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Around SBN: Full Coverage of 2012 Coke 600

Its the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine

The 2011 Mets don't seem like a very good team. It pains me to say it. I try to be very optimistic and I'm far from being in an "all hope is lost" mindset. Jason Bay and Ronny Paulino are on their way to solidify the lineup, but pitching is the obvious problem. Pelfrey is done. I see Sandy Alderson unloading him in a trade VERY soon, before he ends up another John Maine. There is still too much of the old Mets lingering around and leaving a bad taste in the Mets metaphorical mouth.

I think Alderson and Co. made a strong effort to make the 2011 Mets as competitive as they could, with the resources provided to them. Obviously, no one was in a "win now" mindset before the season- Alderson's contract is not comparable to Jason Bay's- he wasn't signed as another ill-fated attempt at fixing things by adding another expensive piece. Alderson is here to make the Mets a team again. They have become a disillusioned, disorganized mess. Its painful to see after what went on in 2006. From 2007-Present, that 2006 team has declined, disbanded and been covered in band-aids (aka bad contracts).

Alderson is going to clean house this Summer. This is just my opinion, based on the very short period of time that he has run the team and I've observed him, but I see the following moves going down this Summer...

Pelfrey is gone. Don't ask me for what in return, but I'm pretty damn sure Alderson see's no reason to keep him around. He is too mentally effected by the past few seasons to pitch well in New York anymore. Pelfrey needs a fresh start somewhere else.

KRod is a tougher sell, but I think Alderson would convince ownership to eat a very large portion of his 2011 salary, to move him in a trade long before his option has a chance of vesting. I don't think it will be an EASY trade to make, but I think Sandy probably see's this as something he would certainly like to try to accomplish.

The only people in the Rotation/Bullpen that I see being here after 2011 are  Johan, Beato, Buchholz, Dickey, Gee, Niese and maybe Parnell, but I could see them unloading Parnell as well.

Emaus's days are numbered. He won't be around for much longer. I'm sure the Mets would be happy to keep him in their minor league system, but they probably won't have much trouble giving him back to Toronto. I understand why they picked up Hu, because Emaus and Murphy were big risks-- defensively, but he seems meaningless after this season. I have a strong feeling Murphy will be our starting second basemen for much of the 2011 season. He will probably be given a lot of opportunity to win that job, for the long term, during the 2011 season. Barring a big trade that brings in a "superstar" caliber player, I see no real reason to bring in another second basemen via trade this year, assuming contending remains a pipe dream. The job will end up being Murphy's job to lose... or win, long term.

Reyes is getting a contract extension and I bet my weight in gold it ends up being more "team friendly" than most people expect him to sign for. David Wright will die a Met. (footnote: David Wright will also die striking out.)

It's going to be very sad to see him go, but Beltran will probably be traded to the American League this summer. Matthew Cerone often says that he thinks Carlos is underrated by Mets fans-- and I agree. He may have missed a lot of time due to injury over the past few years, but thats the price you pay when you sign a long term contract- a long term contract to a player that you build a team around. (See: 2006 Mets)

Forget Nick Evans, Who is Scott Hairston? Please go away, sir. I like Willie Harris, but he is no long term solution- not even as a 4th outfielder. Bay stays, obviously. Pagan probably stays. I think his season will turn around once the front office tells Terry Collins to stop playing musical chairs with Pagan's spot in the batting order. He hits 2nd, not 5th or 6th. C'mon, Terry. Why not just move Reyes to the 3rd spot again? Anyway, Pagan probably stays.

At this point, if I haven't mentioned you, sorry, you probably don't matter to the future of the Mets. Ah, except of course for Ike Davis. What will happen to Ike? He seems like a "moneyball" player, but lets keep in mind, this isn't the Oakland A's, this is the New York Mets. The payroll may drop, but its not going anywhere under $100 million anytime soon. I repeat, this is New York! Ike is a great, young, cheap and powerful player. He has potential to be an RBI machine and shows power, even in the enormous Citi Field. Sounds like he might actually be a good fit FOR Oakland. And they do have all of that wonderful pitching. And Sandy's old friend, Billy Beane. Hmm. I just don't know. This is the toughest call. Does Sandy keep Ike for the future or send him packing?

So what does everyone think? What potential trades/extensions does everyone see going down this summer? 

You can also check out my bands cover of the song, which inspired this fanpost.

This FanPost was contributed by a member of the community and was not subject to any vetting or approval process. It does not necessarily reflect the opinions, reasoning skills, or attention to grammar and usage rules held by the editors of this site.

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Pelfrey

is not a mediocre pitcher. I don’t usually have the time to read everyone else’s posts, but I’m pretty sure I would disagree with anyone arguing that point. Put him in a place like San Diego and I’d bet he performed much more consistently.

"You're boring. You probably don’t even drink beer while you watch baseball."

by WinstonSmith on Apr 19, 2011 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

On what do you base

“Pelfrey is not a mediocre pitcher”.

Just curious.

A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.

by fxcarden on Apr 19, 2011 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

Pelfrey

obviously drinks beer when he watches baseball.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!

by Steve Schreiber on Apr 19, 2011 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

He doesn't! That's the problem.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Apr 19, 2011 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

on the base that

mediocre athletes don’t play major league sports

"You're boring. You probably don’t even drink beer while you watch baseball."

by WinstonSmith on Apr 19, 2011 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Umm really?

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!

by Steve Schreiber on Apr 19, 2011 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

really. have you ever heard of the minor leagues?

thats where mediocre players spend their careers. Pelf has a good skill set, he cannot, however, seem to handle the pressure of New York. Put him in a small market and he would probably be much more consistent.

"You're boring. You probably don’t even drink beer while you watch baseball."

by WinstonSmith on Apr 19, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

So how come his numbers are

better playing in New York than playing on the road?

And also, there are plenty of bad pitchers in the majors. Ever heard of Mark Hendrickson? How about Kip Wells? Daniel Cabrera? our very own Oliver Perez? I could name you two dozen bad pitchers that we’ve had on our own roster the past 4 years.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!

by Steve Schreiber on Apr 19, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

In support of your point,

i have actually not heard of those pitchers, aside from perez.

Yogi on the 1969 NY Mets....." overwhelming underdogs "

by SuperSantana on Apr 19, 2011 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Stop with the facts, mm.

Btw, Winston, when you make an argument wouldn’t it make sense if THE single most germane stat (Pelf’s home road splits) didn’t utterly contradict your assertion regarding his abiity to pitch in New York? I hope you don’t get defensive, but when you realize that, doesn’t it make it impossible to continue to assert that Pelfrey can’t pitch in the Big City?

So, why are you so keen on Alderson trading the Mets most durable pitcher, a perfectly serviceable, inexpensive, middle of the rotation starter? The day after they get rid of him aren’t the Mets going to have to go out and get a guy who does what Pelfrey does? A big part of the Mets problem is that they don’t have enough decent pitchers. Why would you want to trade from a position of weakness?

Also, facts:

“KRod is a tougher sell, but I think Alderson would convince ownership to eat a very large portion of his 2011 salary, to move him in a trade long before his option has a chance of vesting.”

The Mets are going to be responsible for the vest whether they trade Rod or not.

by Brian Singer on Apr 20, 2011 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well not necessarily:
The Mets are going to be responsible for the vest whether they trade Rod or not.

If the Mets somehow manage to deal K-Rod, the vest becomes the other team’s responsibility (unless you’re saying that the only way to deal him is to send a lot of money to the other team, which in that case makes less sense for the Mets).

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!

by Steve Schreiber on Apr 20, 2011 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

That wouldn't make any sense actually

since the Mets can save all that money by just shelving him (unless the argument is that K-Rod has reached the dreaded Perez Trench, where just having him occupy roster space is an unacceptable cost, and I don’t think K-Rod is anywhere near that).

by Kepler on Apr 22, 2011 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like that term, 'Perez Trench'.

"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."

by BobbyV_Incognito on Apr 22, 2011 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

If they just stop using him all together

then the MLBPA would have a slam dunk case.

Save Jenrry Mejia!

by Ogre39666 on Apr 22, 2011 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

And yes

I’ll stop spouting facts.

They're just too reliable and factual.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!

by Steve Schreiber on Apr 20, 2011 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

Dude, relative to the league he's in (yes, that's the MLB) he's mediocre.

He’s better than 95% of the population, but that’s not what we’re talking about. He’s nothing special compared to other pitchers on major league rosters. It’s like when we say a player is cheap. He’s still making $500M plus. That’s a lot of money, but compared to others in the league, it’s pennies.

Save Jenrry Mejia!

by Ogre39666 on Apr 19, 2011 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

You mean $500K plus

$500M plus would be a ton of money.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!

by Steve Schreiber on Apr 19, 2011 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

haha..

youre absolutely right, there are lots of crap players, I just can’t liken Pelfrey to players like Perez and the others I guess. However, road games are still games played for New York, with the scrutiny of New York media and the past few years history bearing down on him. I concede my no mediocre players, I just don’t think he is one. Anyway, like I said in my original post. Sandy will want to ditch him before he becomes John Maine II.

"You're boring. You probably don’t even drink beer while you watch baseball."

by WinstonSmith on Apr 19, 2011 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Right

When someone calls a professional athlete mediocre I think it’s usually safe to assume that they mean relative to the league and not the population on the whole

by MatthewM11 on Apr 20, 2011 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

OK

thanks for clearing that up.

A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.

by fxcarden on Apr 20, 2011 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

I just opened a dictionary and looked up "mediocre"

There was a picture of Pelfrey.

__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden

by Russ on Apr 19, 2011 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

My dictionary must be out of date.

It has a picture of Steve Trachsel*.

(*Disclaimer: I actually love Steve Trachsel, but few readers would get a Nino Espinosa reference.)

by Kepler on Apr 22, 2011 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Follow-up:

there’s a blog for everything. Carmen Fanzone — holy shit! :)

by Kepler on Apr 22, 2011 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pelfrey should be the second or third man in a decent rotation

The fourth man in a good one
And forget about the Filthies rotation.
Only in a rotation as fucked up as ours is he the number one guy

I believe in Dillon Gee!
Logic Your Sense Makes None.

by JoeBighead on Apr 19, 2011 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

exactly

Pelfrey could be a solid 3 or 4 somewhere else, where he has potential to succeed in the CORRECT slot… not labeled as an “ace” in New York

"You're boring. You probably don’t even drink beer while you watch baseball."

by WinstonSmith on Apr 19, 2011 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

a 3 or 4 guy is a mediocre starter

I believe in Dillon Gee!
Logic Your Sense Makes None.

by JoeBighead on Apr 19, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

You do realize that no one--not even Pelfrey's mom--thinks of him as an "ace", right?

Seriously—why are you so hell bent on getting rid of the a cheap, middle of the rotation starter, something the Mets could use two or three more of, and something that at least twenty five other teams are looking for?

Pelfrey is the least of the Mets problems.

by Brian Singer on Apr 20, 2011 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

actually, i think i would take pelf over blanton.

Yogi on the 1969 NY Mets....." overwhelming underdogs "

by SuperSantana on Apr 19, 2011 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Contracts factored in, it's no contest.

Pelfrey >>> Blanton

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Apr 19, 2011 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Here we go again.

Pelfrey’s not a mediocre pitcher?

Take a look at his piss poor K/9 rate (it’s 5.1 for his career) and his groundball rate (it’s around 47% for his career….real grounball pitchers like Derek Lowe and Brandon Webb in his heyday get over 60% of balls on the ground).

Pelfrey allows too much contact, leading to too many chances for luck and for hits for fall in. He’s also highly helped by playing in New York, spending half his starts in Citi and Shea. He’d be below average to poor in just about any other ballpark.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!

by Steve Schreiber on Apr 19, 2011 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

rec'd for pic

Don’t Let Francisco Rodgriguez’s 2012 Option Vest! Under no circumstances should that option, valued at $17.5 million, be allowed to vest. -Eric Seidman, Fangraphs

by hotspur on Apr 19, 2011 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

.


But seriously, if we trade Ike, who is playing 1B? Duda? Duda is more of a "Moneyball’ type player than Ike (this is of course ignoring that “Moneyball players” are simply just good players). Let’s send him to Oak in a package for some pitching (and after the big three – Cahill, Anderson, and Gio – who aren’t going anywhere, who else do they have?).

I have no problem moving Pelf but it has nothing to do with how “mentally effected” he is. He’s a #3 pitcher who derives his value form giving you innings while not making a ton of money. Once his salary starts to go up (and it will), his value starts to decline.

Trade Krod? Fine, but we’re not in the position where he absolutely must go. If a team want’s him, trade him, but his vest should not be reached so there’s no need for desperate moves involving money going along with him.

As far as the bullpen, besides Beato, Buchholz, Parnell, and Carrasco, who else did we think would be sticking around anyway? With guys like Alvarez, De La Torre, Merritt, O’Conner, and probably Stinson and Armando Rodriguez, we should have fine in-house candidates on the way.

Save Jenrry Mejia!

by Ogre39666 on Apr 19, 2011 4:26 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Damn you.

I was gonna post the evil post.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Apr 19, 2011 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

I never claimed

to know who we would get in return for any of these moves or who would replace these guys if they were moved. My point was, as I said, Alderson is going to clean house this summer and very few people are safe. If we traded Ike, I would assume we would probably be strong in the Prince or Pujlous market. Also, you’re right, we aren’t in a position where Krod “must go”, but why would Sandy want him here any longer? To have his giant, horrible contract vest? Or to keep stories about him punching in-laws in the face floating in the news? Orrrr? Oh, right, there is no reason at all for a losing team to have one of the best closers in baseball when they so desperately need so many other pieces.

So rather than be a hyper-critical of my opinions, maybe just answer my question of "What potential trades/extensions does everyone see going down this summer? "

"You're boring. You probably don’t even drink beer while you watch baseball."

by WinstonSmith on Apr 19, 2011 10:21 AM EDT reply actions  

You can package K-ROd to some team who needs a really good setup man

and can afford his salary for the rest of the season. That way the team wouldn’t have to worry about his option vesting, and they’ll get a great bullpen piece.

I don’t disagree with your plan, but i think any future solution with this team is going to involve keeping our young, home grown players. Ike, Wright, Reyes, Thole, Murph….Whatever OF prospects we have…I’d rather save money by keeping our cheap young players and then go out and buy some big name free agents to fill in the holes.

And if we could ever, every unload Jason Bay….Do it.

"I only wanted a few things out of life -- a wife, children, to play baseball and to hunt deer." - Turk Wendell

by Rey-O on Apr 19, 2011 11:04 AM EDT reply actions  

Two Words: Vernon Wells

I believe in Dillon Gee!
Logic Your Sense Makes None.

by JoeBighead on Apr 19, 2011 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Too bad the Angels are

overstocked with expensive, overrated OFers.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!

by Steve Schreiber on Apr 19, 2011 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

Jason Bay

While I tend to agree that if we ever could unload Bay that we should, I don’t think thats something Sandy would do- My post was an attempt to predict Sandy’s actions… That trade probably won’t be explored until his walk year and definitely wouldn’t be considered now when they would obviously be selling WAY low on him.

"You're boring. You probably don’t even drink beer while you watch baseball."

by WinstonSmith on Apr 19, 2011 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why wouldn't Alderson unload a huge contract to a ~3 WAR player?

It’s not selling low if you can get ride of that contract.

Save Jenrry Mejia!

by Ogre39666 on Apr 19, 2011 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

because

it was only one season.. a season in which he suffered a year ending concussion. And how much of the contract would Sandy realistically be able to unload? Plus, before the season he made comments about wanting to keep certain core players around and Bay was one of the names he mentioned.

"You're boring. You probably don’t even drink beer while you watch baseball."

by WinstonSmith on Apr 19, 2011 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

You weren't talking about how much of the contract he would be able to unload (and who knows how much we would be able to rid ourselves of anyway)

You said that getting rid of Bay would not be something Alderson would do. Alderson was making fun of the Werth contract. If he feels that way about that deal, he can’t like Bay’s contract too much either.
You then called getting rid of Bay selling low. If a team is willing to take that contract, it’s not selling low.

Save Jenrry Mejia!

by Ogre39666 on Apr 19, 2011 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Grammar & Usage Squad Says:

“See’s the day.”

"Dickey is my starter. I shall not want." - Dickey [43:1]

by CTRefJay on Apr 19, 2011 1:24 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

pelfrey

will probably need the same treatment that cured steve traschel. Several starts in Buffalo. No way you trade him now. The same goes for Pagan, If he continues to slump.

by bob c on Apr 19, 2011 1:25 PM EDT reply actions  

Have you read any of the,

oh, four or five FanPosts about Mike Pelfrey?

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Apr 19, 2011 1:30 PM EDT reply actions  

No

I don’t normally have time to get to every post, sorry. I had some free time this week and have been meaning to post my thoughts.

"You're boring. You probably don’t even drink beer while you watch baseball."

by WinstonSmith on Apr 19, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

zing

"I only wanted a few things out of life -- a wife, children, to play baseball and to hunt deer." - Turk Wendell

by Rey-O on Apr 19, 2011 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd recommend reading them

and augmenting your thoughts.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Apr 19, 2011 4:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Oh Winston how I have missed thee

"Intelligence is not a genetic predisposition. Think stupid!!"

by Wright of passage on Apr 21, 2011 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

Emaus

ahhh Brad the Emu has been DFA’d

"You're boring. You probably don’t even drink beer while you watch baseball."

by WinstonSmith on Apr 19, 2011 1:38 PM EDT reply actions  

Collins

is starting to make Jerry M look pretty good/ What’s with the love affair with emaus and hairston They both suck. I would rather watch evans and turner

by bob c on Apr 19, 2011 1:55 PM EDT reply actions  

your wish is seemingly collins command

"I only wanted a few things out of life -- a wife, children, to play baseball and to hunt deer." - Turk Wendell

by Rey-O on Apr 19, 2011 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

"Collins is starting to make Jerry M look pretty good"

That’s a fallacy. The only possible way for Jerry Manuel to look good is by standing next to a clone of Jerry Manuel.

There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ

The 2011 Mets- Rock bottom: We haven't reached it yet

by Syler on Apr 19, 2011 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

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