A Request Of Marty Noble

by James Kannengieser on Apr 13, 2011 6:11 PM EDT

I'm not here to completely pan Marty Noble's latest ode to "grit > talent". But there's one passage of the piece that has me curious:

Two winters ago, after the drudgery of the Mets' 2009 season and more evidence that the team required an infusion of character more than additional talent, one of the Mets' advisors suggested that Wigginton would be an effective antidote for what seemingly ailed the team, that his Wally Backman, "take-no-prisoners" attitude would rub off and perhaps push the team closer to the top of the National League East than would another .300 hitter who bats .226 after the sixth inning.

Emphasis mine. I would like to see evidence that the Mets needed, and presumably still need, more character rather than talent. I'm not saying this evidence definitely does not exist, just that I am unaware of it. Additionally, Noble wrote the following just prior to that 2009-2010 offseason of his discontent:

What the Mets like so much is that Francoeur, as much as any player on their roster since Paul Lo Duca, raises the composite blood pressure, too. He not only cares, he shows that he does and his manner rubs off.

"I think I can bring something here," he said Saturday. "I'm not David Wright or Carlos Beltran, but what I can do is play hard and, I think, have some positive effect on the guys around me."

"If you were to talk intangibles," Jerry Manuel said, "he'd rate way off the charts."

Our old friend Frenchy was around for most of 2010, yet the team struggled, failing to play even .500 baseball. Noble felt that Francoeur's intangibles were terrific but they apparently weren't enough to turn the team into a winner. Francoeur was even compared to Paul Lo Duca, a player specifically cited in today's column as a provider of the The Grit. If an assumption is made that Noble's, and most of his colleagues', assessment of Francoeur's intangibles is spot on, this seems like evidence that talent > grit. Maybe this can be addressed in Noble's next mailbag.

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You could try to address it in Noble's next mailbag

but he’ll probably just make some snide comment, tell you about what baseball was like when he was a kid and then tell you to get off his lawn.

That’s basically the answer to every question in his mailbag.

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by Steve Schreiber on Apr 13, 2011 6:38 PM EDT reply actions

#blamebeltran

by SuperT on Apr 13, 2011 7:09 PM EDT reply actions

Just dont get how you'd want to go with a lesser player

In any circumstance. Boggles my mind. Two similar players, and one has more grission? Fine. But, a. 260 guy instead of like a. 300 guy? Huh?

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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Apr 13, 2011 8:28 PM EDT via mobile reply actions

I don't think he meant grit>talent

as much as “grit” is an important aspect. Obviously talented players win games. But sometimes talented players need their ass kicked to reach the full potential of their talent. Most of the “grit” should come from the manager but sometimes you need to hear your peers telling you to get your shit together. I was a big supporter of Francoeur, not only because he had the attitude that Noble and myself think is important, but because I saw him as a talented player, which I still think he is. It’s quite obvious that, for whatever reason, his talent hasn’t translated into results for the last few years. But when it comes down to it, I would rather have a SLIGHTLY less talented player with the right attitude than someone who’s more concerned with putting up his numbers and collecting his paycheck.

by ZZPops on Apr 13, 2011 8:56 PM EDT reply actions

"for whatever reason"

He has no idea how far away pitches are from himself or the ground when he starts to swing at them

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by Thomas Wachtel on Apr 14, 2011 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions

Blame the dirt

Grit is just another way of saying ‘I saw him get a couple of hits in a dirty uniform over a three game series against my team and when I checked his stats I found out they sucked so he must be gritty and tough and know how to win and get big hits when it matters’.

Then he gets here and you see him every day and he totally sucks and everyone refuses to admit that the dirt one-up’ed them again and instead they blame the manager or the stadium or the talented player who keeps his uniform clean by hitting lots of homeruns and having great range in the outfield .

And all the while, the dirt laughs…knowingly.

by JJJ on Apr 13, 2011 9:01 PM EDT reply actions 9 recs

rec'd

by Shevshevy on Apr 13, 2011 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions

What about grission?

by Jamesir Bensonmum on Apr 13, 2011 9:49 PM EDT reply actions

grit is an intangible quality

It has to do with playing the game the right way and for the right reasons.

Grission just means you’re a white guy not named Adam Dunn.

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by hotspur on Apr 13, 2011 10:43 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

+1

by Pat Andriola on Apr 14, 2011 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions

Evidence

Not that this means a whole lot or is very surprising, but a quick and dirty analysis finds that when you split team performance out by inning (e.g. allowing a regression to give more weight to performance in later innings) you are no better at predicting winning percentage than you are when you look at performance over the whole season.

More specifically, for those who care, the team-level r^2 for a model of W%=a+b1*wOBA +b2*wOBA_allowed is only .0002 lower than the same, but with wOBA and wOBA_allowed split out by inning.

Point being a “.300 hitter who bats .226 after the sixth inning” wouldn’t actually have any negative effect on a team’s winning percentage, relative to a .300 hitter who was exactly the same in the first inning and the last.

by Sethuel on Apr 13, 2011 11:18 PM EDT reply actions

Boom!

Geysered!

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by keithprime on Apr 14, 2011 3:43 AM EDT via mobile reply actions

Pfft. Logic.

That will never catch on.

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by meigs1414 on Apr 14, 2011 9:39 AM EDT reply actions

FYI Noble, thats just regular rhyming

it still tehcnically qualifies as assonance but a better example would be a phrase where the words don’t end int he same sound, ie

“we rock the party rock the body”

“sip criss, get chips, wrist gliss, I floss; stick shift look sick up in that boxsta Porsche”

ok lesson over.

as for the rest of this execrable pablum, i dont even want to get into it. paul lo duca? really?

i still enjoy (most) of noble’s game recaps, it’s his opinion and analysis that is just awful.

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by kendynamo on Apr 14, 2011 12:39 PM EDT reply actions

"Our old friend Frenchy was around for most of 2010, yet the team struggled, failing to play even .500 baseball. "

I couldn’t break it down by games he was/wasn’t in the lineup, but in 2010 the Mets went 65-66 before his trade and 14-17 after. Conclusion: The man was a god. Lawyered.

by Curtis3331 on Apr 17, 2011 3:45 PM EDT reply actions