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Around SBN: Full Coverage of 2012 Coke 600

Joel Sherman's Dog Whistle

Joel Sherman wrote an opinion piece in Sunday's New York Post that was clearly intended to rile up Mets fans. It wasn't so much a dog whistle as a blaring alarm, warning that the team should engage in a full-blown fire sale in order to hasten the rebuilding process. The money line (literally) was the prospect of the Mets having a $70 million payroll, roughly half what it is now.

I realize that opinion pieces are just that: opinions. Folks are entitled to whatever opinions they fancy, so long as their opinion doesn't interfere with other people's ability to have opinions. But I also feel that when advising a course of action, those opinions should be based on something a bit more solid than pure conjecture. And many of Sherman's opinions rest on assumptions, and even those are iffy propositions, at best.

Star-divide

I don't quite understand where Sherman is coming from or his true purpose for writing this column. Because after saying a fire sale would be anathema to Mets fans, he writes:

...it is one of the few gambits the Wilpons have left in trying to retain the team. This is not about endorsing Wilpon ownership. Because it probably would be best for the team and baseball if the Wilpons were to sell the club as a way to restore finances and faith in the Mets.

So he's admittedly outlining a course of action that fans would hate and would do nothing to help the team in either the financial or spiritual sense. Why, exactly? "Of course, it would be in best interests of the Libyan people if Qadaffi stepped down immediately, but here's how he can retain power."

Nevertheless, Sherman continues to describe a plan he apparently doesn't believe in.

Two executives heavily involved in major league finances said it would be wise for the Mets to reduce payroll dramatically; even to, say, the $70 million range as soon as the 2012 season. This hardly would solve all of the Wilpons’ financial problems because they carry hundreds of millions of dollars in debt before even learning their ultimate fate in the Madoff debacle.

But the two executives felt even a stripped-down version of the Mets still would draw no worse than two million spectators to Citi Field. That would allow the Mets to make money, moving banks to feel less edgy about current loans and, possibly, even consider future loans.

So the $70 million figure is based on assumptions from no one connected with the team (otherwise Sherman surely would have said so), but "two executives heavily involved in major league finances." Sherman doesn't say or even imply that this statement is anything more than what it is--a guess, basically--but it's clearly included as flashing red light for the kind of Mets fans who fear their team becoming "cheap."

As for what "a stripped-down version of the Mets" could expect to draw to the gate, I would dispute these unnamed executives' assumptions. Last year the Mets had just over 2.5 million paying customers at CitiField, with an average of about 32,000 per game. This was for a team that still had superstars like Jose Reyes and David Wright all year, fielded Carlos Beltran, Johan Santana, and Jason Bay for a good chunk of the season, and was in relative contention up until the All Star Break. It was also CitiField's second year of existence, and there were many people who were still coming to Flushing to see it for the first time.

Under Sherman's plan, you'd subtract all the players named above and possibly more while also removing any hope of competing. Add in the exponentially fading allure of a new stadium, and I doubt that even in New York a team could draw 2 million fans. Check out the Mets' attendance in the awful early-to-mid 1990s for a clue as to how that would go over. Not to mention that TV ratings for such teams would plummet as well, which would drive down ad revenues for SNY.

The Mets are not like MSG, whose teams remain cash cows even when they're not very good, thanks to the arena they play in, the relatively few number of home games, and season ticket base that draws heavily on well-heeled corporations. MLB teams have 81 home games, thus making each game less of an event and lessening the cachet of going to a game, particularly when the team playing those games is awful.

Sherman notes that Sandy Alderson is already on record saying next year's payroll will be significantly lower, due to money coming off the books for Oliver Perez, Luis Castillo, and, in all likelihood, Beltran and Reyes as well.

...why stop there? The 2012 Mets are unlikely to be legitimate contenders with a $110 million payroll, so why not get the long-term benefits — for the talent base and the Wilpons’ finances — of going further? Here is the question: Are the Mets closer to being a champion by continuing to try to build around what they have or by starting over — with the head start that could come from adding prospects through a fire sale?

I am loathe to make predictions about any team for this year, let alone the next. So I don't know how Sherman can say the Mets are unlikely to be "legitimate contenders" in 2012. Who's to say they don't resign Reyes? Who's to say they don't sign some other big free agent? I wouldn't bank on either event, but I wouldn't bank on waking up tomorrow, either. You simply can not say to me in March 2011 that the Mets will be a bad team in 2012.

The Mets long have conned themselves that they are just a player or two away from being of championship timber. But I don’t think any NL East team would trade all the players in their organization for those of the Mets. Even the Nationals can imagine their next three-to-seven years being better than the Mets’ simply by having Bryce Harper and Stephen Strasburg under control.

I take issue with the idea that the Mets are simply treading water. I don't think this team is as awful as they are often perceived to be, both by the media and fans. I'm not envisioning a championship, and Sherman's assessment that they are more than a player or two away from that level is probably true. But there is talent on this team, and potential as well. You can debate the limit of that potential, but the blow-it-up-and-start-over approach is for teams in much worse shape than the Mets.

While I agree the Mets farm system remains bereft of top-flight talent, this is another example of insisting on the undeniable truth of things that are pure conjecture. Strasburg looked amazing last year, and then his elbow exploded. Tommy John surgery is practically par for the course with pitchers these days, but who says he doesn't get hurt again? As for Harper, he is the best prospect in baseball, but I believe he got his first taste of major league pitching a week ago. You can't say the Nationals' next few seasons will be better than the Mets for sure based on the horizons of two players who've barely played at the professional level.

The Mets do not have a veteran making significant money who is likely to be a member of their next sustained contender, except perhaps Wright. So why not speed up the process of getting to that next strong roster? Because it will upset the fans? Really? Can they be more upset than they have been the past two years?

Can fans get more upset than they are now? Probably not. But they could get apathetic, which is far worse, and would result from dealing away every star they have. Fans who are mad still care, still come out to the stadium, still tune in at home. Take away a reason to care, and all of that emotion--and the revenue it generates--dries up. Thus, the whole purpose of such an austerity plan--to increase profitability--would be negated.

I wouldn't say that trading away some players, or allowing them to depart via free agency in order to pocket the draft picks, might not be in the best interests of the team. Getting rid of all their marketable pieces wouldn't be, for a million different reasons. Especially since, as Sherman argues, it would allow the Wilpons to retain the team, which nobody but the Wilpons seems to want.

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are why I can’t stand Joel Sherman. He’s always trying to make himself out like he’s this “tough, New York Journalist who asks the hard-hitting questions” when all he’s really doing is trolling and trying to make himself the story.

The Mets long have conned themselves that they are just a player or two away from being of championship timber. But I don’t think any NL East team would trade all the players in their organization for those of the Mets. Even the Nationals can imagine their next three-to-seven years being better than the Mets’ simply by having Bryce Harper and Stephen Strasburg under control.

Let’s play an admittedly retarded game. Instead of the Nationals and Mets, let’s plug in the Rays & Yankees. I don’t think the Rays would trade all the players in their organization for those of the Yankees. Therefore, by Sherman’s logic, the Yankees roster is shit & everyone should be traded.

And whenever I see “major league scouts/executives/those in the game,” I automatically assume that’s the writer inserting his or her own asinine opinion.

What's that about?

by Brian. on Mar 7, 2011 3:09 PM EST reply actions  

You are not comparing apples to apples

Sherman’s point is that no team in the league would trade for the Mets’ roster.

In your example of the AL East, the Rays might not trade for the Yanks’ roster, but the Jays and the Orioles most definitely would….so the comparison isn’t really the same.

by hunterfan on Mar 7, 2011 3:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Instead of league...

substitute division in my comment above. Sorry about that.

by hunterfan on Mar 7, 2011 3:13 PM EST up reply actions  

for the Mets, that is true primarily due to payroll constraints

I don’t think any team in the league would trade for the Yankees roster if it came with the attached payroll constraints either. Especially over the next three to seven years, over which the Yankees are royally screwed.

by djg2111 on Mar 7, 2011 3:35 PM EST up reply actions  

It still doesn't hold

I’ve been hearing the same crap about the Nationals for 5 years – oh, they’ve got a bunch of great prospects and will be really awesome in 2-3 years. Every years it’s the same garbage about their supposedly bright future, and every year they are just 2-3 years away. I’ll believe it when I see it.

The Marlins might have some great young talent, but will they keep it?

The Phillies have an aging roster with a lot of bad contracts. At least the awful contracts for the Mets are expiring in the next year or two. Their worst one (Howard) doesn’t even begin until next year. I’ll take my chances with Alderson and the Mets over Amaro and Phillies over the next half-decade or so.

The Braves – well, they’re good, so I’ll give him that one.

by dcmetsfan on Mar 7, 2011 3:58 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Or it's a statement on how stacked the NL East is.

And if we take Loria’s aversion to spending out of the equation, you can’t tell me that Wright, Reyes, Pagan, Davis, Dickey, and Niese aren’t better than the Florida Marlins Hanley&Johnson’s.

Save Jenrry Mejia!

by Ogre39666 on Mar 7, 2011 7:37 PM EST up reply actions  

One thing

Hasn’t there been research done that basically says people don’t come to the park to see certain players, they come to the park to see winning teams?

If that’s the case, and the Mets aren’t going to win anyway, what does it matter if they lose with Jose Reyes and David Wright, or if they lose with no-name AAA callups?

If the Wilpons really aren’t going to sell (and I personally think you’ll have to pry the team out of their cold, dead hands) a fire-sale will (in theory) hasten the team’s return to competitiveness, then Mets fans should embrace it.

by hunterfan on Mar 7, 2011 3:09 PM EST reply actions  

Agreed.

If Reyes leaves via FA it will be hard enough on the fanbase, if Wright get’s traded as well, there might be riots in the streets.

Save Jenrry Mejia!

by Ogre39666 on Mar 7, 2011 7:40 PM EST up reply actions  

The nationals

get the first pick every year. Naturally they have young stars. But they get the first pick because they stink as an organization. I am not worried about them. Joel is great for these science fictions. He is a futurist. He likes to conceive of grand outcomes. The fact is, good teams are usually built incrementally from a decent foundation. I agree. This team is not bad. The field management is not bad. The ownership is bad.

by jdon on Mar 7, 2011 3:24 PM EST reply actions  

"People also won’t pay to see a bunch of scrubs on a last place team."

Not only is this true but people won’t buy Season Tickets, corporations will not buy boxes and send clients and then where will the Wilpons be?

The Wilpons are doomed and the comparison with Qaddafi is spot on, neither potentate knows their time is up and their people don’t love them like they think. I wonder if the Wilpons will massacre Mets fans in the street as they storm Citifield?

Come in Mr. Wilpon, Mr. Qaddafi, your time is up.

by ScottfromPeekskill on Mar 7, 2011 6:35 PM EST reply actions  

Qaddafi has machine guns...what do the Wilpons have?

Oh, maybe the can just go the Mr. Burns route of throwing pennies at people.

There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ

The 2011 Mets- Rock bottom: We haven't reached it yet

by Syler on Mar 7, 2011 7:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Nah

they have to save every penny that they can.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!

by Steve Schreiber on Mar 7, 2011 7:50 PM EST up reply actions  

will never happen

to gut this team would be crazy i am for change but you still have to have a team out there that fans want to see and compete .i believe reyes, k rod are going to be gone as well as beltran, castillo ,perez, santana is damaged goods so he will be around wright you would have to blow me away with a great offer. plus are farm system is lousy and nobody is going to want to see a triple a team out on the field if the wilpons think they are losing mad cash now they will really lose this team if they turn this freak show into the pirates ..

lohaus #54

by lohaus#54 on Mar 7, 2011 7:40 PM EST reply actions  

i thought i smelled poop its just ogre 39666..

lohaus #54

by lohaus#54 on Mar 7, 2011 7:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Hahahaha

an instant classic!

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!

by Steve Schreiber on Mar 7, 2011 7:58 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Just so I have this right

First, you thought of the abstract you. Then you smelled. After smelling, you exclaimed “Poop” because you want me to know that smelling is just.

Correct?

Save Jenrry Mejia!

by Ogre39666 on Mar 7, 2011 8:10 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Do you mean like this?

I thought I smelled…POOP! It’s just, ogre 39666.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!

by Steve Schreiber on Mar 7, 2011 8:18 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

More like

I thought I. [ I ] smelled. Poop: it’s just, Ogre39666.

Save Jenrry Mejia!

by Ogre39666 on Mar 7, 2011 8:29 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

*

I thought [of] I. [ I ] smelled. Poop! [Smelling] is just, Ogre39666.

Save Jenrry Mejia!

by Ogre39666 on Mar 7, 2011 8:38 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

poop there it is ..

lohaus #54

by lohaus#54 on Mar 11, 2011 8:51 PM EST up reply actions  

I rec'd this

So I can unrec it

Squeezed to Song and Bendtner and Song and Nasri oh lovely lovely lovely!
-Peter Drury, the one time his commentating has ever been acceptable.

by Aidan Gibson on Mar 8, 2011 7:15 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

fightoffyourdemons

fightoffyourdemons

Thus Spoke Keith Hernandez

Twitter: ThomasTSKH

"Everything's gonna be awesome." -Ken Oberkfell
"ARSHAVIN IS MAGIC" -Brooks Peck

by Thomas Wachtel on Mar 8, 2011 12:47 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

IMO this is the money line:
Here is the question: Are the Mets closer to being a champion by continuing to try to build around what they have or by starting over

He’s basically giving us a veiled “traide teh core” tirade and passing it off as protecting the Wilpons’ and the team’s future.

Save Jenrry Mejia!

by Ogre39666 on Mar 7, 2011 7:42 PM EST reply actions  

just sell the damn team

by runninrebel61 on Mar 7, 2011 9:01 PM EST reply actions  

70 mill?

the yankee fans are crying that they might not make the playoffs with a 220 mill pay role. lets see them cut to 140 and see how competitive they would be.

"it's not easy being green"-kermit the frog
"we the mets are an improved ball club, now we lose in extra innings"-casy stengal
i cant spell a nosebleed
it's baseball season, and i hate you oliver perez!!!

by rexthejet on Mar 7, 2011 10:27 PM EST reply actions  

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