Kicking the Tires on a 2011 Playoff Push
While the Mets treating the Great Jose Reyes Resigning Debate of 2011 in isolation is wise, it does leave room to wonder how to complement such a move. You're dealing with one of the hottest players in baseball at one of the most difficult positions to fill, but he can't do it all by himself. In the near or distant future, Reyes will always need help.
And Sandy Alderson may soon find himself in a position to provide it. Dan Martin of the New York Post reiterated comments by Jeff Wilpon regarding the tautness of club's purse strings if the Mets look capable of making a postseason run.
From Martin:
"He'll have all the opportunity in the world to bring anybody he wants in," team COO Jeff Wilpon said yesterday, without giving the GM carte blanche. "The way for him to do that is to bring the ideas to us and we'll talk about it. But he does not have restrictions. We'll deal with everything on a case-by-case basis."
Naturally, this leads into the obvious conversation about why the Mets haven't signed Reyes to the longest possible, most reasonable contract extension ever awarded to a human being. Even with Martin including the disclaimer about Alderson lacking the carte blanche previously at Omar Minaya's disposal, you thought it. You thought, "Just spend the money on Reyes, dammit."
So say the Mets do just that. Then what?
The Mets presently project a win total between 78-82 wins, depending on how well you get along with Pythagoras. That pairs well with many preseason predictions for a third-place club expected to fall short of a meaningful Wild Card race, but leaves enough daylight to ask what could be if Alderson refrains from waving the white flag at the trade deadline.Resigning Reyes doesn't lift that total much. His contributions are included in that 78-82 win total, which would likely fall off a bit if he leaves prematurely. He's certainly on an MVP-like tear, but may still need a ridiculously Ruthian finish to single-handedly lift the Mets above 85 wins. Same goes for Carlos Beltran, whose tenure with the club is tenuous at best these days. The duo might do enough to lift the Mets, but there are no guarantees yet.
David Wright, Ike Davis, and Johan Santana would be welcome talent injections, but remain unknown quantities at this point. Will Wright return from the disabled list without his strike outs? Can Davis rediscover his hot start rather than regress to his career projections? Could Santana return in time to offer more than the one month of effective pitching Pedro Martinez delivered in September 2007?
No idea. And you can't stake a playoff chase on maybes.
So it makes sense that the Wilpons would remain flexible about enabling Alderson to spend should things break right. In the book Baseball Beyond the Numbers, Nate Silver observed that the marginal revenue from a win doesn't really outweigh the cost of a win until you get above 85 victories. That means if you need to spend money to make money, then you shouldn't spend any money until you're fairly confident you can accrue 85 wins or better. There's some dispute on whether tanking it if you can't reach 85 wins is wise, but it would take a full-on fire sale to send the Mets into a death spiral anyway.
But if spending is wise, where do you spend it? If you think paying the ransom in prospects to rent a Prince Fielder's services is wise, you are likely Omar Minaya and still fired. Wright and Davis returning would make Turner expendable if Murphy resumes regular duty at second base, but what would he fetch in a trade? Would you be OK endangering the precarious state of the rotation if Alderson could sell high on Chris Capuano?
There's a lot of questions in this post, and that's the point. Signing Reyes maintains the status quo in the short term, which may or may not be good enough to flirt with a Wild Card chase. After that, either a confluence of rebounds by Wright, Davis, and Santana or a clever trade or acquisition by Alderson can push the team further along. Resolving the Reyes situation will clarify that distinction, but it does nothing to resolve it -- especially since no one's looking for the Mets to concede what few resources are still at their disposal to hamper their long-term viability.
It's officially the summer, and the Mets are on the cusp of playing meaningful baseball for a good chunk of it. If they can hang on long enough, it could produce unforeseen revenue that's desperately needed by ownership. There's allegedly money and players to make things happen on the personnel front at that point, even in a short-term capacity.
But when does it become worth it to even conservatively gamble on 2011? Resigning Reyes can't answer that question.
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2011 is, was, and always shall be a gap year
It would be unbelievably shortsighted to make any deal at all with a 2011 playoff run in mind. Every move should be made with 2012 and future seasons in mind. To me, that means trying to sell high on any current player who isn’t part of the long-term plan — obviously Beltran, but also role-players from Turner to Tejada and pitchers like Pelfrey and Capuano, if the right deals come along.
The Mets are in a great position to be selling very useful players at the deadline and getting a haul of real young talent back in return. Why would you want to compromise that by hanging on to the delusional pipe dream that this 2011 team is a potential postseason contender?
by anonymous on Jun 21, 2011 3:07 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
This.
Completely agree. It would be like going all in with pocket 7’s.
"Good hitter. Shitty team -- good hitter."
by Dandy Salderson on Jun 21, 2011 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Rec'd
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
What's
wrong with going all in on pocket 7’s i do it all the time.
by bigbluefan1985 on Jun 21, 2011 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Going all in on pocket anything is just good poker
It chases the players before the flop, and you increase your odds of winning the hand.
I think the main point is what to do if we do happen to find ourselves in contention
If this team goes on a run and then gets Wright Davis and Santana back, I think we would have to hold on to Capuano/Beltran/Turner/Pelfrey. There’s no guarantee anything we get back will ever help us and if we have a shot at making the playoffs without sacrificing the pieces we already have in place for the future we have to take it. I wouldn’t trade any real prospects to get anyone for the run but I would have no problem holding onto Beltran IF, and that’s a giant if, we happen to be reasonably in contention come the deadline.
I rec'd this
unrec’d this and rec’d it again, just so I could feel like I rec’d this more than normal.
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on Jun 21, 2011 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
sign Reyes first and foremost
But, in order to get to the playoffs we need to:
-Get Wright, Ike and Johan back. If Wright isn’t able to come back soon, bring up Lutz because we need power.
-Keep Cap, trade Pelfrey and some combination of these AAAA/bench guys we have doing well (Satin, Fisher, Evans, Turner, etc…) in deals to help the bullpen, soon. Pelfrey can’t be traded until Johan is back healthy of course.
-Keep mixing it up in LF between Hairston, Duda and Bay. If none of them take over (c’mon Duda!), and Kirk is healthy, bring him up for CF/LF with Pagan.
-Quit using Willie Harris so god damn much.
That is kind of it. Our SP is good and pitching at a level it can maintain, with Pelfrey my biggest concern to start sucking for no reason and Cap my biggest concern to suddenly get hurt. Our offense has been good but could use the HR power Ike and Dubs offer to be better, and to move their replacements to the bench and make our bench better. And our bullpen has been confusedly managed and too inconsistent, or just too consistently ineffective. I think if we replaced Acosta and Byrdak with 2 reliable arms (Bell and ..), so that Izzy, Parnell and Beato took on roles in the 6th/7th innings and less often, then our bullpen could be above average. I think Parnell needs more regular work, whereas Beato and Izzy benefit from less regular work.
With our SP and offense, and an improved bullpen, I think we would be fighting for the playoffs down to the wire without giving up any of the future.
I LIKE IKE!
agreed
they are not signing Reyes so they must decide whether to trade or let him walk. Beltran cannot be let go for absolutely nothing. It was ridiculous to negotiate this no compensation clause into the contract. Didn’t they give him enough money? And if you can trade Frankie, you do. Even if you pay a little. You still come out ahead financially next year than you would if you were stuck with him. That’s the way you run a team. This team is not going anywhere even if they give the illusion of staying close. Entertaining? Somewhat. But let’s be smart about the future.
I guess I'm one of the only ones who think this
But I think the Mets are going to figure out a way to keep Jose.
There’s no reason not to, especially if this is what you’re going to get for the next 3-4 years.
"Lopez wants it away, and it's hit deep to left center, Andruw Jones on the run, this one has a chance... home run!, Mike Piazza!, and the Mets lead 3 to 2!"
"They are not signing Reyes"
Link?
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2011 Mets- Rock bottom: We haven't reached it yet
Fred Wilpon, is that you?
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
Uhh
Sitebot facepalm of the week maybe? I believe they will sign Reyes we have no proof to the contrary.
by bigbluefan1985 on Jun 21, 2011 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Meant
in reply to jdon’s they are not signing Reyes comment.
by bigbluefan1985 on Jun 21, 2011 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Disagreed.
They ARE signing Reyes.
There. How do you like them apples?
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
Follow me on Twitter: @_mistermet
by Steve Schreiber on Jun 21, 2011 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
FACTZ
"You can spend minutes, hours, days weeks or even months overanalyzing a situation; trying to put the pieces together, justifying what would’ve, could’ve happened – or you can just leave the pieces on the floor and move the **** on."
-Tupac Amaru Shakur
by NetsMets4Life on Jun 21, 2011 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't care at all about Reyes re 2011
I care about him being a Met for life. It would be very difficult to replace what he will bring (barring injury, to which he’s no more prone than the average player) to our hopefully much improved 2012 through 20-late teens teams. And anyway, he just needs to be a Met. Now and forever.
Not sure what there is to debate
The Mets aren’t a playoff team this year. To even be in the conversation, they would have to add a piece or two this year. We KNOW they will not be adding contracts for a playoff push this season. So put the playoff talks to rest. I’m all for the Mets playing well and making a miracle run, but there is no way management adds to the roster to make that happen. If we do it, we do it as we are currently constructed.
As for trading Reyes, I’m not sure what the point is. Even if believe that the Mets won’t be able to keep him next year, they will still get the first round compensation picks when he signs with another team.. No one is going to give the Mets top prospects for two months of Jose Reyes . Great as he has been, he is still just a rental for another team. I’d rather have two first round draft picks over a weak trade any day of the week.
"I only wanted a few things out of life -- a wife, children, to play baseball and to hunt deer." - Turk Wendell
But but but
Jeffy said he can get whoever!!! And you know what Jeffy says is gold
by SFloridaMetsFan on Jun 21, 2011 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
We already have a whoever
His name is Nick Whoever.
thats gold jerry!!thats gold!!
"it's not easy being green"-kermit the frog
"we the mets are an improved ball club, now we lose in extra innings"-casy stengal
i cant spell a nosebleed
he's gone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!OLIE PEREZ IS GONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by rexthejet on Jun 21, 2011 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And also
Naturally, this leads into the obvious conversation about why the Mets haven’t signed Reyes to the longest possible, most reasonable contract extension ever awarded to a human being. Even with Martin including the disclaimer about Alderson lacking the carte blanche previously at Omar Minaya’s disposal, you thought it. You thought, “Just spend the money on Reyes, dammit.”
Reyes already told the Mets that he will not negotiate and in-season extension. That pretty much means he’s going to test free agency.
"I only wanted a few things out of life -- a wife, children, to play baseball and to hunt deer." - Turk Wendell
Or it could mean that he doesn't want to have negotiations hanging over his head
while he’s playing and that he wants to discuss it after the season’s finished, when he can concentrate solely on that and so it doesn’t disrupt the way he’s currently playing.
But you know…to-MAY-to, to-MAH-to.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
Follow me on Twitter: @_mistermet
by Steve Schreiber on Jun 21, 2011 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
This.
It’s pretty common for pending FAs to cut off negotiations once the season starts. Pujols did it, too, and yet we’re not subjected to an endless stream of stories about how he’s going to leave St. Louis.
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on Jun 22, 2011 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Reyes and his agents have officially refused to negotiate an in-season extension
So if the Mets do end up letting him walk, why not take the $20 million or so it would have cost and throw it at the Rays and Marlins scouting and development staffs? I’m willing to bet that would be a better way to spend the money than even Reyes.
Didn't Sandy bring in a whole new staff when he was hired?
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2011 Mets- Rock bottom: We haven't reached it yet
Are they as good as the Florida guys?
We’ve seen them churn out stars year in and year out for a long time. I’d love to have that kind of engine here with the Mets.
He's stated his willingness to take a hometown discount before.
And once again today, he said he’d like to be a Met for life.
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on Jun 22, 2011 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions
That Statenment by Jeffy
Brought to you by the Law Offices of Lionel P. Hutz.
It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.
Hey MTC, how's the Dark Continent treating you?
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
Not too badly
In town for meetings. Back to the land of no electricity in a week. I did find cell phone service in my village though, if I tie my cell phone to a 25 foot bamboo pole and point it skyward while sending texts. This was a major feat of technology.
It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.
by MookieTheCat on Jun 22, 2011 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions

































