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Around SBN: VIDEO: Veterans Share Favorite Sports Memories

A Tepid Defense Of The Black Jerseys

The Mets introduced black to their uniform color scheme in the late 1990s, after decades of sticking with the "orange and blue" mentioned in "Meet The Mets". Black jerseys and hats have featured prominently in the Mets' uniform rotation ever since. Generally speaking, fans have either heatedly loathed the black jerseys (see: The Mets Police) or expressed neutral-to-slightly-positive sentiments about them. Effusive praise is rare. I'm in the neutral category but understand the case for canning the black -- a fad from the 1990s shouldn't replace the franchise's roots. White jerseys with blue pinstripes and orange coloring are as synonymous with the Mets as Tom Seaver and Wally Backman.

For the Mets public relations director sick of hearing complaints, I have some tepid defenses for the black jerseys. Tepid, as the defenses are either flawed or somewhat silly. And because the topic is something about which I just cannot get heated.

Star-divide

1. The black conjures memories of Mike Piazza, Edgardo Alfonzo, Al Leiter and the late 1990s/early 2000s teams, one of the more memorable groups in Mets history. Although ringless, that crew boasted multiple future Hall of Famers, several of the best homegrown Mets ever, enough memorable moments to fill a book and a colorful manager to lead them. What color jersey was Robin Ventura wearing as he smashed the Grand Slam Single? How about Piazza when he homered to cap the 10-run eighth inning on Fireworks Night to beat the Braves? When I picture Piazza-the-Met, he's wearing a black jersey.

The counter-argument is that this doesn't address the legitimacy of the black jerseys. It merely asserts that the black's association with something awesome transfers that awesomeness. That's an admittedly strong point, to which I respond: "The Best Infield Ever wore black jerseys, your argument is invalid".

Best_infield_ever_medium

2. The t-shirt seems to be the most common choice of apparel for a Met fan attending a game. Specifically, the player name and number t-shirt. They are available in several different colors -- blue, orange, white, grey, black, etc. Of them all, the black shirts mask a sweat outbreak best. The accumulation of perspiration on the clothing of a casual male or female is unsightly and often comical, for whatever reasons. When it's 93 degrees in July at Citi Field, black helps one look like less of a sweaty mess. Grey is the worst at this; blue is also ineffective; white is decent but has a cheap, homemade look; orange is up to the task but not quite as effective as black. Throw on a black Jose Reyes #7 t-shirt and you can sweat all day in the upper deck without anyone having a clue.

3. The Mets were created after the Brooklyn Dodgers and New York Giants departed for California in 1957. Dodger blue and Giants orange combined to form the original Mets colors in 1962. Fast forward to present day, where the official colors are blue, white, orange, and black. Maybe it's an ex post facto stretch, but that's blue and white to represent the Dodgers, and orange and black to represent the Giants. The goal of preserving the memory of New York's old National League is met, and more thoroughly than originally planned.

4. Black clothing is badass:

Batman_medium

Leevancleef_medium

Morpheus_medium

Ian_malcolm_medium

Darth_vader_medium

A problem: one could make this case for any color. Yellow has The Bride. Purple has The Joker. So this is basically an excuse to reference some of my favorite fictional characters, borne out of a giddy excitement for the transition from the worst month, February, to arguably the best month, March.

February means the end of football. The new movies are terrible. Work is at its most stressful level, for me at least. The weather is unbearable (snow is less fun post-college). The black jerseys suggest George Clooney's Batman.

March is a turnaround point. The celebration of St. Patrick's Day previews the barbecues of summer. Treadmills are traded for pavement. March Madness commences, providing fans with the greatest postseason event in all of sports. The stress level at work drops sharply. Most importantly, live baseball games are a thing. Manufactured stories about Ollie and Luis failing to report to camp early are forgotten. The banal "Terry Collins Loves Daniel Murphy's Work Ethic" type reports fade into nothingness, as they should. Real games are played, in which stuff actually worth discussing happens. The black jerseys evoke Christian Bale's Batman.

March means the anticipation of Opening Day and 162 games of Mets baseball. That anticipation is often superior to the actual event. Think the days leading up to Christmas morning as a kid. The last few seasons of Mets baseball have unfortunately failed to live up to the optimistic hope of March. But it's that time of year again, a time to get happy and watch major league players do their thing in sparsely-filled Florida ballparks.

To recap: March is awesome and the black jerseys aren't the devil. But if you think they are, I won't protest.

Comment 152 comments  |  5 recs  | 

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Personally

The black jerseys are my fave. I have a black Piazza jersey (that actually used to be my dad’s and he passed down to me) that I love. But the black’s always been my fave jersey. No real argument for it. Just personal preference.

by MetRayGirl on Mar 4, 2011 11:55 PM EST reply actions  

Agreed

Was the first Met jersey I bought, and mostly wear ever since

by Xfactor26 on Mar 6, 2011 11:00 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't like

the black jersey implying that the color of shirt makes you badass rather than your play on the field.

Give me pink with hello kitty on it and win WS after WS.

Ain’t what you wear it’s how you play.

The Mrs likes the black jersey.

Guess that whole slimming thing……. better stop before I get into trouble.

by JavaJoe on Mar 4, 2011 11:57 PM EST reply actions  

I'm ok with black.

But I’d only like to see it once a month. Two at most. It gives me a chance to wear mine. Along with the pinstripes and away gray ones I have.

by SFloridaMetsFan on Mar 5, 2011 12:14 AM EST via mobile reply actions  

I hate the away grey

the way some people hate the black. I guess I’d vote for a black with more orange, as BlackOps suggests.

by Curtis3331 on Mar 5, 2011 2:36 AM EST up reply actions  

I kind of like them, but I feel they're a bit overused.

Although, this suggests they’re underused:

The black jerseys evoke Christian Bale’s Batman.

Save Jenrry Mejia!

by Ogre39666 on Mar 5, 2011 12:17 AM EST reply actions  

I like the black

most for your reason # 2 the stain disguising. Attending a sporting event in a crowded stadium is essentially running a condiment gauntlet. I would simply never wear a jersey to a game if my only choice was white.

by Jay_What on Mar 5, 2011 12:18 AM EST reply actions  

I have a confession to make.

I live and grew up in Minnesota, but my dad was from Ohio, so he never liked any Minnesota teams. I never felt any connection to the Twins because of that, but I didn’t get attached to his team (the Indians), either. When I started getting into baseball, I felt pretty free to “choose” a team at random. The team that always stuck in my head was the Mets, because I remember seeing them in the black jerseys, and I guess my ten-year-old self also thought that black clothing was badass. So I guess I wouldn’t be a Mets fan if it hadn’t been for the black jerseys. It’s sad, but true.

by EricAColucci on Mar 5, 2011 12:28 AM EST reply actions  

You really could have chose any team?

and you chose…The Mets

Yogi on the 1969 NY Mets....." overwhelming underdogs "

by SuperSantana on Mar 5, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions  

At least he didn't choose the Pirates.

"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."

by BobbyV_Incognito on Mar 6, 2011 11:59 AM EST up reply actions  

The black is fine

but the royal blue piping and lettering isn’t. It just doesn’t work. I’d see it more fit to do a duo of alternate jersey’s. One done after the SF Giants black alternates with orange piping and lettering. The other done in a Dodger blue jersey with all white lettering/ piping. It’d be fitting to pay homage to BDMF’s handle to boot.

"Intelligence is not a genetic predisposition. Think stupid!!"

by Wright of passage on Mar 5, 2011 12:30 AM EST reply actions  

I like the blue piping a lot

To me, black and blue is a great color combo.

"The Mets are gonna be amazin'!" - Casey Stengel
"Bounding and astounding!" - Clyde Frazier
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden

by Russ on Mar 5, 2011 9:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah

Black with only orange might be a little too Giants-ish.

Save Jenrry Mejia!

by Ogre39666 on Mar 5, 2011 12:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Black is great.

I like the gray most I think.

Darrelle Revis once won a game of Connect Four in three moves.

by bm01bath on Mar 5, 2011 12:31 AM EST reply actions  

black jerseys make me sad

of course the mets would be the franchise to jump on the ice cube/raiders black jersey fad a few years too late and then cling to it like stale dingleberries well past the expatriation date. you knew it was a bad idea when the whole marketing angle was to capitalize on the movie Men in Black (these were the METS in Black, naturally).

repugnant. i’m 100% for expurgating this travesty immediately.

or keep them and make more money on jersey sales, whatever.

HELLO HELLO MR WILPON... BUY THAT MANSION. WE DONT NEED A CONDO.

by kendynamo on Mar 5, 2011 12:37 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

Well said

I also don’t buy the fans like the black tee shirts argument. No reason they can’t continue selling black tee shirts; after all, the team doesn’t wear solid orange jerseys, but that doesn’t stop them from shilling the shirts.

by Shomov on Mar 5, 2011 9:10 AM EST up reply actions  

yeah i wouldnt mind rocking a black tee psuedo jersey style

i like those in just about any color, blue, orange, black, red (for beltran and puerto rico), green (for the irish hammer), plaid (for kevin mcreynolds).

HELLO HELLO MR WILPON... BUY THAT MANSION. WE DONT NEED A CONDO.

by kendynamo on Mar 5, 2011 11:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Yo that would be hot

They should run with the idea and commission Nike to make matching kicks. That would be bananas,

by Shomov on Mar 5, 2011 1:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Black jerseys are fine, but:

more orange.

I agree completely on March, I’m excited for conference tournaments.

Kicking knowledge in the face.

by BlackOps on Mar 5, 2011 12:56 AM EST reply actions  

they’re my favorite

"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

LET'S GO RANGERS!!!

by Moshe52792 on Mar 5, 2011 1:46 AM EST reply actions  

So do the Black Jerseies

give David Wright the right to yell SWEAR TO ME like Bale Batman after he hits a homerun?

"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"

by I'mGivingYouARaise on Mar 5, 2011 2:30 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

Only if he

gargles his voice in the right tone which Bale makes an overtly pathetic and uncomfortable attempt to do. Keaton will always be the best Batman. Not to take anything away from Tim Burton who was nothing short of a cinematic gothic genius at the time, but just imagine a young Michael Keaton taking the lead in a Chris Nolan directed film. Sickness.

"Intelligence is not a genetic predisposition. Think stupid!!"

by Wright of passage on Mar 5, 2011 8:24 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

You know they put an FX on it in post, right?

Keaton will always hold a special pace in my Batman-on-screen-heart, but let’s not kid ourselves here. No one has gotten both sides of Bruce Wayne like Bale has. Keaton was great as an awkwardly weird Bruce Wayne and his Batman was acceptable, but in total it left something to be desired. Bale understands the character like no actor has before. He’s as awesome with the cowl off as he is with it on – and he portrays “public Bruce” fantastically (heavily influences by his amazing Patrick Bateman). I really don’t even get the voice complaints. Nolan’s Batman film present a type of “hyper reality”. It makes sense if someone didn’t want people to know he was galavanting around the city dressed like a bat (and talking to people that know him), that he would disguise his voice. It also works as a intimidating tool.

Save Jenrry Mejia!

by Ogre39666 on Mar 5, 2011 12:37 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Adam West

is the greatest Batman of all time.

by TheBigStapler on Mar 6, 2011 9:01 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I like the black jerseys

Maybe they’re worn too much, but worn once a week or so is ok

Squeezed to Song and Bendtner and Song and Nasri oh lovely lovely lovely!
-Peter Drury, the one time his commentating has ever been acceptable.

by Aidan Gibson on Mar 5, 2011 6:30 AM EST reply actions  

get rid of them

you don’t see anyone clamoring to bring back the racing stripe just b/c the 80’s teams were great, do you? Let the black uni’s be remembered as the uni’s of the ‘99-’00 team, and be done with them. They’re awful.

2009 Did Not Happen

by cjmulrain on Mar 5, 2011 8:10 AM EST reply actions  

oh, and fwiw

b/c I know somebody’s gonna say it:

I’d rather have the racing stripes brought out once a month than the black uni’s. Why not, other teams have throwbacks they wear, the Mets can too.

2009 Did Not Happen

by cjmulrain on Mar 5, 2011 8:12 AM EST up reply actions  

I'd be scared of opening the door

to retro jersey’s with the same fear I have for Ouijia boards and opening doors to demons. I don’t want to ever see the space cadet crop circle / gender symbols scribed disasters in gray on black jersey’s. EVER!

"Intelligence is not a genetic predisposition. Think stupid!!"

by Wright of passage on Mar 5, 2011 8:37 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I was referring to this eye gouger

"Intelligence is not a genetic predisposition. Think stupid!!"

by Wright of passage on Mar 5, 2011 7:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Haha Turn Ahead the Clock Night

a classic day in Mets history.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!

by Steve Schreiber on Mar 5, 2011 9:38 PM EST up reply actions  

the mercury mets jersey was a thing of beauty (horror)

whoever designed those things is a genius, but also deserves to be shot for the horror he unleashed upon humanity

Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?

by KeithsMoustache on Mar 6, 2011 12:22 AM EST up reply actions  

Wasn't the designer

the clubhouse guy who got fired in the offseaon?

Squeezed to Song and Bendtner and Song and Nasri oh lovely lovely lovely!
-Peter Drury, the one time his commentating has ever been acceptable.

by Aidan Gibson on Mar 6, 2011 7:43 AM EST up reply actions  

yeah, believe so

guess he got what he deserved

Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?

by KeithsMoustache on Mar 6, 2011 11:34 AM EST up reply actions  

Are you guys serious?

Oh my god, Charlie Samuels, sportswear designer. lol.

by SuperT on Mar 6, 2011 12:50 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah if I remember correctly he was responsible for those jerseys

and is now wanted in the Hague for crimes against humanity

Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?

by KeithsMoustache on Mar 6, 2011 2:49 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

hell yeah

racings strips on polyester pullovers. i’m down.

HELLO HELLO MR WILPON... BUY THAT MANSION. WE DONT NEED A CONDO.

by kendynamo on Mar 5, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions  

How about Mets racing stripe leisure suits?

"The Mets are gonna be amazin'!" - Casey Stengel
"Bounding and astounding!" - Clyde Frazier
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden

by Russ on Mar 5, 2011 1:03 PM EST up reply actions  

i could maybe rock that too

HELLO HELLO MR WILPON... BUY THAT MANSION. WE DONT NEED A CONDO.

by kendynamo on Mar 6, 2011 12:43 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm sure

They’d bring ’em back for a throwback day sometime this season, it being the 25th anniversary of the last WS win and all

by MetRayGirl on Mar 5, 2011 3:03 PM EST up reply actions  

When I think of players the uniforms I imagine them in are:

Black:
-Beltran
-Delgado
-Piazza
-Alfonzo
-Pagan
-Ike
-Santana

White:
-Wright
-RA Dickey
-K-Rod
-Frenchy
-Bay

Grey
-Reyes
-Pelfrey
-Niese
-Ollie

For some reason, in my mind, there is just a slew of my favs in black unis which probably leaves me to like the black unis more than I should.

"go watch another episode of dahrma and greg you butt nutt"
-lohaus#54
The fan formely known as 0(+> (pronounced MetFanWithaPlan)

by JoeBighead on Mar 5, 2011 8:40 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

a hearty

I hate black

by jdon on Mar 5, 2011 9:05 AM EST via mobile reply actions  

I would be OK

with Traditional Home White Pinstripes
        Gray Road

No Black Hats Traditional Blue.

Then again I’m not trying to market a baseball shirt so I can send the proceeds to Madoff and turn a quick buck.

by JavaJoe on Mar 5, 2011 9:09 AM EST reply actions  

Dump the hybrid cap

We have four uniforms, only one of which is black.
We have three caps, of which two are black.

We should dump the black cap with the blue brim. If a third cap is needed, I say that we introduce an all blue hat with the Mets logo on front.

The black cap and uniform should only be worn together. All shirts under the uniforms should be blue. To me, the ugliest uni/cap/shirt combo that the Mets currently field is the snow white uni over a black shirt with the black/blue hybrid cap.

As for the black uni, as long as it sells, it is not going away. The Mets should limit its use to once a week. That is probably a good compromise.

"The Mets are gonna be amazin'!" - Casey Stengel
"Bounding and astounding!" - Clyde Frazier
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden

by Russ on Mar 5, 2011 9:47 AM EST reply actions  

Yes

I hate the black and blue hat is much worse than the black shirts.

by Phildo on Mar 5, 2011 10:04 AM EST up reply actions  

This.

I agree on this. They should scrap the black hat w/ blue rim, as well as the solid white jersey.

The combos I would like to see:

Home game (primary): Blue hat, cream-colored pinstripe uniforms
Home game (alternate): Black hats, black jersey

Road game (primary): Blue hat, grey uniforms
Road game (alternate): Black hat, black jersey (Bring back the “New York” black jersey!)

by sjohnson125 on Mar 5, 2011 10:17 AM EST up reply actions  

I actually think that they should keep the snow whites and dump the pinstripes

To me, the pinstripes = Yankees.

"The Mets are gonna be amazin'!" - Casey Stengel
"Bounding and astounding!" - Clyde Frazier
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden

by Russ on Mar 5, 2011 11:31 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

The cream jerseys are really nice though.

And just about every team has some type of pinstripe. They Yankees are just snooty enough to claim it as their own.

Save Jenrry Mejia!

by Ogre39666 on Mar 5, 2011 12:43 PM EST up reply actions  

IIRC, the Mets chose pinstripes as a nod to the Yankees

This means that is an explicit tie to the Yankees, which is why i’d like the tie severed.

"The Mets are gonna be amazin'!" - Casey Stengel
"Bounding and astounding!" - Clyde Frazier
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden

by Russ on Mar 5, 2011 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Really? WTF would they tell people that even if it's true?

Still those cream pinstripe jerseys are really nice IMO.

Save Jenrry Mejia!

by Ogre39666 on Mar 5, 2011 3:59 PM EST up reply actions  

I mean back in 1962, when the first unis were chosen

"The Mets are gonna be amazin'!" - Casey Stengel
"Bounding and astounding!" - Clyde Frazier
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden

by Russ on Mar 5, 2011 4:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I thought the pinstripes were a nod to the Giants, Brooklyn Dodgers, Russ

along with the orange and blue colors I mean.

"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"

by feslenraster on Mar 6, 2011 8:43 AM EST up reply actions  

I find that hard to believe

The AL-NL rivalry was fierce. I’d have to see a cite for this.

by SuperT on Mar 5, 2011 4:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Here are some citations:

Baseball Digest, February 1990 (p. 93)

“February 19, 1962: The Mets show off their first uniforms, which borrow orange from the Giants, blue from the Dodgers and pinstripes from the Yankees.”

Baseball vacations: a guide to big league teams, towns & tickets
by Daniel P. George
, Bon A Tirer Pub., 1991 (p. 154)

“Their uniforms had the Dodgers’ blue, the Giants’ orange and the Yankees’ pinstripes.”

Casey Stengel: a splendid baseball life
by Richard Bak, Taylor Pub. Co., 1997 (p. 159)

“The Mets, hoping to attract disgruntled Dodgers and Giants fans, had a familiar look. Their blue and orange uniforms combined the colors of the old Giants and Dodgers and emulated the Yankees’ famous pinstripes.”

"The Mets are gonna be amazin'!" - Casey Stengel
"Bounding and astounding!" - Clyde Frazier
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden

by Russ on Mar 5, 2011 4:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Okay, those are cites

But I’m still going to argue that it may have been just supposition on the writers’ part. We all know writers are apt to try to sound authoritative even when they’re not.

I mean, put yourself back into 1962, a bereft fan of the Dodgers or Giants. The city is getting – hooray! – a new National League team. Do you appreciate the “emulat[ion of] the Yankees’ famous pinstripes”? No. No, you do not.

by SuperT on Mar 5, 2011 6:16 PM EST up reply actions  

It is possible that the writers' have made a leap without an original source

However I can’t find any sources that articulate a different motivation for the choice of pinstripes.

"The Mets are gonna be amazin'!" - Casey Stengel
"Bounding and astounding!" - Clyde Frazier
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden

by Russ on Mar 5, 2011 6:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah

Are the Cubs and White Sox emulating the Yankees? Or each other? Or the Astros?

Thus Spoke Keith Hernandez

Twitter: ThomasTSKH

"Everything's gonna be awesome." -Ken Oberkfell
"ARSHAVIN IS MAGIC" -Brooks Peck

by Thomas Wachtel on Mar 6, 2011 12:08 AM EST up reply actions  

Or the Reds, Pirates, Phillies?

or the Twins, Rockies, Brewers, or Marlins?

Save Jenrry Mejia!

by Ogre39666 on Mar 6, 2011 2:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Are you sure that the Rockies, Brewers and Marlins

 wore pinstripes in 1962?

"The Mets are gonna be amazin'!" - Casey Stengel
"Bounding and astounding!" - Clyde Frazier
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden

by Russ on Mar 6, 2011 10:06 AM EST up reply actions  

No, but they wore them at some point.

Were they emulating the Yankees too?

Save Jenrry Mejia!

by Ogre39666 on Mar 6, 2011 10:29 AM EST up reply actions  

The point was the decisions the Mets made in 1962

That’s why the Mets have orange and blue, and why they wear pinstripes. All of the documentation that I can find points to the Mets incorporating the Yankees’ tradition of pinstripes into the Mets’ uniforms.

Do you have any evidence to the contrary?

"The Mets are gonna be amazin'!" - Casey Stengel
"Bounding and astounding!" - Clyde Frazier
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden

by Russ on Mar 6, 2011 11:07 AM EST up reply actions  

The Astros never used pinstripes until 1990

"The Mets are gonna be amazin'!" - Casey Stengel
"Bounding and astounding!" - Clyde Frazier
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden

by Russ on Mar 6, 2011 10:04 AM EST up reply actions  

DOH!!!

They never used pinstripes until 2000.

"The Mets are gonna be amazin'!" - Casey Stengel
"Bounding and astounding!" - Clyde Frazier
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden

by Russ on Mar 6, 2011 10:05 AM EST up reply actions  

Its not a question of need

The decision was made, so there was a reason for that. Even if it is “we just think that pinstripes are cool,” that would work. At this point, we have no documented explanation other than a nod to the Yankees.

"The Mets are gonna be amazin'!" - Casey Stengel
"Bounding and astounding!" - Clyde Frazier
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden

by Russ on Mar 6, 2011 10:04 AM EST up reply actions  

That's what I found in Google Books on the weekend

"The Mets are gonna be amazin'!" - Casey Stengel
"Bounding and astounding!" - Clyde Frazier
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden

by Russ on Mar 6, 2011 11:09 AM EST up reply actions  

Not putting any blame on you or anything.

I just don’t see why it would be an unspoken nod to the Yankees when pinstripes on baseball uniforms are the norm.

Save Jenrry Mejia!

by Ogre39666 on Mar 6, 2011 11:12 AM EST up reply actions  

I found a better source

Daley, Arthur. “A New Set of Pin-Stripes”. The New York Times, April 13, 1962, Sports p. 41

When Edna Stengel summoned her husband to dinner that day, the ancient pixie was still attired in the pin-strpe uniform with the orange and blue insignia – a triple-threat outfit which borrows the pin-stripe from the Yankees, the orange from the Giants and the blue from the Dodgers.

"The Mets are gonna be amazin'!" - Casey Stengel
"Bounding and astounding!" - Clyde Frazier
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden

by Russ on Mar 6, 2011 1:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Anyone else find it a bit queer

to address Casey Stengle as an “ancient pixie”?

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Mar 6, 2011 8:18 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Russ

Layin’ down the evidence!

by TheBigStapler on Mar 6, 2011 9:03 AM EST up reply actions  

Indeed they are.

They only used them in 1996 and their uniform company was different from MLB’s I beleive. I think MLB used Rawlings that year but the Mets had Majestic.

by Roger Abiague on Mar 6, 2011 8:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Finally

I’m not alone in thinking that

by Xfactor26 on Mar 6, 2011 10:54 AM EST up reply actions  

New York City Flag/Dutch Flag

New York City’s flag is orange, blue and white. No black. The NYC flag’s colors derive from those on the Dutch flag at the time New Amsterdam was founded in the 17th century. http://www.nyc.gov/html/nyc100/html/classroom/hist_info/nycflag.html
Those who remember their European history may recollect that the Dutch war for independence from Spain under William of Orange was an inspiring example of a relatively enlightened and progressive people seeking freedom from a repressive monarchy. The Dutch flag in the time of New Amsterdam honored that effort and New York City’s adoption of those colors reflects the City’s respect for that tradition. And the Mets’ use of orange, blue and white thus have an honorable historical basis.

by birtelcom on Mar 5, 2011 10:21 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

Interesting bit of history

I never knew the uniforms bore that significance.

by TheBigStapler on Mar 5, 2011 11:12 AM EST up reply actions  

The uniforms are not directly derived from the NYC flag

The blue and orange come from the Brooklyn Dodgers and New York Giants respectively. Here’s what the Mets web site says:

The Mets’ colors are Dodger blue and Giant orange, symbolic of the return of National League baseball to New York after the Dodgers and Giants moved to California. Blue and Orange are also the official colors of New York State.

"The Mets are gonna be amazin'!" - Casey Stengel
"Bounding and astounding!" - Clyde Frazier
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden

by Russ on Mar 5, 2011 11:36 AM EST up reply actions  

wouldn't that imply that it's derived from both sources?

the old NL teams and the dutch? the state colors of new york are blue and orange because of the dutch (who colonized first manhattan, then new york harbor and then the rest of the hudson valley).

HELLO HELLO MR WILPON... BUY THAT MANSION. WE DONT NEED A CONDO.

by kendynamo on Mar 5, 2011 11:53 AM EST up reply actions  

It could be indirectly derived

The Giants and Dodgers changed their colors many times through the years. Before 1947, the Giants used a light navy blue and white. The Dodgers used green and white in 1937. We tend to think of their colors as if they were unchanged going back to the 19th century, but that’s really not the case.

"The Mets are gonna be amazin'!" - Casey Stengel
"Bounding and astounding!" - Clyde Frazier
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden

by Russ on Mar 5, 2011 1:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Whether intentional, or wholly or partly coincidental,

the fact is, the traditional Mets uniforms of orange, blue and white do mirror the tricolor flag of New York City, and thus suggests a sense of “New York City’s team”. And the City flag colors come directly from the old Dutch flag of the plucky Netherlands states that spent 80 years trying, and ultimately succeeding, in freeing themselves from their Spanish imperial overlords, and that also successfully established the European settlement of what is now New York City and New York State. That all sounds like a history appropriate for the perennial underdog Mets to mirror in their uniform colors.

by birtelcom on Mar 5, 2011 2:02 PM EST up reply actions  

I do not like the black jerseys at all

the white ones are okay, I’d rather they use the pinstripes more often.

"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"

by feslenraster on Mar 5, 2011 10:56 AM EST reply actions  

I don't like the black as a home jersey

As an alternate away jersey I’m ok with it. I do love the grey aways, because I always picture Carlos Beltran in them after he hit a home run in his first at-bat on Opening Day in 2005.

Trying to believe is my full-time occupation.

by Preach19 on Mar 5, 2011 11:41 AM EST reply actions  

He looks so young

Random, but I remember his first 7 homers as a Met came in games started by Pedro.

by James Kannengieser on Mar 5, 2011 11:57 AM EST up reply actions  

He does look young

I can’t even imagine how being on this team in the past few years has worn on the players.

He tried so hard that year. It always seemed to me that he was popping up often, getting under the ball to try to hit home runs, even though his flyball rate was actually under his career average that year.

Was it first 7? I know he hit like 10 of the 16 in the games Petey pitched.

Trying to believe is my full-time occupation.

by Preach19 on Mar 5, 2011 2:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh his infield flyball rate was actually pretty high

So I was fairly accurate.

Trying to believe is my full-time occupation.

by Preach19 on Mar 5, 2011 2:27 PM EST up reply actions  

That's funny

I actually made it my username because that’s what I had nicknamed Ryan Church. It would have been a nice nickname for him had he not been knee’d in the head and had his career not spiraled so far downward.

Trying to believe is my full-time occupation.

by Preach19 on Mar 5, 2011 7:24 PM EST up reply actions  

It's not that they are new

They’re passe. They fall into that awkward territory where a trend is neither cutting edge nor traditional nor old enough to qualify as retro cool. Put them away for twenty years.

by Shomov on Mar 6, 2011 7:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Yep

That just about sums it up.

And they’re ugly.

by Shomov on Mar 6, 2011 10:45 AM EST up reply actions  

you know what else was cutting edge?

a certain someones sarcasm, and we just couldn’t understand the awesomeness of that either.

Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?

by KeithsMoustache on Mar 6, 2011 11:36 AM EST up reply actions  

I didn't intend to be sarcastic.

I think you’re being a little sensitive, but if I offended you, I apologize.

by Shomov on Mar 6, 2011 12:21 PM EST up reply actions  

it's an inside joke about another poster who liked to refer to his comments as "cutting edge sarcasm"

i took no offense. Sorry for any confusion.

Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?

by KeithsMoustache on Mar 6, 2011 12:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Sorry I didn't catch that

I also acknowledge that “cutting edge” is a terrible phrase to use when talking about baseball uniforms (or just about anything for that matter).

by Shomov on Mar 6, 2011 12:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I completely agree with this

"The Mets are gonna be amazin'!" - Casey Stengel
"Bounding and astounding!" - Clyde Frazier
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden

by Russ on Mar 6, 2011 11:10 AM EST up reply actions  

aesthetically the black is a matter of taste

so i respect other peoples opinions on the black. but if you removed all the black from every article of clothing on every mets players and all logos on any official merchandise and paraphernalia, would you lose any mets identity? would you even miss it at all?

you can’t take away the blue and the orange and still be the mets. you can get rid of the black tomorrow and not miss a beat. so i say simplify. and if you want to have an alternate all black jersey to break out once a month because many people like it and you can sell more merch, by all means, go right ahead. just dont clutter up the official logo and jersey with a superfluous color.

just MHO. i think its cool that other people dig the black unis.

HELLO HELLO MR WILPON... BUY THAT MANSION. WE DONT NEED A CONDO.

by kendynamo on Mar 6, 2011 12:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I said as much.

All the black is is a background color. Just like white, and the gray and the cream. The only difference is that we started using the black more recently. People gripe about black being added to the teams’ colors. Black is just there as a background. Gray is used as a background, and it’s not a team color. Same with white and cream.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Mar 6, 2011 5:59 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

but it's not just a background color

its used as a major accent color. if they didn’t have in the team name and logo and all over the place and just had it as an alternate jersey color they brought out once i month i wouldnt mind. but it’s been integrated into the teams main colors. that i dont like.

HELLO HELLO MR WILPON... BUY THAT MANSION. WE DONT NEED A CONDO.

by kendynamo on Mar 6, 2011 9:53 PM EST up reply actions  

look at all that black accenting

if all they had was a the alt 2 jersey in black and didnt utilize the color anywhere else i’d be fine. but they go crazy with the black highlights. gross. get that garbage out of here. ptui.

HELLO HELLO MR WILPON... BUY THAT MANSION. WE DONT NEED A CONDO.

by kendynamo on Mar 6, 2011 9:57 PM EST up reply actions  

It's still a generic background color.

The Yankees, their official colors are navy blue and white. Their away uniforms, they use gray as a generic background color. The Oakland A’s, their official colors are green, gold, and yellow. Their away uniforms, they use gray as a background color. The Reds, their official colors are red, white, and black. Their away uniforms, they use gray as a background color. The Phillies, red, white, and blue, and they use a gray background as a background color for their away uniforms.

Basically, every team in the MLB uses either gray or black in home/away uniforms (predominantly away colors, it seems), and more often than not, those blacks/grays do not reflect those teams’ actual team colors. Those generic grays and blacks are used as entire uniform backgrounds, or socks, or sometimes hats.

As for all the black accenting you’re citing, all I see that stands out (ignoring ALT 2, since you’re saying that’s okay in and of itself), is in the normal away colors, with the black socks/undershirt.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Mar 6, 2011 10:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Black accenting on the actual Mets logos:

There’s a little shading on the script that says ‘Mets’, but what other color can be used to simulate a shadow? And, for the interlocking NY, that’s only blue and orange.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Mar 6, 2011 10:07 PM EST up reply actions  

do a google image search for "mets logo"

and see how much black shows up. yuck. ditch all of it.

and gray and white are the traditional jersey colors. theyre not involved in a teams official colors. black is now an official team color and shows up all over the regular mets uniforms. i dislike that. and the old mets logo did not use black in the name logo. its not shadowing, its 3 dimensional “telescoping”. it doesnt need the black. get rid of all that nonsense. i also dont want black in the hats. phooey on that too.

1) no black in any logo or name or anything like that
2) get rid of all black accents in the uniform. it’[s not the background, its an added unnecessary color.
3) if you MUST have a black jersey to keep sales up, fine, where it every now and then (i’ll even permit black hats for the black unis). otherwise use orange blue and white like the always have. it looks better and is far less cluttered.

thats if i was running things. i totally get that people either dont mind or actually like the black unis, but it is not the same thing as saying it’s like the road grays. there is no gray in any teams’ official colors.

HELLO HELLO MR WILPON... BUY THAT MANSION. WE DONT NEED A CONDO.

by kendynamo on Mar 6, 2011 11:43 PM EST up reply actions  

ok on closer inspection is is a "shadow" effect

and not telescoping, for the most part. either way, you dont need black there. on the black unis and in the old logos they use blue letters with orange shadowing and it looks magnificent. when you add black it turns into a mess. blech.

HELLO HELLO MR WILPON... BUY THAT MANSION. WE DONT NEED A CONDO.

by kendynamo on Mar 6, 2011 11:46 PM EST up reply actions  

February is the best month

Yogi on the 1969 NY Mets....." overwhelming underdogs "

by SuperSantana on Mar 5, 2011 12:34 PM EST reply actions  

i'm against the black because we're five degrees warmer than the other team

Black as we all know, absorbs sunlight, the other team in whites are five degrees cooler than us, giving them an advantage. Could this effect be negated by switching to cotton?

by robotoverlord on Mar 5, 2011 12:36 PM EST reply actions  

Black radiates more heat than white

So if they’re used at night, our players might be cooler.

"The Mets are gonna be amazin'!" - Casey Stengel
"Bounding and astounding!" - Clyde Frazier
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden

by Russ on Mar 5, 2011 1:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Science is false hustle.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Mar 5, 2011 1:54 PM EST via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

never had a problem with the black uniforms

Grey is my favorite though.

Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?

by KeithsMoustache on Mar 5, 2011 12:57 PM EST reply actions  

I like the black uniforms.

"I bet you'd lobby her, you horny 15 year old!" -Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Double-Bobby-Jones/137806699125

metsguy234

by metsguy234 on Mar 5, 2011 2:03 PM EST reply actions  

Unapolegetic hate for the Black Uni

The full black uni is a bastard son in the met uniform catalog. I believe it is the extreme next step to the black shadowing of the word METS that appeared on the unis in the 90s.

Black shadowing of the team name is also a terrible 90s trend that id be ok with going away. As much as i tolerate the shadowing the whole black uni is awful, i feel that the black is like the venom alien slime that takes over its host to make that person super powerful(the late 90s/early 00s teams) yet kind of evil.

Black is evil. Evil is associated with the NY Yankees. enough said.

It was a cash grab idea that has lasted too long. Get rid of it. I suppose the fake “old” style cream jersey can fall under this catagory as well. Yet i dont have the hate for the cream jersey cause its closer to the mets proper jersey than the black.

This is the way i’d like the rotation to look. but as a fan i know i have no voice and it will never happen

Home standard-

Road standard-
with blue cap. i’d settle for the two tone but blue hat is always FTW

Sunday alt-

I hate Philadelphia so much.

by the caveman on Mar 5, 2011 2:12 PM EST reply actions  

mets have always had gray

Gray stays

I hate Philadelphia so much.

by the caveman on Mar 5, 2011 5:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I don't like gray either, but road uniforms can't be white

What if our road unis were cream, like the current pinstripe unis?

"The Mets are gonna be amazin'!" - Casey Stengel
"Bounding and astounding!" - Clyde Frazier
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden

by Russ on Mar 5, 2011 5:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Cream's too close to white

That’s why the MLB chose grey as the standard road uni jersey color, cause no team has it as an official team color, therefore their home jerseys won’t be that color. Cream jerseys versus white jerseys at a game would be too confusing for fans in the higher seats or with bad tvs.

by MetRayGirl on Mar 5, 2011 7:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Up until this year the Padres had sand-colored roads.


The cream uni’s are a shade lighter than the sand, but it could be tweaked some to make it work.

Save Jenrry Mejia!

by Ogre39666 on Mar 5, 2011 8:24 PM EST up reply actions  

The Mets road greys

a thing of beauty. Easily my favorite uniform.

by nrmax88 on Mar 6, 2011 2:49 AM EST up reply actions  

i would buy the hell out of a comic sans alt jersey

i would buy it so hard.

HELLO HELLO MR WILPON... BUY THAT MANSION. WE DONT NEED A CONDO.

by kendynamo on Mar 6, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions  

i like the classic pinstriped look the best

but i’m perfectly partial to the black as well

metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?

by dabu7 on Mar 6, 2011 12:54 AM EST reply actions  

pinstripes are for the yankees

I hate the pinstriped jerseys. The black jerseys and the white buttoned without stripes are the best. I think one thing we can all agree on is the pants length. Most players wear them way too long.

by Rats on Mar 6, 2011 3:43 AM EST reply actions  

Agreed

The Red Sox, Nats, O’s, Braves, Tigers, Rays, Mariners, Dodgers, Angels, A’s, Rangers don’t have pinstripes

by Xfactor26 on Mar 6, 2011 10:58 AM EST up reply actions  

And everyone else does or did at some point.

Pinstripes don’t belong to the Yankees. They’re just the only ones who are so full of themselves to think they do.

Save Jenrry Mejia!

by Ogre39666 on Mar 6, 2011 11:15 AM EST up reply actions  

Nope. Too long is a damn sight better

than that old elastic around the ankles. It’s hard work to find a man attractive when he’s sporting that look.

by SuperT on Mar 6, 2011 1:00 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Love the high socks.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Mar 6, 2011 6:04 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

If Dubs is whoring himself out to Socks for money

theres quite a tabloid story brewing.

Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?

by KeithsMoustache on Mar 7, 2011 10:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Who decides, on any given day, what jersey they wear?

I associate the black with Omar, it seems to me they thought we would over look the suckiness with connecting this team to the past through the jersey of Piazza.

Hey at least we don't have Dan Synder running the ship. D3PO for Life.

by Mookes7 on Mar 6, 2011 2:39 PM EST reply actions  

The black unis do predate Omar's reign of terror.

Not sure who chooses, though. Good question. I would assume the manager, but something tells me that’s not right.

"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."

by BobbyV_Incognito on Mar 6, 2011 2:46 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm 99% sure that it's that day's starting pitcher who chooses.

Unless it’s a special day, then it probably comes from the FO or higher.

Save Jenrry Mejia!

by Ogre39666 on Mar 6, 2011 2:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Noooo, your messing aboot

I thought it would be the GM or Wilpon

Hey at least we don't have Dan Synder running the ship. D3PO for Life.

by Mookes7 on Mar 6, 2011 2:56 PM EST up reply actions  

The clubhouse manager manages all that, picking the uniforms

In the past, that was Charlie Samuels. Not sure who the new guy is now that he’s gone.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Mar 6, 2011 6:02 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I hope the new guy drops the black

The jersey and backdrop

Hey at least we don't have Dan Synder running the ship. D3PO for Life.

by Mookes7 on Mar 6, 2011 6:39 PM EST up reply actions  

The black jerseys should be used...

for Spring training only. For our main uniforms I say just go back to the inaugural jerseys from 1962. The alternates could be the Cream White Jersey for home team and the late 1980’s gray road jersey with the orange and blue piping with New York in capital letters.

by Roger Abiague on Mar 6, 2011 8:13 PM EST reply actions  

Ugh. I'd rather go blind!

Lol

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Mar 6, 2011 8:22 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

i always liked the black jerseys

they seem to bring back great memories, i don’t remember the days with the blue and orange pinstripes. when i remember these jerseys, i see oliver perez, and i don’t like oliver perez.

"it's not easy being green"-kermit the frog
"we the mets are an improved ball club, now we lose in extra innings"-casy stengal
i cant spell a nosebleed
it's baseball season, and i hate you oliver perez!!!

by rexthejet on Mar 6, 2011 10:54 PM EST reply actions  

It depends on the team we're playing

I’m fine with wearing black against the Dodgers, Phillies or other brightly colored team. It provides contrast. Against dark-colored teams like the Yankees, Marlins, Pirates, etc. the Mets should wear blue. History could also play a role. Wearing black versus the Braves is cool because it brings back memories of the late 90s rivalry. Wearing blue against the Cardinals makes sense because that rivalry was heated in the mid 80s. The equipment manager should put some thought into this instead of seemingly throwing a uniform together at random.

Also, never, never, never wear the black hat with the home whites again.

Aaron
BT Powerhouse contributor
Let's go Mets, Giants, Knicks, Rangers, PSU

by apy5000 on Mar 7, 2011 11:12 AM EST reply actions  

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