Fred From Flushing, You're On WFAN!
by James Kannengieser on May 23, 2011 11:41 AM EDT
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PrintI used to defend Fred Wilpon. For years, the Mets have had one of the highest payrolls in the league, befitting a New York team with its own television network. A beautiful new stadium was built under his watch. But in the wake of Wilpon-the-elder's sports talk radio-esque comments in The New Yorker, those days are over. Fred Wilpon is a disgrace.
Lousy organizations tend to blame their best players when things aren't going well. This concept was discussed last season when David Wright was struggling early in the season. And the Mets, despite the front office turnover, are still a lousy organization. Omar Minaya tells us that Wright and Jose Reyes don't have an "edge"; Fred Wilpon says Wright is no superstar, Reyes is injury prone, Carlos Beltran is a shell of his former self and the Mets are a "sh*tty team". It's erroneous whether or not he's right in his assessments (he might be). No amount of contrarian rationalization can mask the fact that Wilpon publicly put down his three best players for seemingly no reason. Maybe it's part of his new free agent sales pitch -- "Sign with the Mets and get dissed by your owner!"
Imagine if Wright, Reyes or Beltran said "Fred Wilpon -- nice guy. Shitty owner, nice guy." Imagine that sh*tstorm? You cant imagine it because it wouldn't happen. The three players have said all the right things to the media during their time with the Mets. And continue to do so even after this latest bit of nonsense. Here's Wright in an e-mail to Brian Costa of the Wall Street Journal:
David Wright e-mailed me in response to Wilpon's comments: "Fred is a good man and is obviously going through some difficult times."
And a follow-up:
Wright added, "There is nothing more productive that I can say at this time."
You stay classy, David Wright. And I won't blame you if you seek employment with another team when your contract is up.
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James you said all there is to be said
Fred Wilpon has destroyed this franchise. And he won’t stop untill somebody (Selig?, Picard?) stops him.
This whole thing is gonna ruin my week in watching baseball
In this situation, I feel worst for ME because I just want to be entertained. No football free agency. A struggling baseball team. And now this will dominate my baseball watching experience. I may just watch Pawn Stars, Swamp People and The Deadliest Catch this week.
So Let It Be Written, So Let it Be Done.
I've always dislike Fred
He has owned the team for 30+ years, and has hired two good managers, and until a few months ago one good Gm. He got attached to dopes like Omar, and Phillips and kept them around way too long. Omar getting a contract extenstion late in the ‘08 season is one of the biggest head scratchers ever. The team was falling apart again, because Omar did’t fix the pen, and had a flawed roster and was rewarded for it.
Didn't he get like a 4 year extension, too?
That’s the most puzzling part. Why not do what most smart organizations do…if you have any doubt, if there’s anything for the guy to prove, give him a one year extension. Obviously the Wilpons had no doubts…they were that foolish and that blind to think that Omar had done an excellent job, despite his team falling short 2 straight seasons because they were both ill-conceived in a lot of ways.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
by Steve Schreiber on May 23, 2011 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
It was worse
Omar had a year left on his contract anyway and the Wilpon just gave him a 3 year extension on top of it. They could’ve just done nothing and waited out his original contract, but apparently couldn’t stop themselves.
"I only wanted a few things out of life -- a wife, children, to play baseball and to hunt deer." - Turk Wendell
That's right.
Now I remember. Before the extension even kicked in, 2009 happened and everybody was clamoring for Omar to get fired. Ugh…stupid stupid stupid.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
by Steve Schreiber on May 23, 2011 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I couldn't believe how angry his comments made me.
I didn’t think an owner could bother me that much with a few words. What bothers me most is that he can just insult his own players so easily. I just don’t understand why you would do that. I thought some people in this world had class, Fred is doing his best to prove otherwise.
Darrelle Revis once won a game of Connect Four in three moves.
by bm01bath on May 23, 2011 12:01 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
ive never been so pissed at fred wilpon
as much as i love jose/david and the crew they should leave and get what they deserve unless ownership is changed, this is outrageous
Unbelievable...
So much could be said, but I rather not waste my effort and time on the Wilpons and what they have done to this organization over the past 5 years.
Every time you think the organization sinks to a new low, they find a way to go lower.
Irrational Mets fan known for memorable ranting and raving, when things inevitably go wrong.
Ego Maniac who has destroyed his sacred trust
Wilpon has shown he only cares about his own self image and that people view him as a good man. Well, as the owner of a ML team in this market, with this history, you have an obligation to run the team for the benefit of the loyal fans , who are not billionaires, and who live within a mistake or bad luck from real hardship, for whom the daily and seasonal fates affect our own life. Owning a baseball team is not the same as owning a semi-conductor factory. By making these stupid comments, Wilpon has assured us that so long as he is owner, we will lose Reyes (who will now go out to prove he can get Crawford money), lose Wright (who knows that as a Met he will be fated to have an Ernie banks career at best I.e. Regrets he never won a WS) and can never sign an attractive free agent. Wilpon has thus assured the fans that this team will never win and if he doesent sell we all know it is because his and his lucky sperm club son have their entire identity tied up in this club. It is time to sell and get a life Fred. You do not have the right to throw the team under the bus. It is not your team alone.
by Seaver73 on May 23, 2011 12:11 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Who had "Fred Slams Stars, Team" in the next Mets spectacular PR implosion pool?
I think I had Minnesota Vikings sex boat.
by Jamesir Bensonmum on May 23, 2011 12:14 PM EDT reply actions
Crap. I had K-Rod has relapse of last year’s hallway debacle.
In Lou We Trust!! (but that doesn't mean we don't wonder sometimes...)
I had a Pat Misch/ Ronny Paulino wife swap
by tmu on May 23, 2011 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
my money was on Ray Ramirez ebola release
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on May 23, 2011 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
amen, James
And I won’t blame you if you seek employment with another team when your contract is up.
Why the hell would anyone want to play for this team as long as Wilpon owns it? Maybe Beltran, Reyes, and Wright will all go to Tampa Bay (yes, yes, Longoria, but allow me to indulge in this fantasy), win the AL East from the Yankees, and then beat Philadelphia in the World Series. That would be the best flip of the bird to Wilpon one could ask for.
Mark Cuban for owner! Save us from the Wilpons!
by Greenpoint Ian on May 23, 2011 12:21 PM EDT reply actions
I guess if the money's good...
after all the IRA plan is all paid up to Saberhagen and Bonilla, right?
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
by feslenraster on May 23, 2011 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions
i wish Wright/Reyes would say something like that
they have all of the power because no one likes Wilpon and every other team wants them. Plus, if they said that, Mets fans would love those guys even more and hate Wilpon even more. Fuck the minority sale Fred, just give up the team already you douchelord!
I LIKE IKE!
at least there's smething good to look forward to
metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?
I'm starting to look forward to Beltran, Reyes and Wright
all winning on other teams and playing well (as long as its not an NL east team). I’ll always root for them no matter where they play. The Wilpons don’t deserve to have them, and those 3 players deserve much better for how they’ve performed and what they’ve accomplished in their time with the Mets.
...my hope...
After Wilpon’s boneheaded and irresponsible comments, I have to say that I hope the team is ultimately sold, in its entirety.
I’ve been a fan since the ‘69 team won World Series. I grew up watching this team. I never thought I’d say this, but Wilpon may actually be worse than M. (for Miser) Donald Grant. This might be my breaking point.
Wright’s response shows where the class in this disorganization rests.
in his defense
he did say he didnt want a bunt for thole in the 9th inning with reyes on first. that play where thole bunted out and reyes was thrown out at first. he thought a steal was the play.. so there is that.
I also dont think he has said anything to damning. I mean, he shouldnt have said it… and it seems more like he was watching the game and got to comfortable with a reporter…
how many times have we all said negative things about these guys. Is write a superstar in the same way that Albert is? or ARod was in his prime? He is right there but he is not an obvious 1st ballot HOF. Is Reyes, with his injury history, going to get the same contract Crawford did?
no, he should not have publicly said that stuff… but its not like he said anything we didnt already know.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
Except he is the owner..
and in what universe should the owner be publicly shitting on his own product.
It’s fucking stupid.
Irrational Mets fan known for memorable ranting and raving, when things inevitably go wrong.
by TKFJ on May 23, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
This.
You could say all you want “how many times have we all said negative things about these guys” but the most important part here is that Wilpon is not just a fan…he’s the owner of the team. He HAS TO, whether it’s fair or unfair, monitor everything he says because the team’s owner can’t just go spouting off nonsense about his best assets, considering that other teams would bend over backwards to take them away from us for nothing. No matter how you spin it, it’s absolute stupidity. There’s no other word for it then that.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
by Steve Schreiber on May 23, 2011 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yep
I’ve had about enough of the “we’ve all said negative things about the team, what’s the big deal?” defense.
by James Kannengieser on May 23, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Come on
We’ve all told our star players that they’re not worth what we’re paying them and can’t stay healthy enough to do their jobs; that we were duped into signing them because we’re idiots who didn’t really realize that they wouldn’t be very good. We’ve all publicly called out the baseball players we employ by comparing them to a large mass of intestinal flora. Who among us doesn’t own a baseball team and then piss all over over it to a reporter feverishly jotting down everything we say?
Truly, we can all identify.
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on May 23, 2011 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions
This.
In what business is it good sense to publicly insult your employees? Especially when you’re trying to shop at least one of them to your competitors?
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on May 23, 2011 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions
you realize
you are defending Fred Wilpon
I LIKE IKE!
I am defending rationality
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
It's rational for the owner of a team to
bash his best assets and the team that he is solely in charge of?
Not in the world where I live.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
by Steve Schreiber on May 23, 2011 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
especially when we'd really like to re-sign one of those assets next year
plus throwing stars under the bus isn’t a great way to get new free agent players to come to NY
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on May 23, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
im sorry
but if this comment is what tips jose away from the mets… that is just laughable.
with all the negative bull that has been written about him, the owner saying that due to the fact that he has missed roughly 300 games the past 3 years he isnt going to get the money he thinks he is going to get, that is the tipping point? That is what makes him say enough????
geez. it was a bad thing to say, but it was said in april and negotiations are in october. This is not going to even be remembered… unless everyone makes sucha big stink about a couple off the cuff comments that it is remembered.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
the problem isn't just that he's saying stupid things about reyes
it’s the underlying belief that Reyes isn’t worth a big contract because “everything has gone wrong for him” that suggests we won’t try particularly hard to re-sign him anyway.
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on May 23, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
oh right
i see you earned your degree in mind reading based off of one out of context comment printed in an article that has nothing to do with on the field baseball matter
he is not my favorite owner in the world, but I dont ever remember the mets not going after someone they wanted because of money not being there.
If the sandy (remember, the guy now running the team) wants Reyes back, Fred will pay for it. History shows us that.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
do Fred's comments rule out resigning Jose? no
do they make it obvious he is not going to pay a lot to keep him? yes. he makes it pretty clear he regrets the Beltran signing, combine that with his Reyes comments and its not a stretch to start believing we won’t retain Reyes.
as for Reyes standpoint, why is he going to want to stay here at a discount if the owner is just going to rip him at some completely uncalled for time.
I LIKE IKE!
Ultimately
if Fred realizes that the way to build a consistent winner is by buying low and building a farm system, that would be great, and I could live with a lean year at lower payroll.
That said, this old dog is not learning new tricks. As soon as a media chucklehead convinced him he was “one player away”, we’d get the same shit — contracts with extra years, traded prospects, etc.
The other reason those comments about Reyes are moronic
is why would anyone offer that much for Reyes in a trade now that they see how little Wilpon thinks of him? It’s idiotic from a trade value/bargaining standpoint. A Gm could throw those words right at Sandy Alderson in a trade negotiation.
because an article in the new yorker
that is about bernie madoff and has 3 small off the cuff out of context comments by the owner is not going to effect very much when negotiating with Sandy Alderson?
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
Exactly what I thought when I read this.
Who, in their right mind, offers fair value for Beltran (or Reyes) now that the world knows how little Alderson’s boss thinks of them?
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on May 23, 2011 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions
It would be great if everyone could just see these as a few off-the-cuff comments
by a stupid, but well-meaning man.
It would also be great if a big sack of money landed right in front of me.
well
if the people that watch the team more then any other group cant realize it and preach that they look at the big picture then I guess yeah… all hope is lost.
This blog is filled with people who talk about SSS and how when we evaluate players there are more important things then the big flashy HR number, or how David’s K’s (while troubling) are not the end of the world, or how Carlos Beltran is not a Unclutch Selfish guy… but when a comment comes out buried in an article that was made while watching the late innings of a bad baseball game it is something so important that it means that we can read into it how he is going to negotiate a 100 million dollar contract… It just seems like people making a big deal out of a relatively silly comment.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
Do you want him to say
550 stupid things before there’s enough of a “sample size”? You need the sample size to evaluate baseball players of similar skillsets because of random fluctuations in performance. This was not the tpye of boneheaded idiocy that just happened to slip out of his mouth while he was ordering at a Brazilian steakhouse: “I’ll have the 26 oz. and oh yeah, David Wright sucks.”
no
this was a comment or two that was made during a bad game of baseball about a team with the worst record in the league who just made one of the stupidest plays a team could make (the bunt call was bad, the bunt itself was bad, and getting doubled off was bad).
Its not a great comment, and may cost him some money when negotiating with reyes.
And he didnt say David sucks, he said he is a great player but not a superstar. And to be honest, I agree with that assessment. He is a really really good player. A core member of what could be a championship level team. But he is not at the same level as some of the future 1st ballot guys playing the game today. I think that all of us can at least agree on it being debatable to say David is a 1A or 1AA player.
I get it was a stupid thing to say and he should prob not do interviews of this length… I am not trying to argue that he was in the right…
I just think its getting blown out of proportion here.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
Yeah...
made by the owner of said baseball team that employs said players that were criticized.
Jose, Carlos and David are not robots, you think they are going to fully ignore the criticism of the owner of the team they play for?
These are not silly and innocent comments, and even though they will eventually pass for the next big story, they will not completely fade.
Irrational Mets fan known for memorable ranting and raving, when things inevitably go wrong.
no
they are not robots.
but they are adults, and i think they should fully accept that criticism can come down from their boss whether it is what they want to hear or not.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
"Some schmuck signed that guy"
“based on a few good games” (paraphrase) is “criticism”?
TKFJ word, not mine
but that one out of context quote that is clearly sarcastic in nature is probably not what Carlos should base his now 7 year relationship with the guy.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
We have been buried in stupid analyses of this team for 3 long, hard years now.
Our stars are to blame. Not the obvious weaknesses of the team, not its ownership or front office, mind you; in fact our team has been lucky enough to have such winning types as Cora and Francoeur – no, our stars have been responsible for the failure, because they are weak, unclutch, disappointing failures.
This is stupid, and it’s blame-shifting, by the guy most responsible, and it’s downright indecent. Look at these players – who have been called out for the last three years, and who now get it yet again this morning – and their production. They are not, have not been the problem. Have we suffered a lot of injury? Yes. It happens in sport. Might David fail to reach the Hall of Fame? Yes, this also happens, even to superstars.
The problems with this team’s construction, the reasons for its failure, have been glaring. GLARING. But what gets the newsprint? Beltran, Reyes and Wright. And now, here we go again, from the guy most responsible. The guy who is to blame, shifting blame.
Exactly
look at where the money has been spent. Beltran’s contract has actually been pretty decent (or was until he got hurt — which was unprecedented. He had always been healthy.) Reyes and Wright have been bargains. But was there any criticism of, say, the K-Rod deal? Oliver Perez? Jason Bay? Gary Matthews, Jr. getting guaranteed money? Victor Zambrano? Kris Benson? J.J. Putz? The naked farm system? Or going further back, Mo Vaughn? Robbie Alomar? Heck, even John Santana getting however much when there were red flags about his shoulder?
I have to say
“The Naked Farm System” sounds like a movie I’d want to see.
One day, this team is going to kill me.
Can we bring back Jessica Biel for this one?
She’s very, very hot. Not a superstar, though.
"The Naked Farm System" sounds like something Anna Benson should be starring in.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on May 23, 2011 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
right
or maybe it was all that was printed? since the actual article had nothing to do with the players on the field.
I am sure the reporter was sure to ask him about every aspect of things that had nothing to do with the article, and instead took 3 comments of not too much vitriol to help illustrate that things have been wrong for the mets. Cause that comment about Gary Matthews Jr is really gonna sell papers… or maybe because thats not what the article was about and everyone is taking these quotes 100% out of context????
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
Doubt it, but for the sake of argument
fine. I’m sure there was a veritable mountain of quotes explaining precisely why he should have invested more in college scouting. It doesn’t make his quotes about star players any better or more advisible.
right
It was a stupid comment made and that was used to highlight the fact that Fred loves to argue about baseball…
Thats about all that needs to be said. This isnt going to effect Jose resigning. Wright and Beltran prob dont care too much, as I am sure they have learned not to trust what is written in the papers and instead trust the fact that they have known Wilpon for a very long time and this isnt really going to effect their feelings for him very much.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
That would be the rose-colored view
I would imagine that, if he has a shred of sense left, he’s been on the horm with each of those guys this morning mumbling some sort of mea culpa.
i doubt too much was even needed
and honestly, as the boss, i doubt he has.
My boss says stupid things all the time that sometimes leave me cursing his name at night that I think are just so unfair and that he is a moron who doesnt realize the good thing he has in me as an employee…
but I deal. Just like they deal. And realize that just cause a guy signs my paycheck doesnt make him the decider of my career. And i would never base my career on a few comments he made and instead look at the full picture. Which, while not perfect for Fred, has not been that bad. Just like my boss… Just like most bosses.
I really doubt David felt too much about it. 90% of bosses suck. That doesnt change because you make 100 mil.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
This is in the media
which is a big difference. Sorry, but if my boss went to the paper and said I wasn’t worth what I was being paid, I’d head for the exits and make him sorry.
by tmu on May 23, 2011 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
but thats not what he did
he didnt
[go] to the paper and said I wasn’t worth what I was being paid
He was giving an interview about a different topic where the reporter took one sentence out of context. Was it a stupid comment? Yes. Was it somewhat hurtful? A little.
I guess you are talking about Jose, cause the david comment had nothing to do with money. So the question is Jose going to put more emphisis on a comment buried in a huge article that is honestly pretty true (while he isnt injury prone… he has missed a bunch of games the past couple years and there is ALWAYS a chance he is going to get hurt. If as a met fan you can tell me you dont hold your breath every time Jose does anything a little awkwardly you are lying).
The Mets are obviously going to negotiate with Reyes. If this was the deciding factor to his decision, and not the close to 10 years he has known the met organization… then yeah.
If my boss went to thepaper and talked about me it would be really shocking, considering I have never been in the paper… but for David and Jose? They gotta be used to taking what the media says with a grain of salt.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
In what context is it OK for him to bash his players like that?
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on May 24, 2011 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions
But it does
Because you could go somewhere else and do the exact same job for more money, less stress, and a better situation.
Enjoying what may be the final season of two of my favorite Mets in Blue and Orange: Jose Reyes and Carlos Beltran
I think you're really ignoring the respect angle.
If he thinks so poorly of you, you don’t expect him to pay you what you feel you’re worth. And even if he is, why would you play for him? I’ve had a boss who disrespected me behind my back – literally behind my back. I could hear her disparaging me to the rest of my department in her office while I sat at my desk. I would never work for for her again because of the things she said and did.
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on May 23, 2011 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions
i think you are overblowing the respect angle
people say stupid shit. They say things that are out of character and may be blowing off steam.
My boss says stupid stuff but at the end of the day I know he values me.
The mets have been behind David and Jose for a long time. My point is that they already know Fred much better then we do, and this article prob doesnt change too much… that is unless it gets blown WAY out of proportion, and it becomes a big deal.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
Honestly though, if another company calls you and tells you they'd up your pay 3% to come to them you'd probably listen though
Especially if said company offered a better work environment, better co-workers, and a facility to work in that didn’t make it more difficult to succeed at your job.
by Stephen Schmidt on May 23, 2011 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions
well... to be fair
i didnt say that there was bad pay, a poor work environment, bad co-workers or any diffuculty doing my job. I said my boss sometimes says stupid stuff. which is similar to what david could claim.
Yes the mets have made some poor decisions, but they have done good by david for the most part.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
Why wouldn't it affect the possibility of a Reyes re-signing?
Reyes has hinted he’d give the Mets something of a hometown discount, because he likes NY, the Mets, whatever. When your boss, the guy who will be the one shelling out money for your new contract says that you’re not as good as you think you are, and that you’re not worth as much as you deserve, why would you still extend that hometown discount?
In theory, Reyes for $14-$20 a year instead of $18-$24 can have a huge impact on his signability.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on May 23, 2011 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
ugh
whatever
you are all right.
there is just no hope. this is clearly reason for me to be so upset and hate on everything. the owner said 3 things that were picked up on during the research for a 12 page article that were damning to a couple start players (I am sure over the course of the article that this was the only 3 things he said about players) clearly means this owner, while not the best has been a somewhat adequate owner, hates everyone and hates the team and is going to be the reason nobody signs here ever again.
This is clearly the worst thing that has ever happened to this team.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
Nobody is saying it is the worst thing ever
It’s just not something you want the owner of a franchise saying to a reporter. Reporters dig and dig and dig to get one little soundbite, one little quote to add flair to their story. Wilpon gave it to him. Good owners don’t do that. Good owners/coaches are some of the most boring interviews ever because they do nothing but praise every player on their team.
I have interviewed enough people in my four years as a reporter to know that no matter how long the interview goes, you are always on the record.
Enjoying what may be the final season of two of my favorite Mets in Blue and Orange: Jose Reyes and Carlos Beltran
No one is saying that
People are saying that:
These comments may have a grain of truth, but are idiotic coming from the mouth of an owner
This will piss off players, current and potential
This will contribute to the media feeding frenzy by further exposing the team’s soft underbelly
This will continue to cement the Mets’ reputation as the butt of late-night jokes and the general perception that the franchise is poorly run and dysfunctional
A lot of us are saying these things, true, but no one of us is saying that it is worse than, say, Mejia needing TJ.
looking at the fact that this small article
has completely taken over met news… it seems to be somewhat a big deal for many people.
I mean…
I used to defend Fred Wilpon. For years, the Mets have had one of the highest payrolls in the league, befitting a New York team with its own television network. A beautiful new stadium was built under his watch. But in the wake of Wilpon-the-elder’s sports talk radio-esque comments in The New Yorker, those days are over. Fred Wilpon is a disgrace.
seems like this is a pretty big deal to folks around these parts.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
On a Monday morning
and yes, I stand by my statement that it’s extremely unfortunate behavior by Wilp and, in my view, monumentally dumb.
Also, it is the kind of thing that annoys by inciting some level of anger. TJ for Mejia and Chris Young falls more under the “deflating” end of the spectrum. Hence, people are venting, and there is an echo chamber effect. But I doubt it’s being blown too far out of proportion by individuals.
fair enough
and i didnt mean to start a whole firestorm.
I get that this is a place to vent and lord knows I have done it too…
just trying to level some perspective that it may not be that big a deal.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
I agree
The worst part of the article is the writer’s comment that Jose Reyes has only had a “pedestrian career”. What did Fred say that was actually that bad?
*Beltran isn’t 100%. Everyone knows that. The comment about him not deserving his contract was bad, though.
*Reyes has been hurt and won’t get Crawford money. Duh. Dave Cameron thinks he will get 4/70, which is obviously not Crawford money.
*Wright is a very good player, not a superstar. Yeah, we know. He WAS a superstar, but otherwise I agree with Fred.
Should Fred have said all of these things “on the record”? No. But the article was about him and Madoff, not how he feels about his players. That only took up a little bit of the actual article. Those comments could have easily been taken out of context. This is a non-story.
I'm new, but there comes a time where you just physically can't read Metsblog.com without throwing up. So now I'm here, and my toolbar has been adjusted accordingly.
The line about Reyes is damning, yes.
He’s an elite shortstop who has doesn’t really have an “injury history”- a few injuries does not make one injury prone. Would Niese be injury prone, because of that hammy issue the other year?- two of which were early in his career, after which he came back fine and put up a bunch of 5.0+ WAR seasons, and as a FA has hinted that he might give the Mets a home town discount because he likes the Mets/playing in New York/being teammates with Nick Evans/whatever. He’s going to get more money than Carl Crawford, because he’s a younger, better player, who plays at a more demanding position. If you were Jose Reyes, having been told thusly by your boss that you’re not as good as you think you are (which the stats disagree with), why would you want to give them a discount anymore, or even something generically market level. I know I’d feel spiteful.
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on May 23, 2011 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i am not trying to say these guys are not great players
i just disagree with the severity of his comments. I dont agree with them, and feel it was very stupid of him to say publicly… but I find the overraction to be more of an eye roller then his initial comments.
This idea that the owner has to be this infallible human is not on target. Is he who I want running my team? No… I wish we had a met fan and not a dodger fan and I would be happy if he sold the team. But we hear about his misgivings and the things surrounding the mets because it sells papers and NYC has so many papers. Owners of other sports do similar things but we dont hear them. The papers write about them because we met fans go on about any little thing until the wee hours of the night.
Do I think Jose is injury prone? Prob not. But when you are about ot pay someone over 100 million dollers, you bet its a big deal that he played in under 40 games 2 of the last 3 seasons, and the one other he did miss about 1/3 of the season. Yes, he is helping his cause this year a ton (keep in mind when the comments were made, it was still jsut a hot start to the year).
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
A strawman and basic error in facts
This idea that the owner has to be this infallible human is not on target.
No one here is saying that the owner has to be infallible. And as far as we know, no owner of another major sports franchise openly discussed his players in a negative light – at least not since George Steinbrenner’s heyday.
, you bet its a big deal that he played in under 40 games 2 of the last 3 seasons, and the one other he did miss about 1/3 of the season
Umm, where are you getting these figures. He played 159 games in ‘08, 36 in ’09, and then 133 last year. Maybe you mistyped and meant to say he played in under 40 games once, but he didn’t miss 1/3 of the season last year. This year he hasn’t missed a game.
your right i did misread the stats
that is my bad.
he didnt miss all those games.
But as far as the first point… you think that no other owners ever say negative things about his players? That this is the first instance of an owner being unhappy about things his players are doing? I cant believe that.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
Owners can be unhappy with their players
I have no problem with that. Owners can be unhappy with their team. I have no problem with that.
(A) They don’t have to use the papers to let those players know they’re unhappy.
(B) The way in which he attacked Wright, Beltran, and Reyes was very unconstructive
© One of those players is a homegrown superstar All-Star elite player who is in a contract year. It serves no purpose only to hurt negotiations to call him out thusly.
If he left it to, “The Mets are playing shitty”, “The Mets are cursed”, whatever, I’d have a chuckle at his (and ours, really) expense, and that’d be all.
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on May 23, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This
As far as I’m concerned, Wilpon has really messed up here. He wants a winning team, but he then damns his 3 best player, two of whom are free agents this year, and a free agent next year. Nevermind that he’s also made signing for the Mets a less viable option.
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by Aidan Gibson on May 23, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
So just because other owners do it that makes it the right thing to do?
Let’s see…
Just because some criminals rob convenience stores, I guess that makes it the right thing to do, right?
Sorry, but that’s just not smart logic. Just because another owner bashes his player, doesn’t make it right. They’re just as stupid as Fred is and should be bashed for it too, if they haven’t been by their fans.
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by Steve Schreiber on May 23, 2011 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
i wasnt saying that
i am saying that it happens and its not going to sink the ship.
He should watch what he says more, and it was stupid, but part of this is just the media doing their best to find any reason to get met fans in a tizzy… Just because a boss trashes his employee a little (and little is really the word here) doesnt mean that the entire organization is going to crumble.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
It's a sign of awful leadership,
and it says to other players that you will receive a similar level of ‘respect’ from Fred Wilpon if you join the Mets in the future. If anything, it’s a sign that the organization has already begun to crumble.
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on May 23, 2011 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions
but thats my point
is it a deal. yes. is it a big deal… no.
its not a sign that the organization has begun to crumble. Its a sign that the owner said something stupid.
the funnier thing to me is that the article said some damning stuff about his relationship to Madoof… yet this is the stuff that is getting everyone upset. THAT is much more of a sign that the organization has begun to crumble.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
This
It is extremely rare in a non-Al Davis scenario for an owner to say the things Fred did about active, productive players. This is not a “shit, in retrospect, we shouldn’t have drafted Ryan Leaf” situation. This is more like “Phillip Rivers is a fine young man, but not an elite quarterback.” And the Beltran quotes are absolutely astounding. Fred basically calling himself a moron for signing Beltran (to what is actually not a bad contract at all) is among the most incendiary things I’ve seen an owner say about a player.
Relative to his position
goddamn right David Wright is a superstar.
No one will be A-Rod in their prime. If you go by that barometer a lot of great ballplayers look like horseshit.
"You're Darryl Strawberry!" "Yes?" "You play right field!" "Yes?" "Well, are you better than me?" "I've never met you.... but.... yes."
by Five-Tool Tool on May 23, 2011 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions
especially when A-ROID cheated
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
by feslenraster on May 23, 2011 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions
it is
and he should have had better judgement.
also, keep in mind that when he said this.. the mets were 5-13 when he was interview for this article. before the back issue with write came out…
I am not saying it was the right thing to do, or a smart move, or helpful in anyway… But it seems that it is getting overblown by everyone. Its like as soon as anything at all negative comes out, we met fans bend over backwards to blow it out of proportion and make it worse.
The title of this article is comparing Fred to a WFAN caller… but I disagree. I think this article here and most of the comments are much more akin to radio call in’ers then what Fred said.
My boss says stupid stuff all the time that makes me and my coworkers shake their heads. Most of us have or had bosses that do. But it is what it is and you get though it. He didnt say reyes sucks. he didnt say david is awful. He said something a little to personal about his team to a journalist during the 9th inning of a bad game in april. its not the end of the world.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
ugh... that was a reply to TKFJ reply to me
commenting fail.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
wow, does this guy not realize the shitstorm comments like that will unleash
he really does make stupid an art form doesn’t he
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on May 23, 2011 12:55 PM EDT reply actions
I often defended Fred Wilpon, citing those above things
He “cared” enough to invest a lot into the team. He built us a nice new stadium. He lobbied for the All-Star Game (which is a cool thing to have). The Wilpons haven’t been the best owners, but they haven’t been the worst, either. So much of the stuff we’ve heard in the papers/radio has been blown up BS, and I’ve always given the Wilpons the benefit of the doubt.
This, everything piled on, I don’t know if I can really defend them in good conscious anymore.
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on May 23, 2011 12:58 PM EDT reply actions
Lobbied for an All-Star game?
Met’s havn’t had the game since 1964 when Shea opened up. That’s the longest stretch without a team having an All-Star game in league history. And finally we might get in 2013, mainly because we built a new ballpark.
The idea that the Wilpons havn’t been going overslot in the draft because they want to stay on Seligs good side and get an All-Star Game makes me sick. I’d say he’s done a remarkably shitty job of lobby for an All Star Game.
"I only wanted a few things out of life -- a wife, children, to play baseball and to hunt deer." - Turk Wendell
This is incorrect facts
The mets have been offered to host the all-star game a couple of times and have turned it down.
Which doesn't change the point
He’s done a remarkably shitty job of lobbying for an All-Star Game. For a guy who supposedly has an amazing relationship with Bud Selig, the team hasn’t seen a game since 1964. And all those years of not going overslot for drafted players for what? To eventually get it when you open your new park, as virtually all teams do?
"I only wanted a few things out of life -- a wife, children, to play baseball and to hunt deer." - Turk Wendell
It's pretty obvious that the All Star game isn't the reason for them
not going to overslot. The reasons why they rarely go overslot in the draft are stupidity and cheapness.
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by Steve Schreiber on May 24, 2011 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I hate that he doesn't appreciate Beltran
I hate that he doesn’t give Wright the credit he deserves, I hate that he mocks Jose Reyes for demanding top dollar for being one of the best players in baseball at his position, but I think what I hate the most of all is him calling the Mets a shitty team. Having your boss say your performance isn’t good enough is rough enough on a player (especially when unfounded), but having him say the entire product is garbage, when he’s the one who built it and all the players can do is play for him to the best of their ability is just insulting to the players. That comment was really the one that infuriated me the most.
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on May 23, 2011 1:01 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
Yeah.
Pretty ironic that he’s the guy who has the keys to the car, so to speak. If the team is that shitty, Fred why don’t you do something about it? Why don’t you spend more money on the draft and in the IFA markets? Why would you hire a General Manger who is a barely functioning moron and then give him a 3 year extension on top of that? It’s incomprehensible that this guy is the owner of the team and has the gall to it shitty. Guess what, Fred? You’re the owner. That is all on you, bud. Maybe you should run the team a little better.
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by Steve Schreiber on May 23, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
That's the part that I could care least about, really
It’s non specific and general, and is just a tad more harsh than “The team hasn’t been playing well, and it’s showing”, and that’s not incendiary.
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on May 23, 2011 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
TRAID teh Core
seriously, don’t you know Voltron, Reyes and Wright are schmucks, Keithsmoustache?
so much for them staying….and how is Alderson going to repair this damage NOW.
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
by feslenraster on May 23, 2011 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions
you gotta remember the game he was watching when he said that too
the 4-19 team (or something like that) just lost to the astros by a double play off a bunt in the 9th inning. I think we all said that about this team at that point too… but he should have held his tongue in front of a reporter.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
except I was being sarcastic
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
by feslenraster on May 24, 2011 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
it wasnt a reply to you
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
I have always hated fred and jeff
I believe they are responsible for are lack luster farm system, series of terrible FA signings and hiring managers that have cow towed to jeffy.. Now this, Just sell the team and go away.and Jose deserves a beltran type contract NOW. Wright is the closest thing we have to a superstar and beltran was a pretty good FA signing
I have no love lost for the Wilpons
(although I’ve always had more of an issue with Jeff than Fred), but while they were stupid comments (especially about Beltran, and Wright actually not still being a superstar might have as much to do with Citi as anything), they were hardly a crime against humanity. I feel like sometimes just as WFAN-types overact one way, some people on here go the other way.
It's a baseball team
nothing is a crime against humanity. But as idiotic actions by baseball owners go, this is one big honking salami.
Exactly
You gotta take things in the context of what they are. Like with Tom Glavine, him pitching real bad that one game isn’t devastating, when there’s a real world out there, where a child dies every 10 seconds from starvation, and governments oppress their people violently, and all of that other stuff. Taking things in the context of the baseball world, these are retarded things to say, especially unprompted. In the grander scheme of the world, who cares. But, we’re not looking at things from the grander scheme of the world.
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on May 23, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
It was just an expression
Obviously, I was talking in a baseball context, I didn’t mean that Fred should be in the clear because no genocide was involved. I don’t like the comments either, I just think some people are going a little overboard.
From a baseball context,
these are retarded things that he said, that likely will come back to shoot him/the team in the foot, in some way, shape, or form. They’re totally stupid, unsolicited, unnecessary comments that should be condemned/whatever you want to call what we’re doing.
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on May 23, 2011 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
my two cents
i think Mount 17 is onto something: all the fervor among the fanboys on here has shown once again that even fans that pride themselves on rational, “fact” based analysis resort quickly to emotion based arguments when it comes to these polarizing stories. we’re still “fanatics” no matter how contrarian and anti-“MSM” we are.
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on May 23, 2011 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
SCREW YOU, YOU
Wilpon-loving pansy!!!!!
I got yer sample-size right here.
But seriously, players WILL take note of these quotes, and said quotes WILL contribute to the perception that the Mets are the armpit of the Majors.
Also, people are just plain frustrated and horrified that our team’s owner is really this stupid. Again, maybe it’s part of the Madoff defense. I will gladly take the stand and explain that, yes, from a random fan’s perspective, Wilpon is a moron.
i think Fred just wanted to get the blogs going again
you know, as part of the Mets outreach program
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on May 23, 2011 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I need Cerrone's
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . tak. . . e. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
did Fred mention Metsblarg?
imagine that.
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on May 23, 2011 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Presented by Verizon
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on May 23, 2011 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
yes, he said, and I quote....
“Cerrone is a nice kid, but he is not a super star blogger”
One day, this team is going to kill me.
It seems more like that Fred wanted to troll all of the blogs at once
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
It's tough to keep track of all the contrarianism
The original story was by the hated MSM! so immediately the fanboys should be against it and support Fred Wilpon right? But then again, fanboys hate the Wilpons so yay for The New Yorker. But, in another twist, the fanboys have overblown this and it’s no big deal. We’ve all thought these things, he’s just saying it — no harm done! I’m not sure what to do.
Wilpon said something publicly that he shouldn’t have. It was really dumb. I’m sick of the team’s best players being blamed and it’s even worse when the owner does it. I want to slam Fred Wilpon now, not 3 minutes from now. That’s my stance.
by James Kannengieser on May 23, 2011 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
well you are an opinion leader K-gun, so the pressure is on you
I personally am finding it hard to be surprised by a single element of this. Has measurable harm really been done? What’s one more turd in the punch bowl? We’re already slapping our heads about the organization’s haplessness/incompetence/criminality. Free agents already must know Flushing is a career death trap. Sadly the core’s primes were already squandered. The Wilpons specialize in making bad things worse, but we hit rock bottom a long time ago.
I could be persuaded, but don’t know if i totally agree with your main point, that Fred is blaming the stars, at least in the article. But i only skimmed it. He seems to be trying to channel the every-man hangman humor of the regular Met fan to garner sympathy. Of course he might not realize his complicity in the core’s performance.
How does this all matter? I guess that this whole thing might matter is if Wright takes it as the last straw when it comes for him to make career decisions, but I doubt it will be a main factor for him. Otherwise the main consequence is to get the blog traffic back up. The only thing that really would interest me is Alderson’s take on all this: either he now has the cover to do some unpopular things soon, or he is making a down payment on a retirement house for next year.
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on May 23, 2011 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
It's a vegetarian conspiracy
That should be obvious.
__________________________________________________
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The Caliphate! The Calphate!
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on May 23, 2011 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
You're all wrong.
It’s the reverse vampires, operating in conjunction with the RAND Corporation.
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on May 23, 2011 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I heard a guy on a grassy knoll did it
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on May 23, 2011 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions
George Soros, in the grassy knoll, with the ACORN!
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on May 24, 2011 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Who's not being rational, though?
He said something stupid, more or less unprompted, calling out specific players, in addition to saying the team wasn’t playing very good. For every action, there is a reaction, and in this case, the reaction vis-a-vis the Mets and specific free agents (Jose Reyes, and possibly others) is likely to be, at the very least, negative. I’m angry because what he said tips the balancing scale of the Mets retaining Jose Reyes X degrees to the ‘No’ side. I want the Mets to win in the future, and Jose Reyes is a big part of the Mets winning, being a premium player at a premium position.
If he said something like, “Yeah, yeah, yeah, the Mets suck, whatever”, I’d have no real problem with it, because it really wouldn’t be having much of an impact on baseball operations going forward. Calling out Reyes (and, to a lesser degree, Beltran and Wright) can.
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on May 23, 2011 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
well your reaction is your reaction
i would say though, for the sake of conversation, there is a difference between being quoted by a profile, and “calling out” players Steinbrenner style. Fred’s a bumbler, not a rumbler.
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on May 23, 2011 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Fred’s a bumbler, not a rumbler.
I like that.
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on May 23, 2011 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
just noting on something you said
Fred should be apologizing to us and David Wright for him not being a superstar (and having a broken back from carrying the team), it is Fred’s fault we play in the stadium worst suited for Dubs skills – where RF power goes to die.
I LIKE IKE!
I gotta say, this is mind-boggling
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on May 23, 2011 1:53 PM EDT reply actions
Think anyone would care to explain to Wilpon
that Beltran’s contract, in retrospect, was one of the better Mets signings ever when it comes to performance and value? Is there anyway he could comprehend that, or is it too difficult, since he’s an asshole that’s probably too dumb and too lazy to understand things like WAR?
Exactly
It’s not like Wilpon is using advanced metrics or anything to back up any of these positions. He’s just ranting like a mongo. And Toobin perpetuates the myth of Wilpon as some great baseball man who knows what he’s talking about. He’s not. He’s just a rich guy who likes baseball. Anyone who plays into Fred’s delusions — like Omar — is a friend for life.
by Bieser's Balk on May 23, 2011 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Fred Wilpon knows pitching!
It says so in the article!
If it says that in a newspaper, it must be true.
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on May 23, 2011 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
That's fucking logic!
Now, kids, being eaten by a crocodile is just like going to sleep; in giant blender.
Only if you agree that they agree with you.
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3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on May 23, 2011 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions
If it's true, why isn't it on the scoreboard?
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on May 23, 2011 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions
wow.... wow... wow.
If there’s anybody u need to pay carl crawford money to, its Reyes and its not even close. Dudes leading the national league in everything that matters. And of course Dubs ain’t a “superstar”, you hindered his potential by surrounding him with double A players and playing in such a cavernous place so difficult to hit in. And Beltran, saying he got signed because “some schmuck” paid him for what he did in the playoffs with the astros? Yeah, Fred is a schmuck, he got that part right. He thinks Tron hasnt paid off… Need we remind Wilpon that Beltran and his 41 homers were the reason we were so dominant in 06. And the only reason we didn’t make it to the WS that year was because of the crappy bullpen he allowed Omar Minaya peice together. Wow… dude. Bud Selig needs to overthrow this guy a la dodgers, stat. We should write him an open letter.
#signreyesNOW
by The Talented Mr. Dickey on May 23, 2011 2:09 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Selig overthrew Wilpon as much as possible
when he strongly recommended that Sandy Alderson be hired.
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
If nothing else
You’ve got to respect his honesty. He didn’t say anything untrue about the players, except Beltran has been worth his contract. Maybe he expected Bautista like numbers when he signed him. Instead he got a great center fielder miscast as a cleanup hitter.
Actually, that pretty much sums up what the Mets always do. They miscast players, expect the world of them, and then wonder why they fail. Jason Bay is much closer to Josh Willingham than he is to Matt Holliday but hey, he’ll be the heart of the order masher that the team needs. Right?
For the other comments, well, Wright is no Schmidt or Brett. But he’s a top five 3rd baseman and that’s valuable in itself. Same goes for Reyes. The scary part is that Wilpon doesn’t seem to recognize positional scarcity or think of it as important.
But, he kinda did
Kansas City/Astros: Averaged 24 HRs over six mostly full seasons
Mets: 25.4 over five mostly full seasons (will likely go up at the end of this season, since he has 8 so far, in 44 games)
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on May 23, 2011 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I just want to offer my perspective on this, as an outside fan
I honestly don’t see how anyone can defend Wilpon in this at all. Maybe some aspects of the full interview are being highlighted more than any other, but that’s because he actually said them. Of course they’re going to be highlighted. That’s what the media does, they look for EXACTLY these types of moronic comments so they can run with it. It’s why players are given PR training, especially in a sports heavy city like NY. Now, once again, they’ve been given something to run with, just like with the Posada-gate shit on my side of the NY sports fandom, but what’s so incredibly worse is that this didn’t come from a player or a GM. It came from the fucking owners of the team. When you’re more intelligent fanbase hears the owner of the team talking like some fucking moron calling on FAN, it’s not only disheartening, but it makes you truly realize why your team is thought of as a joke; because it’s run by a fucking clown.
To say that your All Star SS isn’t worth Carl Crawford money is so mindbogglingly stupid that I had to read it 3 times. CARL CRAWFORD ISN’T WORTH HIS CONTRACT AND JOSE REYES IS. Hell, I’d argue that Reyes is worth more than Crawford, and he will get that big of a contract somewhere. The Yankees, if they didn’t have Jeter, would easily pay him that much. The Red Sox will do it in a fucking heartbeat. Hell the Nationals are spending like beasts lately. Someone will offer Reyes that much money, so by coming out and saying that, even if Reyes does love the Mets or not, it just absolutely does not help.
In the end, it’s almost like putting an exclamation point on the past 5 years of this team. Hiring GM’s & managers who are absolutely terrible, and keeping them on for far, FAR longer than most would. Having said GM surround incredibly talented players, both homegrown and purchased, with mediocre chumps who should be bench players or members of the Long Island Ducks. Seeing your team go from near WS contenders to punchlines in this span and then blaming the talented players who fucking got you there instead of the losers who surround them & the morons who gave them a job. And finally, after somewhat cleaning house and hiring someone intelligent to be your GM, almost every month or every other month, some news comes out with the Madoff debacle, the dire straights of the monetary situation, and so on and so forth, and your fanbase puts up with it because they’re hoping things can turn around or that these clowns will sell the team.
And finally, when trying to rebuild not only your team but your respectability as well, and after actually playing pretty decent baseball for the month of May, showing some good talent like Justin Turner, and dealing with the injuries of fan favorites like Wright & Ike Davis, your owner once again puts on his clown nose and drags this organization right back into the media gutter it was trying to escape from.
To defend this man in any way at this point is a fools errand. The best thing you can hope for is that he spewed this bile from his mouth because he knows no one is buying just some shares and that he’s going to have to sell this team. As I have life long friends who are life long Mets fans, I really do feel for them and for any intelligent fans of this organization.
-I’mGivingYouAYankeeFanPerspective
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on May 23, 2011 2:51 PM EDT reply actions 20 recs
The way Wilpon runs things, I almost feel like I’m rooting for the Cleveland Indians in Major League. Only difference is Wilpon’s not trying to move them to Miami.
In Lou We Trust!! (but that doesn't mean we don't wonder sometimes...)
That’s the first impression I got (and still have) when I read the quotes. Mind-boggling shit.
by Scooby Snacks on May 23, 2011 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
you're a Yankee fan, right ?.
I think I read that the other day ?
One day, this team is going to kill me.
Yeah. Born and raised Yankees fan through the 80's to today.
Which is why I probably come off as more….reasonable than other members of my fanbase. Haha, like I told my friend after the 98 season was over, “This season is going to spoil Yankee fans for a looooooooong time!” because a lot of them are not use to watching mediocrity or utter stupidity like this, because all they know is the dynasty they grew up with and the constant spending to win win win that came afterwards.
And that’s what this all reminds me of, sadly. It reminds me of the 80’s Yankees, but much worse because the media presence has gotten so much worse due to the 24 Sports Networks & the instant information that the internet provides.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on May 23, 2011 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah......you guys have been lucky
I remember the Yanks of the 70s and late 80s.
at least I have that to comfort me on days like this
One day, this team is going to kill me.
That's why I find this so sad really
Because from 2006 onward, the Mets could’ve been similar to the 1994-96 Yankees in terms of slowly building from a very good farm system and surrounding them with very decent players, but not superstars. That what the Mets looked like they were doing in 05’ and 06’, but then you see the Castillo’s, the Ollie’s, and so forth, and then people have the audacity to blame failure on the incredible farm guys who the team should have built around.
Yeah, we were incredibly lucky, and for me personally, the luckiest, best thing that happened to us is that we got a home grown closer with an “unhittable” pitch. The Mets have a really good group of young, core players they should build around. Reyes, Wright, Davis, Pagan, and now possibly Turner. Outside of Pagan, if Turner is the real deal, I’d argue the Mets have one of the best, most talented infields in the majors, which is really hard to do. Sandy seems to be on the right path, and it just really saddens me that you might not be able to keep them. I really hope you can.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on May 23, 2011 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Pagan is about to be 30
he has had more injuries than Reyes and only really 2 good seasons, we should not be building around him. If he is still here at the end of next season, the Mets should just let him walk as a FA, especially since all of our prospects are outfielders. I think we should probably trade him this year if he comes back strong and soon enough.
I LIKE IKE!
good point, but....
Pagan will never make Crawford / Reyes money
One day, this team is going to kill me.
He's had everything wrong with him.
He won’t get it.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
by Steve Schreiber on May 23, 2011 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions
some schmuck might give him a big contract
I LIKE IKE!
Valid points about Pagan
He’s not a superstar
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on May 24, 2011 4:17 AM EDT up reply actions
You sir...you get it.
Are you sure you’re Yankee fan? You seem to be too rational.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
by Steve Schreiber on May 23, 2011 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha, we are out there!
Believe me, I know fully well what my fanbase is capable of, just like I’m sure you do with the FAN crowd.
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on May 23, 2011 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions
You def not a Yankee fan
"You can spend minutes, hours, days weeks or even months overanalyzing a situation; trying to put the pieces together, justifying what would’ve, could’ve happened – or you can just leave the pieces on the floor and move the **** on."
-Tupac Amaru Shakur
by NetsMets4Life on May 23, 2011 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on May 23, 2011 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Thank you.
Sad that a Yankee fan is somehow more knowledgeable about our team than the owner.
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on May 23, 2011 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Growing up before my eyes, IGYAR!
"Nature never intended for you to survive here. But this fall, nature isn't the only thing to fear." September 10, 2011. Alabama vs. Penn State. White House.
by Chris McKeown on May 23, 2011 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions
i rec'd waht you said
although I think I may be comming off as defending Fred.
I am not. The only thing I am saying is that this is not as big a deal as all the other stuff that has ahppened. this, dispite the uproar, is not the straw that will break the camels back.
We know fred is a dope, and these comments… while stupid… are not that big a deal.
all the stuff in the article about his relationship with Madoff is much more damning in my eyes.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
I have always believed that this organization will not see a true light at the end of the tunnel
as long as WIlpon is the owner. I feel that it is impossible for this team to win a championship. And I think it starts at the very top. Fred Wilpon just reeks. I dont know of what, but he does.
And the stupidest part about this is if he feels his players arent productive, then why dont you acquire better players? Oh yeah, its because your money is all gone. This whole thing seems just really really dumb, for real.
My New Jersey Nets went from a laughing to stock to being in the position to be come the world’s first truly global basketball team. We are getting more and more positive press and we are about to move into the world’s first billion dollar arena. And that is because of Mikhail Prokhorov, the russian who bought the team after the dreadful 12-70 season. It starts at the top, period. Good owner = good team, bad owner = bad team. Kinda obvious.
"You can spend minutes, hours, days weeks or even months overanalyzing a situation; trying to put the pieces together, justifying what would’ve, could’ve happened – or you can just leave the pieces on the floor and move the **** on."
-Tupac Amaru Shakur
Eh, I don't know if I'd go that far...
I mean, the Giants won a World Series with Sabean at their helm, and ownership that is, if nothing else, unremarkable. Texas had massive ownership/money problems a year or so ago, and they got to the World Series. The McCourts were fucktards, but the Dodgers did relatively good over the last half decade or so.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on May 23, 2011 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess it is not that way all the time.
There are a few exceptions, very few. But I think most can agree that its more likely to have a good team if you have a good owner.
"You can spend minutes, hours, days weeks or even months overanalyzing a situation; trying to put the pieces together, justifying what would’ve, could’ve happened – or you can just leave the pieces on the floor and move the **** on."
-Tupac Amaru Shakur
by NetsMets4Life on May 23, 2011 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
A good GM
In theory, all owners need to do are sign checks, and that’s that. They don’t always do that, but…
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on May 23, 2011 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Are the Nets really a global basketball team now?
If so, are they really the first? I mean, the Lakers are far more popular, as were the Bulls during the Jordan days.
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on May 23, 2011 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Not yet, were not.
But while teams like the Lakers are popular in other countries, the Nets are looking to gain much if the world’s support. They are Russia’s team. After playing in London, they are being called the UK’s team. They want to become Europe’s team, and Israel’s most popular NBA team. Each day goes by, it looks like they are going to accomplish that goal.
"You can spend minutes, hours, days weeks or even months overanalyzing a situation; trying to put the pieces together, justifying what would’ve, could’ve happened – or you can just leave the pieces on the floor and move the **** on."
-Tupac Amaru Shakur
by NetsMets4Life on May 23, 2011 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I did not read all the comments.
I hate Fred too much. Has anyone mentioned alcohol as the culprit for these comments?
I have no words on Fred Wilpon other than, "IF IT IS A SHITTY TEAM THEN FUCKING SELL IT ALREADY!!!!111!!1one!!"
Also I love Wright’s second comment
This will hurt the Mets' chances for years
Why would any of those guys (or anyone else) play hard for a boss like that? A good boss’ job is to stand up for his employees, to take the brunt of the b.s. so that they can do their jobs. Why would you play hard for a guy who’s going to abandon you when things are going badly? No, if I’m Wilpon, I never, NEVER, say disparaging things about my players, unless it’s contract time or someone needs a kick in the ass. I’m sure as hell not going to say that in front of a reporter.
It’s quite obvious that the problem with this organization is not what’s on the field.
So, as you all know...
my wife is firmly in the “TRAID EVERYBODY” camp…….
discussing the Freddie comments about Wright with her, she came up with the following:
Has he ever won an MVP ? = NO
Has he ever led the league in HR ? = NO
Has he ever led the league in BA ? = NO
I pointed out that there are gold gloves in the mix, and her response was…….
ANYBODY CAN WIN ONE OF THOSE.
I am presently looking for a basement I can rent and a room mate to help with expenses
One day, this team is going to kill me.
thats not true, only really good hitters can win gold gloves!
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on May 23, 2011 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions
then my work here is done... for now!
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on May 23, 2011 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Lake Champlain ate the basement in my old place, so I'm currently residing in a place without
You’re out of luck I think
by Stephen Schmidt on May 23, 2011 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
He should have won the 2007 MVP
But, whatever…
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on May 24, 2011 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I actually bothered to send an e-mail to the Mets about this
Here’s what I wrote:
I have been a loyal Mets fan since 1987, despite all logic and reason. I have supported this team despite the debacle that was “The Worst Team Money Could Buy”, the Scott Kazmir trade, Oliver Perez’ $36 million dollar contract, Steve Phillips’ sexual harassment, and the entirety of the Omar Minaya era. I bring these painful memories up not to re-open old wounds, but to point out what a faithful fan I’ve been. But today, for the first time, I am actually ashamed to be a Mets fan. Never did I think that this franchise would sink to the point where the owner would publicly humiliate his own players. What possible defense could there be for saying such things? I cannot imagine one. So congratulations, Fred Wilpon, you have accomplished what Vince Coleman, Tony Bernazard, and Jerry Manuel could not – you have made me reconsider my support of the Mets.
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on May 23, 2011 6:51 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
UNACCEPTABLE
Not even Wang (Islanders) and Dolan (Rangers, Knicks) are this bad. This is pathetic for a New York sports franchise owner to say. This is fucking disgusting, Wilpon needs to go and NOW!
Mets, Jets, Devils, United Football League
While this man is owner of the mets im not giving them a single dime
Freedom is a road seldom traveled by the multitudes...
I'm always telling people
If only we could get rid of Reyes, Beltran, and Wright, we’d totally be contending!
by Sifl on May 23, 2011 9:41 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
here's a radical idea
hey Wilpons —why don’t you take a look at your own level of incompetence instead of blaming or “motivating” your players?
why don’t you take the high road and say you made a mistake in dealing with Madoff the scam artist?
why don’t you take the high road and say you made a bad choice by allowing a schmuck like Omar run baseball operations—handing out ridiculous contracts left and right to bad players? (not Beltran). and then EXTENDING him a 4 year deal despite what happened during his tenure?
why don’t you actually praise players when they do well?
this isn’t helping their trade value any.
why doesn’t the bosses admit they have NO clue how to run a baseball franchise and sell it and apologize to the thousands of loyal suffering fans?
why don’t the —pons admit they are the problems of this franchise and made it into a sorry joke?
go duct tape your mouths dunk your heads in toilets and KEEP it there Wilpons, you have NO IDEA just how much you’re despised in this city by loyal fans.
no clue, no class no grission, GO the hell away Wilpons. you bring shame to the House of Baseball.
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
by feslenraster on May 23, 2011 9:45 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
So what can the fan base do?
I have had it. I purchased 6 tickets for Saturday’s game vs. The Phillies . Brain Tumor Awareness night. My son is a 10 year survivor and I always felt the Mets do support good causes. I was enjoying the season, the resurgence of Jose/Beltran, the youth contributions, and Sandy’s level headed presence in the media too.On saturday morning we were a 500 team and Dickey shut down the prima donnas of the Bronx..
Then the punch in the stomach from a man who may or may not have a clue why his franchise is worth $1B – baseball fan loyalty. As a marketer, high “switching costs” create amazing value to a firm and in the world of American MLB there is no higher switching cost – it is never done except in the cases where a team evaporates (expos, senators)…
So what to do? Please post suggestions.. Open letters, boycott, fan sponsored media ads near citifield…maybe hire the navy seals to drop in on the wilpon compound..I really love this team but cannot take it anymore…
How close can we get to the stadium for a protest w/o being arrrested?
What’s the rule regarding bringing in signs? If they’re not allowed, perhaps we can get ‘Fire Wilpon’ shirts made up, Or go in wearing anti-Wilpon shirts under jackets or jerseys.
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on May 23, 2011 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions
You can boycott the game. I'll take those tickets...to, ah...make sure that other people boycott the game
Yeah, that’s it…
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on May 24, 2011 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions
my best friend is battlling a brain tumor as we speak
I had tickets, but gave them away. Instead I will do a 5K walk to raise funds.
One day, this team is going to kill me.
by fxcarden on May 24, 2011 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Not sure
For some reason Im watched the Boston/Indians game on ESPN to feel better
Mets, Jets, Devils, United Football League
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