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What if?: What would the 2011 Mets look like if they kept their prospects?



People are never too keen on trading top prospects (see Scott Kazmir).  But over the past decade, the Mets have traded away an incredible level of talented prospects (or simply let them sign elsewhere).  So let's see what the roster could look like if they all stayed.

Star-divide

The starting 5.  Keep in mind- the Kris Benson, Victor Zambrano, John Maine, Johan Santana, Ollie/Roberto Hernandez and El Duque Trades never happened.

SP- Scott Kazmir

SP- Mike Pelfrey

SP- Jon Niese

SP- Brian Bannister

SP- R.A. Dickey

The Bullpen. The Ben Johnson, Jason Vargas, Guillermo Mota, Ambriorix Burgos, and JJ Putz Trades never happened.  K-Rod signing never happened.

CP- Heath Bell

RHP- Matt Lindstrom

RHP- Phillip Humber (assuming he's moved to bullpen)

RHP- Aaron Heilman

RHP- Henry Owens

RHP- "Captain Fastball" Bobby Parnell

LOOGY- Royce Ring

The Starting Lineup and Bench.  The Jorge Velandia, Carlos Delgado, Luis Castillo, Kris Benson, and Ryan Church trades never happened. Jason Bay signing never happened, but we never traded him to San Diego.

C- Josh Thole

1B- Ike Davis

2B- Marco Scutaro

3B- David Wright

SS- Jose Reyes

LF- Jose Bautista

CF- Carlos Beltran

RF- Nelson Cruz

 

C- Jesus Flores

IF- Daniel Murphy

IF- Ty Wigginton

OF- Jason Bay

OF- Angel Pagan

 

Is this team necessarily better than the one they have now? Discuss.

My 2 cents- Yes, but the bullpen is a little shaky outside of Bell, but it beats what we have now. Also, any time Jason Bay and Angel Pagan are on your bench, odds are you have a good team.

Poll
What would you have done if you were GM from 2000-2011?
Kept all prospects and get the roster above.
23 votes
Done exactly what Phillips, Duquette and Minaya did.
2 votes
Done something in between these two extremes
71 votes
TRAID'D TEH CORE
19 votes

115 votes | Poll has closed

This FanPost was contributed by a member of the community and was not subject to any vetting or approval process. It does not necessarily reflect the opinions, reasoning skills, or attention to grammar and usage rules held by the editors of this site.

Comment 56 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Wait so how come the Beltran signing happened?

And the others didn’t?

Now, kids, being eaten by a crocodile is just like going to sleep; in giant blender.

by meigs1414 on Apr 17, 2011 12:11 PM EDT reply actions  

because they still needed a CF in 2004/5, but they wouldn't have needed a closer in 2008/9

"Anybody with ability can play in the big leagues. But to be able to trick people year in and year out the way I did, I think that was a much greater feat." -Bob Uecker
"Who is the girl in the dugout, with the long hair? What's going on here? You have got to be kidding me. Only player personnel in the dugout. I won't say that women belong in the kitchen, but they don't belong in the dugout." -Kieth Hernandez

by metman726 on Apr 17, 2011 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Okay I'll buy that

But then, you probably end up signing CC or Halladay or Dice-K to get the mystical “ace,” as that money would be earmarked for that position. That assumption is based on the fact that the Twins only had three suitors for Santana, the yanks, mets and red sox.

Hell, you could end up with Santana anyway if the Twins would have let him walk if the other “packages” sucked worse than the one we eventually gave the Twins.

More speculation: Let’s say the Twins spent the money on Santana but now they couldn’t afford Mauer. So, you’d have Mauer becoming a FA in 2012 (I think) with the Mets battling against the Red Sox, Yanks, Phillies and others for his services. And if the Mets get him, Thole becomes the back up to the awesome Mauer and at that point, no one gives a rat’s ass about the pitching.

I traveled far away from the point but this is a good post metsman. Now, back to the reality of a 7 game losing streak. :(

Now, kids, being eaten by a crocodile is just like going to sleep; in giant blender.

by meigs1414 on Apr 17, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

And how did we wind up with Dickey still?

It seems unlikely that we would have signed the same guy under completely different circumstances. And what about other FAs we signed during this time, like Dan Wheeler? And why would we still be hanging on to some of these guys, like Kazmir and Wigginton, when there’s better/cheaper options available? Also, you’re assuming that we still would have made other deals that landed us some of these same players, like Bautista. We didn’t draft him, he was acquired from the Royals for Justin Huber. Besides us, the Royals, Pirates, Rays, and Orioles all gave up on Bautista before he finally put it all together. Take a look at his transaction history from B-Ref:

Dec 2003: Rule V pick by Baltimore from the Pirates
June 3, 2004: Selected off waivers by Tampa
June 28, 2004: Purchased by Royals
July 30, 2004: Traded by the Royals to the Mets for Huber, and then traded to the Pirates for Benson and Jeff Keppinger
August 2008: Traded by the Pirates to Toronto for a PTBNL (Robinson Diaz)

That is not a guy teams were falling over themselves to keep around. It’s like someone here said about Beato recently: if we had signed him, we’d likely have already traded him, or let him go as an FA, or lost him ourselves in the Rule V draft. It’s easy to say now that we should have held on to him, but at the time, he wasn’t the same player.

"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."

by BobbyV_Incognito on Apr 17, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nelson Cruz and Josie B, *sighs* I love watching those players

We will make up for it when we trade Reyes and others, we will get some promising prospects.

by Razors_Edge on Apr 17, 2011 12:22 PM EDT reply actions  

As long as we don't deal them

for the next Royce Ring or Victor Diaz.

And I highly doubt Reyes gets traded. If anything, I think they’ll just take the picks if they’re going to let him go but I still doubt that as well.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!

by Steve Schreiber on Apr 17, 2011 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed, I think Sandy & Co. love the draft too much

to let another team get those picks. No. 1 scenario for me is he signs an extension during the season, but more likely they let him enter free agency, bid on his services up to the point that they are comfortable at and if that isn’t enough they say thanks for the draft pick to the team who signs him.

by Guy Allen Davis on Apr 19, 2011 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

.
I think Sandy & Co. love the draft too much

You do realize the reason we’re in the piss-poor position we are now is because Omar treated the draft like a joke, right?

Save Jenrry Mejia!

by Ogre39666 on Apr 19, 2011 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

You must not have read the rest of that sentence, Ogre.
Agreed, I think Sandy & Co. love the draft too much to let another team get those picks.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!

by Steve Schreiber on Apr 19, 2011 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ah, I missed the "to".

Apologies to Guy Allen Davis.

Save Jenrry Mejia!

by Ogre39666 on Apr 19, 2011 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jose Bautista?

I’m not sure he can really be considered a “Mets prospect.” He was quite literally a member of the organization for five minutes, acquired at trade deadline gunpoint because the Pirates wanted him back (the Orioles had plucked him in the Rule 5 draft the previous offseason) and demanded the Mets find a way to get him from the Royals before Pittsburgh would consent to trading Kris Benson.

by Eric Simon on Apr 17, 2011 12:53 PM EDT reply actions  

ditto Nelson Cruz.

While it’s cool the Mets are stamped on his B-R page as the team that signed him, he never really played in our minor league system.

Kicking knowledge in the face.

by BlackOps on Apr 17, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hmm...

we signed him as an IFA in 1998 but he didn’t actually start playing in the minors until 2001 with Oakland. Where was he in 1999 and 2000? Could he have been in like the DSL or VSL and they just don’t have stats for those leagues?
Correction…according to BBRef apparently he was in the Dominican League but they don’t have stats for him down there.

I’d say it’s a little different than Bautista in that sense…he was Mets property for 2 years, even if he never played in the organization stateside.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!

by Steve Schreiber on Apr 17, 2011 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow, Cruz must've needed a lot of work.

I always knew he was a “raw tools” kind of guy, but he played two seasons in the DSL and then two years after the trade finally managed to make it to A- as a 21 year old to hit a blistering .276/.316/.397. Crazy to think he ended up being AAA’s Babe Ruth for awhile.

Anyway, I’m glad Texas finally gave him his fair shot.

Kicking knowledge in the face.

by BlackOps on Apr 17, 2011 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

guilty as charged

"Anybody with ability can play in the big leagues. But to be able to trick people year in and year out the way I did, I think that was a much greater feat." -Bob Uecker
"Who is the girl in the dugout, with the long hair? What's going on here? You have got to be kidding me. Only player personnel in the dugout. I won't say that women belong in the kitchen, but they don't belong in the dugout." -Kieth Hernandez

by metman726 on Apr 17, 2011 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

There was a series of atricles entitled "Restoring the Rosters" a few years back

that constructed all 30 MLB teams by the players who were originally SIGNED by each MLB team. Like David Ortiz was originally signed by the Mariners, Jose Bautista by the Royals, Johan Santana by the Astros, etc…it put players back with they’re very first, original MLB franchise. Here is the Mets team if they had kept all they’re drafted / international FA signings:

20. Mets

The second third of the rankings kicks off with the Mets, a team with two superstars and a cast of mediocrity. At least they do still have the superstars on their current squad. Most of the other quality players signed by the team were shipped off long before without ever having a chance to make a mark.

Rotation
A.J. Burnett
Scott Kazmir
Brian Bannister
Mike Pelfrey
Jon Niese

Bullpen
Heath Bell
Octavio Dotel
Matt Lindstrom
Bobby Parnell
Aaron Heilman
Guillermo Mota
Joe Smith

Of the 12 pitchers above, Pelfrey has the most wins as a Met, with 26. Heilman is next with 22. No one else is in double figures. Mota, who was originally signed as a position player in 1990, won five games for the team between 2006 and ’07.

The top three starters were traded for Al Leiter, Victor Zambrano and Ambiorix Burgos.

It is a pretty solid pitching staff, though. Obviously, it’d be better if Kazmir still had the same stuff he did a couple of years ago, but Bannister is more than holding his own in the AL and Niese appeared to be on the verge of becoming a possible No. 3 starter before getting hurt earlier this month. The bullpen has some big-time arms, but it is missing a lefty. The best options there are Billy Traber and Lenny DiNardo. Fortunately, Heilman and Mota have usually been pretty good at retiring southpaws.

Lineup
SS Jose Reyes
3B David Wright
RF Nelson Cruz
1B Mike Jacobs
C Jesus Flores
2B Kaz Matsui
CF Carlos Gomez
LF Daniel Murphy

Bench
INF Ty Wigginton
OF Angel Pagan
OF Jay Payton
OF Lastings Milledge
C Raul Casanova

If you want, you can stick one of those lesser hitters in between Reyes and Wright in the order. I wouldn’t. Also, if the team absolutely has to include a true utilityman, it’s going to have to be Double-A shortstop Ruben Tejada. Reyes isn’t going to get any days off either way.

The lineup is definitely OBP challenged apart from Reyes and Wright, but there’s still some nice power in the middle and speed at the end. Wigginton and Payton should start over Jacobs and Murphy against left-handers. If Milledge ever comes around, then Jacobs and Murphy can battle for playing time at first base.

Summary

The Mets’ lack of patience with prospects has been a problem, but as one can plainly see, the team hasn’t produced a whole lot of talent through the years. Part of the problem is that the team has given away first-round picks recently, but even after accounting for that, GM Omar Minaya’s drafts have been disappointing. A recent influx of Latin American talent should help — players like Fernando Martinez, Wilmer Flores, Jenrry Mejia and Tejada could all play key roles in a couple of years — but it remains to be seen whether Minaya will be around to see it happen.

2011 MLB All Star Game FanFest: July 8-12 at the Phoenix Convention Center!

by mtzxc on Apr 17, 2011 1:56 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

And keep in mind this was from 2009 so it doesn't include Ike Davis or Thole or any of the younger, more recent prospects.

BUT it also reminds you that Bay was not originally signed by the Mets, and neither were Scutaro, Batista, or Pagan.

2011 MLB All Star Game FanFest: July 8-12 at the Phoenix Convention Center!

by mtzxc on Apr 17, 2011 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pagan was drafted by the Mets

4th round in 1999.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!

by Steve Schreiber on Apr 17, 2011 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't forget Dan Wheeler

he would’ve been useful in 2006.

by TheKid08 on Apr 17, 2011 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

He was originally drafted and signed by the Rays in the 1996 draft

So again…he doesn’t qualify as an original Met’s prospect.

2011 MLB All Star Game FanFest: July 8-12 at the Phoenix Convention Center!

by mtzxc on Apr 18, 2011 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

in other words

people become good when they leave the mets. examples: scott kazmir, a.j burnett, nelson cruz, mike jacobs, heath bell, jermey burnitz, jeff kent,, jason isringhausen, melvin mora, marco scutaro, kevin mitchel, nolan ryan, amos otis, greg jeffries exc…

"it's not easy being green"-kermit the frog
"we the mets are an improved ball club, now we lose in extra innings"-casy stengal
i cant spell a nosebleed
he's gone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!OLIE PEREZ IS GONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by rexthejet on Apr 17, 2011 2:09 PM EDT reply actions  

Mike Jacobs?

"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Apr 17, 2011 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah that was pushing it i guess

"it's not easy being green"-kermit the frog
"we the mets are an improved ball club, now we lose in extra innings"-casy stengal
i cant spell a nosebleed
he's gone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!OLIE PEREZ IS GONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by rexthejet on Apr 17, 2011 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

and they become worse when signing with the mets,

Jason Bay, George Foster, Francisco Rodriguez, etc.

Yogi on the 1969 NY Mets....." overwhelming underdogs "

by SuperSantana on Apr 17, 2011 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

there is a looooong list of players in that situation

"it's not easy being green"-kermit the frog
"we the mets are an improved ball club, now we lose in extra innings"-casy stengal
i cant spell a nosebleed
he's gone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!OLIE PEREZ IS GONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by rexthejet on Apr 17, 2011 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

On the other hand...

I don’t see anyone on that list that’s as good as David Cone was with the Mets (except Ryan, the trump card). Also Sid Fernandez, Ron Darling, Howard Johnson, John Maine, Rick Reed all came here and became all stars.

I could also make arguments that Leiter, Beltran and probably some others had their best years in otherwise very good careers as Mets.

What has KRod done wrong as a Met? I don’t think he’s really done much worse than could have been reasonably expected.

The guy that stunk up the place the worst was Bobby Bonilla. Carlos Baerga anyone?

by Marquus on Apr 24, 2011 4:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

well, k-rod is not bad for what he is,

but he was a record setting closer, now, not so much

Yogi on the 1969 NY Mets....." overwhelming underdogs "

by SuperSantana on Apr 24, 2011 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Eww.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Apr 17, 2011 5:44 PM EDT reply actions  

R A Dickey was never a prospect

A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.

by fxcarden on Apr 17, 2011 6:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Not of ours,

but he was one of the Rangers’. A top prospect, too- First Round, 18th pick.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Apr 17, 2011 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can't just leave

 the one true God off the roster for fear of excommunication from the church of dickey

"Anybody with ability can play in the big leagues. But to be able to trick people year in and year out the way I did, I think that was a much greater feat." -Bob Uecker
"Who is the girl in the dugout, with the long hair? What's going on here? You have got to be kidding me. Only player personnel in the dugout. I won't say that women belong in the kitchen, but they don't belong in the dugout." -Kieth Hernandez

by metman726 on Apr 17, 2011 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

wise choice,

heretics are usually tortured and punished by the stake.

Yogi on the 1969 NY Mets....." overwhelming underdogs "

by SuperSantana on Apr 24, 2011 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

To be perfectly honest,

I never knew the Mets had Nelson Cruz. It’s a shame they let him go. Was he a highly regarded prospect when they traded him or was he not expected to be so good?

by letsgomets31 on Apr 17, 2011 6:29 PM EDT reply actions  

he wasn't a great prospect at the time but,

they got Jorge Velancia in exchange for him

"Anybody with ability can play in the big leagues. But to be able to trick people year in and year out the way I did, I think that was a much greater feat." -Bob Uecker
"Who is the girl in the dugout, with the long hair? What's going on here? You have got to be kidding me. Only player personnel in the dugout. I won't say that women belong in the kitchen, but they don't belong in the dugout." -Kieth Hernandez

by metman726 on Apr 17, 2011 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't call Jorge Velandia much of a haul for anyone.

Velandia wasn’t much of a player. The best thing you could say about his Mets career is probably that it was short.

"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."

by BobbyV_Incognito on Apr 17, 2011 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

The one thing that I could tell you about Jorge Velandia's Mets tenure is that

of all the players on those teams, he was certainly one of them.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!

by Steve Schreiber on Apr 17, 2011 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

wow, that blew my mind

"it's not easy being green"-kermit the frog
"we the mets are an improved ball club, now we lose in extra innings"-casy stengal
i cant spell a nosebleed
he's gone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!OLIE PEREZ IS GONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by rexthejet on Apr 17, 2011 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ralph Kiner probably told mischtermet that.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Apr 17, 2011 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually

it was Tim McCarver. It was the most in-depth analysis he’s given in 15 years.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!

by Steve Schreiber on Apr 18, 2011 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

This team is actually worse

When you take into account the fact that one cannot reasonably have expected even a competent GM Cruz and Bautista prospects during their brief tenures with the Mets. Furthermore in Bautistas Case he probably would have been rule 5’d from us at some point anyway.

by RADickeyinabox on Apr 18, 2011 7:30 PM EDT reply actions  

So we should keep hitting prospects and trade pitching prospects?

Gas prices today are a lot like a pitcher's ERA. Anything under 3 is amazing, under 4 is pretty good and anything 5 and up is something you want to avoid.

by Bobby Baseball on Apr 19, 2011 8:43 AM EDT reply actions  

just to add, the Mets wouldn't sign Luis Slappy Castillo if Macro Scutaro played as well as he has

and, let’s not forget to add Jason Bay-pre Pirates.

"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"

by feslenraster on Apr 19, 2011 5:52 PM EDT reply actions  

Yes, if only Macro Scutaro had come up bigger for us

"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."

by BobbyV_Incognito on Apr 19, 2011 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

.

Thus Spoke Keith Hernandez

Twitter: ThomasTSKH

"Everything's gonna be awesome." -Ken Oberkfell
"ARSHAVIN IS MAGIC" -Brooks Peck

by Thomas Wachtel on Apr 23, 2011 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

The lesson I take away from this

is that sometimes it’s a good idea to trade prospects and sometimes it’s not, but it’s never a good idea to trade Scott Kazmir for Victor Zambrano

2009 Did Not Happen

by cjmulrain on Apr 22, 2011 12:30 AM EDT reply actions  

Pretty much

Scott Kazmir = 2006 Champtions, 2007 NL East title, 2008 NL Wild Card title…

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Apr 22, 2011 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Is that a guess, or does the WAR difference line up?

I’m curious, but too lazy to look.

Thus Spoke Keith Hernandez

Twitter: ThomasTSKH

"Everything's gonna be awesome." -Ken Oberkfell
"ARSHAVIN IS MAGIC" -Brooks Peck

by Thomas Wachtel on Apr 23, 2011 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't need the stats

A playoff rotation featuring Kazmir would have given us Glavine, Kazmir, Maine, Traschel (and Perez, in theory, if need be). Our weakest link would have been eliminated (or, rather, augmented and bolstered), resulting in a likely boost over the slight hump that prevented us from getting to the World Series.

In 2007 and 2008, we needed a singular win to qualify for playoff baseball both years. Kazmir’s 2007 and 2008 performance, in lieu of, say, the random assortment of scrubs that were thrown out there, such as Alay Soler, or Dave Williams, or Brandon Knight, any of the other guys detailed in that FanPost I wrote a few months back, would have netted us, at the very least, a singular more win.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Apr 23, 2011 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Peterson saw Kazmir's injuries coming...

But Zambrano? Maybe they thought it was Carlos and got confused.

by Marquus on Apr 24, 2011 4:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

How about Mike Adams?

Probably the best set up man in the game over the last 3 years.

by David G on May 3, 2011 5:15 PM EDT reply actions  

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Img_1262_small Matthew Artus

Kanye_pekka_small Sam Page

Best_infield_ever_small James Kannengieser

Metsstitches_small Eno Sarris

48900_1085732804_4466_n_small Chris McShane

Lg_rocker_ap_small Matthew Callan

Billy_and_daddy_4th_of_july_small Bill Petti

THE NEWS GURUS

Mrmet_small Steve Schreiber

3_small Stephen Schmidt

159714144_040c6c1501_small Pack Bringley

124967042_crop_340x234_small Jeffrey Paternostro