.

I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya

by itsmetsforme on Apr 4, 2011 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with this on the rotation front.

Certainly, this team doesn’t have a flashy rotation like the Phillies, Braves or even the Marlins. However, they do seem to have quality pitchers one through five who, on most nights, will keep you in the game (and obviously it’s still early with Capuano and Young but looking at their history, this is where they’ve both fit in). There’s no real ace or stopper, although Dickey might be able to plug that hole (pause).

But I look at the past few years and see that most of the time, we had a heap of trash in our rotation—Livan Hernandez? Tim Redding? Backups like Brian Lawrence and Jeremi Gonzalez and Jose Lima? Who knows…maybe Capuano is 2011’s Brian Lawrence, except in a more prominent role. However, I have much more faith in this front office that they actually did their homework and their due diligence in figuring out that these guys would be healthy and effective options in the rotation, whereas it seemed Minaya just picked up starters who had at one point pitched in the major leagues regardless of whether they’d been good or not in recent years (and I hate to say it, but I include Dickey in this group…I just don’t see Omar having the savvy to say “this guy’s knuckleball has improved a lot and I think he could really be a steal as a rotation piece for us”. I see it more as “he’s thrown 450 big league innings and he’ll take a minor league deal…sign him up as rotation depth for Buffalo” and fortunately, he lucked into a solid starter.)

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!

by Steve Schreiber on Apr 4, 2011 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

One more thing

I disagree with the idea that the Mets have been a “terrible” team. They had to deal with an absurd amount of injuries in 2009 and in 2010 they finished 4 games under .500 despite horrific roster management heading into the season, injuries and poor performance from key players, and carrying a few black holes on the roster.

I don’t think anyone is seriously expecting a playoff run, but an over .500 club isn’t that outrageous. Then, with a little bit of luck, who knows what could happen? The takeaway is that this team wasn’t so awful that some smart moves, albeit small ones, couldn’t result in a bump up in record.

Put another way, ask yourself this: What did the Mets do this offseason that makes the MSM think they’ll be worse than last year?

by keithprime on Apr 4, 2011 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

we have to agree to disagree on this

for me, they are awful until proven otherwise. I guess we can start testing the black hole theory of mets failure now.

Again I don’t dissect the “MSM” with anywhere near the interest as some do, but c’mon, the media probably look at the fact that Bay, Johan and Beltran are injured or are almost certain to see diminished participation this season when argue the Mets will be worse. To me that isn’t an unreasonable inference at all. The media may put less stock in the (improved?) cast of support players then an everyday Met fan would. I am hoping that Wright and Reyes (fingers crossed) have the years they are capable of but I hope that every year.

I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya

by itsmetsforme on Apr 4, 2011 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

MSM Blindspot

You raise another point. The MSM seems to have no trouble accounting for regression of older/injury prone players, yet they are almost always shocked when a young player “comes out of nowhere” and improves or “makes a leap.”

by keithprime on Apr 4, 2011 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

aren't we all?

how is this solely a MSM problem? It’s a front office problem too. It is probably true that national media are less attuned to the subtitles of the supporting cast or young players, but we also tend to overrate our own hopes.
And i think you’re right that projections tend to bracket age based regressions.

I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya

by itsmetsforme on Apr 4, 2011 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

You can get a hecks yeah

for pointing out that we tend to get too excited about young players. Chris “Animal” Carter, anyone? Lastings Milledge? Oh, I guess they “weren’t used properly,” right?

Suuuurrrrre. . . .

by tmu on Apr 4, 2011 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

im still waiting for

alex escobar to come home

I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya

by itsmetsforme on Apr 4, 2011 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

fair?

he was the original great hope for me. was he even still a met when he tore his acl?

I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya

by itsmetsforme on Apr 4, 2011 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's not the type of young player I'm talking about.

Neither Carter nor Milledge had accomplished anything at the MLB level to get excited about or to project they would improve much.

Players like Davis, Niese, Thole, and to a lesser extent Duda and Murphy have all had varying levels of success in the majors and it isn’t being overly optimistic to expect reasonable improvements typical in young players.

Further, having Thole, Dickey and even Pagan and Davis in the lineup for the entire season presents an upgrade over who got their playing time last year before even accounting for any improvements.

by keithprime on Apr 4, 2011 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

No one was expecting Chris Carter to be anything more than platoon type player

And everyone here wishes we kept Wagner and offered him arbitration rather than make that trade (Don’t worry though, I’m sure Eddie Lora will be a beast). And Milledge was ranked 11th by BA one year, damn right we were excited. He was mismanaged by Willie, spending way too much time on the bench in favor of Shawn Green, but obviously he didn’t pan out as most prospects don’t.

by Evan_S on Apr 4, 2011 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who got too excited for The Animal?

No one thought he was going to be a star. A useful piece? Yeah, but that’s far from getting “too excited” about somebody.

Save Jenrry Mejia!

by Ogre39666 on Apr 5, 2011 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think he's mistaking out affection for him as expectation.

"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."

by BobbyV_Incognito on Apr 5, 2011 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

i thought we were just afraid of him

I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya

by itsmetsforme on Apr 5, 2011 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

His crew cut alone killed three men

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Apr 5, 2011 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Chris Carter

could be an effective DH. I think that’s still true, he can hit, just has no business in the outfield.

by David G on Apr 5, 2011 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Milledge

He looks like he may be a good bench piece for the White Sox this year, and they have some injury prone outfielders.

by wobatus on Apr 5, 2011 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

When you're making predictions

You usually don’t include error bars. By picking the Mets last (and even justifying it), you’re not foreclosing the possibility that, hey, a lot could break right and they could win 83 games.

The Mets don’t have to be worse than last year to have a worse record, either. Teams in the division are getting better faster.

by tmu on Apr 4, 2011 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who's getting better faster?

Speaking of overrating young players, we definitely have a tendency of over-hyping other team’s prospects.

by keithprime on Apr 4, 2011 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

What did the Mets do this offseason that makes the MSM think they’ll be worse than last year?

In my opinion there are only two negative factors, both of which can prove very significant though:

1) Johan’s injury
2) The danger of summer fire sale

Other than that, the Mets should be definitely better this year.

by alexSVK on Apr 5, 2011 3:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

I liked what you wrote

and I therefore rec’d it, but I think there’s a point to be made somewhere along the continuum from beat writers to baseball generalists to sports generalists. The latter are the people who fall back on “the narrative” more often than not (Mets = mess, disarray, collapse, etc.) At 50,000 feet, where they operate, the equation is simple — extremely high payroll, mediocre to bad team. Eh — it is what it is. On the other end of the spectrum, the beat writers may not adhere to a stat-centric worldview, but they know the team. It’s the Starks of the world — the “baseball” people who trade on allegedly “knowing better”, who annoy when they default to “the narrative.” They can do better than rely on general, amorphous trends — Marlins, forever upward; Mets forever down.

by tmu on Apr 4, 2011 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I think that's right

My complaint is with the generalists, if you will. There are so few really good sports writers of the Posnanski type – guys who not only write well but really understand what they’re talking about. Even someone like Lupica is a shell of what he once was. Sadly Jayson Stark wouldn’t even qualify for the bottom half of baseball writers compared to some of what I have seen.

And is it really asking too much for writers who get paid to analyze sports to break free of the cliche-ridden world so many inhabit? I’m not asking each of them to become saber-experts, but can’t we expect better from the “experts?”

by dcmetsfan on Apr 4, 2011 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Excellent, excellent Fan Post.

Thank you for voicing what I am sure many of us have been thinking.

by keithprime on Apr 4, 2011 6:26 PM EDT reply actions  

Watch in June if the Mets are contending

there will be all these MSM stories about “Look Out for the Mets!” with lead-ins like “no one in their right mind could have expected the Mets to contend with the Phils and Braves this year… oh well, that’s baseball!”

by David G on Apr 4, 2011 7:10 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeah, I'm already calling it

If the Mets sniff contention through most of the year, there’s a good bet that Terry Collins will wind up being Manager of the Year. And why? Because Manager of the Year is basically the “team that the sports media incorrectly forecast as being terrible but who outperform expectations, even if rational, non mind-numbed writer robots accurately predicted wouldn’t be that awful” Award. Granted it’s a mouthful, so perhaps it should simply be named the Joe Girardi Memorial Trophy.

by dcmetsfan on Apr 5, 2011 8:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Thank you, DC Mets fan

This post is fantastic. You have a very good writing style. Please post more.

Lets go Mets!

Thank you Matt Moulson!
It doesn't hurt being an Islander fan....but it sure hurts playing for them...get well soon, um, everybody....

by CharlieIsles on Apr 5, 2011 7:33 AM EDT reply actions  

Every One Of You Here...

… should thank the sports media for its attitude and though-processes. If it wasn’t for that, you would never had had sabermetrics and the growth of statistical analysis.

Remember this: If everyone agreed, then where would all the fun be?

"We praise or blame as one or the other affords more opportunity for exhibiting our power of judgment." Friedrich Nietzsche, "Human,All Too Human" (1878)

by wgarrett on Apr 5, 2011 12:56 PM EDT reply actions  

That’s the answer I always give when people ask if I’m frustrated that not everybody is into sabermetrics. It would be really boring if everyone agreed with me and there would be less opportunity for snark.

--
Dan Szymborski
Dan's Stuff is on: BTF, ESPN, Twitter

by D.Szymborski on Apr 5, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

If the MSM weren't so stupid

then Sabermetrics wouldn’t be called Sabermetrics; it’d be called “normal”.

Save Jenrry Mejia!

by Ogre39666 on Apr 5, 2011 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

In that world,

we’d be the people using winning percentage and RBI. Scary thought.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Apr 6, 2011 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

Let me give it a try:

DEREK JETER IS THE GREATEST PLAYER EVER BECAUSE OF ALL HIS RINGZ AND RBIS AND GOLD GLOVES THAT HE DESERVED BECAUSE HE’S REALLY GOOD AT SHORTSTOP!!!! REMEMBER THAT PLAY AGAINST THE RED SOX WHERE HE DOVE FACE FIRST INTO THE STANDS? THAT’S WORTH 5 GOLD GLOVES ALONE!!!!

ALSO, WE WANT THE MANSION NOT THE CONDO!!!

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!

by Steve Schreiber on Apr 6, 2011 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

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